When I came of driving age in the early nineties, car dealerships dotted the landscape and seemed to occupy almost every street corner. A tire-kicking perusal would typically result in a friendly visit with a knowledgeable salesman, many of whom were somewhat rough edged and worldly-wise, smoked, knew how to laugh, and knew how to spin a good story. They were typically sharp-witted, knew how to read people, and would occasionally shoot the breeze with enjoyable car talk, even if they knew a sale wouldn’t result. They usually weren’t the slick crooks of Hollywood yore who lied through their waxed moustaches (though a number of salesmen wore them).
From the CC archives
On a nearby lot sat a small office occupied by a mustachioed owner/salesperson. His name was Dick (a nickname that presumably had no anatomical connotations when the it was given or was given at a time when not every English word had such a connotation; perhaps an older commenter can clarify this for me). He was a large, friendly bear of a man who had a good repertoire of friendly greetings and stories. He had no interest in watching cars grow stale on his lot and priced them just above wholesale. “Wee-eell, have I got a deal for you!” he’d typically say warmly before he guided potential buyers to a vehicle on the lot.
When I visited his lot he took a liking to me and offered me a job: I would come over a couple of times a week, wash cars, help transport new acquisitions to his lot (usually from the Chrysler dealership a half hour away) and do whatever other lot chores needed doing. At the end of the workday he would hand me a few cash dollars of amounts that varied depending on his mood or sales action that day.
Over the next couple of years, Dick showed me the basics of selling a car, how to approach a customer, how not to scare them off, how to pique their interest. One trick he employed was to walk a customer past a more expensive vehicle and then tell them “No, that’s too much money” when they showed interest in it. This would usually cause the buyer to stop the proceedings and ask for more details, often resulting in a purchase.
His excellent skills as a salesman caused him to be a target for a local Amway salesman who desired to make him a piece on limestone in his pyramid. Dick was relatively patient with him until one day, the associate played the old trick of pretending to drop a large Amway royalty check on the office floor. Dick, of course, was meant to see the check, be amazed at its size, and allow himself to be recruited. Instead, Dick physically pushed him out of the office into the lot, crumpled the check and threw it at him, telling him firmly “I don’t want to see you around here again.” Important lesson: never kid a kidder.
Under Dick’s tutelage, I decided to try my hand at curbing vehicles myself. He would occasionally inform me of good local deals on used cars or swing deals for me at his suppliers, usually fresh trade-ins in which he wasn’t interested and which the dealer wanted to move. One of the first of these vehicles was a 1982 Honda Prelude with a sunroof, a manual tranny, and 150,000 kilometers. The dealer only wanted $1500 for it, and the only fly in the ointment was a large scratch on the side; however, after I purchased the vehicle, I found an approved insurance claim that covered the repainting. I flipped it and made a few hundred bucks. I wanted more of this.
CC archives
I learned from Dick how to read body language, which spouse to sell to, how to develop a friendly camaraderie with the buyer. I learned the importance of being knowledgeable about the car you’re selling, showing concern with safety and reliability concerns, and being as honest as possible without shooting down the vehicle and killing the sale.
This was a small town, and I didn’t want to make enemies. Unfortunately, at the local KAL Tire, I once bumped into a leather-clad biker to whom I had sold a 1972 Dodge truck weeks earlier. He glared at me with arms crossed. I greeted him, and stupidly asked about the truck. “You shouldn’t be selling sh** like that”, he responded. “It even has the wrong f***ing carburator on it.” Not knowing how to respond to this, I turned and walked away ashamed.
I was stung by this. As I was entering a different phase of life anyhow, I sold the 1973 Mercedes Diesel I was trying to flip at cost and exited the curbing world.
Since then, I’ve purchased cars to drive rather than flip. I’ve even found some gems at car dealers though the years, becoming acquainted with salespeople. However, I’ve found through the years that the old-guard types of salespeople, the skilled, knowledgeable and savvy ones, were slowly disappearing and being replaced by slick-looking young people who have little knowledge of vehicles. Though they still exist, they’re getting harder to find.
