(first posted 8/3/2016) This is not your father’s Oldsmobile, it’s my grandfather’s. And what an Olds it was.
My maternal grandfather was a restless man, he could not be still. All his life he wrote, debated, tinkered, invented, and built, all activities done at full speed and with blazing intellect and passion.
Twin Skin trailer on left, Grandfather and Oldsmobile on right
He worked as an Industrial Engineer at the Stelco steel works in Hamilton Ontario, and in the mid 1960’s he patented a lightweight multilayered metal panel combining a folded middle with two thin outer panels. He called it Twin Skin. To showcase his invention he later built his own travel trailer out of Twin Skin using a boat trailer chassis.
Once fitted out and filled with camping supplies the Twin Skin trailer weighed a bit more than he had anticipated. This was taxing for the boat trailer chassis, which initially had axle problems. Once these were resolved he used the trailer to camp for several years. So while the trailer was a partial success, the 1965 Oldsmobile he bought to tow the trailer was a complete success.
The Starfire was the “Sporty Car” of the Oldsmobile full size lineup, and in this advertisement we can see that the Starfire had brightwork along the lower edge of the body, and a unique vertically split grille. At the rear the Starfire also had a unique bumper and single taillights.
Inside all Starfires had bucket seats, a console mounted shifter, and sporty looking round gauges in the blacked out dash.
Significant to our story, 1965 was also the first year for the big block 425 cubic inch motor. That’s a staggering 7 liters for our metric readers. From the factory this engine came with a forged steel crank, dual exhaust and an 800 CFM Quadrajet carburetor.
It was rated at 370HP and a monstrous 470 Lb-Ft of torque. Running gear was either the excellent Turbo Hydra-Matic transmission or a four speed manual driving a 10 bolt rear with either 3.23 or 3.42 gearing. At 4,100 pounds the car was no lightweight, and questionably sporty but it was ideally suited to the job my grandfather had in mind.
He bought the Olds in 1973 for less than $1,000 and outfitted it with a massive load bearing hitch at the rear, and another hitch receiver at the front for maneuvering the trailer in tight spaces. I know that he was pleased with the Oldsmobile, his handwritten note is below this photo of my young aunts:
I don’t remember the Olds being at his home much, he must have stored it elsewhere because it was not his daily driver and in his words just the “locomotive for pulling the trailer”. In 1979 he retired, and being restless he decided to sell his belongings and move his family to Africa for a year. As we can see from this 1979 photo the Olds was getting a bit rough looking.
During the house cleanout our family went over to help, and there was some errand that needed running so my grandfather took the Starfire and brought me along:
I don’t know if he always drove that way, or if he really twisted it for his twelve year old grandson, but I was very impressed with the way the mighty 425 squished me against the seat when accelerating. I was stunned when he told me the size of the engine, I’d never heard of a motor that big. The Olds was a virtual rocket ship compared to what I was used to, and I felt like we’d orbited the earth when the errand was over and we arrived back at the house.
That memorable day of my first ride was also the last time I saw the car. On his return from Ghana my grandfather purchased a new Taylor Coach trailer and another used Oldsmobile to pull it. It was something like a 1973 Delta 88 with a 455, but I never got a ride in that one.
The Rocket Action Car! That’s what the ad copy says. It definitely was rocket action for me on that day in 1979 when my grandfather took me for my only ride in the Starfire.
Great story. I remember riding in a new ’65 Starfire loaned to my Aunt – it was the smoothest, most quiet car I had ridden in up to that time. Made a real impression I can remember to this day.
Nice one Doug. I’ve got a real soft spot for this shape as the four door was the direct model for our HK/HT/HG Holdens. It may not have the supremacy in shaping that the 65 Poncho and Caddies had, but it is American fullsize sedan/coupe styling at its uninflected best. Love it, and the story of your Grandpa’s little squirt while you were riding shotgun.
Doug, Great article about a very interesting grandfather. The people in our lives can have fascinating stories behind them, but someone who knew them, and was there, needs to tell those stories.
And often, that person’s choice of vehicles spices up their stories.
This CC entry shows that the memories he gave you are a priceless part of your own life.
