News of manufacturers discontinuing their cars has been coming in fast and furious over the past several months, a trend that is being accelerated by the Coronavirus pandemic. Let’s take a step back and look at the fallout from the Carpocalypse, and see how many brands are going to be bereft of (passenger) cars/sedans in the near future (spoiler alert: potentially a lot).
Soon to be Car Free
The pantheon of historically car-free brands (GMC, Jeep, RAM, Land Rover) is about to get much larger, as these traditional car brands will offer only trucks and utility vehicles starting in 2021.
Lincoln
The last MKZ (and platform-mate Ford Fusion) already rolled off the Hermosillo assembly line on July 31 – At this point dealers are just selling down what is left in inventory. 2020 will also be the last year of Continental, meaning that 2021 Lincoln lineup will consist solely of SUVs and crossovers. Quite a turnaround for a brand whose first SUV, the Navigator, appeared just a scant two decades ago in 1998.
I don’t see this changing any time soon. Every couple of years rumors of a Lincoln bodied Mustang coupe pop up, but so far these have never panned out past the conjecture stage. Lincoln’s car pipeline is currently empty.
Buick
The LaCrosse (and platform-mate Chevrolet Impala) are already gone. 2020 is the last year for the Regal, so for 2021 Buick will be a crossover only brand, at least in the US.
Buick’s transformation into an all crossover brand was even more rapid than that of Lincoln: Buick’s first SUV, the Rendezvous, came out in only 2002. A refreshed 2021 Regal will still be sold in China, and could theoretically be brought back to the US in the unlikely event consumers demand another Regal.
Down to a Single Car
These brands are not quite yet free of cars but are getting dangerously close.
Ford
The rapid contraction of Ford’s car lineup in the past 24 months has been more dramatic than that of any other automaker. Gone are the Taurus, Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion, leaving just the Mustang as the sole mainstream automobile in Ford’s US lineup (OK, technically the limited production GT is still for sale, but at $500,000 it doesn’t really fit in with the rest of Ford’s lineup).
Plans on bringing a variant of the next-generation European Focus to the US got knifed in 2018, so the Ford brand will be without any new cars for the foreseeable future. Rumors are circulating that the Fusion name might be resurrected on an Outback-style wagon in 2022, which I guess is kind of a car, but nothing firm has been announced, and COVID could upset that apple cart.
Mitsubishi
The Mirage is the sole car remaining in Mitsubishi’s US lineup. Mitsubishi recently performed a mild update of the Mirage for overseas markets, which it has committed to bringing to the US in 2021. Still, with a base price of under $15,000 and sales volumes of around 25,000 units per year, it is unlikely that the Mirage is making much if any profit for Mitsubishi. This makes its future very uncertain, given the current financial troubles Mitsubishi finds itself in.
Chrysler
Chrysler has been a brand without a clear direction for several decades now. Now down to just two products (the Pacifica/Voyager minivans and the 300 sedan), this could soon be just one. The current bones of the 300’s LX platform date back to 2011 (or 2005, depending on whether you view the 2011 update as a wholly new platform or not).
Rumors of the 300’s demise have been swirling for years, and come one step closer in 2021, with the 300 product offerings reduced to just two trim levels and with several options being eliminated. While the 300 has not officially been killed yet, no replacement has been announced either.
FCA had put forth some vague vision of Chrysler being an all-electric “people mover” brand in the future, but without any firm product commitments. That was pre-PSA merger, so expect more roadmap changes in the future. For now, Chrysler’s product pipeline is empty, and the only Chrysler-branded vehicles with a certain future are the Pacifica and Voyager minivan.
Outlook is Uncertain
Dodge
Much like Chrysler, the sole cars remaining in Dodge’s lineup are based on the rapidly aging LX platform: The Charger and Challenger. The Journey and Grand Caravan are gone after 2020, so cars will actually represent a larger portion of the Dodge lineup in 2021 than in 2020 in an odd twist of fate. The only other vehicle in the Dodge lineup for 2021 is Durango, whose foundations also date to 2011, which means all the vehicles in the Dodge lineup will be riding on 10+ year-old platforms.
As with the Chrysler brand, PSA has been tight-lipped about any future vehicles for Dodge, leading to speculation about the future of not just Dodge cars, but the Dodge brand in general.
Cadillac
Wagon and coupe body styles are already gone at Cadillac, leaving the luxury maker with a trio of slow-selling sedans to hold the fort on the car side of the showroom. The CT6 is already dead after 2020, its Hamtramck assembly plant being repurposed to start making EV GMC Hummers. The CT4 and CT5 are both new, having launched this past year, although you would never know it given the lack of marketing support and “meh” names Cadillac has affixed to them. Cadillac sedans have struggled for years to get a toehold in the luxury sedan market dominated by their German competitors. If these compact and midsize sedans fail to succeed where their predecessors have failed, it is not hard to see the current generation of Cadillac sedans being the last.
