Hyatt Hotel, Calgary, Alberta
Curbside Classic has a very loyal following, where we like to describe old cars and then discuss our memories of them. But what would it be like to actually have a really long, challenging drive in a true classic? Well, last weekend I had this exact opportunity.
Heading out of Banff, Alberta, my favourite place in the world!
Our subject here is a 1978 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. In my opinion, the 1977-1979 C Body Cadillac is the last of the Great Cadillac cars: one that is equipped with a real Cadillac V-8 (425 cubic inches/7 liters) and the venerable Turbo-Hydramatic 400. This was the last of the great Cadillac V-8’s that originated in 1949. It was the last Caddy in decade to have power commensurate to its status, power that came from a real, honest to goodness Caddy engine. This particular car is a survivor with 90,000 original kilometers on it. It was purchased at an estate sale in Victoria, British Columbia, in 2004, for all of $1000. People didn’t see it for what it was at the time, but I certainly did. I knew my friend was looking for one, so when it became available, he snapped it up. He then promptly jumped in it and drove it straight to Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, a drive of almost 1800 km. It took him eighteen hours.
A Grand Lady of Prodigious Thirst…..
Fast forward to 2013: my friend is going to relocate to Victoria and he needed to move some cars. His daily driver is a 2001 Acura TL, while the Caddy is a weekend hobby kind of thing. He also has a 1979 Continental MKV with a 400 hp engine under the hood, but that is for another story. Our subject car is all original, even the paint. When the car was returned in Saskatoon in 2004, it had all the ball joints replaced, as well as many other front end pieces, mostly because they were cracked with age. This is no problem, because all the parts are the same as a B-body, and thus cheap and available. A new set of Cooper whitewalls an a wheel alignment later, the Grand Lady was ready for her ordeal.
Day 1: My friend is a flatlander and not at all comfortable driving in the mountains of British Columbia, so we agreed he’s do the Saskatchewan and Alberta legs, and I would do British Columbia. Leaving Saskatoon on Saturday morning, the weather was foul. It’s been a wet and windy summer on the prairie and that day was no exception. There was a stiff cross wind; I was following in the Acura and barely felt it, but my friend was having a helluva time keeping the Grand Lady straight on the straight road. The Old Girl has aerodynamics somewhere between that of a brick and a barn door. Once the wind subsided, it was much better. The car, by today’s standards, has prodigious thirst; it was at one quarter a tank while he Acura was still well above half, in a much smaller tank. Consumption came to 20 L/100 km (11.76 mpg), at 100 km/h. The Acura, for comparison, did 8.1 (29 mpg) on the whole trip. Clearly, we have come a long way in fuel efficiency! We drove for almost seven hours that day and got a hotel in downtown Calgary, the centre of Canada’s oil industry. I felt fine but my friend was beat, so we headed off to the spa, and then dinner. The next day, I found out why he was so beat….
CPR Water Tower, Field, British Columbia
Day 2: It was the Sunday before Labor Day and it seemed half of the City of Calgary was heading to Banff. No surprise, really, since Banff is truly gorgeous. It was slow going for the first couple of hours but at least the traffic flowed. When we got to Field, British Columbia, we stopped at a funky little diner for lunch. The Caddy was moored across the street and immediately attracted a group of German tourists. I went out and did my best to describe the Grand Lady in my university German. What was really surprising was they were aware of the historical significance of the car because of its seven litre engine. We stopped to fill up the tank yet again since there is no gasoline between Field and Revelstoke. This would be a real test of the Grand Lady and in an environment for which she was never intended: twisty, windy, narrow alpine roads. And how did she do?
An Interesting Contrast
Surprisingly well for the Grande Dame she is. The first thing I noticed was she was a little low on power. This was not a shock as the car had been driven maybe 2000 km in nine years. The old GM bead style catalytic converters are known for plugging up when they sit a long time. Prairie drivers often suffer from a condition I call stomp-a-phobia, a fear of standing on the gas pedal. Of course, being an experienced mountain driver, I do not carry this fear and I immediately started gunning it any chance I got, to burn out all the crud accumulated over the years.
The transition from an Acura TL to a 1978 Cadillac is not that easy; there are 23 years between the cars and both were built for very different audiences. The main thing to get used to was the Grand Lady’s steering. Although it has real road feel, it is classic “one finger” power steering. The ratio is in fact quite fast but there is no resistance on the wheel as you enter a curve. For the first 50 km or so, I was dialing in too much steering input and then having to correct the line. This would send the soft suspension into gyrations that took an uncomfortably long time to settle down.
However, I soon got the hang of it and, believe it or not, I made that Grand Lady dance going up Roger’s Pass! I was actually passing cars, mostly flatlanders, and left my buddy a good ten minutes behind. The secret is getting the line set and then sticking to it, unflinchingly. The basic DNA in the chassis of these cars was really good and the Grand Lady had no trouble keeping up with traffic, although the Quadrajet wide open for two hours drained the tank in no time. When we arrived at Revelstoke, we finally hit a Chevron station. I told my friend to stop buying gas with ethanol in it and go for the good stuff: Chevron 94 octane, sans deathanol. The improvement was instantly noticed.
