The post war history of the rear engine car in Europe, at least for compact vehicles, splits into two groups. Those that followed the concept after the success of the VW Beetle, such as the Hillman Imp and NSU Prinz, and those that shared contemporary birth pangs with the Beetle.
The Renault 10 was the last of Renault’s rear engined saloons, starting with the 1948 4CV and closing in 1976, when Spanish production of the Renault 10 finished, and is a member of the second group. As Paul Niedermeyer recounted in his CC on the Renault 10 back in 2012, the 10 was a development of the earlier Renault 8 (above), featuring a lengthened nose and new rear end on the same centre section as the R8, itself a direct descendant of the 1956 Renault Dauphine, and with links to the 4CV.
Much has been written about the influence of Ferdinand Porsche in the design and birth of the original 4CV, in 1946. Porsche was arrested and imprisoned by the French from December 1945; some accounts suggest this was to obtain his services for France and to contribute to what became the Renault 4CV. Other accounts highlight that the technical secrets of the VW were by then well known, the success of the car not assured by any means and that if one of the French manufacturers had wanted the VW factory and its product, it could have been easily arranged. After all, the American and British industry moguls had all turned it down.
There was a key difference in comparison with the VW as well – the engine in the rear engined Renaults was always water cooled, in contrast to Porsche’s VW and Ledwinka’s Tatra, so care is needed in any suggestion of inspiration. What is clear is that Porsche consulted on the design to some extent, but given the launch date of 1946, it is not clear how much impact he had.
The Renault 10 was launched in 1965, as a perfectly capable compact car, with a conventional configuration. The engine had by now reached 1108cc and would later go to 1289cc, with larger square headlights a visual distinction. If you want to continue the VW parallel, could be seen as France’s VW Super Beetle – the final roll of the rear engine dice for their respective manufacturers. By then, the Renault 10 was an anachronism in the Renault range, alongside the front wheel drive compact Renault 4 and the truly innovative Renault 16
The Beetle lost its pre-eminence in Germany to the Opel Kadett and the Ford Escort; the Renault 10 was beaten by the Peugeot 204 and Simca 1100, both front wheel drive, transverse engine cars.
Driving wise the car had strengths in its decent performance, especially with the later 1.3litre engine, easy controls, strong brakes and decent cornering, up to the limit. Weaknesses were directional stability and implications of the configuration compared with the hatchback Simca or the estate version of the Peugeot, and those imposed by the age of centre section inherited from the Renault 8 and itself based on that of the Dauphine.
Still, to see one in daily use in south western France reminds me of another reason for going there on holiday…….I’ll be back soon.
So many fond memories of these cars !
Many,many happy motoring miles.
I recall seeing these occasionally in the U.S. To me, they lacked the charm of the older Dauphine – the more modern styling of this car seemed cold and sterile.
It now occurs to me – is this the longest front overhang of any non-fwd car ever? The front overhang looks longer than that of the back, which contains all of the mechanical parts. Wow.
One of these was for sale miles from me, on ebay of all places! I came perilously close to pushing the button, but decided against it. Probably a good choice, but neat car nonetheless.
Smart man…
I spotted this article about the R10’s older sibling the R8.
http://www.oldcarscanada.com/2011/08/1966-renault-8.html
And I spotted this vintage French ad of the Renault 6 where 2 guys talk about their cars saying it’s the best car and not knowing until the end it was the same car.
I guess I don’t understand the economies of Europe, other than post-war damage and shortages of many things, but by this time, why would a 4 door sedan have sliding glass in the rear doors rather than roll-down windows?
One thing is for sure, compare the 1968 Renault to a 1968 Chevelle and see just how many worlds apart the markets were!
I pose the question because I see this feature on many European sedans and am just curious.
Americans must be spoiled, but this country’s OEMs sure got on the fixed-glass bandwagon on coupes! Dastardly European OEMs…
I grew up in the USA and moved to England 10 years ago.
The best way to explain this is to imagine going about your daily life in the States using a Scenicruiser as your main vehicle, requiring commercial vehicle tax rates and inspection and the fuel bill, parking nightmare, and general difficulty in getting around a corner.