Chevrolet
Already gone are the Cruze, Volt, and Impala. The U.S. is the only country where you can still buy a Sonic, the model having already been discontinued elsewhere in the world, including Canada, Mexico, and Korea. Expect it to disappear from the U.S. as well in 2021 or 2022. The Malibu’s future is even more uncertain: The current model, introduced in 2016, was originally planned to be sold through 2025. COVID may accelerate its retirement to 2022 or 2023, as Malibu sales have since fallen off a cliff. Development on a seventh-generation Camaro has supposedly been halted, effectively killing the model after 2022. If true, this would be one more nail in the coffin of Alpha platform mates CT4 and CT5 (see above), with which the Camaro shares a platform. For now, only the Spark, Bolt, and Corvette seem to have secure futures in Chevrolet’s car lineup.
Infiniti
The Q70 is already gone, leaving just the Q50 sedan and Q60 coupe in Infiniti’s automobile lineup. The FM platform that underpins all three traces its origins back almost two decades, and is no longer competitive. Nissan was working on an AWD replacement platform, but that got killed by Nissan’s recent cash crunch. Nissan is now saying that Inifinitis will no longer ride on bespoke platforms, but will instead share bones with Nissan vehicles. The future vision for Infiniti is now “Nissan-plus” rather than as a true luxury brand. Nissan has not committed to any replacement cars for Infiniti after the Q50 and Q60 expire; if any are made they will be based on existing Nissan cars such as the Maxima or Altima.
Ford ditched plans for the Focus Active well before the pandemic – in August 2018:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a22887644/ford-focus-active-not-in-us-trade-war/
I’m not the least bit fussed. I’ve never cared for cars with trunks, and aside from some too-good-to-pass-up opportunities, I’ve never sought to own one.
As far as I’m concerned, CUV are just hatchbacks or wagons with increased altitude. When seemingly half the vehicles on the road around me are trucks, I find the additional height of a CUV useful.
Apologies, sedan lovers. I do feel badly for you. But for myself, I have no issue with the CUV trend.
No offense taken. The Harley Earl doctrine of longer, lower, and wider was never about practicality, and quite frankly I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did. For most people, a CUV or pickup is a much more practical and logical vehicle choice.
Sometimes we don’t want to be logical or practical, though – hence the running gag “The answer is always Miata.” I just hope that there are enough of these people left.
For me, around 5′ OAH is the butter zone, anything above that and you start getting into handling and fuel-economy compromises I’m unwilling to make.
Unfortunately, 5′ OAH is just the not-sweet spot where a car reads to the mass buying public as “dorky small hatchback” rather than “trendy crossover”, and Ford tried to sell a bigger sedan at that level with the Five Hundred which didn’t catch on.
Well said. I started my driving career in SUVS, followed by vans and pick ups, full size and compact, plus cars. Cars simply go down the road better. More efficient, less air displacement, more comfortable and better handling. SUVs and CUVs simply seem to take more effort, more attention, more noise etc. Sure they’re great for utility, but for driving ease and pleasure, cars rule.
I understand your points, but I have to disagree with more comfortable. My legs splayed out in front of me is less comfortable then sitting more upright. I’ll take a CUV/SUV any day just for the more comfortable seating position and in most cases better sightlines.
+1. I hate SUVs but it is impossible to get cars at rental car agencies these days.
I’ll be the pedant, there’s always one… 🙂 You got the gag half right, it’s really “Miata Is Always The Answer” – look at the first letters, that’s the other half of the gag.
After you corrected me with that one day Jim, I looked it up and even folks on Miata web forums get that [the order of the words] wrong.
Once you said that it was M.I.A.T.A., I can no longer unsee that.
I just don’t see a path forward for Cadillac. It’s not just that their sedans aren’t competitive, it’s that even if they lowered the prices by 25% I still don’t think anyone would care. I see multiple Ferraris, McLarens, Lamborghinis etc every week, and I have still never seen a single CT5 or CT4
They need to focus on the Escalade, and maybe turn it into a multi-model line like the Bronco. A midsized SUV called the Escalade Sport with brash styling would certainly do better than the “Am I really a Cadillac?” XT lineup.
From a disinterested observer, it appears like almost total surrender. I assume someone still sells saloons and hatchbacks in the US, just not any American car companies. As they hide in SUV, CUV uplands, looking out fearfully, how long before the Germans, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese et al come and get ’em?
