(originally published in 2007 at ttac.com. First posted here on 10/22/2015)
When I first heard about the Audi “Sudden Unintended Acceleration” segment on CBS’s 60 Minutes in 1986, I knew instantly that they were blowing smoke. Literally.
Some years earlier, I was part of a TV crew shooting an educational program. Legendary race-car driver Parnelli Jones was the guest celebrity one day. The producer offered to take us to lunch in his 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. Three or four of us hopped into the giant back seat. Parnelli took the wheel, and the Caddy owner/producer rode shotgun.
Parnelli fired up the Caddy’s giant V8, dropped it in gear and floored it – with his left foot on the brake. One of the rear wheels lit up in a screeching howl, and the car was soon engulfed in a cloud of acrid smoke. The Caddy didn’t move an inch; obviously. And neither did Parnelli, glancing at the wincing producer with his wicked grin. he probably burned off half the rubber of that tortured tire before he stopped grinning and gunning. I had assumed (wrongly) that race-car drivers grew up eventually.
The experience seared in a lesson in basic automobile physics: brakes are always more powerful than engines, even when they have 500 cubic inches (8.2 liters). Too bad we didn’t have our cameras running; we could have made a graphic rebuttal to 60 Minutes’ fraudulent destruction of Audi.
Let’s set the scene: it’s 1984, and Audi sales had shot up 48 percent on the strength of their new aerodynamic 5000, the latest hot weapon in the perpetually-escalating suburban driveway status war. It was a stunning slick piece, and Audi was on a roll.
Suddenly, the war turned bloody. Moms in runaway Audi 5000’s were mowing down their little kids in the driveway and pinning granny against the far garage wall with the four-ringed front of the Audi.
This had never happened with the Olds Cutlass Supreme Brougham Coupe, the previous “hot” suburban car Mom traded in for her Audi. The German car certainly felt different. Unlike the Olds’ wide push-bar brake pedal – that some Americans still operated with their left feet – the Audi had that weird, small brake pedal, set kinda’ close to the gas pedal.
And these Audis had a mind of their own. No matter how hard Mom pushed on the brake pedal, the Audi kept on charging, right through the garage door with granny on the prow. This despite the fact that the little five-cylinder mill only cranked out 130 horsepower. And the top-notch four-wheel disc brake system probably could generate well over 600 equivalent horsepower.
Apparently, the brakes were failing at exactly the same moment that the gas pedal decided it had a mind of its own. Perfectly plausible, at least to the 60 Minutes crew, the Audi (non)drivers, and much of the media and public.
About as plausible as ignoring the police report of the most dramatic victim on the show, Kristi Bradosky, who ran over her six year old son. That report said “Bradosky’s foot slipped off the brake pedal onto the gas pedal accelerating the auto.” Denial isn’t just a river.
Ed Bradley’s 17 minute “investigative report” aired on November 23, 1986. Between interviews of the teary-eyed “victims” (drivers) of unintended acceleration swearing their feet were on the brake pedal, CBS showed a clip of a driverless Audi lurching forward on its own.
Viewers didn’t get to see the canister of compressed air on the passenger-side floor with a hose running to a hole drilled in the transmission. An “expert” had rigged the Rube Goldberg device to shift the big Audi into drive and, like any automatic-equipped car, move forward (unless the brakes are depressed).
The clip was blatantly deceptive AND totally irrelevant. Nobody claimed driverless Audis were taking off and killing kids and grannies. Mom was always at the wheel, pushing the 5000’s “brake” pedal with all her might.
In 1989, after three years of studying the blatantly obvious, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued their report on Audi’s “sudden unintended acceleration problem.” NHTA’s findings fully exonerated Audi and some other implicated foreign makes”.
The report concluded that the Audi’s pedal placement was different enough from American cars’ normal set-up (closer to each other) to cause some drivers to mistakenly press the gas instead of the brake. 60 Minutes did not retract their piece; they called the NHTSA report “an opinion.”
(Update: Audi (and many others manufacturers) quickly added an automatic transmission interlock, making it impossible to shift into drive or reverse without a foot on the (real) brake.)
A flood of lawsuits was already washing over Audi, not to mention a tsunami of bad publicity. Audi took a questionable stance: they didn’t flat oout blame the drivers for the problem, even after the NHTSA report came out. Hey, the customer’s always right, and we sure wouldn’t want to make our American customers look stupid. Anything but that.
So the German automaker took it on the chin. Audi sales collapsed, from 74k units in 1984 to 12k by 1991. The timing added insult to injury; sales fell exactly during the same years when Lexus arrived to battle for the hearts and wallets of America’s up-scale consumers. Lexus quickly became the latest suburban driveway prestige symbol.
As a final kick to the near-corpse, Audi’s suddenly wanna-be-Lexus drivers launched a class action suit charging lost resale value. No wonder the brand almost abandoned the U.S. in 1993. It’s a killer market.
Update: I hadn’t seen these videos produced by Audi in 1987. They also feature a race car driver, this time Bobby Unser. He also did the same thing, flooring a 5000 Turbo with the brakes applied. And then took the Audi up to high speed and brought it to a quick stop, with the engine still at full throttle (and boost).
Although Audi mostly side-steps the issue of pedal misapplication, at the end they make it quite clear that this is what caused the perceived UA events.
Of course, this lesson in Physics 101 repeated itself 25 years later, when it was Toyota’s turn to suck it up and try to not make its drivers look stupid. But we’ll save that one for another unintended day. One thing is clear: the word “unintended” is the perfect one to use for these events: “I didn’t intend to be pressing the gas pedal with all my might”
A wonderfully prime example of two modern American principles:
1. No matter how stupid an idiot, it is never the customer’s fault. And if it is the customer’s fault, his/her lawyer will make it otherwise.
2. The media is never wrong, biased, or unwilling to admit to error.
These are the moments when I wish we were back in the Thirties. No matter how many other social and economic shortcoming are part of that period. Back then “responsibility” was something more than an odd word in the dictionary.
