Old cars are funny things in the way they affect people. Like how a relative’s unhappy experience in selling one old car led to my happy experience in finding another.
My Aunt Norma, several years after becoming widowed, married a widower in their small town. Art liked his Buicks and had kept one that he had bought new for his first wife – a white 1967 LeSabre convertible. At some point in the late 80’s, that northwest Ohio car underwent a great infusion of money and the car looked really nice again. But Art decided to sell and also decided that the way to get real money was to come to the Kruse auction being held in Indianapolis in the fall of 1990.
The Buick was nice and all, but a ’67 Buick didn’t do much for me. I knew that Art could squeeze the blood from a nickel and that he wanted far more for the car than I would be willing to give. The night before the auction, Marianne and I had taken them out to the Olive Garden. The OG was still fairly new at the time and was a really hot place on weekends – which meant that there was a significant wait for a table. Out of the corner of my eye, I spied a table being vacated in the bar and quickly said “follow me”. I felt like a hero finding a place for the older folks to sit instead of stand during our long wait. The waitress approached and Art piped up “Oh, we’re not drinking.” Art was not against drinking, just against spending money on drinks. For the people who had invited him to stay in their home. Aunt Norma was mortified and suggested to him “Oh, maybe they would like something.” I ordered a drink and I’ll bet Art made Aunt Norma pay for it. But that gets into a whole different story. Anyway, Art’s Buick was one time when I answered a quick, hard “no” to a car without much thought at all.
I had agreed to accompany them to the auction, which was held at the old Hoosier Dome in downtown Indianapolis. I spent a fair amount of time enjoying the cars at the auction, happy to be a mere observer. One particularly nice car there was a 1964 Imperial Crown Coupe that had been driven up from Louisville. It was a really sweet, straight original car that showed beautifully. Nice, I thought to myself, but I’m not interested in a car.
Awhile later, I saw that the Imperial had been a no-sale through the auction process and the guy had a price on a piece of card stock under one of the wipers. Hmmm, I said, that’s really nice, but I really wasn’t interested in a car today. I got to drive Art’s Buick through the auction ring – which was actually a lot of fun. Every time bidding started to slow I shouted out something noteworthy about the car to the auctioneer – like “He picked it up at the factory in Flint!”
The Buick did not get its turn for bids until quite late on Sunday afternoon, after much of the crowd had gone home. The winning bid was $3,700 and the buyer was delighted. But Art was fuming, as he had probably expected two or three times that amount. And in fairness to Art, he had been assured that his car would hit the auction ring in mid-afternoon, when peak attendance was expected. It was a quiet ride back to my house and they left for home. I don’t think Aunt Norma had a very pleasant trip.
But then I went into my basement and grabbed a reference book on old Chryslers. That stupid Imperial would not leave me alone and I wanted to see if Crown Coupes were as uncommon as I suspected they were.
“Hey Honey, I saw this car. It’s really nice. They made just over 5,000 of them. The guy wants under $4k for it.” She agreed to go back with me for a look. One of the benefits of the DINK lifestyle (double income, no kids) was that there always seemed to be a little extra money around for doing stupid things. The guy had told me how long he would be around, and that he really didn’t want to take it back to Louisville. We got back downtown in time, Marianne liked it and I (we, actually) suddenly owned an Imperial. Funny how that kind of thing can happen. And I found myself (or, actually, we found ourselves) the owner of the nicest old car I have ever owned.
This had been a long-time one-owner car that showed miles somewhere in the 80s, which looked accurate. The body was immaculate in its white paint and the black vinyl roof (one of the earliest of the breed) was in exceptional condition. The owner told me the car had been repainted once, but the quality of that work was first-rate. The chrome plating (both inside and outside) looked as close to new as it was possible to look after so many years. The interior was lovely as well, in brilliant white leather, with only the drivers seat showing some light cracking from wear. The car had power windows, power locks and working a/c.
And best of all, it had a pushbutton Torqueflite to go with the 413 V8 – which, strangely, was equipped with a 4bbl carb but a single exhaust.
What was it, I wondered, that every great old Mopar I found was – white? Growing up, almost every car my father picked out was white. My ’59 Fury had been white and my ’66 Fury had been white as well. But this car was in such fabulous condition that I did not mind. It actually looked really good in white. I remember the drive home – it had been awhile since I had owned something that big, and the width of the car took a minute for me to get used to again. But then all was good.
This Polaroid shot shows my garage on the right and the end of my neighbor’s garage on the left. It was tight quarters when the Imperial was in my driveway.
The other thing I had done in the way of quick preparation was call up my neighbor. My two-car detached garage was full, with a Ford Model A and a Thunderbird (or a Thunderbird kit, just add $$$$). Neither of them was a candidate for outdoor parking as neither was water-tight. And I wondered if 227.8 royal inches would even fit in my garage. (It would, but with no more than an inch of clearance).
Fortunately, my neighbor was a bachelor with a three, count ’em, THREE car garage facing the alley. He had not lived there long enough to fill it, and a monthly rental amount was quickly arranged. The Imperial’s lovely co-owner even sewed together some old bedsheets to make a nice car cover to keep the dust off in the garage.
I had always kind of thought of Imperials as bigger Chryslers – and mechanically, this one pretty well was. But when it came to the body and interior, it was nothing like any Chrysler I had ever seen. For example, I had never noticed the way in which the front sheet metal appeared to be a single piece from the place where the front fender met one door to the place where the other front fender met the other door. I knew that it could not have been one stamping, but saw how much hand-filling must have been done to conceal the seams. Plated die castings were all over the exterior, and the interior switchgear was lovely – heavy and expensive. The elegance of this car reminded me a lot of my long-gone 1963 Fleetwood. But where that was a conservative black sedan, the white Crown Coupe was a touch more sporting.
I must admit, though, that the Imperial’s body never gave off the same “bank vault” vibe that my old Cadillac had exhibited. The Imp suffered from just a touch of body flex and the doors, while solid, never sounded or felt quite as nice when closing. This Mopar homer was sad to acknowledge that for the new car buyer of 1963-64, the Cadillac might have satisfied in ways that the Imperial did not.