The sedans that sell well here are just a shrinking pool. Camry, Accord, Civic, Corolla, Altima, Sentra and Elantra are pretty much the only ones that can be counted on to move over 100k units a year.
Exactly. To look at most Toyota and Nissan dealership lots in the flyover states, you would think that they only sell trucks and SUVs/CUVs (and perhaps that’s not far from the truth).
Most non-luxury, base and mid-level sedans in this country scream “rental car,” “buy here, pay here (BHPH),” or “‘program car’ that was once a rental” (with “Scan Here” QR codes and “No Smoking” decals still on the windows.
Because they are still good cars from respected manufacturers. There’s nothing intrinsic to those actual vehicles that anyone else couldn’t have done as well, had they wanted to. Note also that one of the vehicles listed is from a manufacturer that had zero reputation as of fifteen years ago (the Elantra).
Definitely, I’ve owned 3 cars off that list myself. New car buyers seem to be increasingly risk averse (not just with makes, but colors & options too), and those are all solid, responsible choices, especially when it comes time to resell.
FiatChrysler is in the process of merging with PSA so I’d bet that there will be new product coming in some form. With established Chrysler and Dodge brands and dealer networks in place I’d expect some rebranded PSA models being sold by them. When Mitsubishi brought the Mirage to the US they hoped to sell 7000 of them annually, so the 25000 that they sell annually is a much greater success than the numbers would indicate. Cadillac reminds me of Humpty Dumpy. There’s serious damage there.
Indeed. To the major players, 25k/annual sales is a pittance and grounds for termination. But to hanging-by-a-thread Mitsubushi, it’s a resounding success, even on something with a razor thin profit margin like the Mirage.
From a long perspective, the 3-box sedan was a temporary phenomenon. It popped up in ’49, and its doom was sealed in ’84 with the minivan. Willys never joined the trend, except for the halfhearted Aero. Willys continued making 2-box cars, and now the rest of the pack has rejoined.
I just read a few minutes after reading your comment that Willys built it’s 1st car in 1907-08. And in a city an hour from where I grew up was the 1st Willys plant.
Willys built pretty conventional cars up to WW II, and it’s 2 door TRUNKED coupe would eventually become a favorite of drag racers. So I don’t think I can completely agree with your comment.
Willys? Why not use Hudson or Desoto sales as the best indicator of the market today… And there were plenty of 3 box cars before 1949. Here is a 1939 Cadillac sedan
The timing could not be worse. As the country endures the onset of climate catastrophe, manufacturers are limiting their products to the most inefficient.
As a motorcycle rider, I’ll point out the logical conclusion here. Motorbikes for everyone. Ride a Vespa , save the planet and have some fun along the way.
It seems more like they are limiting their products to ones that they can actually sell and consumers will actually buy (hopefully, as there doesn’t really seem to be a plan B). Without sales, there can be no business to begin with. Now, if the reasons that consumers won’t buy particular products of a particular manufacturer are likely self-inflicted over a very long term, well, that’s a different discussion. Ford would likely happily sell 300k Fusions if they could make a profit on them, sadly they don’t have the draw to do so, notwithstanding that intrinsically it’s an extremely competitive “car” and probably at least the “best of the rest” or perhaps objectively better. Some other manufacturers are either taking the view that their own cost structures are more viable or that they are seeing their low cost sedans within their ranges as a necessarily evil to keep consumers coming in their door and hopefully eventually purchasing the “fat profit” other vehicles in the range from the already familiar manufacturer when it comes time for a change. Fat profits that will only last of course until a more desperate automaker starts to cut their profit in a bid to sell more of their product in order to survive that new paradigm and then it will again be a race to the bottom for all and they’ll be in the same boat again.
All of the nameplates listed above that used to have sedans, BTW, seem to be the ones that are always talked about as circling the drain anyway BESIDES Ford, Chevy, and perhaps Dodge – but in their cases the main thing keeping them afloat are their large pickups. If they didn’t have those, they’d probably be gone already or closer to it.
What keeps cracking me up is that less that five years ago there was a common internet forum meme about how a manufacturer needs to be a “Full Line Manufacturer” to be viable and thus without multiple large trucks etc everyone but the domestics is a joke. I haven’t heard the Full Line shtick in several years now, curious, that. /s
I took this at the grocery story recently, every single vehicle is a CUV/SUV.
Which really are just taller station wagons with smaller footprints than wagons from even 30-40 years ago.
I do look forward to the at least mild hybridization of nearly everything.
It’s interesting how the whole row is in the same size class too, showing just what sells where you are…
Two Audi Q5’s, then I think a Sportage, then a Tucson, Rogue, CRV, an Outback, then another Rogue and a RAV4.
And the next aisle at least one RAV4 and then the sole outlier AND domestic brand, what looks like a Tahoe with the fin antenna thing at the front of the roof.
