Last week, I asked you to say one nice thing about four Toyotas that never got much love from either consumers or enthusiasts or both. There was a twist: that one nice thing couldn’t be, “Oh, well it was a reliable car” or “They were well-built!”. That rule remains in place for this week’s edition of “Say One Nice Thing”. This week: Datsuns and Nissans that you must defend no matter how hideous, slow, rust-prone or dynamically dire they may be.
Here is a 1975 Datsun 200SX, showcasing Datsun’s unique and bold design language of the 1970s.
Oh wait, wrong photo. Here is the first-generation Datsun 200SX, looking only slightly less bizarre than the car Homer Simpson designed in The Simpsons. With its live rear axle, the 200SX was not as fun to drive as the sorely missed 510 and it certainly cost more than a similarly-sized domestic coupe. But it offered a relatively sporty driving experience, good fuel economy, and distinctive looks, perfect for those buyers who wanted a small import coupe.
The Datsun B210 was a simple car for its time. Unlike other new subcompacts arriving on the market, including Datsun’s own F10, the B210 retained the traditional rear-wheel-drive layout with a live rear axle. It is challenging being asked to praise the B210 without mentioning its reliability and quality, the two attributes that helped make it so popular. The interior was nothing special, performance was slow from an old engine design and handling was mediocre. But, in its defense, many subcompacts of the time had similar handicaps and the B210 boasted great fuel economy, a serious concern for the era. This was also one of the Datsuns, globally, that helped introduce a new generation of buyers to the brand. For a subcompact in the 1970s, you could have done worse.
One person’s “hideous” is another person’s “kinda adorable”. Personally, I don’t find the F-10 all that offensive to look at. And if you do fall squarely in the “hideous” camp, the F-10’s predecessor…
…was even more hideous. Yikes.
The quirky styling was a bit puzzling because it made the F-10 look so much like the rest of the Datsun line-up, with which it differed so significantly in mechanical layout. The F-10, known as the Datsun Cherry elsewhere, was Datsun’s first front-wheel-drive model. It was priced above the B210 but was only a couple of inches shorter in length albeit with a longer wheelbase and better fuel economy. It initially launched in 1974 in other markets but arrived belatedly for the 1977 model year in the United States, although never sold exceptionally well. Its successor featured much safer styling.
Finally, let’s jump forward a few decades. In the intervening years, Nissan (née Datsun) had cleaned up their design language and produced some very attractive designs like the 1989 Maxima and 1990 Sentra. Then, they fell off the wagon with this, the automotive equivalent of a recovering alcoholic’s nasty bender. Initially previewed in concept form, the Murano CrossCabriolet was the answer to a question nobody was asking. The relatively handsome Murano was chopped and modified to become this grotesque, high-riding, open-top crossover with poor handling, a hefty 4500 pound curb weight and a whopping $45k price tag. While nobody was clamoring for a crossover convertible and the CrossCabriolet lasted just one generation due to slow sales, Nissan deserves kudos for this incredibly poor business decision. Why? Well, because nobody had the guts and poor sense to build something like this and help make the automotive market’s variety just a little richer. As for the car’s merits itself, well… it sat four people in comfort. So there’s that, at least.
I have no doubt that I have presented Curbsiders with a serious challenge today. Go ahead, try and think of one nice thing about each of these cars, but just don’t mention their reliability or build quality. I eagerly await your responses.
Pass.
Grandma, what big eyes you have!
Headlight = taillight bezels. Frugal symmetry.
Other than the Nissan/Datsun/Infiniti groups being closely associated with Renault and even Mercedes Benz, Nissan now owns 34% of Mitsubishi Corporation. http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/12/investing/nissan-mitsubishi-renault-global-gm-toyota/
Easy answer.
In late 78 or early 79, I took my new 1978 baby blue Datsun 280Z 5 speed two seater back to the North Jersey dealer to have a noisy rear differential quieted.
They gave me a loaner B210 to use to go back and forth to my gig at the UN in NYC.
What’s so great about the B210?
It made that 280Z seem like the fastest, quietest, nicest, greatest, best-est vehicle in the world.
That B210 was so weak, so tinny, so noisy, so bad, and so embarrassing, that I fell even more deeply in awe of my 170 hp (now even quieter) baby blue rocket.
Thank you B210. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
I had a B210….something nice….I would never get a speeding ticket. I had a lot of trouble for a Datsun. On the way home from getting a new clutch, the head gasket blew. Then my Dad said he could do it, which he had done before….in the 40’s. So that went well.