But there were things the Crown Coupe brought to the party that the Cadillac lacked. Like that same thick, manly kind of steering wheel that I had loved in my ’59 Fury and the speedometer with a thermometer-style display instead of the same kind of needle that had been in the cheapest Chevy Biscayne.
A shot from the internet of a instrument panel virtually identical to mine.
That speedo display was actually a bit of a mystery. I know how to read a thermometer, but the “mercury” of the Imp’s speedometer/thermometer led with an edge cut at a 45 degree angle. At commonly achieved speeds, the leading edge of the red stripe was 5 mph above the place where the red stripe hit full thickness. So I never really did figure out if, say, 45 mph was when the mark was hit by the leading point of the “mercury”, or where the “mercury” hit full width. I didn’t really sweat it, because I wasn’t tempted to drive this one at extra-legal speeds. The trade-off on the dash came in owning a luxury car with all 4 gauges – fuel, temp, amps and oil pressure – which was two more than Cadillac offered.
I also enjoyed becoming reacquainted with an automatic transmission operated by pushbuttons. Only where my ’59 Fury was parked by punching N and yanking on the emergency brake, the Imp used the updated system with its “Park” lever, so that pushing the lever from top to bottom put the transmission in park, making the hand brake more of an occasional-use thing.
The Imperial was everything an old car is supposed to be. It always started, ran beautifully, was comfortable and most of all, it was simply gorgeous. The big chrome bird at the end of that long hood, the comfy leather seats and the high-quality hardware inside made every ride a genuine treat. And with cold air conditioning being a push of a button away on a warm day, it was hard for old-car-life to get any better.
Except that I now found myself in a place I never imagined – was it possible to have too many cars? Let’s see – we had our two daily drivers (which now lived outside), and three toys – the Imp, the Thunderbird and the Model A. During this time we had our first child and Marianne had exited the workforce. So with a wife, the beginnings of a family and an old house to keep in shape, I found car-time being cut down fairly severely, and car-money being cut down even more. The easy answer, of course, was to dump the red Thunderbird because we really enjoyed the other two. But I had, by this time, been trying to do so for awhile with no success. Besides, even if I could sell it, the thing would not return any serious cash. My answer (the wisdom of which is up for discussion in the comments) was to advertise all three. The first one to sell would go away and life would go on with two hobby cars.
And wouldn’t you know it, the nicest one got the first bite. I didn’t really want to sell the car, because out of all of them it was the only one that was really, really right. The A was great, but the non-original paint color and interior fabric nagged at me a bit, and the Thunderbird was, well, just what it was. But the Imp was a quality car that only needed a few tiny things to turn it into a real showpiece and I parted company with it to the first guy who came to look. I made a little money on that one, but not enough to convince me to start flipping classics. We now had one more garage space and one less car.
This is a car shown in several online photos that I believe might very possibly be my old Imperial.
I think this is one car I have seen photos of online, and if I am looking at the right car, its next owner did right by it with some restoration of the leather on the driver’s seat cushion and some other things, likely including the a/c system that had stopped working some time in early spring of the year I put if up for sale.
I have always had a thing for big, 2 door luxury cars, and in the Crown Coupe, I had finally gotten one. It also kind of completed my set of collector cars, that had consisted of the project, the good driver-quality, and the one that is in stunning condition. Each had its benefits and its drawbacks – OK, the ThunderProject was all drawback. I never worried about the Model A getting a little paint chip or such because, while it was a very nice car, it was not the kind that racks up judging points. The Imp was really, really lovely, but it is probably best that it found its way to someone who had more time and was better able to care for something so beautiful.
The car did something else – it helped me discover just who I was. The Thunderbird proved that I was not the guy who comes home and spends all of his time in the garage cussing at an old car to the exclusion of his wife and family. The Model A proved that I did not need to be the guy who obsessed over perfection in an old car. And the Imperial proved that I was the guy who, once he had approached that perfection in an old car, did not crave more and more of it, but was happy to let it go, having enjoyed the experience. It was becoming clear that as large a part as old cars had played in my life, they were not as important to me as time spent with my young and growing family. For the first time, I could feel my priorities shifting. But I am glad they waited to start shifting after I got to own this fabulous car.
I really enjoyed hearing your experience with this lovely Imperial. I thought Engel did a tremendous job re-bodying this car on its longstanding platform. I’ve long been curious about what the experience with one was like, and now I know!
10 or 20 years earlier, a less-perfect example would have made a great daily driver. I would be surprised if I put 500 miles on this one, as it only got driven on the occasional weekend. It was a really nice driving car, though.
Absolutely. This is one gorgeous vehicle. Engel designed true masterpieces.
I too enjoyed your post. I had a ’66 Crown 4 door hard top. It was the first year for the 440 engine, and a few changes to the exterior design. The 1964 through 1966 were some of the most beautiful Imperials ever built. Engle did do a beautiful job with these years with the ’64 being the most stylish of them all. The split front grill is so impressive and the most historically Chrysler of the three years of that body. Also ’64 was the last year with push button drive, also a Chrysler hallmark. I sure was sorry to see those buttons go. I loved the sound they made when depressed. I loved that Imperial and still do. I would just tell you you were very lucky to find the one you did, and at such a great price for a near perfect all original car. I too had to let mine go due to space issues, at the time I had 8 cars and a motorhome, and things were getting too crowded, my parents said with all those cars around it looked like we were always hosting mafia parties. We are Italian and along with the Imperial, I had 4 Lincoln Town Cars, 2 Marks and a ’75 Colony Park. All huge cars and loved them all.
It’s a beauty. I had a similarly impressive 1963 Crown coupe in gold for a short time — last of the bullet-headlamp Exner models, and a childhood dream, once satisfied that was moved on (I had realized that a luxury car of any era fit neither the tight streets in my neighborhood, nor — quixotically — my working class self-image). The thing about these body-on-frame Imperials was how well they handled for such enormous cars. That and the dual Airtemp a/c, which was amazing: whisper-quiet and draft-free, giving a similar experience to being in a house with central air.
My car only had the single a/c system. I now remember the unusual dash-top vents that did double duty (IIRC) with the defroster. For a/c, they had to be pulled up from the dash surface so that they faced the passengers. In my car, any spring tension in the mechanisms had become loose, so unless the fan was one step above low, the vents would fall back down flat into the dash.
It was indeed a big car that was tough parking where I lived.
