Note: These pictures are of the actual car
One day after arriving at work, a co-worker met me in the parking lot for the walk to the office. He saw my 1986 Dodge Caravan and told me that he had a 1995 Plymouth Voyager. Over the next several months, we compared notes on the two vans. His primary driving was to work and his annual trip to Sanibel Island Florida for a vacation.
Over time, we had both decided that the minivan was the ideal vehicle. It could haul lots of things with ease and could haul many people in comfort. In my co-worker’s case, he took two bikes and two kayaks to Florida for his annual vacation. He had a roof rack for the kayaks, while the bikes and everything else went inside the van. The two bench seats were almost never in the van, serving as basement couches. I had told him that if he ever wanted to sell the van, to give me first option. After three years of ownership, he approached me one day and asked if I was still interested. I couldn’t say YES fast enough. He’d been looking at new vans and found one that he just had to have. He told me that I could have the van for the trade-in offer that the dealer had made. SOLD! I told him that the trade-in price was much lower than the actual book value. I then offered him more. He said no, if I wanted the van, the trade-in price was what I would pay. I told him that I did want the van, and we completed the transaction two days later.
The van had 70,000 miles in just three years of ownership, which was higher than normal. However, he had properly maintained the van and had all of the records to back it up. In fact, before we completed the transfer, he had the oil, transmission fluid, and coolant all changed. I offered to pay for the work, but he declined saying that he wanted to make sure that the van was in top condition.
The van is an LE model with a 3.3L V6 engine, automatic transmission, A/C, power brakes and windows. It came with a factory AM/FM cassette radio, which I changed with a factory AM/FM/cassette CD radio. Later, I added a HD radio tuner.
After 20 years of ownership, I now have 141,000 miles on the vehicle. One of the things I like about this van is the instrument cluster. All of the gauges are logically laid out and when the van is off, all needles return to zero as shown above. This was something that Bob Lutz insisted on during his time at Chrysler. Continuing the tradition of the original owner, the vehicle had made at least 15 trips to Florida for vacation.
Besides vacation duty, the van has been primarily used as a utility vehicle. Every time something big needed to be moved, the van answered the call. Trash, furniture, appliances, you name it and it has probably been moved by the van. As it was not my daily driver, it has been garage kept since I have owned it and rarely if ever, driven in salty winter weather. That explains why the van has no rust whatsoever.
The tractor shown above will actually fit into the rear cargo area completely with the hatch closed. I made a couple of ramps from 2×6 lumber and since the tractor had a hydrostatic transmission, was able to stand next to the tractor and drive it in. Other large items I have hauled include a washer/dryer pair (hauled upright) and two reclining chairs. On a trip to Florida three years ago, I had taken a number of tools including a table saw to complete some home repairs. During the vacation, my wife decided that she liked three oriental rugs that we saw and proceeded to purchase them. The three rugs occupied 3/4 of the storage space behind the second bench seat, so it was incumbent upon me to rearrange the storage of all the tools I had taken. We only had about a 4 inch gap between the top of the pile and the roof, but it was enough for me to maintain rear visibility on the trip home. Magic!
Maintenance of this van has been relatively painless over the last 20 years. Left front drive shaft (due to a torn boot), two water pumps, front brakes twice, rear brakes once, rear wheel bearings, two headlights, EGR valve, both fog lamps (the lenses fell out), and two rear window motors. That’s it! The headliner is beginning to sag in several areas, so that will be the next big project to complete. I changed one in a Grand Caravan several years ago and it is not fun to take the liner out of the van and reinstall it.
When I replaced the rear wheel bearings this summer, I decided to replace the rear brake shoes. Naturally, you might want to replace the drums as well. The drum (shown above) has the wheel studs pressed into the drum. Replacements available today have the studs pressed into the hub and not the drum. You can’t get the original drums from anyone, even on eBay unless you want to spend $400 each. I had the drums resurfaced and then found another pair of used drums at the pick-a-part yard. Those are now in my stockpile of spares.