X2
>>2. The media is never wrong, biased, or unwilling to admit to error.<<
Robert Redford just made a movie exemplifying that about Dan Rather. He even titled the movie “Truth” even though every honest examination found it to be anything but.
Couldn’t agree more.
Right On !!
Kinda like how people will run a light or do some other stupid thing, then get on the cell phone and “report” the other car they almost hit or ran off the road. “This crazy driver tried to kill me!” The 5000 recall did include a shifter/brakepedal interlock which soon became mandatory. People would shift into gear without putting their foot on the brake pedal first. Then panic and miss or hit the wrong pedal. Nobody ever claimed it happened when the car was equipped with a manual transmission. Everything and everybody in the world is the reason something went wrong. I am incapable of causing wrong, it’s everything and everybody around me that makes bad things happen.
I don’t know if the Audi was “drive-by-wire” throttle or not, somehow I suspect not. The Toyota certainly is. So, while I strongly suspect that the problem was the same in both cases, in theory I see the case for a possible defect (albeit a highly unlikely one) with the Toyota being much stronger than with Audi et al.
Remember we are talking about 1986.
The 2004 Camry case did expose a software error, a particularly bone-headed one in embedded programming which violated Toyota’s corporate standards:
http://embeddedgurus.com/state-space/2014/02/are-we-shooting-ourselves-in-the-foot-with-stack-overflow/
This doesn’t necessarily imply it was the cause of all instances, however, lest I Affirm the Consequent (a logical fallacy). Maybe the drivers were still stupid.
Now whether it’s the driver or software, brakes or the ignition switch can stop any berserk engine, but still, drive-by-wire software deserves special scrutiny by QA personnel, on the level of FAA certification.
Neil, that’s typical of the kind of testimony that lawyers for defendants would dig up to bolster their case. I’m in no position to judge it technically, but it’s a classic case of “this might have been able to cause it”, rather than actually prove anything.
A bunch of Camrys that were involved in UA accidents were deeply analyzed by the NHTSA, in terms of their electronics. Nothing. The bottom line is this: there were many theories (tin whiskers, etc…), but no one could ever show to any reasonable degree that any electronic aspect was involved in the Toyota SUA incidents. And of course, the events all dried up, very shortly after the mass hysteria peaked….
To be clear, I meant software, not electronics (hardware). You could have sound electronics but errant software. It’s a common question among insiders: Did hardware or software cause the problem? Many lively debates revolve around this common question, usually resulting in someone getting egg on their face!
But I agree, just because software has defects (as Barr may have found), doesn’t imply the plaintiff has a case. Defects can lie dormant for years, maybe never manifesting in anything. If this prospect doesn’t keep engineers awake at night, it should!
All those large tractor trailers you pass every day have drive by wire throttles, how many fail? thats right NONE.
Fallacy of induction.
The Toyota UA fiasco can be summed up by their response to it—they issued a recall where they trimmed the bottom of the gas pedal off a little bit so that it couldn’t be physically snagged by the carpet or floor mat. My ’06 Tacoma had this recall mod done just before I bought it as a certified used car from a Toyota dealer.
I am not aware of any software changes involved in the recall…
WHAT ME BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS!!!! NO NOT ME.
Typical modern day response. One big reason this country is going down the Krapper
It’s a cultural problem ranging from parents indulging their destructive brats to major corporations (Iacocca’s getting taxpayers to guarantee his loan, & GM’s bailout). The phrase “Take it like a man” is obsolete.
Not only obsolete, but nowadays someone would probably scream it was sexist, and deem the underlying message (be responsible) to be irrelevant on that basis.
A few years ago I witnessed UA; I was going outbound from the city on a highway when suddenly from a grocery store parking lot a Buick came charging across the frontage road, through the ditch, and after catching some impressive air it landed on the highway and to this day I don’t know how the old lady “driving” it managed to stay on the road and not plow into the other ditch- although I’m certain that launch finally dislodged her foot from the gas pedal. She proceeded down the road and I and a couple of other motorists followed, to see what was up. The bumper covers were torn loose and dumping much ditch dirt onto the road, and two tires were flattened from that hard landing. Ultimately she stopped, looking bewildered. I think I witnessed her last drive. I went back to the parking lot and saw where she laid rubber, obviously from standing on the gas pedal instead of the brake when approaching the frontage road.
Now I suppose Buick should be sued.
I recall that Audi disaster and that Toyota debacle really got my blood boiling. Stupid, stupid, stupid “drivers”. They panic. There was a case in Minnesota of a woman driving her car when a pebble somehow lodged in the throttle mechanism, causing it to gradually speed up. Did she turn the ignition off? No. Did she apply the brakes? Not hard enough; rode them until they were useless from fade. Did she put it in neutral? No. She plowed into a husband and wife on a motorcycle, killing the husband and putting the wife through severe trauma. The female judge let the woman driver off completely for as we all know, cars are prescient beings and we aren’t expected to control them; we’re just along for the ride. Grrrrrrrr.
P.S. “Pebbles” wasn’t able to control her vehicle but she was able to whip out her cell phone during the incident to call 911. The dispatcher (incidentally, female) was unable to provide any useful guidance.
Not that I’m mysogenic, but geeeeezzzz.
Also about that time four college girls from- I forget if it was North or South Dakota- were offroading in a Jeep at night when they drove into a lagoon. Did they open any doors and/or windows to get out? No. They all whipped out their cell phones. Of course they and the dog that was with them perished.
Cell phones :/
They are eligible for the Darwin Award contest.
I witnessed something similar when I was in the seminary. I was assigned to a suburban parish of a modern design that had a sacristy with a window looking out on the back parking lot. One Sunday morning we were all in there when all of a sudden we hear a loud, “CLUNK-CRASH” and a golden Buick Lesabre was right up against the window and wall. The old man driving said his leg seized up, pushing the gas and sending the car over the curb, across a bush, and right into the church.
Thank God no one happened to be walking in front of him and the only casualty was that bush. We all hoped that would be his last drive as well…
The other time involved me and a couple other people getting hit by a four wheeler driven by a woman. Only casualty was our spilled beers. Why do people keep on the fun switch when they are going when they shouldn’t be? My first reaction would have been to take my hand off and hit the brake.