J P,
I’ve had many Chrysler cars with the 2 vents on top of the dash, and yes, the do tend to drop back to horizontal, especially when the car hits a big bump. My solution was to take a small piece of a matchbook cover, and wedge it between the moving vent and the vent’s housing. This allows you to position the vent as needed, and if the piece of cardboard is firmly installed, it will stay in place.
I’ve also had the same problem with a few 1955-56 Packards with factory A/C, and I found this solution worked with their vents as well.
Oh yes those a/c, defroster air vents used on full size Chryslers of the 60s were very unique looking and since hot air rises and cold air falls they were located in just the right places. And every Chrysler that had those vents had the problem of them not staying in the upright position. My family and many close friends drove full size Chryslers in the 60s and every one of them had to be propt up. I remember the common way was to fold up a paper match book and wedge it between the vent and it’s frame. So when I read your post and you mentioning it, I immediately thought back to the folded match books, like it was just yesterday. Ford used horizontal vents mounted in their dashes, and GM used a chrome thin vent in the middle and 2 chrome balls at each end of the lower dash that I also thought was very cool. As a kid in the 60s, I thought air conditioning in cars was (no pun intended) very cool. I would always check the lower right side of the rear window of Chryslers and Chevrolet cars for the little sticker indicating the car was air conditioned. It was still a fairly new option at the time so the manufacturers would point it out with those stickers. Except Ford, they never used stickers.
The photos of the Imperial in the driveway make me think of how multiple tug boats are used to maneuver aircraft carriers and other huge vessels into tight docking spaces.
I’ve claimed that my Tacoma’s 221.3 length makes it a tad awkward in the local supermarket parking lot during holiday shopping days, but your 227.8 inch Imperial beats that number and must have been a task best done delicately. And add to that the fact that the Imperial did not have a backup camera.
Back in the late 1950s to the mid 1960s I too felt that “difference” between GM and Chrysler’s high end cars. GMs were soft, solid, and gentle. Chryslers were hard, less solid, and more forceful. It seems this was a bit more of a subjective feeling than an objective experience.
“… as large a part as old cars had played in my life, they were not as important to me as time spent with my young and growing family…. .
Well put. I think most people would call that wisdom tempered with age and experience. And it didn’t cost a bundle to have, enjoy, and eventually release.
I think you have summed up the difference between the subjective feel of the old Cadillacs and Imperials pretty well. I always kind of wanted an early 60s Lincoln to round out the experience. But maybe I kind of did that with the Thunderbird (in a very imperfect way). Both the Cadillac and the Imperial were amazingly light on their feet for their mammoth size and weight.
Very pretty car, I think that white is just right for this. Black is too common, and some of the other colors may be less dignified. Very nice.
It’s no surprise of course that the Imperial won (lost?) the “which one will go first” contest. I know it was hopeless, but I would have been pulling for someone to take the Thunderbird and leave you your Imperial. As long as it stayed in as good shape as it was, it would have been perfect for a growing family 😉
Nice Polaroids! The use of peel-apart Land film adds a nice period-correct (to a 1964 car) touch for the photos.
I grouse about white cars, but the old ones with lots of chrome brightwork can look pretty good. And I really liked that white leather inside!
I remember enjoying the results when I played around with that old Polaroid camera – they looked very much like period photos, which I found cool.
I’ve come to fell that big US luxo boats look best in black, white, or best of all silver. Our ’76 98 was silver with a silver vinyl roof and red cloth interior and that combo became a favorite, as the chrome/stainless trim just worked so well with it, more so than with over various colored 98s, Cads and Lincolns we had. That CC is just magnificent.
+1 on white cars looking best with chrome brightwork. Several of last two cars have been white and the only one that looked good in that color was a 2017 Ford Fusion SE. The other cars, like many modern vehicles, had very little chrome trim and just look far too plain in white.
That garage seems oddly oriented for that lot, it doesn’t look easy to deal with. My dream garage involves something like a 6 car tandem (double length 3car) but with doors on both ends and another set of parking pads on the far side, or if in your case with the alley behind it oriented 90 degrees with access from both the street and the alley. And it would need to blend harmoniously with its surroundings too…
I didn’t realize yours was the coupe, it’s quite nice. I like the color, the front, and the side, the tail treatment always left me wanting something…more. Maybe larger full width lights or a panel or something besides that round thing in the middle of the bumper. Or maybe it’s just the way the taillights seem to squint, I don’t know.
At least you realized something had to give, the alternative is to sooner or later become “that guy” with one of the cars on the lawn, another in the alley, and the rest stacked in the driveway. And you can always buy another great example of any of the three cars you had at the time if the desire really strikes!
Yes, that garage was a challenge. I got really good at backing up that long narrow driveway because backing in was the only way to turn a big car tight enough to get in.
I don’t know if I would have bought this if it had been a garden variety 4 door. I knew convertibles were really rare and that the coupes were only a little more plentiful. And I always really loved that rear end.
And I thought having to do a five-point turn in the back yard when I started driving Dad’s Falcon was difficult! This Imperial would never have fitted in the driveway. 🙂
Have always admired this series of Imperial (’64 thru ’66).
In my dream garage, would have ’66 Imperial, Lincoln, & DeVille.
Something to make smile each morning!!☺️☺️☺️
Agreed on the Caddy and the Imp, but I for one would go for a slightly earlier Lincoln, like a 61-63….
But man, the 64-66 Imperial is a fine-looking machine. There are people who look down on it because of the cowl / windshield, which is pretty obviously the same other Mopar cars had back in the late 50s. So what? The whole design is worth more than the sum of its parts, windshield included. And it even looks good in white, which is not always the case.
What a rich seam your COALs are, Mr JPC!
Thank you !
I’m pretty sure the Imperial windshield isn’t shared with other ’57 and later Mopars, as the Imperial was a few inches wider than the rest of them and was the first to get curved side glass which the windshield and A pillar would have to meet up with.
While on the subject of the windshield, I (like many others) find the fishbowl windscreen looks dated on the 4 door sedans, yet somehow on the coupe it looks right and is reminiscent of the big, elegant Mercedes hardtop coupes of the era.