No domestic Escape, Terrain, Equinox or Cherokee as far as I can tell, which should perhaps worry someone in Detroit…Although I think every one of the above is built in the US, Canada, or Mexico, at least the current versions thereof.
Where in the country is this?
Address: 1515 Palm Blvd, Isle of Palms, SC 29451
Maybe you were too focused on the SUV’s but there is a very clear “Long Island Cafe” sign in the background.
A sign saying “Long Island Cafe” still doesn’t provide a wealth of clues as to its location – many might think it was in the New York area. 🙂
Fair point. I first assumed New York too. But google is a hell of a gps website. Probably works both ways i.e. the users data. But thats another discussion.
It is indeed Isle of Palms, SC. One of the pricier towns around here, but the vehicle demographics seem to carry over to most other nearby cities.
Domestics only really sell pickups & full size SUVs here. Jeep has good presence, and some of the Ford CUVs used to do better, but by and large most cars & CUVs are Japanese, Korean or European.
” showing just what sells where you are…”
Although, IOP is a massive tourist destination — there’s a better than even chance that more than half of those cars are not local.
(Howdy Chas county neighbor James!)
As I get older, I find the ease of getting into and out of a vehicle is a big factor. The giant brodozers are a problem in that I have to hang onto the door and pull myself up to get into them, so that’s a no on any current full sized truck. A friend’s Colorado was much better in that respect. My 92 F-150 was just right for me.
Low slung cars like a Miata are just as troublesome in the opposite way as the contortions needed to get down and to get out are annoying in an ‘damn, am I getting old?’ kind of way. My ’19 Cruze doesn’t make me think that, but I still brush my head on the door frame as I get in. A cousin’s Miata was so low that I had difficulty getting out and my hip complained grumpily for about a half hour after, so one of those as a grocery-getter is a no, sadly. That means my dream of finding/restoring/driving a Karmann Ghia will remain that 🙁
Mid-height compact CUVs seem to be the sweet spot right now, but I betcha those will start getting taller and bigger in each succeeding generation.
This is so on point. The sedan, up until recently, was neither too low nor too tall for easy ingress and egress. Now, they try to make them more like coupes and lower them to make them sporty, and it has caused the sedan to no longer be the go to vehicle for livery and hauling people around, like realtors do. I recall being told to get a sedan for realtor work in the late 2000s, something easy to get in and out of, as a lot of older folks were the clientele in SW/Central Florida. And I recall my elderly Aunt not being able to step into my 2004 Santa Fe, it being too high a step. We used her 2000 Century for chauffeuring her around because of that. A sedan, a regular, run of the mill sedan, used to have that ease of ingress/egress, but no longer. How sad, and how sad to think that OEMs may have done that to increase moving a lot of folks out of sedans and into more profitable CUVs.
And being a bit older, I get that a CUV is the sweet spot right now. The true SUVs are too tall for a lot of smaller elderly ladies to ever get in, and the current sedans are too hard to get out of. But the next gen CUVs will invariably be bigger, taller, and less and less easy to get in or out of, just as you say.
I definitely second this, and this is why I love the Chrysler LX platform. The H-point on my Magnum SRT8 is just about perfect. Even in my dad’s Challenger SRT392, it’s the same. It’s a very comfortable car to get in and out of. My husband’s Mercedes E350 Bluetec is lower to the ground, and it was the first car that i found uncomfortable to get in and out of…. but once in it is supremely comfortable. I used to have an ’01 Mustang GT convertible in my late 20s, and I never had an issue. Now in my early 40s with another 01 Mustang GT… it’s not as easy to get in and out of as I remember.
“Mid-height compact CUVs seem to be the sweet spot right now, but I betcha those will start getting taller and bigger in each succeeding generation.”
What makes you say that? If anything, compact CUVs have been getting slightly lower with each passing generation.
Exactly. I was against dropping sedans until I saw just how car-like the new Escape was and it’s the kind of direction things i’d really like to see things keep going in.
I just got home after a 3200 mile road trip through California, Oregon, Idaho and Nevada. A lot of time behind the windshield on busy interstates as well as remote back roads, often unpaved. The vehicular pattern that still surprised me was the ubiquity of heavy-duty full-size pickups in the rural areas. Sure, lots were work trucks, but many were shiny high-trim $70k diesels hauling big families and recreational “toys”. And a lot more RAM and Chevy/GMC than I see in Ford-dominated central California. It’s been said before, but these are the successors of the big 1957-1977 sedans; still with three boxes, just with one of the boxes open. And in at least these parts of the US, almost as many, perhaps more, big block diesels as gasoline powered 1/2 ton 150 and 1500 versions. With these high margin sales, who needs sedans … or even crossovers? By the way, in some parts of Idaho, it almost seemed like the most common late-model sedan was the Audi A4.