I’m saying this tongue in cheek, but the only times I’ve even been in any sort of accident or witnessed any sort of accident involved old people and women. Just saying…
I don’t know about sudden unintended acceleration, but my ex-girlfriend’s ’88 5000 caught fire. Twice.
In the FMEA that’s (truly) known as an “unintended thermal event” !
Fantastic piece that captures so many of the elements that transformed the car market in the 1980s.
When I was a teen in New Orleans, the aerodynamic Audi was the first import to really take the leap and hit the bullseye to win over former domestic drivers. Prior to this car, in NOLA, the Volvos had sold well, but were always perceived as “sensible shoes” and an anti-style statement. Mercedes and BMWs were for the cognoscenti and many people scoffed at the price tags. With this Audi, the price was right, the style was there, the competitive domestic brand offerings weren’t great, so the floodgates opened. These were certainly the “it” car, and I knew plenty of family friends and neighbors who traded in GM cars to get one. It was a death knell for the Detroit style taste that had previously defined car choices for affluent suburbanites.
It is amazing to see how the media can absolutely corrupt an issue. While the people I knew who had these Audis loved them, and never had an issue, the taint from 60 Minutes certainly rubbed off. The image damage was significant, so buyers simply moved on to other makes. Acura and Lexus were certainly huge beneficiaries of that trend, but I think Mercedes also picked up new customers as well. The poor domestics, however, still didn’t have a clue on how to best appeal to the transformed taste, so they couldn’t even gain back turf lost to the Audi.
The fact that 60 Minutes basically got away with the smear was disgraceful. That they tried again with the Chevy trucks was shameful, though at least they were more properly busted with that one. In general though, the sensationalistic press is still alive and well, even after these shady episodes were debunked. The feast for lawyers and the media is huge, so why let truth get in the way? The ultimate irony, of course, is that the car companies, while still deep-pocketed, are no longer the money making machines that they used to be. I wonder when the vultures will turn their attention to the tech companies, which are today’s honey pot with heaps ‘o cash waiting to be syphoned by “victims.”
Lastly, a shout out to the perfect car casting in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. Ferris’s dad, who epitomizes the comfortable businessman from the North Shore Chicago suburbs, drives an Audi 5000. Of course he did–the Audi is absolutely the right car for the spirit of that time and place.
I totally agree with your assessment on both the cars and the media, but I’ve always thought these 80s German imports were cheap looking and ugly. Add to this, back in the 80s one of my uncles did indeed trade in whatever GM personal pseudo luxo-coupe he had for an Audi. It was constantly at the dealer for service, and of course, it was very expensive to fix. Might have been one of the “It” cars of the time, but at least his was a POS.
Every time I seen an Audi, I think of his experience. I know that this is an example of one of those sub-rational biases and not anything near fact, but its interesting how such an experience and its telling can influence perception.
Oh, it wasn’t just his. They were all POS. Handsome and definitely the “it” car of the day, but terrible reliability – really, just astonishingly awful – and breathtakingly expensive to repair. I’d say that Audi would have been in deep trouble even without the CBS hatchet job.
True about Mr. Bueller’s Audi, but somehow I can’t see an agent for Koenig & Strey being caught dead hauling her house-hunting clients around Glencoe and Lake Forest in a mere K-wagon….even if it was a loaded-up T&C……
LOL. Very true! Luckily today those agents have plenty of luxury brand SUVs to choose from…
Bueller’s Day Off was genius on so many levels!
Christine with a K. People love the idea of objects that have it in for us. Used to be trees, but now it’s our machines that are becoming the home of evil spirits. It’s the last repository of paganism. As Neil deGrasse Tyson says, as we learn more, the mystical has to retreat into a smaller and smaller space… a space about the size of an Audi.
It’s absolutely appalling the power the media has with no accountability. It’s not just in cars either. Remember “pink slime”? They can destroy thousands of jobs and not face any consequences. They keep doing it, and thanks to social media it has become even easier to spread misinformation.
That’s odd, how did I get an avatar without signing in? Without ever setting one up?
Maybe you’re on some other WordPress-enabled forum?
Another case of UA…unintended avatar!
“unintended avatar” HA!
I’ll have to remember that one!
Thanks for the post, Rodney!
-Gus
For the Toyota unintended acceleration, I’ve never heard an explanation why the driver never used the neutral position on the transmission. There are several stories of people driving their car for many minutes while being terrified with the car racing out of control. Plenty of time to place the transmission in neutral. There was a California state policeman who drove his car over a 100 mph before crashing. Why didn’t they put the transmission into neutral?
One theory I read: Some of the Toyotas had a “manual shift slot” to the left of the main PRNDL slot. If the shifter somehow got into the manual shift slot (M), moving it up (as you would to shift from D to N) only engages the “+” position. In a panic, the driver didn’t realize the shifter is in the wrong slot. He needed to move the shifter sideways from M to D first, before going up from D to N.
The CHP retiree’s Lexus ES also had keyless start, and he needed to press and hold the START button for several seconds to shut off the engine. Frantically stabbing the button multiple times wouldn’t do it. Toyota has since changed that.
You’d think a retired policeman would know how to drive so as to be in control of his motor vehicle at all times.
Sounds like this sort of thing keeps happening until someone failed to stop it.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/10/toyota-tragedy-saylor-family/
Previous driver survived because they happen to know how to prevent the accident. Maybe we need another definition of accident, because some are easier to prevent and others not.
I have little doubt that the Audi situation stemmed from drivers stepping on the gas when they thought it was the brake. I also believe that this plagued the Audi 5000 as its gas and brake pedals were unusually close together. Although no CC’er would ever confuse the two, we must realize that cars are manufactured and sold to the masses, a good percentage of whom have questionable driving skills. Audi should have recognized that the closeness of the gas and brake would be a problem in the American market, with drivers accustomed to huge, long brake pedals. Audi can’t be let completely off the hook, but the 60 Minutes piece was shameful, suggesting something far more sinister than simple dumb driver error.
