Imagine, if you will, that your rich uncle Pierre passed away and left you his beautiful villa in Antibes, between Cannes and Nice in the south of France. You will be vacationing there every chance you get, but you are still the same cheap bastard that you’ve always been and insist on driving a car “with character.” And, you only have 990 Euros in your pocket.
If so, you’ll do as I did and notice the used cars parked at the local Carrefour HyperMarche (that’s a supermarket about three times the size of the average Costco). Parked near each other were our two contenders. First up, the Peugeot 205. No, not a beloved GTI, just a regular plain-Marie red 205GL 4-door, the same as driven by every cabbie in Marrakech, Morocco when I was there on my honeymoon many years ago. Anyway, our subject car looks quite pert just sitting there; millions of these were built and they are still a very common sight all over France. This one is a 1991 model, with 131,000 km’s on the clock and an asking price of 990 Euros (about US$1300)
The paint is faded in areas (most of the hood and roof) but still looks very shiny in other places. It does not appear to have been in any major accidents but then again, parking in France is not a civil affair and usually results in some degree of panel damage. The sleepwalking lion looks proud to adorn the front of this car
The rear view for some reason is my favorite view, something about the shape of the taillights and the filler panel between, it just looks right.
The interior is in excellent condition, except for the gearshift knob. I have no idea how it is possible to break one of these but someone managed it. The car is fairly poverty-spec, with no rear wiper and manual everything but it does have a passenger side mirror and apparently the “CT” is OK, whatever that means on the for sale sign.
Still, it has rub strips and a full set of hubcaps, so perhaps not as poverty-spec as I thought for a 1991. All in all, you wouldn’t be ashamed to bomb around the area in this. Well, at least until some rich guy pulls up next to you in a McLaren or Bentley, as happened to us several times…
Now, perhaps you’d like something less flashy than our red contender, so let me show you our other choice: a 1995 Renault Super 5 “Saga” edition with only 89,000 kms on the clock, for the same money. The Super 5 was the successor to the original 5, the car we received as the “LeCar.” I am happy to report that the Super apparently received the missing 4th lug nut on every wheel. And this one has steelies as well, no plastic hupcap to cover the minimalist beauty!
Personally, I really believe that the styling is an excellent evolution of the LeCar and makes it look quite modern. I have no idea what the Saga special edition signifies, but doubt it has anything to do with the image of Che Guevara on the front fender.
France used to be the country of the white supermini, every cheap car seemed to be painted white (as I understand it, white was a no-charge color while every other hue was an upcharge). Nowadays you see every color, but this white one can let you believe you’re Pascal the farmer taking some chickens to town while puffing on a yellow Gauloises.
This car has had a few knocks around it’s gray skirts, but like the 205, seems in very good condition overall.
The interior, again, is very clean but also very spartan. I’m sure there are no soft-touch plastics anywhere.
As opposed to the 205, this one does have the rear wiper and along being four years newer, has quite a few less kilometers on it as well. The price is the same, though, demonstrating just how popular the 205 really was back in the day and still is at present. However, just looking at how beautifully integrated the rear corners are on the 5, the whole rear end just works visually; it is so smooth and cleverly designed. Not having our five-mph safety bumpers really helps clean it up as well, I suppose. As much as I like the 205’s rear, I think I may like this even more.
So what do you think, which of these two beauties gets your 990 Euros?
(Full Disclosure: I do not have a rich uncle Pierre, I paid full fare to France, even more for our villa, and was charged an obscene amount for food and drink during my entire stay.)
Is it French car week? Did I miss the announcement? I got a call earlier from a friend requesting a ride to buy a $995 French car on Friday I’ll shoot it if it happens we havent had a 406 Peugeot on CC yet. of these two I’d go for the Pug but you knew that already.
My nephew had a 206 for a company car which was thrashed mercilessly by everyone at his works without missing a beat.I’d have a Peugeot if it was me
■ Nice-looking superminis, designed back when driver visibility was still in fashion;
■ A store 3X the size of Costco?? I thought the French hated big-box stores even more than Americans. How very Anglo-Saxon;
■ Whoever coined “Le Car” at Renault deserved to be fined by the Académie Française for bad French.