I stopped at a used-car dealer in Red Deer Alberta because a 2011 Ford Escape caught my eye. I went into the office and inquired about it. Specifically, I wanted to know the price, did it have the V6, and how many kilometers? Instead of answering, the twenty-something salesman, who wore a substantial underbite and reminded me of Adam Sandler in The Waterboy, offered me a chair. He shoved a piece of paper towards me, on which I was supposed to fill out my contact information and desired vehicle information: what body style do I want? What color? How many seats? Price range?
Without filling it out, I shoved it back across the desk and repeated my questions about the Escape. He responded that he was trying to help me “get into a vehicle” based on what I wanted. I repeated my questions about the Escape in a more irritated manner. Instead of answering, he leaned back in his chair and asked “What do you want anyway? Why are you here?”, prompting me stand up in disgust and prepare to leave, causing him to blurt out that they were asking $15000 for the Escape (a ridiculously high price, no matter how optioned). I continued my journey out the door, never to return.
Apparently, lousy salesmanship is not limited to small corner lots.
A nearby new car dealership offered a used Escape in which I was interested. I asked the young male salesperson if it had the 2.0 engine. He asked another salesperson, who replied that yes, it has the 2.0; it’s an EcoBoost! A drive to the dealer showed me that no, the Escape contained the 1.6 engine. “I’m so sorry sir, can I show you a Fusion? It’s the best-selling car in North America and has the engine you want!”
“Best-selling car in North America? No, it’s not.” I replied.
“I can show you the stats!” He challenged.
Maybe I should have taken the young numbskull up on this, but what good would it do? As I exited I heard another apology through the closing door.
Down the street, I saw a nice, clean used Toyota Matrix AWD on the lot at the Toyota dealership. I informed the young salesman that I have cash, know what the car is worth, and would like him to speak with his manager and get the best cash price for me. He returned twenty minutes later with a “great payment plan” for me, amounting to full asking price over several years, about 15 percent above market price. As I left, the manager stopped me, wondering why I wasn’t interested is this great deal.
“I’m going elsewhere to look at a Matrix.”
“Why not just save yourself the trip and buy this one?”
Despite his charming effort to close the deal with me, I left without the Matrix. At a subsequent dealer visit, I specifically asked if I could please speak to an older salesperson.
More recently, my mother set out to make her first new car purchase ever. Her heart was set on a new Buick Encore GX. (I quite liked it myself, so there!) We were assigned an extremely nervous young saleswoman who had absolutely no clue about the material she was selling. Every question my mother had (e.g. does the vehicle have good consumer reviews, is it a first-year design, it is reliable) was met with lengthy, nervous responses about how great this dealership is and how they would “only ever sell good cars”. I got the feeling that if I asked her if the Buick was an electric vehicle, she would look at me like a deer in the headlights.
This, along with her obnoxious attempts at jokes and conversation was excruciating and I’m sure she could sense my annoyance. I so desired a checkered-jacketed, cowboy-booted, smoking salesman of the past to enter the office to confidently stroll in and replace her as our salesperson. We completed the deal anyhow, my mother is thrilled with her Encore GX, and everyone’s happy. However, I came away wishing that the sales experience, which can be an important part of ownership and long-term impressions, could have been better.
Why does good car salesmanship appear to be a dying skill? Do buyers respond to this new generation of what seems to be vehicularly-illiterate, socially awkward order-takers?
The advent of online shopping has definitely changed things. As buyers typically find a desired vehicle on the Internet rather than from a trip to the dealer, they don’t require a knowledgeable salesperson guiding them into a suitable vehicle. In fact, many car shoppers don’t like the dealership process at all, negotiating, travelling from dealer to dealer; instead preferring to perform the entire process online. As it turns out, car buyers are often just fine with skipping the entire experience of test driving, kicking at tires, poking the dashboard materials with their fingers, and “popping the hood”. No salesman required.
Perhaps the decline may be attributed to lousy wages. GlassDoor says that the national average salary for New Car Sales Manager is $65,710 per year in Canada, while the number is $55,608 for Used Car Sales. Why would a skilled, gifted salesperson go into the car market when they can make a killing in almost any other industry? It’s true that good car salesman can still make good money. An uncle of mine, a sales manager at a Lexus dealership, and makes it clear to me that he makes far more than a someone selling Honda Civics. However, it seems that the skilled salespeople are now going into high-level real estate, pharmaceuticals, enterprise software, finance, consulting, and big public accounts (transportation, energy, social services, etc.) that can result in multi-million dollar deals.
