I am currently spending time in a new Kia Sedona, courtesy of the manufacturer. Yes, there is a story here.
I recently opened one of those Recall envelopes. You can always tell them when they come, as distinguished from the envelopes that are trying to get you to trade in your current ride or to buy an extended warranty. These recall notices are going to happen to every owner of a modern vehicle, so I was not really concerned. What now, I wondered. The last one had been for weatherstripping around the doors, but I figured with the car getting some age on it it might be for something a little more serious.
It was, it turns out. There is a potential sensor failure that could result in airbags and seat belt tensioners not working properly in a crash. The interesting thing was that we were told to just wait for further instructions because Kia was (and still is) in the process of figuring out what it was going to do for a fix. The letter went on to say that if my airbag light was on, take it to the dealer immediately.
It was and I did. The light turned out to be an old, unrelated event relating to a seat sensor. The forums indicate that moving the passenger seat all the way up (as I have done a time or two during cargo-hauling operations) can pull at some of the under-seat connectors and trip a code, causing the light to glow. All fixed and no charge. But.
While waiting to get the car looked at I started reading more about the recall. There have been a couple of instances of serious injuries (although none in Sedonas) and a Kia spokesman had said during a press event that if anyone was “uncomfortable” with continuing to drive the car, Kia would provide a rental until repairs are available.
I thought about this. I am not normally a “safety wuss” but the idea of not knowing if the suspect part was failing until I was in the midst of a serious accident and then reverting back to safety level of, say, a Tucker Torpedo – I kind of was uncomfortable. And if you are offering, Kia . . .
The service manager was quite nice about it and told me he would have me in a car once I came back in. I wondered what I would get? Frankly, I expected a little Forte sedan. I figured maybe a Soul, if I got really lucky. But lo, without so much as asking they presented me with this virtually new Sedona SX.
As a long-term owner of the prior generation of Sedona (which I wrote about here) I have long been curious about how the new one stacks up. I should note that this is a much higher trim level than my own, so the differences might not be as stark if I had popped for a nicer van seven years ago. So it is a big change from what I am used to. A BIG change. Of course, for the substantial jump in sticker price it ought to be. This one is loaded with features that my own car lacks (like the pull-up sun shades in the second row). But I will try not to let these things get in the way of my evaluation.
I think that Kia (and Hyndai) vehicles could be classified into three groups. There is Early Kia: cheap cars sold cheaply. There is Middle Kia: good, durable cars that are pretty basic and sold at low prices. My 2012 Sedona falls in this group. And there is Modern Kia: Cars fully competitive in quality, style and features and sold at reasonable prices. All this means that it is hard to directly compare this new high-trim van to my older low trim version. There are just some fundamental differences and I have a hard time declaring one a clear winner over the other.
First, the plusses. This is a nice van. Very nice. I like minivans and I like this one. The steering is a huge improvement. The Drive Mode gives you different weights to the steering. I like “comfort mode” which brings back the one-finger parking of my Mopar-centric youth. Really, is there any reason to have great road feel in a parking lot? This is not a canyon-carver, it is a minivan. These are for interstate highways, suburban streets and parking lots. Lots and lots of parking lots. And parking this dude is a delight.
The van drives and rides smoothly and quietly. There is a lot less road and wind noise than in my older model. Steering is light but precise, requiring few corrections. The body is reasonably rigid, though perhaps a half-step less so than my own van. It is tough to get a really rigid van structure and this is certainly more so than the Hondas of my recent experience.
The level of fit and finish is excellent, as is the quality of interior materials. This was, to be blunt, my old van’s biggest issue. The dull interior of my van would have been what sent many mommies running away when the salesman opened the door. No longer. I am not accustomed to vehicles up in, say, BMW’s or Volvo’s price class, but I don’t think the finishes in this higher-end SX model would be out of place on one of those nameplates. A wide variety of colors textures and materials was used, many of which are soft to the touch. One mild disconnect was instrument lighting. Almost all controls are illuminated in red at night except for the two main dials on the dash and (or course) the nav screen. Although the display looks expensive I found the red less visible and more difficult to read. Or maybe because the print on the multiple buttons and controls is so small. Or perhaps I just need new glasses.
The configuration is quite un-minivan-like. This van has a large fixed center console that is chock full of storage, cupholders, chargers and ports of every kind. The designers were plainly trying to fool those in front into considering this as more of an SUV once inside.
It kind of works and I did not find that it got in my way while driving. Information is widely available, either in the info display between the two main gauges or in the nav/audio/climate screen. I liked the way most audio and climate adjustments could be made by physical knobs or buttons in addition to via the touch screen. The bluetooth pairing with my Android phone worked well and the audio system sounded very good with a variety of musical styles from classical to jazz to hits of the 80s.
This van in second-from-top SX trim has 3 zone automatic heat and air, heated and cooled perforated leather seats and pretty much everything anyone wants in a modern minivan. The only options on this unit are the built-in video system viewable from the second row (the screen may be a little small and low for those in the “way back” although we have not tested it) and the metallic black paint. With those options this van stickers perilously close to $40,000. That is a lot of money in my world, but I think it is pretty reasonable in the world of high-trim minivans.
One other note is that the three zone automatic climate control worked flawlessly, cooling this big black box down quickly every time it was asked to. This could be the most effective non-American a/c system I have experienced. And a 110 volt outlet is there for those who might need to plug something in.
And yes, it has power doors and liftgate. I am still not sold. They are great in some situations. In others (like in heavy rain) they are maddeningly slow. It might be possible that if I spent three years in this van I would miss them, but then again, maybe not.
But onto each minivan some rain must fall, and the Sedona is no different. First up – the powertrain.
This is a little hard to describe. My old Sedona displays seamless power and is always in the right gear. If you read my owner review, the takeaway was that the powertrain operation is my favorite thing about it. This one – not quite there. The engine is a touch smaller, a 3.3L direct injection V6 (mine is a 3.5L), and still a part of the Lambda II family. It seems plenty powerful, 276 bhp at 6k, 248 torques at 5200. Although the horsepower numbers are similar, the new engine’s similar torque peak is well up from the 4500 rpm in my van.