I want to like these but there is something just a bit off. In person they look ponderous with a body that sticks too far out from the tires. The rear window is too chunky and the curved windshield clashes with the straight body lines (as Paul has often pointed out). The dashboard is also a disappointment. If I wanted excess, I’d go for the prior generation. If not, I’d love the clean canted dashboard of the 67 model, and the better integrated look overall.
How was the gas mileage, or should I not ask? Did the BOF structure constrain legroom? For all my misgivings, I would love to drive one at least once. This is the last generation that Tom McCahill unreservedly loved.
I never drove it enough to worry about gas mileage, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t as awful as my 63 Cadillac had been. I don’t really recall the BOF thing being a legroom problem, but then I never rode in back.
You had a real gem with this Imperial. Your reasons for parting with it make complete sense.
At some point in time I read about the amount of time and filling material (can’t remember what) used to smooth the header panel into the fenders. When seeing an Imperial that is one of the first things I inspect, for whatever reason.
Your garage looks nice but appears to be a pill to access. The upshot is having it would definitely keep one’s driving skills sharpened.
The lead picture would look good framed and hanging on your office wall.
I’d say that garage would take about 8 or 9 back-and-forths to get in or out!
Yes, that garage was a mixed bag. So many houses in the neighborhood had a dinky single car unit, if any at all. And I liked the concrete drive in front of it, which was good for a lot of things.
I think that opening shot was taken the day I sold the car. It did come out nice.
As it happens, I got a few photos of a ’64 Imperial, complete with Goldwater-Miller bumper sticker, a little over a week ago. A reverse CC effect?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/12119356@N00/albums/72177720302841181
Nice car!
I remember those Goldwater stickers – AuH2O
This is one of my favorite cars of all time. I saw one at a car show recently, and even had my picture taken in front of it… I can’t say there’s too many cars I would do that for.
And if I happened to stumble across one like you did – good condition, a good deal, and before kids – I wouldn’t have been able to resist. I’m glad you got to experience Imperial ownership!
Oh, and your aunt’s husband Art sounds like he could just as easily been a member of my family…
It’s true, sometimes you just can’t not buy the car. And yes, Art was one of a kind.
Nice car. I had a friend who had a 66 Crown. It was a nice experience. As to the odd angle of the garage, sometimes in snow country garages are positioned more for snow removal than easy access. With the set up shown, snow could be plowed past the garage and into the backyard rather than a snow bank piled in front of an easy access garage that would then need to be shoveled.
Nice car and the one I would have chosen to keep from your fleet,
Your comments on the speedo remind me of a ride I had in a late-50s Dodge belonging to friends of my parents. IIRC, this is how it looked at standstill, 20 mph, 22 mph, 25 mph, and 27 mph.
I’d seen speedos like the ones in your car, but my grade-school-age mind had to chew a bit on how this one worked. I figured that in the cars I’d seen, the boundary between the red and the black on the rotating drum was at an angle. On this car it was a stairstep effect.
Very lovely car; a brief but memorable fling. I feel your love and loss. This is the one I forgot you had, as there’s been very few mentions of it here over the years.
There was a wealthy older widow who lived on our block in Iowa City, and she drove Imperial coupes, and got a new ’64 or ’65 not long before we left. It was parked in a carport, and I’d go and admire it whenever the mood struck. I did rather like the wild previous one better, most of all for its utterly over-the-top instrument panel, which I could stare at for a long time. She must have wondered where all the smudges on the driver’s side window came from.
We never had a DINK period, and living in an apartment in Santa Monica was not conducive to collecting really nice cars, so I never went there. Lots of old Peugeots saved from the wreckers and such, and an old MGB-GT that mostly sat. I dreamed a lot about cars like the ones you bought, but it just never happened. But I can live vicariously through your stories.
But you have a long white vehicle with two doors, an upright windshield, and a large cargo space built by the same company, so you’re 99% there. 🙂 The Imperial Promaster!
😂😂
I also grew up near an elderly neighbor couple who kept a pair of Imperials – a white 64 and a gold 67. They had been bought used and the 64 got traded on a dark green 72 after the old one started getting rusty around 1976 or so. The 64 was always my favorite of the 3.
Wow, what a beauty! Most of the cars in your COAL series so far were ones that I have heard you mention on this site over the years, but I don’t recall this one. While big luxury cars have never been my thing, the Cadillac, Lincoln’s and Imperials from this era are some of my favorites. I actually have fond memories of a white ’65 Imperial just down the road from my Grandparents place as a kid, a car that I always though exuded such elegance. This was the era of the last great US luxury cars IMO. After this period it seemed be the long slide to mediocrity. It’s too bad the fling with the Imperial was brief, because it seemed to be your ultimate classic.
My wife and I had a significant period of being “DINKS” but I can’t say that I ever indulged in the old car game too much. It wasn’t that I didn’t want too, there were tons of old car deals that tempted me. However, being raised by an immigrant family resulted in a lot of fiscal conservatism, so I typically bought older cheap cars that no one wanted like GM B-bodies. We put all are money into our home and other long term investments rather than buying old cars like I really wanted. Looking back at stories like yours it does make me somewhat regret this, but then again, like you my priorities shifted, so that regret only lasts for a short time.
I at least stayed relatively sane in my old car choices. I certainly spent less money all in all than I would have with many other hobbies. But you are right that priorities change with time.
Yes, you made very sane choices and didn’t spend excessively in IMO. No judgement at all. Plus, I have almost always had at least one old car, so it’s not like I was spending no money on the car hobby. I just sometimes wish that maybe I had not passed up on some old cars back when they are were cheap and more plentiful. Instead, I live vicariously through one of my friends who’s probably had something like 50 classic cars. We are polar opposites, I keep mine forever, he loves to buy and sell.
You have to find the right balance during different periods in your life. Demands and responsibilities change, usually there are growing numbers of both as we mature. Moving from single person, to couple, to family person, requires that we make changes in our priorities.
Since I have always worked with younger people, I’ve often been kind of a mentor. My advice to my younger co workers has always been, “Take proper care of your responsibilities, but always hold onto a little something for yourself.”
I’m emerging from a period of owning a lot of different cars. My dream for a long time was to get a place in the country and build a big enough workshop to hold all my cars. As I was approaching complete retirement I realized, after much discussion with my Wife (!), that the smart and practical thing was to stay in our current home. While it only has a two car garage I had managed to accumulate six cars, seven if you include my Daughter’s car. I’d even done the Jeff Foxworthy approved thing, of tucking one in my side yard, nothing was ever parked on the lawn. I do have my standards!
