In 2005, I was blessed to travel to Majorca, Spain with my father, my now ex-wife and my at the time two children, ages 5 and 3, to visit family friends who had invited us to stay with them at their rural farmhouse. Given that we had luggage and car seats, my dad decided to rent a large vehicle, a Renault Espace, until our hosts said that you quite literally will not be able to navigate the roads and you’ll need to rent something smaller. We rented a 2005 Renault Scenic 1.9 TDI and it was a tremendous car in every way, and I remember lamenting that we could not get such a well designed, and no-nonsense car in America.
The Renault was perfect for the task, which was to carry 5 Americans with luggage and car seats while navigating narrow roads. The design included a sharply sloping hood and large windows for good visibility, wheels pushed toward the corners for maximum passenger comfort, and a multi-function back seat that was adjustable fore and aft to maximize both passenger and cargo space. And because we were in Europe, it had a stick shift and a turbo diesel engine!
Narrow rural roads, lined by walls, and narrow town streets lined by houses in Alaro, Majorca
Well all trips come to an end, and soon we were on our way back to the States, and a few years later, to a divorce. In 2010, I found myself a single dad of three children, ages 10, 8 and 4, and the owner of a 2007 VW Passat. While the Passat had a huge back seat, and I loved to drive it, I had no legal seat for any friend of my kids, and the car seat was making the back seat a touch uncomfortable for my eight year old daughter stuck in the middle seat. So I went looking for a car that would have three rows of seating and fit my needs. My ultimate goal was to keep my payments of $284 a month the same, but quickly found that every three row car on the market was both big and expensive.
Then I mentioned this challenge to a Canadian buddy (most Americans had never heard of a Rondo) and he said what about a Rondo? I said I love ’em, I think they’re attractive, but I need three rows. He said they have three rows! I said in that little package, no way! So I decided to go check it out.
Sure enough, at the Kia dealer, I discovered one of the best designed cars I’d ever seen! Not only did it have three rows, but at 5’10”, I could fit comfortably, if just, into the third row! The second row moved about 8″ inches fore and aft, just like the Renault, and most of all the ride and engine felt like a european car!
Switch the Renault to Round Gauges and You’d Think You’re in the Same Car!
The seating position was upright with a commanding view. The steering was quick and precise. The 2.4 liter 4-cylinder had 174 horsepower and jumped off the line. The gauges were straightforward and the climate control system was the simple adjustable dials I like. The only disappointment was that there was no availability for a stick shift, and further that the 4-cylinder only received a 4-speed auto. The performance of the transmission, however, was exemplary!
So it was time to make a deal. I wanted a base model with the only option being the third row, but they didn’t have one. The closest they had was a denim blue LX base + alloy wheels & heated seats. After $2,000 off of sticker, I paid $18,400 for a brand new, seven passenger vehicle with a great warranty. Even though it was November of 2009 when I bought it, I couldn’t buy a 2010 model but had to take a 2009, as the Rondo had been discontinued in the US due to lackluster sales and 2009 was the final model year.
The Kia was a very reliable car over the years, and pretty fun to drive. We used to joke as a family about its cute and fun to drive nature, and we called it the Rondooooooooo! Even the horn sounded happy. The only major weakness of the car was the gas mileage. I tended to get only 18 mpg or 19 mpg out of the 2.4 liter 4-cylinder.
Over time, our family started to grow. First I was remarried, then we had our fourth child, and the addition of a Thule luggage bag for the roof couldn’t completely compensate for the growth. About 3.5 years into owning the Rondo, we took a trip to Rhode Island, where we rented a minivan and the space in the minivan was just incredible. Upon returning home to the Baltimore airport, all 6 of us piled into the Rondo, and put all our luggage on the roof, and the drive home was the first time I didn’t completely enjoy driving the Rondo. We had all gained weight, and it was a windy day, and with the weight of the luggage on the roof, the Rondo just didn’t fell as safe and solid as it had in the past. I knew then I wouldn’t have it for ever.