Actually, he did tell his own story. One of his retirement projects was to write and self publish his 486 page memoirs, including genealogy back to 1530.
As a result I know many stories and facts from his life, including how he got booted out of the Dutch army, how he smuggled milk and hid two Jewish girls during WW2, and that his 1967 Chevelle went 99,230 miles at a cost of 9.2 cents per mile.
Now that I’m an adult I would love to be able to have a coffee with my grandfathers, they have both been gone for about 25 years.
I’m a bit late in coming to this, but there are online videos of your grandfather in an oral history project
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn506573
I know, I’ve seen them. Note how the interviewers struggle to keep him on topic, the raspy voice from a lifetime of pipe smoking and the homemade sound collector behind his ear. All classic grandfather.
I sent the USHMM a couple of copies of the book, my grandparents’ technique for hiding the Jewish girls was unusual, they made them part of the family and hid them in plain sight. The story is also told in this book:
https://books.google.fi/books?id=YCz0J-8HIIMC&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=arie+verduijn+path+of+the+righteous+gentile&source=bl&ots=KRFbV4y-Mu&sig=8YlOfpBNqWXOUV194ymzvQEmRUM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM1cHW0YXbAhXClCwKHcKyBWMQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=verduijn&f=false
A handsome car, although you can see why it wasn’t fancy enough to threaten Thunderbirds or even the B-body Grand Prix. I like the dash design but not the steering wheel, although it’s a pity it doesn’t have actual gauges — there’d be room for some of the left-hand pod surround and light/wiper knobs weren’t so thick. Setting the fuel gauge into the bottom of the speedo would make sense with this layout and a little less frosting would probably leave room for temp, oil, and voltage gauges on the left.
A pity Oldsmobile was still in its “You can read the tach with your knee, right?” phase, although with Turbo Hydra-Matic, there wasn’t much need for a tachometer. GM divisions in this era usually were pretty good about matching shift points to the engine, and the 425 wasn’t the sort of engine that needed to be wrung out anyway.
I think these were not in the same class, that Oldsmobile was for gentlemen like the Doug D’s grandpa: people who needed the performance but did not like any attention.
Nice write up.
My grandmother had a four-door 88 of similar vintage, driven by my meek maiden aunt who lived with her; like many in New Orleans, Mamaw never learned to drive. Somehow I don’t think my aunt ever used more than one-third of the cubic inches under the hood, and every now and then my dad would take the car out to “blow the carbon out of the engine.” It was sold not long after the first energy crisis, and from that point on they relied on public transportation. Other than the probable carbon buildup, whoever bought it got the cleanest 10-year-old Olds in the state of Louisiana, if not the entire Southeast.
Wonderful story. It’s amazing how grandparents can imprint themselves on us and that can often be amplified if there is a car involved.
Your grandfather definitely knew how to choose a locomotive.
I love the description of “locomotive for pulling the trailer.” That’s a great way to describe it!
Thanks for not writing about a Peugeot.
Doug, I so enjoyed reading this – your grandfather sounded like a cool, interesting guy. Great start to my day.
What a memory to have of your sole experience riding in this car. I always thought the “Starfire” name was a great one, but it wasn’t until my teenage years that I learned that it was first attached to a large car (this one) instead of to a small, sporty hatchback based on the Chevrolet Monza. To me, that little car first represented what a Starfire should be, and it was disorienting to learn the name was originally attached to a full-sized car.
By the way, I love the “Starfire” script on the red air-filter cover. I miss little, artistic details on cars like this.
Great piece, and I loved the pictures.
I forgot about the Monza/Starfire. That was an insignificant car but used a fine Olds name.
The Starfire had three lives at Oldsmobile and was attached to three different body styles/ranges. From ’54 to ’56 the long full sized 98 convertibles were Starfires. From ’61 to ’66 the “sporty” Starfire used the short full sized 88 convertible or coupe body. You know the final use of the name. And like the name “Mustang”, “Starfire” was used first on a military aircraft.
For strange reasons, the Starfire was never sold in Canada despite the other offerings of the small H-body “C-B-P” (Chevrolet-Buick-Pontiac) was offered in the Great White North.
