When this question popped into my head recently, I quickly realized there would likely be a delightfully broad spectrum of answers.
The largest displacement engine I have owned was the 460 cubic inch (7.5 liter) V8 in my 1975 Ford Thunderbird. While defanged due to pollution controls, it still pumped out a terrific amount of torque and was simply unfazed my hills of any nature.
As for operating, I briefly drove a Kenworth T-800 road tractor around my office complex one Friday afternoon. It was rated at 475 horsepower or thereabouts, so it’s likely in the 15 liter range.
So, what is the largest displacement internal combustion engine you have operated? Better still, what was it in?
Mine would be 3,673 cubic inches – a Cummins DQKAB V16 diesel with 4 turbos and 2900HP. It powers the backup generator for our office. When you shut it down, it sounds like there is a trickling garden hose somewhere – which is actually 304 quarts of oil returning to the oil pan.
Whatever was in those locos I was hostling for UP and BNSF years ago. By then I didn’t care what the specs were, where is it and where’s it going were the concerns.
EMD 2-stroke nomenclature reflects cylinder displacement:
645in³ earlier, & 710in³ now, so V16s are 10,320in³ & 11,352in³, respectively.
Had to work a bit harder for arch-rivals GE:
7FDL-16 (10,687in³) earlier, & GEVO-16 (15,206in³) now.
There are venues where one can pay to drive old diesel locos, probably not with the modern, above-mentioned prime movers. Ships have much larger diesels.
IIRC EMD was the original name for the GM diesels. Operated four GM 278 16 cylinder units that were AS (adapted for snorkel). That was not my job but had to do it until I learned it so I could earn my dolphins. I think the 12 cyl fairbanks morse actually had more displacement because of the double piston (opposed) setup. Might be wrong but they were all big and both boats were four engine/four battery boats.
The turtle wins, but then the turtle was an engineer with the Israeli merchant navy where engines like the one in the 1st pic were the norm, and something having the bore & stroke of an EMD was a generator’s engine.
Last one I worked on was a Sulzer (?) 7 cyl. 2 stroker with a bore of 90cm and stroke of 150cm (don’t quote me as it could be +/- 5cm, was a looooooooong time ago). Had about 10,000 hp and ate 25T of heavy oil per 24 hours to give the ship 16 knots cruising speed; 14 days from Eilat (Israel) to Singapore.
Jeez, you guys make my 400M equipped Galaxie sound absolutely mundane. But I did enjoy the torque when merging into traffic. Just pick an empty spot and let the pedal do the talking.
Vortec 8100 in a Silverado K2500.
460 in a mid 70’s Grand Marquis.
My uncle’s Chevy 454 equipped farm truck. It was a 1973 dually with a 4-speed and a short flatbed. I occasionally got to drive it when I stayed with them during corn detassling season, there was no shenanigans with the truck as my Uncle was a fearsome man, but rowing the long shift lever and the effortless torque were enjoyable.
Edit – I got to fly a Stearman Kaydet once for all of two minutes. It had a Continental R-670 with 668 cubes 🙂
That was such a blast I don’t even care if that counts or not..
Was that the 7 jug radial? Because if so, then that was mine too. My first stick time ever in a fixed wing aircraft was in a Stearman! The pilot who took me up let me have the controls for 35 minutes of our hour long flight. It took the next two hours or so after we landed to wipe the smile off my face.
I completely forgot about that. When I was a little kid about 6 years old, a guy operating a Caterpillar bulldozer let me up into the seat with him and gave me a crack at the controls. I think that may’ve been the biggest engine, but have no idea how big bulldozer engines were back in 1966.
And late to the party as I was with the above post Doug, I still couldn’t resist including a picture too… Below is the Stearman I got to fly, albeit in the front hole. Sadly, I could not log this hour, but it was a most memorable flight. Flying one of these was like driving a sports car compared to a Corolla or something, when compared with a typical student pilot plane – the venerable Cessna 172. ;o)
While a 460ci Ford is the largest for me yet. My dream would be something powered by the largest internal combustion engine ever to fly, the Pratt and Whitney Wasp Major R-4360 “corncob”; 4360ci, 28 cylinders, four rows of seven. The “Spruce Goose” has eight of them.