And another common sight in the more “backcountry” areas was converted cargo van campers, mostly Sprinter but many Promaster and a few Transits. Not relevant to mass market trends, but a huge change from my last long road trip in 2016.
Welcome to my view on the interstates and cities I drive on/in and thank you for confirming what is actually happening in very large parts of the country that lots of people never visit or get out to, it gives perspective.
The $70K RAM 2500 I reviewed recently – the day I gave it back I saw the identical model with the same “Night Package” wheels and trim TWICE, one white and the other black, both with dealer plates and both with the Cummins diesel. Never mind all the others in different trims and equipment levels, RAM for one is cleaning up and the others surely are as well.
I just completed a 2000 mile road trip from Texas to Florida and back, traversing much of the Deep South in our very comfortable crossover. I too was amazed at the prevalence of full-size pickup trucks in non-metropolitan areas, including many newer high-trim half-ton and well-equipped heavy-duty models. Knowing that we were passing through some of the lowest income places in the U.S., I wondered whether the prices of these trucks were too far out of reach for much of the local population. It would seem that the Detroit Three in particular are cutting themselves out of the entry-level market, whether it is young people or moderate income folks and while there may not be much profit there, it can set up customers for a lifetime of motor vehicle purchases.
It feels like living in one of those apocalyptic movies where hunger and pestilence stalk the land, the streets are full vagrants and drug dealers rule the roost. Those left with any money stay in their fortress homes, serviced by Amazon and Deliveroo, occasionally venturing out in their high-rise gangster style vehicles with the blacked out windows.
The US median age in 1960 was 30; now it’s bumping 40. My guess is that the majority of new cars are sold to people over 40, so it makes sense that vehicle manufacturers are catering to those buyers whose hip and knee joints don’t complain as much when they enter and exit a taller vehicle with seats higher off the floor and the ground.
I think the average new car buyer is around 60 actually.
2020 has really vindicated those of us who get chastised for saying “good old days“, wearing our “rose tinted glasses” Fuck it, I miss the good old days, these lineups stink (ex. Dodge), the present is awful for everyone and the future is grim. Progress!
Thank god for that tall hatchback versatility right? …….As everything sizable shows up to your doorstep in an amazon delivery van….
I`ll NEVER go ‘crossover’or SUV. I have no need for one. Just like all those CGI superhero movies, they all look the same. If you`ve seen one, well, you know the rest. They can take my Civic coupe away from me when they pry my cold, dead hands from the wheel.
Same here. My car is for myself and until one of these others can handle as well as my particular Ford Focus, not likely, I’ll stay with my sedan.
How I long for a brand-new-with-warranty 2002–2009 Trailblazer or Envoy. A nearly-perfect marriage of size, power, ease of entry, utility, and comfort. Yeah, another 20–50 horsepower and torque would be nice, but not absolutely essential. My ’03 has a quarter-million miles and isn’t going to last forever.
Next vehicle, best I can tell right now, will be a five-ish year old Tahoe. Bigger than I want, thirstier than I prefer, but it’s got a real frame under it, a real engine in it, it’ll go off-road, and although it’s loaded with bullshit, too many transmission gears, futile electronics, and hateful spyware, at least the basics are “right”.
SWMBO says “cars” are too hard to get into and out-of.
I say the “right” car is worth getting into and out-of, (for me) but “right” cars aren’t common and never were.
Have you considered the Japanese?
Toyota 4-Runner
Lexus GX
Nissan Armada
Infiniti QX80
Also, the Ford Explorer Jeep Grand Cherokee, Dodge Durango and Lincoln Aviator are uni-body… But, engines are longitudinal and they have a RWD-bias. Sort of the “goldilocks” of the segment.
My work had a bunch of trail blazer owners, they are now pickup or grand cherokee owners
So called progress has destroyed much and created so many holes in the automotive landscape. It really is Automotive Malaise era II as far as I and many others I have spoke to are concerned. So many choices are disappearing and it is getting harder and harder to be a fan of the current automotive landscape with the current sad dire direction things are progressing in.
With that in mind I will continue to purchase a mid to full sized sedan from however wants to keep making them. I have had Impala’s for my last 4 cars and loved them and would have purchased another but GM is pulling the plug on any and all cars I would have been interested in down the road including the Regal hatch or wagon. So GM and Ford have effectively lost both my business and many members of the family. I will have to look to Kia and Hyundai for my next sedan purchase as I simply do not want or need a larger more expensive slower, thirstier CUV or SUV that is in the size class of my current 2019 Impala.