One of the weak spots of this van is the air conditioning system. Every three years, you need to add a can of refrigerant to keep the system operating effectively. 1995 was the beginning of the conversion from R-12 to R-134 and the rubber hose configuration was not completely effective in preventing leakage of refrigerant. Other than this, I have not performed any other repairs to the system.
The Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager were marketed in Canada as “Magic Wagons” for many years. After 20 years of ownership, it is easy to see why. They are very comfortable, have great performance, and can haul a lot of things easily. Pure Magic! I wish this van had the fourth door, a power lift gate, and a power sliding door, all of which were not available until the third generation of vans in 1996. The short wheelbase is a detriment from the standpoint of hauling things, but it is also a strong positive from being able to store the van in smaller garages (like my previous house). Overall, this has been the best car I have ever owned.
How hard can it be to make a minivan? Not hard at all when you’re Chrysler and you know what you’re doing!!!
You too have discovered the secret of life: Pickup trucks are overrated. Anything they can do, other than hauling dirt or a large motorcycle, a van can do better.
We owned minivans for about 20 years, and the first was a ’92 Grand Caravan LE. It had a few more issues than yours, including transmission problems and an alternator whose regulator was set too high from the factory (but still within Chrysler specs for acceptable) and would toast batteries. It was, however, an amazing vehicle. Great ride, good highway steering, good power, amazing capacity for hauling stuff, comfy seats, and still-tidy dimensions. While the vans that followed it had even more clever features and more power, none matched that Dodge’s ability to soak up highway miles while carrying 6 people and their stuff. It was a great design, and I love knowing that yours is still on the road and serving you well. They have become quite uncommon around here.
That van is a keeper! And it’s mighty refreshing to read a COAL with a happy ending – a satisfied owner who keeps on truckin’ after 20 years. Transmissions were a known weak spot on these minivans, and it’s great that you’ve seemingly been able to escape trouble free during your ownership.
Although minivans get knocked and stereotyped by some people, there seems to be a lot of love for them at CC. I’m with you that as far as utility and space go, it’s hard to beat them. There’s a simple honesty to this generation as well. I prefer its boxiness to the more bubbly late 90s Chryslers.
I have never owned a minivan however one company that I worked for ordered an ’89 Grand Caravan for carpooling duty to jobsites. It became surplus in that they were short a manager to drive it. Since I was a supervisor at the time I got stuck with it for that purpose. The Caravan was the replacement for the ’87 GMC full size 12 passenger people mover. Was I glad to see that one go. Parallel parking that beast in Toronto was a challenge as were parking garages. Watch the height. It was often parked a long way from some job sites due to it’s size. The Caravan was a refreshing change. Go anywhere, park anywhere, far more economical and a much better package. It was an excellent choice. A few years later the company switched back to GM products and the Caravan was replaced by one of GM’s Astro Vans. Back to the stone age by comparison. I didn’t drive the Astro Van much as they had hired another manager and my days of having a company car were gone.
As a mid 20-something I liked the GMC because it was a brute but I truely loved the Caravan for it’s convenience and boxy style. The Astro Van felt clumsy and aukward. My brother had an Aerostar for a while so I got to drive all the big three’s offerings. The Grand Caravan was by far the superior package overall. At the Time I gave my head a shake and bought a Nissan Hardbody truck for myself. As a 20 something single guy I could not bring myself to own a minivan even though I secretly lusted after the boxy Grand Caravan.
83LeBaron, one of the downfalls of the current Grand Caravan is exactly as you alluded to – it is bigger, so would not fit in my current garage. That was one of the original marketability points for the Magic Wagon – a garagable van.
You have had a great time with your 1995. That generation is the one I missed out on, having had a 1st, 3rd, and 4th gen over 20 years of minivan ownership. Continued enjoyment of your fine vehicle!
