It’s tough on my ego to admit it, but over 48 years of driving, I’ve bought a few stinkers – cars with some REALLY bad reputations; a 1981 Buick Skylark (X-car), a 1981 Olds Cutlass diesel, and a 1986 Ford Escort GT. For me, the 80’s were definitely the deadly decade. I bought each of these three new – and two very quickly lived up to their well-deserved reputations as rolling pieces of %&*#. But one, surprisingly, never gave me a bit of trouble.
Early 80’s Cutlass very similar to mine – without the halo vinyl roof
I won’t bore you with all the tales of woe the Skylark and the Escort gave me – suffice it to say that one almost burned to the ground from a loose carb leaking gas over the exhaust manifold and the other lost its brakes (thankfully while stationary) from a bad master cylinder – both in the first year of ownership. Those two cars were undoubtedly trying to kill me. But the one with probably the worst reputation – the Olds diesel – never gave me a problem or left me stranded in the two years I owned it.
At this point you’re probably asking; “An X-car, an Olds diesel, and an Escort – what were you thinking?” Well, back in the Jurassic Age before the Internet, if you wanted to do some research on a prospective new car, you had a couple of different options; 1) you could read the reviews in the major enthusiast magazines of the day (Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc.), 2) you could stop by the library and see if they had any JD Power satisfaction surveys, and 3) you could ask someone who owned one. I always tried to do at least two of the three. All three cars had very favorable reviews in one or more of the major car magazines. Motor Trend even picked the Citation (Chevy’s X-car version) as the 1980 Car of the Year. Now forty years later, they’ve yet to live it down…
Within two months of owning the Buick Skylark, I realized it was an absolute disaster, so I started looking for something new. I didn’t care for the downsized 1978-80 model Cutlasses – I thought they looked shrunken and stunted – but the re-style in 1981 was a real improvement – hitting that fine line that made the previous A-Body Colonnade Cutlass a million seller.
So, now you’re asking; “But why the 350 diesel?” Yes, I knew they had problems, but I read a Car and Driver article that spotlighted the updates GM had made; strengthened head bolts, a fuel-water separator, a roller cam, and revised bearings, etc. At that time, diesel fuel was also still 10-20 cents cheaper than gas (though it would go up right after that). Lastly, the dealer was ready to deal, and even after the significant markdown, GM had a separate $750 rebate. So I rolled the dice and bought it.
And remarkably, all turned out well. I took several trips from upstate NY to central Ohio and back and the Cutlass never missed a beat – typically averaging over 30 MPG on the highway. In town it averaged around 22. It wasn’t fast by any means, it had only 105 hp and 205 ft lbs of torque, but the torque came in low and would give a nice push up to 35-40 mph. After that, you had to pray for a tailwind.
Yes, it was slow. But it rode well, got good mileage, looked nice, and unlike the Skylark, always started and ran. So overall, it wasn’t a bad car. I was lucky in having the Gen 2 version of the LF9 engine, which fixed most of the previous deficiencies. If only GM would have addressed all those shortfalls before it was introduced three years earlier, we’d likely have a different legacy today regarding diesels in the US. But that was the typical GM playbook of the 70s and 80s – push it out, even if it was half-baked. And as we’ve seen, it’s a lesson that US manufacturers never seem to learn, i.e., 2011-16 Ford Powershift transmission.
I went overseas in mid-1981 and put the Cutlass in storage – came back for visits a few times, pulled it out and it ran fine. I then sold it to my sister who at that time had two teenage boys – who quickly nicknamed it “The Gutless.” But can you think of a better car for a teenager? It’s not like they’re going to engage in any dangerous stoplight Grand Prix’s – unless a diesel Chevette pulls up in the next lane.
If you’re curious, yes, I still have nightmares of burning up in that Buick. And in a future COAL, I’ll tell you about the Escort and the pieces of paper napkin found clogging the A/C system – but before I attempt that, I need to renew my depression medication.
So, did you ever own a model with a terrible reputation that turned out well?
Related posts:
Curbside Classic: 1978 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Diesel – In Defense of the Olds 350 Diesel V8
Had 3 Citroën CX’s.
The first two completely confirmed the car’s bad reputation: they were irritatingly unreliable (many technical/electrical issues without a clear cause) and rusted audibly. The last one however, a 25 GTi, was one of the best cars I’ve owned, with none of the gremlins that plagued the first two cars.
I can still hear those Olds diesels rattling away in my head and seeing soot-covered rear ends is still fresh in my mind almost 40 years later. By the time I was of driving age in the late 1980s, these could be bought for pennies on the dollar and I had a chance at a mint loaded burgundy 50K mile Cutlass diesel for $500 in 1988 that I wanted to swap a 350 gas engine into but the parents said no way.
Anyway, I had a ’79 Volare 318 wagon that was a great car, but I think they had all the bugs worked out by then. I also have a Durango with a 4.7, which has a reputation for being a hit or miss engine, but it’s made it to 200K with zero problems.
For those that never heard one, the Olds diesel sounded like each cylinder had musical ball bearings bouncing on top of each piston. The musical reference is kind of like 8 muffled gongs sounding rapid fire.
I had a ’81 (used) 4dr Gutlass Diesel….it lived right up (down?) to the horrid rep. Despite the whole engine being replaced under warranty, the problems came back. Never enough to again “kill” the car, but irritating to put it mildly. I finally had enough and then some: bought my first Honda car, a base ’88 Civic HB. Never looked back.
Hondas have been my go to car ever since. DFO
For me, that car would be my ‘73 Vega GT. Yes, it had its share of issues, but those were mostly easy to fix with a few hand tools or even a pocketknife. And it was far more reliable than the “nice” car I bought to replace it as my daily driver to supplement my Showroom Stock Ford Fiesta, which was a ‘77 VW Scirocco. Both the Vega and VW were about 3 years old, 60K miles when I bought them and the VW was far less reliable and more complicated to fix than than the Chevy. I still look back on the Vega with affection which isn’t just nostalgia; it took me on some great journeys and was fun to drive.