I can only assume that if the French have succumbed to home-grown big box stores (as opposed to those foreign chains that may have blown in, like locusts), someone decided that the only way to assuage the national pride was to make damn sure they were bigger than anyone else’s boxes.
Isnt Target French-owned? I and my idiot friends have always said it ‘Tar-zhay’ just to amuse ourselves….
No. I don’t think so. At least, I never heard of such a thing. To my knowledge, abroad developpements of french supermarket chains are mostly done in what used to be third-world countries (South America and China). I don’t think they have any implantations in North America.
Nope, the Tarzhay thing is just a popular affectation. It’s a US-headquartered company, formerly known as the Dayton Hudson corporation (for its founding retailer and a large 60’s acquisition) but was renamed Target Corporation in 2000 as they were by far the largest brand at that point.
Curbside Classic fact… Dayton-Hudson is the corporate successor to the Hudson chain of department stores, which were founded by the same family as the Hudson car company.
And that’s a fact that I never knew. Makes sense as J. L. Hudson stores were based out of Detroit too.
We actually succumbed quite fast to the supermarkets. The first hypermarket was built by Carrefour as soon as 1963.
Moreover, an intense lobbying was done by the supermarket chains during the 2000’s to pressure the government to allow bigger and bigger retail space.
So, now every major or medium sized city in France greets travellers with rows and rows of big retail boxes.
As a former resident in France, I can assess you that there are only big-box stores left. City centers are dying and becoming just theme parks with cafés. And in the current globalized world I’m sure that Carrefour has some Arab capital within 🙂
If anything, we’ve taken from the French. Sam Walton often cited the Carrefour stores he visited in Brazil as the inspiration for what would become the Walmart Supercenters we all know and hate. (or at least begrudgingly love) At first they opened a few stores that were exact copies of the Carrefour/Auchan concept, (they were even called Hypermarts) but in a rarity for the Beast of Bentonville, they bombed almost immediately. Auchan itself tested the US market with couple of stores in Houston, but they pulled the plug after about 10 years or so.
The Walmart Supercenter concept was simply taking the Hypermart and selling groceries at the smallest possible margin, if not a loss. The idea was to get people in the door with dirt cheap groceries and count on a significant number of them to make their way over to the much more profitable general merchandise side of the store.
Along similar lines, Disneyland was inspired by Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen. Not exactly Walmart prices, however! My theory is, tickets are expensive to keep the riff-raff out.
Well, we sometimes succeeded in exporting our “brilliant” ideas.
Want to know what is our best success ?
Want to know what idea we created and exported ALL OVER THE WORLD ?
Value Added Tax…
Not here in the US yet….
*crosses fingers*
This is exactly what is killing rural life in France.
Deserted villages, the local baker shuts the shop, so does the butcher and the charcuterie (for porc)
People move to the city and France has Always suffered from the centralisation since Napoleon.
France is probably the country which has changed most since the mobilisation of Europe thanks to the car.
In Germany you’ll Always find a city at 60 – 70 kilometers, but France, under Paris is virtually empty with two three large agglomorations like Lyon, Bordeaux and Marseille.
My love for France has Always been deep, very deep, but try finding a real Hotel in the country, not some chane-boxin an Industrial zone, but a real Hotel de la Poste or a Hotel du Gare in the village centre, they’re almost extinct.
Mc Donalds is all over France, while the local charcutier and boulangerie would provide a feast of food with local products and real good bread.
France, the North Normandy, Brittany, the land of the cows, the land of the butter.
France, the South the land of olive oil the land of porc.
France with a small Peugeot Renault or Citroën dealership in every small town, right dead in the centre.
I miss France….
Ouh ! Centralisation started way before Napoléon.
If I’m not mistaken, it started with Louis the XI during the 15th century and it might have started earlier (my history lessons are so far away…).