Both cars use a six speed automatic (that is really plenty of gears) and gear and axle ratios are identical between the two. This, however, is where the similarity ends. The programming on the transmission is like one of those ultra-efficient waiters in a really busy restaurant who brings each course just a few moments before you are quite ready for it. Only here it works very hard to get up into the next highest gear at the very first opportunity. OK, I understand CAFE and that MPGs in the test results are like gold nowadays. And this car will rare up and move when you give it the spurs. But make no mistake, you really need to be purposeful about it. Carrying 500 extra pounds with less torque available from a standing start makes for a noticeable change from my own van.
I have compared my ’12 to the modern version of a Chrysler 383/Torqueflite from the late 60s. As you pull away from a stop, the pedal travel is fairly short and the drill is to begin letting off the pedal to slow the rate of accelleration until you get to your desired speed. This new one is not like this. You step on it and are kind of underwhelmed. Step harder and it will downshift a step and keep going, but all the while looking at you with big puppy dog eyes asking “are you sure? Are you sure?” So this is more like my 77 New Yorker’s Lean Burn 440 coupled to a tall axle. It takes some determination to make this van get up and run. Mine does it naturally, as a default. This one makes you work a little for it. It gets the job done, just not quite as pleasantly. And yes, most normal people would likely never notice the difference.
I finally discovered “comfort mode” (note – a little research showed that you have to shell out for this SX trim to get the “drive modes”). None of the literature I have read says that it does anything with the shift points but I am convinced that it does. It seems to upshift about 250 rpm later each time and downshifts more readily when you step on the gas. Switching to “Eco” mode will move upshifts about 250 rpm sooner from normal (“No Name”?) mode. There is no “Sport Mode”, but then again, it’s a minivan. I put it into Comfort Mode and left it there. I like my powertrain better, but I could live with this one as it shifts so much more nicely than the Chrysler units of my recent experience, which constantly remind you that the transmission is hard at work.
Another minor nit is the seat headrests. As so many modern cars do, the headrests are fairly aggressive at keeping your head forward and your chin down. I tilted the seat back a bit to get a little freedom, but that moved my arms farther from the steering wheel. The Quick Start card said that the headrests were adjustable but they do not actually seem to adjust. I am sure I could settle in, but again I prefer my own van for a seating position.
Another big downside (which will not be a downside for everyone) is that the second row seats is not designed to be removed. It appears that someone with some wrenches and about ten minutes to spare could get them out, but this information is via the Kia forums and not found in the owners manual. So for mere civilians they are designed to stand up and slide forward. For those of us who like maximum cargo room, this will be a problem. I have taken my second row out quite a few times and have used that room. The loss for big bulky things is not as great because something like a big dresser will stop at the back of the front seat, leaving a lot of unused space near the floor.
Late breaking bulletin – there is an 8 passenger configuration offered in all but the lowest trim level. This configuration uses a 3 person 2nd row with a middle seat that doubles as a folding center armrest. This center row in 8 passenger vans is removable by use of quick release latches. However, in my limited experience, Sedonas are not commonly found on dealer lots with configuration.
But those of us gifted in packing can get a lot of stuff in those low “wasted areas” and this design robs us of that space. And the folded seat takes up well over half of each side door opening, eliminating those big sliders as a place for loading bulky items. Kia must have felt that this is a worthwhile compromise between the Chrysler Stow N Go system and the old Take Out Those Heavy Seats system. But I am not convinced.
The folding rear seats, however, are another story. After a weekend spent in a Dodge Grand Caravan I will say that the Kia system is so much simpler with only two things to pull instead of following the numbers 1-2-3 & 4 on the straps on the Dodge seats.
I am about 1,000 miles into this extended test and have discovered the one item that could be a dealbreaker at my house. On our old Sedona the front passenger seatback will fold down to turn the seat behind it into a sort of chaise lounge.
Relaxing view from the second row of the author’s 2012 Sedona
Mrs. JPC has become quite fond of traveling this way. Unfortunately this new version will not let the seat back fold far enough for that configuration. Perhaps a low trim model without the power recline function might be different, but I do not know. And speaking of seats, they have proved otherwise to be very comfy (and are both heated and cooled). I wonder if the high side bolster will eventually wear from entry and exit, but it is way too soon to be able to tell.
I have not driven a Chrysler Pacifica or the latest versions of the Odyssey or Sienna. This Sedona (which dates back to 2015) is now among the older designs out there. And as nice as this van it, it is not selling all that well. Through July of 2018 Chrysler remains the minivan king. In rough figures, they rank: old Grand Caravan (125K), Chrysler Pacifica (118k), Toyota Sienna (111k) Honda Odyssey (100k) and Kia Sedona (24k). The dying Nissan Quest is slightly under 5k units so its demise will not be much of a factor for the others. The Kia figure is a 46% drop from a year ago, while the that of the Pacifica is up 89% from its launch year. If I had to hazard a guess it would be that Chrysler’s one-two punch of cheap (GC) and appealing (Pacifica) may be hitting Kia harder than it is hitting the others.
So why does Kia trail so badly? Possibly the nonremovable seats, but I doubt it. Do buyers not like the large SUV-style console? Maybe. I think part of it might be the styling. I have never quite warmed up to that beltline kickup with the small rear window. The black finish disguises it on this car and this one is as attractive as any I have ever seen. But then again the Pacifica is the only one I really find attractive. Could it be that Kia is trying to sell minivans without the huge discounts that used to move units off the lot and getting resistance to vehicles with a sticker perilously close to $40K? Could be.