It just was not made for the urban environment. European commutes are shorter, traffic denser, parking nonexistent, and in cities that were not bombed and then rebuilt into a modernist dystopia, roads have not changed since the 1400s. I drove a Mercedes w126 in England and hated it- every journey required thinking, as it wouldn’t fit in many car parks, and on some country roads, it stuck into the oncoming lane.
In England, there wasn’t a comprehensive motorway network that could get you from one side of the country to the other without having to drive on London surface streets until the late 80s.
Also, although there were always cheap ‘popular’ cars in Europe, most cars were much more technically dense and better equipped than equivalently priced American cars. Compare that R10 with its real wood dashboard to a bare bones ’68 Falcon. Although they were the same price in US dollars, that has more to do with European debt and exchange rates than it does with the car’s actual cost to an average European family. Conversely, in England, a Mercury Monarch or AMC Pacer cost the same as an XJ6 due again to exchange rates and taxation. This was obviously as much of a source of amusement to Europeans as chintzy foreign cars were to Americans. Everything makes sense in its own context.
Excellent response, Brian.
“Everything makes sense in its own context”. Interesting thought for the day.
As a kid, those sliding windows on the Renaults (and early Minis) amused me – they just seemed so odd, a weird solution to the problem of opening a window. As an adult, they kinda make sense – though I wonder how they would have gone in the back doors of GM’s downsized intermediates instead of fixed windows?
Western Europe was still recovering from the war when these cars were designed. Much of the area had been laid waste during the war. When my uncles were there in the late 1950’s, they told me there was still a lot of damage around. Cars were a luxury and prices had to be kept to a minimum. They also didn’t have the volume North America had, so corners were cut. The Mini had similar windows.
My family travelled to London in 1959 to visit relatives. As a young child at the time, one of my clear memories is of the many un-rebuilt bomb sites still visible, 14 years after the end of the war. It’s hard now to comprehend just how much destruction there was across Western Europe in the space of 6 years, and how long it took many countries to rebuild.
In the mid and late sixties, even in the early seventies, it was still pretty common that an average family didn’t have a car AT ALL. Kids walked to school. Dad had a bicycle or a moped to go to work. Mom and the kids took the bus to go to the city. The boss lend you his car for “special occasions”. And the boss didn’t have a big Mercedes, but a modest Fiat or Opel sedan, with crank windows all around.
Perfectly manageable, as long as the distances are not too long of course. The world also seemed much smaller then and what you didn’t know you also didn’t miss…
So true, Johannes. You bring back memories for me. It was that way even in Australia in the sixties, for poor families in cities. People would walk, and wear raincoats if it was wet. Hats, always. There were a lot more people on trams and buses, trains too. If public transport didn’t go where you wanted, you’d catch a taxi if you could afford to. If a family owned a car, the husband would use it to get to work, but the wife might have use of it one day a week for shopping. Otherwise she would walk to the shops daily, and carry home what she needed. Going to school in a car was really special; everybody looked at you!
My best friend’s family didn’t get their first car until 1974; that was only a little bit unusual. I only knew one family that had two cars, and they were five and ten years old.
Me too, we only had one car until we left Germany in ’81. I only had two friends at the time that had two cars in their family, most only had one, and several still did not have any. Not because they couldn’t afford it but because they did not require one. In one instance Dad rode his bike to the post office to go to work, and Mom walked to the butcher, baker, and market with her handcart in tow. Milk, water, soda and beer were delivered weekly. Vacations were usually done via train.
The average American can not fathom this (of course, the average American has never been outside of the country either so until you see it in person it doesn’t always make sense…), but it worked well because the infrastructure was (and is) set up to accommodate it. Even in large cities with subways the train frequency demonstrates it. San Francisco BART trains come by about every 15 minutes, maybe 10 minutes in the center at rush hour. London, Paris, etc trains are usually 2-3 minutes apart. Effectively NO wait whatsoever. Outlying areas are generally well served with buses etc or usually have their own local economy to support most needs without need to go to the city.
Even nowadays, many European families only have one car and generally it’s at least one size class smaller than what we’d consider acceptable.
Johannes, you hit the nail on the head!
