(first posted 10/16/2015) Speaking as someone who once traded a ’54 Buick for a ’68 Lincoln, I don’t have that much against big, ostentatious cars, but GM’s ’71-’78 E-bodies (Cadillac Eldorado, Oldsmobile Toronado, Buick Riviera) even give a guy like me pause. This example, from the last year before the inevitable downsizing that had already swept the rest of the lineup, turned up in the parking lot at Old Kingsbury Aerodrome near San Antonio last May, and was the first one of these I’d seen in years.
220 inches long. A lane-filling 79.8 inches wide. 5000 pounds of inertia to be hauled around by the front wheels with an emissions-strangled, 190 HP 403 V-8. Yep, with soaring gas prices, looming CAFE standards and the overturning of the traditional domestic market by upstarts from Japan and Europe, the heyday for gigantic ‘personal luxury’ barges like the Toronado was just about over.
from http://imgkid.com
After a major redesign for the ’71 model year (see above), the basic structure had been pretty much left alone throughout the car’s run, with the most notable changes being alterations to the grille, a switch from round to square sealed-beam headlights, and the addition of federally -mandated cowcatchers — I mean bumpers. The mighty 455 V8 originally fitted in these cars had been jettisoned at the end of ’76, in favor of the slightly more economical 403.
oldcarbrochures.com
For ’78, the Toronado was offered in two models: The ‘base’ (but very-well equipped for the time) Brougham; and the XS, identified by a rather strange-looking wraparound rear window. The Toro’s front-wheel drive, still a rarity in domestics, was promoted heavily for its handling and packaging benefits, but one wonders if its target market ever cared all that much.
oldcarbrochures.com
By now the biggest car in the Olds lineup, and with the design getting fairly long in the tooth, the market took up just over 24,000 Toronados in ’78, mostly Broughams. By comparison, the mechanically similar but even more bloated Eldorado more than doubled that figure.
The shape is, admittedly, not inspired. Although at first glance the Toro looks as though the stylists were given a rectangular box and told to fill it to the edges, there are some fairly subtle design touches here and there. Probably most distinctive were the high-mounted brake lights tucked up under the backlight, first introduced for the 1971 redesign and years before the Feds mandated them on all cars. Then there are the odd descending creases on the inside ends of the fenders. Fair enough; they add a bit of character.
Alas, a view of the rear of this particular example reveals one of the banes of GM cars from this era: the plastic fillets between the body and the stand-off bumpers have dry-rotted and fallen away. Aside from that, however, she seems in nearly showroom shape.
Heavily-tinted windows precluded getting any shots of the interior, but the brochure page gives the general idea. Oldsmobile did the loose-pillow thing better than just about anyone, and all leathered up, that must have been quite the cocoon to ride around in.
The rest is typical late ’70s Broughamtastic cliché: half-vinyl roof, opera windows, romanesque grille. Yawn. Despite all that, and its aggressive, er, angularity, I think it looks about as good in that (Ron) burgundy color as it’s likely to get. It certainly comes off to these eyes as slightly less pretentious than the contemporary Eldorado, a car I’ve always loathed.
It can be fairly argued that the ’66-’70 Toronados were more stylish, and that the much smaller and lighter generation that followed (’79-’85) made a bit more sense as practical vehicles. If nothing else, however, the ’78 has a certain degree of brutal presence about it. Is it really all that much less justifiable than, say, the Escalade parked nearby? I giggle a bit whenever I see one of these dinosaurs, and I’m glad I’m not paying the fuel bills, but it’s fun to see one in such nice shape.
Further reading:
JPCavanaugh on the first-gen Toronado
Robert Kim addresses the third-generation Toro
Paul Niedermeyer leaves no doubt where he stands on the same-year Eldorado
Hi. I’m another one of those long time lurkers, and I decided to create a username. So here it goes.
I, like many others, am a huge fan of the first gen Toronado. So, I never took the latter generations in high esteem (with the exception of the 90-92 Trofeos). Overtime, the 78s have been models that I have warmed up to significantly. I think that compared to the Buick Riviera’s (which are really only saved by being the final RWD Rivs in the lineup) and the Cadillac Eldorado (a car I don’t necessarily mind but will admit was getting stale and long in the tooth), I think that this Toronado really is a relatively sharp looker. Of course, I am disappointed it isn’t an XS model, the wraparound glass of the XS series always gave the car a bit more style and flair and let it carve out its own niche.