I hope Kia stays in the minivan market. I like this van and would strongly consider one to replace my own (if the reclining seat thing could be addressed). Mine has been an excellent value and value aside it has proved to be an excellent van. This new one is better in some ways and not as good in some others, at least for my own purposes. My 2012 is not a van that will impress the casual observer but has proved to be the Rudy Ruettiger of minivans – a hard worker whose effort overcomes some of its natural disadvantages. This new one will impress anyone who gets in for a ride. But perhaps that is not yet the minivan customer that Kia is getting into its showrooms. Which is too bad, because Kia has built a very nicely done van that should be on every minivan buyer’s test-drive list.
Hmm, very interesting. We rented a Sedona like yours a few years ago in Florida and quite liked it. Our favorite part was that the horn went “Meep!”
Your review of the new one is much like my impressions of my newer Grand Caravan, but I guess we’ll get more into that when you do a GC review.
Too bad about the middle seats, I LOVE stow and go coming from my old van with “Take Out Those Heavy Seats” system. They should have called it that.
Both stow and go and roof rack in use this weekend, fall canoe trip!
So right about the change (for the better) in Kia quality. This July just purchased a new 2017 K900 (talk about a car that is not selling) off the showroom floor and it is a fantastic car. First rate quality materials and a smooth quiet ride that will please any Brougham fan – like me. Anyone who rode in a Kia Sephia of 15 years ago would be stunned! I looked – meaning looked, was settled on the 900 to buy – and all of the Kia cars of all lines seemed to offer a whole lot of quality car for the money. Very pleased!
Yes, but…
The Kia K900 is the same car that racks up a $34,000 repair bill following a minor “left front corner hit” according to our good friends at Jalopnik. Of course, the average cost for a similar accident in a car with similar equipment is only $18,000.
For mine, the styling works, especially as the predecessor is really more a shape than a style. The dash speaks nice Audi, as did the stylist if I remember rightly.
The unremoved middle seat in the driver’s side shot looks for all the world as if it’s kneeling up, breathing down the neck of the pilot while begging to be let out. When even the pews themselves pine for freedom, Kia should have seen this unforced error. With a van, you always end up putting something too big in it, though I know that a large fridge will lie down behind the middle foldies in a 3rd-gen (smaller) Odyssey (whilst also confessing that later removal of the same was so troublesome it had me pondering it as permanent installation, advertised as a 2-seat Honda with huge cold-drink capacity, but I digress.
A larger own-goal is to provide gloopy throttle response by way of nearly the same mechanism used before. Too many multi-ratioed moderns offer sog, which invites a harder pedal push, followed by peaky excess, lift off, confusion and sog again. The old plenty-of-go followed by a progressive releasing-of-pressure-to-tame-it that you so well describe can’t be that hard to get right, surely. It is quite probable that the engine has had fiddling to meet stricter emissions since your old model, as well as having to cycle through stricter fuel usage year-on-year, and, without wholesale re-working, some of this is inevitable. But surely not as much clumsiness as you describe is needed.
Say, for reasons I can’t fathom, this exact van brings to mind a Ford V8 business coupe. ’39 model. Strange, huh.
Actually, the cargo situation is the first thing I noticed about this vehicle. Because of the front center console and the bulky middle row seats, it doesn’t do a very good job of hauling stuff. Probably not an issue for many families, but I bet it’s a problem for people who want to haul bicycles, skis, surfboards, etc.
Exactly. This makes a fabulous 6-7 passenger sedan with middle seats that are more substantial and may be more comfy than those in a Stow N Go Chrysler. As a cargo hauler it is OK but not great. Although I suspect that this conclusion will rest on an individual’s specific needs. For mine which has (until now) involved moving kids to and from college with lots of bulky stuff, this new Sedona is inferior to my old one.
I’ve been waiting for this, thanks. I find this to be the most attractive minivan design currently on the market right after the T&C in its higher trims, theT&C looks obviously decontented in its entry-level form whereas the Kia still looks good as a base model.
I was somewhat interested in this same model fairly recently but the seats kind of killed it for me. While the Stow and Go system is likely the easiest way to deal with it (and convenient on the go as needed), the TOTHS system in others really should be the default in this as well. Just moving them as this does to end up looking like a robot butler isn’t doing it. Unless they actually got out and helped you move, that is, but sadly they appear to be dormant…
How does gas mileage compare to yours?
I’m interested in how long you get to keep it, you indicated last weekend that there wasn’t any update on your own van. Hopefully they aren’t using it as their courtesy shuttle 🙂 Perhaps we will even have a one-year RCOAL update…
Oh, in regard to the lounge function – there have been a few Japanese home market cars (and likely Korean ones as well) where part of the front passenger seat folds to create a pass through for feet from the rear enabling passengers to ride as you prefer. The seat itself stays upright as normal, but most of the center back area pops open. And lastly I believe the one-level up from this van (or it may actually be this level?) the center row seats have a full recline mode with ottoman feature that would get you pretty close.
This van oh-so-helpfully calculates gas mileage for each tank of gas. I have been averaging in the very high teens to low twenties in mostly suburban driving that includes some highway and some stop/go. When I fill up the dash indicates a range of something around 425 or so miles based on recent history. I would expect that this probably gets into the 25-26 mpg range on a trip – maybe a touch better than mine that is usually good for 23-24 on the highway and around 18-19 in town.
Very interesting review — and I consider this sort of a pre-test-drive, since we will likely be replacing our 2010 Odyssey this coming winter. I’m not looking forward to that task, because none of the current minivans really match up to our current one.
Right now, our leading contenders are the Sedona and the Toyota Sienna. The Sedona certainly wins on price, but like your review noted the rear seat situation is a major downside. I remove the Odyssey’s Heavy Seats only about once per year, but when I need that flexibility, I REALLY need that flexibility, so it’ll be a tough sell to buy a van without a fully usable cargo area.
And the console is a downside as well. My wife and I both like the ability to move from the driver to passenger seat (i.e., to exit the car curbside), and the lack of a big console provides more roominess, which is welcome on long trips.