While I was still working, I’d drive a different car to work each week. After I retired most of the cars just sat. Since I planned on staying put, I realized that I should just cut down the number of cars to fit my situation. So I have divested myself of two, but picked up another. I still have two cars that will probably be sold- eventually. It’s not as easy as it seems, sometimes nobody wants your old cars, especially at a decent price! I let the first two go cheap, because I wanted them gone. I might have to do the same thing for the second two. ( Hint, motivated seller!)
Still, I’ve had the pleasure of owning many different motorcycles and cars over the years. so no regrets there. I’ve finally managed to keep two cars in the garage, and if and when they are gone, I’ll probably pick up something else. But I’m in no hurry.
I suspect your ’64 drove a lot like my ’62. Same 413 V-8 w/ single exh., push-button trans, bubble windshield, super-easy power steering, wide like a motorhome, and 227″ overall length! The same speedometer ribbon with the diagonal end, and doors that slammed harshly instead of the “solid click” of the Fisher Body GM’s. However, I would rate the Imperial’s ride and handling superior to Cadillac’s. Buying new in ’62, I would choose Imperial.
So why would I get rid of a car like that? To buy a ’62 Mercury Monterey (which also had the bullet taillights) with only 60K, in much better condition. And why did I get rid of the Mercury? To buy a ’59 Chevy, which I’ve always considered to be the ne-plus-ultra of ’50s cars.
Onward and upward!
(Photo is of the actual car, being sold by the person I sold it to!)
I wish my experiences with both the Cadillac and the Imperial had been closer in time and with cars in more comparable condition. My memory is that I was surprised that the Imperial was as fast as I remember the Cadillac.
A 62 or 63 would have been cooler, but neither of those is what I saw at that auction. I must differ with you on the 59 Chevy – one of those never appealed to me. Fortunately you have enthusiasm for them, so it all evens out.
Imperial>Mercury>Chevy. Exact opposite of the progression automakers wanted to encourage. Of course, considering the comparative styles, the progression of Odd>Bizarre>Otherworldly does make sense.
This Imperial was an interesting diversion that I don’t think you’ve mentioned in your previous Curbside writings. These were new when I was quite young and just forming my car consciousness, but even then, I remember that Imperials were seldom seen on the road. The one I was most familiar with was owned by an elderly neighbor who parked it on the street near my mother’s family’s house on the Jersey Shore. It was a 1964 4-door resplendent in a dark green with a black vinyl top and lasted until 1970 or so. During our visits each summer, I was fascinated by its silhouette and immediately spotted its resemblance to the George Barris-customized Imperial featured in the Green Hornet television series. The primary giveaway was that curved windshield!
I remember being able to ID the Green Hornet car too.
What a handsome car! The front end is oversize in terms of grille height, adding to its personality. The rear is a great look. The instrument panel is quite well laid out.
If this car has survived until today, it’s a great honour for who owns it now.
Imagine buying a 26 year old car now and it being in this great a shape. That would be a 1996 in today’s terms.
Yes, that car had survived so long in great condition that it probably made it out of the danger zone of deterioration by regular use. You are right, a 25 year old car isn’t that special now.
I like your drawing — that’s exactly the same type of speedometer used in our neighbor’s ’61 Plymouth back in the day. it looks like red liquid filling each black “bucket.”
My aunt’s ’61 Olds 88 also had a thermometer speedo. In that car, the drum holding the indicator would rotate from green to orange at 35 mph, and then to red at 70. The thermometer type is so much easier to read than the strip speedos with a needle — for the latter, the typical highway speed numbers are all crunched together.
Yes, I figured that was a reply to me! Today is Sunday, so I’m home. I remoted in to my work computer, whomped up the graphic in AutoCAD, and took a screen shot. I’d never thought of it in terms of liquid filling buckets–your turn of phrase is very apt. Did you think it was cool at the time? I did!
The things we do to comment on CC ….
Yes, I was mesmerized by that speedometer in the Plymouth! So many cars had fascinating speedo designs in the late 50s into the mid-60s.
The last comment was supposed to be a reply to Staxman.
Jim, what a beautiful Imperial! I’ve always liked the 1964-66 models and especially the ’64 with the split grille. The carryover wraparound windshield never bothered me; in fact, I find it charming!
I am with you on the windshield – a little old fashioned, but it added to the charm. And my front end treatment preference was 64, 65 and 66 in that order.
The Volvo 122S (I owned one, as did my parents) had a similar speedometer and I always assumed the tip of the “arrow” indicated the speed; it never occurred to me that it would be anything else. Then someone drove my car and asked where on the red strip to read the speed. So I guess it’s not obvious – and perhaps not correct to assume it’s the tip.
“and perhaps not correct to assume it’s the tip”
I still don’t know.
I’m with you. I’d bet a 5-liter jug of synthetic oil that it’s the tip. If it isn’t the tip, then you need to mentally draw a line from the scale to the appropriate point on the opposite side of the ribbon. No offense to those who interpret it the other way, but IMO it’s a no-brainer.
I haven’t seen a ribbon speedo up close in a long time, so the attached graphic is a generic ribbon speedo.
The markings show up better if you click on the JPEG.
My mom’s ’76 Lincoln Town Car had the ribbon type speedometer and it too had the angled leading edge. I always thought the actual speed was the number where the tip of the point was. Those early 70s Town Cars had very nice dashboard. The ashtray was in the middle and was easily the largest ashtray I ever saw in a car. The Town Car had full gauges placed on both sides of the steering column along with an analog Cartier clock. It all was illuminated in a very cool teal color at night. Actually all Ford dash lights from 1963 to 1997 used that same color illumination and I will tell you I loved driving at night just to see that color. Sounds crazy but it’s true. On subject of dash illumination, the 1961 and ’62 full size Chryslers win first prize for their “Panelesent’ as Chrysler called it, the gauges seemed to glow in that bluish green color. So cool.
My mom’s ’76 Lincoln Town Car had the barrel speedometer too. That was cool.
Another well found and loved classic .
