(David Linge left this question as a comment, and I think he’s more likely to get help with it from you if I post it here) I am asking if anyone can give me some info about my 1978 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale. I have owned 4 Oldsmobiles from the ’70’s. On every Olds, I was able to remove the key from the ignition with the engine running. My Olds has under 50,000 original miles. I was stopped by Canada’s Finest (RCMP). The second the officer asked for my insurance, I pulled my key out to unlock the glovebox. With that, the officer snatched my keys from me and impounded my car for “Faulty Ignition”. That cost almost $400. That was me and my son’s grocery money for the entire month. Now, there is a complete mechanical inspection ordered on my car just because I can take the key out while running.
I contacted GM, and they were no help. They claim that they have thrown out all records/data sheets for all Oldsmobiles. I need someone to point me to someone who can verify that my car was indeed designed to take the key out while running.
I have Googled this for 3 weeks, and the closest I can come is some 1999-2003 models had a factory defect that allowed a person to take the key out while engine is “on”. I came across many articles with people saying they could take the key out on their 1970’s Olds. Problem is, I need factory documentation to fight this in court.
I cannot believe GM “Threw out” all Oldsmobile data. I cannot afford the inspection the nice officer gave me. I am fighting this tooth and nail, but why is there no info anywhere on “1978 Oldsmobile Key Pull-out option”? I talked with other classic Olds owners, and they could all take the key out while running. They believe it was an option offered by GM called “Courtesy Ignition”.
Why can I find absolutely no data on this? Google seems to only give results for 2000+ models.
I will lose this beauty to the scrapyard if I cannot come up with documentation saying my car was designed to take the key out while running. Can anyone point me in a direction to get some data on my car? I cannot afford a lawyer, so I will be representing myself in court.
Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated!
My chevette and numorous other GM cars from the 70s and 80s I’ve owned have done the same thing. It just wears out.
the ticket makes no sense at all… Many cars manufactured today have no key to be removed (i.e. 2015 Toyota Avalon) and use a “Start” button. The “key” can even be taken completely out of the car and it will continue running. Having the fob near the car is only necessary for starting it.
Seems your Oldsmobile has this feature… just earler.
AFAIK, no ignition lock cylinder is designed to allow the key to be removed from the cylinder while in any position other than OFF/LOCKED. However, I HAVE seen it on high-use fleet or police units where the key and/or cylinder are worn.
That is not true, my Grandmother’s 1950 Buick was designed so the key could be removed in the on position. I think that this was to allow access to the trunk while the engine was running (only one key for ignition, doors, trunk…).
But the 1978 Olds probably should not allow the key to be removed, although I don’t know that this is a bad thing.
GM cars had allowed keys to be removed while running, but I think that stopped once the ignition was moved to the column in 1969. I drove a lot of GM cars of the 70s and 80s and never saw one where the key would come out while the engine was running. If I had to guess, I would go with JohnE and say that it’s a “feature” that comes from age and wear.
> I think that stopped once the ignition was moved to the column in 1969.
That’s my recollection, too.
My experience matches the emerging consensus in the comments here. The column-mounted cylinders could get pretty loosey-goosey over time, but only the earlier dash-mounted cylinders were designed to let you pull out the key.
That doesn’t justify your Mountie friend going all Barney Fife on you. Sorry to hear he’s caused you such a headache. Not sure how the courts work north of the border, but if you can bring a receipt for the repair to your court date, maybe the judge will take pity on you and forgive or at least reduce the fine. My experience with traffic court in Virginia says, down here at least, that wouldn’t be unusual.
I also agree that a junkyard replacement is your best bet for an affordable swap. Since the rectangular key only works the ignition, you’ll be able to keep using the same oval key for doors, trunk and glovebox.
I doubt the bill would help much.
I’ve never changed an Oldsmobile lock cylinder (Never even owned an Olds), but I’ve changed two lock cylinders- one on a 1987 Chevrolet truck and one on a 1986 Dodge truck. The parts on the Chevrolet likely interchange with Oldsmobiles. But, the ignition lock cylinders were less than $20.
No, my 1990 TransSport is that way. It could be that it has to be in the Off position, not On, to be removed, but once removed you can start and drive and turn it off all without the key as long as you don’t turn it to Off. I think it is actually removable in the On position, but it’s parked down the block and it’s pouring out so I can’t try it out!