Wikipedia’s Starfire entry once mentionned then:” for 1967, the Starfire was replaced by a new Delta 88 Custom Holiday coupe which had interior trimmings similar to the ’66 Starfire and was complemented by a four-door Holiday sedan with the notchback bench seat. Later full-sized Oldsmobile coupes to carry on the Starfire tradition included the 1969-70 Delta 88 Royale and 1978-81 Delta Holiday 88 coupe.”
Could the Delta 88 Custom Holiday was the 1967 Starfire that might have been? I guess the apparition of the Toronado marked the end of the line for the full-size Starfire. Strange then Olds didn’t recycled the Starfire name for their personnal coupe for 1966.
there was a starfire coupe in 66 and 67.
I loved reading about your grandfather even more than about his car. As a kid when these were new, riding in big powerful cars was the norm for me. I can only imagine how cool such a ride would have been once cars like this went out of style. I’ll bet that thing required premium gas, too.
I knew several people with 65 Oldsmobiles, but never a Starfire. This is the best looking of the big B body Oldsmobiles that year. The rear is an especially big improvement over the 88. That is also one of GM’s greatest 1960s dashes. And with that body coupled to those mechanicals, there is hardly a weak link anywhere on this car.
Nice car, great story ! .
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I’m subscribing to get to read the replies and stories .
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When this car was new , I thought Oldsmobiles were for rich folks only….
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-Nate
Rich folks, or at least upper middle-class, which is why I find the ad’s slangy language strange: “Dig the New Olds 425…” I thought Olds buyers were respectable “squares” who didn’t talk like that (and could afford the insurance for a big-block model).
HaHa, I guess it depends on your perspective. In my family, Oldsmobile was “normal”. Some of us would occasionally go Pontiac, but never a Chevy. Buicks were for rich folks. 🙂
You may be on to something here as one of our wealthiest neighbors traded her 1960 Lincoln Continental, bought new, for a new 1965 Starfire. IIRC she was ready for something a bit sportier in the mid-life crisis years and putting the pedal to the metal in that Olds seemed to do the trick. Great piece – never realized just how much power she had at her disposal.
In reality, Oldsmobiles of this era were very popular in small town Indiana where I grew up. The economy was taking off, prosperity was increasing, and folks were moving up from Chevrolet and Pontiac. Two of my high school teachers bought new Oldsmobile sedans in 1965. Very nicely styled cars with a good reputation for quality. Hard to believe the nameplate is gone.
Enjoyed the story and the pics.
Oldsmobiles and Buicks were what I thought to be much the same cars in the 60’s. They seemed to me aimed at the same market. But I was a teenager then. Now I can see that Oldsmobiles were a flashier car, while Buicks were more conservative, with some exceptions, like the Riviera and Wildcat. From the standpoint of cost, I think a basic Olds or Buick was probably about the same price as the Chevrolet Impala.
For 1965 the Impala V8 was around $2800 base, while a base LeSabre was also about that. There are a number of full size Oldsmobiles, with the Jetstar cheapest, but more than the Buick.
IIRC the California Highway Patrol (along with a few other LE agencies) had ’67 Delmont 88’s with this same engine. Not many complaints about the 375 H.P. engine, but brakes were squeamish and the protruding front fenders were quickly dented. After a while the CHP just stopped repairing them.
Loved the Olds 88’s of this era. Big, heavy, powerful and comfortable, and more athletic than the even bigger 98. A true American highway cruiser in every respect.
In 65, the 98 could be had with the 375hp starfire motor as an option with dual exhaust. But probably hevier than the starfire or delta88, and therefore probably nt as nimble and desired as the starfire or deltas for police use
Great story. I try to imagine what kind of cars my grandfathers would have driven if they had lived in the US.
Grandfather Niedermeyer (who collected no less than three doctorates and was a very conservative Catholic intellectual): A black big Buick.
Grandfather Payr: A judge, ans very austere, strict and conservative: A black Dodge.
The Starfire’s unique non-fastback roof line is a somewhat curious alternative to the flowing roofs of the B Bodies. Of course the Grand Prix shared the same idea, but carries it off more convincingly, with more of a luxo-sport look rather than the stark sporty look of the Starfire. Its days were numbered.
