The Hondamatic is an interesting design, as Honda went a quite different route in designing it to avoid paying any license fees. As a result, it does not have planetary gearsets, but sliding gears on parallel axes. This has been the case with all subsequent Honda automatics ever since, which explains their more mechanical “feel” in certain operating parameters.
It was a two speed transmission, but some versions, including the one adapted to several of Honda’s motorcycles, did not shift automatically. One either started (slowly) in Drive, or shifted up manually. Since the torque converter locked up at higher speeds, Honda sometimes called it a three-speed automatic. The elimination of the clutch and the possibility of driving without shifting was obviously designed to attract new riders to bikes. But it just didn’t quite pan out that way.
The Honda 750A was the first one to get the Hondamatic. But in that class it was anything but a hit, and it was withdrawn by 1978. But the smaller 400A and 450A were built from 1978 through 1983, so presumably some commuters were drawn to it.
I totally forgot about these bikes.My wife rides a BMW F650gs and she’s starting to develop arthritis and carpal tunnel in her hands. This makes it difficult for her to use the clutch. I wish there was some kind of automatic transmission option on a newer motorcycle!
There are at least 1 or 2 motorcycles, or bigger scooters with automatic transmission, you just have to look hard and be prepared for some “oddballs”.
For example, the BMW C650 Sport is an automatic transmissioned….sort of scooter. Or there is Honda’s VFR1200X with available dual clutch transmission.
No one starts with a 750 motorcycle, or at least they shouldn’t, so this model’s failure was pretty much a given. That hasn’t stopped Honda, though, as I believe that the company has produced other 700-750 sized automatic transmissioned motorcycles.
From the description of this bike’s transmission it almost seems like Honda came close to producing the forerunner of the dual clutch transmissions of today.
Go hit your Honda dealer. There’s a couple of the new 700cc vertical twin models (can’t remember model names as I’m writing this, one’s kind of adventure tourer-ish, the other is a sport tourer/cruiser, if that makes any sense) that are sporting automatics.
Haven’t had a chance to ride either, but if the transmissions work as well as the ones on the new Gold Wings, you’ll like it.
It depends upon the kind of riding you want to do and how prejudiced against scooters you are, the current generation of maxi scooters are twist and go CVTs, no clutch
Nothing could be easier to ride than one of these, they may be bulky but the centre of gravity is so low they feel like a lightweight
They are very stable with the long wheelbase and extremely practical vehicles, great for commuting, and getting from a to b conformably and economically
I would recommend a 400cc plus as they have good performance and hold 70mph easily. think Suzuki Bergman or Yamaha Majesty .
The sensation of the CVT is great and the acceleration liquid smooth, the only downside is high rear tyre wear from the smaller wheels.
I do appreciate vehicles designed to do a proper job, which the maxi scooter does well
I was about to suggest the Bergman. They’re decent on the highway and can carry a lot of gear!
They are both good vehicles, I prefer the Majesty aesthetically as the Bergman looks like it has been kicked up the arse, all modern sports bikes seem to have that arse in the air look
I like long low horizontal lines, like the 2002 Honda Helix I have , it has a proper boot/trunk as well but I appreciate the extra power and braking of the later Majesty.
Its quite surprising how quickly these things can change direction to get round that corner
I never drove a Honda 750 but did experience a HondaMatic in a Civic wagon around 1976 or 77. It was a loaner car while my mother’s 74 Luxury LeMans was in the body shop following some of my teenage stupidity. We had the bright yellow Civic wagon for maybe 2 or 3 weeks or so around the Christmas holiday.
It was a fascinating experience to me. I wanted to rag on how primitive it was, but it worked so smoothly. I saw it as more of an accommodation to those who couldn’t or wouldn’t shift gears than as a real automatic transmission. Shifting was optional if you didn’t mind leisurely acceleration. So of course I shifted every time in order to flog the best performance out of the poor little thing. I came away from the experience with a genuine respect for what Honda was doing.
Gah, no! A travesty.
Although I didn’t mind the 3 speed semi auto on my cousin’s Z50A mini trail.