But I certainly won’t rule the Sedona out. I have a feeling that if we like the ride & driving dynamics of both the Sienna & Sedona equally, and if the Sedona’s price is enough less than the Toyota’s, that we’ll spring for the Kia, and deal with the seats & console.
Thanks for the review!
I do miss the ability to enter or exit “aircraft style” from the front to the rear. We did this in our Club Wagon all the time (especially with young kids in back) and my 99 T&C had nothing but a net bag in that space. My ’12 Sedona has a plastic flip-up “console” that blocks access, but usually has enough “stuff” sitting on it that we never fold it down. So we have become used to the lack of a pass-through. FWIW the Grand Caravan I recently drove is the same way.
Yeah, we noticed that too. Not as much of an issue these days, but when we had little kids we used to do quite a bit of “in flight servicing” as we called it.
I did have to clamber over the GC “Super Console” this week when we pulled into the driveway and there was an enormous raccoon in the tree right where my door opened.
“uh, I think I’ll just get out on your side”
The seeming abandonment of the front-to-rear pass-through by installing a console between the front seats in all but the most basic versions is interesting. This ability to get to the rear area without having to stop and open a door was a major selling point for the original minivans. I can only surmise that focus groups have found that potential customers claim they’d rather have the storage convenience of the center console. Maybe it’s due to not having a front seat passenger as much as in the past. Personally, though, the walk-through seems more useful.
Interestingly, this front seat passage has always been a major convenience in very congested urban areas (mainly found in places like Japan), with the rationale of needing to be able to easily get to other points of exit after parking in a very tight spot.
And to keep us away from slurs against shoddy Korean parts, the module involved in the recall was supplied by ZF Friedrichshafen AG, a German supplier that acquired TRW in 2015. As of yet I have heard absolutely zero about Kia’s plans for this recall campaign. At some point I may have to call my dealer and ask at what mileage they want me to bring it in for its first service?
If the parts were made in Korea then there would have been no need to have a recall because the part in question would have worked as it should. The Korean electronics industry is world class.
I am not sure if the part was actually made in Germany, I just amended my comment to reflect that TRW might have been involved, as it has come under ZF ownership in recent years.
When I first started reading this, it reminded me a bit of my Father’s ending up buying a 2001 Impala…it kind of started at an auto show, where I prompted my Dad to at least look at the Chevrolet, as he was on his 3rd Mercury Sable in a row (one was a lease, and he tended to trade cars in pretty frequently)..I think he liked it enough to go to the dealership where they proceeded to “lose” the keys to his Sable while they were looking it over as potential trade-in…so they gave him the Impala for the weekend to take home…I think it was an unofficial version of the “try before you buy” program GM advertised a few years later…and it worked, my Dad ended up buying the Impala the next week.
Of course a recall isn’t the same as you going in to check out the new model, but interesting that your loaner car was the exact model that you had in for service (to me a little bit suspicious, as they seldom seem to be concerned what kind of car you have as to what they give you as loaner)….maybe they thought your 2012 was “old enough” that you might be in the market for a replacement (or rather wanted you to think that).
Though you had some good things to say about the new one, it seemed to me you like things about your existing one, from the powertrain to the lounge seat that they either don’t offer or maybe don’t offer. I kind of did the same thing on paper with my existing car (VW Golf)…lots of things change, some for the better (powertrain, but lack of offerings with manual transmission) but some for me worse (unavailable cloth seats except on base model) such that I ended up thinking of ways to try to make my existing car last longer so as to postpone having to maybe compromise my purchase. The big selling point in new cars seems to be centered on electronics/entertainment, which is OK, but I think a car should be choosen on it’s own merits, not as a container for whatever the latest electronic trend that’s available the year you purchase it…to me the quickest thing to become obsolete on it.
My own theory on the Sedona-as-rental was that the dealership found a way to make some money on a slow-selling vehicle at the end of the model year by using it as a loaner with Kia paying the tab. Or maybe I’m just cynical. Or, perhaps Kia’s policy on what is (probably) a federally mandated rental from a safety recall with (as yet) no fix is to offer a similar model to what the owner has, so that they do not get in trouble with regulators for appearing to penalize owners who seek the rental. Just a couple of uneducated theories.
I like what Kia and Hyundai have done. Those crappy cars that almost bounced them out of the market did help them get better and after a lot of soul searching Kia and Hyundai made the effort to make world class cars.
in 2018, they make a great product and there is no reason to not cross shop them when looking for a vehicle (Of course in my mind there is no reason to buy a Toyota in 2018 when every other car is just as reliable)
Thanks for helping keep me in the loop on current minivans. They’ve come a long way since our ’92 GC.
Yes, with that higher torque peak and more weight but no change in the gearing, this new one is bound to feel a bit more sluggish off the line. Here’s where an extra gear or two really could come in handy, as long as its well managed.
These recall notices are going to happen to every owner of a modern vehicle, so I was not really concerned.
Haven’t had one since the Forester back in the early aughts. None for xB (almost 15 years old now) and none for the TSX or Promaster.
“Haven’t had one since the Forester back in the early aughts. None for xB (almost 15 years old now) and none for the TSX or Promaster.”
You have lived a charmed life! Both my Honda and my Kia have had 2 or 3 each, but were mostly for niggling things like a piece of plastic to keep moisture out of the power window switch on the Fit and (most oddly) installation of redesigned weather seals around the front doors on my Sedona. With your newest vehicle being a product of FCA, I suspect you will get one sooner or later. 🙂
Agreed on the recall notices. Only one on the VW and that was for a Takata airbag, so it’s hardly unique in that regard. None on my old Thunderbird I bought new nor on the wife’s Escort she also bought new.
Personally, my family has been lucky too, not having had one since my mom’s 1999 Grand Cherokee I believe, but with the ever increasing amount of technology AND automakers being more proactive about little things, recalls are more common.
