(first posted 3/19/2011) It’s no secret I’m a big fan of big old buses. The challenge is what direction to take with them. Given today’s weather, that would be South. You see; it’s already happened, in the third sentence. This 1957 Blue Bird is really quite a find, from a historical perspective. And what comes to mind? A deserted beach in Baja. The never-ending battle between following the call of one’s business or bliss-ness: going to school (on the bus), or playing perpetual hooky (on the bus). And it would be called the All American, no less. So which will it be?
The trick is to try to mix it up a bit; no? So let’s do a little historical business before we start up the Buick nail-head V8 in this old timer and hit the imaginary road.
School buses are pretty much a uniquely North American invention and institution, at least until quite recently, for obvious reasons. And just as this Model T truck was converted to the purpose, so have the majority of school buses over the decades. Slapping a box with seats on the back of a conventional truck has always been the expedient solution. And one that Blue Bird did from the very earliest days itself, beginning in 1927.
Needless to say, the wooden crates had their limitations, and Blue Bird claims to have pioneered the first all-steel school bus in 1937. And they were an active participant in the 1939 conference where school bus yellow was agreed upon to henceforth announce the coming of the dreaded bus.
In 1948, Blue Bird founder Albert Luce saw a flat-front bus at an exhibition in Paris, mounted on a GMC chassis, no less. He brought one back, and built his own (above), the first All American. Blue Bird became a pioneer in the flat front bus in the East and Midwest. The West Coast already was pioneering the same approach, but more ambitiously with the legendary Crown and Gillig buses, with their mid-engine underfloor engines (Gillig CC here, Crown still to come).
Prior to the sixties or so, there really was a continental divide with trucks and buses. The conditions in the West created unique and innovative solutions than in the more conservative East with its restrictive laws on size, weight and other factors. But the Blue Bird was an innovator, at least in relative terms, for the East, although with its engine still mounted in the front under a big cover next to the driver, it was still pretty conventional. And diesel engines were still a long way off, unlike the smoking, bellowing Cummins in the big California Crowns (above).
Getting details on the chronology of the All American is a bit sketchy, but in 1952, Blue Bird built its first chassis for the front engined All American (rear engine version chassis were usually built by IH). And this 1957 marks the approximate beginning of a new body design, substantially squarer than before. It also marks the beginning of the All-American’s long run of quad headlights, except of course they weren’t legal (mostly) in 1957. I actually guessed this to be a ’57 for that reason, because it has the large headlight bezel that would house quads in 1958. And a friend of the owner confirmed that to me.
Here’s a (small) photo of the quad lights in a 1963 Blue Bird Wanderlodge. In a way, that forces us to start meandering in a direction away from school, since the Wanderlodge had a sole purpose in life. It was a pioneer too, in the upscale, high-quality end of the then nascent RV market. It went into production in 1966, and soon had a loyal following among celebrities like Johnny Cash and King Hussein. On second thought, it took a lot of hard work to buy a Wanderlodge, which was typically priced about the same as a typical mid-sized house. That’s not exactly really getting away from it all.
The owners of this home-brew wanderlodge have taken a different route. I don’t really know their story, except that this bus has been here in a very nice location in front of their friend’s house, just a block away from Skinner Butte Park and the Willamette River. A power cord runs from the house out to the bus, and in neighborhoods like this, no one’s going to complain, as long as someone doesn’t park in front of your house; or is obnoxious.
A quick blind shot into the driver’s door gives a small glimpse of life on the bus. Toilet paper, that great staple of modern life, dominates the view. And where do they actually use that paper?
The house this bus sits in front of is owned by bus aficionados too. You can just see the stern end of the famous Sail Bus in the driveway.
It makes occasional appearances in the annual Eugene Celebration parade. I’m getting off track again, but that just reminded me that there was another bus parked here where the Blue Bird now sits.
I took this shot a year and a half earlier here, and talked with the Sail Bus’ owner, here checking out his friend’s colorful (and yet conventional!) Chevy bus. Yes; these are rightly known as hippie buses; there’s no way to finesse around that terminology. But here’s the thing: these guys are just hot rodders of a different stripe. They were bragging about how powerful the modded 454 Chevy big block they had dropped into this bus; in between drags on a cigarette. No sanctimonious blabber about it being converted to run on bio-diesel. Hot rodding hippies, with their long-wheelbase big-block rides, trying to have a good time.
When I walked through here more recently, I was a bit surprised to see some remodeling going on. The Blue Bird has transformed into the Green Bird. But where has all that wonderful stainless-steel front end trim gone? Presumably, it will be back when the painting is complete.