Speaking of cars Americans didn’t want…
About a year later, the Rondo needed some brake work, and so I popped over to Carmax to see what the Rondo was worth. Carmax put $8,000 on the car, and I only owed about $4,500. I decided I wasn’t going to do much better than that, and since we were a two (2) tall-wagon, seven-passenger car family, our other car being a 2009 Cadillac SRX, I decided to stop going against the grain, and I traded the Rondo in on a 2014 Camry SE just like everybody else.
The Rondo is one of those cars that people on the Internet yell for: A sensible, practical car at a low price, normally available only in Europe which makes it even more desirable to the Internet set. Which, by reading enough blog replies would convince you that it would sell like crazy.
The catch, of course, is that the Internet set will never buy a new car. Let some other fool take the depreciation, what we’re looking for is the same car in a low mileage, three year old version, preferably with either drivetrain setups that the manufacturer has no intention of selling in the U.S. (usually a turbo diesel with a stick, although that may be changing, thank you Volkswagen) . . . . and only if it has an absolutely perfect repair record that will go better than 100k miles with nothing more than gas, oil changes, tyres, and maybe brake pads.
So a car like this will never sell in America unless some manufacturer can start introducing brand new three-year-old used models with the depreciation already factored in.
At which point, the Internet set will loudly yell that its overpriced. No matter what the price.
For the record, I looked at one (used, of course, my max budget on a car is a bit south of $14k, period) but realized that a Kia Sedona was a much better fit for our needs. You can sleep in a Sedona at the racetracks.
Thank you.
At least someone else out there realizes internet car people are a bunch of bulls**tters who never buy what they claim “everyone wants.”
Especially that POS Renault in the article. We don’t get them in the US because nobody would buy them. I’ve had the opportunity to drive a number of inexpensive european cars not sold in the US, and they’ve pretty much all been miserable pieces of junk.
Amen. I was about to ask, “Who the hell asks for that?!” until I read the rest of your post. Yep, I agree 100%.
Of course, that cuts every which way for internet car nuts. I’d love to get a 2016 production Fleetwood Brougham or Lincoln Town Car festooned with all the Broughammy style of the 70s and 80s though with better material and fit but I know that just is not going to happen. When I hear people on the internet clamoring for it, I think 1) how many of you even have the money for something like that, and no, not 10 years and 100K down the line and 2) how many seriously think GM or FoMoCo is going to fire up the production lines to sell a few thousand such cars?
You just have to be realistic and a new bonafide Brougham or a Eurovan/hatchback thing with a turbo diesel and stick just ain’t going to happen. No way, no how.
I never knew the Rondo had three rows. I’m also surprised about the gas mileage. That was similar to what I was getting with my B body wagons.
I actually go to church with two people that drove these – a no nonsense retired engineer with a hoard of grandchildren (these types probably bought most of the 37 that were sold) and a mom with two kids.
The mom has moved on to a van and Mr McAlister is still driving his. I swear I think his has a V6 badge on the back – it’s probably pretty peppy.
Where do you go from one of these if you don’t want a van or CUV, a Ford C Max?
The Rondo is still available in Canada in a better looking second generation.
The Kia Rondo (Kia Carens in global markets) continues to sell well in Canada, along with the Mazda5. Both make a great deal of sense for dense urban environments, but in more sprawled out environments, dirt cheap Grand Caravans are more popular.
It got updated in 2014 with crisper styling, but I believe shifted to a smaller platform so there is less space inside.
I was amazed how much space the first generation Rondo had – true 7 passenger space, with a habitable back row. An available V6 made them zippy. In black or even bright red, they don’t look as dowdy as some of the more muted colours do.
http://www.kia.ca/rondo
Gen 1 wheelbase was 2570mm, gen2 is 2700, according to Kia New Zealand gen3 is 2750mm. If that’s correct there should still be good room inside.