Yikes, there’s three for sale locally for $4,000. No thank you, no thank you, and no thank you…
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-street-cruisers-choppers/kitchener-waterloo/three-1977-cb750a-hondamatic-motorcycles/1368518030?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Seems to me if you don’t have the coordination and dexterity of shifting and clutch actuation, maybe you shouldn’t be riding a motorcycle in the first place. A lot of control of the bike comes from up and downshifting at the proper time. This control aspect is not available in a auto trans. Plus, a heavy 750 bike is not for the beginner, starting out on a smaller bike and working your way up is a lot safer, experience is key if you want to avoid a wreck that could easily kill or maim you. And of course, their is also the matter of losing a lot of performance with a 2 speed auto.
I can see how something like this would be good for an older more experienced rider who is unable to work the clutch handle, but the market for this would be pretty small.
Seems like this was one of those “seemed like a good idea at the time” moments.
A lot of those arguments could also be made in relation to cars. Not an argument, just an observation/opinion. An involved driver is a more aware driver.
Very much in agreement with your observation. And by still driving a manual trans car today, you also get the extra benefit of having a very effective anti theft device at no extra charge.
https://q13fox.com/2014/06/22/thieves-attempt-carjacking-but-cant-get-away-in-a-stick-shift/
I’m afraid I have to agree. If someone can’t hand-clutch and foot-shift, can they also not use a twist-grip and hand-brake? It’s easy to see why the Hondamatic motorcycle didn’t succeed.
With that said, what about a complete limited-mobility motorcycle where the only use of the hands is for steering, just like in an automatic-equipped car? I can see a market for such a motorcycle, particularly one with a sidecar, not unlike some high-end Harleys. Seems like the market demographic for those Harleys might find some sales for older, experienced riders whose hand dexterity and coordination has severely diminished. Of course, if someone is going to go that far, well, there are plenty of alternatives like, say, one of those trikes where the drivetrain has been lifted from a small displacement, FWD car.
OTOH, yeah, using a motorcycle’s hand controls is part of the joy of riding one.
As a non-rider, I have a basic question: how hard is it to learn shifting on a motorcycle? Manual transmissions do make vehicles a lot more enjoyable, but I remember some dicey times and a lot of spinning tires/ lurching stops at the beginning. Add that to the possibility that your bike might topple over on you, and the learning curve seems pretty steep. Or is it pretty intuitive?
I don’t think I would call it intuitive. It’s no harder than operating a manual car, but as you say the learning curve is steep. I believe that ideally someone should start learning on a scooter. Light, low center of gravity, unintimidating, no clutch. Once they get comfortable steering and stopping, then start learning a motorcycle. I was fortunate enough to learn like that…
…But most people just throw themselves into the pool. I taught a college girlfriend how to ride my motorcycle and the first time she let the clutch out, she took off across the parking lot too scared to stop or steer and lost it in a grassy area. The bike was only a little scratched up (it was a cheap beater anyway) and she was more embarrassed than hurt. My fault for not being a better teacher. She did learn quickly, soon bought her own bike, and I believe she’s still riding today. I sold my last bike about 5 years ago, though I still find myself checking out what’s in Craigslist and dreaming.
It’s not intuitive, but it’s certainly easily learnable. I did it on my first day riding by stalling the bike out five times. On the sixth try, I was on my way down the road.
What can really get odd are the people with ‘reverse afflictions’ like my late wife. She easily took to the hand clutch/foot shift of a motorcycle, but could never catch on to the foot clutch/hand shift of a car.
I was thinking one of the more difficult things to master would be the foot-lever shift pattern of first gear all the way down, then neutral, followed by the remaining gears in sequence. Unlike a car, where it’s possible to select any gear at any time, you have to go through the gears in sequence on a motorcycle, necessary to repeat every time one slows down for a stop.
I can also easily believe this as a significant reason Honda thought an automatic transmission motorcycle might be a success and was worth the effort.
That’s mostly not an issue. How often do you need to shift from 1st to 4th (or whatever) without going through the intermediate gears? You really have no reason to. As long as the transmission is well-designed (some bikes are known for neutral being hard to find) and not worn out (cheap sport bikes especially will get thrashed and torn up by newbie riders). You crank up the engine in neutral (some have starter interlocks I believe), drop it in first once you get your safety equipment straight, off you go working up through the gears, then back down using engine braking as you slow. That may be what you’re forgetting: you are supposed to keep the engine engaged in the appropriate gear even while slowing or coasting. Rolling in neutral or with the engine declutched just should not be done.