In a nod to the CC Effect, I realized that the only time I spent behind the wheel of that gen minivan was also on a trip to Sanibel Island, my first and only time there, and my first of only two or three times driving a minivan, all very brief (other than our Vanagon). It was my in-laws’ van, also a Voyager V6 automatic and quite pleasant.
Regarding the R12 to R134 transition, I’m not sure when it was mandated, but of our two 1993 Toyota’s, the Corolla used R134 and the Land Cruiser R12. I never recharged either before we sold them in ‘04 and ‘07 respectively, but the effectiveness had decreased a bit.
I own a truck, and appreciate the offroad capability and yes, the image, but I often think an AWD minivan would suit our lifestyle best. Perhaps even an Astro …
I think there was a soft changeover in the industry and 1993-94 seemed to be the tipping point. 1994 was the year for most Fords. Our 94 Club Wagon was the first year for R-134. Unfortunately they seem to have made no other changes to the system from earlier models (to adjust for the 10% loss in efficiency compared with R-12) and ours was always a little marginal on hot days in slow city driving.
Another member of the cult of the minivan here. I have owned 3 (not counting 12 years in my club Wagon) in a row going back 10 years and continue to be addicted to its utility. I am booked solid with family moves for the next few weeks.
You don’t mention which transmission you have. A 3.3 with a 3 speed auto would be the sweet spot for the long-term owner, IMHO. I believe that combo is found only in the shorties.
I have very little experience with this generation. We test drove a new one in 1995 (a GC) but it lost out to a loaded 1 year old Club Wagon Chateau. The 96-00 generation seems to have earned the “peak minivan” award but I know that this 2nd Gen has a solid fan base, and for good reason.
Reading about your van is timely. I am currently luxuriating in a loaded-up 2018 Sedona while mine is in for a recall repair. My own van is like a throwback to simple vans like yours while this new one would have been considered decadent even a few years ago (chilled seats and automatic climate control for the rear passengers?). The contrast is glaring.
How do you like the loaner? Last month when I was home in CT my brother and his wife needed a new car, and I found a completely loaded ’17 Sedona for right at $30k, which was remarkable. But they insisted their minivan days were behind them and went with another Santa Fe (which is in itself a really nice ride with the turbo, chilled seats and pano). I even pointed out that the Sedona’s interior was pretty much CUV-ish with the shift and console to no avail…
I am enjoying it! I hope to share my impressions here when my time with it is up.
Given the shot of his dash, it has the 4 speed automatic. Yes, from a durability POV, the 3 speed was golden, but the 4 speed was much nicer in every other respect. We had a 3 speed CV at the station and it offered direct comparison to our own GC with the 4 speed. It shifted much nicer, the OD on the highway made for more relaxed and quiet cruising. The 3 speed was primitive in comparison.
Of course, our ’92 GC went ended up with four of those four speed units in its long. hard life (at Chrysler’s expense, except for a partial payment on the final one).
I’m sorry to hear of your transmission problems Paul. I guess it was common. We bought a new ’94 GC ES With the 3.8 V6 and 4 speed auto. We drove it for 254,000 miles (including ~2,000 miles a year with a popup camper for the 1st 8 years) without a transmission problem. One of the largest problems with the transmissions on these was that many shops would use the wrong fluid. Ours eventually rusted away after about 16 years. As the owner of a new CUV, I miss our minivans, but needed more towing capacity.
Bob
My brother had a short-wheelbase 1995 Plymouth Voyager, bought new. He opted for the 3.0L Mitsubishi V6 rather than the 3.3L Trenton V6 so he could get his with the three-speed Torqueflite transmission rather than the 4-speed. He was fearful of the reliability of the 4-speed, which had debuted as the “Ultradrive” some years prior, and which DID have its teething pains, especially for owners who used Dexron transmission fluid instead of Chrysler 7176 (later, the various ATF+ formulae).
Turns out that over the years he had to get the Torqueflite rebuilt twice; the second time may have been due to a not-so-good job the first time. That first one was at high mileage…over 150,000, so he couldn’t complain.