Regarding the recent Toyota/Lexus SUA issue, I don’t know what to make of it. With complex electronics now controlling throttle, transmission and brakes, it seems plausible that a perfect storm of electronic failure could cause runaway SUA. Or, it could be as simple as a floor mat jamming into the accelerator. Today’s drivers education courses have to get beyond parallel parking and instruct students what to do if something unforeseen happens. Lots of misery has occurred because of panicked drivers not knowing what to do.
Good last point there. Most people have no idea of things like the emergency/handbrake being separate from the regular brakes, shifting into neutral, the fact that brakes can easily overpower the engine but you have to put some effort into it, or that it can still be steered after losing power but will be difficult. It’s impractical for every driver to be tested on these things on the road, but every driver should know them!
But maybe that’s too much to expect, given that most drivers don’t even know how an unmarked intersection works despite being taught it.
It’s too much to remember for the general public. And despite driving few bigger cars without power steering, it was hard to steer a car without power steering assist anyway. One time my car had alternator failed and the police officer told me it would be hard to steer after pushing me away, but it was really hard even though I know very well. It will be a lot worse for others.
What we need now is the “perfect media storm” of a VW diesel in an SUA situation…..!!
Morley Safer as much as admitted he created this hit piece because he hated Germans in an interview with Automobile Magazine. He was asked about the story and his response was that when he met his wife she was driving a VW; he insisted that she sell it if they were to continue courting. The mainstream media doesn’t have any use for objectivity when they can have agendas instead.
I suppose I should thank Morley. Because of him, I drove a very nice 4000S quattro with one previous owner that dealer maintained it and fitted it with a Concord/ADS sound system. I bought it with 34,000 miles for $4,500. After I drove that car off a cliff inadvertently, I replaced it with a 5-speed 5000S I bought for $3,500. I’d never have been able to afford those cars without Morley’s contempt for honesty.
Did you unintendedly accelerate off a cliff? You’re going to have to fill us in on that one!
It was an act of profound idiocy. I dropped something that rolled under the passenger seat while driving on the interstate. I couldn’t reach it, so I took off my seatbelt and leaned over. My hip hit the steering wheel and I drove through a guard rail off a 36 foot embankment at about 70 mph. I was thrown through the windshield when the car hit a rocky drainage ravine, which was fortunate as the car was completely destroyed. The engine block was broken into three pieces, which nobody had seen before. The driver’s side was pushed in past the centerline of the car, and the roof was lower that the rear seat back. Whatever I had in the trunk was lost to compression. I can’t really blame anything other than the awful judgement I generally used in college.
That’s crazy! Glad to hear you were okay.
Your luck is outstanding.
After modern mobile phones getting bigger screens, it happens more often.
I remember when I first heard about this “unintended acceleration”, or “sudden acceleration”. I was too young to drive at the time, but I knew the story was a load of bullshit. In cars with automatic transmission, there are two pedals, the accelerator to the right, and the brake to the left. Both are generally used with the right foot. If things work like they should, all a driver would need to do is to place his/her right foot on to the brake pedal, almost to the floor, move the gear shift from park to any moving gear, “reverse,” “drive,” or “second,” and “low” gears.
In ’84 I was a not-very-good salesman for a pre-owned import dealership; I only sold one car, a 911 Cabrio, the whole time I worked there and the owner had to close the deal. There was an Audi 5000 on the lot and everyone who drove it complained about the brakes, including the salesmen. It wasn’t “unintended acceleration.” It took a lot of pedal pressure to stop. It was in and out of the service department and was still on the lot when I left. Years later I heard that the brake hoses on the 5000 were too flexible and made the brakes feel spongy. The fix was supposed to be to replace the lines with stiffer hoses. Anybody every hear this? Other than that it was a really nice car, as nice as a Mercedes.
Those cars had a preposterously complex and poorly-designed system of hydraulic power steering fluid piped to pressure accumulators, steering gear, hydraulic brake booster, and who knows how many switches and relays. This was a VERY common complaint. Many customers got to experience it multiple times. Some even got to experience the thrill of underwood fires. Ultimately many thousands of dollars needed to be spent to replace the pump, accumulator, and brake booster. Then the brakes would work well for a time. Then the steering gear would go, and the cycle would start again.
Thanks, Rob. I’ve always wondered about that.
This is a fact. Back in this time period half of the customers walking up to the parts counter were buying liter sized containers of the special fluid that you could only get from VW/Audi. The system failed a lot. Really poor quality parts or design, maybe both.
My grandma drove a 79 Olds Cutlass Supreme 2 doors that she got from her daughter in 1981. She was used to her 77 Nova, so I think the Cutlass was a bit too much for her to handle at first.
One day, as we left a tire shop, she pressed the accelerator instead of the brake and proceeded to put the car in drive. The car did not move, but the wheels spinned furiously and the smoke and smell invaded the car. Thanks God she did not hit the car parked in front.
By 1983, the car needed the 3 speed auto replaced. I could be wrong but I attribute it to that incident, since the car was just 4 years old by that time.
The car shouldn’t go anywhere if his/her foot is on the brake while the gearshift selector is being moved from Park to any moving gear.
I never thought that UA was anything but the result of idiot drivers’ actions. UA never happened without a driver doing SOMETHING. There were few if any electronic controls in 1985 that might have superseded a drivers inputs. It’s true that better training of drivers when in emergency situations needs to be a priority.
I remember that 60 Minutes piece when it first aired. When I saw the “expert” duplicate the unintended excelleration with the aid of tubes and drilled holes I immediately threw the B.S. flag. Then, as now, I have never driven a car where the engine could overpower the brakes.
I believe that in addition to the size and closeness of the brake and gas petals, the petals were on the same plane (at the same height) with each other. Any truth to that?
As I recall, the gas pedal was further to the left than in most cars.
Had a friend who was a GM service manager in the 90’s. He’s get “sudden acceleration” complaints constantly. Why? Because folks would set their cruise control on a smooth, flat road. They’d come to a steep inclined section and be startled when the system would call for the engine revs to increase to maintain speed! Never mind if the trans shifted too!