History of France is basically the history of centralisation with french sovereigns gaining more and more power on outter provinces.
It was almost at the time of Louis the XIV.
It’s still going awfully strong today.
Just look at a french map : every highway, every railroad and every airline converge on Paris.
Strange, for according to NationMaster, France has twice the percentage of rural residents than Germany (24% vs. 12%). Explanation, anyone?
One doubt I have about international statistics is, all countries must agree about definition of demographic terms; otherwise, it’s apples vs. oranges.
I do agree that France has a long history of political centralization. One author likened French national governance to colonialism, keeping the provincial natives in check.
Le Car is wrong? What should it be, La Caresse?
It’s either La Voiture or The Car.
On the other hand, Maud Le Car is perfectly OK.
Why isn’t her image on the Renault, instead of Che Guevara’s overexposed bearded face?
She is definitely better than a “5”.
A Carrefour is only typically as big as a Meijer, Fred Meyer, or Walmart Supercenter, ~220,000 SF.
Not to be a nit-picker, but fact checking is my job. The average Carrefour Hypermarket is 9,647 square meters = 103,839 sq. feet. The average Costco is 143,000 sq. ft. or 38% larger.
And Carrefour is actually shrinking its Hypermarkets, as the trend in Europe is now is to smaller stores.
Maybe it seemed larger to me because the people were thinner.
Plausible !….and the cars in the parking lot are smaller too, another reason the store seems larger.
OK, now you’ve got me hooked. I tried to find info for Carrefour Antibes, the best I ended up with was measuring it on Google Earth. I came up with approx 300ftx730ft for a total of 219,000 sq ft, give or take a few. Still larger than Costco but yes, not 3x. I guess I could not see the curvature of the earth…
There’s a large range of sizes of Hypermarkets; from quite small up to 248k sq.ft. That may well be one of the biggest ones. I’m not sure what the biggest Costcos are. I’m guessing the range of Costcos is not nearly as big, as Costco actually very much limits the number of different items they carry. They don’t pretend to be a full-range store like WalMart or Hypermarket. A different retail concept, actually.
Quite right, in fact Costco’s habit of discontinuing items we like, in addition to limited selection, assures business for competitors. Our weekly grocery shopping spans Costco, Trader Joe’s, Safeway, & sometimes (when desperate) Walmart’s grocery branch. Vive la différence!
BTW, because of our proximity to the Border, a lot of Mexican nationals shop in our stores. They’re a different class of people from illegals: late-model cars, fashionable dress, & often indistinguishable from you & me.
In France, the trend to smaller stores mostly exists downtown.
After building huge supermarkets and hypermarkets in the suburbs, Carrefour and Auchan realized that :
1. These were not as profitable as they thought they would be ;
2. They were missing quite a big and very profitable target, namely people living downtown in major cities.
These people are quite affluent and would rather shop next to their home than drive to a supermarket in the suburbs.
Moreover, many downtowners don’t even own a car.
That’s why some competitors, namely Monoprix and Franprix, made a specialty of opening small and middle-size supermarkets at the heart of major cities.
So, a race stood place between Auchan and Carrefour to buy as many downtown retail spaces they could find to open smaller supermarkets.
But that doesn’t mean that the suburbian huge ones are disappearing.
It’s only mean that the two trends exist : huge hypermarkets in the suburbs and small supermarkets downtown.
We’re seeing a downtown trend to smaller stores also, as people move back into the city centers and their near environs. Even though most of those people *do* have a car in the USA, they still often do not relish having to drive 15-20 minutes away into the suburbs to do their grocery shopping. Plus most of these people who are moving back into downtown areas tend to be a bit more affluent and would rather not shop at Wal-Mart anyway!
Wal-Mart is also testing out smaller grocery-only stores called “Neighborhood Market” but I don’t know if they’re trying to use those in city center areas or not.