Of course, back in 78, this would be down on the rung in terms of new car purchases. As far as personal luxury coupes or broughams, I would much rather have a Thunderbird, Cougar, Grand Marquis, or Mark V over one. And if I purchased from the General, I would go home in a Firebird Trans Am or if I were a rich man, a downsized Deville instead.
Still, a very nice car, in a very sharp color. Although the rear shot is a bit off-putting, I thought the big Caddies were the only cars in GM’s repertoire that suffered from those disintegrating plastic fillers. Now I (sadly) know better.
Those fender-to-bumper filler panels are so emblematic of GM’s declining quality issues. I can’t imagine anyone paying the big money for one of GM’s premier luxury cars of the time, then watching the filler panels quickly disintegrate before their very eyes, ever buying another GM product.
Even worse, before those panels disintegrated, they warped and became discolored.
But in some cases, that didn’t even matter because the rear bumper had already rusted and fallen off (’73-77 GM A-bodies)!
Does nobody make replacement plastic filler panels for ’70s/’80s GM cars? Given how often I see otherwise nice cars with the plastic rotted away, I’d think there’d be a market for them.
Might be cheaper to get a body shop whip up a set in sheet metal, and paint them to match.
Definitely an interesting car. The car has presence but mostly due to its size and bizarre styling. In an amc Matafor coupe kind of way. Is huge especially the ends. The mid part looks kind of small and the no grill look and weird tail lights were odd. Its not attractive though. If I was going to get a coupe I would get a mark v. If getting a gm. Car 88 holiday coupe has this beat by a mile
dear CURBSIDE CLASSIC HOW DO I GET RID OF THIS DAMB BP ADVERT EVERY TIME I LOG INTO YOUR SITE ITS THERE BLOCKING MY READING HOW DO I GET RID
I’ve already blocked three that do that. What was the ad? BP? I’ll block it too.
Big car but lane filling no, To mark a centreline here each lane has to be 3 meters wide highway lanes are 4 meters wide that car is a little over 2 meters wide so while it might sound quite large measured in inches it isnt really, nice car though not one Ive seen here.
It’s over 6-1/2 feet wide when lanes can be anywhere fro m 10 to 12 feet wide. It’s wide, for a car, but not quite as wide as an 8-foot wide semi.
It’s a fair cop. 80 inches apparently was within the range for a ‘full-size’ car of this era; something about the proportions of the Toro gives the visual impression that it’s even bigger. There’s kind of a similar situation with the current Dodge Challenger.
In 1960, Ford’s Galaxie was a hair over 80″ wide – like 80.2 if memory serves. At that time, there were legal issues in some states due to this width – yet this was also at a time when some states still had roads that were 18′ wide. I’m going to speculate this 80″ width was a glass ceiling of sorts, and going any wider would have been counterproductive for a manufacturer.
Ford was able to squeak by for a year, but would have had a dilemma had this width remained.
The ’60 Ford was 81.5″, which really is pretty wide for a passenger car. But I wonder about that 80″ legal width issue since the 1958 Lincoln already exceeded that (80.3″).
So was the ’60 Ford the widest American car ever? Good question.
The 1954 Crown Imperial is listed at 82 and 7/8 inches wide.
80″ is widely (no pun intended) regarded as the maximum width for a non-commercial vehicle. Note that full-size pickups attained this width sometime in the ’60s or ’70s (depending on manufacturer), and it’s the only dimension in which they have not grown.
The 2004 Maserati MC12 was 82.7 inches wide.
IIRC My ’71 Electra 225 was 79″ wide, Since the ’71-’78 Toro (and Eldo) shared B/C body components, 80″ seems spot on.
The Toronado was 78.5″ wide, not unusually wide for a big American car.
There are a fair number of roads that are 96″ wide (or sometimes a hair less) in the US. I know that there are many in Seattle in that range having driven and followed big trucks through them.
I’m generally not a fan of the huge luxo-barges, but I love this bodystyle Toronado, particularly with the ’77-’78 front clip. I’d take one of these over an Eldorado or Riviera any day!