I’d also like to call attention to Ford column shifted automatics and the poor PARK detent issue. Affected many models from 1957 to 78. Cars with their engines running and in PARK with parking brake not applied/ poorly adjusted/fully applied would slip back into Drive. Many injuries, deaths. Installation of after market detent plates solve the problem now. Combination of weak engineering standards and operational failures. As a driver always do the safe thing. I recall one woman left her child her T-bird with it running and in PARK. She stepped out to bring something in to the house. She shut the door and it jumped into gear, sending the car into a pond or lake. Result was a tragedy. Always turn the engine off when parked, make sure the parking brake works and use it. Never leave a child, passenger , or pet in a running vehicle!
Leaving a car running with the door open or unlocked with nobody in the car is illegal in my state.
What is the deal with all these idling vehicles?!? The ONLY times my engines run are when I’m driving or working on it. But I see vehicles running all the time, everywhere I go, that aren’t moving or even occupied. Is fuel too cheap?
Even if you have to stop to close a gate behind you?
Something that should be mentioned on the UA debacle is how, once upon a time, when full-size cars were big with lots of foot room, the brake pedal on automatic transmission cars was ‘huge’. Plus, in most cases, the accelerator pedal was not suspended but attached at the base.
But, then, the small car invasion began. Foreign cars had much less foot room and Europeans and the Japanese weren’t nearly as adverse to manual transmissions. When they did equip one of their vehicles with an automatic, the brake pedal might have increased in size, but only slightly. I posit that it took a while for both domestic consumers and foreign manufacturers to adjust to this discrepancy as sales began taking off, with the Audi UA farce contributing greatly to the change.
My old boss had a couple of Audi’s back then and loved them. He was not a car guy; even stated that to him, a car was an appliance. Still, he knew that the UA scare was crap.
I remember he mentioned that Audi owners received a vhs tape from Audi about the issue. Anyone remember this? What was the content of the video?
Almost certainly the video that’s embedded in the post above. Did you miss it?
Yes, thanks, that’s probably the video my boss described.
My experiences with European autos would make me think that European folks don’t have big ol’ Sasquatch feet like mine.
Up to the time of this 60 minutes report I had held CBS and 60 Minutes in particular in great regard. They lost all credibility with this over the top report. As I recall they even spoke on camera with a Catholic Priest who was related to one of the female accusers. All as a way of proving the Cars were at fault. Audi should have sued CBS. AS far as facts go , I’d put more faith today in a Simpson’s episode than any 60 minutes story. If I want a fair and honest look at the news today I’ll watch PBS’s Frontline.
Back when this issue became Big News, I remember a relative in Pennsylvania saying that Audis were bought by above-average income Baby Boomers and there was no way they, as an “apparently privileged” class, could be so STUPID as to push the accelerator accidentally.
SURPRISE! Stupidity knows no economic, social, generational or (just in case someone mentions it) geographic bounds. Everyone is equally vulnerable.
As for the media, they have been on the race to the bottom for a long time, witness their mindless weather reporting and the endless stream of dreary sitcoms. Their news departments are no longer reporters, but entertainers.
I experienced unintended a celebration one time in my 1975 Datsun B2 10. A hose had come loose from the air cleaner, which caused the car to accelerate wildly. You know what I did? I turned off the ignition and pulled over to the side of the road. I opened the hood put the hose back where it belonged and attached it with a spare hose clamp that I had in the trunk. That seems like the obvious thing to do, to me anyway, but I’m not everybody I guess!
“A celebration?” I meant “acceleration.” That’s what I get for using the voice recognition function on my cell phone…
I also had an unintended acceleration incident in a ’77 Bonneville. The car was 10 years old by that time and in poor tune. Because of that and the frigid temperature that day the engine was racing at idle after I started it, but because of the car’s excellent sound insulation, lack of tachometer, and the radio being on, I didn’t notice. When I shifted into reverse, the car plunged backward out of my parking lot space. My foot was on the brake, but not hard enough to counteract the higher-than-usual revving engine. I quickly realized what was going on and stepped harder on the brake and the car of course stopped. Fortunately nobody was behind me. I thought to myself, this is what happens when you don’t maintain your vehicle. I never once thought to blame the car.
That sounds like a pretty strange experience. In my case, it was pretty obvious what was wrong. The accelerator went down to the floor completely on its own, and the motor immediately redlined, so I just figured the engine was getting way too much air in the air/fuel mixture, and it looks like I was right. It was a California-spec car with the awful Rube Goldberg emissions controls of the day.
no not too strange on old American carburated cars – my 78 Lincoln was constantly stuck on high idle during colder weather (nothing would fix it – mind you it was almost 30 yrs old at the time)
80 hm/h without touching the gas….fun in the winter
Yup, we had an UA at work when our HR lady did a donut in the parking lot with her BMW, narrowly missing a coworker and hitting a car.
Like everyone else who has UA she swore she had her foot on the brake, but probably not….
“probably not?”
These denials always remind me of my Dad who was lucky to be unhurt when he merged into the path of a large truck. My Dad said the truck “came from nowhere” – as if it had materialized out of thin air.
The truth of course was that my Dad simply hadn’t looked before merging. Subjectively to him it had “come from nowhere” because he had assumed that the lane he was merging into was empty. It wasn’t.
He couldn’t get out of his “mind’s eye” a picture of the next lane being empty. Of course he couldn’t explain how the truck had got there other than that “it must have been travelling very fast”. That wasn’t an explanation that made any sense but he always insisted he was right.
The Audi 5000 problems were due to two things as far as I can tell, but I have never been in any Audi, much less the 5000. But I think the brake and gas peddle design was different from most (all?) American cars. Drivers getting into a strange or different car should make sure they are familiar with all of the controls before driving. So I think that the problem was driver error (like pilot error).
From time to time aging drivers seem to lose control for one reason or another, even when they have been driving the car for some period of time.
My car has surprised me now and then with unexpected deceleration. When in cruise control it will down shift a few gears (at least two) to keep to the set speed. Will also hit the brakes if the car in front is going slow enough as I approach and I don’t move to the passing lane.