His luck with transmissions got worse when he bought a new Honda Odyssey minivan. Those were legendary for eating transmissions.
He just recently gave the Voyager, still running, to his in-laws. The second transmission rebuild was holding up.
I owned a Chrysler minivan similar to yours, a 1995 Plymouth Voyager; it was a nice vehicle and quite reliable until it hit 100K, then everything went south-fuel pump, air conditioning, peeling paint; the final straw was the transmission which failed at about 105,000 miles. And all these problems despite good maintance on my part. I had a rebuilt unit installed-it still suffered from transmission issues-to this day I refuse to drive another Chrysler product-their quality is substandard. I’m now on my second Honda Odyssey and the difference in reliability is totally amazing.
We had a 91′ Plymouth Grand Voyager up until 2012 as the the main car in the family, had over 250,000 miles on the original transmission ran like a champ, the AC just wouldn’t hold a charge, so that was it. Most reliable car we ever owned, its still running today as we gave it to a neighnor’s son. Since then we bought a new 2012 Town & Country and a new Pacifica. Plus we still have our old Lebaron 350k+ miles still running(although awaiting a new convertible top) in the garage. ChryslerPlymouthDodge for life! (We’ve been buying them since 1972)
The last COAL in a couple of weeks will be my 83 LeBaron convertible.
The shorter wheel base vans were all assembled at Windsor Ontario. V6 models through Dec.94 were typically still fitted with the g672 Mitsubishi 3.0 engine with the 3.3 Chrysler being optional.
However in January of 95 a tragic most severe earthquake in over a century struck the Kobe region in Japan with over 6400 lives lost. The disaster largely destroyed the Mitsubishi engine plant that supplied the 3.0 engines for Chrysler mini van production.
With the supply chain cut the 3.3v6 became a no charge option on Windsor built vans. That is why most 1995 Windsor built v6 vans like the featured van are 3.3 equipped. It also required the use of the A604 trans.(ultradrive) as there was never a 3 spd.auto built to mate to 3.3/3.8 engines.
It didn’t take Mitsubishi long to rebound. By next fall the new NS body mini van debuted. With plenty of g672 3.0 engines under their hoods.
@ Syke: I am 110% with you on the vast advantages of a minivan v. pickup truck. You can fit Much more cargo in a minivan v. a truck. More fits in a minivan, it’s locked, covered and secured from weather. If it’s cold/hot outside, then groceries aren’t exposed to extreme temperatures. You can fit people and/or cargo, unlike a pickup, and a minivan gets better fuel economy and drives much better than a pickup. You can fit an 8 foot door or a full size box spring and mattress or two twin XL adjustable bed frames and still shut the hatch.
I’m a single 42 year old male and on my second minivan, so I don’t care about the “stigma.” There are definitely worse things to drive than a family vehicle. I had an 06 Caravan bought new which met its end at 10 years and 232000 miles when I pulled in front of an F150. Never any serious trouble with it.
After looking at all the minivans, I bought a Pacifica last year and love it. It’s now at 43000 miles and an incredibly useful and versatile vehicle.
It sounds like this Grand Voyager has treated you very well! They really are amazing vehicles and very durable. Chrysler got the minivan 100% right right out the gate.
Another cool thing about these minivans, Before “Stow and Go” seating you could rearrange seats to suite your needs. Often times in our vans (pre-“Stow and Go”) we would pull out the middle seats and move the 3rd seat to the middle. Worked great! A 5 passenger ride with LOT’S of room!
Bob
My middle seat is rarely in the van. I too moved the third to the middle when I need extra seats, That’s because you can move it back and forth unlike the fixed middle seat. You also can fold it down.
On my ’02 T&C you could remove the 3rd seat. 1 of the 2nd seat captains chairs and have a 3 seater and LOTS of room for stuff! Or fold down the remaining 2nd seat captains chair for more stuff! The biggest problem I had was that it was so easy to exceed the load weight rating before you fill it up.
Bob
What does it look like with the back seats in it?