I like those little Toronado-emblem lights on the front fender blades. I think this was a ’78-only feature
Yeah, and they’re size-matched to the hood ornament. That’s sweating the details.
Nice to remember how they used to sweat the details many people wouldn’t even notice.
Nice article – yes, these 70s models are definitely bloated looking compared to the sleek 66 version. I thought the front looked somewhat ugly, the slide sculpturing a little painful, but the rear with the high mounted taillights looked pretty neat.
They drive well – the 455 had great torque, the 403 less so, but both engines were very smooth.
And for tall folks (I’m 6’6) the front seat with no trans tunnel made for lots of stretch out room.
You would think by now that some aftermarket firm would have gone into production with replacements for those rear (and front, on some models) bumper fillers. There certainly would be a demand for them.
As is, they showed a prime example of just about everything wrong that GM was doing at the time. Pay for all that luxury and its easily outlasted by the cheapest model Corolla available.
For years, at least one company has produced bumper fillers for certain GM models, except in ABS plastic (I think the originals were urethane). Musselman Distributing is one such company that comes up when you do a Google search.
I recall seeing ads in Hemmings, back in the 90s, always posted in the “Cadillac Parts” section. In certain climates, it didn’t take very long for the originals to rot away!
” Musselman Distributing”
THANK YOU ! .
I’ve been looking for these things for my 1980 Caddy Fleetwood Hearse for years .
-Nate
I found replacement bumper fillers for my 1989 Cadillac Brougham through an internet search. The company name is Autorifix and they supply “Thermoformed ABS Plastic” fillers for a variety of GM cars from 1970-1992, according to their web page. They also state on the web page that they supply to many more cars than those GM cars listed on the web page, just call.
I can only speak from my experience when ordering on two separate occasions (first front, then rear replacements) at least a year apart and I’m not affiliated with this firm in any way. I ordered over the phone after finding the parts listing on the web page. The parts arrived within a few days, primed and with instructions included if you want to do the job yourself. I sent my car to a body shop, they painted and mounted the fillers. Some minor modification was required to assure a proper fit, but nothing major. The fillers looked fine and I was pleased with the results.
For those of us that appreciate and enjoy the cars of the era, the bumper fillers (sometimes referred to as fender extensions) are a problem on many of these cars as they age. I’m familiar only with deterioration of bumper fillers on GM’s of the era, it may well be an issue with others. The expense of replacement is a consideration when purchasing one of these cars. I think that total cost for front and rear to purchase parts and have a the body shop paint and mount was approaching $2,000 with the body shop getting the larger portion of the money. But the cars look terrible with busted fillers, as indicated by the unfortunate rear on the otherwise fine looking Toronado and, once replaced, they should be good for another few decades. By then, bumper fillers won’t be an issue for me anymore.
So why were these plastic fillers used, anyway? Was it to facilitate easier front and rear styling facelifts (allowing for new front and rear fascia shapes without needing different fenders), or were they needed to keep 5mph bumper hits from damaging the bodywork? Even when in good shape, they didn’t look very good, with extra cut lines and paint that often seemed to look a bit different than the surrounding metal. They seemed to warp easily too.
I haven’t seen them in years (decades?), but I do remember seeing ads for a company that sold those bumper filler panels…..though usually for more mainstream models like Chevy Caprices or Cadillac De Villes.
It’s my guess these parts MIGHT still be available if you were to look in magazines like Hemming’s Motor News, or looked through a catalog from some company dedicated to restoring older cars.
Syke, do you really think the 403 with similar maintenance would have a shorter life than the Toyota 1.6. Or that the THM 425 would be shorter lived than the Toyoglide Aisen Warner transmission. Do you think the Corolla was better protected from rust.
Obviously the Toro was 10 times more complicated than a Corolla and since the size was verboten in the 80s most died in the ghetto of low resale value. The Toro was a high quality, high technology car that Olds should have been proud of. The plastic fillets drying out and cracking at year 10 is hardly the issues that the overheating and cracked cylinder heads of the BMW or the lousy AC and rough shifting autos on MB that plaqued those otherwise nice cars.
I had an ’80 Corolla, it was rusted but reliable, Drove it with a dead starter for half a year, the clutch of unknown age and provenance held up to routine roll starts (I lived in the mountains), ended up driving it to the junkyard. For years I joked the engine was still powering someone’s milking machine.