Many 1936 – 1965 GM Briggs & Stratton ignition locks had 4 positions: Lock, Off, Ignition, Start. On these keys, the lock assemblies had little “wings” on the rotating part, so the key could be removed, and the car started and stopped without the key. Only when the switch was turned to the LOCK position did the unit lock. It then required the key to unlock it.
The above info is [as I remember it] from the Curtis Key Co manual for changing automotive locks and making Curtis keys. When I first read about this, I went right out to my 1963 Chevy Impala convertible and checked to see if it was true. I had never attempted to remove the key while using the car, and I was surprised to see the key could indeed be removed with the car running.
I don’t know which GM cars had this feature, or if it was an option. I welcome anyone familiar with the situation to add their 2 cents.
Bingo.
No key is designed to be removed from the ignition when in the ACC or ON position. IIRC, there is a DOT standard that requires this. Any automotive engineer should be able to elaborate further on this.
Since GM keys of that era are/were single cut, repeated use over time will wear the key out to the point where the rather flimsy key can be pulled out with little resistance. Today’s keys are pretty much all double cut (and beefier), so the likelihood of wearing out to the point of failure is reduced (though not eliminated entirely).
Happened on my 85 LeSabre, and many of my friends’ GM built vehicles from ~1970-1997. The fix for the 78 Olds is pretty easy: basically you just pull the wheel and remove the torx screw to disengage the ignition cylinder from the ignition rod. A replacement tumbler with keys was about $15 about 10 years ago and I would wager it hasn’t really changed much since then.
Source: I’m an engineer, former mechanic and worked on many beat-up and well loved GM vehicles.
Sorry but the lock cylinders were designed to have the key removed in any position back in the day but that was eliminated by 77.
On the 78 Saginaw column you just need a paper clip to release the lock cyl. Unfortunately it is under the turn signals switch.
It was the norm back in the day for the Briggs and Stratton (they go by Strattec now, and yes that B&S) ignition lock cylinders to be designed so that the key can be removed from the ignition cylinder when the lock is in any position. GM stopped ordering them that way about 1970. So no it should not be removable in the on position that is due to the lock cylinder being worn out.
IH on the other hand who used Saginaw locking steering columns (GM) kept ordering the locks with the key removable in any position. That is the way my 72 Scout II with locking steering column is set up. It is also the way my 72 Travelall with dash mounted ignition switch is set up. My 73 Scout II and Dump truck is set up so it can only be removed in the off/lock position.
Back when I was a kid my Dad smoked a pipe and when driving down the road his MP was to pull the ignition key out of our Impala Wagon and then our Buick Sport Wagon while driving down the road to clean out his pipe.
My 91′ Pontiac TransSport had the same issue. You could remove the key when it was already running.
I agree with what everyone else said…I think by design it should not do that, but over time, it became a “feature.” I’ve had GM vehicles from model year 1976-1995 with that “feature”
I drove them when new and you drove them when old. I think between both of us we have the answer.
Agreed. I owned a series of used (some very well used) GM vehicles from the time I turned 15 – as old as a 1946 Pontiac, and up into early 80’s vintage. All of the GM ignitions, once worn out, allowed the key to be removed. I even had some column mounted ignitions (always with the square head ignition key) that only required some form of tool, like a slothead screwdriver to engage the ignition once the tumblers had worn.
It was endemic to almost every GM product I/we owned, except for our ’86 Park Avenue Limited, which was purchased at a year old with only 16K miles.
No, like I wrote above they were designed this way and could do that when new.
No, the key should not be removeable unless in the off position. Lose the car to the scrap heap? Just put a new ignition cylinder in it, can’t be that expensive.
I always “fixed” the ignition key on my old 2 key GMs. The procedure is to put the key in the ignition, start the car then rip the key out will a quick forceful motion, then from then on you can pull the key out once the car is started and running.
That was the best!
Over time, the teeth on both the key and inside the tumbler wear out, allowing you to remove the key at any time. Mostly all of my older GM cars did that and that was the explanation given to me by a locksmith that worked primarily on older vehicle locks and ignitions.