At MINI we had either recalls or stop sales on models very frequently. It was usually for small, non-life or death things, but nonetheless irksome, especially when you have to tell a client that the car they bought can’t be delivered, or tell a prospective buyer that the car they’re interested in has a stop-sale on it.
I’m surprised that the xB isn’t part of the Takata airbag recall. There was another one for the clockspring wire and a loose driver’s seat on my 2008 Yaris.
Of the vehicles we’ve bought new (or late model used) since 1993, the Corolla, Land Cruiser and Prius had one each, Forester and Tacoma (plus Golf so far, but it’s still quite new) zero. VW New Beetle .. three or four, most in the first two years.
Interesting observation regarding modern auto-boxes: the racing for high gear and the reluctance to downshift. This is really common now, and the transmission is a major factor in my purchase of a car. For example, I had a rental Cruz and it hated to downshift.
I just bought a new car (a manual wagon no less!) and the reason I didn’t get an automatic was the same as Jim states: heading for high gear and wanting to stay there!
Hyundai-Kia have made great strides, certainly compared to their products I saw in Korea in the mid-1990’s. I returned my leased Rio in April and it gave zero problems. The only problem I experienced was the dealers are very poor, at least in Canada.
I have experienced the aggressive upshifting in my stepmom’s Camrys also. Where US cars got overdrive gears and really tall axles to help with EPA mileage averages in the early 80s, today’s computer controls manage shifting of an automatic’s many gears to get the maximum scores on those tests today.
My old car seems tuned for driving and gets fewer mpgs, the new car seems tuned for mpgs – and to nobody’s surprise, does better here than my old car.
Our family used minivans as work vehicles/long haul travel vehicles and that folding seat design is dumb. The stowed seat blocks half of the sliding door opening on both sides. The great thing about minivans is you can load and unload from three sides. This let’s you load from the curbside or pull things out from the side without disturbing what is in the back. Now I can keep my suitcases, cooler, and day pack right behind me and the bins of clothes and Ikea purchases further back. This seems trivial but on 1100 mile trips access to snacks and drinks is key. Being able to load potting soil and wood chips right to the wheelbarrow on the curb is so nice.
I took a look at these when they first came out, but I’m surprised to see that it was in 2015!
It’s a really nice looking van, inside and out. I guess I’m a more traditional van kind of guy, the non removable middle seats were a huge turn off. And I thought for something as big as a minivan, the front seating area seemed rather crowded, but maybe that had to do with the console.
On a related tangent, when will we stop calling these vehicles minivans?
I did not have the opportunity to drive one, but seeing as how the HP and TQ peaks are so high, I don’t think I would like driving it that much. Old and cranky as it is, my Olds produces a lot of torque at the low end that gets me away from stoplights pretty rapidly.
Good review and maybe you’ll get to keep it a bit longer!
Just another great JPC review. I particularly like the description of how Kia (and Hyundai) have actually devised a solid business model. The auto industry, now more than ever, is one of the toughest, dog-eat-dog businesses there is, and the Koreans are doing their very best to survive. They’re still not really on my radar as something I’d consider owning, but they’re getting there.
Then there’s the price. $40k for a Kia minivan? Nope, not unless there are some discounts that lower that in a meaningful way. And those fold-up second row seats really miss the mark. But I certainly understand what they were trying to do by having something that was a compromise between the uncomfortable Stow-n-Go or unwieldy removable seats.
Finally, there’s those sales figures. The fact that the over-a-decade-old (2008) Grand Caravan is leading speaks volumes. And then it’s followed by the still pretty damn new Pacifica. The Sienna and Odyssey garner lots of accolades (although I won’t buy another Honda after the front brake rotors on my new ’85 Accord had to be replaced at 10k miles, at my cost).
The one that bugs me is the Sienna. One of these days, Toyota’s competitors are going to catch up in reliability, and Toyota is going to find themselves fully in last place. They’re already there in everything except quality reputation.
When I drove a Sienna I couldn’t believe how light the steering was. Like a 70’s Cadillac.
As for the Grand Caravan, yeah, price matters. Families with 3+ kids typically don’t have a lot of cash. We looked at every van on the market, even the Transit Connect, and ended up with with a T&C primarily because it was by far the best deal.
The Sienna might have sixties-era, zero-feel, overboosted, Mopar-like power steering, but the thing is otherwise a tank. It’s definitely the least appealing minivan from a driver’s perspective.
And the GC simply has tremendous value. That means a lot for those with a growing family where money is tight. When you can still get a not-so-basic American Value Package (AVP) Grand Caravan for at (or even under) $20k, that’s a lot of people/cargo mover for a very low price. Yeah, you won’t get roll-down rear windows or privacy glass, and you’ll have to have a second person to lug out the second row bench, but at least it’s more comfortable than the Stow-n-Go seats. And you still get all the stuff that’s come to be expected in even the most stripped-down modern vehicles so it’s not like you’ll be riding around without A/C, keyless entry, power front windows, doorlocks, or steering.
The Dodge Caravan also the go-to fleet and gov’t purchase vehicle when “minivan” is the requirement. I was at a GSA fleet sale a couple of weeks ago. Of 110 vehicles, a full dozen were minivans, Every single one was a Caravan. Most of them had the Stow/n/Go so not necessarily the lowest trim level. So the sales numbers may be a little deceiving. (Well the sales number are what they are but as far as private dollars making a decision sometimes there’s a thumb on the scale…).
The stripper GC has taken over the courier/floral/printer repair role the Chevy Astro used to have. Everybody just vinyl wraps the windows and takes the seats out. Younger families will probably opt for mid level trim models or crossovers. The stripper models are for shuttling people as a taxi or school bus or moving stuff. It’s a workin’ man’s van.
That’s an interesting tidbit as the Grand Caravan’s cargo version, the Ram C/V, was discontinued in 2015 to make way for the quite lackluster Ram Promaster City (aka Fiat Doblo) to better compete with the Ford Transit Connect and Nissan NV200 small ‘city’ vans.