I had thought at one time there was a large P&W engine that was 4 rows of 9 making 36 total cylinders, but maybe I just dreamed that one up. I thought that was the engine on the B-36 Bomber, but again, a quick Google search will probably tell me my wild ass guess is wrong.
As to the Stearman, some of the guys that own these old bi-planes swap out the standard 7 jug Continental for a 9 cylinder Wasp Junior motor for better performance….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_R-985_Wasp_Junior
The plane I got to fly was ‘stock’, not a ‘resto-mod’, just like we like ’em here at Curbside Classic. I even think that during the nice weather, the pilot Mike uses his as a daily ‘driver’… ;o)
Ok, I looked it up… apparently [the 36 cylinder] was a Lycoming and it never found its way into a plane before the project was canceled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_XR-7755
At least your 28 cylinder P&W Wasp Major saw some sky time.
At least one dude went one better: an acro plane built from a heavily-massaged Stearman, powered by a full-house P&W Wasp from a T-6. The engine had huge compression, was barely able to idle on today’s best avgas, and described later as “done up like a Reno unlimited.”
That fire-breathing Wasp climbed like a rocket, and it would take off in barely 250′.
Just cars: I once test-drove a 500ci Cadillac Fleetwood. But at least I have a pair of 440s that I can exercise regularly (’67 Imperial and ’78 New Yorker).
With the two Mopars, I have a perfect compare/contrast pair to show the effect of emissions controls. The Imperial is, relatively, a rocket. Even at 85 mph, it has power to spare. The New Yorker, on the other hand, is gasping for breath.
472c.i.d. (1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille), Now, seems like weed whackerish!
I once drove a 500ci (8.2L) 71 Eldorado convertible. The combination of front wheel drive, massive bulk and marshmallow-soft suspension meant you had to be careful punching the throttle, as the weight would heave toward the rear like water sloshing in a bathtub and spin the front wheels in a cloud of tire smoke.
Had a summer job that involved going into the engine rooms of oil tankers. (Room is a misnomer, since it was more the size of a pole barn.) It was actually like being inside an engine. The connecting rods were yards long and ran between massive pistons and a huge crankshaft. I really can’t estimate the size, but will look into it.
A recent version–much larger than I saw–has displaces 1820 litres per cylinder.
http://atomictoasters.com/2011/10/theres-no-replacement-for-displacement/
The 440 in my ’68 New Yorker I bought for @100.00 in the early ’80’s. That’s the biggest I ever owned and operated.
I did drive a friends new Ford F250 in the late ’80’s that had a 460. It felt weak compared to the old Chrysler.
1500HP gas turbine engine in an Abrams tank.
Turbines are hard to compare against recip. engines for size, but the Leopard’s MTU V12, with the same power rating, works out to 2909in³.
Yeah I used to overhaul but not operate steam Turbines the rotors of which are 12 feet across.
I operated an EMD SW7 for about ten minutes, but when it comes to cars I think new (2015) Dodge Chargers take the cake.
Its 567-series V12 is 6,809in³, so you edged past the monster dump-truck below.
So much for the 425 V8 in my ’78 Coupe de Ville….
6456 cubic inch V16 diesel monster in the Cat 793F mining truck. 5300ish hp and fun as hell to drive. Will do 60 km/hr when unloaded, not so much when loaded with 250 tonnes of rock. Nothing beats seeing the sunrise over the mountains after a long 12 hour night shifts in one of these beasts.
Unless someone out there’s driven a Cat 797, a big Komatsu or some kind of giant ship, I think I might “win” this question. There’s a pic of me dumping a load off the side of a mountain from my union calendar but I can’t find it, so you’ll have to settle for this generic google pic.
I’m pretty sure that exceeds the displacement of all the engines I’ve operated over the last decade!
440 in a 1969 Town and Country
Biggest for me would be an 8.1 Chevy V8 in a U-haul truck (’08 or ’09 GMC Kodiak cab). Biggest I’ve owned would be the comparatively tiny 5.0 in a ’91 Crown Vic.
Have driven 3 or 4 big block Fords with displacements from 390 to 460 cubic inches, and spent a few hours a day for a few weeks behind the wheel of 2 or 3 different older Diamond T tractors pulling an empty box trailer. (Unfortunately I never got around to finding out the exact specs.)