The Grand Lady and Acura Pilot Car
From Revelstoke to Kamloops, she ran better and better. Power increased and the engine became even smoother. On the straight stretches just before Kamloops, I buried the speedometer, which isn’t that much of an accomplishment since it only goes to 140 km/h. Still, the Grand Lady took all I threw at her, and came out a much more fit lady because of it. The downside is old cars like this are not as easy to drive as the newer cars to which I have become accustomed. To keep it on the road, constant diligence is needed. The steering, although fine for its day, does not communicate what is going on well, so you need to watch your line all the time and that is fatiguing.
Every great car as some downside and on these old Caddies, it’s the brakes. The car simply doesn’t have enough brake area and uses the same rotors and drums as the B-body but with at least an extra 250 kg of road hugging weight. These brakes were marginal in 1978 and they are inadequate today. On steep grades, shifting down to D2 helped a lot but failing to do so would have easily smoked the brakes out. I do realize that this car was never designed for this kind of driving, so I respect that the quality of this car actually allowed her to make the trip and survive me driving her.
Arriving at the hotel in Kamloops, I was exhausted. Driving a 35 year old Cadillac over Roger’s Pass is not the easiest task, so it was a spa, dinner and off the bed. I had to be back in Vancouver late Monday night and I wasn’t going to miss that.
Day 3
Acura TL to the Rescue
We got out to the cars at 10:30 am and the Grand Lady had a flat battery for some reason. No problem, we had jumper cables in the Acura for just this eventuality. The road out of Kamloops is very hilly, the notorious Coquihalla Highway, or “The Destroyer” as it is commonly known. Or course, now with 100% Chevron 94 in the tank, I put the pedal to the metal the whole way up. Foot to the floor, the Grand Lady could hold 110 km/h, fast for its day on these kind of grades. At the summit, she was running very nicely indeed. It seems I had unplugged the catcon as it was breathing much better.
Since I had to be back in Vancouver for a business meeting Monday night at 8:30 pm, time was of the essence. We left Kamloops at 10:30 and made it to BC Ferries Tsawwassen at 2:10 pm, very good time. The last part of the drive was mostly city surface streets and that is where the Grand Lady really showed her talent: she is a first class wafter. At speeds from 50-80 km/h, she just floats along in a serene, regal fashion. I can just imagine an old lady in a beehive hairdo wafting along in the Grand Lady. After arriving on Vancouver Island, I floored it at a stop light and she hustled right nicely indeed.
Epilog: So what is it like driving a 35 year old Cadillac across the Rocky Mountains? Well, it’s kind of like trying to tango with an elephant. It can be done but you’d better know exactly what you are doing. A less experienced driver would have found it challenging because I found it challenging! Only two weeks before I drove my own Acura from Banff to Vancouver in one shot and came out of it feeling quite fine and while I love the Grand Lady for what she is and represents, she’s a lot harder to drive. Four hours behind the wheel and I was exhausted. Things have really changed in auto design, all for the better.
The Grand Lady is back at her birthplace and Victoria will suit her perfectly. She will be taken out on the odd Sunday drive, perhaps attend a wedding or two and be pampered for many years to come. I really enjoyed the chance to really drive some automotive history and the fact she held up so well shows how good GM’s basic engineering was at that time. As a daily driver, I would prefer something more modern, with better brakes and fuel consumption. But for a weekend car, the Grand Lady is really an imposing piece of art, a symbol of a past era that will never return.
Great entry, thanks. Your experience lines up with my recollections of learning to drive in the full size B & C body GM’s of the 70’s and 80’s. My greatest shortcomings per my father were my steering and braking technique. One had to have faith in the steering rather than fiddle with it constantly and brake well before you needed to stop. My father’s 82 Park Avenue was particularly weaker in braking than my mother’s 82 Caprice Classic, now I know why.
My father also had his old 74 Electra 225 and it was much sloppier and more thirsty, but oh the torque from that big block!
I always think of these old gals when some wanker whines about how a modern Camry drives.
You know, things have changed. I drive all the new sedans as rentals as I travel for business regularly. They are are all shockingly competent cars. Tight, good driving, good fuel usage, everything. That includes a Camry. I wouldn’t drive a car like this in today’s traffic. I also don’t see many other people doing it, either.
Canucknucklenead:
Electric and other non-hydraulic power steering systems
are reversing the positive trend away from ’70s “one-
fingered” hyperboosted steering as we traverse this
century’s second automotive decade. I fondly remember
early ’80s driving arcade games – like Pole Position –
but will NOT entertain the thought of driving a new car
whose steering feels like one!
I have a feeling my next car will be much older than my
current one, with both a pressure reducing valve placed
inline the power steering system and as much Caster
dialed in as possible to tighten up her ’70s Majesties’
Request. 😀
Great story and pictures, Len! Kudos to your buddy for appreciating and caring for a pair of fine CCs. 🙂
The Grand Lady is a real looker in that color combo. When I picture “78 Caddy” I remember mostly brown or copper or beige. It’s pretty cool that she’s got the 500 CID. I would’ve guessed the 425 (but I don’t know my Cadillacs.)