So commercial buyers still like the old Ram C/V and are making their own out of a strippo GC AVP. It makes sense since the GC’s cargo capacity is more substantial, as well as a much more robust drivetrain. Seems like FCA made a mistake by going head-on against the Ford and Nissan products. They would have done better to keep the Ram C/V to fill a niche of those buyers wanting a bit more in their small commercial van, but didn’t want to go full-size.
I owned a 2015 Sienna and I’m unclear what you don’t like about it. The engine and transmission were fantasic, the ride was very nice, the space and visability were top of the heap, and the turning radius was TINY, making it quite easy to manuver. I liked the steering as well. It may have been light but it was hydraulic with excellent feel.
You can be bugged by the Sienna but our 2011 Limited with all the bells and whistles has 130,000 with no legit problems (all we’ve had is one sunroof has a slow switch and a trim panel came unsnapped so we snapped it back in). Dang that thing is TOUGH. It it extremely hard to look at other cars and anticipate the same durability.
We looked at these a few years back. The Sedona was nice, but it really was more oversized SUV than minivan. The interior was the least family-friendly of any van we looked at. Kids couldn’t see out of those high rear windows, the console is a space hog, the rear entertainment system was oddly placed, didn’t like the fixed center seats, it lacked charging ports in the rear…those are just what I remember off the top of my head but there was probably more. The dealbreaker that took it off the list is that they were asking Honda/Toyota money for a Kia. More, actually, since our Kia dealer is “no haggle”.
It was good and personally I like the looks, I just didn’t see it as the equal of the Sienna or Odyssey and it lacked any financial incentive like the T&C. Since then, all the competitors have updated.
Great review! That’s a pretty upstanding thing Kia is offering to owners affected by the airbag recalls. It’s always nice getting to drive around in something different for a while, and as a Sedona and seasoned minivan owner, you’re probably the most qualified writer here to review this Sedona.
I actually had a chance to briefly drive one of these Sedonas in whatever the top trim level is with the 2nd row reclining buckets with foot rests was at the auto show a few years back. Nothing noteworthy from a driving perspective (after all, it’s a minivan), but I was impressed with its comfort and refinement, especially compared to my previous notions of Kia interiors.
As one used to more car-like interiors and of small stature, I’ve never had a problem with large center consoles, and really like the full center console. I think it gives the Sedona a less truck-like feel and honestly it’s one of those “why didn’t anyone think of it before” kind of features in a minivan.
It’s too bad that the Sedona isn’t selling better compared to competitors, but I could’ve guessed that based on the amount I see on the road. I suspect that the Grand Caravan/Pacifica strategy has a lot to do with it, as well as the fact that Kia’s Sorrento CUV has similar features and prices but is not a minivan, broadening its appeal.
I was curious how you would view these, as you are in the car business. Especially on the areas of finish and refinement, which I think Kia is doing very well in these days. When I bought my 2012 I always kind of snickered at those EX models with the chrome over the license plate – “Who buys a loaded, high end Kia minivan?” But now I think this one holds its own in this class. I see that many commenters have noted that middle seat design as a no-go for them – it makes me wonder how these would have sold with a better seat concept. Plus I think their “budget reputation” from prior years still keeps some out of their showrooms.
Gaaah! That is the wrong way to do it. Red means “danger, warning, pay attention to this one thing right now because it is very important”.
I always thought the logic of red illumination of instruments was due to the eye’s ability to adjust better when moving from red light to darkness, as opposed to other colors, such as white light. Hence, the reason red illumination is used for aircraft instruments.
It’s easy to understand how people come to believe that, but protection of a driver’s night vision is a whole different ball of wax than protection of a pilot’s night vision. Pilots flying at night fly in the dark and need to be able to see as well as possible in it. Drivers driving at night do not drive in the dark, because while there’s no sunlight, there are headlamps and dashboard lights and billboards and massively overlit gas stations and grocery stores and bright retroreflective road signs and all kinds of other light sources within the driver’s field of view. Driving at night is done in the mesopic vision mode, which is sort of in between photopic vision (in bright light) and scotopic vision (in the dark). Flying at night is a scotopic-vision task.
So the difference between red and most other colours of dashboard control and display illumination is not the determinant of whether and how well the driver can see and drive at night, though not all other-than-red colours are equal (blue is very bad). Intensity of light from the dashboard controls and displays exerts much greater effect than light colour on a night driver’s visual performance.
Yes, red light is used in aircraft because it does not interfere with maximum night vision, which (going from memory) takes 15-30 minutes to achieve. But in night driving you almost never achieve anything close to maximum night vision due to oncoming headlights, road/street lights, lighted signs, etc. So in cars it is nothing more than a gimmick.
That’s a lot of vehicle. I took a 2015ish Sedona on a quick auto show ride & drive and I was astonished at how quick the 280 hp V6 was. It also felt very much like a Volvo or similar mid luxury brand inside. Ultimately it was too much car in both size and cost and when we could we bought a Mazda5. After raising two kids into their teens in a small sedan and small hatchback a full size van or SUV didn’t feel necessary, Staying on brand, we also looked at a Kia Rondo but that was poorly packaged compared to the Mazda and didn’t handle as well. I miss the Euro style small MPV like the 5 or a Citroen Picasso. It fills a real need but doesn’t fit mainstream American tastes
I was looking for a new minivan to replace my ’08 Odyssey one of the vehicles I checked out was the Sedona. I felt the exterior styling was a mixed bag, apparently Kia is trying to make it resemble an SUV, for me that was a turn off. On the interior I disliked the center console between the front seats, it took up too much space and the non-removable 2d row seats made it unsuitable; I frequently haul dogs and a lot of related gear and I need the space.
Fuel economy-with an EPA rating of 22 mpg it doesn’t cut it for me.
Finally, when I was in the dealership, they had some type of tecno-pop music playing over the sound system; as I was only in one Kia dealership I cannot state this is the norm with all Kia dealers but I found it disconcerting. Last the on-line ratings of the Kia dealerships in my area were awful-most were like 1.5 stars out of 5, a couple managed 3 out of 5, not good. I ended up buying a 2015 Odyssey.