I have reason to believe that this particular bus wasn’t actually a school bus, but some sort of over-the-road transport. The main reason that makes me think that is the forward-slanted surrounds on the side windows, which was an imitation of the legendary 1953 GMC PD-4104 Greyhound bus, and not typically, or ever seen on school buses. It’s a bit crude here, as the windows themselves are perfectly rectangular behind that surround, but one that gives this bus a bit of distinction from a mere school bus. And if I’d taken a closer look at the rear side door to confirm it was original (I think so), that would have sealed the deal, as school buses don’t have rear side doors, for obvious reasons.
On a dreary gray winter’s day, this color manages to pop out quite well. There’s a reason us folks in the North West go in for strong colors (you should see our kitchen). The question of course is how long will it be here, before its occupants get the itch or?
From the big Mexican straw hats stored in the two back windows, it looks like they’re ready for sun, should they decide to head South. To roll, or not to roll, that is the question.
Paul, you tease, where’s the Nailhead history?
FWIW I grew up in a rural Ohio “all Bluebird” district.
I’m glad you asked. After two nail-head powered CCs, it’s a must have. I’ve already started gathering materials. But it’ll gave to wait until next week; Monday or Tuesday. I’ve uncovered some wild stuff…
That what happens when you hang around hippie buses! 🙂
Can we get your persepective on all the goofy automatic transmissions from General Motors at some point? And how they catered to all of the different images each division wanted to portray for themselves? And whether the adaptation of the Turbo Hydramatic through the 2nd half of the 1960s was the beginning of the end of all GM cars feeling unique?
Especially, since I’m of the age group that only remembers Turbo Hydramatics and its 1980s 4 speed relatives, Each time I think of making a Corvair my daily driver I still can’t wrap my head around having as little as 80 (gross) horsepower and a 2 speed Automatic.
Yes, as long as it doesn’t become tooo technical. One can easily get lost in all those epicyclic gears.
AteUpWith Motor did a great two part history of the GM automatic transmissions. It would be hard to add to it without writing a book.
http://ateupwithmotor.com/technology/246-hydramatic-history-part-1.html
Paul, great bus photos.
I was just going to say the same thing: no need to replicate that excellent article, including Part 2, which covers the other GM automatics:
http://ateupwithmotor.com/technology/247-hydramatic-history-part-2.html
Fellow Ohioan, I too feel the pain of the Bluebird vain.
I grew up in western PA. And the big school bus name was Carpenter.
Love the images! These buses are fantastic. The green one is unique, but a little boring. The ‘cinco de mayo’ ones above it (I don’t know that is just what they make me think of) are really eye catching though!
No Bluebird buses in my school district (and I’m from Ohoho too); our chariots were mostly early 1960s Waynes. Very like that “Sailbus” was before being hacked into an aberration. With time, the buses became the squared-off later-generation Waynes…for some reason, the school boards in my area were partial to the Richmond, Indiana company.
I’ve always wanted one; just because. Be cool to make a camper out of…although in our era of $4/gallon gasohol, it wouldn’t be so affordable to just ramble around in. Or so kind to the ancient motor.
Of course being born in 1977 and graduating high school in 1995 I remember the change over from manual bus transmissions to automatic. We had a few drivers who were not very smooth with the stick shifts and I was glad to stop getting whiplash after the autos became popular.
I recall that in about 1960 when I was in high school, the IH bus that had transported kids from my segment of rural America (Northwest PA) was replaced by a GMC or Chevy bus with automatic transmission! That GM bus was so much peppier than the old IH that we all got home much quicker. The afternoon driver was such a hot rodder I am surprised he didn’t wrap it around a tree. My neighbor Chuck Johnson was the morning driver, and Chuck still just puffed his pipe and took his time.
don’t know why but i’m strangely attracted to hippie buses and rv’s… thanks, paul!
Great post! I’ve always been fond of old school buses, partially due to the obvious tie-ins (childhood memories) and partially because they’re so interesting to document.
I can identify body manufacturers back to the 1960s based on characteristics of their designs: Blue Bird buses typically had (and have) an ersatz wraparound windshield, an embossed arch on the roof cap, visors over the firewall turn signals (if equipped), and ridges over the side windows. Waynes had a very boxy profile. Wards had a “sagging” windshield (and I’m sure they were responsible for shrouding the green-and-teal Chevy here). Superiors had a Blue Bird-style windshield, but with tilted pillars next to the side window and door. Carpenters had curved stamping on the roof cap which straddled a peaked windshield until the mid-1970s, while Thomas bodies almost always had top-mounted wipers.