Our family did not have a car until 1971 and dad bought the car only because the factory where he worked moved about 5 km further away. That was too far to be exposed to rain and snow while commuting with a moped. He built the house before he bought a car. That shows the priorities.
I was about 9 years old when we’ve got our first own car. And I’ve got only fond memories of my childhood, never missed one thing. Everything was nearby. Work, stores, school, family, friends. (And that was in a small village) Like I said, for special occasions the solution was also nearby.
A teacher in my grade school had one around 1969-70. I didn’t know it was French, until I went to the 1970 Auto Show.
Excellent find, Roger! I saw all kinds of interesting stuff on the South of France recently but not one of these. Thanks for the history, very interesting.
Thanks Roger for another great read and memory of being a kid in the late 60s and early 70s.A French exchange teacher had one in that same off white colour.I saw the odd one about but Beetles must have outsold them hugely in the UK.Perhaps the Dauphine’s reputation as a rust trap put many drivers off
Never seen one “in the metal” but I do think the restyled front and rear sections make it look less stubby and more modern than the 8.
The car did have several advantages over VW, better MPG, roomier, great 4 wheel disc brakes, and a water cooled engine which gives an improved heater. Too bad it had quality and rust issues. I do recall seeing these back in the 60’s and early 70’s, but they seemed to go away quickly.
I oughta buy one of these just to sort it out and see if any good ~ there must be some un rusted ones in California , non ? .
I had a 1963 Dauphine with the truly awful ” Ferlic Clutch ” ~ an electro-magnetic clutch that worked off the generator’s field current….
Whew , that thing was terrible although I liked the basic Dauphine .
-Nate
Renault Dauphines, R-8’s and R-10’s were always silky in the way they drove – my only problem w/them were lack of service facilities in the Seattle area – but I enjoyed them! I worked at Boeing and my carpool guys wouldn’t ride in them ! When I finally got a VW, one of the guys called me a Nazi lover and that was the end of the car pool ! Those cars (the Dauphine and the Beetle) were just fun to drive on the old highways to work…..the beetle of course had it all over the others in workmanship ! (and ride) Those were the days my friend, those were the days…as the tune goes !
I think Renault was smart to supply both, rear engine and front wheel drive cars. The switch to FWD was a shift in paradigm and a lot of people did not like the newfangled approach. If they wanted to they could have bought Citroen instead. They were conservative and stuck to the things they knew. Once the customers got used to the new age FWD Renault could phase out the rear engine models. The early adapters may have been beta testers for CV joints.
Wish I could own one so badly!! Renaults from the 4CV up until the 10 have this wonderful quality of being both very whimsical and very industrial looking at the same time, which I always thought was best exemplified in the front end of the R8 – the mean eyebrows and big eyes combined with the obvious, straight gaps where the fenders meet the grille/front fascia. I love all of them and even if I can’t have one, I really hope I can at least get a ride in one some day.
The 10 apparently stayed in production in Argentina for quite awhile after European production stopped, because when I look through South American classifieds I always see tons of them with model years up until about 1980. That so many still exist down there (and most as daily drivers) leads me to believe that they weren’t quite as frail as their reputation in the U.S. suggests. That’s also probably the best way to get one here, because I’ve never seen an 8/10 on American roads.
This was actually done for a reason, the reason being to get a better view of the road ahead of you.
The Renault 8 is a design of French Industrial designer Philippe Charbonneaux
who is also responsible for the design of the later R16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Charbonneaux
RE : ” too Frail for America ” .
IMO , this reputation is due to a few factors :
NO ONE in America ever takes proper care of their automobiles ! (before you flame me , remember : I’m the guy who fixes all those ” worthless , junk ” old cars , trucks and Motos) you killed .
Also , Some European and most British Manufacturers simply didn’t understand our National penchant for running the wide open spaces at speed for hours at a stretch so some of their products had little chance of surviving because of the other American fault : insisting the Machine bend to your will rather than operating it within it’s design parameters ~
I have crossed America many times in woefully underpowered or old tech vehicles and always did just fine because I am not stupid enough to believe the poor little machine will take intentional abuse and keep on going .