I’m pretty sure that our ’78 Olds does not do this. However, my dad’s 1988 Suburban started doing that once it got old. There seems to be something about the design of the GM ignition switch that is prone to this, though not intentionally.
Hindsight is 20-20 or course, but if I was pulled over, I would naturally shut the vehicle off promptly before the officer approaches, and also turn on the interior lights if at night. If you had, the police officer wouldn’t have even discovered this peculiarity of your car.
I think your best bet at this point is to see if you can have the charge overturned. If you were actually written-up for “faulty ignition”, look at the actual law (available online) to see if that is actually a chargeable offense in your province, and whether being able to remove the key while the ignition is in the ON position constitutes “faulty ignition”.
A police officer is authorized to perform a roadside safety inspection on a vehicle. You don’t say what province you’re in, but in Ontario the requirements to pass a vehicle safety inspection don’t say anything about this.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900611_e.htm
Good luck!
Good points. I think it is a loser to argue “this is the way it’s supposed to be”, so your next argument should be that this issue does not come under the applicable law. If this is a safety inspection, I would question whether your removable key poses any kind of threat to anyone’s safety. But, as BOC says, you need to check your local laws.
That’s what I was thinking too. Although I’d imagine it would have to be able to be shut off while the key was out for that to be the case, and I’m betting that won’t work.
Yes it will shut off with the key removed.
This is the way it is supposed to be.
I would think the “key pull-out option” is not searchable because it probably didn’t exist. It sounds like a worn out key/ignition which would probably be considered a faulty ignition. Sounds like you may be out of luck on this one.
Yup! Someone would have interneted such a thing by now. Most of my older Toyotas (20 or so) have had this feature entirely due to wear. Same with the driver lock. My Corolla FX door/ignition key opens my roommates 87 Toyota pickup driver door better than his actual key. Doesn’t start it, though.
My Dad’s “64 Biscayne had this feature, but this was with the old dash mounted Briggs & Stratton locks. If you turned the ignition to “off” you could remove the key and operate the ignition switch without the key. If you turned the key all the way to lock, then removed the key, it was locked and required the key for restart. I believe these types of ignitions disappeared after the switch moved to the column.
Buicks of the same period had this feature as well.
It’s just from wear and tear as others said, when a car gets this old mileage just isn’t very relevant anymore, does that have a 6 digit or a 5 digit odometer?
I currently have a 1980 F100 which operates just fine without the ignition key. The steering lock still works and all. I find it very convenient, as I consider the truck somewhat “theft-proof”. It has a 3-in the tree shift, and I expect few would know how to drive those anymore. The only way I can see the worn ignition being a safety issue, might be if the key fell out and the ignition couldn’t be turned off without it. Any worn out ignition I have encountered, work the same as far as starting and stopping the vehicle.
No way was this a feature on 2-key GMs. That’s why there were 2 keys, so that a 2nd key could be used to open doors while the ignition key is in the ignition. As others have said, this “feature” just developed on worn-out old ignitions, it was never intentional.
“It’s not a Bug, it’s a Feature!”
Sorry, but 😀
Maybe so, originally. But when everyone else adopted a single key system, GM was years behind them. Apparently their computer systems never anticipated this, and it was a gigantic effort to link the ignition and body people together.
This is probably one of the archetypical examples of GM being Too Big For Their Own Good.
Wrong.
Had the same problem on my 89 Chevy Celebrity. The small brass pin that locks the key in place is just worn out. A worn key would do the same thing, and it wasn’t a rare issue for these cars, The lock cylinder will need to be changed out, that’s all. Plenty of tutorials on YouTube on how to go about it (GM used the same steering column across all their vehicle brands back then, so it’s not an Oldsmobile specific issue). Replacement key cylinders can be had around the net for not much money.
Same thing happened on my 1985 amc jeep and my dad’s 76 IHC Scout, they both used GM steering columns. I got the spare set out (which were almost new) made a copy of the spares, and the keys stayed in.
There are several things I’ve never understood. How is being able remove a key from the ignition while the engine a crime for police to impound a car? Does being able to remove the key from the ignition truly mean there’s something wrong with the ignition?
You can do the exact same thing on my friend’s 1967 Pontiac Catalina convertible. I’ve sat in the car many times when he has taken the key out of the ignition while the engine is still running.
