Every day, delectable new tidbits about the Toyota Ft-86/Scion FR-S and the Subaru BRZ bubble to the surface. The biggest question in my mind from the beginning was was whether the Subaru boxer four was going to be mounted ahead of the front wheel center line, to make its signature AWD possible. I had a hard time imagining how the goal of world-class weight distribution and handling could be accomplished with that. But now that ft86forum has posted the above picture, as well as others and more details, it’s quite clear: the engine is nestled snugly between the wheels, and will be rear wheel drive only. This may may already be old news, but its pretty exciting none the less. The specs promise handling that may be unparalleled for its class, with lower CG than a Boxster, a 53/47 weight distribution, a Cd of 0.27, 200 hp, a combination of both direct and port fuel injection, and low overall weight. Toyota is determined to shed its dull image, once again.
There’s something intrinsically elegant about this power train configuration, and it’s one that has been used only once before, quite a long time ago.
Tatra, of course (full history here). Before its line of famous rear-engine streamliners, Tatra pioneered flat twin and four cylinder engines driving through a central tube to the rear wheels.The first of the series was the legendary T11 (above), with a two cylinder boxer.
A long line of successors followed, and eventually, a four cylinder boxer appeared in the T30. Later version included this sporty T57A.
There it is, the little Tatra boxer four snuggled in between the front wheels. Suspension is a bit different though, not to mention power output. The 1150 cc four made some 18 hp. But the RWD Tatras were known for their fine handling, unlike the successor rear-engined ones. That’s a good omen.
Cool! Tatra did it all! Where in heaven’s name did you get those pictures? Oil stains on the carpet under the T57A? I love the way the front springs arch over the engine.
Wikipedia says the ’65 Toyota Publica and Sports 800 had a flat twin and rwd. Apparently the Jowett Jupiter had a flat four and rwd in the 1940’s. But Tatra was way earlier than that.
The Jupiter engine was a bit more forward than the Tatra positioning. The Morris Minor was supposed to have an opposed engine.
Issigonis wanted a boxer engine but there wasnt enough money so the old Morris 8 sidevalve was kept. The Minor was his best car.
Good catch about the Jowett.
And that’s gravel, not carpeting. Not uncommon in older European car museums. Anyway, Europeans are madly anti-carpeting in large public places. They can’t believe their eyes when they arrive and see the whole airport carpeted! And restaurants too.Frankly, beats me too.
Everyone knows, in America the streets are paved with gold indoor-outdoor nylon carpeting.
Oil leaks make a mess of carpet.
The 1500 flat four in the Jowett Javelin saloon and Jupiter sports of the 1950s may have been close to the front of the car, but the flat fours and flat twins they made in the 30s ( and the flat twins in the 20s) would have been set further back, as was the fashion then. The Jupiter was a fine sports car, and was popular with 50s racing drivers as road transport.
The Publica did indeed have an air-cooled flat-2. I saw one at the Japanese Classic Car Show a while back.
Could it be at the Schlumpf Museum (National Automobile Museum) in Mulhouse, France? There were too many cars to take in in a day, and I don’t remember seeing this Tatra in particular, but they had a collection of extraordinarily unusual vehicles.
Wow, great photo. A little bump on the front of that Jowett would be a bad day for that engine. Kinda like the V-Twin hanging out in front of a Morgan. Those headers must have started some grass fires.
Nice piece of Autoarcheaology Paul it couldnt be as simple as Subaru meets early Celica could it though I didnt realise it went back further than those Jowett Javelins/Jupiters. Wow you learn something every day here.
It really irks me that Toyota’s going to sell this as a Scion in the U.S. Scion is a silly, tacky, stupid, market exercise. It hasn’t resulted in younger buyers (no offense, Paul) and the cars most likely would have had higher, sustained sales figures with a Toyota badge.
This car would generate 10 times the market buzz if it was badged “Toyota Celica.”
Toyota knows they’re beige.
I want one, and I don’t give a rat’s ass what badge goes on it.
I’ll look forward to seeing the BRZ up close…silly name, but Subaru likes silly names for their coupes. Shame it won’t have AWD available, perfect for the winter trip for 2 to McCall or Hailey.
Just having a break from converting my Minx to floorshift Ahhhh the joys of motoring…. This new Subota should have Celica badging giving it some cred Scion is unknown here a non brand everything from TOYMOTA is badged as such with the odd Lexus badge just to be confusing. Bring back the CELICA.
Here here! I loved my ’87 Celica, daily driver for 11 years.
I learned to drive stick in a Krylon blue 76 Celica GT. Would LOVE to have that car again.
Our son learned to drive stick in my ’87. That was it for the clutch.
This Subaru is one of the few new sports cars that I get really excited about, light weight, flat four raspy-ness, and 6-speed stick. I actually like that more than the newst Camaros and Mustangs. With those pony cars I’d rather have the car’s they’re trying to imitate than the current versions.
I’m imagining some serious a$$-hauling with me behind the wheel of that Subaru.
Personally, I’m sick of this car already. Tease, hint, tease, hint . . . . . now sell the damn car already, and I couldn’t care less what the name on the hood says. Keep up the pre-production marketing much longer and you might as well call it a “Camaro”. Or a “Volt”.
+1 !!
Agreed. What has it been, five years? At least it looks worth the wait.
I spent 10 days in the Czech Republic this summer, sadly, I didn’t see a single Tatra. The best I could do was buy one of those wind up toy Tatras. I’ll try the museum next time.
Ooo, that’s an exciting Subaru. At first I was irked that it wasn’t going to have AWD like my very old Impreza and the Outback that followed that. But my current Impreza is FWD, so the idea of a sporty Subaru powering the rear wheels has become much more exciting. Do you think there’s any way I’ll be able to convince my wife that this is a good family car for us to zip the kids to and from school in?
They actually made Tatras until 1997, still with the rear engine. The T700 was the last one. After that they concentrated on building trucks.
It’s silly for Scion VP Jack Hollis to claim in his Nov. 30 FR-S intro speech that
“The S800’s most important contribution to the FR-S, is that it was the first car ever to feature a front-mounted boxer engine with a rear-wheel drive configuration.”
Don’t know much about history … Mr Hollis. Not a CC reader either.
The S800 did not predate Toyota’s own boxer-equipped RWD Publica. The Sports 800 can’t even claim to be the first two-seater with that configuration. Tatra got there first.