Cessna 310 has two 470 CID engines for 940 CID.
Several John Deere tractors at 400+ CID.
F250 with 460 CID and 5-speed.
1800cc Gold Wing.
I drove this Leyland Titan bus one time and I believe it had a 7.4L straight six engine.
Biggest I’ve owned is a Dodge 360cid
6.2 l/380 cu.in. in a 1965 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III. I was allowed to glide around a parking lot. Really a pre-war car with a wonderfully smooth, silent, post-war engine.
Only trucks up to 550hp C15 Cat engines, I’m regularly in a 460hp Isuzu but from memory those are only 11 litres or so, being merely a truck driver is quite limiting for engine size.
When I worked at the service department of our local Cadillac dealership for a summer college gig, some guy brought his garage queen ’65 Coupe DeVille in for some minor work. I parked it at the body shop down the street.
That beast supposedly had the original 429 c.i. (7.0 liters for you newbs) under the hood.
I remember thinking that my ’91 Mercury Cougar XR7 (5.0H.O.) was more responsive, though the experience was still pretty cool since it was also the oldest car I have ever driven to date.
The biggest displacement engine in a car that I actually owned was the Buick 350c.i./4bbl in my ’72 Slylark (my first car in 1995).
An EMD 567C 16 cylinder diesel in a former B&O GP9. To those who don’t know EMD’s prime mover desigation s are based on cubic inch displacement… per cylinder 🙂 !
Here’s a pic of her:
Looks like an F7 or F9 B-unit behind it, with similar prime mover. Both were insanely successful during the postwar dieselization era, the fruit of Charles Kettering’s vision.
If we are talking real engines, it would be the 8L inline 6 turbo diesel in the 268 Hino I drove for work. If we are talking toy engines, it would be the 8.1L V8 GM gas pile. Complete waste of iron ore, in both trucks and boats. GM Powertrain is a oxymoron these days.
Wow ~ love those BIG engines ! .
.
I’ve only driven Caterpillar and Cummins diesel engines in Big Rigs , not comparable .
.
-Nate
Mopar 340 in a 1969 Plymouth.
Now about that Kenworth. The numbers (1,440 and 1,780) are the radiator sizes in square inches. About 15 liter engine displacement, that’s my guess, given the size and segment of the T800.
You are correct! I checked it twice and it still didn’t register.
I briefly saw that this morning and meant to check it as I knew those numbers were way to big, but I had to run and didn’t get to it. Roughly 12-15 liters is the general size range for big trucks these days.
Biggest car engine would be in a Mercedes C63 AMG. Biggest I’ve owned was a 4.0 straight six Falcon.
I guess the biggest engined truck I’ve driven was a 12 litre although I briefly drove Sterling & Hino tractor units in Australia and have no idea of their engine size.
Test drove a 1976 Cadillac Coupe De Ville with a 500 cid/8.2L V8. Own a 1975 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency with a 455cid/7.4L V8, which I operate at least every other week.
Driven some cars (a friend’s STi Limited) with highly boosted and customized smaller and far faster engines but those two are the biggest I’ve ever operated.
The Chevy 350 in a Pontiac Trans Am from the 80s is the biggest car engine. Kind of underwelming with an automatic, but it sounded alright. I have briefly operated a cabin cruiser with a Volvo truck diesel, but I’m not so sure of the displacement.
5,652 ci in a diesel-electric shunter (under supervision), stalled a Ford Essex 3 litre V6 (183ci) in a Capri twice, nearest I got to driving a car.
Cars I have driven: 394 cu. in. Rocket V8 in my aunt’s 1961 Oldsmobile, and 389 cu. in. V8 (IIRC) in my uncle’s 1962 Pontiac Catalina.
The biggest I’ve owned was the Chevy 305 in a 1977 Impala.
It’s possible the diesel engine in a 1967 White Compact straight truck I drove on private property may had the largest displacement, but I don’t know for sure.
Cat 3126 in my Safari Zanzibar 38′ RV. 439 ci, 7.3l, 300 bhp, 800 lb-ft torque. Allison World 3000 6 speed transmission (love downshifting to hold rpm above 2,200 on a long climb or speed down on a steep down grade).
Fun to drive, not so fun to fix all the stuff that breaks.