David,
What statue (Highway Traffic Act or similar of your province) and section/regulation is this charge?
It’ll be on the ticket the RCMP gave you.
May be best (not legal advice!!) to replace the cylinder and go to Provincial Offenses Court (which is the great unwashed) and tell the judge “didn’t realize it was a HTA violation and have fixed it at expense of $X, cannot afford the fine.”
In Manitoba the only time the word “ignition” appears in the HTA is in Section 221(1) which reads:
“Subject to subsection (4), no driver shall, without reasonable justification, permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended on a highway or park it on a highway without first having (a) stopped the engine; (b) locked the ignition; and (c) removed the key.”
Since your vehicle was not left unattended or parked, according to the Manitoba wording, it would appear you did not commit an offence. If your province has the same or similar wording, I think you’d have a good case to fight this one.
If GM threw out all data of Oldsmobile, probably you can ask about chevy impala, because I believe the ignition switch should be shared on those models.
( I drive a ’78 Plymouth Volaré but every time when I ask for tire size, or air filter I say 6-cylinder Dodge Diplomat instead )
As I recall, mid-50’s GM the ignition switch had a LOCK position, an OFF position, an ON position. (maybe an ACC, also) You could take the key out in the LOCK position or the OFF position. If you took the key out in the OFF position, you could start (and drive) the car without the key. Taking the key out in the LOCK position locked the ignition.
Yep, my 55 Chevy had the lock position at one end of the ignition switch’s range of travel. The switch could be turned through the OFF, ON, START positions without a key. You only needed the key to move in or out of the LOCK position. My 75 Buick eventually got to the point where the key was removable with the switch in the on position when the key got worn down enough. Don’t know if it would be possible to get a new key cut by VIN# from a GM dealer or locksmith, but it may be a way to get a documented “fix ” for not much money
Yes, I was assuming that without the steering wheel lock the older ones didn’t have an actual “lock” position, but I they did. Lock meant the position where if you took the key out you couldn’t move the switch without the key. It’s not about being worn out. It was designed that way on purpose, or it wouldn’t need the Lock position.
I have seen this on many older GM cars that I’ve owned.. usually on cars with more miles, but honestly your ignition socket is just worn out.. no more than that. Definitely NOT a feature, which is why you’re not finding any data on it.
I would also like to just throw out there what a complete a-hole that cop clearly is.. who does that? Why would you put someone through so much heartache and trouble, maybe just to feel important? He sounds like the kind of guy who goes home, kicks his dog, and then after a few beers goes after his wife. And how stupid is he that he can’t realize that an older car might have quirks and things about them that modern cars simply do not.. and also, how is it his business? Idiot.
I have had more than my share of “faulty ignitions” and in my experience that means nothing happens when you turn the key in either direction.
Good luck to you I hope you can fight this trouble off, but you’re not going to find anything around this being a feature I’m sorry to say.
Definitely a FEATURE.
My 1994 Chevy Blazer did the same thing. The car would be running and you just could pluck the key out and the car would continue to run. My 2000 Chevy Suburban does NOT do that however.
David, if you do decide to give up the car please don’t send it to the scrappers but list it for sale. Someone will have the time and/or money to devote to it,
Yes, my 1972 Chevele Malibu was like that. you could remove the key while it was running, and I have seen other GM cars of the period do the same. I thought it was normal. But I don’t think I could remove the key on my 78 Chevette.
Can you locate another ignition switch for your Olds? I am sure they are the me as many Other GM cars of the decade.
Shouldn’t be too hard to install…
I had a 1985 Monte Carlo that did this. The car was about 10 years old at the time. Once, I was doing power slides in fresh snow with my girlfriend in the passenger seat. She did not care for my driving so I pulled out the keys and threw them in her lap and suggested she drive instead. She was NOT amused.
Oldsmobile hasn’t been in existence since 2004, and GM has since been re-organized (right or wrong, not taking sides here) so I don’t know why you would be shocked to find that they weren’t of any help. That would be like asking Fiat-Chrysler to hand over information about your 1978 Plymouth Fury.
As for the key issue, the car is almost 40 years old. I don’t get the disconnect here.