Re:” Then my Dad said he could do it, which he had done before….in the 40’s. So that went well.”
Now THAT was funny! How “well” did it go? I’m curious? lol 😎
The pictures of the old Datsuns prove that these cars didn’t actually start rusting on the dealers lot. The Murano proves that poor taste in cars is not reserved for poor people. The hatchback with the cooler in it got me thinking about cold beer.
Here’s two good things:
1. I see a pillarless hardtop.
2. I see three of the coupes with roll-down rear glass. All others at least flip open.
Of course I notice that stuff, you know who I am!
The Cross-Cabriolet is for another day…
I was given, in 1993, a 1976 Datsun 710 wagon that had belonged to my great grandmother, it only had about 25,000 miles on it, and was in, technically, excellent condition. It was also turquoise with a white interior. It was not a good car, enough said.
I had a ’74 710 (4 door sedan)…while it wasn’t nearly the car that its predecessor was (the 510), not very exciting, etc, it got me through 4 undergraduate years of college parked outside in cold (Vermont) climate, only failing to start the week of the blizzard of ’78, never leaving me stranded, and only having minor problems (like ruptured heater hose). It was also the car I learned to work on cars with (back when you still had “tune ups” with points and manual timing. It wasn’t great in snow (in fact it was pretty bad), but was good enough to get me where I needed to go. My recently deceased father bought me practical gifts to help keep it going, a battery one year, a tool box another (which I still have). I can say I wouldn’t be the person I am without that car (or another with similar attributes).
So…besides being appreciative, I’ll have to say that Datsun/Nissan made decent vehicles, and also were a bit different than the “normal” Japanese car of the last 50 years…we all like some variety, and it showed that they were trying with the variations of models like the F10 and of course the 240Z…that’s what I admire, as they say, when you try, you will of course produce quite a few failures, but you are also likely to come up with some memorable ones too.
I no longer own a Nissan/Datsun, but my 2 youngest sisters really liked the 240SX, owning a total of 4 between the two of them, (which of course I had the pleasure of working on using the background I first got with that 710 40 years ago).
I had a 78 B210 when I was in college. Anything would start it, key, nail file, pull tab from a beer can etc. On a beautiful spring day while in a really bad part of Boston, I left it double parked, running, windows down and radio on, for 45 minutes. Not a soul touched it. No thieves, no parking ticket, my friends didn’t even move it as a prank. Nice little car, tough as nails and innocuous as a kitten. Got me though the Boston winters. A real oil burner though. I kind of miss it.
I can just imagine what you were doing for 45 minutes in Boston on a beautiful spring day back then. I was probably doing something similar back then…*sigh*
Not really, I had to turn in a final term paper. I thought I would be “in-and-out” but the professor snagged me in a discussion on said paper. The whole time we were talking, I kept an eye out the window trying to watch my car, my sole means of getting home.
To bad you had to hand crank it to start it.
That’s how it was back then .
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My first vehicle in 1967 was a badly rusted 1959 Ford F100 step side from Ayers AFB , it had an O.K. battery but iffy generator and wiring so I often had to push start it , not a big thing for a strapping farm boy , unless in January when there was ice and lots of it .
.
My second vehicle was a 1960 VW # 117 DeLuxe VW Beetle ~ it had a great charging system but a bad battery .
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By then I was in Sunny Southern California so I was happy it ran well and was easy to push .
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For a while I lived in a place with a drive way that sloped down from the street , I had to push/pull it up 25′ or so before being able to push it down the flat street , pup the clutch and putter away .
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Different times I guess .
.
-Nate
All of these cars make me love the 510 AND the 1200 even more. Is that something good?
I remember C&D disliked the F-10 and compared it to “those monsters Godzilla fought”. They also didn’t like the B-210, when the newer 210 came out they said, “forget the B!”
Another magazine said about the first 200SX “looks like melted plastic”.
“The Car That Fell To Earth”, Tomcatt. I still have that issue.
I’m going to play this on hard mode – I had a first generation Micra. And I’m going to say more than one nice thing!
The interior was airy and spacious, especially compared to the Fiestas and Polos it was competing with. The controls were light and accurate in operation. It felt relaxed and settled at cruising speed.
A modern-feeling car in many ways, but it rusted out from underneath me.
Edit: Oh right, I was supposed to be talking about the B210 or F10, sorry. I’ll leave this here though as I’m quite proud of being able to say something positive about this boring little rustbucket of a car.