I have not seen a Carrefour in France, but I can attest that the Carrefour in Abu Dhabi is far larger than any Costco that I have seen. I went there looking for frozen pizza and other basics and was flabbergasted by the sheer size of the place. The selection of dates (the fruit from palm trees, not mail-order brides) was by itself larger than the fruit department in most American supermarkets.
Huh, maybe there are different sized ones. I am not exaggerating when I say I could not see one end of the store from the other. It did seem much bigger than my Costco. I just looked it up and it has 79 cashiers, which were all busy when I was there.
What is nice is that it is not just bulk as opposed to Costco and the selection is vast. Yogurt alone was two complete aisles. And there’s a virtual used car lot in the parking lot!
Don’t nit pick. It was originally going to be called “Frog”.
Besides, without that, there’s wouldn’t have been a basis for Gallagher’s “Le Door” joke.
I know The Doors’ “La Woman”.
These look so tempting to us, I think, because we never owned one in real life. But I’d take Le Car, as long as I could stand it. Who knows, might be tres bon?
I would rather drive around looking at a lion on the steering wheel. Even if it is sleepwalking rather than roaring. If the Renault was a 2CV, then my answer would be different.
That’d really be something, seeing as how the 2CV is built by Citroen 🙂
Doooooh! Publicly humiliated by a French car. Just ignore me.
Nevermind JP perhaps you were thinking of the 4CV that was a Renault.
I owned a ’95 Renault Rapid almost 10 years ago when I lived in Germany. The Rapid is the “van” version of the Renault 5. Bought it for about the same price (1000 EUR) and it was definetly the worst car I’ve owned! Sold it for 150 EUR one year later, with a blown head gasket, bad idling and lots of rust. I’d take the 205, even if it’s older. It also looks so much nicer!
Like the 205 because I owed one and durability seems to be quite high. Always liked the smooth but square R5. This 205 a phase 2 with better dash and different rear light pattern. Out of the non-GTI 205s a 1.4 would be nice performance but hold onto the economy, otherwise the most basic one possible for the charm of skinny tyres and pottery journeys. Is it just me or did the R5 have better ride and more comfortable seats than the 205 or anything built this side of 2005?
I like this type of car, a basic utilitarian hatchback. Of the two, the Renault is probably the better buy, being newer, lower mileage and a bit cleaner inside. But the Pug is more attractive and reminds me of my red Mazda 323 hatchback, so it’s a toss-up…
CT means controle technique- it is the French version of the MOT or state inspection, and is notoriously picky. I think it is only done every 3 years or so, which means that on poorly maintained cars, lots can be ignored in the meantime, and cheap beaters are uneconomical to repair. Between those, I’d take the 205- it has to be the most rust resistant car ever made, and with the 1.9 diesel will get 50mpg and last forever. Petrol engines were ok, but tend to have issues with cylinder liner gaskets. Early petrol cars used a really unusual engine- the Peugeot 104 ‘suitcase’ engine- so called because it was inclined to nearly horizontal with the cylinder head bang against the dashboard, and the gearbox in the sump. However, although most jobs were very easy to do, any major mechanical work required the suitcase to come out.
The ‘tranverse-five’ Renaults are very fiddly to work on and can rust as well as you’d expect a Renault to. They aren’t actually French either, but rather Slovenian. Yes, the later R5 is the other Yugo- so perhaps that should be Tito rather than Che on the front wing.
When I came to the UK in 2003, both of these cars as well as Citroen BX’s were everywhere, and indeed they were until a few years ago, when the scrappage scheme seems to have finally removed them from the roads. Just as in the US, the early 90s seems to be the zenith of car longevity- rust has been pretty much licked, strikes and indifferent assembly were much less of an issue, and simple electronics eliminated 80s era drivability problems, yet fully integrated computerized cars with airbags and expensive and unavailable ECU’s had yet to be the norm.
If that’s indeed a ’91, it has the TU engine, not the suitcase. The backwards-tilted XV/XW/XY engines from the 104 were gone by about 1989.