I paid 19,900 for my current Impala with only 16K miles as a lightly used loaded LT V6 model with leather power seats, pano roof and most everything else I could ever want. To get and Explorer or Traverse the same year with similar levels of power and options would have easily cost me another 10K. The smaller Escapes and Equinoxes are noticeably smaller inside in front and less comfortable, far slower with the main stream 1.5T engines and still would have cost me more to both purchase and insure going by the same model year, trim level and equipment. i would have needed to go down to a Trax or Ecosport in a higher trim level to keep this current price point and those are truly subpar vehicles in every way including some of the tiny foreign boxes like the Venu.
Hate to tell you this, sir, but the fact that your Impala was purchased used, rather than new, is one of the problems. OEMs are not in business to sell you a used car, they selll new ones. If you don’t buy new, then you have no say in what gets produced in the future, because you are not participating in their sales business model.
The reason we see so few companies buying sedans is that we see fewer and fewer people buying them, other than fleet/rental groups. And even then, we see more and more CUV/SUVs being offered at the rental counter. The buying public went to the new “it” vehicle, and the OEMs realize it is in their interest to build and sell as many of those models, with associated higher profit margin, than a sedan.
Like I tell everyone, if you want to see a product being made, you have to buy it, new, not wait for a used version to come out at a lower price. Want a manual? Buy a new car so equipped, and the OEMs will keep offering them. Want a station wagon? Buy any of the few new ones still offered. You will always have the choice of any old model ever produced as an option on the used market, but for an OEM to spend their capital to build a product, they want to know that it will sell, and sell at a profit, and in high number. They don’t build something to hope it satisfies the used car buyer.
JFrank,
I will take it a step further and say if you don’t by new AND Special Order, you have no say in what gets produced in the future. One of the Baruth’s has an article about working in a Ford dealership in the 90’s. I remember three things.
1. Minimize Floorplan
2. Always order white or dark green Windstars. Jack made the dealer order a Magenta Windstar once and his job was on the line until he sold it to some debutante turned housewife.
3. Always order dark green and gold two tone Eddie Bauer Explorers. NOT Explorer Limiteds. Explorer Limiteds did not get incentivized the same way Eddie Bauer’s did. As such it was easier to up-sell an Eddie Bauer to someone looking for an Explorer XLT. It was also easier to down-sell someone looking for a Limited into an Eddie Bauer. But it was impossible to sell a Limited to someone looking for an Eddie Bauer.
Even when we buy new from dealer stock. We are only given the illusion of choice.
By the way, regarding comments about age and ease of ingress/egress and general driving position, my in-laws switched from a sedan and wagon (1st gen Camry and Subaru Loyale) when we we’re first married, through a succession of Mopar minivans, to a CRV. Then they “downsized” to an Elantra and now they drive a Kia Optima Hybrid. Which to me seems both low and large for elderly drivers, but they love it. And yes, they seem to have a new car every time I see them.
Even most compact and mid-size sedans are noticeably taller than they were 20-30 years ago.
Perhaps that’s true, but I (and I suspect my in-laws) are a lot less flexible than 20-30 years ago. After years of driving mostly compact/mid-size pickups plus an SUV, my wife’s Golf, which is hardly low-slung, seems awkward to get in and out of. Though once installed, the driving position is excellent.
In Japan, where the majority of the population is even older, they have minivans where the whole front seat pivots out and gently lowers you to the ground, or lifts you in.
NHTSA and IIHS killed all that cool tech in America. Then again people in Japan aren’t likely driving on highways at speeds approaching 100 MPH on a regular basis either.
The only tech we are allowed in America are memory seats and steering wheels that fully retract when the car is turned off and then return to the driving position when the car is started again.
If I were in the insurance or emergency response industry I would likely have a much more pro-safety opinion than I do. It must be traumatic to see people die in wrecks that occur at those kind of high speeds over and over again.
But touch screens passed the safety test. We are living in The Twilight Zone.