Near tie for biggest engine, both of which were my dad’s. 460 Ford in a 1977 Coachman Leprechaun motorhome. The other is a 455 Oldsmobile engine in his 1976 Apollo Tri-Hull 18 jet boat. I have towed the boat with the camper…does that count as 915 cubic inches?
The biggest engine I have owned is a Chevy 350 in a 1972 Corvette.
Gas engine will be a GMC 702 V12 in a 3 axle tractor, diesel would probably be the NHH 855 cubic inch Cummins in a 3 axle school bus. I have run an old Cat RD-7 but I haven’t been able to find out what its displacement is.
Same here. I owned a Cummins 855 cid turbodiesel in a dump truck for a few years. Great engine but total overkill in a dump truck. Its more intended for a highway tractor, pulling a lot more weight.
FWIW, when I was a kid, I would wash and detail a car for an older gent in the area. It was a 1969 Sedan DeVille, IIRC a 472 ci engine in it. I got to drive it occasionally, as he would have me pick him up at Cleveland Hopkins airport. The trips back home were a bit slower than the trip up to the airport. But, the old guy had a bit of adventurer in him and occasionally we would take the B roads back to our town. The Caddy obviously wasn’t as nimble as my (then) Fox body turbo Capri, but it definitely could handle pretty decently and had ample power to conquer Northeast Ohio’s hills. Effortless is word that comes to mind.
Later on, I was privileged to drive a Chevy 454 with a five speed behind it. Too bad it was in a 6 ton capacity box truck. When fully loaded with cut sheet paper for the printing company I worked for, it was no rocket. But man, did it sound great!
My brother’s high school classmate became one of the best fiberglass guys in Northeast Ohio back in the late 1970’s. Our families were friendly and I was allowed to borrow the garage on occasion when I needed a hydraulic lift or some other specialized tools. A consequence of working on all of those Corvettes in that tiny shop was to have to move them out of the way to work on my humble car(s). My most memorable was a 1969 427 4-speed Stingray, while I didn’t go very far, I went there very rapidly. Fortunately our family friend never found out about that one…
I guess I should add, the biggest engine I ever owned in a car was a FE series 390 with 4 bbl carb in my 1969 Ford Torino GT. No rocket, but boatloads of torque. My 1972 Olds 442 with Rocket 350 seemed to have more horsepower and about the same amount of torque. 40 less cubic inches, but a much quicker car.
Compared to the railroad and marine stuff, I’m just playing with thimbles, though.
Largest I ever operated was a 20 cylinder EMD 645. Largest with rubber tires was probably some Caterpiller or 92 series Detroit.
Operated: Ford Triton V10
Owned: Various GM 350 V8s
Not as big as some: Catapillar D375 8 cylinder 317 horsepower diesel engine coupled to a 200 KW General Electric generator on the Stmr William G Mather museum ship. We used it for ship’s power when pumping ballast or during power failures. This was auxiliary power for when the ship was fitting out or laying up and the main boiler was not in operation.
My Buick Riviera’s had the 455 CID engine. I did test drive a 500 CID 1975 De Ville. The Cessna 182 that I flew a few times was probably a 471 CID engine.
Had a 500 CID ’76 Eldo for a few years. I used it mostly for towing a 3000 lb boat & trailer. It never spun a tire at the boat ramp but the brake pads wore out quick. Since the car just exceeded 5000 lbs, it was exempt from the early years of Palm Beach county’s emissions testing program… That was cool!
Largest driven: 8.1L in a 26′ U-Haul.
Largest owned: 4.7L in my ’02 Dodge Durango.
The 8.1 sounded like a big, old truck motor, I loved it. My 4.7 was perfectly matched to my Durango, stout, and a subtle, gorgeous sounding rumble out the exhaust.
6.8l (414cid) V10 in my Grandpa’s F250 we use for camping. I love it because when you hit the gas to get up a hill it has that same throaty sound that every car with a V8 used to have.
largest in car was Cadillac 500 in a Eldorado´73, also Ford 460 in a Mark IV, but these cars were not mine, My largest owned is the Vortec 6000 in a Yukon Denali.
Largest operated: MTU stationary, 5822 CID or 95.4L. 3480 BHP. Backup power at the power plant I work for.
Most powerful combustion engine operated: Pratt & Whitney PPD4 JT4A 20 MW, dually mounted to a 45MW generator. Gas turbine backup power.