A couple years ago, I picked up a set of reproduction bumper fillers to replace the ones on my dad’s ’78 Olds Delta 88 from a seller on eBay. They were also selling sets for other GM vehicles as well.
Indeed, for the price of a luxury GM vehicle that would last three, maybe four, years, tops, you could get 2.5 Corollas that would take you through the better part of three decades.
It seems that because the separate divisions still had a fair amount of autonomy at this point each was allowed to pick their own formula for the polyurethane used on those filler panels. Cadillac seems to pick the least durable of the bunch. 10-15 years old and they had disintegrated on most of the Cadillacs. Meanwhile the ones used on Buicks seemed to hold up very well.
Case in point I had a 77 Eldo in the early 90’s and they were mostly disintegrated, meanwhile the ones on my 76 Electra were still in great condition in 2013 when I got rid of it. Both cars had spent all of their life in the Seattle area and at least on the Buick I know that it was not garaged from 1985 on when it became the back up car for the person I bought it from.
I am glad they kept making these till the 79s were ready. The 77-78 Riv shows what the alternative was. A lightened car with improved handling and higher performance than this car. So why wasn’t it better. It was simply less special, being a little to obviously a tarted up Lesabre. People will be here complaining about the style of these Toronados, but lets face it, there is a lot of the 68 Eldorado in the shape. More than the 78 Eldorado.
This is a huge traditional coupe. It is quiet, rode well, was comfortable inside and cast a distinctive shadow. The front drive and still monster torque from the still Olds engine made it far more technically interesting than the more common Mark V. Sounds just about ideal to get someone who has made it in life to part with a whole lot of money to obtain it. People will complain that it is too big or that the in crowd was buying the 630csi in 1978. Good for them, but that does not mean that there should not be other choices, this was an interesting one.
The 79 Toronado answered most of the complaints of the in crowd and Olds buyers made that style the most successful ever. The in crowd ignored the 79 Toro and stuck with the 630csi for the whole 14 years of it. That is their choice, but it perhaps proves that they really just did not care about the Toro and are not great sources of wisdom on it.
I wish I could warm up to these more, but they just leave me cold. I love the styling of the original ’66 Toronado. Subsequent facelifts to that basic shape didn’t help it though, and for the later 1960s my taste would have shifted to the crisper Eldorado.
Based on sales, the marked evidently agreed, so it’s not surprising that for 1971 the Toronado was made to look quite a bit like the outgoing 1970 Eldorado. So while the real Eldorado got fatter and more baroque for ’71, the Toronado sort of filled the void. Sales improved, but it was no longer a leading-edge car in any way.
By the time this ’78 was produced, the “Fat Elvis” syndrome had taken hold, with the car looking like a bloated caricature of its former self. Also, the Cadillac-style rear bumper introduced in 1975 made the car look even more like a bad Cadillac imitation. I’d take a 1978 Ninety-Eight Regency coupe any day over one of these.
Same here, my favourite Toronados by far are the 66-67s. I would prefer a ’78 Eldorado over this Toro for sure.
CAN’T SLEEP! CAR WILL EAT ME!
I know opinions are like ***holes, but that thing is fugly.
Thanks for the great write-up. I’ve always felt conflicted about these cars. For me, they’re at an immediate disadvantage being wedged between the inspirational 66-70 Toronados, and the classy 79-85 models. Bloated, yes, but in comparison to the overly pretentious Eldorados, they look almost sophisticated.
The reason I feel conflicted at all is largely because of the subtle design touches that you mention. I recall when these cars were new, being almost enthralled by the high-mounted brake lights (if I remember correctly, they functioned as turn signals too). And the side creases provide just enough visual interest to make it an intriguing design. Those subtle features were almost enough to swing the pendulum into the “like” category for me.
Ultimately, I would not have bought one, but I still like admiring them. That said, I don’t remember ever seeing the XS model on the road. Since I’m not much of a fan of the claustrophobic-feeling opera windows, the fishbowl-like wraparound window is a nice touch, but may be too much of a good thing.
Eric, I was fortunate enough to own a ’78 XS (yeah, it DID stand for excess!!). It is one if very few cars I owned that I wish I still had/hadn’t traded.