I love the rave reviews of an A/C system!
Living in Texas, automotive A/C always seems like a really underexploited marketing opportunity. There’s obviously no shortage of people willing to overlook efficiency to get what they want, and if Subaru can be safe and Mazda can be light and Toyota can be rugged, somebody needs to pick up the “best A/C” ball and break the bank.
Good call on effective A/C being a strong selling point in those climates with excessive heat during the summer months. Conversely, I would imagine that a good and quick heater would be preferable in the northern areas.
I think I mentioned in another forum, that on our group trip to Oshkosh last July, we had a Sedona rented from Enterprise for hauling everyone between the airport and the hotel in Appleton. I noticed the very nice materials and assembly evident from the shotgun seat. It seemed plenty lively, though the person driving was a career Navy pilot so maybe a bit more used to full throttle maneuver as we diced our way through the air show traffic.
The parking clearance thingy seemed a bit conservative as it was honking when Randy could see there was plenty of clearance. He also commented that the van seemed eager to follow the rain grooves in the highway concrete, tho my VW does the same, with both the old Bridgestones and the new Michelins.
We had 7 people in a 6 passenger van, so no opportunity to explore the flexibility of the seating.
My VW also had red lighting for everything in the interior except the speedo, tach and radio display, which are white.
Comfortable as riding in a reclined position with your feet resting on the folded down front seat back is, in an accident the body could slide under the seat belt causing some very serious injuries.
Not having easily removable center seats does seem like a step backwards. I wonder if MPG is improved in the new Sedona, with its extra weight.
I recall that someone complained recently that CC has been getting away from its mission by including pieces such as this one. Let me say that although I have minimal interest in this particular vehicle, this review is one of the most comprehensive and interesting I’ve read anywhere and I appreciate it as a valuable part of the site’s devotion to transportation, automotive and otherwise, in general. I especially enjoyed coming away with knowing exactly what it would be like to live with the Sedona on a daily basis. The description of the way modern automatics are programmed – wow, we could all write a book. An extremely thorough and well-written piece.
A good friend bought a new top-of-the-line Sorento in 2014. I think Kia had moved into the next rung of quality by that point because this is a very nice vehicle in every possible way. And the newer models are supposed to be much better – wow!
The thing I find somewhat puzzling about Kia is the proliferation of models available – it is very confusing and seems to be diluting their product identity a bit.
I had a rental Sedona for a week in Florida. This was the first generation Sedona and I had no experience with KIA until then. We drove from Fort Lauderdale to Key West and back. On the way back I looked at the speedometer and realized we were doing 90 mph. It was so smooth I didn’t realize how fast I was going. It performed fawlessly.
My only complaint was that at one point I opened one of the sliding doors and the weatherstripping fell out in one piece.
My second experience was with a KIA Amanti (2007). Once again a rental kept it for 5 weeks while working away from home. Loved it, very competent for what I needed. Complaint, both rear view mirrors tilted down when shifting into reverse. I could see the ground but not what was directly behind me.
In luxury cars, that’s a feature, so you can watch your wheels against the curb.
I don’t think the first generation gets a lot of love. I don’t have any firsthand experience with them but understand that they do not have a reputation for longevity. The second generation was when Kia began upping its game and by mid-run those were quite good vans. Syke and I are two happy owners. I missed a chance to rent an Amanti one weekend. I took a Taurus instead – in hindsight I think I made a mistake, if only to get the experience.
I read this review with great interest because I absolutely adore my ’08 Sedona SX, and really, really want to stay with the brand for the next one. But it’s really looking like I’m going to be looking for a ’14 model when the day comes.
The non-removable rear seats are a deal killer for me. Our second row seats came out of the van and went into the storage the day we brought it home four years ago. And they’re not going to be put back in the van until the day it gets traded in.
I need a van with driver and passenger seat only, but really prefer to not mess with a truck-class traditional work van. As I’m writing this, I’m starting to load up the van for the 17th century reenactment at St. Mary’s City, MD this weekend. I sutler (sell the stuff the reenactors use to do their impression), camp under period canvas, and probably will take a musket or two with me.
When I’m not doing reenactment, the wife and I are probably at Virginia International Raceway or some other track for motorcycle or sports car racing. Which means the van is our rudimentary RV.
And my van long ago replaced my pickup truck for hauling anything that isn’t dirt or mulch, or hauling a large motorcycle. Put these three together, and it means both sets of back seats must disappear one way or another.
It’s a damn shame they made that mistake on the Sedona. Then again, I doubt if Kia’s designers were considering Home Depot runs, or carrying a company worth of light artillery in their design spec.
Probably will look at Chrysler for the next one. Definitely not interested in the Honda minivan reputation, and I refuse to pay the ‘Toyota tax’ for something that’s only slightly better.
“ It’s a damn shame they made that mistake on the Sedona. Then again, I doubt if Kia’s designers were considering Home Depot runs, or carrying a company worth of light artillery in their design spec.
Probably will look at Chrysler for the next one. Definitely not interested in the Honda minivan reputation, and I refuse to pay the ‘Toyota tax’ for something that’s only slightly better.”
This goes a long way to explaining FCA’s marketing savvy and subsequent ability to stay atop the minivan pyramid. Right now, they’ve got the whole market covered, what with the value-oriented (but aged) Grand Caravan covering the bottom end, and the Pacifica being the latest-and-greatest. In yet another auto industry conundrum, regardless of who was running the company or what kind of financial shape they might be in, since creating the segment in 1983, Chrysler has always, somehow, managed to be the best at the core minivan demographic.