There was a good investigation in Car and Driver about the 60 Minutes episode, mostly rebuking it as bunk. But they did note that the 5000 had two issues that both contributed to UA incidents – a faulty EGR valve that made engines rev too fast, and a relationship between the seat, steering wheel, gas pedal, and brake pedal placement that, while not wildly unorthodox, were all at the extremes of the several competitive cars that they compared it to, and that in each case the slightly different position (i.e. the pedals being further together and further to the left) would make it easier to inadvertently step on the accelerator instead of the brake in the Audi. None of that of course would explain why Audi drivers blaming UA for their collisions claimed the brake didn’t work at all, yet the brakes were always found to be working fine when post-collision cars were inspected.
Those were all the factors that made the Audi susceptible to pedal mis-application. And are acknowledged by Audi in their video.
Old Mopars that break the engine mount get some UA, I was in a 70 Sport Satalite when it happened but my buddy just calmly braked the car and shut the engine off.
I recall our ’68 Bel Air with the 307 had cable stays added to restrain the engine in case the mounts broke. I think UA was the reason for the recall.
I wear a size 13ee. I have found that at times, I can inadvertently have my foot on the brake and the gas at the same time. The newer sma;ller cars and smaller footwells are not a friendly environment for “Big Foot”. Having said that, though, I’ve NEVER not realized what was happening and corrected the situation immediately w/o losing
control! 🙂
I have two Audi 5000 that are daily drivers. One is a stick shift Quattro and the other is a FWD automatic.
I have a theory on why an automatic Audi 500 had so many accounts of the unintended acceleration problem based on my own car that had 24,000 original miles.
When my 1984 automatic Audi 5000 is started above 65 degrees while the engine is cold it would go through this mild engine surge cycle before the idle stabilizes. As you start the engine it would run up to about 1200 RPM’s. Then the engine would drop to around 600 RPMs. Next it re-surges to about 1600 RPMs and returns down to settle around 800 RPMs. This happens in a very short period of time. (seconds)
If someone started this car and immediately put it in gear, the owner would think the car is going to surge ahead or surge in reverse. This is the point where the owner panics to hit the brake and instead hits the gas.
The brakes could easily hold the car, but the idle surge made the driver panic and make the mistake.
You’re quite right. This idle surge was identified early on as a key trigger, and is mentioned in the video Audi made. That combined with somewhat unusual pedal placement put the Audi at high risk for pedal mis-application.
Bingo !
I have personally experienced uintended accelleration twice, once in my Mercedes 300E and once when driving a buddy’s Range Rover. Both times, the sole reason for the “phenomenon” was because I did not move my big size 13 foot far enough from the gas pedal when applying the brakes. Both times, braking won out over accelleration, and both times, my initial thought was that something must be wrong with the car. I mostly drive my Chevy Silverado and get pretty used to that truck’s pedal placement.
As a side note, Back in the late 80s, my ex wifes grandparents picked up a gently used Audi 5000 on the cheap due to the diminished value stemming from the bad publicity. it had been retrofitted with the brake interlock system. They was a really sweet car, I tried to drive theirs every chance I got.
I had an UA experience once in the company 3 ton Ford econoline cube van. Something got jammed in the throttle cable and the van took off accelerating quite fast down a side street. It always had crap brakes so while applying them with poor results my driver training kicked in. 1st put it in neutral (the engine raced and I didn’t like that much) and turned off the ignition. Stopped with a lot more effort as the crap brakes had no booster to help. Popped the hood and found one of the air intake hoses had jammed against the throttle cable. Fixed it and was on my way amazed I hadn’t blown up the old power stroke diesel with 1/2 a million kilometres on it.
had a sort of UA with a Cadillac I owned. coming up to a traffic light about 35-40 miles per hour lifted my foot off the gas and the car kept speed.
I am definitely not the sharpest driver in the world but I hit the brakes with both feet and that 2 1/2 ton beast came to a (albeit tire screaming, smoking) stop.
so yes, brakes will stop you if you have enough brains to hit the damn pedal!
i Might have mentioned this before but one winters day on the motorway about 25 years ago the throttle on my 1.0 Litre Austin Metro froze wide open. The brakes were not enough to stop it – I had to use a combination of brake stomping and changing down through the gears to get on the hard shoulder and then turn off the ignition. I waited a little while and then I guess whatever had frozen had thawed out as I was able to drive normally. But it was pretty hair raising at the time.
A 1.0L engine? That’s a puny power output for sure. No way it could overpower the brakes. I’m not buying that you couldn’t stop it with brakes alone.
I let a friend drive my 55 Thunderbird in high school, ages ago. On a straight back road, he floored it, and the throttle stuck open. He panicked, I reached over and turned off the ignition. Stopped the car pretty effectively. Fortunate it wasn’t a curved road tho.
Something that I nearly forgot: My 1978 Olds cruise control started to gradually increase the set speed. It got worse with time and I had it fixed before starting off on a long trip. But someone I knew had an early 80’s Buick Lesabre (b-body) whose cruise control suddenly malfunctioned and opened the throttle wide. Buick’s did not have on/off switches for the cruise control as I recall. In any case, he put the car into neutral and steered it off the street he was on. The engine failed. I asked why did you not just shut off the engine. He thought the steering wheel would lock up. I said not unless you are in Park, but he was quite sure I was wrong.
The point is that there is such a thing as unintended acceleration that is caused by some failure of one of the car’s systems.
Oh boy, time to scan ebay for a 5000. I want one now!
I once drove a late 80’s Chevy Celebrity rental car, I was braking getting off an interstate ramp, when I let off the brake pedal the cruise kicked back on, car lurched forward. I hit the brakes again and manually turned off the cruise. It was scary for a minute but no harm ultimately done. I did exchange the rental though for the rest of my trip.
Quote: And these Audis had a mind of their own. No matter how hard Mom pushed on the brake pedal, the Audi kept on charging, right through the garage door with granny on the prow. This despite the fact that the little five-cylinder mill only cranked out 130 horsepower. And the top-notch four-wheel disc brake system probably could generate well over 600 equivalent horsepower.