Two in our family:
My 1973 Vega GT. Despite the fact that I drove it like an idiot in the first year, wrecked it once, and then campaigned three seasons of SCCA B-sedan autocross with it, plus a few sprints, at trade in time in 1976 it was only starting to show the first wisps of smoke out the tailpipe. I have nothing but fond memories of that car.
It was followed by a ‘76 Monday 2+2, and dad then bought a ‘77 Vega hatchback. Both of them were quite fine, too. Unfortunately, I took one too many chances, as my ‘79 Monza Kammback was the worst POS I ever had, by a large margin, in 52 year of automobile ownership.
Eight years later, dad bought a Buick LeSabre station wagon with the diesel. Like you, he had no problems whatsoever with the car, although I did notice he only kept it two years, a rather short amount of time for him. Guess he was hearing the stories and decided not to push his luck.
Syke, I wonder if our fond memories of our Vega GT’s relate to our both being motorcyclists? There was something harsh but precise about the Vega, like a twin or even a thumper. The clunky shifting and poor ride on bumpy roads of my older Ducati are quite similar to the similar traits of my Vega. And hey, if we can ride 500 miles with 70 mph winds attacking our bodies, and oiling chains every few days, what’s a little vibration from a 2300cc four or a bit of oil consumption. My Vega GT was every bit as enjoyable and in hindsight a better vehicle, than the now much-admired Honda CB400F that I owned at the same time. A bike that had its own set of issues which are swept under the rug by modern paeans to the 400 Four.
Might be something there, but the Vega was gone by the time I got my first motorcycle in June of ’76. I’d had the Monza 2+2 for a couple of months at that point.
That Vega was hellish fun in low-end amateur motorsport competition. B-sedan meant running against BMW 2002’s and 1600’s, and 2 liter Alfas, plus the home grown competition of the 2 liter Pinto. No, you never beat a BMW (and if you managed, suffice to say the SCCA would have changed the rules very quickly to ensure that never happened again).
From my experiences, while I can fully agree with the Deadly Sin aspect of the Vega, I’m not one to tolerate too much badmouthing of the car.
The problem with the Olds Diesel as was also used in other GM products is that they took a gasoline engine and made it into a Diesel. It did not have the metallurgy to survive the higher pressures and heat of a Diesel. Between that and the Caddy 6-8-4 or 8-6-4 or whatever they called it, it was another bit of foolishness. Today’s electronics would make the 6-8-4 concept work, however. I have referenced a fine Diesel that GM had at another time: the 6.2 Liter that was used in GMC and Chevy light duty trucks. I remember that the GMC Suburban equipped with the 6.2 Diesel would achieve 30 MPH when the vehicle was in highway operation and in two-wheel drive. That was pushing 5,500 pound s of iron, too!
Hello Thomas. Just FYI, Hemmings had a good historical article on the LF9 a few years back.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/1978-85-olds-lf9-diesel-v-8/
I agree with you on the 6.2 – drove quite a few of those in Military M-1008/9s, and those were strong, tough engines. Jim.
Semantics come into play, but I strongly come down on the side that says this was a converted gas engine. The started with a gas engine, and converted it, which obviously involves a number of changes including strengthening the block in a few key points. But the block was still interchangeable with gas engine heads, and became a popular base for hi-po Olds 350 gas engines.
And of course the heads were different and many of the ancillary components were of course different. But fundamentally, this is a classic converted gas engine, and not an engine designed with a clean sheet of paper as a new diesel engine, like the 6.2 was.
And in that process, they made some shortcuts/mistakes, like the head bolts. It should have had more head bolts to start with, but the 350 block didn’t allow that readily.
Having said that, the fact that it was a converted gas engine didn’t have to mean it was a lemon, at least to start with. VW converted their gas EA127 engines into diesels, and they became legendarily durable. The key thing is how well it’s done, not what one uses as a starting point.
“Semantics come into play, but I strongly come down on the side that says this was a converted gas engine.”
i agree 100%. Obviously no gasoline engine would survive without some major revisions if one is to convert it to diesel. People that argue that 350 Diesel is not a conversion cite the unique engine block, larger crank bearings, unique pistons, etc. But these things all have to be revised to convert the engine to diesel. By this logic, we could argue that a Chevrolet 400 SBC is not based on the original 265 V8. After all, the 400 uses a unique block with siamesed cylinders and clearanced for the 3.75″ crank, and significantly larger main bearings.
The bottom line is the 350 Oldsmobile diesel is the same engine design as the 1964 and newer Olds V8 engine. Parts interchange for a reason, because its the same design. For the much higher cylinder pressures, the block had to be resigned, which included much stronger main saddles, the 3.0″ mains (same as tall deck “Big Block” Olds V8), and the cylinder wall thickness had to be increased significantly.
Ultimately the 350 Olds had potential to be an okay engine, had GM not cut costs. I think the 4 bolts per cylinder would have sufficed had GM used the highest quality fasteners and head gaskets. The TTY bolts were a poor choice, especially since technicians weren’t familiar. That said, with the new block casting they could have increase the numbers of cylinder head bolts, but it would have been more costly. The camshafts and cranks both failed. GM should have used a roller cam and stronger and longer main bolts up front, plus a forged crank would have been a worthwhile improvement. The injector pump drive being run by an inadequate timing chain didn’t help either. The lack of a water separator and improper maintenance were just the icing on the cake for this engine.