She’s really aging gracefully… the water tower pic and the last pic could almost pass for 1978.
he mentioned seven liter, i believe that would be the 425. the 500 is around 8.X liters. I personally would never use metric to describe an engine of this era lol. I get pissed when my 305 is referred to as a 5 liter lol
You are correct, Sir! My bad… Hadn’t had my coffee yet. 🙂
I share the same pet peeve.
Actually, I found the Caddy as my mom was in Victoria at the time. I have known the car since he has had it and driven it regularly.
Yes, as the article states, it is a 425.
Boy, is my face red!
Pre-coffee AND in the running for first comment status on CC.
The stress was unbearable! 🙂
Actually, I just added that “425/7 liters” a little while ago, specifically because of your comment. So don’t feel bad…you weren’t that out of it 🙂
Great story, and very nice Cadillac. Your trip reminds me on one I did several years ago in a 1992 Caprice sedan from Winnipeg to the tip of Vancouver Island and back. Although much newer, the Caprice with it’s base level suspension was overly soft and lacked any road feel (which is why I always prefer the F-41 option on these cars). You description through the mountains reminds me of how the Caprice drove. Although the modern 305 TBI was no powerhouse, I did break 160 km/h (100 mph) in a couple of passes. We averaged 24 MPG (US gals) or about 9.8 L/100 km/h for the entire trip (according to my old spreadsheet records).
Keep in mind that the 425 (based on the 1968 V8 design) wasn’t the last of the old Caddy V8’s. The 368 was offered 1980 – 81 and until 1984 on the commercial chassis.
If you think a base Caprice was soft, this car is waaaaaay softer, to the point of being counterproductive. It is so soft it undulates on any rough pavement, which I don’t consider all that comfortable. Even the car magazines of the day lamented the overly soft suspensions of theses cars. However, I would imagine most of the buyers in 1978 wanted such a soft suspension as it was what they expected.
Well, it’s soft, but I’ll think same year Lincoln was way softer. Actually in the Lincoln you never could feel anyting, bad or good roads, it felt the same. The Cadillac (GM C-body) doesn’t have such an isolated and soft ride as the Lincoln from the same era.
It depends on the model. The MK V has a much firmer suspension and the huge advantage of 4 wheel disks.
I have only drove the Mark IV, and that car is like a waterbed on wheels. The Cadillac 77-79 is way much stiffer than the Lincolns. I have also driven a 1975 Continental Town Car, and that car may be the quietest and most comfortabel cars I have ever driven.
But I don’t know how the 71-76 GM C-body’s and Cadillac’s drove, I think those are more comparable to the 75-79 Continentals?
The Caddy’s of the previous generation could only be describe as ponderous in the extreme. I always liked the 1977 cars better since they were a much better size and the lost weight more than made up for the smaller engine. This car has the 2.28 rear end so it is not the fastest off the line but the torque is massive and pulls surprisingly well.
My uncle had a 1973 deVille four door hardtop and it was cool car. I drove it a couple of times and I found it so freaking huge it was like driving a truck that bounded around a lot. But once you got used to all that bounding, the cars stuck to the road not too badly. The cars were wickedly hard on fuel. The 472 in my uncle’s car could barely break 7 mpg in the city and that’s Imperial! On the highway, it would do about 11 mpg.
I had a 68 Sedan Deville with a 472 in her and she would do 17 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. Wish I still had her.
I have driven one of these Caddies, and yes I know it was softer. But this 1992 Caprice had terrible suspension very floaty and bad handling. I have a ton of seat time behind the wheel of my friend’s old 78 Delta 88 with standard suspension and it could drive circles around this Caprice. My father’s ’76 Malibu was much better too (std suspension). It seemed like to me after the 1991 redesign the base suspension was softened compared to the boxes. However, it was likely just the extra weight from the new heavier body and the poorer weight balance. My friend also put on extra soft shocks as he liked a boaty ride. I was used to my B-bodies with the F40 or F41 suspensions, so this car just felt awful in comparison. The steering feel was decent though, and the brakes were okay too, better than the late 70’s counterparts.
The Olds was indeed my favourite. An 88 Regency Brougham with FE3, 307 and 4 speed auto was, in my opinion the best of the series.
I had an ’85 Olds Delta 88 with F41 suspension, 307 and TH200-4R. Canadian emissions meant no Feedback Q-jet. It handled decently for what it was, but was no powerhouse. Rust was the only thing that kill that old girl, but it did last 21 Ontario winters.
My favourite was the 89-90 9C1’s with 350 TBI’s, decent power, good handling and I like the Caprice styling the best.
Great review! Thanks!
I have a 1977 Coupe DeVille as my daily driver here in Norway. It has 249.000 miles on the odometer and it works perfectly. The only drawback I can think is the fact that the car drinks gas like there is no tomorrow 🙂
How would you rate the ride and quietness of the Cadillac compared to the Acura?
One really cannot compare the Acura and the Caddy. The noise levels are actually quite similar. The ride of the Acura is always firm and buttoned down. The car goes exactly where you point it. In fact, I find it more comfortable than the Cadillac, but to each his own. The Caddy just bounds and porpoises all over the place and it has new shocks, too.