I did the exact same thing with my ’96 Aerostar. I even found ANOTHER 3rd-row seat from the same ’95 Aerostar that I took the hubcaps off of at Pull-A-Part. This way I could legally seat up to 8 passengers (including driver) instead of just 7! However, the middle seatback DID have to fold forward to get to the back b/c of the extra seat blocking the normal access path (but not ALL THE WAY; I could get back there with it only halfway down!). Ironically, I never got to actually use the seats all that often (let alone all 8) besides with family, nor I did I get to take pictures of all the different seating configurations that were possible. For a little while, anyway, I could claim the title of having the only 8-passenger Aerostar anywhere in my area. YES, there was a ton of room with the back seat removed too (it was the extended-length model).
One of my grandfather’s last vehicles was a ’95 Grand Voyager LE equipped similarly to this one, except his was dark green over silver cladding and had the crosslace alloy wheels. I had the pleasure of driving it from Omaha to Lincoln, NE and back to visit a high school friend that year; apart from parallel parking it on the UNL campus it was a joy to drive.
On the (peripheral) subjects of transmissions and paint quality, my parents are on their third Chrysler minivan, a 2007 T&C (last year of the fourth-gen.) It’s managed to last for 126,000 predominantly city miles with very few issues, and still with its original 41TE (nee Ultradrive) transmission… both better stats than the 1999 and 2002 models owned previously managed.
Surprisingly, its champagne paint has also held up extremely well to the high altitude sunshine of the desert southwest, despite being parked outside exclusively and being waxed only occasionally. I was happy to discover last week that even the roof hadn’t started fading yet.
Out in the rural sticks, I get it, but I’ll never understand the affinity for pickups or SUVs over minivans in urban situations. In one of the other minivan CCs, someone noted that, often times, those who diss the minivan have never actually owned one. Even the people who have bad ownership memories are universally about maintenance (transmission) issues and loved them when they were operating properly.
For a lot of people, a minivan really is the most sensible vehicle to own, really better than a truck or SUV. Sure, it’s just a garageable refrigerator box on wheels but, hey, a box on wheels is pretty damn practical.
My favorite version was the now-discontinued Ram CV. Unlike a typical, noisy cargo van, the CV was a standard Grand Caravan with the seats and seatbelts removed, replaced by a flat load floor. So, it rode and had the insulation of a minivan, but with the usefulness of a cargo van. It also ‘looked’ like a normal minivan, too, and could be optioned up with most of the same user-friendly options of a Grand Caravan.
Unfortunately, when Marchionne took over FCA, he brought the smaller Fiat Doblo with him, making it the rather lackluster Ram Promaster City, and 2015 was the last year of the Ram CV. A real shame since the Grand Caravan soldiers on alongside the new (but more expensive) Pacifica. Yeah, it’s over ten years old now but, hey, when money’s tight, the Grand Caravan is A-OK.
Rockauto still lists new rear drums for this van…..
Yes they do. But not the same ones I have.
I’ve never owned s mini-van, but would consider it. I’ve driven several makes and models at the dealership, and I like the ride height and especially the ingress/egress ergonomics. I’ve always heard about how Chrysler really got the minivan “right”, but my current ‘12 Grand Cherokee has really soured me on Chrysler products. However, even with these high-mileage stories here, I do not see how a minivan could possibly compare in regards to the durability of a full-size pickup or SUV.
We had a 90 Plymouth Voyager as my wife’s daily driver for years. 3.0 with the 3 speed auto transmission. We always had both back seats removed, as our children have grown up and moved on. She went to Home Depot for patio pavers and when she got home told me I need to check the brakes, also the headlights were shining up the trees. Those guys at Home Depot used a forklift and put a 2000 lb pallet of pavers in her mini van. The plymouth hauled it without breaking in half.