Had the 1981 versions with most of these problems resolved been released in 1977, maybe things would have been difference. Nevertheless, some of these original diesel did last if properly cared for, but most owners did not. See this CC posts:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1978-oldsmobile-delta-88-diesel-in-defense-of-the-olds-350-diesel-v8/
A lot of these diesels ended up as gas conversions after the engines failed. One friend of mine actually had a 1980 Chevy truck with a 350 Olds gasser because the original diesel failed. He loved bragging that his truck had a “Rocket V8.” Another friend’s uncle converted one to a 455 when the diesel failed.
As for the 6.2L diesel, it was an improvement as it was a clean slate design, but hardly a great engine either. When I worked at GM, we saw lots of problems with 6.2Ls, included a number of complete failures. Nevertheless, the larger 6.5L versions were worse, in particular the electronic turbo versions, (I recall one truck being on it’s third engine during the warranty period).
My Subaru can easily go well over 30 MPH.
How much over 30 mph will it go?
We had a 1981 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham in the family with the 8-6-4 engine in it. It was not quite the horror story as many people make out. Fuel economy was much improved on long flat highway runs.
You don’t know much about the Olds engine. Oldsmobile only used some of the tooling and manufacturing fixtures to produce the diesel, and used only a few items from the gasoline engine like the oil fill tube, water pump, and minor parts. The blocks were entirely diesel only. I regularly drive several of these diesels, some with 180,000 to 240,000 miles, some are pre the DX improved engine and some are the DX engine. They far outlast the gasoline engine. After owning these, I haven’t had any interest in the gasoline versions. In my experience most of the “failures” were due to water in the fuel. Contrary to the above story, they all had a water separator from the start, a fuel tank reservoir system.
There are always those factory freaks. My buddy is a VW technician and he told me about a 2000 Jetta he services with the original tiptronic automatic transmission. The car has over 200k on it. Those trans are usually toast before 100k.
Another friend of mine is fighting with Honda right now because the 2019 Accord he purchased brand new has been nothing but problems.
I don’t know if it counts but my mom drove a 1984 Ford Escort 4-speed for years, 1988-1994 or so and it was a really good car.
I had the same Jetta, and likewise zero problems, at least until I sold it at 118K.
Well, I had a ’81 Buick Skylark as a company car for a couple of years and it had no issues at all that I can remember. I didn’t pay to have it serviced, but I just can’t remember anything unusual at all. And we had a fleet of four of them, and that applies to all them, as best as I can remember.
They didn’t seem to suffer from the premature rear wheel lock-up much either, but then they were optioned to the hilt including wider wheels and tires and every HD component possible, which might have made a difference. I do remember driving an early Citation who’s rear wheels locked way too easily.
I’m glad you had good luck with yours. In addition to the leaking carb, the 4 spd manual transmission would suddenly and loudly fall out of gear – took it back to the dealer twice and they realigned the linkage but that didn’t help. They finally replaced the transmission. Then it started leaking in the trunk – misaligned weatherstripping. Then the clutch starting ratcheting – they replaced the pedal.
The rear brakes locked up early on mine too – which caused many white knuckle moments in upstate NY winters.
I can still remember the service manager’s name – Sherman – we were on a first name basis. 🙂
These were automatics. I know that the 4 speed’s linkage and clutch were known weak spots. And this was in So Cal, so twitchy rear brakes wouldn’t have been nearly as much of an issue anyway.
IIRC these were the ones specced by a fleet manager who really knew his way around a GM options list?
Actually an engineer at the tv station. He was able to get us qualified as a fleet buyer, and he was just a bit of a fanatic.
The closest I come was the 1959 Plymouth Fury sedan I bought in the fall of 1979 that had all of 60k on the odo at the time. Chrysler had done a lot of work on these in the two years that followed the 57 model with the really bad reputation.
Mine did suffer from a minor water leak around the cowl and some other minor things, but it was a fabulous driver that started and ran every day in all weather. In retrospect it was one of my favorite cars to drive of all I have had – there was just something about the ergonomics that fit me perfectly. Oddly, the one thing that forced college-kid me to sell it was what should have been the best part of the whole car – the Torqueflite transmission – that was chewing itself up inside.
I will admit that the 66 Fury that I later owned as a 20-year-old daily driver was a better car overall.
I also had an 86 Fox body Marquis station wagon. The 3.8 V6 has a bad reputation for head gaskets, but mine never gave me any trouble at all in the couple of years I had it, and that was after not buying it until it was over 100K miles.
I don’t think the ’58s or ’59s were of lower quality than other American cars. The 1957s were so far advanced relative to Ford or GM offerings that demand far outstripped Chrysler’s ability to deliver cars. There was also the factor of corruption between suppliers and their head of parts procurement, leading to low quality materials. By 1958, demand was cratering and the corporation was in damage control mode. That’s why there are so many more ’58 and ’59 survivors even though they were made in smaller numbers.
The 57 was developed on an accelerated schedule that cut about a year out of the normal development time. It was severely underdeveloped when it was introduced. The 58s were substantially better cars because there was a lot of engineering work being devoted to fixing the worst of the 57s problems. The 59s were improved even more. But many of those weaknesses were engineered-in, such as the difficulties in keeping leaks and rust at bay. There were *a lot* more problems in those cars besides too-fast assembly.
I had an ‘08 Nissan Altima with a CVT, and never had a single issue with it while driving it over 85,000 miles. I recall that the only thing I ever replaced on it was the rear pads; thought it was odd that the fronts never needed changing, and still had lots of meat on them when I traded it. Still looked and drove like a new car, too.
I worked in a repair garage in the era of GM Diesels and we had a customer who was “on the road” constantly as a troubleshooter for a particular type of large manufacturing equipment. He had a similar Cutlass with the small-displacement Diesel (260 cubic inches, perhaps) with a standard transmission! Had I not seen this car and worked on it occasionally, I would not have believed that such a combination would have been marketed. The standard transmission eliminated the problems GM was having with automatic transmissions in those days, and for whatever reason the engine was incredibly reliable. With the exception of injection pump repairs/rebuilds, I don’t recall any particular maintenance beyond oil changes and routine servicing. This gentleman put on astronomical amounts of miles, since he drove all over the U.S. east of the Rockies, and his fuel economy was spectacular (over 30 mpg overall, if I recall) and he was a big man with a heavily loaded car. GM would have had a winner with these if they had played their cards right, but, alas, ’twas not to be.