Not to mention beta-autopilot
That cars are not selling simply because they are cars is a half truth at best. Tesla is still selling lots of new cars because they are the “it” car. If a legacy manufacturer produced a true Tesla equivalent car they wouldn’t be able to pump them out fast enough. I believe the future will not be separate platforms (excluding commercial/ industrial) based on size or type. The future will be modular battery packs (think Legos) used as fully stressed members to be added to or subtracted from accordingly. That would also apply to the motor(s), suspension, crash structure and electronics. As boring as it sounds they are the fundamental foundation. From a profit standpoint why would a company want to spend millions on making any one of the fundamentals unique to a model or platform. Aside from us motorheads, customers could give two shits about what they cannot “see.” Customers rely solely on their budget, hearsay, maybe aggregate reviews and most importantly subjective inputs with what they directly interact with. Distilled to their essence customers are quite similar to a child that points at the hood when asked: what makes the car go? I say this not to belittle the majority of customers. Dare I say even us motorheads sometimes fall into this category and that’s not a bad thing. Just as no one should dismiss an enthusiast with little to no knowledge but has a big enough bank account and desire to purchase the latest supercar,
To recap my rant. We needn’t get frustrated debating the inevitable transition from cars to larger vehicles. It’s just a temporary form following fashion. The current compromises in vehicle dynamics will hopefully only apply to petroleum propelled cars. On the flip side if your love for petroleum cars never subsides just wait until electron sales surpass hydrocarbons and you should be able to pickup your dream car for pennies on the dollar. The sooner companies figure out the fundamentals the sooner you can get your cream puff dream machine. By the time that happens electrons just might turn you on.
“Pennies on the dollar”
Yep. Those “million dollar muscle cars” will come down rapidly in value once all the boomers are gone. I have yet to see an of my generation at any of those auctions on TV.
Been paying particular attention to Oldsmobile 442 W30’s. Went from 75,000 in the 90’s to 100,000 in the 2000’s and 2010’s today around 60,000. If you take into account inflation and alternative investment strategies such as Apple stock. That car lost about 50% of its value since its 2005-ish high-point.
The kids don’t want to be bothered and just want it gone.
This ones listed for 69900.
https://www.allcollectorcars.com/for-sale/1969-Oldsmobile-442-W30-Fully-Restored—SEE-VIDEO–/2366597/
That 69 442 W30 is exactly what I was referring to. Full rebuild 10 years ago. Brakes updated to disk all around and tubular control arms. This is better than stock in my opinion. Anyone that selective about ONLY upgrading components that greatly improve safety and performance gets it.
Investing in cars has always been dumb, this hobby(at least with regard to muscle cars/hot rods was historically reserved for passionate middle class hobbiests who will sink their time and money into something with no monetary payout beyond the pride and accomplishment of it. Investors swooped in and bought them up and deprived the hobby of these cars for my generation. I’ve been to a few of the Mecum auctions that passed through the area, but just to gaze at the cars. I’d buy a W30 tomorrow if it cost me less than $10,000, but there’s not much point trying when someone bids it up to 8x it’s inflation adjusted sticker price.
XR7,
Take a look at the 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO.
They have really come down in price.
Here is one with manual trans and just under 70K for only $16,000. The sellers E-Bay account is open to accepting offers as well.
Other than retro Dodge Challengers, it is hard for me to see a V8, RWD, M/T, Grand Touring Coupe ever being this cheap again (in real dollars). I don’t think I will ever see a $16,000 442 W30 ever again, no matter how much the bottom drops out of the market. After all, the “regular” 442’s and Cutlass Supreme’s need to be worth something too.
Muscle Cars will always be at least $30,000. It has to be that high to justify bothering to do the paperwork and keep the lights on at these auction houses and museums. Similar to the art-world.
https://www.fiatusaofstrongsville.com/used-Strongsville-2004-Pontiac-GTO-2dr+Cpe-6G2VX12G44L267817
I already have a modernish V8 RWD M/T Grand Touring Coupe, so I’m not really looking for another. I know the choices, and it will probably be a Challenger
I agree, I don’t see many muscle cars falling below that price level, but I was actually making that point. You don’t see young people bidding on them now in auctions because the young people interested in those cars aren’t looking at them as an investment gamble like the current market holding onto them does. I’d love to have any number of those cars, but I’m not going to be funding someone,’s retirement to get my hands on one. I’m young enough and patient enough to wait out the correction.
Also look at the values of a Hemi Mopar from the 1960s and 70s.
Stratospheric pricing just a while back, now, not so much. Not only did the market start aging out, everyone who wants one either bought one at the high price, or bought something they settled on at a decent price.
We are seeing the market correct to adjust for what the new crop of nostalgia fed buyers want, and it seems to be a completely different thing than what the boomers wanted. And that is the nature of the beast. Boomers did not take to the brass era/1920s/Duesenberg model that the greatest generations cherished, and prices on those dropped significantly. But one can still find them, at a decent price, if one really wants one. The same will go with muscle cars, tri-five Chevy models, and the cars boomers covet.
One major factor seems to be overlooked in the demise of the three box car. At one time car trunks were very useful. They’d swallow up bicycles, cooler chests or luggage and with the lid open could transport furniture and even appliances as long as they weren’t refrigerators. Many of the modern sedans have good trunk space but stupidly shaped trunk openings. If a cars trunk can hold a cooler chest but the opening won’t allow it to be loaded then an engineer who has been educated beyond his means should be shown the. door.