The Rondo came out right after we bought a Mazsa5 so I never did test drive one. I’m certain the same comments about the vehicle being the right size apply. Our gas mileage was easily mid-20s in the city and it was not hard to get 30 on the highway. Mazda and Kia didn’t promote these vehicles very much. That being said, Matt, I applaud you for making the Rondo work as long as you did. If we had three kids, we’d get an Odyssey or Sienna.
We’ve owned an ’08 Rondo since ca. ’10. Same color as the one on the article. I just snapped a picture of it – ready for a Canadian winter with steel rims and tires. Stock rims are the same as the ones shown in the post pictures.
The Rondo of this vintage came in two trim levels – LX and EX. Both levels offered a 2.4L 4-cyl. with 4-speed automatic or a 2.7L V6 with 5-speed auto. You could choose 3 row, 7 passenger seating or two row, 5 passenger. Two row models offered a cavernous storage area where the 3rd row would fold into on the 7-seater.
When we were vehicle shopping we’d made a decision to buy a Rondo, probably new. We were leaning toward the V6 5 seat configuration because I have a utility trailer and wanted the extra towing capacity horsepower, and with one kid we didn’t need 7 seats. We thought the EX was a nice trim level with heated seats and mirrors. The salesman said gas mileage on the V6 model wasn’t much worse than the 4 cyl. – The 4 cyl. was a bit fuel hungry.
We gave the salesman our wish list and he said he would have to look into a dealer trade because the 5 seat version was not as popular as the 7. We got a call a couple of days later with some sweet news. He’d sold an EX 5 seat V6 around one year previous to a couple who wanted the third row of seats so they were going to trade it in on a a new ’09 7 seater. So we got the vehicle we wanted with low km’s at a slightly used price!
Overall, it’s been a good vehicle. The storage cavern seems bigger than a GM collonade trunk. It hides all of my trailering stuff (drawbar, bungees, tie downs) and the back seat folds completely flat.
I don’t get why vehicles like this don’t make it in the US. It’s very practical and provides all of the benefits mentioned in the story. A new generation Rondo is still available here in Canuckistan, but the V6 is discontinued.
“I don’t get why vehicles like this don’t make it in the US. It’s very practical and provides all of the benefits mentioned in the story.”
That’s why! But if it were all that and had a spiffy exterior it would sell just fine. It looks a bit dowdy. The Kia Soul does very well here. I think it is because of the fresh and spiffy looks.
The Soul sells because they practically give it away. MAYBE for the first six months of the second generation you *couldn’t* get a $99/mo lease deal on one, but that was the only time you couldn’t. Or maybe they just stopped advertising the deal for a while.
“I don’t get why vehicles like this don’t make it in the US. It’s very practical and provides all of the benefits mentioned in the story. A new generation Rondo is still available here in Canuckistan, but the V6 is discontinued. ”
Because the Rondo looks very dowdy and seems to have visually odd proportions(especially in the rear). The Mazda5 looks so much better.
In any event in 2010 Kia offered the redesigned 2nd Gen Sorento which moved from a truck like platform to a unibody one and gave it a car like ride.
You could get the Sorento in 5 or 7 passenger guise and you could get a manual transmission and it also came with 4 cyl and 6 cyl engine options. Plus unlike the Rondo, the 2010-2015 Sorento is a attractive vehicle.
It is also not that much bigger then the Rondo and is easy to drive and park(To me it feels like it drives like an Optima)
A friend of ours had a Rondo as a rental a few years ago and commented about how much pickup it had. I’ve never driven one, but I think such a vehicle makes a lot of sense. My wife and I had a Mazda 5 as a rental for a week a few years ago, and it was a great all-around vehicle for everything, easily swallowing up our camping gear and being fun to drive as well.
The first Scénic was introduced in 1996, back then called the Renault Mégane Scénic (picture below).