Your ego should take comfort that the Skylark purchase probably counts as an “early adopter” purchase, rather than a walk into gale headwinds. Perhaps the Escort too.
A family member that spent years in the military in Europe came back and settled in Phoenix, a city with plentiful rust free senior owned vehicles. As a lark, he bought an ’80 Cadillac Sedan deVille diesel in 1992. Hey! A cheap luxo-cruiser in mint condition! What could go wrong?
He had missed the memo while overseas. The car lived up to its reputation, and was out of his life in months.
I bought new the first year 2005 Ford Freestyle with the CVT transmission that quickly gained a poor reputation, and Ford abandoned this CVT after three years and few sales, leaving owners with a rare, expensive to repair or replace orphan. I ended up one of the lucky ones, it made it 15 years and 140,000 miles. I still have it, and the transmission is now acting up in cold weather. I have a few engine codes popping that impact the transmission and may be correctable for a few hundred bucks – DIY. If that doesn’t do it, we are probably soon done with it.
Not mine, but identical….
I have only owned one car that had a dismal reputation, a 1980 Chevrolet Chevette and I can say, with authority, that the miserable little turd fully lived up to its ignominious reputation.
In 1984 dad went out and bought a new 84 Pontiac Phoenix coupe. We tired to talk him out of it telling him they are junk. He bought it and had the last laugh. He had no issues with the car other then getting hit in parking lots. Even with that he had it 11 years. To this day I don’t read reviews if I like it I by it.
My wife bought a brand new 1980 Pontiac Phoenix 5-door high series with the highly fuel efficient 2.5L I4 and 4-speed manual. The build quality was abysmal. The hatch leaked rain water into the spare tire well. The car was delivered without the rubber isolator on the tailpipe hanger, so it rattled every time there was an imperfection in the road. The floor carpet was cut too short and couldn’t tuck under the floor console, leaving us to stare at the underlying insulation and floor sheet metal. The cotter pin in the transmission cable linkage was either never installed or fell out, leaving the car to only operate in 3rd and 4th gears. The shift knob fell off due to an unseated C clip. And the infamous rear brakes locked up on a stretch of icy highway giving us the excitement of an unintended 540-degree spin out while a semi occupied the next lane. The last malady was an underhood fire. The Phoenix was replaced with a new 1982 Ford Escort EXP. Althought the EXP was not a very fast vehicle, it had zero quality issues.
It can’t be a coincidence that a lot of these cars with bad reputations are Buicks. That must mean something, I’m just not sure what.
About 23 years ago I bought a 81 Cadillac V8-6-4 as a cheap parts car from a friend’s neighbor, the original owner. He never had a moments trouble from the car, and the engine worked flawlessly, including the engine controls. It worked well for me, too. In retrospect I should have fixed it, (instead of parting it) as all it needed was basic maintenance for normal wear-items: tires, brakes and a front end rebuilt
Disconnect a wire or shut it off electronically from the dashboard, and the V8-6-4 becomes just a standard Cadillac big-block V8 running full time on eight cylinders which was plenty reliable, if heavy, albeit debored to a mere 368 cubic inches (6.0L). But the one V8-6-4 owner I knew (in an Eldorado) had the latest firmware updates and kept his connected, and it worked reliably.
Not “terrible” but mediocre…my father had a 1983 Buick Skyhawk (1.8/automatic) that lasted 264,000 miles and 13 years, 11 of those in New England.
I had a 2007 Audi A3 that was a great car, it was expensive to maintain but I still liked the car. On the other hand it replaced a 1999 Silverado that while nice to drive required several expensive repairs.
About five years ago, I purchased a 1985 Renault Encore for $900. And it wound up being a surprisingly good little beater. It had a few small issues, but most of them seemed to be due to neglect and old age rather than any inherited flaws and was no worse than any of the other clapped out old cars I’ve owned. It always started even on the coldest winter days (something that my ’05 Dodge Neon that was my DD couldn’t be counted on doing) and it never left me stranded. And it’s not like I only used it to bop around town in either. I once drove from my home in western Minnesota to Chicago (about a 1400 mile round trip) and it performed flawlessly.
In the two years I owned the little thing, it only needed a few bigger repairs. I wound up swapping out the radiator early on (it only needed a new fan, but the parts car I also picked up was an automatic, which had a different location for the upper hose, which interfered with with the fan shroud), a fuel tank vent hose (the old one had a crack and would leak when filled), and a new CV joint. Really, the only flaws I could say were inherited by design were the notoriously fragile window regulators (I wound up gluing the plastics back together a couple of times) and an incurable high idle symptom. I only got rid of it because I was running out of space and I rather miss it.
My parents ordered a 1982 Pontiac Phoenix, at my suggestion choosing it over a 6000 because I liked the hatchback configuration, fold-down rear seat, and the cool airplane-like instrument panel with all those little round gauges and matching vents. We knew about their poor rep by that time, but I assured my folks that the changes made in the ’82 models, including the redesigned and relocated steering rack from the new A bodies and the new fuel injection would fix things. We had noted during test drives that some cars seemed quieter than others, and I thought it was because the 6000s we drove were optioned with the extra acoustical insulation. Actually it was that V6-equipped cars were quieter than those with the Iron Duke four, but unfortunately I didn’t realize that until well after we took delivery. Our Phoenix was a base model, but loaded with options including the fancier interior from the LJ model, power everything, full gauges, bucket seats, and dozens of other options. It would have been a very nice car had we spent a mere $125 for the optional V6. Still, it was reliable, and despite the criticism of the throttle-body fuel injection for being inferior to more advanced types, it was stil leaps and bounds better than a carburetor; it started easily, ran nicely, and never stalled. Overall the car was as well built as a typical American car of the day.