-Nate
»low whistle« Ooer. That is a honey of a car, and the ’64 Imperial ties with the ’65 for my favourite—’65 has glass-covered headlamps, but ’64 has pushbuttons. Make mine an imaginary ’64½ with both, plus the export lighting system on this rough ’66.
Yeah, that’s the inevitable perpetual gritchment with this kind of speedometer. The same valid complaint was made about the same kind of speedometer on the pre-1973 Volvo cars.
Two things bug me about this: first off, what handbrake? The parking brake was a foot pedal. And I don’t guess I’ll ever understand not using the parking brake because the transmission has a Park position. It throws a big extra load on the parking pawl if the car is parked on any kind of a grade, and if it’s a steep enough one, good luck getting out of Park. But aside from that, how does it make any sense to scorn a parking brake that’s there for a really good reason? I’m not trying to throw darts (or Darts) at you personally here; you’re far from the only one who considers the parking brake optional like this. I just plain don’t understand it.
My 59 without the parking pawl made the brake mandatory. With a “normal” car, I live in flat terrain and usually don’t see the need for the brake. I figure they engineered the park mechanism to withstand a minor load. If I’m on any kind of hill at all, I use the brake for just the reason you give, with brake on first, then into park..
My take on parking brakes is the same as with seat belts: almost 100 per cent of the time, you don’t need your seatbelt. But the need arises suddenly, and then it’s too late to decide whether or not to use it.
Daniel,
In 2006 I was bringing up a pallet of building supplies to my father in law’s home in Lawrence, NY. I was on the Verrazano bridge heading into Long Island, NY when I ran over the remains of a truck tire tread. I hit the brakes and they went to the floor. The truck was a Ford E350 diesel van and I had a ton of patio pavers in the back. Being a diesel, I had no engine braking, so I shifted the trucks automatic trans into 2nd and stomped on the e-brake.
I was very surprised when the e-brake held and quickly lowered my speed from about 60 down to 20. I moved into the right lane and took the first exit at the end of the bridge. After pulling off the roadway, I did a spot inspection and found a big piece of truck tire wedged between the frame and the brake proportioning valve, breaking off both hydraulic lines to the front & rear wheels.
When I stomped on that e-brake pedal, and I stomped on it HARD, my immediate belief was that the heavy action would destroy the back brakes, but they held together and really had a positive effect on the truck’s speed reduction. A good working e-brake can save your life!
Parking brakes! That’s something that always bugged me, too. It seemed whenever I had any work done on my one and only automatic car, wherever I took it, when I went to collect it, it’d be in Park with the handbrake off. Nice easy lever between the seats, see it as you’re climbing in, but no……
Yup, same here. Another thing: in most places the law requires drivers to set the parking brake. Let there be some kind of a mishap, and even if it was not caused or aggravated by a failure to use the P-brake, that certainly wouldn’t stop an insurance company saying “The parking brake wasn’t engaged at the time, so your claim is denied and we’re putting up your rates”.
I live in a state that requires annual inspections. A fully operational parking brake is part of that inspection. The worst thing for a parking brake is to not use it. Rust will render it useless. Use it every 500 miles just to keep the parts moving at least. In the event of a brake failure you’ll be glad you did.
You also raise a great point about the name – Is it Handbrake? Emergency Brake? Parking Brake? I tend to use all three interchangeably no matter how the thing is engaged. The Imperial used a foot pedal – with an automatic vacuum release, as I recall.
And which kind is best? I suspect that the pedal offers more leverage for better actual stopping ability in emergencies, but it is probably harder to modulate. My 59 Plymouth used a big T handle under the dash (as have a few other cars). The modern practice (from European/Japanese cars) with the big lever between the seats is probably the easiest to use.
“. . . the big lever between the seats is probably the easiest to use.”
As a result of the Munich Olympic Massacre and other early terrorist scenarios, In 1974 the US Army Europe decided to teach a course in Anti-terrorist driving. I was stationed in Mannheim, Germany as a motor pool sergeant. As a former member of the Military Police and currently driving a dirt track race car in local German events for fun, I was “invited” to attend the first US Army anti-terrorist driving school near Heidelberg.
All the cars in the course were small 4 cylinder Mercedes-Benz sedans with automatic gearbox. One of the many special techniques we learned was the 180 degree turn without stopping. This basically required the driver to turn the wheel hard to the left and at the very same time pull up hard on that emergency brake, then as the car came to a tire-screeching stop, the driver released the e-brake and hit the gas. If done correctly, the car and occupants were now headed in the opposite direction.
Several of us voiced a comment to the Army brass overseeing the course about the fact that NONE of the US Army sedans or trucks had the center mounted e-brake!
Not really my kind of car, and I’d probably enjoy the Buick more. But the white paint/black top/whitewall tires along with the chrome, look really good. Admittedly I’m a fan of white cars, but that mix of black and white is pretty stunning. The Buick would look even better with a black (and not faded to gray) top also.
I normally like almost any color with white besides black, but it really worked on this one – especially with that white leather.
The Imperial was rare when built. Even more scarce today. Thanks for a great write-up that helps explain this whale to posterity.
In the 70s & early 80s, I could still be buy a very serviceable Mopar from the 50s & 60s cheaper than a GM or Ford model in similar condition. I went through a succession of their pushbutton models for that exact reason. Never an Imperial though. One of my regrets.
I miss those days of cheap old Mopars. Good ones, I mean – cheap Dodge Dynasties and K Imperials are cheap for good reasons.
I don’t remember the year, but I had one of these for all of two months. I saw the rear end sticking out of a snow bank behind a gas station in town near me. I saw it sitting there for several months, and I stopped by one day to ask the owner what was the deal with the Imperial. He told me it had been left for service by a customer who never came back to get it. The guy owed him several hundred dollars, this was in 1977 I believe. Said if I wanted it I could have it, but there was no paperwork. So of course I said hell yeah! A friend of mine and I went down with snow shovels and a battery, and after several hours of digging and fussing with it we got it started. Aired up the tires and drove it out of there. It was a pretty rough example. But, it ran great, and it was kind of fun to have a beater Imperial. A month or two later, the owner showed up. Mind you this was more than a year after he’d last been seen at the gas station. He wanted his car back. To be fair he offered to pay me some money for it $200 I think it was, which seemed reasonable enough. So that was my brief experience with a rough Imperial. Even in the shape it was in it was a hell of a car. It was definitely powerful, comfortable, everything worked but the air conditioning. I’ve always had a soft spot for those cars.