It also doesn’t help that the term “car salesman” has become somewhat of a pejorative term, which could dissuade talented people from joining the profession. In fact, a Gallup poll showed that the American public considered “car salesman” to be among the least-trustworthy professions (along with member of Congress). Who wants to tell his friends and family that he’s decided to become a car salesman? And for a people-oriented line of work, dealers appear to be completely missing the level of trust people have in them. Research shows that “nearly 70 percent of dealers said their customers have a high level of trust in their salespeople. That is a huge disconnect from the December 2016 Gallup poll that showed just 9 percent of consumers have a high level of trust in car salespeople.” The result is that the profession does not attract the best and the brightest.
It’s still possible that car salesmanship isn’t a dying profession, but simply an evolving one. As cars grow more reliable, less knowledge of moving bits is required. Today, a successful salesman is online savvy and relational, networking with clients. Instead of descending like a vulture on every poor soul who enters the lot, he builds a relationship with buyers, who will return in a few years for another vehicle. A kindly Toyota salesman recently told me that most of his sales are from repeat buyers and that his career couldn’t survive without them. He says it took him well over a decade to build his buyer network, and he encourages the younger salespeople to do the same or plan on exiting the field. Here’s hoping that this damaged profession isn’t headed for the scrap auction.
This was an interesting read. I started paying attention to car sales in 1972 when I was 13 years old and following my mother in her first all-by-herself new car purchase. I remember that the quality of salesmen varied widely, and there were some first-rate pros among them.
I still remember Shorty Weber at Collins Oldsmobile in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Shorty walked with a pronounced limp, likely a polio survivor. But he guided my mother through the process like a boss, listened to what she wanted and spent lots of time talking her through the process. Even though the Cutlass Supreme Mom was looking at was a hugely popular car, he did not assume a take-it-or-leave it attitude, but worked hard to find what she wanted when inventories were thin. He sent birthday and Christmas cards to her for years after that single sale. We went back to him first 2 years later, but inventory was even thinner late in the model year and he had nothing available.
Then there were the guys who talked a good game but who proved that real customer service was a foreign concept – not honoring deals that had been made, be they on handshakes or on paper with signatures. I have gotten a good education from some car salesmen.
You are right that sales is the one place where a person with really good people skills can make a lot of money. I have a brother who has been very successful in medical equipment sales, and he is one of those guys everyone loves being around and who loves being around everyone (and even if he doesn’t, you would never know it). Car lots are not rewarding places for really good sales people.
“Loves being around” reminds me… I’ve been reading Pat Foster’s book on the Metropolitan. There are many pictures of James Watson, who was in charge of selling the Met. In every picture, Watson is smiling, and all the people around him are looking directly at him and smiling in genuine joy. He clearly created a measurable Smile Field wherever he went.
I think the salient point here is that there are unfortunately fewer industries nowadays in which good salesmanship (by that I mean honest, knowledgeable and engaged) brings the level of reward that it may have in the past. I grew up around it. My father was briefly in car sales after the Marines and prior to going into Insurance, and his good friend owned our local Chrysler dealership. For both Dad and Jack relationships and community-mindedness were paramount, and they both had great success over long careers. When I eventually came into the insurance industry in the 90’s there had already been a shift in what I came to perceive as the quality of the sales force at large. I ultimately chose a path in service and management, feeling that I could do more good focusing my skills and energies toward keeping relationships with clients mutually beneficial rather than trying to fast-track clients into a shifting sea of uncertainty in a tough marketplace and hoping things would go well enough for them to stay with us. There’ve been pros and cons to this choice, but I can sleep at night and my bills are paid. Over nearly 30 years in my industry I’ve watched the quality of the average salesperson diminish (in my opinion) exponentially each decade. Ironically, the two sales agents in my firm that I have the most respect for are both former car salesmen.