B210 called a 120Y here I had one it was bought as a throw away to drive for six weeks around Tasmania it did that with ease clocking up 5000 kms and hardly missed a beat, Rather than just dump it we sold it to an interested party who wanted a cheap commuter as his V8 Holden wasnt so it entered the daily grind from Cygnet to Moonah Hobart in its after life, ugly they might be reliable they most certainly are.
This one is particularly tough:
’75 200SX: Gave inspiration to Mercury stylists for the 1996 Sable tail lights.
B210: Forget the Dodge Super Bee, only the B210 came as a Honey Bee.
F10: Gave car designers an idea of what could happen if they dropped acid before styling a car.
Murano Convertible: Better idea than an Armada convertible.
Win!
Nissan styling fell off the wagon before the Morono crosscabrolet, and I’d maintain the Juke is even less attractive.
That’s the nicest thing I can say in this one sadly. Those 70s Datsuns, man…. I’m too young to have experienced and found any redeeming qualities under the skin so I’m just left with the styling to judge. The 200SX would probably look decent lowered with some period mags
I had a B210 with auto and the good thing about it? I was able to trade it straight across for a 1971 Chevy 1/2 ton pick-up in great shape; which got me started in a long love affair with Chevy pick-ups; so I’ll always be grateful for that; and it made my 4speed Pinto seem fast.
I may be the only one here; but I LIKE the looks of the convertible Murano; and it looks so bad with the top up; you’ll want to drive it topless as much as possible.
Actually, I think that looks better with the top up. Looks like a pearl green hardtop with a beige vinyl roof.
My father’s girlfriend had a B210 hatchback in Montreal. After a couple of years we could amuse ourselves by counting the rust flakes flying up from the hood and hitting the windshield if you drove it over 60mph.
She replaced it with an F10, so I guess it must at least have been reliable.
Re 200SX… smooth out the front end a bit, widen the track, add better wheels, tires, all-wheel drive, and you’d have a pretty nice Subaru.
The top one is a nice yellow!
Everyone of them was shiny and smelled like a new Nissatsun at some point.
There you go.
The A and L series engines were great. Just awesome. These cars (post 68-72 510) were just shipping crates for engines. I am a Isuzu fan first,( we are talking Japanese, I am a Ford guy, domestic wise) (Chevy LUV) Toyota second ( ’70 Corona Mark II hardtop, had one, still miss it. FJ all ) and Datsun third (pickup, 510, 240Z, B210) All great rigs, and yet each has their own idiosyncrasies. None were perfect. One thing I hate. People griping about head gasket failures. The real problem was the gasket technology itself; bi-metal engines (for those living under a rock- aluminum head, iron block) the aluminum head expands at roughly twice the rate of the iron block, causing a shearing effect on the gasket. Back in the day, I had head gaskets for my LUV on the shelf; it never failed cylinder wise, just leaked oil at the timing chain cover. I could change it in a afternoon. It was never a engine design problem. Today’s Multi Layer Steel (MLS) gaskets have sent that problem to the ash can. Even Honda 50’s now have MLS head gaskets. You can get them for most engines today.
I flat out like the F-10. Definitely a unique design language, but I’ve always found something interestingly attractive about the car.
I tend to agree. I have my doubts about the wheelcovers, but that could be said of so many ’70s cars.
They would usually start.
In the early 1980s you could buy an F10, or a B210 all day long around Chicagoland for a hundred dollars, and then you could thrash and abuse them horribly for months and years, till they were just drivable enough to get you to the junkyard, then pull the plates, sell it for fifty dollars to the junkyard for driving it in, and know in your heart that you had done a service to humanity, and then go find another like the first one, and slap the plates on it and roll.
Also, it is my true belief that the F10 is a bad knock off of the Citroen SM.
You want a cheap car that you can afford to run, but still have some sportiness in? Get a Datsun 240.
Also, the older Nissan trucks are really good. They hold up almost as well if not as well as the Toyotas, and are a little larger in capacity IIRC
Someone at Land Rover has a great sense of humour (sic) by approving their own CrossCabriolet – the Evoque Convertible.
In the mid 70’s I viewed the Honeybee and its ilk as the future of the automobile in America….
This made it very easy to rationalize buying an Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce…
The B210 “Honey Bee” was a great example of how to give a strippo model personality and identity even if its basic styling wasn’t the best.
The Murano, by looking like a sloppy drunk copy of the ’51 Frazer, makes the ’51 Frazer look like a precious original artwork.
Some people say the second generation 200 SX looks pretty good wearing Japan market bumpers. I’ll let you judge for yourself.
Quite pretty cars. When the insurance industry came knocking, your government should have just said No.