PSA tilt their engines right back the XUD in my Xsara is like that the 2088 that was in my 406 the same it keeps the weight behind the front axle for precise steering and better handling.
The TU engine was actually tilted forward a couple of degrees. The
On older cars, CT must be passed every two years.
Moreover, when the car is sold, the CT must be less than 6 months old in order to allow the new owner to get its title of ownership.
It’s mostly picky about some issues such as safety (brakes, steering, tires, suspension…) and pollution.
But beware, because most of the times the results mean nothing.
I once bought a 1981 Ford Taunus with a clear CT which told nothing about the brakes.
Unfortunately, I almost killed myself first time I hit the brakes. The right brake pads were stuck and the car would violently swerve on the left any time you hit the brakes a bit hard above 50 mph…
I would probably take the Renault Super 5. It looks a bit fresher.
The suitcase engine was also the basis of the BMW K series engines.
If I had to choose between the two, it would be the Pug hands down.
Nice to see some CC coverage from Antibes! I’ll be there in a weeks time (Cannes actually but we go shopping at Carrefour in Antibes quite often). I’ll check then if these beauties are still around. Which one I’d chose? None! But if I had to chose, I’d go for Le super cinq because it just looks nicer.
Yeah, check it out, it’s the Carrefour right off the A8 exit, use the entrance next to the gas station.
The 205 is a little puzzling because the badges say GL and the sign says GR. The difference in this case would be the engine: the 205 GL had the 1,124cc TU1 and the 205 GR had the bigger 1,360cc TU3 with 10 more horsepower. I think 4 CV is 1.1 liters, so the GR is probably a typo, but it’s rarely encouraging when sellers don’t know what car they’re selling (particularly when it’s, er, on the tailgate). The Renault I think is a 1.4 (1,397cc) and probably at least nominally more powerful.
Still, of the two, I think the 205 would be the more fun. The smaller-engine models were almost as nimble as the 205GTI and didn’t have quite the same propensity for getting sideways, which is probably for the best most of the time.
Thats odd GR in the 405 means smaller engine and on diesels non turbo.
It depended on the model. On the 205, the GR was the mid-level version; depending on the year, there were two or occasionally three grades below it with the 954 and 1,124cc engines. Except the GTI, the G meant five doors while X (XE/XL/XR) meant three.
Aaron, I saw you were looking for 205 pics on your site, I snapped a few of various ones specifically for you and will get them over to you eventually…I actually saw a Cabrio but it blew by so fast I couldn’t get a pic…
One the 205, the 4 CV TU engine is a 1.0 liter engine with 45 bhp (and 50 after 1993) while the TU 1.1 liter is a 5 CV.
However, the TU 1.1 liter is only rated 4 CV when it’s on the Citroën AX.
Edit : I checked my Auto Journal – Every french and foreign car 1990 – 1991 and I reckon that the GL has a 1.1 liters rated 4 CV.
I’ll take the cute little Poo-Joe please ! .
-Nate
Having no experience with either (except for a very vague memory of the odd Le Car when I was little) the 205 “speaks” to me more.
Those are really low prices for such low mileage cars, especially from a dealer. In the PDX area, double the mileage and add a thousand dollars in price, that would be a typical private party Craigslist deal around here.
I’d drive it if it were well taken care of.
I had both of these cars and both are good cars but I think I would go for a 205.
The Renault 5, aka the Supercinq, is one of the last ones built by Renault so you can expect it to be a trouble free car (production ceased in 1998 IIRC).
It’s got a 1.4 fuel injected inline 4 (whose ancesters go way back to the Dauphine’s engine) with only 60 hp.
It’s some kind of a quiet workhorse with enough torque to leave the city for open roads.
It’s a good engine but not a fun and lively rev-happy one.
One the other hand, as most Renaults, the Supercinq is quite comfortable, at least more than the Peugeot, the suspension being softier.
If the engine is tough (if you forget its tendency to leak a bit of oil above 80.000 miles), dashboard built quality is dire. So one can expect a few rattle from plastic parts rubbing against each other.