More to it than that. Waynes kept the 1940s rounded look until 1967…it just happened that my particular school got assigned one of the very-first squared-off Waynes. Delivered one afternoon (small school district) and our driver, learning she was assigned it, transferred us all off the old 1960 Wayne to the new one. Dang, she was like a little kid with a new toy.
Waynes had top-hinged wipers too, right up until the “Lifeguard” body (their last design) came about in 1975. Most buses of that era did…only Carpenter had cowl-hinged wipers in the 1960s; and only Thomas kept the top-hinged design into the 1980s
Blue Bird coaches were, contrary to the other makes, relatively static. The ones I remember were the first squared-off designs…that would have been the early 1960s. They kept the same basic body right up until the space-age designs used today.
How do I know all this? I was shopping for a used bus…didn’t buy but learned the distinctions…
The Blue Birds were all over the place when I was in the air force. I think the military must’ve had a contract with them. They were used as shuttle buses on Beale AFB and I rode many of them to and from town when I was there. There was one particular bus on base that was a mobile kitchen/diner – it was used on the flight line to feed the SP’s – security police – the air force version of military police, or MP’s. On the front of the bus, in the name window above the windshield, it read “Buckley’s Greasy Spoon”. I still smile when I think about that, as it was equipped quite uniquely – but effectively. You know, more often than not, things I post seem to have some connection with Educator Dan! By the way, Paul, do you have any photos of those buses with the solid, streamlined, windowless back ends? Can’t remember what brand they were, but I used to see a lot of them a long time ago.
Those were probably Flxbles (not a misspelling) Flxble was a bus-maker in Loudon, Ohio…made a lot of highway coaches before GM got into it, along with later Greyhound-created MCI. Also made the “Grumman Bus” that was the subject of so many lawsuits in the 1980s. Flxble was taken over by Grumman in 1978 and sold about ten years later; they went out of business in 1995.
Anyway…they were the first to use a rear-engine on a coach; they’d jam the Buick engine and all its hardware into that streamlined rear shell. I don’t recall if they pioneered the V-Drive layout or if GM did years later…
…but there’s your answer.
Like this; the Flxible Clipper. Yes, it also used the nailhead Buick. Used to be one in Eugene available for charters until a few years ago. I will find one eventually and do a CC. It was a “compact” bus, smaller and cheaper than the big GMC coaches. All time best bus ass.
Paul, that’s it! Those were really cool looking. Anything Art-Deco I’m in with. Man, just one more reason why I’m so happy I found TTAC and became a very small part of it, and now, the same with CC. Thanks so much! By the way, the Flxible buses did have a lot of problems in the 80’s with the Grumman bus, they were called “Darth Vader” buses due to the large blacked-out window areas. Those models tended to “sag in the middle”! I thought the look was modern.
A state trooper who lived in my hometown had one these, complete with the same paintjob, except that his was white/blue. He was going to make it into a motor home. He started the project all balls-of-fire, then it slowed down. Then it stopped. And the bus sat next to a radiator shop down the street from my parents’ house…and it sat…and it sat….
He also had a ’58 Chevy Bel Air, which he restored just as fast.
Yep, I spent 28 years in the Air Force and noticed Blue Birds at most bases – I assume they were the “lowest bidder” as most seemed to be fairly cheaply put together – they all seemed to “rattle” quite e bit.
All these models are new to me. I had to ride the city bus to school. At the time, they had Leyland Panthers. The fare was 5 cents each way. Eventually they were replaced with Volvo busses, and who knows what today.
When people talk of liking the panther platform, I think of the Leyland Panther.
I’m thinking the forward slanting window surrounds are an added work as you can see the little visor above each original split school bus style window ? Did someone want to hide the school bus look by simply riveting sheet metal with slanting window cut outs over the original ?
Yes
I think it came that way from the factory. My guess is that this bus was sold as a highway coach, not a school bus, and that Blue Bird put those slanted window surrounds over the square windows to distinguish it, and make it look less like a school bus and more like a real highway bus. All the serious coaches had angles windows then, and this was their expedient solution.
You meant GM 4104 didn’t you?
Yes I did. Fixed it. A post in that seminal highway bus is coming, hopefully soon.
was wondering about this older model of blue bird RE type school bus.
I think this one was an early 60’s.
I noticed it had mesh doors on back ,
I think that would have to be aircooled GM V-6 commercial type, or just to keep the engine cool back there.
as i always saw it had the GM logo on front
Id listen to it after i got off of it on the sidewalk.
I know it had an allison auto tranny click shift.