The all around details look better I notice, the front end in particular, it’s like a completely different car.
The Japanese market version certainly looked better, if not drop dead gorgeous, but I have to admit the 78 Celica is a much better looking car and it would take Nissan nearly 10 more years before the 200/240 SX caught up to the late 70s Celica.
I never saw old Datsuns and Nissan’s growing up in Tompkkns County so being able to see their quirky styling “frequently” in Portland, OR sure is nice. The Murano CrossCabriolet cannot handle that poorly, can it? At least it is quirky and I have yet to see one.
I’d much prefer the Datsuns of the 70s and early 80s to the Nissans of today. They were ugly, but in a charming way. Whereas today’s Nissans are just hideous.
510 and 240’s aside, most all Nissan products were fugly. It is no wonder their pickups sold so well. Just imagine, in ’70, if GM had decided to sell Isuzu cars instead of Opals… Glad they wisely chose Isuzu’s pickup
I think the third generation F10, while losing some of it’s unique styling, at least looked pretty good. They were more European in appearance, but I think Nissan did get they F10’s look right later in its life.
The Murano CrossCab proved, if nothing else, that sometimes a class of car doesn’t exist for a very good reason.
A local TSD rally/autocross freak’s race team was called Comic Ozzie racing. He found that much like the VW bug the B210 would easily support a ton of performance mods while still looking totally innocuous.
The only guy he couldn’t routinely beat in the modified classes was a guy with a box stock ~70 Morgan 4/4, who switched from modified corvettes because they were too easy to drive fast.
I actually like the 200SX. I think it’s cool looking. I’ll take one with out the doofy racing stripes though.
The B210 is a goofy lookin car but I like it. Prefer the 2 door coupe/sedan to the hatch.
I love the F10 wagon. I’ll take one in black with a half vinyl top and those little curved bar things. (Whatcha callem?). Make it look like a hearse for “little people”
And that convertible…. Well Nissan was thinking… I’m guessing they were thinking that there was a market for people with more money than sense that would want an over priced toy that there friends didn’t have. So the nice part is that they tried….(mind altering substances I guess)
I’ve been a Datsun/Nissan fan for years and am on my second Cube. If that doesn’t disqualify me I have some nice things to say about them. They were cheap which covered a lot even if a fanboi like myself has to admit they’re ugly. They always started and seldom stranded me, ran a long time and, best of all, they were the cars folks are talking about when they talk about driving a slow car fast.
Seriously. this and your Toyota post are busy looking at things through filters developed over the past three decades or more. They were good cars then and would still get you there today even if your sense of style would be seriously compromised. The style did not withstand the test of time.
I dunno Lee, I was around when the F10 and 1st gen 200SX came out and I remember specifically thinking “Holy crap they are hideous”. What was the shocker is that these came from Datsun, home of the 240-260-280Z as well as the 510 and 810. But every Japanese manufacturer stepped off the ranch once in a while, usually when they imported a JDM model already in use. Mazda hit a few fouls, as did Subaru and Mitsubishi (quite often). For the life of me I can’t imagine someone buying a 200SX over a Celica until maybe the mid-80s.
I do like the F10 wagon though.
I also have a love/hate relationship with the Murano Cabriolet. Kind of cool with the top down but WTH with the top up. Maybe it’s that little window at the top of the rear roof. One of the early-30s hipsters at work bought one off lease cheap and he loves it. I’ve been in it a few times and have to say it’s uniquely cool.
Say something nice you ask? .
Easy-Peazy , lemon squeezy :
The tiny little four cylinder push rod engine and slush box were almost un burstable and remain perennial favorites for re powering Morris Minors and Metropolitan Nash’s .
No , not mine of course , I’m stupid that way and have learned to make the original BMC engines nearly oil tight and reliable plus peppy whilst still giving great gas economy .
Second thing : I liked the mustard yellow paint on the B210’s , so sue me .
-Nate
Re the F-10: I like hexagons!
As for the CrossCabriolet, I’d love to have a convertible that could ease down a poor dirt road to get me to a hiking spot. A Wrangler would be overkill and has plenty of negatives besides.
The first generation Cherry? A front-wheel-drive Lotus Europa!
I once dated a girl who’s girl friend had a 200sx. They were both cute.
There is a woman in town that drives a black Murano CrossCabriolet. The juxtaposition of Really Cute Blond/Murano Convertible Thing really messes with my mind.
I always thought the b-210 was so narrow it looked like an upright piano on wheels.
for an upright piano on wheels it drove not bad.
sorry…best I’ve got in me.