The last vehicle purchase I made was at the beginning of the pandemic. A used Kia Soul from Hertz that I had the relative good fortune to buy when pricing was still reasonably sane, through a veteran salesperson who intimated that he was on the cusp of retirement. He was a pleasure to deal with, was genuinely interested in being sure we were pleased with the purchase, and when I noted that a seatback map pocket was torn, which was the only perceptible flaw in the low mileage car, he took the car home the night before delivery and his wife expertly sewed it up. I would have been very pleased to have referred him business from friends or clients, but his dealership closed during the Hertz shakeup and I’m fairly certain that he did retire last year. Unfortunately my experience with the Finance Manager, a rather smarmy guy in his mid thirties, was another story, as he was representative of exactly the type that we all resent having to deal with. Good salesmanship is an art, and when it’s practiced properly it results in rewards for both the salesperson and the customer. Unfortunately the general attitude seems to be that the internet has rendered it a dying art with no place in today’s world. I don’t subscribe to that opinion, but I can understand why so many do.
The other difference that comes to mind, is that most people who bought new cars did so every 2-4 years, and in a smaller community a good salesman would cultivate a relationship that would last years and would be good for multiple sales. There was a Chry-Ply dealer in Indianapolis who was part of a big Catholic family and lots and lots of people bought cars there, not because they wanted a Chrysler or a Plymouth, but because they knew the family and appreciated the support the family had given to local churches, schools and such.
Nowadays, a new car lasts years and years, and the odds of a salesman ever seeing any given buyer ever again are slim, especially in larger cities.
I had never considered this aspect of it and I think you are 100% on the money Jim. My wife’s Camry is going to turn 10 years old and we have no plans to replace it in the next 5 years. Between that, and tighter margins on a lot of new cars (COVID pricing excepted), more and more dealerships end up with younger, less knowledgeable, lower paid salespeople. Perhaps a used car lot in a smaller town might still have more of that “old school” effect in play.
Six years ago, I was cross-shopping Subies and Volkswagens – just about the time of the great TDI emissions coverup scandal. I was looking to replace a station wagon with a station wagon and wanted a competitive price on a Golf, and was immediately struck by the inertness of the flock of salesmen at the VW dealership in Ramsey, NJ.
I had the Black Book numbers and was ready to buy all cash and they wouldn’t move the Tiguans to get to the hidden gas Golf/Jetta wagons for a test drive. Lumps, all of them.
VW salesmen are as predatory as any I’ve ever encountered in 30 years of car shopping. I refuse to drive onto their lot. They use all the old, slimy tricks of the trade, like taking your car registration to copy it at the beginning of the negotiations and then ‘losing’ it.
[Pictured] One of my favorites from MAD:
Best celebration of used car culture–the movie “Used Cars” (1980).
It’s interesting to go on YouTube and watch the car sales training films from the 1950s. While certain eternal techniques of salesmanship remain, a lot of the charisma, human interest, and enthusiasm for the product are no longer what they were.
And the PROSPECTS are not what they were either. When in sales one must deal with that broad spectrum of humanity known as “the public”. I’ve noticed a decline in sense of humor, communication skills, attention span, common things we can both relate to, and general “normalcy”.
Even the mafia can’t find good people. It’s hard to be a mob soldier when you’re “woke” and record everything on your phone.
As society “dumbs down”, that can work for me because then I become smarter by comparison!
Having done some time in the world of car sales, my observations are that at the
right dealership you can make excellent money, and that you will see the myriad depths
of human depravity in complete clarity.
My neighbor sells used cars and my GF has bought two good vehicles from him. He had a low mileage Buick Encore that was still under factory warranty that I nearly bought. It was before the use car price bubble blew up so my trade in was too low to make it work for me.
This was a very interesting piece, thank you for writing it. I have been around cars most of my adult life, but never really earned a living in the field. I worked at a Chrysler dealership as the lot attendant out of high school in 1982 for about 15 months and interacted extensively with salesmen and other dealership denizens. I encountered many of the hardboiled types characterized here, but also some of a newer breed. Even then, they usually knew very little about the product they were selling, from a technical perspective, anyway.
I was also sent to dealerships around Alberta to pick up or deliver cars, as well as around Calgary where I dealt with wholesale buyers of my dealership’s trade ins. It was a learning experience, and our sales manager was definitely the old school type, not quite stereotypical but very close.