That would be the more expensive turbo. The base and most common 2.1 liter 5 cylinder made but 100 horses for 1984 and was upgraded to 110 the following year for NA at least. My uncle owned and still runs a foreign import repair service and was gung ho on these 5000’s. He got the majority of the family into these cars back in the 80’s. Needless to say he is the only one left driving and liking anything with an Audi badge.
I to this day think the entire narrative was rubbish – including the pedal positioning having anything to do with those incidents. I was an incredibly fortunate teen with a childhood I can truly say was so awesome it still seems almost surreal. At 16, my father and I drove from my hometown (Lake Havasu City, AZ) in his 1989 Mercedes 300E to BMW of Palm Springs. Inside the dealership on the dealer display floor was a brand new black BMW 325i with a black leather interior. That was my first car, and to this day I can say it’s my favorite. And I’m in a financial position where I have several of the ultimate German models today (2018 BMW Alpina B7; Mercedes S65 AMG; Porsche 911 Turbo S, and a few more – I may sound like an arrogant ass here but bear with me).
My family was financially nuked two years later. I was a Sophomore in college and the 325i had to finally go – I had evaded the repo man for a few months. I had been doing extremely well augmententing my financial situation in college via Day Trading (in 1993, when the term didn’t exist in the mainstream lexicon…it involved more than an app! And hence why today I’m the Founder & CEO of a substantial private asset management firm on Wall Street…).
But I knew I needed to replace the BMW with something I could pay cash for, not worry about lease payments, and I was adamant I wanted a high-end German sedan. Boom, it hit me – go look for an Audi 5000! The baseless Unintended Acceleration narrative must have those bastards still cheap as hell, I thought.
I found a 1986 Audi 5000 with 21,300 miles on it at a small imported used car lot in Phoenix, AZ. It was in pristine condition…and I bought it for $3,950 cash.
No, it wasn’t the BMW – it had the online 5 cylinder engine that if memory serves cranked out just over 100 hp. So when I planted the accelerator pedal, it was nothing like the 325i and that gorgeous sounding 168 hp 2.5 liter straight 6. OK, I thought…it’s pretty goddamn slow. And the air conditioner, while probably adequate for Germany’s climate, simply couldn’t get that car cool enough on those 116 degree afternoons. Luckily I attended Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff so it was fine until summer came and I descended back into the Sonoran Desert (Phoenix) for summer break.
That car was a life saver. It was built like German card of that time period were – the solid CLUNK when you closed a door, the fit and finish left no gaps, squeaks or rattles, it had the European upscale luxury look…and try as I might, I never ever could figure out how anyone could say the pedal positioning was awkward. Maybe that was because my first car was also a German automatic and I had zero experience with what I now know where extraordinarily wide brake pedals on those land barges out of Detroit in the late 1970’s? I to this day have come across Audi 5000s and I look at the pedal positioning and I scratch my head.
Anyways, she got me through college in style. No reliability issues, obviously no UA incidents, girls thought it was a very nice car (important at that age and time and place!!)…I still think about finding a low-mileage 5000 and have it refurbished and keep it at a home I keep in the desert just as a collectable (I have done one thus far, a 1983 BMW 320i with 9,200 miles on it – lotta fun driving it when I’m at the house in Havasu!).
Sorry for the lengthy post- I came across this article after tell ng one of my prop traders yesterday I was “Audi 5000!” And this 25 year old looked at me like WTF are you saying old man (I’m 43). I really zed that for a few years – like early 80’s – in hip hop slang Audi 5000 meant I’m outta here fast! A tounge in cheek reference to the Unintended Acceleration deal.
Great article clear and comments to all…”I’m Audi 5000, G!” ?
I have never trusted mass media news sources, whose prime objective is to generate advertising revenue that will jack up stock prices. Never mind truth. Never mind accuracy.
I call ABC News and their network affiliates “Disneyland News” because that is who owns them. But at least we know that. Who is behind the dull grey men at other Big Corporations???
I experienced UA in a diesel Rabbit. I don’t recall the technical reason but what happened was the engine started using its own oil as fuel. Definitely an O Sh@t moment but was still able to stop using the brakes.
What happens is the diesels breather system was defective and under certain conditions the breather hose would develop suction that would pull engine oil out of the crankcase into the intake manifold and cause the engine to run away running on the crankcase oil. VW had a recall breather kit to fix this, handed out many to the service techs doing the recall back in the ’80’s when I worked for a VW parts department. Lifetime safety recall.
Many years ago I had a stuck front brake caliper on my car. Some corrosion in the brake system was allowing brake fluid to flow to the caliper to apply the brake but wouldn’t allow it to return to release the brake. With just one brake locked, the car couldn’t be moved 10 feet. With four functional brakes, there is no chance of this UA fairytale happening.
To 60 Minutes’ credit, they themselves never screwed up that badly again and largely steered away (npi) from what in the ’80s was called “consumer news” and sticking largely to politics and government which is their wheelhouse, even after their competitors (NBC’s Dateline which was responsible for the Chevy truck thing and ABC’s 20/20) have devolved into glorified true-crime podcasts which doesn’t get you as many enemies in high places as speaking truth to power does, doesn’t lose you advertisers like the “consumer” stuff did and is rerun-friendly to boot.
Dateline NBC’s hatchet job on GM C/K round-body pickups with sidesaddle gas tanks was even worse than the 60 Minutes piece. They actually fabricated a “incendiary device” to spark and set off a fire just as a vehicle was about to T-bone a GM pickup causing it to explode. Unfortunately they set off the incendiary device a fraction of a second too soon, and someone from General Motors noticed the spark ignited even before the two vehicles touched when viewed in slo-mo. They hired detectives who discovered the doctored truck used in the piece in a local junkyard and bought it. NBC News was forced to retract their earlier report in a future episode of Dateline.