On that level, I reckon the 205 is even worse ! On mine, I used to stuck a box of tissues between the dashboard and the windshield hoping to minimize vibrations and rattles !
About that 205, the ad tells us that its engine is a “4 CV”, which means it’s a 1.0 liter TU engine with 45 bhp (In France, “ch” or “chevaux” stands for bhp while “CV” or “chevaux fiscaux” is a unit based on engine size and gear ratios used to calculate some taxes).
It’s also a troubleless engine but, with such a mileage (132.000 km), one should check that the timing belt has been replaced (every 130.000 km or 5 years IIRC).
However, it’s a bit short and power. It’s good for city driving but a bit short for highways or, worse, open roads, where passing trucks can easily become a game of russian roulette.
Yet, TU engines, even the 1.0 liter, are very peppy engines that make 205s really fun cars to drive.
Moreover, Peugeot (and Citroën, which is a subsidiary) basically built the finest handling cars at that time. Renaults, VWs, Opesl, Fords, even BMWs and Mercedeses were no match against Peugeots in the 80’s and 90’s.
The 205, even the stripped ones, is no exception. You want fun on the road ? Get a 205.
And since there are plenty of nice curvy mountain roads near Antibes, I would definitely choose the 205.
But I would try to find one with a 1.1 liter TU engine built after 1993, because it’s got fuel injection and 60 hp. It’s faster (100 mph) and yet you can expect higher mileage than the 1.0 liter.
Peugeots with the 1.1 liter have 5 CV.
Mine had that engine and it’s probably the funniest car I’ve ever had.
I had rad times driving in Corsica.
EDITED (don’t know why but the editing function didn’t work…)
I had both of these cars and both are good cars but I think I would go for a 205.
The Renault 5, aka the Supercinq, is one of the last ones built by Renault so you can expect it to be a trouble free car (production ceased in 1998 IIRC).
It’s got a 1.4 fuel injected inline 4 (whose ancesters go way back to the Dauphine’s engine) with only 60 hp.
It’s some kind of a quiet workhorse with enough torque to leave the city for open roads.
It’s a good engine but not a fun and lively rev-happy one.
One the other hand, as most Renaults, the Supercinq is quite comfortable, at least more than the Peugeot, the suspension being softier.
If the engine is tough (if you forget its tendency to leak a bit of oil above 80.000 miles), dashboard built quality is dire. So one can expect a few rattle from plastic parts rubbing against each other.
On that level, I reckon the 205 is even worse ! On mine, I used to stuck a box of tissues between the dashboard and the windshield hoping to minimize vibrations and rattles !
About that 205, the ad tells us that its engine is a GL “4 CV”, which means it’s a 1.1 liter TU engine with 55 bhp (In France, “ch” or “chevaux” stands for bhp while “CV” or “chevaux fiscaux” is a unit based on engine size and gear ratios used to calculate some taxes).
It’s also a troubleless engine but, with such a mileage (132.000 km), one should check that the timing belt has been replaced (every 130.000 km or 5 years IIRC).
I had a 205 once with that engine.
It’s a very peppy and lively unit that make 205s really fun cars to drive.
And since the 205 is light (765 kg / 1.686 lbs), 55 hp is sufficient to drive on open roads and higways.
On the downside, it might a 4-speed only. So I hope it’s got the optional 5-speed gearbox.
But I guess I would take even with a 4-speed because Peugeot (and Citroën, which is a subsidiary) used to build the finest handling cars at that time. Renaults, VWs, Opesl, Fords, even BMWs and Mercedeses were no match against Peugeots in the 80’s and 90’s.
The 205s, even the stripped ones, are no exception. You want fun on the road ? Get a 205.
And since there are plenty of nice curvy mountain roads near Antibes, I would definitely choose the 205.
Unless I am planning to drive in the city.
Because, at slow speeds, the steering of the Supercinq is lighter than the 205 and it seemed to me that its turning radius was also far better.
What a nice thorough write-up !