It was based on the C-segment Renault Mégane hatchback, and it became a major success for Renault. This was exactly what people wanted, as the Renault Espace and Chrysler Voyager were basically too big and too expensive.
One of its direct competitors these days is the Ford C-Max.
Over here the C-Max is only available as a 5-seater and on top of that only in Hybrid and Plug-in Hybrid forms. I was dying to check one out and see how they hold up long term and got my chance in Chicago recently where they are used as taxis. I drove my wife nuts as we left the Field Museum and wanted to take a cab back to Union Station, there was one in the taxi line, but it was fifth in line. I made us wait about fifteen minutes until four other parties took the first four cabs and then we made a dash for the C-Max. It had about 120k miles on it and seemed to be holding together well. Plenty of room in the back seat and an attractive layout. Over here the C-Max is generally regarded as competition for the Prius V (wagon) but considered to be the one to go for if any driving enjoyment is desired.
I don’t see the Prius wagon much around here. Toyota also offers the Auris (Scion iM) wagon and the Verso, their compact MPV.
A few other competitors in this segment: Peugeot 3008, Citroën C4 Picasso, Volkswagen Touran and the Mercedes B-Class. And then of course all Fiat 500 spin-offs.
Would the Opel Zafira and VW Golf Plus compete as well? We rented a Zafira in the UK a few years ago, the third row was handy but tiny. The Golf Plus is kind of a high-roof Golf, right, but still only 5 seats?
In this class the VW Touran seems to be more of a competitor and very popular as a cop car in many EU countries (Belgium, Austria, Germany Netherlands). The GolfPlus fits into a somewhat hard to define category, being more upright than a Golf but not as versatile as the other compact SUVs. An answer to a question nobody ever posed.
Ford at one point was planning to sell the gasoline-engine Grand C-Max (the stretched version with sliding doors and 3 rows of seats) in the US (calling it simply C-Max), but backed out at the last minute and decided to sell only the hybrids with 2 rows and hinged doors. Pity. Would have seriously considered buying one.
I test drove a Rondo 2 years ago and took a pass on it. After reading Matt’s excellent article I am glad I did not take it. I bought a Pontiac Vibe instead.
Nr. 1: this has nothing to do with the car, but the dealer experience was a total turn off. It was a near new car at a very large Chevrolet dealer in Ankeny, IA. They did not even allow me to take it on a bumpy road.
Nr. 2: they wouldn’t budge on the price, they low balled me on the trade in and they tried to pressure me.
Nr. 3: I had spent 18 years in minivans and the Rondo felt like another minivan to me.
Nr. 4: I am really glad now, because it would have guzzled more gas than the minivan I would have traded in.
This dealer just made me mad. Tuesday after that weekend a Pontiac Vibe showed up on CL and an hour later it was mine.
While agree with a few of the assessments for why the Rondo is not still for sale in the U.S. I think a lot has to do with the fact that there are better choices available…and a couple are already in Kia showrooms.
Another “problem” is that they were not all that publicized when they were available. Mazda made the same mistake and now the Mazda5 is gone.
But the icing on the cake, at least in my area, is REALLY crummy dealers.
Seconded on Kia dealers. They are half a step above Buy Here, Pay Here lots.
I had a brief interest in a base Soul which has an MSRP of about $15.5k, The dealer’s ADM sticker full of crap brought it to $19.5k.
I refused his offer to begin negotiations at 20% *above* MSRP.
Come to Richmond. The big reason that two out of our three cars are Kias is Pearson Kia. The last time I had dealer service like this, I was driving BMW’s.
You expect someone to travel an undetermined distance just to buy a Kia?
Not all Kia dealers are crummy. When I had my 2010 Forte, I took it to Laurel Kia (in Laurel Maryland) for services and a couple of warranty issues and they bent over backwards to help me out all the time.