WOW, you have to be a real dick of a police officer to write a ticket for this. I can sort of see the rational for citing this as a safety violation but I am curious as to why he stopped there and didn’t get supercop on you and “hyper inspect” every inch of your car.
Your car is 35 years old and an example of a dead brand….and you are surprised GM has “tossed” most/all data from the brand they killed 10 years ago?
Agree. Cop sounds like a total dick.
I have seen the ignition key removed while driving with my friend in his 1978 Pontiac. It was old and the ignition was worn.
Not worn. Designed that way.
Not designed that way. Worn.
The old part number for the ignition cylinder was #7830380. I was a GM parts guy for 25 years, but the number may have been super-ceded by now, You should check your GM dealer to see if it is still available.
You could also go to court, play reasonable, and offer to get the ignition fixed. Essentially don’t directly criticize Officer Peanuts, but show by your reasonableness and willingness to replace the lock that his solution is the more draconian/less reasonable. Plead financial hardship and that it’s an otherwise reliable collectible car.
Although, I also think that to an extent you brought this upon yourself. You never should willingly demonstrate any defect like that to a police officer. Should have turned the car off and opened the glove box like any other car.
Sorry you are living in such a nanny/police state. Good luck.
Not a defect. Not worn. Design feature on all GM cars from late 50’s to early 90’s.
My family had several 80’s model GMs that did the same.
83 S-10 blazer and Caviler my 87 Chevette and Cutlass Ciera plus an 84 Citation.
Our 87 Taurus was the only ford that did that. It happens when parts wear out.
I hope you can get it fixed cheap or the judge knows old cars and throws the whole mess out.
Just checked the Rock of Auto, and the cheapest lock cylinder for a 1978 Olds Delta 88 is a whopping $8.47 Canadian. Shipping cost not included. The installation could be done by most any shade tree mechanic. No idea what a “proper” shop would charge.
WHAT an arsehoal of a cop!
He must have just had a fight with his wife/gf/bf before coming on duty that shift.
A former co-worker had a late ’70s Malibu that did the same thing. He had actually installed an ignition “kill” switch (simply a $2 SPTP toggle switch) low on the dash, so he could always be sure he could shut off the engine.
It’s not limited to GM cars either – my 95 Taurus developed the same “feature,” which I discovered when I bumped the key fob with my right knee and the ignition key promptly fell on the floor…while I was driving down the road!
I have read the Cobalt/ION ignition switches were alleged to do this. My 05 ION did it before the switch was replaced [again. The one prior to the “improved” one done this year for the recall. Don’t know if the others did it or not because it never occurred to me to even try it.
The one that allowed the key to be removed was the third one so it wasn’t that old or much used. 63,000 miles as it sits right now.
Not adding anything new here, but my mom’s ’78 Eldorado did this as well. It was probably about 8 years old at the time. She legitimately thought it was a feature, as she loved being able to leave the car running and grab her keys and run into the house to grab something she’d forgotten.
For the apparently ridiculously low cost of a replacement ignition switch (less than $25 from Rock Auto), I would express order one, fix the thing, and tell the Judge that the Cop is wrong but show him that you have purchased a replacement anyhow. Whether you get it installed before the court date or not is your call, but I would certainly leave that impression with the Judge.
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1214154,parttype,10041,a,startpage.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B1978%2BCHEVROLET
Note that the link above says Cheverolet but the page itself is for a 1978 Olds 88… Obviously the parts are interchangable.
Man, that Mountie sounds like a power-tripping idiot. He caused all that trouble not because it was right thing to do, but simply because he could. I hope he feels like a big man. And BTW, yes I could pull the key out of the ignition on my ’66 Catalina while the motor was running, no problem.
Late to the party and have to agree with the others that the key was not designed to be removed in any position other than OFF. Your post got me thinking about the GM and Ford style ignition key switches there on the steering column.
Even as a young lad I was bothered when the switch moved from the dash to the column. I understood why and just accepted it. It seemed like an unnatural hand motion compared to some of those cool easy-to-reach locations on the dash.
The next thing that bothered me were those “tabs” that your fingers actually pressed against to rotate the switch. Why did GM and Ford need those when other manufacturers didn’t? Why could Mercedes still put the key on the dash even with an interlock?