“The van had 70,000 miles in just three years of ownership, which was higher than normal. However, he had properly maintained the van and had all of the records to back it up.” The key phrase in that last sentence to look for when buying an older vehicle is “PROPERLY MAINTAINED”. That alone can mean the difference between enjoying a classic ride that is still perfectly functional for everyday transportation for possibly years to come (& to hopefully share with younger generations) and having an eventual (if not immediate) flat-out “clunker” that no one could appreciate. I hear ya on getting the correct replacement parts; that gets tricky on vehicle designs that have been out of production for over 10 years (ask me how I know). I can’t believe that lawnmower actually FIT in that Voyager (never got a chance to try it)! I bet the same thing could also be done with a Transit Connect (the back seats out of course, or just being the cargo van) b/c the floor height & width are about the same the but the roof is taller, even with the current generation (not overly tall like the original). I actually parked my Aerostar next to one that Cromley’s in Saluda had on sale several years ago and they were almost the same height! It could be the Magic Wagon of the 21st Century. Hope your Voyager can last another 20 years!
83 Lebaron, it’s certainly nice not having to deal with new car payments and do the back seats have those integral baby seats?
I’m pretty late to the this post, but I’d like to share my gen 3 minivan experience, too. The birth of twins in April of ’95 showed us that a VW Cabriolet definitely wasn’t up to the task of hauling 4 of us, plus dog and baby equipment. Our 89 Accord could just manage all, but the dog was still an issue.
So, I was able to attend a dealer auction in May and came away with a ’93 Town & Country. T&Cs in those days came with the 3.3 engine (the 3.8 came out in ’94). They were very deluxe vehicles and only listed TWO options; AWD and a CD player for the radio (we had the CD, but no AWD) (I think there was a no-charge option for a middle bench instead of captains chairs, also). We bought the van with about 24k on the odometer. Due to their spotty reliability reputation, I immediately went to the local dealer and bought an extended warranty (up to 100k) from GE – it was surprisingly reasonably priced.
In close to 47 years of driving, that was one of my favorite vehicle (this includes Miatas, Opels, and Hondas!). I regularly had 8 passengers in the car (with a stool between the captains chairs), at least once had 9 for a round trip from Baltimore to NYC and back, used it as a delivery vehicle when I first started a business, and on and on.
At 50k, my wife complained about the way the transmission was shifting. Got a new transmission under warranty. After that, I changed fluid every 50k, only with Chrysler ATF, and no more problems. At 95k I smelled burning antifreeze. Dealer replaced head gaskets just at the end of warranty at N/C! I think I replaced 2 or three fog lights; like 93 LeBaron, the lenses fell out (and I heard myself run over one of them!). By about 2005 I bought OE replacements for the radio and a cup holder off eBay.
Every time I turned on the rear AC I got complaints it was too cold or drafty. So, when the rear AC developed a leak, I had the diverter valve replaced with one from a non-rear-AC van. Still had plenty of cold air and no complaints! Oh yeah, I put Sears gas charged shocks and struts in it (guaranteed for life of the car!) and then returned about every 4 years for a free replacement set, because they were “worn out”.
That van was a beast in the snow – nothing would stop it, including the largest blizzard the Baltimore area ever saw.
After 11 years with 199,000 miles, every option still worked, seat leather was still good, it used no oil, and was a pleasure to drive. I always said the only thing that would get me out of that van was stow and go seating.
About my only complaint was that the white “lace” wheels were real bears to keep clean. Ours was the last year with wood paneling and my then 12 year-olds were complaining that it “looked old”.
In Feb ’06 I stopped at a Chrysler dealer to see what a new T&C looked like in Chrysler’s nostalgic “copperglow” color (a favorite of mine from the 60s). A T&C had too much copperglow!. Anyway, a really good deal got me to give up the ’93 T&C for an ’06 WPC special edition T&C. A minivan with a sunroof, DVD, leather, and stow and go; who could resist?
We still have the ’06 and my wife won’t let me give it up, despite growing rust issues and general old age everything still works on the ’06 too! It is still smooth and quiet (especially compared to my Daily Driver ’01 Miata!)
Good experiences with T&Cs.