I quite like the styling of the seventies Datsuns. I suspect they were Nissan’s best-ever sales years in Australia.
Maybe in another forty years I’ll be able to say something nice about the other one.
I like the way the 200SX looked as Paul Newman’s Bob Sharp racing car.
The c-pillar and side window treatment of the 200-SX was totally ripped from the Kenmeri Skyline, which is not a bad thing.
My old man bought a Nissan Cherry in 1976 – it came with a radio as standard -you’d never have got that in any British car at that time.
Not sure this is considered as “nice” but the B210 and F10 were so ugly few people (willingly) bought them making it easier to find your parked car if you owned one. Both came painted in colors that did not exist naturally. You didn’t worry about banging either one into an immovable object, heck it might have improved the looks if you did.
The 200SX? Proved that unlike Toyota, Datsun/Nissan could style a sporty car that wasn’t a 2/3rds scale rip-off of something an American car company had already built. BTW these had a loop front bumper in non-U.S. markets that actually looked pretty decent. If the U.S. 200SX had looked exactly like the Japanese domestic market version, it wouldn’t have been on this list.
The Murano? Again, a fairly decent looking car but ruined by the measures used to make it unique. As a lightweight 2 door hardtop coupe….it would look interesting. As a very heavy but floppy and tippy looking convertible? Well, it’s a compromised mess. Yet, when I see one pass on the road, I think: wouldn’t look too bad if lowered a few inches.
I don’t know, the 200SX may not be a direct ripoff of an American car but there are quite a few large cribs I spot that are especially noticeable in the JDM version. From the belt line down it looks A LOT like a 1969 Cougar.
“If you can’t say anything nice, then don’t say anything at all.” How true.
So, I’ll just keep my comments to myself and try and forget the images above that hurt my eyes?
With the Murano CrossCabriolet, I can envision exactly the sort of buyer for whom something like this would — well, “make sense” is probably stretching the point, but let’s say “seem like an option.” It’s basically the classic big, non-sporting American convertible reinvented for the age of crossovers and marketing overreach. I’ve never ridden in or driven one, but I imagine if you treated it as such, it would probably be perfectly satisfactory, so long as you didn’t mind looking like you were driving a heavily varnished wooden clog.
If you were to name perhaps 3 or 5 Japanese cars that turned the UK into a market receptive to Japanese products, you’d have to include the Sunny 120Y. May be the handling ws n’t great, the styling was a bit off and engine not special, but it was reliable, it was well equipped and represented good value..
Factor in the home grown competition of Allegro, Marina, Viva and Avenger and the dealer clear out BL were doing in the early 1970s with many going to become Datsun and Toyota agents, and you can see the consequence.
The rust we didn’t about then, but we were used to it anyway…..
And the Murano Cabriolet – a warm up act for the Land Rover Evoque convertile
Given the Sunny was going up against the Marina and Allegro, how could it fail? It gives the term “shooting fish in a barrel” a whole new meaning.
I took my driving lessons and passed my test in a Datsun 120Y back in 1974, so I can’t knock it whatsoever. It had everything comparable british cars of the 70s didn’t have. Fully padded interiors, radio/cassette decks, carpets, cigarette lighter and sexy racing seats.
Just don’t mention the hub caps….
200SX: Space Age
F-10: Great Taillights
B 210: A Japanese 60 Valiant
Murano: Great Taillights
The first-gen 200 SX looked really nice in red.
Well… my brother’s B210 was heavy enough to dislodge a lolly column between two garage doors, when sliding on ice. But light enough, to NOT knock it out completely & have the entire family room above , fall completely onto it! lol
Here goes.
F10. There’s a beauty in it’s uglyness. I would drive one if I could find one locally in decent condition. Translated this means never. Dogleg 5spd shift pattern.
200sx. Pillarless hardtop. Quirky styling which was basically a B210 with an ohc engine. The dogleg 5spd swaps easily into a 510 without having to cut the driveshaft. The whole drivetrain swaps easily into a 510 with minimal fabrication required.
B210. The 2door model with the trunk was much better looking. There was a cute blond who drove one of these locally in the early 2000’s. They were both in very nice shape.
Murano Cross Cabriolet. I thought Cabriolet was some type of wine. I have never seen one.
In haiku form::
Nissan designers
Produce distinctive autos
Outside the mainstream.
You can replace the clutch in a F10 without removing the transaxle.
Same as with an old Saab 900.
If you like the looks of Godzilla, you’ll love these cars.