Most powerful equipment operated: 1800 MW (thermal) ASEA nuclear reactor powering a 660MW generator.
6.2L V8 in a 2007 GMC Yukon Denali (which I wrote up several months back).
FoMoCo Family 429 & 460 back in the ’60s-70s; more recently an E-350 van with the V-10 “Triton” (300+hp, and effortless torque even with all 15 seats filled).
I operated a road cleaning rig for a while it waterblasted tar bleeds from wheel tracks on the highway while it didnt have the biggest engine around it did have three in use simultaneously, 280 hp truck motor driving the truck a 160hp isuzu td six driving the water blaster and a 400 hp Detroit V8 driving the vacuum pump all loud like you wouldnt believe and it drank diesel like just pouring it on the ground but with 40,000 PSI at the heads it could cut tar like no other set up the company owned.
460 V8 in a Ford E350 15 passenger van, it was from the tail end of 460 production, a 1996 or 1997 model. Completely unloaded and with zero traction control it was an interesting (to say the least) vehicle to let a 19 year old kid lot-jockey around to make sure it was clean and filled with gas for the college teams.
When I was in the Army National Guard I would occasionally drive one of the M60A3 main battle tanks. The engine in those was a Continental air cooled V12 diesel (AVDS-1790-2A); it had a bore of 5.75 inches and a stroke of 5.75 inches for a total displacement of 1791 cubic inches. It had 750 bhp and 1575 pounds-feet of torque.
The biggest engine in a regular vehicle was my brother’s 1973 Eldorado which had the 500 CID motor; great car for road trips but pretty thirsty. Biggest engine in any car I’ve owned was the 389 in a ’65 Pontiac,.
I owned a couple of ’71 Pontiac Grand Villes with 455 cid 4-bbl back in the early ’80s. For the times, they’d pass anything except a gas station. 😉
Not an impressive answer: 3.5 litre Mitsubishi V6. Try as I might, I can’t think of anything bigger that I’ve driven. Must be the old hippie/greenie in me…
7.0 Liter V8 in a 1979 Cadillac Deville D’Elegance I bought for $500 at a hotel that rents rooms by the hour.
Did you end up selling that car? I remember seeing it over on TTAC at one point.
I’m a locomotive guy, so:
GE 7FDL-16
ALCO 16-251 (688 cu in per cyl)
EMD 16-645
Cadillac 500 in my buddy’s Eldorado
Hmm back up gen at work is a 1640 Cu in Cat I’ve run that a few times.
Ran a GE 44 tonner locomotive back when I used to volunteer at a rail museum looks like that’s 2 x 1662 cu in.
GE quarter pounder locomotive looks like it had a 885 Cu in Cummins (I know it was a cummins)
I’ve run some 11L Cummins equipped boats and some old 6v92 and 8v92 equipped ones as well.
Run a few 502 powered boats, Outerlimits and Fountain that’s likely the largest gas engines I’ve run.
The 460 in my dad’s 1972 Lincoln Continental sedan (a demonstrator bought from a friend who was a dealer; he’d sold Pontiacs before, and we bought many of those; this was our only Lincoln). Very quiet and very powerful. I believe 1972 was the first year that engine was designed to run on regular fuel instead of premium. I drove the car 10 or 20 times between 1974 and ’77, when too many issues developed (driver’s armrest falling off, for example) and it was replaced by a ’77 Chrysler New Yorker; lovely body, but the Lean Burn 440 was a real dog of an engine.
The largest displacement car I have ever driven was a Cadillac 500. The torque of that car made it immune to hills, and in typical GM fashion of the era, it loved to cruise at 65 mph. There was no hill that would cause it to downshift with the cruise control engaged.
281 Modular in a Town Car, being only 18 means I have not had the pleasure of driving as many cars compared to most people on this website
Cat 3406 in a 1988 Freightliner semi
My personal record is very modest: 350 cu.in (the 5.7 Vortec in my Tahoe) but for a European, that’s not that bad 🙂
1976 Buick park ave. Limited. My moms car in the early 90’s
455 with a Rochester four barrel carb. I miss that old barge
But the turbo diesel 6 in the old R11’s I drove for the Airforce might have been a bigger displacement
4100cc (250 Cid) straight six, runs In my Ford Falcon XB.