This is on American rigs too ~ old Chevies didn’t have pressure lubrication to the rod bearings so even though they’d easily go 75 MPH @ 1/2 throttle , they didn’t do so for long .
Likewise , anything with a flathead engine (old Chryslers,Dodges,Plymouths,DeSotos etc.) ran just fine until you ran them over 50 MPH in top gear ~ the lack of overdrive meant serious overspeeding of the engine followed by overheating and burned valves etc. , lots of bent cranks and flat spots on the rod bearing journals .
English cars too , failed to install overdrive on everything as standard equipment so they were buzzed to death in about 50,000 miles and died like flies .
Too bad as I’ve traveled them all for decades and always enjoyed the trip .
-Nate
Re. the Mopar flatheads with no overdrive – I never understood Chrysler’s bias against OD. It seems like almost every old Ford or Studebaker you find with a 3 speed would have OD on it until well into the 60s. But Chrysler, so far as I am aware, never even offered it. A Mopar flattie (or even a slant 6) could have been a lot easier to live with on the highway with OD.
Which is odd since Chrysler essentially invented it!. From my OD post:
“Borg-Warner’s “automatic” overdrive premiered on a car that was quite advanced and adventurous in other ways: the 1934 Chrysler and DeSoto Airflow. Allpar has this to say about the origins of the B-W OD:
The “fourth gear” using the (Rex) Keller clutch was invented by Chrysler, but to avoid $25,000 in tooling costs, Walter P. Chrysler chose to have Borg-Warner make and supply it. That meant that competitors could also buy the system (Breer book, p. 124),
Could the subject be turned about though, and stated that if these European vehicles were not suited for our roads, they shouldn’t have been sold here in the first place?
I see what you’re saying about operating the vehicle within its design parameters, but how does Mr. Average Joe go about finding out what those are if they’re not in the manual? The salesman sure isn’t going to tell you. Most people just want to get from A to B with a minimum of fuss, and if the car will do 70 MPH down the highway for hours on end without making any particularly ominous noises, they’re going to do so, and if they’re not a gearhead, won’t comprehend why it’s not a good idea until the thing blows up. It’s like you said, but I’m not sure how they’re going to come to know this stuff in the first place. (I’m assuming pre Internet Age here!)
Neglecting regular maintenance, on the other hand–that’s just lazy.
Well Chris ;
Back in the day , the rallying cry for Europe in general and Great Britain in particular was ” EXPORT OR DIE ! ” and of course , America was the # 1 country everyone wanted to export to .
English cars are not bad IMO , just improperly equipped for yeoman duty in The Colonies .
I tend to shop for most of my vehicles in junkyards because I can always find good condition , low mileage vehicles that only need a whole buncha ‘ deferred ‘ maintenance done to make then the good daily drivers they were designed to be .
Junkyard vehicles tend to have been ‘ fixed ‘ less too so less DPO/DPM bodges to sort out .
They’re usually cheaper too .
-Nate
Still have one
Never restored, 100% Original paint.
love that yellow multiple lensing. is that a Gordini?
No, ‘t is its poor sister, the R8S, which sounds great in bars, people immediately make the link with an Audi..
Very nice. Always had a thing about R8s, the Gordini and S, with those nice fat wheels and tires and extra lights in front. I could really see having one of these, maybe even more than a Corvair? Loves me some ass-heavy oversteer! 🙂
Are performance parts avaliable for the R10 ? Where should I look ?
Nice car……saw a nice R8 Gordini this afternoon in Tonneins, Lot et Garonne
Nice car. Rome registered; those rear plates are the most perfect shape and design in platedom. Got one on my wall.
Actually, you mention my biggest problem with this car.
I should have it registered on old fashioned Dutch blue plates, but I mean, who has a car with a licence plate that says ROMA, and the old style little front plate.
All as the car was delivered in 1970, even the rear plate surround from the dealer who supplied the car and who does not exist anymore.
These plates have disappeared in Italy now with the `lovely´ EU legislation.
we´re all becoming Germans, white plate, black letters.
I know I am sentimental.
Keep them on if you can. My uncle repainted the one I’ve got and it was a sloppy job, so I’m going to take it back to metal. Interestingly, the star above the the ‘OMA’ on yours isn’t painted. I’m assuming that’s how they came out of the prison.