That sounds like a great way to experience a cool car!
I just noticed a little oddity in the close-up photo of the dashboard. The odometer features black numerals on a white background (except for the tenths digit on the trip odo). I recall GM used to do it this way during the postwar years up to about 1957 or so, then switched to white numerals on a black background, which in turn was used until the 1990s conversion to digital odos.
I’m now wondering when Mopar made the switch to white numerals.
I don’t know about Imperials, but my ’65 Chrysler has white numbers on black.
You made me start looking – it seems like Imperials used white numbers on black up through 1960 (I didn’t check back before 1956) then switched to black numbers on white in 1961 through 66, then switched back. I am not sure that other Mopar brands followed the same pattern. It looks like both my 59 and 66 Plymouth Furys used white numbers on black.
That is a great car. The ’64 is not my favorite Imperial (probably ’62 or ’67) but that color combo on a 2 door is just classy and sharp.
I think the 64-66 is the perfect average between the ones with real personality (63 and earlier) and the understated elegance of the Chrysler-based 67-68s. But almost any of them would have gotten under my skin.
The ’64 to ’66 Imperials were beautiful cars and one of my favorites. So stately, elegant and majestic looking. And the interiors are just sumptuous. This is my favorite generation of Imperial, immediately followed by the ’67-’68 version. And I also really like the ’61-’63 models but they come in third after these other two versions. However, the ’64-’66 models were still built on the 1957 chassis. At least the cowling and windshields were the same.
My favorite ’64 to ’66 Imperial was my 1965 LeBaron Ghia Limo, #9 of 10 built. I bought it from the estate of the original owner about 1990. The original owner was a Mr. Jones from St. Louis, and he owned all the rights to Mutual of Omaha insurance sales east of the Mississippi. He maintained an office in a 14 floor office building in Washington, DC, but was rarely there. He owned the entire building. Deep down at the bottom level of the building’s garage was a separate single car garage space behind a locked garage door. Inside was the Ghia Imperial limo.
He was seldom in Washington, and while the limo was kept ready for use at all times, it was typically used only to go to & from Redskins football games, and he usually transported Redskin’s coach Joe Gibbs to the games, and then to dinner with friends afterward the game. When I found the car it had a total of 5,702 miles showing, and was original right down to the special tires, a very hard to find M-78X15 size.
The car was delivered in 1966 to the Alexandria, VA Chrysler dealer just outside Washington; Al’s Motors. Because of it’s high retail price, the car sat on the lot until Mr. Jones bought it in the spring of 1969, as a new car.
I found out about the car’s location after Mr. Jones died. To settle his huge estate, the car needed to be sold. One of his estate attorneys called me and asked me to appraise the car so it could be sold. I came down to the office building, and on seeing the car I had to own it. Problem was, as an appraiser it would be unethical to appraise the car and then place an offer to purchase it.
I explained the situation to the attorney. He told me the car was “a trifle” in what was a multi-million dollar estate, and if I wanted it, I should simply tell him what I could pay. I knew how much money I had in my personal checking account, and I figured I would offer most of that as a deposit, and then pay the balance from my business checking account once I was back at the shop. So I told him how much I could give him today, and before I could say anything else, he said “SOLD, my work here is complete!”
I sold it a few years later, and as I watched it leave my long driveway, I instantly regretted the sale. As far as I know, it’s still in the same owner’s large car collection in the Chicago area.
In the early 1980s, as an accepted court expert in transportation concerns, I was hired by an attorney who had been given a traffic ticket for speeding on Connecticut Avenue in the town of Chevy Chase, MD. The ticket was for 4 MPH over the 25mph limit, and the attorney was angry about getting a ticket for driving only a few miles over the limit. He had been driving an older Imperial convertible [I think it was a 64, but might have been a 65].
I was aware of the ribbon speedometers used in MoPaR and GM cars, and knew it was impossible to accurately know exactly what your speed was, and none of the car owner’s manuals said the speed was determined at the top or the bottom of the slanted end.
I took photos [at various speeds] of the speedometer ribbon indicator with the slanted end. In court I testified that it was impossible to know what your exact speed would be, and I pointed out the Federal DOT regulation only required speedometers to be within 5 mph of accuracy, and the speedo in the car was approved for use by the SAE and DOT. I suggested that the slanted end of the ribbon indicator was a 5mph difference, and combined with the 5mph DOT allowance, meant with the car in question, it would be a reasonable expectation of a 10mph variance.
The judge agreed, and dismissed the $35 ticket. The attorney was very happy and gladly paid me my $150 fee for a half day in court.
The judge went further, and criticized the police officer and the town’s police in general for knowingly violating the state court’s policy of not issuing speeding tickets for under 12 mph.
But, but…there were no federal safety standards applicable before Jan. 1, 1968, and the federal DOT itself didn’t exist until 1966.
I know, those facts were in my “reserve volley” of facts if the judge wasn’t buying my initial statements! I’ve always tried to keep my facts down to a manageable level, too many claims can muddy the water. Many judges still equate antique and vintage cars as just older versions of the common cars they deal with daily.
Yahbut, the speedo in the car was approved for use by the SAE and DOT wouldn’t be accurate even if the car had been made after 1/1/68. There is nothing such as “DOT approval” or “SAE approval”. DOT does not approve or disapprove anything; they do not have the legal authority nor any mechanism for doing so. And SAE is not a regulatory body in a position to approve or disapprove of anything.
Daniel, that is true, and my mistake in wording. Thanks for the correction.
I thought I remembered trying to figure out that speedo with reference to the owner’s manual – and failing. I feel much better – not even a legitimate, credentialed expert knows how to read that one!
J P, I suspect that even upon close inspection of the spec sheets for these speedometers at manufacturers like Stewart-Warner or Delco, we would fail to find an explanation.
It’s entirely possible that GM and Chrysler interior designers told the suppliers they wanted a graduated ribbon drum speedometer, simply because it looked good and the public would like it. Back then, no one in the government cared, and the few safety organizations had far more important dangers to worry about!