A few of these Rondos are toodling around Portland, OR and some have been picked up by vagabonds, but I hardly ever see them being used as a family vehicle.
loved the rondo. i had no idea that it was available with three rows of seats. what i don’t get is that you traded it because it was too small and proceeded to buy a sedan. i thought you were going into mini-van country.
Good point!! Traded it on a Camry, as our Caddy SRX (gen 1 three row version) could serve as the family car. Then we traded the SRX on a Toyota Sienna minivan;-)
My Dad bought a new Rondo in 2009, same red as in the photos as well.
Being Canadian he appreciated it as a good tool for the job, they wanted to downsize from the Grand Caravan they had before it.
They just bought a new car this year (2015 Escape) and my Niece drives the Rondo to college. They never had trouble with it, it remains a good reliable vehicle. Dad’s only complaint was that every time he visited the Kia dealership they had a new service manager, couldn’t build a relationship when it was a different person each time.
As I discussed with Mr. Edward Mann at the ACD museum last year, Canada has a slightly different culture than the US when it comes to cars. Vehicles are weighted less as a status symbol and an ostentatious car is more likely to get you laughed at than admired.
I got some wheel time in a Rondo in 2009 when my 05 Ford Escape got rear ended. I rather liked it. It was a white LX with V6 and no third row . Very roomy. Mileage was low to mid 20’s. Plenty of pep. It left a very positive impression on me. So much so that I traded said Escape last week for a white 2013 Kia Sportage LX. Excellent vehicle. Very roomy back seat for our teens. Fuel economy has topped 30 MPG. We couldn’t be more pleased.
I’m on my second Mazda 5 – first was an 07 with manual transmission, and I’m now going on 6 years with an 08 automatic. I’ve stuck with them for the combination of great versatility in a tidy, and reasonably fun-to-drive package. Sure, you can get a Grand Caravan for the same (or less) money, but with Chrysler quality. Toyota or Honda vans, equivalent or better in quality, will cost far more.
I once read (regarding the Mazda 5) that the reason for the lack of marketing was that their global production capacity of the vehicles was maxed out. No reason to spend more money generating sales demand when you can already sell every one you can make. Don’t know if that’s still true, but it might also explain why they are still sold in Canada (at very low discounts, by my experience), and not in the US. It’s likely that they can simply make more on sales in other markets.
The biggest enemies of the Mazda5 and Rondo in the marketplace were the Caravan and the cute-utes like the Tribute/Escape/CRV.
The Caravan can be had new for what the Rondo costs, gets the same mileage, and is considerably larger inside while only being slightly larger on the outside. The kind of person who wants a practical pig sort of car wants the largest possible vehicle inside at the lowest possible (short and long term) price. Why squnch into a Rondo when you can stretch out in a Caravan, or fit that extra long wardrobe, or that extra bag of potting soil . . . etc . .
People who are concerned about image, although I cannot for the life of me understand why a cute-ute has a better image than a Caravan, are going to turn up their noses at it as what it is, a dwarf minivan, and pick a cute ute.
I frankly do not at all understand the internet fandom for these things. Why WOULD you want a smaller car for the same price? There are a few people in urban environments, I suppose, but AMERICA Y’ALL.
Because internet car people are hipsters. They want what they can’t have simply because they can’t have it. All of them who claim those small, cheap European cars with tiny engines and stick shifts are “awesome” would get sick of them after one day.
Amen, preach it.
The wife got a 2012 Escape, and yes, part of its appeal was that it looks like a mini version of my old 2002 Eddie Bauer Explorer, same basic color and everything.
I’d be ok with a new loaded Town and Country, but I like the Escape. She wanted nothing to do with a van and certainly wouldn’t have even considered these dumpy little dwarf vans.
My neighbor, Ray, and his wife have a silver one. It’s about the only one I see around here. I even rode in it once, when I locked myself out of the house AND the garage. They gave me a ride to my folks’ so I could get their spare key. So I always think kindly of these. 🙂