Several years after this, I took to curbing cars as a means of earning income while I went to school. I bought low-end, workingman cars from public auctions and resold them. I had very little money available to risk, so I had to be pretty good at buying, as I could not afford any losses and I needed to sell them pretty quickly. I did this for a couple of years and quite successfully – also selling cars honestly, but I chose to focus on cars where the buyers had low or reasonable expectations. This controlled my financial risk and made for an easier and less demanding sales process. I dealt with hundreds of people and I believe that what I learned through this experience helped me in my later dealings with clients in a far more sophisticated professional sales environment.
As a consumer, I have bought about 20 new vehicles in 30 years. I am generally fully informed about what I want prior to purchase and I rely on salespeople for nothing, other than ordering the car or filling out paperwork. I immediately tell them not to add any crap like appearance protection packages or pre-paid maintenance (I tell them I don’t pay my utility bills in advance, so why should car maintenance be any different). They don’t like it but get the picture quick.
Coincidentally, at dinner the other night, I talked about the sales experience these days at dealerships with a friend of mine – he’d been out that day looking at very high end SUV’s and was complaining. This fellow curbed cars with me in the 80’s – we partnered on some and were friends well before this and remain so today. He actually sold the cheapest car I ever bought – a 1971 Ford Galaxy I think it was for $35+buyers fee, sold 4 days later for $450. He is now wealthy and can and does buy any car he wants, and he changes them on a whim. We both concluded that our worst experiences have been at high end stores – he was at a BMW and a Porsche dealer that day and was treated horribly, they wouldn’t let him test drive anything – even though he’s a repeat customer at both places. The Range Rover dealer was a bit better, but he was disgusted there as well, adding that the sales people also knew nothing about the cars. He is an enthusiast so he really knows the details of what he is looking at.
My absolute worst sales experiences were at two different Bentley and Ferrari/Alfa dealers. They almost treated me with contempt and disdain, and the Bentley place was a particular disgrace, with the sales guy knowing next to nothing about the cars or even their inventory or expected deliveries. I have heard good reports of sales experiences from more mass-market dealers, particularly Kia, so who knows what the problem is. A good friend of mine is the General Sales Manager of a local Mercedes store, and I buy through him – this mercifully takes me out of the typical sales process these days.
I think the issue may be that people are taught to sell, but taught nothing about the product – they could be selling any other commoditized item and apply the same interchangeable, hackneyed approach. It just so happens they are selling cars that day, not something else.
Having worked in sales at a European luxury brand in the past, one of the
reasons for the issues you have experienced is the desire to lower the
commissions received by the staff.
At that time, about seven years ago, at that dealership ,a decent sales person
made over six figures. Long term successful ones were closer to 300k. Guys
who had been in the business for a couple of decades complained that it was
tougher to make a living now (2014) than it had been in the eighties.
From a corporate level, it makes sense (theoretically) to control the cost
of compensation, but the drawback is that they get lower quality staff.
For a product that has a vast number of options and complexities, it takes
a motivated and perceptive person to acquire, comprehend and translate that
information to the client.
My theory is that when you have a situation when the salesperson cannot
afford the consumer product, you are unlikely to attract competent staff.
One biggest advantage of being deaf, the communication between me and the hearing salesperson consisted of writing back and forth on notepad and pen (I have yet to meet a salesperson who was fluent in sign language). With that, they couldn’t blather on and on about the special deals or verbally pushed me around.
My close friend who’s hearing and fluent in sign language was looking into leasing a brand-new 2002 VW Jetta. We set on what she wanted from the deal. The advantage of sign language was that we could discuss openly without anyone eavesdropping and adjusting their offers accordingly. Three salespeople of ascending seniority and stubbornness gave up trying to convince us to accept their more expensive deals. Finally, the general manager intervened and quickly accepted her offer after five—yes, five—hours of fruitless negotiations. We drove off with four-year lease, zero deposit, 12,500 miles/year, and $305 per month.
Just about every car salesmen I have dealt with was more than likely flipping burgers at McDonalds the previous week.