What a beautiful car.Never underestimate the American car industry when they want to make a fine automobile. These B and C bodies were the car to have when I was a boy. My folks had a Olds 98 in this era. That car took us all over the eastern United States in style. My Grandfather was an Oldsmobile man all his life and that 98 was a part of his funeral procession. A proud, yet sad moment. These cars will always speak to me in a great way.
They were great cars in many ways but the interior is not what I would call a luxury interior. Lots of trim pieces are the same as a base Impala and the mouse-fur is hardly luxury. The Lincolns of the era had much better interiors in my opinion.
Other than perhaps a door handle and a seat belt, please tell me what trim pieces are the same as in an Impala? Not even a Caprice, but an Impala? Does this Cadillac have the same steering wheel as a Chevette or a C10 pick up like a Lincoln?
Well, the A-pillar molding, for example, is the same, right down to the exposed screw heads. Same for several other trim pieces. Same for many front end parts, brakes, electrics……
It might look the same but does it interchange, as for brakes and front end parts, that’s stuff you don’t see, the electrics might be similar, but this Cadillac for example has a ton more electrical componentry than a 78 Impala for example.
A great story and pictures,how refreshing to see a classic car being used and not another trailer queen.Thank you Len
This reminds me I MUST visit the Rockies. Maybe even further west, to the Holy Grail that is Eugene, Oregon.
We try to get to the Rockies at least once a year. I like nothing more than tramping around with them with my wife and dog.
I’m gonna be the odd man out and comment on the Acura TL…
I was about 6 years old when these cars came out and remember my feelings vividly. They looked so modern and advanced (no pun intended). Their low height and wide track made them look extremely athletic, even more so than cars like the E39 5-Series and C5 A6. The TL also looked way more substantial than the Lexus ES of that era.
I remember the house at my kindergarten bus stop got a new one when they first came out. I drooled over it every day. I always liked the wheels like those on your friend’s gold one too. I could definitely go for one (especially an ’02-’04) as a second car, so long as it has a good transmission 🙂
+1 on the Acura comment.
Although not my cup of tea, this gen Acura were significant class leaders. Probably covered in a previous CC, but if Len wishes to contribute a new one based on recent experience, bring it on!
Someone needs to take over the Acura division and give it purpose again. How did the division that produced the first 2 generations of Legend and the Integra series, and the above mentioned TL, come to the Joker-faced abominations they offer now?
When I was last in Saskatoon last summer I saw a gen II Legend Coupe in a parking lot, and I was mesmerized by it. Simply lovely, an adjective I couldn’t apply to anything they make now.
+5! “Joker-faced abominations” indeed!
Acura is a prime example of what happens when you actually listen to the buff books instead of your customers. In 2000, the TL was the biggest selling sport sedan on the market. At a base $28,000 in the USA, they were a screaming deal for a car of that caliber and thus they sold like crazy. The buff rags constantly ragged on Acura about “generic design” and that crap the owners didn’t care about. In fact, they loved it as the cars are invisible and that “generic design” is about as reliable as any car gets.
The 2004-08 TL is the best of the lot and yet again, the mags panned it as “generic Japanese, etc” and in the next redesign they went all goofy. There as the “unique design language” the buff rags demanded. The cars drive great, especially the SH-AWD models but they are A LOT bigger and more ponderous than the previous models but the go like snot, especially the AWD ones, which are really popular with skier types who can’t be caught dead in an SUV.
A friend recently bought a 2013 TL Tech, SH-AWD, loaded for $38,000 cash. That is a screaming deal for this car, like $12,000 off. I have warmed to the toned down version a lot. I think it looks athletic.
Division? Its merely a badge glued to US models of Honda including the Legend and Integra
They are sold in separate stores, Bryce.
I’ll bet the Acura was quite fun to drive through the hills. That generation of TL came out right after I got my driver’s license at 16 and gave me hope that after killing the Legend, Acura would be cool again.
And then they had to start grafting awful beaks onto otherwise fine cars.
The Acuras of this generation are, in my opinion, excellent cars. The gold one I found at a lot in Vancouver, for my buddy’s wife to drive. It had all of 100,000 km on it when bought it. I then drove it solo to Saskatoon and that was the best drive of my life. I hit the summit if Roger’s Pass at 7:00 am and drove ridiculous, do not pass go, speeds the whole way. I liked it so much I bought one for myself soon after. These cars make really good daily drivers as they are total sleepers. They are good for an extra 20 km/h in speed traps. Totally invisible.
If I had been in Saskatoon at the time I surely would have taken you up you offer , Len.
Re the fuel economy- I realize windy conditions take their toll on economy, and the Caddy may not have been in top tune. My parents had a ’76 Ford Elite with a 460 and even that could do 21-22 MPG Imperial on trips to Calgary, carefully driven. Mind you, it was new.
I’m sure this car in top nick could have at least approached 20 MPG.
Re Stompophobia-LOL Yes that’s why I always pop a vein when I try to drive in Saskatoon-it’s like, either get moving or move over, cripes. Don’t those people have somewhere they need to be?
Thankfully, I likely will never see the place again in my lifetime.
21-22 mpg with a 460 Elite?! Are those Imperial gallons? I converted Len’s metric consumption stats to US mpg.