I have always liked Oldsmobile engines. In 89-90 me and some friends raced a 68 Cutlass in the Street Stock class at the now defunct Portland Speedway. I built the engine, a 350 Olds, myself with a smattering of big block and marine parts. We never won much money, usually placed in the top 5, and that engine was as reliable as a anvil. Our chassis setup stank; but we were young and having sex with the trophy girls, Oops meant having fun.
Enjoyed the reading the story thinking your grandfather would have been an interesting man to talk with.
An 800 CFM carburetor seems a bit much for a 7 litre engine considering Ford’s Boss 429 went with a smaller 735 CFM carb. Perhaps a little too much carb for the engine? Makes me wonder if a slightly smaller carb might have been a better idea.
Quadrajets cfm doesn’t quite work out the same way a Holley or Carter style carbs because of how the secondaries function.
All quads were rated 750cfm with some rarer ones being 800. The differences (within gm divisions) come in calibration which is far more complicated than other carbs. They are insanely adjustable but with that adjustability comes a huge chance of messing things up.
I think this particular engine used the older style “square bore” which is not as advanced a design as the later more popular “spreadbores” (huge secondaries small primaries)
Among classic Buick people a properly set up quadrajet is considered the gold standard for old school fuel delivery.
Yeah, the Quadrajet came out in ’66, so this Olds probably had the 4GC, the largest of which was apparently just under 700 CFM.
That’s not to say that Doug’s Grandpa didn’t add a spreadbore manifold and Quadrajet later, being the kind of guy who might have done something like that.
It looks a lot like Ted Kennedy’s car, before, well you know…
Love the car! Great story! Too bad no pictures of the entire car turned up, I guess that is a sign of the strictly utilitarian role it held in the family.
Bring back memories of riding in my grandfathers ’65 Bonneville convertible with it’s torquey 389. He had a habit of lifting off the gas pedal, and as the speed would drop giving a quick stab back up to speed, I would almost get sea sick after a few miles of the hood rising and falling, and leaning forwards and back as we chugged along. Must have drove folks following us crazy!
He was an engineer and machinist as well.
He passed shortly after I got my license in 1972, and I enjoyed making sure the top would still go down, along with “blowing out the carbon” on the freeway. He kept it in perfect as new condition.
The car was sold to a used car dealer a few days later.
My folks bought a ’66 Starfire shortly after they got married…Dad still maintains that it was the fastest car he ever owned before the Malaise Era set in!
Friends of my parents, actually the wife, was given a new Red Thunderbird every year from 1956 (I remember as I was 4 when it showed up in our driveway and I was smitten) theough to 63 but instaed of a new 64 “FlairBird”, she shows up in a new red 64 Olds Starfire, with Red bucket seat interior, and that distinct new Oldsmobile smell. I was not old enough to drive, but I loved that car, The fact she was a class act looking (real) Blond was just another cool factor. Another in 65, bright red as were all her previous cars….But in 66, came a deep burgundy Toronado. and that was when the Starfires flames began to wane. Olds wasn’t going to support 2 luxury/sport machines. had too much invested in the FWD barge. I believe 67 was the last model year for the Starfire. And yes, it is a great name.
The 1967 Olds Delta 88 Custom replaced the Starfire.
Great read! This Olds is one of my all time favorites in the looks department, especially the angular “chiseled” look of the front end/rear deck.
A friend of mine had a ’61 with a police interceptor mill..had a punch that matched the througthy sound. These were very admirable cars, IMHO.
Before I bought my Electra I just missed out on a LOADED ’65 Starfire. It had the functional side exiting exhausts, leather bucket seats, AC, power everything tach etc..
The 425 was a different engine than people here think. Its was not quite like the later 400 and 455 motors. It was quicker revving and much more performance rather than low end torque oriented.
Whoever suggested “This isn’t your father’s Oldsmobile” should have been responsible for killing the entire rent-seeking advertising industry.
Well Oldsmobile was all but bankrupt when Durant bought them in 1908.
That dash doesn’t look familiar to me at all. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a picture of it, much less seen one in person.
They shoulda put the tach up high and the clock down by the console. The clock would be dead before long anyway.