I have seen the good and the bad of car sales. The last guy I dealt with at a Chrysler dealer, and I, built a good friendly relationship over years, and when I bumped in to him at an import dealer when my son was buying there, I immediately wished I had known he had moved so we could have bought from him.
I actually bought a new car from a dealer where my then neighbour worked as a salesman. When he saw me, he offered to do the deal for me, got me a good price and fair value on my trade in, and I was happy. I knew it could have blown up for both of us, but it didn’t.
I’ve seen the slime balls who try to upsell you on the vinyl roof they forgot was already on the car, or the inevitable floor mat upgrade / paint protector package / tinted window great deal etc. All those people want to do is sell you one car, and never see you again.
Great tribute to the dying breed of savvy car salesman. This is probably the first ode to such types that I’ve ever read, and it was very well written. I loved the portrait of Dick, who seems like he was a really good guy.
Being a car salesman is definitely not for everyone, and it requires a certain personality, good people skills, and the ability to pick up on a lot of cues, a knack for human psychology, too. I had a friend that did it right after college (his father owned a Dodge dealership), and he hated it. He felt like he was constantly trying to pressure people into something they didn’t need, and it felt very fake and forced to him. He got out after a couple of years.
I think that a lot of people with the soft-skills necessary to thrive in a career like car salesmanship have turned to other means to make a living. Used cars last longer, too, than in the past, and most people (myself included) cut out markup and the hard-sell by using Craigslist. I’ve bought every car (except my first, which my parents paid for) on Craigslist.
I had a friend who got out of insurance sales for the same reason you mentioned above. It felt forced to him, phoney, and getting people to spend money he knew they didn’t need to.
But does it include the Tru-coat?
Columbo meets cars salesman.
Interesting article and experiences.
In recent decades, I’ve only shopped for new cars about once every 8-10 years, but I’ve found that a combination of online and in-person shopping can make the process much less frustrating (for the buyer, anyway). I can see, though, how doing so has likely changed the car-sales business. For the past few times I visited dealerships, I’ve had hardly any technical questions for the sales staff — I’d done every bit of research ahead of time.
I did find it amusing, though, that when I last bough a new car (a Kia, in 2018), I visited two Kia dealers in person, and had completely different experiences. One was slimy and was asking way too much for the car in which I was interested – the other was very professional, gave me a good deal, and was the best car-dealership experience I’ve ever had. From what I understand, Kia dealers don’t have a great reputation; I bet their sales would increase a lot if more of them were like the dealer I bought our minivan from.
Since we’re adding video clips . . .
I’m not a great negotiator and prefer to avoid conflict so I’m happy to say that I’ve had a good experience with the last five or six non-private-party cars we’ve bought, three new from dealer, one new from broker, and two used (one from a Toyota dealership and one from a used lot). Fair prices and adequate to very good product knowledge. The most recent purchase was a Ford Transit where we worked directly with the commercial sales manager. She was excellent, which was really driven home after I started reading other peoples’ experiences with their local dealers on the Ford Transit Facebook page and Internet forum. In fact I can think of only two slightly negative experiences I’ve had and both were in the eighties at large domestic stores. Thanks LOSTDOG for the insights and anecdotes.
I don’t think that technical knowlege of the car is important. It may be to those who read this forum, but not to the average consumer. Their deisres are ; color, can I pair my phone, and how much is the monthly nut.
The sales people are trained on the features of the car most asked about by the average customer. If you are at Nissan or Mitsubishi store, you be trained on how to sell a payment. Lexus and Infiniti: on how to deal with the upper middle class. Just like in insurance, financial planning, and other commission sales to the public auto sales training is mostly on selling.
I lease 3 new cars a year. I deal with the general manager. The sales person starts the paper work, ushers the new car through prep, and changes the plate. That’s it They don’t know what I paid,or what my trade in was, because they don’t need to know. The salesman has no control over the price.
My goal is to pay 1% of the MRSP plus all fees and taxes per month. Lately, I have achieved that goal. In late September I traded in a car I had leased for 11 months. I had paid only the first payment at inception. They gave me $392 per month in apprciation. I paid 1% per month and the car went up 2%.