21.6 MPG Imperial equals 18 MPG US. I read reports in magazines where ’76 T-Bird owners were getting 15 with careful driving and expert tuning. The Elite weighs about 600 pounds less, and admittedly had a Canadian emissions tune with true duals and no Cats.
And very careful driving BTW. Not so careful driving could yield half that.
That’s pretty impressive if true. My father’s ’79 F-150 with a 460, dual exhaust and headers never broke 12 MPG (imperial), and he was a VERY conservative driver! But it hardly dropped when towing.
A friend had an F150 Ambulance 13mpg imperial normal driving 13mpg pulling a 25ft caravan with only a 351
You know, Roger, every time I leave Saskatoon I swear I will never go back but for some reason, I always end up back there again.
The place is bush-league to the extreme. What passes for a 4 star hotel is barely a Motel 6 in these parts. The only food you can get is knuckledragger kitch, frozen everything. Everywhere you go, staff is rude and surly. If you can’t make it anywhere else….
Maybe they just don’t like you!!!!!!!
Nice story, Len, and great pictures of a very nice car!
You mentioned that you were exhausted after a few hours. Why is that? Just so many frequent adjustments while driving?
This is an interesting story for me, because for more than a year I’ve been obsessed with 70s Cadillacs. It’s cool to read a real-world story about driving one. I just saw a 1977 Sedan last weekend here. A car that most people would not even notice, I thought was cool.
Do you have any more or higher quality photos of this car?
Have you ever driven from Calgary to Revelstoke on Hwy 1?
If you have, you’d understand why I was tired. It’s not exactly a flat, straight, Interstate Highway.
You know you’re getting old when cars from your mid-life are referred to as classics. A great read. A drive I try to take every year, along with the Waterton-Glacier cruise.
he mentioned seven liter, i believe that would be the 425. the 500 is around 8.X liters. I personally would never use metric to describe an engine of this era lol. I get pissed when my 305 is referred to as a 5 liter lol
Thanks for letting us ride along, Len. I’ve always wanted to see the Canadian Rockies via rail…maybe Paul will front you some petty cash to do that next? 🙂
“Chevron 94 octane, sans deathanol.”
+1. The Imp is smoother and no longer bogs when kicked down, ever since I put her on an all-Shell-premium diet. AFAIK you can’t be sure that a given station is selling you ethanol-free stuff, but higher octane at least has less, all else being equal.
I’ve found that with all old engines even if they weren’t designed for premium they tend to do better using it. Sadly for me the nearest pure gasoline station is at least 130 miles away.
Dan, Hemmings publishes a list of stations with ethanol-free gas. You probably already know this, but I just found out this year.
People are so dumb when it comes to buying gasoline. I buyChevron 94 in everything I have and I don’t care what it costs. It is worth it due to the extra performance and the fact I won’t be replacing injectors, fuel lines and pumps.
Besides, since I drive old cars, I don’t care what the gas costs.
“Deathanol”, “People are so dumb when it comes to buying gasoline”. Touche. I’ve never had a problem with ethanol and I’ve driven hundreds of thousands of miles. Not one issue. NONE. So quit your false advertising, as YMMV. BRING ON THE CORN FUEL, IT WORKS GREAT.
Are you using it in an older car or in your Camry? Ethanol DOES damage older cars fuel systems, its a fact.
Camry? Spare me.
And no. E15 has the possibility of causing problems on a very limited target when driven a hundred thousand miles on antiquated engines. E10 which has always been most common (and 10% being maximum, which it never is) really isn’t a problem! I wish everyone would quit their bemoaning! Lots of ignorance and lies spread by “my dad’s a mechanic, he would know!”–B.S.!
http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Ethanol.html
The old car techs of Moss Motors, among others, make more sense than you do.
Hey, you want to use ethanol, fill ‘er up!
I choose not to.
Troll
Nice post and a clear idea of what it is like to drive a car of the vintage of that Grand Old Lady. Mind you I’m well aware it’s about 36 Y.O. now, but with lowish miles, I’m sure it’s still fairly tight, for a Cadillac in things like the shocks, and having all new steering parts installed.
Still though, a car that was built to be a boulevard cruiser with its soft, wallowing suspension, it’s great to read about it doing the drive you just did, and doing more than all right.
It is interesting that while you’d think with that soft suspension and all that, it’d be a cinch to drive, but obviously, it’s not due to the plethora or corrections etc you had to do to keep it tracking straight ahead, let alone around a curve.
I can imagine it was a fun, though tiring experience nonetheless.
If you are wafting along a suburban road, the Grand Lady is supremely comfortable. However, in mountain driving on narrow, windy, and often rough roads, the soft suspension in not a benefit. These cars were never popular in these parts just for that reason.
I love these Cadillacs, downsized but still with a genuine Cadillac big block heart like god intended. Definitely what I would want from the late 70s GM catalog.
Unfortunate that GM couldn’t Cadillac-up the roofline, though. Same as all of its brothers & sisters. Not homely, mind you, but it doesn’t say “Cadillac” either.
Formal rooflines were all the rage in those days. The Caddy has a square roof like 99% of all sedans for sale in those days. It doesn’t stand out but it isn’t worthy of derision. What were they supposed to do? Slap a fiberglass cap on it a la the Chrysler Fifth Ave a few years later?