The quality (for GM of the 70’s) was outstanding and the wrap around window looked like nothing else on the road. The high mount rear lights served as brake and turn signal lamps and the little fender “T’s” lit up at night as well. It was little touches like this that made the car stand out from most of its ilk of the day.
I had a ’66 Toro as my “winter car/beater” at the time and there was quite a difference in the ‘flavor’ of the two; the ’66 was most assuredly sportier feeling than the ’78. The black leather loose pillow look seats were absolute heaven. No car I’ve owned since approached the comfort of this beast. The ’79-85 generation was nice in its own way but Toro never was this comfortable again. The 403 was more than adequate despite the girth and it allowed me to pass a few more gas pumps than did the 425 of the ’66.
Sadly, in the more materialistic 80’s, I felt the car looked outdated and out of place among all the new ‘downsized’ cars. I traded her off on a 2 tone grey ’82 Toro in ’86 and regretted it quite shortly thereafter; while nice, the downsized car had nowhere near the personality the XS possessed.
Since I was a glutton for punishment, that Toro went for an ’87 “sh”Riviera in 90. That is a WHOLE sad saga of its own!!
XS = excess. Was that an inside joke? 🙂
A neighbor had a 1973 Toronado; metallic brown with a lighter vinyl top and interior (what else?). She traded a 1966 Bonneville Safari wagon for it. Where the Bonneville would easily take the entire cub scout troop to different scouting events (she was the den mother), the Toronado would accommodate six adults comfortably due to the flat floor and wide bench seats.
Yeah, I couldn’t believe they used “XS” as a model signifier either. I know they intended to sell a T-topped XSR which was pictured in the ’77 brochure but only that one prototype was ever built.
You know, I like it except for the stupid vertical taillights. That just looks like a desperate attempt to ape Cadillac.
They’re not even taillights, just reflectors that don’t light up. The ’77 model didn’t even have those, just a body- or vinyl-roof-colored plastic filler panel where the taillight lens would normally be. It was a really weird styling touch.
Aside from being gargantuan in size with really odd detailing, what bothers me about these Toronados is the proportions. The passenger “compartment” looks too small compared to the rest of the car. Truly looks like a barge. From some angles the hood looks as long as the trunklid.
As was already noted, the model name “XS” must have been a bit of an inside joke.
I like the 79-85 models better than this one, but that model also falls short with it’s lackluster detailing. I prefer the 79-85 Riviera or El Dorado more than the Toronado.
My uncle had a 77, I was always fascinated by the flat floor, front drive and huge accelerator which my cousin liked to put to the floor sometimes…:) It was nice, comfortable and unique.
Thank you for writing this up. I found a ’72 Toronado back in May but haven’t been inspired enough to write it up.
From some angles, these evolved a lot visually between 1971 and 1978. The square headlights and changes to the rear contribute heavily in that regard. It strikes me that Olds was doing a decent job of making changes to keep this car vital through its run, especially with the wraparound back glass the later models could have.
The 1971-72 Toronados are reasonably handsome, and are even an improvement over the 1968 and 1969 models, which suffered greatly from a ham-fisted facelift of the front grille and bumper. The 1970 model, however, was better.
The first-generation Toronado never met its sales expectations, so Oldsmobile decided to change course and make it a cut-rate Eldorado without any suggestion of sporting intentions. The second-generation of the Toronado sold better than the first-generation cars, although sales were probably helped by some negative customer reaction to the controversial boat-tail Riviera.
Once GM added the mandated 5-mph bumpers to the Eldorado, Riviera and Toronado, it seemed to lose “control” of their proportions. Those cow-catcher bumpers added to the front and rear made the cars looked bloated and gross.
And the expected “brougham” touches of this era – vinyl roof, opera windows, wide side moldings – are tacky and even somewhat poorly finished and installed. This was a problem shared with the Eldorados of this period. Ford in general, and Lincoln in particular, were simply much better at this sort of thing. It was as though Ford at least designed the car with these stylistic touches in mind from the beginning, and then designed the necessary trim to actually fit the car.
As for whether the target market cared about the Toronado’s front-wheel-drive layout – in the Popular Mechanics “Owners Reports” series, a significant percentage of owners mentioned that the front-wheel-drive layout was one reason for buying a Toronado. It was one thing that they specifically liked about the car.