Audi’s collapsing sales after the 60 Minutes report were partly because of it, but quality-control problems and improving competition also played a role. I recall Car and Driver thought the new even more radically shaped Ford Taurus was just as good as the 5000 and considerably less expensive: after testing a production model, they concluded “The Taurus is competitive with European sedans as well. In performance, handling, ride, fuel economy, and utility, it is as good as or better than the Audi 5000S and the BMW 528e. And while the Audi costs $18,065 and the BMW $26,280, the Taurus LX can be had for $13,351. That price includes air conditioning; power windows, locks, mirrors, and lumbar support; the V-6 with the four-speed automatic; a four-speaker AM/FM-stereo radio; and premium interior trim. Even at the $15,079 price of our fully loaded test car, the Taurus is priced very competitively”.
Rich Ceppos in his counterpoint opined: “Now that I’ve finally driven a production Taurus, I’m more than ready to tackle the question we’ve been posing for the past several months. Is this Ford really a breakthrough, a car with European breeding, German-luxury-car moves, a strong dose of value, and all the goodness that can be packed into a cut-rate Audi 5000? The answer is yes.”
“DETROIT, Dec. 4 [1971] The General Motors Corporation said today that it would recall nearly 6.7 million Chevrolet automobiles and trucks to correct what the Federal authorities and other critics call a major safety hazard..To be recalled are 6,682,000 of the 1965 through 1969 full size Chevrolet cars and the smaller Nova models, plus 1967– 1969 Camaro autos [all with V-8 engines] …The two motor mounts are rubber and metal sandwiches placed between the engine and the automobile skeleton to keep the engine vibration from passing into the skeleton. Chevrolet owners have been complaining that these mounts have been breaking, and the company has replaced 100,000 of them….But the company is still insisting, as it has for weeks, that the problem is no safety defect.
When the mounts break, it has been charged, the engine may lift a few inches from the engine compartment, jamming the throttle open and breaking the power brake lines. This leaves the car speeding and without brake power…..General Motors said …If anything should go wrong with an engine mount…the company said, “The driver should turn off the ignition key and brake the vehicle to a stop.””
___
This happened on my 69 Camaro …. I was in a gravel parking lot at the time and and skidded around for a minute or so until…. I turned off the ignition. Oh, and GM’s fix? They hooked a piece of chain between the inside fender liner to the engine block so the engine couldn’t fall over when the motor mounts failed (again).
Apparently when it was a domestic car issue involving am mere 6.7 million cars, it wasn’t a big deal to the press… but now if say the cars were German Luxury cars, well, that’s NEWS.
https://www.nytimes.com/1971/12/05/archives/67-million-cars-face-gm-recall-but-company-denies-safety-defect-in.html
I drove an EH Holden with a broken engine mount which used to jam the throttle wide open in 1st gear standing on the brakes (unassisted 4 w drums) would stop it so did some 8 gauge wire around the mount to reinforce it,
the Audi and Toyota tales of woe were pure BS.
A coworker of mine bought a bunch of Audi 5000’s for very little and drove them until they were rolling rust. He loved them. Over the years, my size 14 feet have caused me to be unable to press the accelerator on some cars without riding the brakes. I don’t remember what it was I test drove, but the lack of foot room instantly made the decision to pass for me. The salesman tried to come up with some sort of way to convince me I would “get used to it”, but even he realized that was just ridiculous. I normally wear basketball shoes (I have messed up feet and can’t really wear anything else) and sometimes, if I can’t get the door open all the way, my big feet are a hassle when getting out of the car. A friend of mine wears 16+1/2 or 17 sized shoes, and he has all kinds of problems getting out of some cars. At those moments, I wish I had my dad’s size 8+1/2’s.
One of the unintended consequences of this unfortunate incident was the ability for the masses to suddenly afford an off-lease or newer Audi that most car dealers were trying to unload as fast as possible. I was able to buy a pre-owned, well-optioned 1987 5000S for $5,000 that originally stickered for $32,000. Moving up from a 1990 VW Jetta with a love for German vehicles already, as a typical 28 year old back in the day, I would have struggled to otherwise afford this vehicle. I was already used to the brake and accelerator pedal spacing from the VW. It was the nicest, most comfortable, stylish vehicle I had ever owned and to me, it remains a beautiful design. We made several cross country trips and had it for many (basically) trouble-free years. The body and interior were immaculate but I finally donated it to a tech school after learning the cost of repairing a significant electronics failure was a bit too costly to justify.
One of the unintended consequences of this unfortunate incident was the ability for the masses to suddenly afford an off-lease or newer Audi that most car dealers were trying to unload as fast as possible. I was able to buy a pre-owned, well-optioned 1987 5000S for $5,000 that originally stickered for $32,000. Moving up from a 1988 VW Jetta with a love for German vehicles already, as a typical 28 year old back in the day, I would have struggled to otherwise afford this vehicle. I was already used to the brake and accelerator pedal spacing from the VW. It was the nicest, most comfortable, stylish vehicle I had ever owned and to me, it remains a beautiful design. We made several cross country trips and had it for many (basically) trouble-free years. The body and interior were immaculate but I finally donated it to a tech school after learning the cost of repairing a significant electronics failure was a bit too costly to justify.
You know, from time to time I go looking for this segment. So far, no luck. Not on EwTube nor elsewhere; it seems not to exist on the internet.
As the owner and operator of a still fully functional 1982 5000S that has never been through the back wall of the garage even a single time, I immediately recognized the blatant fallacy of the sixty minutes report, and that was the episode when I permanently stopped watching the program. The Audi fuel system is quite complex, designed in the 1930’s by Mercedes,and is solely controlled based on vacuum principles. Unless the plate in the vacuum cone moves to allow increased vacuum, nothing happens in the fuel injection module. The only thing that moves the vacuum plate is the direct mechanical rod linkage to the accelerator pedal or the cruise control actuator. This is readily apparent to any competent mechanic. “Sudden acceleration” is one of the most bogus concepts ever perpetrated by the national news media.
The other reality, related to the Audi, is that it wasn’t the FI system that was ever really implicated but the pedal placement which had the gap between the gas and brake pedals being comparatively much closer than peer vehicles.
Also there was concern about the A/T shift selector that was mitigated by a field action to install the industry’s first brake-shift interlock.
Had many interesting discussions about this topic with the Audi experts as a guest at their internal seminars.