My sister in law had a 13 month old leased Honda CRV. The dealer called wanted her car and had a new CRV for her. She said she wouldn’t pay any more, he agreed. She went from an EX to an EXL, and they dlivered it.
It is the craziest car market I have ever seen and I am enjoying it.
I dislike dealing with salespeople in general and dealerships in particular. One advantage that I have had for years is: that I don’t care if I get the car at all. I buy the car based only on it’s price, not whether or not I can get the right payment. I already know what I want and how much it should cost, if they can’t give me a fair price I just leave. I never fall in love with anything, there are plenty of cars out there. If it’s not here it’ll be somewhere else. I haven’t bought a brand new car since 2007, when I bought two. I’ve bought several cars from consignment lots, which is nice since there isn’t a salesperson to annoy you and you can check out the car in peace. I’ve bought a lot of cars off of CL, but these have all been low priced hobby cars. I did buy a fairly expensive used car from a new car dealer this Summer. I found it on CL, I had done lot’s of research. I spent some time checking out the car and went for a long test drive, Then I bought it at a fair price. If I’m happy with the deal that I made, I don’t spend any time looking around to see if I could have gotten it cheaper, like those stupid commercials think that I should do.
Agree with everything in this statement. If you do your research before walking onto a dealership, the salesman is simply a necessary evil in the process. And with the advent of the internet, that research is easier than ever before. I know what I want – I know what I want to pay for it – everything else is superfluous nonsense.
When I bought my 2017 Mazda3, it was the first time I had gone to a dealership on my own for a car. All of my others had been private sales.
All I wanted to do was go to a lot, and look at the cars they had to see what I wanted but every single time, some sales person would come out and drag me into their office to fill out that damned piece of paper.
I went from dealership to dealership until l landed on one where people left me alone, until l came to them.
Back when I worked for Streetside Classics, I wasn’t a salesperson but I did help sell a few cars.
Everyone and their dog wanted a Chevelle SS, and no one wanted to pay what we wanted for them. I understand. I would ask them what about the Chevelle did they actually like? Was it the name? The body style? The engine? I would get to understand why they thought they wanted what they wanted and showed them a car that met that as best I could.
If they wanted a Chevelle and wouldn’t budge, we had some lovely non SS models in their price range. If they liked the drivetrain, we had Buick Skylarks and Oldsmobile Cutlass that had similar engines that sounded and drove just as good.
One person wanted a Chevelle SS because of how it sounded. I showed them a butternut yellow 1978 Buick Regal with a rebuilt and built up 350 and they fell in love because it sounded amazing. They drove it off the lot that day and saved about 20K. I still see it around town.
Jon nailed it : “Having done some time in the world of car sales, my observations are that at the right dealership you can make excellent money, and that you will see the myriad depths of human depravity in complete clarity.” .
Plus thank you for the great clips, all of them .
-Nate
Another excellent article, Mr Dog (or LD, perhaps?)
You describe the old tribe precisely, though I’d add that there was a touch more rogue to most of them. I also spent time in the late ’80’s going to the second and less tier yards, often just to try out cars I was curious about. Nearly all twigged pretty quickly I was a non-buyer, but indulged anyway. In fact, as I was often trying out things they couldn’t wait to get rid of (French, Italian, British) they had a sort of fatherly bemusement that I had any interest in these disasters. They’d even look at this skinny, clearly penniless student and say straight out “Mate, FFS, why would you want this shit? Buy the old Holden there, won’t break and you can fix anything on the bastard with a hammer, I’ll even be kind to yer!”
But I also spent a lot of time in these rather scungy places actually buying cheap cars too, as I was the only fool in a large extended family who had any knowledge of, or interest in, cars, and I was touched-up a few times – financially, I hasten to add! Though the actual omnipresent sleaze factor absolutely meant my sisters and female cousins simply would not enter a caryard alone. (Btw, helping the relatives is a thankless task – one sister took years to forgive me for helping her into a Morris Marina, quite rightly I guess, but hell, I was only 15 or 16 at the time! Man, what a shocking cat that was).