Eldorado owners, on the other hand, really didn’t care.
Can I tell you that my sister took my Mom’s ’72 Toronado to college in the blizzard of ’78 and was the ONLY one that didn’t get stuck on the highway! That car went through everything. It was a tank, but it surely lived up to the reputation of being a FWD bulldog!
We had a FWD car during that blizzard, but it was a lowly Subaru DL (before they all came standard with AWD some years later, though there was a 4WD wagon in 1976 when my Dad bought it new). My car (a Datsun 710) was as usual parked outside, and it was the only time during my 5 years with the car that it wouldn’t start, I remember the seats feeling like a block of ice (we lived just south of Burlington, Vt back then). I was midway through my undergraduate studies and had to bum a ride into town from my Dad that whole week. Our driveway was long but flat, we had a snowblower but recall that there was lots of ice too, and difficult to get traction even to get out of driveway. Somehow we managed. We frequently broke the belt on the snowblower and you’d think we’d keep plenty of spares, but no, I remember trudging up into town (maybe 3/4 mile) to go to the hardware store to buy a belt when it inevitably broke (the snow would refreeze into ice in the impeller unless you spent a good amount of time cleaning it out so it was scrupulously clean)
Haven’t lived in the snowbelt for close to 40 years now…I miss the seasons, but when I think about having to get around back then, the nostalgia fades quickly.
@Zewep :
I can dig it .
I left the East in 1970 and haven’t looked back .
Some of my best friends still live there but as a Blue Collar person I hated the winters, it was like having _two_ jobs ~ the weather then the rusty damned cars .
-Nate
My childhood friends Dad bought a used 71 in 79, he would drive that thing so hard that the 455 gave out. So it was replaced with a 409….and went ever faster! The best part was how the wheels would just spin if you put it too the floor, then the smoke from the front wheels would come right through the front windows. A great car, as long as you didn’t try to turn or stop.
I seem to recall seeing the ’78 GM full line mini-brochure (sent to shareholders?) which included prices. The XS was something like 25% pricier than the Brougham, enough more expensive than a Coupe de Ville to allow for considerable optioning-up of the Caddy and knocking on Eldorado money. That would explain the XS’ rarity.
wow, they did the bare minimum of effort to differentiate it from the Eldorado. from the back I’d have first guessed it was a Cadillac.
Notice that the man in the brochure isn’t wearing his seat belt. In an ad in which it’s pouring down rain and the car’s security is being played up, he’s not wearing his seat belt. I guess it’s ok, though, as the body would roll if he were going more than 10.
In old times, it was ‘bad luck’ to even talk about car safety in advertising. And many still believed the ‘better to get thrown from the car’ tale.
So, ads with unbuckled drivers.
Oh, I know. I’m just pointing it out because you can see it in the pic, hanging against the seat behind his shoulder.
Belts for every occupant on new cars and compulsory use and fitment in the front from model year 1965 was enacted here by 75,with stiff fines if you were caught not wearing one.
Yes, I noticed that as well. No seat belt, it’s raining, and he is obviously on his way back to the office after he just had three jack n cokes at lunch.
Well, that explains the high beams.
I don’t know why but I really like the look of that creme colour one in the brochure
I believe the creme color was actually called Creme, and the vinyl top color is Buckskin. My mother’s 76 Cutlass S had the same color combination.
A neighbor had a silver XS with red vinyl top and wild maroon crushed velour interior…bought it new, as I recall. Enormous car.
I don’t recall seeing leather seats in a car until another neighbor bought a late-70s Porsche 928…bronze with brown leather. All of the big GM cars in the neighborhood had velour or brocade, depending on the age of the car. My parents, of course, got nasty vinyl in all of our cars…didn’t trust us kids to not create stains.
A CC on this era Toronado shouldn’t go by without mentioning the extremely rare ’77 XSR (only one documented prototype built by ASC, although it now appears that a couple others may have been built) that had power t-tops. It wasn’t seriously considered for production due to cost, which would have easily taken it into Eldorado pricing territory.
I’d like to find one of the Toros with the huge wraparound rear window. It is straight out of 1959-’60! Interesting that the ’71-’73 Olds 98s appeared to be updated 1960 Cadillacs too. There must have been still a lot of love for the ’59-’60 B/Cs well into the Mitchell era.