Plenty Cadillac enough for me.
I agree with PRNDL. The 1980 redesign looked a lot more Cadillacy than these did.
Nice old Caddy, and a good description of what our mountain roads are like. I’ve driven from Calgary to Vancouver many times in everything from a VW bug to a Freightliner.
Try it in the winter for added excitement! From Golden west it is essentially “as built” in 1962. It is a beautiful drive, but it’s not for the inattentive or inexperienced driver. It really needs to be upgraded to modern standards but the cost is out reach.
For me the most nerve wracking part of the trip would be taking such a straight old car on the ferry! When I lived on the rock I got more door dings on those damn things than the front row of a Wal Mart parking lot.
Enjoyed the story.
It is getting better year by year. The new bridge over Kickinghorse Canyon is a huge improvement and there is only one bad section of extremely narrow, twisty and windy road. Before this was built, I thought it so dangerous I would always detour through Kootenay Park. It didn’t take any longer, is very pretty and much less tiring.
And yes, past Golden to Sicamous it’s not exactly a good example of a national highway.
Great story, and lovely car.
I think most car nuts and GM-philes would consider the 77-79s to be the last “good” Cadillacs, right before the aluminum 4.1 liter / THM 200 disasters that would follow.
1980-1981 Cadillacs came with the 368, which is fairly well-regarded. The 4100s were true nightmares. Tons of listings on ebay for cars with that engine, acting like there’s nothing at all wrong.
Well, if your looking at 31-28 year old Cadillacs on ebay, its probably safe to say you not looking for a cheap commuter car, if its managed to survive until today with a 4100, it was a “good one” that was well taken care of. At this point a car of that age doesn’t owe anyone anything.
How are they supposed to sell the car in your opinion? Start the ad off with “Don’t buy this car!” in huge letters?
Great story! I love looking at old cars at car shows, but there is nothing like seeing one in motion, and even better is the chance to put it through its paces for a long drive. This is what they were meant for! Your account reminds me of a trip I made last year from Los Angeles to Monterey, California, in my 1979 Toronado. There were many parallels to your story since there are a lot of hills and winding roads on the drive, including about 3 hours on the Pacific Coast Highway through the Big Sur area. I may need to write a CC (or Road Trip Classic) about our little adventure — it was not without its surprises!
Yes, please, I would like to hear about that!
Is that the proper stance for the car? Rear end looks a little low.
I noticed that, too. Could be luggage and no rear air-shock level control (optional on Deville at the time). That wouldn’t help the handling.
Great writeup. My Aunt Norma had a 78 that was oxblood red with matching leather. I also spent some time in a 77 Fleetwood when it was still fairly new. These were quieter and had a softer suspension than my 89 Brougham did, and were WAY more powerful.
However, Lincolns were smoother and quieter yet, though one would probably be even more of a handful on a drive like the one you took.
I was going to remark on how an OD gear and a lockup torque converter would help the mileage, but probably not in mountain driving. For that, you probably had a near-optimal power train.
My high school ’76 Cutlass 350 shared a driveway with my Dad’s ’76 LTD 351 and my Mom’s ’78 Caprice 305. The LTD was closely related to Lincolns of the time, and I can assure you it was a slow thirsty slob on the road compared to the other two cars. But, it was an amazingly quiet car. I would imagine Lincolns had even more sound deadening.
I never did realize that the Cutlass and ’77 and up B-bodies shared a basic chassis architecture until frequenting CC.
Makes it interesting that Chrysler famously gets pounded so hard for reusing it’s mid-size chassis in the ’79-’81 R-Bodies – and Chrysler large cars usually get noted for having good handling against piers of their time.
Nice! I spotted a Fleetwood Brougham of similar vintage about a year ago. A bit more patina than the featured car…
The Fleetwood’s from the 78-79 vintage had 4 wheel disc brakes believe it or not, which probably would have helped a bunch on this drive.
Yup and my buddy talks about replacing the rear end of his Caddy with that of a Fleetwood so it will have rear disk brakes. He may even do it!
Hey that thing is in GREAT shape for being an Iowa road-warrior! Most others of that vintage crumbled 15-20 years ago I think! 🙂
Iowa plates, but I spotted it a couple blocks away from Augustana College in Rock Island. For some reason it was much nicer on the passenger side.
Not a d’Elegance, but it did have a nice dark green leather interior. Also nice to see it still had all four of the factory wheel covers!
Oh I knew camera location wasn’t in Iowa 🙂 Iowa is wayyyyy cleaner… but has crappier roads.
LOL I’ve never seen a vinyl top degrade like that! That would’ve been a pretty car in it’s day, I’ve always loved that shade. Seeing that profile shot I always thought it was interesting what Cadillac did with the b-pillar styling, none of the other B/C/D’s did that.
My grandfather had a 1978 dark green Coupe deVille and I remember vividly that the steering was so loose that it actually felt dangerous. The soft dark green leather seats were very comfortable and sumptuous. But that steering was awful. I remember the steering wheel going back and forth as he drove, wondering why he was constantly moving it. Once I got my license I drove it and knew why. Even with such awful steering, we loved that car. It stayed in the family for almost 25 years and accumulated nearly 300k miles. It was sad to see it get hauled away to the junkyard, but the memories we had with it will remain forever.