I remember riding one of these hulks. The auto Trans slowed the thing to a crawl. It was probably the slowest, most boring 750 I have ever been on. The hondamatic became the butt of many jokes growing up.
I got to ride one of these around town once; one of the guys who ran the shop where I took my CB550 had one and let me take it out for a quick spin. As others have said it was slow, really really slow; to be honest this example may not have been at the top of its form as it had been sitting around for a couple of years. As others have also said shifting the gears is one of the key aspects of riding/controlling a motorcycle. I have only ridden a motorcycle a handful of times in the last 30 years or so and, now that I’m older and less coordinated, the concept of an automatic transmission on a bike no longer seems as strange as it once did.
I had both the 750 and the 450, great bokes but 750 was way to big for me. the 450 was great………….unfortunately carpal tunnel was trying to take over my wrists and it became difficult (painful) to ride. will always have love for the 450.
I have never ridden one and I don’t think I am interested to do so. However, I admire Honda for developing this AT. I just found an article on this topic. The Hondamatic was developed for a small car, kei car I suppose.
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1968hondamatic/page04.html
If you’re thinking of restoring a CB750A, make sure your bike has a transmission in good condition. There’s still a lot of the motor parts available, but the transmission bits have been out of stock for a couple of decades now.
Of course, the automatic has come back in a big way, starting with the sixth generation Gold Wing GL1800. Only now it’s a seven speed dual clutch automatic with manual operation available at the flip of a switch. Plus electric reverse, and a low speed electric crawl for parking.
The transmission works smoothly . . . . . . . and I hate it. God intended cars to have three pedals, and motorcycles to have two handlebar levers. Fortunately a manual six speed is also available.
The dual clutch is moving into just about all the new touring and cruising bikes that Honda makes. The Africa Twin comes with a choice between a traditional manual, and all their vertical twin 700cc models come with an automatic option nowadays.
I briefly rode a friend’s Honda Africa Twin with the DCT. This is a 1000cc “adventure” bike which is currently sold in the US (and also offered with a conventional 6 speed transmission). My friend is an experienced, older rider and likes it a lot. On my short ride, it worked very well but I was uncomfortable replying only on throttle control in low speed maneuvers, where normally on a motorcycle one also slips the clutch to more precisely regulate speed, and hence balance. As for these older 750A, 400A etc, they were not well regarded at the time, but that was in an era when even BMW or VW car drivers typically shifted for themselves. We’re in a different era now, so a quality automatic like the DCT on a touring bike may be a hit. I’m surprised Harley hasn’t done it.
“On parallel AXES?” Really? One AXE wasn’t enough? 🙂
I assume you know that “axes” is the correct plural of “axis”?
My Dear Sir, I read once that a good definition of a gentleman, is one who admits he was..WRO..WRO..cough..WRONG!! No, I in my 65 years, never knew axes was the plural of axis.. As they say..My Bad!
I had a ’75 Civic wagon with the Hondamatic. It was pretty weak when accelerating onto the freeway. There were numerous times that I had to come to a complete stop on the ramp and wait for a clear opportunity. That meant I initially had to decide whether or not I could successfully merge by accelerating, or if I had to come to a stop, or… decide that the traffic behind me would not stop behind me. That meant swerving onto the shoulder to avoid being rear ended! That was an awful lot of stress just to drive to work. It was fine around town and on 45 -50 mph. parkways. I remember the Auto 750. I wonder why Honda didn’t try it with the Gold Wing, it seems a more natural market.
See Syke’s comment a few posts above. It looks like Honda is doing exactly that.
I really like the non-shifting scooter analogy. Effectively, that’s what the Hondamatic 750 was: a scooter masquerading as a much pricier motorcycle. Slowly tooling around on a Vespa is one thing. Doing it on a big 750cc motorcycle is quite another. No wonder it bombed.
I am surprised Harley Davidson does not have auto transmission bikes. It seems like every other Harley I see nowadays is a tricycle ridden by a fat old guy.
(I am a fat old guy myself but I mostly rode Triumphs.)
The Two Speed Hondamatic on Two Wheels – do you think this qualifies?