Yeah, the wraparound rear window Toronado XS is like a modern-day 1947 Studebaker ‘Is it coming or going?’ Champion.
“Personal luxury” and “Sport utility vehicle”: the success of marketing speak in defining vehicle segments. What’s “personal” about a 227″ long Toronado [see spec sheet above] or “sporting” about an SUV ?
The flat floor is great, supposedly a benefit of FWD and a feature I’d like to see again instead of a stupid plastic log running down the center of the car eating up space.
These were the pinnacle of excess at that length and Broughaminess with the rear seat room of an AMC Hornet or Nova. The 71 has a clean sort of presence, like a 67 Eldorado, but this one looks like an aftermarket pimp mobile.
They ranked at the bottom of the EPA’s fuel economy list coming in at some obscene number like 6.6 miles per gallon.
They were ridiculous at the time and even more so now.
The 1978 Toronado was rated 13 city 19 highway. The worst cars were 12 cylinder Jags and Rolls rated 9 city. Chrysler corp 440’s available in some cars were rated 8 city.
I really like the earlier years of this series best. I never understood the point of the vertical “things” on the back – it’s like they went to a lot of trouble to make vertical taillights, but I believe these were just reflectors, and the actual lights were still horizontal. (Didn’t the ’74-76 Cadillacs have the same set up?) The earlier, cleaner ones were prettier, especially with the grilles under the headlights instead of in the center of the face.
I’d guess they couldn’t make vertical taillights in that position work within the mandated requirement of no damage in a 5mph collision.
“These were the pinnacle of excess …”
Like today’s full size SUV’s being driven in urban centers, from condo garage to office.
Agree!
The 2nd-gen Toronado was such a frustrating car. Such advanced, ahead-of-its-time engineering – front wheel drive! flat floor! dual air bags! anti-lock brakes! high-mount brake lights! – all mostly wasted on a personal-luxury coupe whos buyers didn’t care about almost any of those things. Why, why, didn’t they use this platform for a four-door sedan and wagon where that flat floor and width would have made for an awesome family car with great 6-passenger seating back when that mattered because minivans and three-row crossover SUVs weren’t a thing yet? Instead, the airbags and (rear wheel only) ABS options were soft-pedaled, and the huge width and flat floor front and back were wasted on a coupe that usually carried no more than two people, and that didn’t have much rear-seat legroom for a car its size.
That flat floor and width were not wasted. In the early 80’s I went with a girl who drove a 73 Toronado. We took advantage of those two features often.
😉
(although it’s straining my mind imagining why the huge width, the bench seat, and hard-to-see-into back seat weren’t enough and you two needed a flat *floor* too ……
Variety is the spice of life, and the floor was flat in back too.
That interior is straight out of the ’76 Ninety-Eight Regency, right? The dash, door panels, and seats look identical. I remember how surprised I was when I first saw the interiors of the downsized ’79 E-bodies which I expected again would share the interiors of the C-bodies (but the downsized ’77 versions) rather than the completely unique and new interiors they received.
Mom’s ’72 Toro was a very nice car. When she got the ’79 Riviera to replace it she referred to the Riv as “small” in comparison to the Toro. When I see these cars in person, it is hard to believe that people actually drove them as an everyday car.
Very sad story – Right now the sister dealership next to me has two 1976 Eldorado convertibles – owned by one elderly gentleman that passed recently – 28,000 miles on each of them – sitting behind the dealership rotting to pieces. They were garaged all of their life. The wife wanted them out of the garage so they were taken in and dropped off behind the dealership. They even have the original Uniroyal wide-whitewall tires on them. I hate to see anything like this happen to old, well-cared for cars.
Note to collectors, don’t let this happen. Ask your family if they want or like your cars. If not, sell to those who will take care of them.
Couldn’t agree with you more Tomcat. It saddens me when this happens and I’m sure it happens more than we know.
This is the blue one. The chrome on these cars is spectacular.
They have the exact same options. I hope they will soon get into the right hands so that they can be preserved for another 40 years. It doesn’t take long for a vintage garaged car to succumb to the elements, especially here in New England!
Just put ’em on the front line ~ I’d think they’d sell in a trice .