What a marvelous automobile, and again a good experience to go with it.
Our DINK years were spent being nervous about how much money we’d borrowed to buy our house (which now seems like a laughably small amount) and there was no time or money for nice old cars. That and somehow I get a lot of enjoyment out of tinkering with hopeless projects, it’s a disease…
I like to think that if I had never bought the car the $ might have ended up in my 401k. The investment in the car was better than the retirement account in the last year and I got to have the car too. 🙂
DougD,
At least you were DINKs and not DUNKs [Dual Unemployed, Nine Kids!]
Went to look at a Crown Coupe that was for sale in the 80s. Most beautiful used car ever. Passed on it, and I don’t even recall why. Biggest mistake of my life.
Some folks about 4 blocks away form us were still motoring about in a”4dr” Imperial like this in the late 1970’s.
They had a garage behind the house that the “yacht” could drop anchor in.
The man died about 1980.
The lady remained in the house until around 1990-91.
I believe the “Horizon” she drove then was a 1983 model. That garage and the only occasional use kept it quite new/dapper as well.
What a car, and what an open and clearly honest tale about your history with it and the higher priorities you had.
So tempting to follow up an online ad, but can you go back on a car? It looks stunning, then and now.
Thanks Roger. Some of my cars were lucky I owned them, but with this one, I was lucky to own it.
A beautiful car that should have been the beginning of beautiful friendship. My timeline is a bit different, and was a bit shorter, but similarly went through a classic car era and multi-car ownership that ended when the practical demands of domestic tranquility came calling. Even had the same garage, but thank God it was not a side-load, just inconveniently tucked about 30% behind the house, making the second stall anything but a straight shot.
Just a lovely car, but will admit I’ve always looked at its greenhouse with a bit of a raised eyebrow. It was Paul that pointed out it managed to take the 1957 cowl and windshield all the way through 1966. When brought to my attention, I went through some denial, a bit of grief and finally acceptance. It’s a very different car from the 1957 wrapped around that windshield.
It’s the C pillar that gets me on this car, especially on the coupe. The entire greenhouse seems like it was from another car, just set on the body. To me, the convertible is by far the best looking Imperial of this generation.
It struck me as a bit odd that Chrysler ever released this car, a year before the 1965 C body Mopars made their successful debut. The 1967 Imperial that finally joined the unibody brigade would have looked very fine along with the 1965 Chryslers and Plymouths in the showroom. The 1965 New Yorker was very stiff modern competition among the more moneyed Mopar set for this car.
I think they absolutely had to address the Imp ASAP if they expected to sell any at all by 1964-65. I like the roofline, but will acknowledge that the deck is a touch long. But the interior more than makes up for it.
I wish you had gotten to enjoy the Imperial a little longer but I fully understand life’s circumstances made it a better idea to sell at the time. I took some pics of this one a few years ago and I think it was the same color scheme but with a black leather interior. I would have to find the SD card to look at the other pics to confirm. It appeared to be an original car with the period correct license plates for CA in 1964. I wasn’t fully aware until I began reading Paul’s analyses here at CC that these cars were far from all new for 1964. A skillful job at making them appear to be if you miss the windshield/A-pillar continuity from years earlier. I like them more today than when they were new – yours is a particularly handsome car – but that rear styling still looks too gimmicky. I’ll take a 64 Cadillac or Lincoln Continental.
I’ve had one [or more] of each: 1964 Imperials, Cadillac Fleetwood 60s, Lincoln convertible.
Lincoln was a fuel hog. Body was always twisting on less than smooth roadways. Had electrical gremlins under the dash & in the front doors. Constant little repairs required to keep it on the road and safe.
Cadillac had A/C problems, electric window motors stopped working on a regular basis, Steering was far more vague than the Imperials.
The Imperials [I’ve had several] had very little mechanical repairs, most were for starters and voltage regulators, so I tried to keep one of each in the cars. I had a bolt-on flat tow bar hitch, and I used the Imperials as long-distance tow vehicles because they performed so well on long open stretches while towing other luxury cars I collected.
By 1964 those chassis components were pretty well sorted-out
Having owned a restoration shop that specialized in luxury cars, I’ve worked on/restored quite a few of each, and the Lincoln body twist, while it was improved compared to the earlier versions, it never measured up to the “solidness” of the Cadillacs or Imperials. And I am comparing convertibles, not closed cars.
That’s hardly surprising. The Lincoln was a unibody as well as having four doors. That was simply beyond their abilities at the time. The BOF convertibles had it easy: just strengthen the frame some more. And a two door body is intrinsically stiffer for obvious reasons.
Beauty is a beast.
I’ve seen one of these on the Online Imperial Club site in the same exterior color scheme with a LeBaron eagle and script on the C-Pillar. Not sure if someone was having fun or if it was a special order, maybe for a big dealer of a Chrysler exec.
What a fantastic car JP! I can totally relate to your reasons for letting it go as family started becoming a priority, going through that myself right now which has led to some changes in the garage. Having a kid certainly does does put a dent in your available free time and spare income!
Yes Sajiv however :
Once they’re about 5 years old they’ll be able to show some interest and be helpful…..
My ex wife wasn’t overly amused by this but so what .
-Nate
That’s something to look forward to, thanks Nate!
Were cell phones a thing at this time? Your comment about knowing how long the seller would be around reminds me that we take them for granted now.
I assume Art didn’t set a reserve price on the car. If his idea of the car’s value was in fact inflated, maybe he would have been disabused in a less painful way.
If I remember, I think Art did have a reserve on the car, but lifted it in the hopes it would juice the bidding, and maybe in a sense of resignation.
What does COAL stand for?
Cars Of A Lifetime. It’s a series on all the cars of a particular contributor’s life.
Always loved Imperial, especially LEBARON. In 68, saw a64 Crown 👑 Coupe at local used car lot shortly before closing on a Friday night. Dealer would give no information telling me to come back on Saturday. Was there when he opened and was told the car had been sold. Another one that got away. However I shared this story with many people.👍. Strangely 😉 that dealer soon was gone!
I just pick one of these up for 600 bucks with 39 k and still had factory bias ply tires on it.gas and battery and drove it home.
He also has a 1964 mercury Monterey same in setup on blocks under 40 k 390 motor as Chrysler