Well it finally went away and I thought good riddance. When I bought my ’86 Cadillac hobby car the strangest thing happened. I ended up loving everything about the old style switch. It was easy to reach every time from muscle memory and those tabs made the switch easier to turn than if you were just using the key. It almost felt like a luxury touch.
The lesson for me was that many of us were hard on American cars… just because they were American cars.
GM used that same ignition switch system for decades. It even turned up here in Australia.
There are plenty of vendors who can supply the parts. Rock Auto, OPGI, are off the top of my head
Those cylinders are pretty much exchangeable among full sized GMs I once put an NOS 1970 Cadillac Cylinder in a 1977 Buick Electra. Any one driving it would see the Caddy Crest on the key,rather than the “GM” logo from a “lesser” lock!
PS I knew a lady with a 90s Plymouth that had this “Keyless feature” also due to wear.
http://www.rockauto.com/ sells reprints of old factory GM owners and repair manuals. The owners manual is only available in paper format. The repair manual is available in both printed and CD-ROM versions. Get the CD version of the repair manual. It is the same thing except in pdf format and much cheaper. You can print out the pages you need.
I suspect though that you lock is worn out and not a factory feature.
I believe I remember that on the last generation of Chevy b-body police cars that it was an option to have the key be removable with the engine running. A single key for ignition and doors was available, as was having one key work for multiple cars. The ignition keys lacked the usual PASS security chip. Of coarse this has nothing to do with the Oldsmobile question.
How deep does the GM ignition switch scandal really go? A man with a 1978 Oldsmobile is charged by the police. Could your grandmother have been put in danger? News at 11.
This is a test performed for NSW roadworthy inspections in OZ removeable key is a fail, its a safety thing in case of an accident a responder must be able to turn the ignition off, modern cars have a failsafe that disables ignition upon severe impact.
With the key removed, you can still turn the “ears” on the ignition switch to shut the engine off, so there is no safety issue.
The safety issue is that you might inadvertently lock the steering with the car moving, using those same “ears”. (Ask me how I know)
Still, in the hands of a not-seventen-year-old, the risk is vanishingly small, and the appropriate response from the mountie would have been a stern “you really oughtta get that fixed.”
In Canada you leave your car running when stopped?
Add my ’82 Wagoneer to the list of vehicles with this bug/feature. It was only about six years old at the time, with fairly low mileage.
But anyway, yes, RockAuto is your friend. If you showed up in court with some kind of police document stating that the ignition was fixed, would they drop the ticket? That sucks that it escalated that quickly; even if an officer noticed such an issue here in Maine, I would imagine they would write a ‘defect’ ticket that is basically just a warning to get it fixed before a certain date.
My uncle could do this in his old 6.2 ltr diesel Suburban but he didn’t realize it until it had over 250,000 miles. That was simply worn out. He could actually twist the ignition switch with no key in it at all and the engine would fire to life.
Keyless start before it’s time. LOL
My recollection is that GM keys COULD be pulled out of the ignition before the steering interlocks were installed in 1969.
BUT when the lock tumblers wore out, you could get the same effect from a post-1969 model.
We have a 1990 Chevy van with such a worn-out cylinder and you can indeed start it without a key. But it wasn’t designed that way.
My wife’s Chrysler minivan now does the same thing, however, the key can be removed in any position. THe only problem is that if she takes it out in the ACC position, the battery gets drained. The system needs to be replaced (will probably replace the entire car and get another Chrysler minivan as it has 250,000 miles) I don’t understand why it would be an issue with the cops.
Seems it would be a simple fix; the part is dirt cheap and I don’t think those cylinders were hard to replace. My dad and I replaced one in the ’79 Malibu, and he’s not a DIY kind of guy. I was probably 12 and not much help. And we got it done without drama.
However I don’t think that’s the full issue, as a complete mechanical inspection was ordered, and that’s what he/she is fighting. And as the car is not road-legal without said inspection, that’s where the threat of the junkyard comes in. Though it would be a shame to have to junk a running ’78 Delta 88…
(Maybe you could sell it south of the border as a last resort? Lots of American states let you register a car with antique/historic plates without a safety inspection…)
Skimming through this, not sure if the OP has responded to any of these comments? I’d like to find out the poster’s location (province) at least. I agree that he’s not going to find anything indicating “it should be that way”, and could fight it on the other grounds mentioned, but once that mechanical inspection has been ordered I’m suspecting he’s SOL if any other issues are found.