The front end probably needed a rebuild. In my ’86 if you did that with the wheel driving down the road the car would be making an “S” pattern. Great article Len. My grandpa had one of these and I remember the power. Never knew the gas mileage but 11.7 highway is truly terrible. It’s too bad they never made a 425 + overdrive, that would have been some car.
Sounds like the Caddy you drove needed a new steering center link. Not an expensive part but can make a world of difference in steering accuracy. This car probably didn’t come with a rear sway bar. I think the one I put on my ’79 Caprice was 1″ (25 mm). GM graciously provides threaded mounting points for the rear bar. Massive difference. Go crazy spending money on shocks. I put Konis on my Caprice, and along with the sway bars completely changed the way the car behaved. Leave the springs alone. And don’t overlook the added tactility that a smaller steering wheel will give you. In pre-air bag days, the first thing I did was replace the steering wheel with a 13″ Momo leather unit. I still have every Momo that I bought and have them hanging up in my garage as a shrine.
The car had a centre link and new tires (whitewalls, no less!) just before we left. The steering on the car, like I said in the article, is actually quite fast and responsive. The problem I had was the overboosted power steering. There is no, zero, zich resistance when you go into a turn. The wheel does not load up off centre. That was a really weird feeling for me coming from driving an Acura all the time.
Cars of that era just didn’t go down the road like the ones today. There’s been a lot of progress in how cars drive since 1978.
Great story. My parents took an epic trip when the kids were out of the house in my mom’s B-body, a 305 ’78 Caprice. Most likely the base suspension as it did not have the anti sway bar.
Banff was a place they made it through. Considering a start and finish in Nebraska, they covered a lot of miles.
It was a comfortable and competent long haul car compared to most cars of it’s era. My Grandfather bought the car, and could not drive after 1981. My mom took it over, I had a turn at it before buying my first car, and my brother eventually drove it for a few years until it was pretty much used up in 1995. The original engine and transmission took it the whole way. Three generations of drivers with birth years ranging from 1903 to 1973.
Even the base Chevy’s had decent suspension for their day and the 305 moved a lightly optioned Caprice along just fine, thanks. The were good, honest cars.
Great story! I love the 77-92 big cadillacs, and have toyed with the notion of taking a small road trip with my ’90 brougham. These cars are just so big, opulent and classy, something we don’t see anymore in modern cars. The end of the line in ’92 for this body really was the end of an era in my opinion, as the 93-96, which was still a nice car, simply didn’t give out that cadillacness that these cars did.
The Acura is also a nice car, in fact I’ve been a passenger in one a lot lately as my roommate has the same year TL. It’s a comfortable car that has pretty good styling and also has some pickup. However, even if it’s an all-around better car for today’s day and age, it just doesn’t say luxury to me the same way one of these big cadillacs say it.
Yes and no to that. The car featured here was not a d’Elegance so it had the lowest trim level, was really isn’t a lot better than a common or garden variety Caprice (ahhh, the heresy, I know). This was to keep the sticker price low as Cadillac had really gone down market by this point. These years were their absolute peak in sales in this era and corners were getting cut to get there. The higher level interiors were much better but all lacked an adjustable driver’s seat back, a curious omission on all GM cars of the era. I never quite figured out why GM did that.
The only other big Caddy I have done a lot of seat time was a 1963 deVille. Totally different experience. It actually was firmer and the materials, fit, and finish were all fantastic. I also loved the styling. A lot changed in fifteen years. Then again, the ’63 was in real terms a lot more money.
You could get adjustable seatbacks, but you had to pick the right box, the myriad of options and combos on these cars would make an logistics expert huddle in the corner in a room full of computer banks and cry. In this vintage you could still get a Cadillac with or without several things that you would imagine would be standard in a Cadillac, 99% of them did have these options, but when you see one without that option, its bizarre.
+1…As I recall, cruise control was optional, but I think a tilt wheel was standard.
Tilt was still optional, believe it or not! I’ve seen a few of these with no tilt/cruise and non-lighted visor mirrors.
The RH mirror was still optional a few years too.
Imagine driving one of these with no right hand mirror!! OMG!! My uncle’s 1979 Sedan deVille was loaded, but he ordered it with really weird options – CB radio, power astroroof, opera lights, leather, base wheels, cruise, Twilight Sentinel and Guidematic Headlamp Control – and he chose NO TILT WHEEL! It was so weird seeing a loaded Caddy without a tilt steering wheel! I rememeber him telling me he chose the color because he saw it in the brochure and liked it – Cedar Firemist!
I followed one of these recently through the Manawatu gorge a twisty speed limited piece of road and notoriously windy you seem to have explained why the car I trailed was having trouble staying on the road the driver really seemed to be doing it hard but if these cars are so suseptable to high winds that explains it, Great story and a long trip in an old car sure shows up the improvements in modern cars.
That was true in ’84 as well. I test drove a ’65 Mustang back then, and I had been unaware how advanced the steering and braking, visibility of mirrors etc, had advanced in 20 years.