We also had a 1976 Chevette, this one a leftover after the ’77s had arrived and sold for a cheap $3,500. This car’s bad rep was more due to being behind the times and a poor performer than for unreliability, and our car lived up to its rep. It had average reliability, but seemed antiquated next to a VW Rabbit with a tiny back seat and very little luggage space (all of it exposed – a cover wasn’t available) due to the gas tank being below the trunk, since the axle and driveshaft took up the space below the rear seat where the gas tank was in FWD cars.
My first car was a 1982 Pontiac J2000 LE, an early one built in the spring of 1981. The carbureted 1.8 OHV engine, underpowered even by malaise-era standards, was as gutless as it’s reputed to be, especially when mated to the 3 speed automatic as mine was. The engine seemed smooth and quiet compared to the Iron Duke in my folks’ Phoenix though, mind you anything would. It would seem rough if I’d just stepped out from the driver’s seat of an Accord though. The rest of the car wasn’t very reliable, but was quite pleasant and luxurious when it worked.
I had a 1989 Dodge Aires K wagon. LOVED IT! really well built, easy to work on. Dirt cheap to own and drive. I bought it for scrap price because the head gasket was blown at 150k. I think I had a hundred bucks in parts and machine work and drove it everyday for two years. I thought it was a good looking car. Of course…I also own a 58 Edsel, haha
I have two examples. My 85 plymouth Reliant se 2.6 and my dads 87 reliant 2.5. Mine was 15 years old when I got it and gave me 3 reliable years with no major issues. The 87 he kept till 97 with no mjor issues and it had 157k when he traded it in for a jeep. 2 cars with bad reps that were fine.
And as a counter example my gen 3 prelude was countless electrical problems.
The most reliable car I ever owned was a 1986 Jaguar XJ12. It never missed a beat despite being a cheap(ish) almost-banger when I had it. .Even got my money back when I sold it.
The even older Citroen DS was pretty dependable too.
The much newer Mercedes wasn’t.
Your mileage may vary !
Yep
In the UK, two seperate Rover k series cars.
Not a single problem or non consumable part needed on either over several years.
The smaller K series engines were pretty good. Wouldn’t say no to a R8 200 even now.
Austin 1800 Landcrab. It was my Boss’ car but I had the use of it provided I paid for all running costs. It was roomy, comfortable and would cruise all day at 75-80 MPH. Fuel consumption was in the 30s. When it broke it was due to normal wear and tear (engine mounting, gear change cables) or because we were foolish (suspension displacer after we hit a rock on a field while hunting rabbits). But the woman I dated at the time refused to get in it on account of it being non-U (she was a Sloaney, yes).
Oh, and a BL Metro 1000 which took me all over the UK without missing a bit – again when it broke, it was due to my stupidity practicing clutchless gear changes.
We have 1996 New Yorker with the 3.5 V6 and the original transaxle. Regular fluid and filter changes make the difference. It has 107,000 miles and is still going strong. The engine, by the way, has a forged crank.
Good source of car info is Consumer Reports. They about always early detect problems. Helps if you do morning warmups old school style, taking it easy until up to operating temp. Have high mileage old Renaults. Also my work truck, a 2008 Chevy Express has 430,000 miles, engine purrs and doesn’t use oil( all maintained religiously. Did have to replace tranny at 320,000 miles, but truck is always overloaded.
Owned a used ’71 Vega hatchback, 4 speed 2 barrel carb engine for about a year. Bought it in ’79 for $600, put a set of take off tires on it that cost $75.00. Only needed a water pump replacement during that time. Didn’t run as well after that, so figured it was time to sell, got what I paid for it. It once had its starter engage while driving, pulled the battery cable to stop it. After re installing the battery cable the problem didn’t reoccur. It did use oil, but didn’t smoke badly.
I was told that my new 79 Chevette would not last. I drove it 60,000 miles in 3 years without any issue, except I replaced the clutch cable at least 3 times. It would tighten up and make depressing the clutch tough. I bought it for $3,700 and sold it for $2,000. I bought an 82 Civic 4 door 5 speed to replace it…best car that I have ever owned. P.S. I never had a car that rattled more than my Chevette. ugh those rattles annoyed me.
77 Volare coupe, owned for about 3 years in the early 90’s. Slant 6/ auto. Don’t have time to go into details, but it was a pretty good car if you didn’t need a lot of power or AC (living in Arizona). The fuel pump is the only issue I remember having to repair, and that was pretty easy.
Still miss my Canadian-spec 1984 Renault Fuego, with its smooth and efficient Bosch injected 2.2 litre engine. Bought cheap from original owner when she couldn’t find a blower motor. AMC/Jeep dealer no help, but found blower through Renault club of America. Comfy seats, fine handling, and a working electric, canvas sunroof! Except for some wonky taillight wiring, totally reliable. Might still driving it if I hadn’t stupidly bent it.
I had a friend with a Fuego in my teens. It was beautiful and comfortable, and it handled great. I was a bit jealous, as it seemed to be a far better vehicle than my Omni.
However, it quickly developed an electrical problem which caused it to smell like rotten eggs. Plus cooling problems. It didn’t last long.
Canadian-spec ’84 Renault Fuego, bought cheap from original owner when she couldn’t find a blower motor. AMC/Jeep dealer no help, but found one through Renault club of America. Very smooth, efficient 2.2 L engine, super comfortable and supportive seats, fine handling. Might still be driving it if I hadn’t bent it in a moment of inattention.