*Engineer who has been Employed beyond his means*
I tried to do a brake job on my 2015 Sonata. Those geniuses secured the caliper bracket with two philips head screws per wheel that may as well have been welded to the car. Like, hello, they make hex heads and torx heads for a reason.
All I have to say regarding Hyundai and Kia is that all of these people claiming to want them for their next car are in for some “surprises.”
On my Sonata there is no aftermarket air filter available and a replacement key fob is about 400-600 dollars including “programming and key-cutting” which are considered “add-ons.”
Has anyone ever walked into home depot and purchased a blank key? Why would Hyundai expect its owners to do that? Why would they design a fob system that costs as much for replacement as the entire car is likely to be worth in fifteen years?
Not sure what you are talking about, if you google 2015 Sonata Air Filter the same twelve million choices come up for it as they do every other car ever made. There are plenty of aftermarket choices…
The brakes can’t be that difficult to do either, it’s not like the service techs at the dealer have a magic screwdriver to make it easy for them. You’re probably doing something wrong. The online images show normal bolts like every other mass market car, don’t see anything Phillips headed there…
Philips drive brake rotor screws.
People on the forums are not re-installing them once they are out. I don’t recommend that.
https://www.hyundai-forums.com/threads/brake-rotor-phillips-screws.436321/
Rock Auto says that there are a few more air filter choices now then there were last year when I brought it.
There were three different engines available in 2015 (four if you count the hybrid) which is why you got so many results. I have the 2.4 gas non-hybrid.
I ended up ordering the OEM air filter from South Korea. It was actually the least expensive option on E-Bay at that time.
Its a PITA to have to mail order a filter or pay top dollar at Autozone or the dealer.
I usually use K&N or equivalent but I couldn’t find one of those available for my car.
Wal-Mart doesn’t carry the paper filter in stores.
Those geniuses secured the caliper bracket with two philips head screws per wheel that may as well have been welded to the car.
Those screws don not hold the caliper bracket at all. They hold the rotor to the hub, and are unnecessary to put back in, as their purpose is only to hold the assembly together on the assembly line.
Oh the rotor screws? You just need a manual impact driver and your hammer to get those out and then toss them.
The filters cost around $10-15 at Autozone, Amazon, wherever. Walmart may not stock it at their store but it’s been common for years, that engine is used in multiple vehicles H/K makes and has been for years. No need to order from overseas.
x2 Ironically the tall rear ends of modern high beltline sedans give cavernous depth to trunks, yet you’ll have to chainsaw anything you buy in half to get it through the mailslot of an opening. Meanwhile the large trunklid of my Cougar has negated the need for a truck over the years, it’s swallowed everything I’ve ever thrown in it, furniture, TVs, large sheets of plywood with the seat folded down, even engine blocks and transmissions. And those are the things I didn’t use bungee cords with.
Regarding the absolutely outrageous key fob price. I think its one of the universal items all manufactures rake people over the coals on because it uses proprietary software. You might want to Google and see if a generic programmable fob is available. Youtube has may videos on how to program the fob via a series of ignition switch position changes. On my Volvo key fob the piece inserted into the ignition switch is about the shape and size of a USB thumb drive. After dissembling it I found the little RFID programmable thingamabob is the size of a grain of rice. In other words the fob is like 10 times the size it could be.
France is about to hit large SUVs with a 22,000 dollar additional tax.
It could be very short sighted to put all your eggs in the CUV/SUV basket.
Just means more small suvs. CUVs are cars now. It’s really just the 3box thing that’s dead. None car people have zero love for sedans.
But how would that affect the most popular CUV segments in Europe, subcompact and compact?
It would depend on their classification there wouldn’t it? CUVs may be bloated tall sedans, but as far as classification in the US anyway they are as much a light truck as a Chevy suburban.
I’m all for reclassification of that segment, make them conform to car CAFE and window tint laws.
You should look into it more, it is not just SUVs, it’s simply based on any vehicles emitting beyond a certain amount of CO2. A powerful sports car or sedan with the same fuel mileage (or CO2 emissions really) will be just as affected. The most popular C/SUVs in Europe will not really be. Further it’s not new, it apparently already exists with a sliding scale penalty, the new proposal just increases it more. If your source was Bloomberg or especially someone that rewrote and reposted it, it was a sloppy and poorly researched article that drew a lot of inferences and tried to be sensationalistic. This one explains the original rule better: https://www.thelocal.fr/20180720/france-tightens-grip-on-polluting-cars-with-stricter-eco-tax
Thank you for the clarification Jim.
Exactly. I was against dropping sedans until I saw just how car-like the new Escape was and it’s the kind of direction things i’d really like to see things keep going in.