These are plastic, a sort of soft curvy Tupperware like plastic.
The white of the letters is just silk screened on.
*VERY* nice indeed ! .
All original cosmetics ? that’s outstanding .
-Nate
My wife had one in the 70s, F reg like the one in the advert, bought for her to go to university by her father, and she kept it for several years. I drove it quite frequently and it was a great little car, happy to roll along at 80mph for hours. Extremely comfortable too.
We took it to Switzerland and on the way back, just into France, the head gasket went (we hadn’t added more antifreeze!) and had to it abandon at a service station so I had to go back a month later when a mechanic put another head gasket on it and it still boiled so he found the head off an old Renault 8, put that on and it worked perfectly. Didn’t even charge me very much! Every old car has a tale behind it, doesn’t it?
It’s funny but I don’t remember those sliding back windows at all, but probably because I never sat in the back.
Even though It had that ‘long’ front it didn’t have a lot of luggage space as the spare tyre took up a surprising amount of room.
Other than the head gasket episode, the car was always very reliable.
My Dad bought one new from Almartin motors on Williston road (near the Airport) in South Burlington. Before that he had a ’59 Beetle, which was parked in front of our house (it was his first “2nd” car, and we only had a 1 car garage/driveway) when one of the kids of a wealthy neighbor at the end of our street ran into it and totaled it. My Father at that time had been making many trips to France (Corbais-Essones, south of Paris) and I think that played into why he bought the Renault, though he’s a pretty impulsive car buyer, I’ll have to ask him why he choose it back then over other makes.
I think the Renault was slightly better equipped than the Beetle would have been even if he bought a new ’68, though it had full vinyl interior (no carpet back then) the seats were pretty nice as I remember, and it was a 4 door…you couldn’t get that in a beetle.
I remember it had Michelin radials, though I don’t think it was my father’s first car with radials, I think we actually had them on our ’65 Olds F85 wagon right before that. I was a bit too young to have driven the car, as he traded it in for a Datsun the year I started driving, more than likely the reason was to get a car with Automatic transmission for my mother (who can drive standard but only if she has to) and probably for us too, though I myself haven’t owned a car with an automatic since 1981. My most vivid memory was going to a Washington Senator’s game with my father (we had moved to northern Virginia a couple years after he bought the Renault) and the clutch went, so he drove the 35 miles home, through the stoplights and traffic, trying to avoid stopping so he could keep it in gear. The car never had many miles on it, and I think when he traded it in in 1974 it only had about 22-23 thousand miles. I don’t believe the engine was water cooled, it was in the rear, but I don’t recall any radiator…the front trunk was pretty shallow but certainly bigger than that of the beetle….it was kind of like the “family” version of the beetle with 2 more doors and a bigger trunk. His car had no options, there was a 2nd compartment with a door where the radio would have gone.. I think it had an automatic choke, but 4 speed manual gearbox. I don’t remember the fender mounted sideview mirror, I think his was located on the driver’s door. The rear side windows did have sliding opening (guess they were flat, not curved glass) though the front windows wound into the door as is usual.
I guess the writing was on the wall for rear engined cars by the mid-70’s when he traded it in (for a conventional front engine rear drive Datsun). My mother never liked how the car looked, she thought it was too symetrical (like you could hop in the back seat and turn it around and drive it backwards and it would be hard to tell that you were doing it from outside). Of course, she also didn’t like that it was a manual, and I don’t recall her driving it much (she drove our F85 instead).
Ah the R10… Part of Renault’s “ugly duckling” series of oddball designs from the 60s-70s, along with the R6, R12, R15 and other catastrophes (esthetically speaking).
Just one thing: the last rear-engined Renaults built in Spain in 1976 were R8s, not R10s. Even in its home market, the R8 outlasted its bigger stablemate by a couple of MYs. I guess R10s weren’t a huge hit anyplace. Even the Romanians (Dacia) didn’t bother with it. Though somebody else did — the Bulgarians!
http://media.snimka.bg/4450/015156184.jpg?r=0
Nice car……saw a nice R8 Gordini this afternoon in Tonneins, Lot et Garonne