I rise in defense of the humble Renault Le Car! Mine lasted through many Midwestern winters and never let me down. It was excellent in the snow and had some of the most comfortable seats I’ve ever known a car to have. I gave it regular oil changes, a new exhaust once, and not much else. (I may be the only person on the planet who ever got a speeding ticket in one of these.) Yes, the rust worm got it in the end, but all in all I have no complaints, and I still remember that little beast with fondness.
First year, 1976 Dodge Aspen Custom 4-dr., 318 V-8/Torqueflite. Drove it reliably
without problems until 1998…22 years…when offered really silly money for it and sold it. Car is still driven regularly but also appears on the car show rounds, looks box-stock and new though engine has been massaged and suspension includes key police-package parts.
I’ve had more cars with good reputations turn out to be money pits than bad cars turn out to be good. Usually my reading CR kept me from buying the famously unreliable ones mentioned here. There’s a classic car dealer near me with a Vega Wagon parked out front. I’ll need to take some pictures and write a story.
Back before the internet, Consumer Reports was the main source of information about automobile reliability. The only flaw in the methodology was that it took a few years for the reliability results of brand new models to show up. As far as overall build quality, CR used to count sample defects–which was a good indicator of the care a particular car was manufactured. In the 70s, Toyota, VW (Beetle).and Mercedes always seemed to have the fewest defects.
I’ve had the Focus with the DCT for over seven years now and never really thought the clutch had to be replaced. But I did get a new one anyway because it was free. And it behaves way better than the old one, so I’m hoping it’ll last at least another several years.
I understand that the Tempest/Corsica was not considered to be an awful car; just a mediocre one, comparable to the Cavalier. But my experience was a good one.
In 1999 I bought a used, red 1990 Tempest (Pontiac’s version of the Chevrolet Corsica) with 190,000 kilometers on the clock. It had the 3.1, which had quite a bit of power (especially compared to my previous car; a Skoda). I used the Tempest to commute to my low-paying job as a private high school teacher.
The vehicle served me and my young family for five solid years and 150,000 kms, the AC always worked great, and the engine was always smooth and reliable. The only repair I had to do on it was an alternator, though it needed new brake pads every six months (I lived in a hilly area of British Columbia).
It achieved 600 kilometers on each tank of gas, which I found to be very impressive.
2002 Jaguar X-type 2.5 AWD owner here, bought it at 22k miles, had zero issues until we unloaded it on my in-laws at around 50k, they drove it to almost 100k before moving on only due to the cost of servicing at the dealer they used (much of which they could have avoided by using an indy). It never broke down, never had issues that weren’t self-inflicted by us. The internet would have you believe they were horrible cars, far from it.
Jim, I also had a flawless 2002 Jaguar 2.5L X-Type. Great car. Jag management succumbed to BMW-envy and axed the car. I thought it was a perfect entry to British luxury with exquisite wood, leather, and chrome trim. The only change I would have recommended was to make the AWD optional… as I live in the flat lands and don’t need the added weight/parasitic drag/extra axle noises.
2004 X-type 3.0 wagon bought over three years ago. Apart from some generic age-wear (O2 sensor, rear wheel bearing), no problems. Excellent car, hope to hold on to it for some more years.
I have been daily using a 2003 ML350, a Mercedes deadly sin, for 14 years, the mileage is now 159k. While I cannot say it didn’t have problems. But it never gets me stranded. Both engine and transmission are in good operations. The most expensive repair was AC rebuilt — it failed at 130k miles. Other problems were alternator, power steering pump, steerin rack (this was probably mechanic rip-off), center shaft bearing, broken rear spring (common problem for this vehicle) and radio loss reception due to antenna wiring issue. No bad, it is the highest mileage vehicle and longest ownership for me. It is on sale with no taker for 4 months. My plan now is to put it in storage and use in this winter again.
BTW, my neighbor has a 2000 ML320, it has more problems. When he donated it last summer, the mileage was 210k. He intentionally kept this vehicle for so long so that his kids could use as thier first vehicle. After all, it is a safe vehicle for new driver.
The Olds diesel wasn’t the first time GM failed at using a gas engine as a base for for a diesel engine and it wasn’t the last time they tried either.
First time was the GM Toro Flow diesel engine.The Toro Flow was used in GM heavy duty trucks. It was an absolute piece of junk. It had a terrible reputation and they regularly failed. The original gas engine was a line of V6 and V12 gas engines that were used in GMC pickups, medium duty and heavy duty trucks. As a gas engine it was a less than stellar product. Dropped exhaust valves were a fairly common failure. Sparkplugs were located between the intake ports in the vee of the engine.The intake manifold was an airgap style meaning it dip not close off the top of the engine block, it sat above it so there was always plenty of crud under the intake and you had to get all that crud blown out of there before you pulled sparkplugs or you might have crud dropping into the cylinder when you pulled the plugs. Another fine piece of engineering was the PCV valves locations. There were two PCV valves one located under each valve cover, screwed into the top of the intake port. So you have to pull the valve covers to change the PCV valves, mechanical cam so you may as well check valve lash while your in there. One more fun thing, some of the PCV vales were made using some type of rock hard black steel. These type had a bad habit of breaking when you tried to remove them. The ports they were screwed into were pipe thread so good luck getting them out if it broke off. Another wonderful idea was the engine governor used in medium and heavy duty trucks. It operated using oil pressure and was controlled by a spinning valve on the bottom of the oil pump. So if you have a governor problem start by draining the oil and remove the oil pan. Last marvel was the carbs used on them. Two barrel on the V6’s and TWO, yes two 2 barrel carbs on the V12. The typical truck would bog, nearly stall on take off, then it would usually cough, stumble and backfire and away you go. V6’s ranged from 305 c. i. to 478 c.i., the V12 was 702 c.i.