Like others here, I think the game has moved on. Cars don’t blow up any more, or have brakes fail, or smoke at 60K miles, or generally have the sort of failures that try to kill you, so a lot of the old mech knowledge is probably not important. It’s the features. You really can do it all online, and plenty now do. My niece, who I helped get a perfectly decent new white car (a Mitsubishi, but I honestly can’t right now recall what!) has ofcourse no problem with the machine, but complains constantly that the phone iApple whatever doesn’t sync with the thingy whatsit dongler, and perhaps given the standard of excellence inherent in every modern car, maybe she’s right to. (I, of course, brush her off and say something like “Yes, yes, but that automatic a/c is just superb”, or just outright say “First-world troubles, huh”, or mostly just “Oh, go away”, but I digress).
One sad thing that remains just as in the old days and is an indictment on the industry: most women absolutely hate dealing with the places, whether as sales or service, I cannot believe that that is still the case in 2021. It is one thing that SHOULD be long gone, and not missed at all.
Never really dealt with a new car salesperson. I just don’t buy new. I have bought a couple of used cars from independent dealers, once the price seemed so low I just wanted to get out before it got raised and the other time the guy wouldn’t budge a dime. But it was a low demand, but special interest car. I would rate both of them ok, not great, but not bad.
On the other hand, at a pair of independent single marque dealers, one Volvo the other Subaru, they were creepy. Both were way overpriced and acted like they were really, really doing me a favor by offering a high mileage, 200-300K car at a low mileage price. Came close to buying at one, but once I said I wanted it the entire demeanor changed, profoundly. No joke, the guy has been working at Trader Joes for several years now.
On that third hand, they’ve all exhibited trust in me. No name, no ID, oh, you want to test drive, here’s the keys. And the two I’ve bought have taken a personal check for 5 figures. Paperwork, but no question about the check.
Finally, people who can sell, can sell. Cars, refrigerators, doughnuts, whatever. It can be an acquired skill, but for some it’s just natural, and they aren’t necessarily out to cheat, steal or whatever, and can even be helpful and fill a need. However not me, I tried selling some lines as a manufacturers rep for a bit and would have starved to death if I’d kept at it.
As a self-professed “car nerd” I always thought about selling cars as a kid- probably just to get a “demo.” 🙂 But I actually never wanted to “sell” anything, thinking it was tough and required a lot of tricks and “word tracks” to learn and practice. That didn’t appeal to me at all but I eventually tried it, and have been selling cars for the last 17 plus years. Once I tried it I found that being a good salesperson really boils down to a few simple things:
LISTEN to what your customer wants/needs and help them get it.
Don’t lie
Don’t be pushy
It’s really that simple. It’s just the Golden Rule, actually. When I am buying a big ticket item that’s how I prefer to be treated. The salesperson that treats me well will earn my business and the business of anyone I know every time. A quick buck should never be the goal. Repeat and referral customers come back because they feel comfortable and respected, and it makes for a good living.
Again, this is a fantastic thread .
Last night one of my 1960’s mates called me, we’re both elderly Conservatives, he’s rich, I’m Blue Collar, both of us are very content with life .
He used to be a big boy (pushing 400 Lbs.) so he drove Lincoln Town Cars for decades, usually on three or four year leases and _always_ with every possible bell, whistle and extended warranty .
He too found that *one* salesman who didn’t give him the jolly jerk off and so went back year after year .
When the Kia cube thing came out his Sweetie test drove one and loved it so he bought her one, again the lease with everything dumped in ~ he’s a computer techie by trade (began at D.E.C. in Boston in 197?) and so loves all that crap I dislike .
He had to drive her Kia once and was hooked ~ even at 435# (he’s working out and eating less now) he easily fits in it and likes how it drives plus the seamless bluetooth etc. crap he so loves that have never given a moments trouble in either car .
The same salesman who sold him her car, took care of him when he rolled up in his pristine black Town Car, those are plentiful but few are as nice as his in salty and wet Boston, Ma. , they did him right, he’s happy and will continue to use that same dealer and salesman until they close up or screw him .
Good to know some are still honest .
Yes, sales men are born, all they can do is train to do better, it’s a natural talent you either are born with or not .
I sold used vehicles for decades and never had a complaint, I don’t think I was a good salesman, I think the clean and ready to go low end units I sold, sold them selves .
-Nate