BTW, my ’73 Austin Marina had the opposite problem, if wouldn’t let go of the key several times. Oh well, no biggie, swap the switch in from one of the 3 obligatory parts cars always on hand.
Have any pics of the car?
I owned 3 Caprices, 3 Nova’s, a Camaro, a Firebrid and a Corvette, all with the same ingnition as yours, and by none of tjose the key could be remived when the car was running. If it is possible on your Olds, the cylonder is worn and needs to be replaced.
No wonder the 1978-88 RWD Cutlass Supreme was the most stolen car for years.
On that same list, the 3rd gen Camaro was 2nd. Wish I could think what year that list was… probably, 1995, 1996, or 1997.
The key would fall out of the ignition cylinder of my long gone ’77 Silverado whenever I hit a bump. Never fazed me a bit. Just a GM thing.
They wear out then the key pulls out. Dash mounted ignition on 70 Chevy C10 eventually got like this. Sorry you were unfortunate enough to encounter Officer Hemorrhoids On A Gnat’s Ass.
If you have a spare key that is unworn it may not pull out except in proper removal position. A new key could have enough metal to still be held in by the worn tumblers. A dealer can cut a key from your VIN #. Not expensive, and worth a try. My spare key that was unworn would not pull out with the key on, but the worn original would. It’s possible even a cheap hardware store tracing of your old key may work, I would try that first since they are only a couple of dollars.
Most of you are wrong. Nothing is worn out. Nothing is broken.
Waaaay back in the fifties, Ford and Chryslers had ignitions that were a flat round plate with a slot for the key. You needed a key to turn it. You didn’t need any more torque because you were only turning a tumbler, just like in a door. In the early fifties maybe there was a button for start. Studebakers had a start switch that was pressed by the clutch pedal at the floor, making sure you had the clutch depressed when starting. Eventually everyone included Start with the ignition.
Anyway typically there was Off, Acc, On, Start. (It is possible that some cars had the Acc as the first position – not sure, just like the PRNDL wasn’t standard for a while.)
At some point GM cars had a round thing that turned with a raised slot in the center for the key. This included a lock (not steering wheel lock) position. You could remove the key in the On or Off position and turn the car off and restart it without the key. It could be turned because of the raised areas, obviously included for just this purpose. I knew people in the late fifties that left it that way with the car unlocked so anyone in the family could just get in and drive without worrying about having the key. If you removed the key in the Lock position you would need the key to move it.
Other carmakers obviously had to change when it moved to the column and include a Lock position, but GM cars just moved it and the Lock position also locked the steering wheel. The ears were added because of the increased torque needed to unlock the steering wheel.
I just checked my 1990 Pontiac Trans Sport. None of he key positions are marked. You can remove the key in the Off or On (dashboard lights up) positions and then turn the car off and restart it without the key as long as you don’t turn it to Lock.
1969 Pontiac owners manual, pages 4 and 5, address the new column ignition switch.
It specically says “The key can be inserted or withdrawn only when the switch is in the “lock” position.” The whole point of the new design was a federally mandated anti theft measure.
Edit -link didnt work. The book can be found on oldcarbrochures.org
My FIL’s 99 Plymouth Voyager 3.3L developed the opposite variant at around age 12 (although with only about 100k miles). As with John66ny’s Austin Marina (now THAT brings back memories), the key became impossible to remove…By this point, my FIL simply left the key in the ignition and locked the car with a different key. The Voyager had become quite ratty and decrepit after being parked outside in south Florida for over a decade, plus he had never knowingly washed a car in his life (a good man but not exactly a car guy), so the risk of theft was negligible…
I just read your sit. and comments. I drive a 1978 olds delta 88 Royale (light blue 2D) Land Yacht. It’s a 5.7L gas though.
I went out to try the key and no, it did not pullout while it was running.
I did have a Caprice classic, 1988, that did that though. It was a great wagon, I miss it a lot, held a full sheet of plywood with seats down.
The officer did seem a bit over the top but this econ. needs money. I get pulled over often, an older car or something. I’m always nice to a gun with legs.