After the Olds diesel debacle came the 6.2L diesel used in the pickup line, basically a design based on the big block Chevy. Head gaskets must have changed 1/2 dozen times. Cyl heads had a coolant passage on the surface of the head that didn’t have any function but cause coolant leaks as the head gasket didn’t seal that area very well. The hole should have been round so a freeze plug could have sealed it. The fix was a weird shaped brass plug that was hammered it with a similarly weird shaped piece of plastic. Glow plugsfailed regularly and would break off when you tried to remove them. If they broke now you need to pull the cylinder head to retrieve the pieces. Rear crank seals failed regularly. High pressure fuel pumps leaked regularly and were a huge pain to pull and expensive to repair. The high pressure fuel pump was a piece of junk sourced from the AG industry, commonly used on farm tractor engines. They also paired this with the 700R4 trans, so it was a toss up as to what would fail first, engine or trans. At least the rear end was safe, never had to much stress as the rest of the power train was struggling to even run. The 6.2 supposedly had Detroit Diesel engineering involved which was supposed to be a big help but GM had already screwed that up too. Detroit had supplied the 4-53 turbo charged diesel to GM for use in the Chevy and GMC medium duty trucks. That was another disaster, piston and connecting rod failures. So then Detroit Diesel came out with the 8.2L V8 diesel. The non-turbo ones were total dogs, the turbo ones were fare performers but the trucks were often way bigger than the engine could handle. Head gaskets were a big failure on these also, another black eye. So if you ever wonder why GM is in such as mess just gotta look at the morons and bean counters that drove this company into the ground. By the way I worked for General Motors from 1978 thru 1986, GMC Truck and Coach Division, GM owned the Inter-city bus business, 17% of the heavy truck market, 30% medium duty truck market and absolutely cornered the diesel locomotive market. Supplied the ONLY automatic transmission to the medium duty and heavy duty truck market. All of this business was LOST or sold off or just dropped by these idiots. Only item remaining is the Allison transmission that is used in the pickups. Allison turbine engine company is owned by Rolls-Royce and Allison Transmission that supplies transmissions for medium duty and heavy duty trucks is a stand alone company not part of GM.
Kind of a long rant but it is what it is.
“6.2L diesel used in the pickup line, basically a design based on the big block Chevy.”
This is inaccurate, they are not related.
Maybe off subject but why is this bodystyle Cutlass so popular with criminals? Every cop show I see it seems like the person getting busted drives one of these.
In the mid-70s my parents owned a ’72 Chevy Vega notchback, a base model stripper with the only option being the AM radio. They purchased it with 35k miles from a private owner for $700 on a rainy day. Over the next 2 years they ran it up to just over 100k miles as a commuter car. No problems at all. They loved it.
The Hillman Imp. Or Sunbeam Imp, depending what country you live in. This little car has a very bad reputation, not all false. A typical example of bringing it out on the market without proper testing – where did we hear that before?
However with the many I have had over the years I never had real trouble with them. I cannot backup horrible unreliability stories. Still have one, it will start easily even after standing for a few months. Its achilles heel for me are the tiny drum brake wheel cylinders, they always WILL leak. So now I am going to mount front disc brakes. This is a common mod for Imp lovers.
Imps had a terrible rep but our neighbour had one when I was a kid it always went when she wanted to go out and the across the street neigbour was the local Hillmam dealer he said hed never repaired anything on that car, there are still a lot left in NZ so some of them must have been ok.
Yes, I bought a Chrysler Centura 245 4 speed a car rubbished by the Aussie motoring press for its poor handling ability and build quality, they were not popular but mine ran fine with the 4.0 hemi six it had more than enough power in fact too much on wet roads for the traction available it was fast comfortable to drive good on gas considering how I drove it and gave little trouble yeah if you cant do opposite lock at a moments notice at speed one of them will kill you if you can they are great fun tyre smoke at 120kmh when you stand on the loud pedal is lots of fun, The NSW police took an interest in it one day and decalared it unfit for the road QLD plates will signify that every time so I sold it and bought a rusty XB Falcon to replace it.
Well, it can work in your favor if you are the curious type. I bought in very good condition a 74 911 for peanuts in 2010 mainly due to herd think fear of pulled head studs taking out the engine. I correctly surmised that keeping it cool and maintained were key to there being no issues at 47 years old…
Never understood the diesel thing. Unless you were hauling heavy loads or an over the road trucker the negatives far outweighed the positives…
I had the family’s Volvo 164E which other than losing the color layer of its metallic pain was basically reliable until after 10 years and around 100,000 miles it chewed up the fiber timing gears but after that it kept running strong until rust claimed it a few years later.
I will note that pre-Internet the most trustworhy information was Consumer Reports’ road tests and frequency of repair surveys, as long as there were enough cars in the data set (and CR was good about reporting that)
Getting in late to the thread but I owned a 1981 Cadillac Eldorado with the much maligned V8-6-4 368 CID V8. I bought it used in 1990 and the system still worked (how I’ll never know). Two things I remember:
1) When the engine was in V4 or V8, it ran smoothly. V6 mode? There was a very noticeable shaking transmitted into the passenger compartment.
2) The cruise control never worked quite right. I’d set it for say 55, and the speedometer would set and then I’d see it fall back to 50 and then surge up to 55, wash, rinse, repeat.
I had the car for a year and a half and it was a good running car. The starter failed and once I replaced it, I traded it on a used Lincoln LSC.
I own and daily drive a 2015 Fiat 500 Pop. It has had no issues in 75K miles. The only thing replaced is the clutch spring due to a recall, but it was fixed prior to any issues ever showing up on my car, and done in conjunction with an oil change, so really no down time to speak of. For all the purported issues with reliability, I have not been affected. I also see a good number of them on the road around central Florida, and we have a pretty strong dealer network, so that may be affecting the whole reliability issue. They do make a good choice for childless folks, younger kids who you don’t want in a powerful car, and those who prefer to drive something small and different but still inexpensive, not cheap. It’s not a penalty box, with great space inside and great visibility. I did run into oil change places not stocking the filters for them, so I learned to change the oil myself rather than go to the dealer. All in all, it has been a joy.