This is the maximun today.
For many years, was the 2300cc TD, installed In my Opel Omega A2, oe Capri II 2300, that still own
That’s a great question;
– Truck: Cummins NHC 250 (14 Litre) in a M-939 6X6 5 ton.
– Car: Olds 455 in a 68 Delta 88 (I think it had as much torque as the Cummins…..)
9.6L Volvo HD100 in a Volvo B58 bus.
Cat C15, in a D8 and 740 rock truck.
Biggest diesel engine driven, DT466 7.6L diesel in an International S1900 straight truck with a reefer body. Biggest gas engine driven, mid-70s Lincoln 460, 7.5L displacement. Largest engine owned, 92 Buick Roadmonster, 5.7L, largest 6 cylinder engine owned, 95 Jaguar XJ6, 4.0L inline six, largest 4 cylinder engine, 1990 Nissan Stanza, 2.4L.
Biggest on-road vehicle I’ve owned would be my old 7.3l Powerstroke F250.
Biggest off-road diesel would be a Cat D11T. Biggest off-road gasoline-powered vehicle would be the four-engined B-17 Flying Fortess (.3 hours, and the first entry in my logbook!).
Biggest petrol motor I have driven in the United States goes to the 8.1-litre Vortec 8100 L18 in Silverado. Biggest in Europe is the current generation Bentley Mulsanne with its ‘six and three-quarter litre’ V8 motor.
Biggest diesel motor in the US is Ford 7.3-litre Powerstroke motor. Biggest in Europe is a torquey 4.5-litre V8 in Toyota Land Cruiser (one of the best diesel V8 motors I have ever driven).
Suzuki Swift 3 pot non turbo. 55mpg at 65mph.
Alright, I’ll just go sit out back.
Operated: ’67 Lincoln Continental with a 430 or 460-don’t remember what was correct for that year. Lost the brakes coming down a large hill on Route 10 in Wayne, NJ one stormy day. Amazingly they came back right before I killed a brand-new Chevy S-10 Blazer.
Owned: My ever-fabulous and much missed 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 convertible, 390 2v, Cruise-O-Matic, black with a red interior, power white top that never operated under power, 71-ish Torino wheels, terrible single master drums, fantastic power steering, no other power options. Miss it every day. That thing hauled and got amazingly good gas mileage for what it was.
12,900 c.i., an ElectroMotive V20 645E3 engine in an SD45 locomotive.
That’s ONE locomotive. Does multiple-unit operation…several locomotives operated together simultaneously…count as multiples of that?
ElectroMotive made a V20 version of its 710 engine (14,200 c.i.), too, but it didn’t sell well to the railroads. It was still made for stationary and marine use when the company was sold by General Motors, but I’m not sure current owner Caterpillar has continued it.
JD 7810: 8.1L PowerTech I6 making around 167 hp. The 7.6 in the 8300 is both more powerful and more refined, but not as satisfying on a primal level.
Operated: International DT466 from my days in the Armored Car business
Owned: 400 CID B-Block in my ’78 Chrysler Cordoba.
Largest would be the 6.8L V10 in a Ford F-650 rental truck (also the largest vehicle I’ve operated). My grandmother’s Grand Marquis with Ford 460 was gone before I was old enough to drive.
Smallest? A single-cylinder Briggs & Stratton, bane of my adolescent lawn-mowing existence. 😉 (I suspect many of us would have the same answer for that one.)
Biggest owned: 542 stroker Cadillac.
Biggest driven, truck: mid-80’s Mack R-model concrete mixer truck, 728ci (12 litre) Mack diesel. 250HP, IIRC, 5-speed main with a 20-speed auxiliary gearbox, 24″ wheels with tube tires, steel springs all around, and a, top end of about 50MPH loaded. Unlike some, the one I drove had power steering.
Biggest driven, bus: 1998 MCI with 12.7 litre Detroit Series 60. It was 500HP and no governor from the factory, but dropped to 350HP and 75MPH after the company’s safety manager got a speeding ticket.
Honorable mention, bus: 1962 GMC PD4106 with 8V71T and 4-speed manual. I loved driving that one! Despite only 275HP, it would pace the 400HP coaches up any grade. (It was much lighter.)