Are these my only choices in this theoretical dreamland? haha! Surely, a beater classic Mini can be had for 990 Euros. If not a Cooper, maybe a pickup or panel variant….
Not in France. For 990 €, chances are you would get a non-running classic Mini.
They are quite overpriced over here. Most beater Minis start at 2.000 €.
I can’t believe Pininfarina did the 205 5-door, the 3-door maybe but not the 5-door. Two fewer doors haven’t made this much difference since the days of the 3.0CS and Bavaria.
Pininfarina diddn’t do either; it’s a longstanding myth their hand was involved in the original 205’s. Only the (ugly) latter Cabriolet can be acreddited to the house of Pininfarina.
Wow, despite being French Cars, and my understanding of Euro to Dollar conversion, these seem quite reasonable. Here in South Florida anything under $2000 that runs and drives is a total crap shot, in the dark. Many of our Toyota, Nissan, Honda types are snatched up by wholesalers to be exported; leaving the overlooked Aveos, mega mile Saturns, Metros representing runners under 2k. Occasional Panthers and 3800 Gm’s can be found under 2 k, but they will be terminally tired. A truck? Forgettaboutit.
A clean, well running Cavalier with working A/C could pull 3k.
Yep, I see cars for sale in Minnesota for $2000 or more which would go straight to the junkyard in the UK. 200,000 miles, made of rust. I always attributed this to the lack of MOT/CT/WOF/inspection/whatever, low fuel price, and total lack of public transportation.
Here, poor people often can’t afford to run a car, it seems in many parts of the US they can’t afford not to.
Dunno abut mainland Europe, but used prices have actually rocketed here in the last few years due to the scrappage scheme and high scrap metal prices. 10 years ago you could get a midsize non-German car with 150,000 miles on the clock for £250, no serious rust and all the important stuff working.
Here in Florida, the working poor that are lucky enough to have a running jalopy will be likely uninsured. Our insurance rates are ridiculous. We have a perfect storm of personal injury lawyers, one third driving without insurance, limited public transit, and moronic drivers. My rates doubled from my pervious premiums in California, despite a perfect driving record and low risk car.
Interestingly, Florida will automatically suspend your license if your policy lapses. And more than one conviction of driving while suspended is a felony, with heavy fines, i.e. revenue generation.
Having been infected 35 years ago, of course I would go for the R5.
As a former Peugeot 205 owner, I’d go for it. Those cars were very solid. I had to sell mine because I was an idiot who didn’t check that my wonderful Roland Garros version had been in a major crash! And it cost me 3000 EUR in 1998 for a 1990 model
Nice post Jim! I’ve always loved the R5 styling, in all its versions, so I’d go with it. And possibly a set of ear plugs. The 205 was more common here when new than the R5s (although both were rare), so my chances of finding a surviving 5 are about as high as discovering I have an Uncle Pierre…
The Peugeot, while the ‘sane’ choice, is too generic and
I’d stick with the early versions of a ‘5’ if I were to really drive one
(but that’d be insane…).
Skip both and find yourself a nice diesel anything.
At $7.50/gallon for regular, even more for super (and don’t these
cars both need the super?) and only $6.50/gal for diesel, you’ll
quickly understand why all the legendary cars of pre-common-
rail-diesel era have been (sadly) disappearing from European roads.
I had a nice diesel Focus in 2003 that could really burn rubber
from a stand-still.
Another vote for the R5. Despite my bad experience in a Le Car thirty years ago, I’d still like to have one.
And that interior is a place I’d love to lock up a large number of car reviewers for all eternity, or at least until they get over their “too much hard plastic” fetish.
I’d go for the 205 since by reputation even the poverty spec ones had better handling than the contemporary Renault. Also matte paint used to be endemic to French countryside cars so I’d just hit the 205 with a scouring pad and start looking for 205 GTIs in the local junkyards to build a q-car.
I’ll take the Pug over the Renault everyday, just because.
205, as they drove way too good for a cheap supermini (at the time), and old Pugs were built to last for the next century.