According to this forum you only need to remove 4 14 MM bolts and each middle seat lifts out, no wires to unplug, and has locating pins to easily reinstall, about a 10 minute job, according to the poster.
https://www.kia-forums.com/kia-carnival-sedona-2015/162097-2015-sedona-sxl-cant-remove-2nd.html#/topics/162097?page=1
Thanks for this. I had a hard time thinking that these were somehow all that hard to remove. It’s too bad this info wasn’t included in the review or in earlier comments; everyone got the idea that these seats are essentially fixed there, or very difficult to remove.
I got curious and downloaded the owners manual just now. Removal of the 2nd row captains chairs is not a procedure found there. I think the fact that one must go to the Kia forums tells us how many people will ever use this. For, what, 97% of buyers these seats may as well be welded in.
I did learn that there is an 8 passenger version where the second row does in fact come out via a quick release system that looks like the one used on my van. I have amended the text.
FWIW, I don’t think the 8 passenger version is promoted much, if at all.
Not in the manual; Who would have thought? That seems ridiculous.
I get the drift now…Kia effed this one up some. Frankly a minivan with a big console and difficult to remove seats seems silly, but presumably they thought this might attract SUV-type buyers.
That could work for someone like Syke who will take the seats out once and reinstall them only when the van is sold. For someone like me who takes them out 4-6 times a year this would probably be a no-sale. Mine take probably 2 minutes to remove and probably 3 to install. 20-30 minutes with wrenches is too much to add to a moving or hauling job that is enough of a PITA without wrenching on van seats.
The comments I have seen here indicate that this seating design was a big mistake and has kept this van off the short list for too many buyers.
I’m amused at the American predilection for calling these things minivans. Yes, I’m fully aware of the historical origins of the term, but given the size these things have grown to now there’s not much mini about them. 🙂
And, without, seat removability, not much van either, leaving it as the Kia Neither.
(I’m a Sedona shuddup now).
“(I’m a Sedona shuddup now).”
QOTD.
Terrific review.
The only advantage of the mid-row seats folding like they do (and I’m stretching it mightily in saying this) is it will help prevent cargo from hitting ones head in the event of a panic stop. Otherwise it’s a miss.
Speaking of misses, I suspect Mrs. JPC likes this van but misses hers.
So, you’re saying the missus’ van is a hit with the missus, but this van is more of a miss than a hit for the missus because she misses the hits of hers?
Potentially so. And it’s amazing what a person can accomplish when they aren’t even trying to do so.
Jason, what are you doing up at 2:49 am?
These comments are all time-stamped with Pacific Time; why Paul does that I’ll never know. 🙂
I was up early to head out for a substantial road trip to conclude a distinct personnel issue. Let’s just saw between 5:30 am CDT and 10:30 am CDT I put nearly 300 miles on an ’18 Impala.
Ah, just as I thought, Mr Shafer.
Speaking as one who has accomplished potentially nothing and been amazed at what a person I am not whilst trying hard to do so, I assumed that this is what you meant at 2.49am.
You may have a point. I actually saw this once pointed out as the reason pickup trucks are better than vans for hauling cargo since a load shifting in the bed of a pickup does not hold the potential of whacking the front seat occupants in the back of the head.
It sounded rather specious, to me, but for someone who really does do a lot of large cargo hauling, I suppose it could have merit.
KIA= killed in action
I wasn’t expecting to like it, but I love with that interior! Especially the dash. It is exceptionally good looking to me. Would consider it if I was in the market. Outwardly I like it much better than all the other newer vans. I have odd tastes, because I thought our ’03 Town And Country was genuinely pretty, especially in the almond color ours was. (When it was new before the salt ate it) The original Sienna or the 90’s Astro/Safari are about the only other minivans I could stand looks-wise, so it’s a high compliment for me to like it’s styling at all! Kia is really on a role these days. The only one I’ve ever driven was a 2014 Sorento and it was nicer than I was expecting (except kinda slow). But drove truck-like in good way. Like a 4-Runner. A friend has a 2014 Optima and it’s been excellent. So I guess I am becoming a Kia fan.
I, too, appreciate the review. A sharp looking van. And, I really like the looks of the interior. Haven’t really had the need for a minivan, but might consider one some day.
I purchased a new minivan back in 2015 to accomidate 3 small children. This van was out but the current pacifica was not. The condensers were sienna oddyssey chrysler TC and sedona.
It boiled down to simple practicality. The sienna was originally my top pic but it drove like a bus and the middle row center seat couldnt fit a car seat and i didnt want awd, eliminated.
The chrysler tc had stow n go but it wasnt enough to justify the lack of 3 seats in row 2, eliminated.
The sedona did have 3 seats in the 2nd row and i liked the styling but you cant remove the 2nd row seats and the rear visability is horrible. Eliminated.
The odyssey had the best overall package for small kids. 3 removeable latch seats in row 2, great visability and it drove like a car. It was the winner.
So i think the sedona is a sweet minivan but kias lack of marketing it and the lack of removable 2nd row seats are what holds it back. Minivans are all about practicality. Sienna has awd chrysler stow n go odyssey clever seating configs for kids sedona has styling…styling isnt what minivan buyers really care about. Gm tried suv like styling with tje chevy uplander. We know that went.
Thanks for this review!! The original concept for this iteration of the Sedona was the Kia KV7 https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/models/kv7/0/photos -which would have rocked the whole van market. They got cold feet and made this model. Overall, I think it’s pleasant and has nice features but as an owner of a bulletproof 2011 Sienna, who pulled the middle seats out the day we bought it (though we still sometimes bring passengers in the “way back”) I’d NEVER consider a van that limits what I can do with it, especially compared to all the others. Gimme SPACE!
Three more thoughts:
-Van marketers should push to call them just “vans”. The “mini” is the part with the bad connotations.
-Why of all the copying that is done in the auto industry, hasn’t someone copied Stow-n-Go?? It’s SO good.
-Van marketers are too focused on “family” and not open to models which emphasize “lifestyle”. There should be a van with jacked up Outback/Cross Country type trim and AWD (hello Toyota?) for rich hikers, campers, outdoors-y types.