-Nate
I wish they would do something with them soon – I heard they may be going to one of the bigger auctions that you see on TV…….
Is this the last car with the heating and A/C controls at the far left of the dash where the front passenger can’t reach it?
What about the 1970 to 1981 Camaro?
Plodge Omnirizons had it “on the left” until the late 80’s……
The ’67 Toronado is one of my dream classic cars and I thought the ’68 and ’69 ruined the styling (’70 was average). And then, the next generation it just became another trite personal luxury coupe. The grille treatment on the early second-generation models was just bizarre but I will admit I like the side sculpting and the rear treatments on all 71-78 models are fine by me.
At the end of the day, a car like this is about as un-athletic as you can get so I don’t mind at all that they were FWD. People are right though, GM should have tried the UPP on a sedan or a wagon instead of a coupe.
I just don’t like any of the headlight set-ups of this entire generation. The ’78 grille is nice but the headlights just ruin it. Also, there is absolutely no way as a new car shopper in 1977 that I would have bought this over the down-sized B/C-bodies. Of course, I’m not the kind of guy Oldsmobile would have been targeting.
+1 on the early second-gen grille treatment. I rather liked it, but had to wonder how much cooling air actually got through to the radiator. Did these run hot?
I wonder if they ever considered a mid-engined UPP-powered car?
Olds spoiled us with the original 1966-67 Toronado design, it would have been a miracle if they could have matched or exceeded with any subsequent model’s styling. 1970 almost regained a bit of that original verve after the botched 1968-69 years.
But, Olds was in the business to sell cars, and if the watered-down 1967-70 Eldorado-esque styling would sell in better volume, then they were happy to do it. Whether Mitchell ever had another blockbuster, triumphant design on par with the 1966-67 styling that could have been applied to this platform, we’ll never know.
What is a shame is that as strongly as he started off and as sterling as some years such as the whole 1965 GM lines were, by the end of the 1970’s as his career closed, he had only the down-sized 1977 full-sized line to redeem his reputation. Too bad it didn’t include a far more aesthetically pure Toronado to his credit as well.
This generation Toro was the plainest and ugliest model, IMO.
“Then there are the odd descending creases on the inside ends of the fenders.”
I love when people notice the same things I do about a car. I found those creases almost as annoying as the high mount stop lamps and bizarre wrap-around rear window. How did these unrelated things all end up on the same car and in what way did they say “Oldsmobile”? Was the plan to trickle down the ones that “worked” to other Olds models? What were they thinking???
Like you GGH06 I have a soft spot for Detroit luxo-liners but not this one.
l’ Odsmobile toronado est très belle comme les ricains savent les faire mais le modèle présenté est incomplet.
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waspak nawak nak, waspak, slak tawa nakak
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These are wonderful! Can I do a post using some of these, and linking back to your pages of images?
– Of course, you can to do it mister Paul…!
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I already did: 🙂
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/miniatures-toys/the-amazing-miniature-streets-of-p-rouet/
But I may do another one. Would you like to tell us a bit more about your “city”?
These are awsome, only 1 nitpicky complaint, The transit bus is too new, A GM “New Look” (fishbowl) or an even an RTS would be perfect!
What is this?
How did I end up here?
Is this person speaking Klingon or imitating a 90s dial-up internet connection?
Am I trapped here?
Send lawyers guns and money!
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http://ken530.skyrock.com/archives/
The complete set.
Hi guys
– Realised by myself..
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– This is it..! so long guys.. that god protect you..!
THANK YOU ! .
-Nate
Oldsmobile might have been saved if they had brought back a rear drive V8 Cutlass, and brought back the Toronado as Oldsmobile’s version of the Chevy Tahoe, GMC Yukon, and Cadillac Escalade, with the “SX” being the larger version, like the Suburban, Yukon XL, and the Escalade ESV. Also, I believe Pontiac might have been saved, if they had done with the Firebird what Chevy did with the Camaro (Retro body style), but they decided to go with the “Solstice”, and it, along with the rest of Pontiac, went the way of the Edsel
One reason for the changes of the second generation Toronado were many complaints about the rough ride, and the desire of the car to be more luxurious. So GM went from a semi uni-body with rear leaf springs to full body on frame with rear coil suspension. The new design was more luxurious and a result of direct consumer input.