The instrument panel in the picture was in all full-size Oldsmobiles for 1965 & 1966, I don’t know about 1967 and later. I doubt that few Olds (other than the Starfire) were sold with a tach so it wasn’t cost effective to create a new panel with the tach next to the speedometer. The vast majority of full-size Oldsmobiles would have been sold with the “optional” THM; I’m sure I have not seen an Olds of this era with a manual transmission in the wild, only in photos. I agree that the Olds instrument cluster is not very attractive, especially compared to those in the other four full-size GM lines. IIRC they all had horizontal speedos that seemed to stretch half-way across the car.
A decade prior to car highlighted here, “Starfire” was applied to the 98 convertibles.
In the late ’50’s a friend of my father’s came over and gave us all a ride in his red 1955 Starfire — exactly like the photo.
A ride I’ll never forget.
a local car restorer gave his son a beautiful dark blue starfire for his high school daily driver my senior year.(1981). it stood out in the student parking lot like Elizabeth Taylor would have standing in line at K-mart. Pure class!
Great-looking car, and one rarely seen anymore. And also some great memories of your grandfather! Brings to mind a similar experience with my grandpa Dan…in the early 90’s my grandmother decided it was time to replace her ’79 Mazda GLC wagon and they came home with a new Protege LX, with the DOHC 1.8 engine. Not exactly a 370 horsepower 425, but for the early 90’s, 140 horsepower in a fairly light car wasn’t bad at all. The first time I went for a ride in that car with Grandpa, he drove that little Mazda like a race car, telling me all the while how much he enjoyed the car. Considering his everyday car was a Plymouth Voyager, and he’d never owned anything remotely sporty in his life (he wasn’t a “car guy” at all), I was a little shocked! But it was fun to see a different side of Grandpa and it’s a good memory to this day.
Big Ole Oldsmobiles are really cool. I have a 1965 Olds Jetstar 1, factory 4-speed car. I recently purchased it from the original owner and am having fun driving it around and getting asked “What is it” Only about 6,500 Jetstar 1’s produced in 1965 and only 233 4-speeds.
This was my Father’s car… (I’m Doug’s uncle) and it was fast. I was in high school at the time and dad always remarked that the fuel economy wasn’t what it should be when I was driving it, which wasn’t too often as I normally got to drive the 67 Chevelle. I would have my friend read the tach while I manually shifted it near the red line. Had a 10:1 compression ratio, if I recall correctly and only used premium fuel.
Fastest car I’ve ever driven.
65 starfire motors had 10.5:1 compression. most of the 425’s were premium only motors. I used to have a 65 dynamic 88 w/425. 2bbl. 10.25:1 compression. factory rated at 310hp. 2-1 exhaust. Not bad performance for a big bodied car from the mid 60’s. needed firmer suspension for cornering during spirited rides.
I was always in awe of Olds engineers for the 65s. While all GMs divisions shared at least some of the changes/upgrades for 1965, I think Olds got the most: new body, chassis, transmission and engine, all in one year. I know the Olds F85 330 was the first of that engine line, but still…..not bad.
Always liked the taillights on the ’65 Starfire. They were better looking that what Olds put on the 88.
My brother owned one with a 425 2bbl.
What an absolute dog it was.
The carb was a Rochester 4GC, not a Quadra-junk.
Last image is of the “Hurst Hairy Olds”, which had two toronado engine & transaxles….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurst_Hairy_Olds
Additional http://speedhunters-wp-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/hairy9.jpg
http://www.speedhunters.com/2010/10/retrospective_gt_gt_the_hurst_hairy_olds/
Reading this again, I am reminded how 1965 was such a watershed year in Oldsmobile styling. Lots of cars got a restyling for that year, but 1965 marked almost a switch from old testament Oldsmobile to new testament Oldsmobile.
Prior Oldsmobiles ranged from nondescript to nice looking, but tended towards kind of anonymous GM styling. The 65 big Olds carried almost nothing from the design language of the older cars. The full hips and open rear wheels in a world of slender haunches and partially skirted wheels and big, bold round speedometers in the era of ribbon designs. Also, Oldsmobile started using a much more open exhaust system than everyone else, and there was never mistaking the sound of an Olds from that point on. There really was a steady progression from the 65 that ran for the rest of the brand’s days.