Bought in the Winter of 2018 a 2002 Mercedes S400 CDI with the feared V8 Diesel engine. The car was a special made danish one owner car, which was modified to better cope with the colder/rougher terrain. General statement is that these cars, which are pretty complex and fault prone already (Rust everywhere, the Airmatic or even Active Body Control and a lot of electric gimmicks all around) combined with an overcomplicated and barely fitting engine (space between the engine block and shock tower is less than 2 cm) is a big no no. If anything goes wrong, like the chain tensioner, one of the eight injectors or even the high pressure pump, standard procedure is to drop the engine and figure the problem out on a bench. Done at the MB dealer with hourly wages well above 150 Euros, you are looking at a few thousand Euros for the fix.
Anyway back to the story. Buying cars takes around 40 min most times for me. This car took around 2h. To make sure I did not buy a complete wreck everything was checked out and tried. The car seemed ok and so i negotiated the price a little bit and bought it. Until now, the car is a great runner and never let me down, execpt on two occasions which were not really the cars fault.
Well I owned several Oldsmobile LF9 diesels.
My first 1979 Delta 88 Royals, it had a Goodwrench diesel in it, installed in 1981, I then had a 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix Diesel, loved that car, it was a brougham, loaded, drove great, never had any engine problems, just had to remember to plug it in in the winter in Michigan. I then bought a 1982 Diesel Toronado, 2 tone blue, drove the life out of that car, 3 water pumps, 1 radiator, 2 A/C compressors, 2 alternators, but religiously changed oil every 3000 miles, only used Kendall SuperD3 30, and changed transmission filter and fluid every 40,000 miles and put 489,000 mikes on it. Never had any engine issues. Then I bought a used 1982 Buick Riviera diesel with 48,000 miles and broken head bolt. I studded the engine with ARP studs and I now have 120,000 miles on it and never had another engine issue.
Just bought a 1984 Cutlass Ciera with a 4.3l diesel. Had 69,000 original miles. Garage stored, 1 owner, mint condition. However when trying to set injection timing the #1 glow plug broke and was stuck in head. So I decided to tear it down and fix it correctly. So I have replaced with OEM GM parts, 6 CAV 403 still sealed injectors, glow plugs, vacuum pump, power steering pump and both lines, rack and pinion, water pump, thermostat, 2 temp switches, glow plug controller, A/C compressor, Alternator, coolant over flow tank, EGR valve(which I didn’t think I’d find) water in fuel sender, roller lifter, pushrods, rocker arms and bridges, a FelPro MLS head gasket and repainted it Oldsmobile diesel metallic blue/gray.
I’m finishing up this week and look forward to some great road trips!!!
I want to know about all the improvements they made on the block DX after 81! as it was much improved after 1981! all of the changes on the 1981 up DX block diesel
https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-engines/oldsmobile-350-v8/#:~:text=The%201981%20%E2%80%9CDX%E2%80%9D%20engine%20was,deeply%20threaded%20into%20the%20block.
It’s always water getting into the engine that causes the problem. Olds could have done a better job with a fuel water separator which they did add later. Initially there was a fuel tank sensor and method to drain the tank. On so many vehicles the penny pinchers cause all the trouble, not the engineers or the builder.
There were a lot of GM diesel passenger cars in my hometown in the 80’s. None that I know of had catastrophic engine failure that a lot of people speak of. Most of the problems revolved around supporting equipment like a starter going out, or the injectors, or an oil pump. We had a 1981 Cutlass Brougham. Made it 123k miles in less than 3 years before we traded it in. The only time I remember being stranded was one rare freezing cold Christmas morning when the car stopped because the fuel gelled up. The other thing that drove owners crazy is that these cars just would not start at times without spraying some type of starter fluid into the air filter.
I bought the 1981 Cutlass Brougham diesel new. Loved the car. Fuel about 75 cents a gallon first year. V-8 weight ate up brakes about every 12,000 mi. Used Delvac 15-40 synthetic oil every 3,000 mi. 7 qt change. Would burn a quart every 1000 mi.. Glow plugs failed at Greater Cincinnati Airport winter of 81-82. 10 degrees with 10 inches of snow. Called brother to bring a 50 ft extension cord to plug car into long term lot out building. Waited an hour; fired right up. 30 mpg highway is accurate. Loved to floor-it on I-75 if someone got too close. Dark cloud of smoke from dual exhausts would scare them off. The filter mitt in the fuel tank plugged up at 110,000 mi. Dual batteries was smart/necessary.
Guy hit me head-on in 1984 with 144,000. Totaled and Insurance gave me $1800. I was devastated. Burgundy exterior and the same cloth interior. I recall the twin front grills were spring loaded to push back from the top? Always garaged and plugged in during winter.. Great article. Memories
Yes! For one day actually!
A friend of mine from church had a 1980 Bonneville Brougham diesel that GM had replaced the first diesel engine out under warranty. Then, right after that, someone clipped the front end.
I owned an 81 Bonneville Brougham with the ever popular 265! I had found a local two door 1980 BB diesel that had a perfect body and interior, but blown head gaskets.
Ivan and I offered $250 for the donor car, and it was ours.
He was going to clip the front end, I wanted the dash gages (GM talk) and the honeycomb rims.
We were cleaning it up on my driveway the afternoon we picked it up, when some guy pulled into my driveway and asked us about it. Next thing we knew, we had $850 cash in our hands ( I did take the honeycomb rims!) which was enough for Ivan to fix his car correctly!
Last thing I knew, the diesel was pulled out of the two door we’d sold to be replaced by a Pontiac 455!!!
So yea, it worked out nice for us