Progress is good.
Enjoyed the ride. My ’77 Electra sat for a considerable number of years as well before I bought it, and still only gets driven once a week, fairly short distances in the NYC/Connecticut area. Oil pressure tests fine, and I’ve flushed the engine twice which seems to have added a bit of power, but I suspect she also needs to be given the hi-test “stomp” treatment up some hillier terrain than in the tri-state area. Recently, I had to get to a wedding a bit further away, out in Pa., and had to drive mostly left lane and with more throttle than usual to make it on time from the city. After about an hour or so of this the 350 was running better than I’ve ever felt it. Clearly, it needs some more crap blown out of it.
Your comments on handling, I think, reflect my own willful ignorance of progress! At 30 years old, my cars have all been Panthers and RWD C/D bodies, so I never noticed that the brakes were “bad” but I guess since I lack long-term new car driving experience, I just don’t notice and adjust accordingly. Same goes for steering. When it’s all you’re used to, I suppose you don’t notice its vagueness.
Someone needs an “Italian Tune-up” as the service manager at Cooper Olds used to call it.
Any chance it still had its original dealer badge? I couldn’t see it. Was it delivered on the Island? Cornell Chev-Olds Cadillac in Victoria was the Cadillac dealer at the time, or it could have been Tom Harris in Nanaimo. The former is leveled – it was right next to Metro Toyota (which was done up as a Japanese pagoda, as were a few Toyota dealers in Western Canada) and the latter is now a Wheaton store.
The car was sold at Cornell and built in Oshawa.
Hi-thanks for the nice roadtrip report.-know the drive so well and I´ve driven the Old Lady with James.It sure is a piece of automobil history.
Oh man your photos make me long to finish my ’83 and get back to being behind the wheel of these cars again. I love the no-nonsense styling. I’m surprised you had that much difficulty driving the Caddy, I always thought the B/C/D bodies were very well mannered on the road but I guess there is a difference between the divisions. Maybe it’s due to the fact I’ve never really driven a modern car to compare, only my ’87 Caprice Landau and ’83 Olds 98. The Caddy would be the biggest of the bunch so I guess it would be a different story as you mentioned with the braking and what not. My 98 far outhandles my ’65 F-85 daily driver despite having a longer wheelbase, go figure.
I’m a bit late getting here, but that was a great lunchtime read Len, thank you! I vastly prefer the roofline of the 77-79 C bodies like this one. The car’s a beautiful colour too. 🙂
Great story Len.
I have two, a 1977 and a 78. I found a fully equipt 1979 but sadly wouldn’t part with it as they preferred it over there SUV for pull there travel trailer. (auto leveling) They claimed it had a better ride and did equally well with respect to fuel consumption, My 77 Sedan deville had 39,200 miles when I purchased it in 2006 now it has 48,700 miles now and its a beautiful Brilliant White with a black vinyl top except for the new pioneer its all original and rides like a dream. the 78 was my moms car and its a soothing deep dark blue with a medium light blue top. It has 237,000 miles and it has much more horsepower than the 77 same motor better quad thats a little difficult to tune but once you get it right I found it greatly increases power over the 77. Removing the ceramic pellets from the convertor improved power as well. Over all I have to give them their due considering the technology of the era. I have a 1998 Pontiac Bonneville 3.8 and its power to weight is outstanding. Without a turbo it gives 205 HP and the cars weighs 3,800 pounds, its low and wide and it really handles well. This 3.8 produces about 25 hp more than the old 425 cid Caddy but the Caddy’s overwhelms the little V6 with more torx. My experience with the Caddy’s while driving the country roads i’ve noticed that the rpm’s don’t change up hills with a steady pedal. With all that being said my Grand Old Gal’s well, I like them just the way they are. I will continue to buy only pre 1998 US vehicles. Love the beauty of the North American continent from coast to coast and from Texas to the Arctic.
This was an unexpected peasure for Maryland. Sunday ride in the 77 Caddy.
Great article. The 77 CDV was my dream car when it came out. I managed to buy a three year old model that looked and ran like new. I had driven a 70 CDV for a couple of years before. That had the 472 engine and was a real runner. It handled pretty good. These cars would hold a steady line once they “took a set”. This was a common technique. It required a high visual horizon and smooth turning inputs and transitions between acceleration and braking. Yeah this would get tiring on a “challenging ” highway. The best way to save your energy was to slow down. The 78 received a positive review in Car and Driver. The 77 was more compact and handled much better than the prior bigger models of 74-76. The 425 did not power this model as quickly as the 70’s high compression 472 but it returned about 16 mpg. on the highway and of course produced fewer emissions. The proportions of both the coupe and sedan were very pleasing and they were both very impressive looking, a real Cadillac. I am so tired of this carping about the “Caprice quality interior”. No offense to the Caprice but there’s no way to confuse the two. There are no interchangable parts. Sure there’s a lot of plastic and fake wood but this was the seventies, Cadillac learned their lesson and upgraded their interior quality in the 1990s. I love these cars. My 77 was my first good car, I was twenty five years old and the following years were the best of my life. If any car could be used to “recapture my youth” this would be it. Maybe I’ll buy another one, I could do alot worse.