I wish you well and I agree with the wise advice to fix it and hope for the best.
My 78 Delta 88 holiday allows for key removal while running, also my 77 cutlass. I notice that most gm cars (without) the yellow trunk button in the dash allow you to remove the key while running – my dad had a 77 cutlass supreme and the key could not be removed – it had a trunk release in the dash – It was so you could start it and let it warm up allowing you to close and lock the doors, but I think it was more likely for trunk access while running. Buy yes, most let you take the keys out prior to I think 1980
My 1990 S10’s key got thinner from use and by 30,000 miles I could remove it like that. It was enough key to work the switch but not enough to be locked in place. It did not do it when new. A common thing on older GM cars back in the day. I think my friend’s ’77 Chrysler could also do it for the same reason. Back then Ford keys were slightly beefier and double-sided and did not do this. At least not in my experience.
I just checked my 2003 Avalon with 253,000 miles and a noticeably worn key. It can do it as well, though it is a two-sided key. The second key isn’t very worn and cannot do it. My ’05 Taurus has a much bigger key and doesn’t even look worn at all. It will not do it. Having old stuff finally came in handy to learn something!
It’s pretty amazing how this particular wear-out failure was so common that a lot of people really, actually believe the key is supposed to be removable at will. It’s pretty amusing how many fairytales have been made up to “explain” this:they were all built that way, it was a special ‘courtesy ignition’ option, it was a fleet/police/taxi thing, yeah, it was if your car didn’t have an electric trunk release, etc.
None of this is correct. The cars were not designed this way. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard № 114 (Theft and Rollaway Prevention) forbids it, as does the identical Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard № 114, and that has been the case since MVSS № 114 first took effect on 1 January 1970. It stipulates (see for yourself) that:
S5.1.1 Each vehicle must have a starting system which, whenever the key is removed from the starting system prevents:
(a) The normal activation of the vehicle’s engine or motor; and
(b) Either steering, or forward self-mobility, of the vehicle, or both.
S5.2.1 […] The starting system required by S5.1 must prevent key removal when tested according to the procedures in S6, unless the transmission or gear selection control is locked in “park” or becomes locked in “park” as a direct result of key removal.
S5.2.2 […] The vehicle must be designed such that the transmission or gear selection control cannot move from the “park” position, unless the key is in the starting system.
S6 Compliance test procedure for vehicles with transmissions with a “park” position:
S6.2.1
(a) Activate the starting system using the key.
(b) [I can’t paste the actual text, because this site thinks it’s spam for some reason. Paraphrased, it says to put the gearshift in any position (other than Park) where it’ll stay without being held, whether that’s in a gear or between gears.]
(c) Attempt to remove the key in each gear selection position.
=====
There it is, folks, from the people in charge of these things. Cars wear in ways that can make them noncompliant with the MVSS requirements — walk through any parking lot and look at the clouded-up headlight lenses; those headlamps don’t come close to meeting the requirements of FMVSS 108, for example. Remove the ignition key from an old car with the ignition switched on and/or the car in gear, for another example.
Daniel, I wonder if some of the confusion comes from the older GM ignitions from the 60s (and maybe before) that were designed to allow the key to pull out. The little collar cast into the piece allowed using the car without a key at all unless the owner had turned the ignition to “Lock” before removing the key. Folks who see that feature in one GM car might assume (mistakenly, of course) that it would work that way in another.
I donno, JPC—take a look at the comments to this post; people are claiming specifically that ’70s-’80s GM vehicles have ignition keys removable at will, based on what happens (or what they think they remember) in their ’78 Olds, ’77 Chev, ’81 Pontiac, etc.
Worn out key. Seriously. It moves the tumblers but not the pin mechanism holding the key in. I’m right. Debate over! Give me my 🍪 cookie!
Dammit Daniel, stop having to be the smartest guy in the room even though you are.
I’m stressed now and will require milk with my cookie.
I’m stopping because I want to, not because you tell me to. Thpthpth! X^)
As to cookies: Elvira Kurt had words to say on that subject. Best not be eating or drinking while listening, unless you want to have to clean your keyboard and monitor.
If the lock is “worn” as so many argue, then the lock wouldn’t work at all, that simple! 😉