I always heard this raspy sound of the engine, and when it was Idling,it had this metallic sound to it like a ding ding.
it might have been a diesel inline, or V-6
and it wasn’t muffled that much either.
you could hear it good when it was going thru the gears.
I think I used to ride this bus. I can’t see the number, but I went to Howland schools from K – 12. It’s not air cooled, nor rear engine. These were all front-engine V8s with manual five-speed transmissions.
I do enjoy reading about these old buses. I am probably one of the few Americans of my age who never rode a bus to school. I was at the tail end of that era of the suburban neighborhood public school, and I walked there and back every day for most of my 12 years.
On rainy days, we kids would often wheedle a ride from one of our mothers after someone did a good enough job of “awwww, mommmmmmm, its rayyyyyy ninnnnng!” Then I got rides in a fine array of neighborhood cars, from a three on the tree Chevy II to a couple of GTOs. And one single sunny morning in a 1947 Lincoln V-12. But never in a big yellow bus.
You need to do a piece on the Crown bus. Built in Los Angeles, with a rounded body and high belt line, they were unique. Huge sturdy bumpers (also curved), and all the heavy gauge body panels were assembled with simple exposed rivets. No fancy trim or embellishments. They seemed a big cut above all the others in the school bus fleet, and the looong dual rear axle rigs were like the Union Pacific Big Boys of the road.
They went out of production years ago, but are still popular in the Southern California school bus fleets, which tells you something about their sturdiness and reliability. If I were to do a bus conversion, the Crown would be the only way to go for me.
Quite right. I missed a very nice one still in service at a school recently…
Aotearoa had dedicated school buses built on Bedford chassis all gone now I still see some in hippie mode travelling about where I live is a Mecca for bus people who follow the seasonal work trail and there are many parked about the place in fact there is a Gypsy fair on this weekend i might have to take the camera for a look.
My late father, from Mt. Pleasant Iowa, was always proud of the fact the Blue Bird buses were built in Mt. Pleasant. That plant was closed sometime around 2003 though. Blue Bird is owned by Cerberus these days according to wikipedia.
That Chevrolet bus is very strongly reminiscent of a 1960 counterpart that was in use as a tour bus on Oahu in 1977. That one didn’t have the top addition, just the crazy paint job, and a sticker on the dash that said “Hey, no laugh my car!”
In the early days of my work at the big shipbuilding place there was a bus entrepreneur in my part of the county who had a fleet of Flxible buses. I heard that he was personally responsible for the fact that no Buick straight 8 motor could be found in any wrecking yard in the county – he had to keep his old Flx’s going somehow.
Then through the magic of government subsidies the bus business became untenable for private operators, and the first government-owned fleets of buses were all old Fageols retired from city transit systems. I haven’t seen one of those now in what seems like half a century but probably is actually only 25 years or so.
Ironically I’m at the annual (Bluebird) Wanderlodge Owners Group meetup in Pine Mountain GA this weekend. There are about 120 Wanderlodges with build dates ranging from the 1970’s to 2008. Most are in great condition, like large show cars that you can very comfortably live in.
Wanderlodges are impressive pieces of design and construction that will probably never be built again in our lifetimes. Photos of the rally at the link below.
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18074
I worked as a bus driver for 10 years,I don’t find them as interesting as cars but a classic bus turns my head.I don’t know much about American buses but this one reminds me of the bus used to take prisoners to jail.
Nice shots and a good article. Our school buses were front-engined Blue Bird and Thomas buses built on an International or Ford chassis with gas engines. In my last few years of high school they started running a few diesel buses with “Test Diesel” proudly painted on the side. That was in the early ’80’s, and most of the school buses I see now are diesels.
Those Crowns last forever. I was up in Running Springs last week and noticed that the Rim of the World School District still uses them. These are steep and twisty mountain roads, mostly above 5000ft MSL. Those smoky diesels scream, a lovely sound I remember from riding to school on Crown buses in the 1960’s.
The Park Service used to run those Crowns up and down the twisty road to Hearst Castle all day long — not sure what they’re using now.
You have some cool neighbors Paul!
Remember the flat-front ‘Birds lined up in front of my school. The engines were in the back and can’t be sure, but I think they were gas, not diesel. On field trips, we took old #98. Talk about something that looked like a prisoner transport. It had seats for about 30 and looked liked a pick-up truck front end with a bus shell instead of a bed. When we moved north, the buses looked to me like an even stranger combination of a truck’s front end with a bus grafted onto the back. Guess it’s whatever you grew up with – seems to me that a proper school bus doesn’t have hood out front.
Funny, I’m just the opposite. No flat fronts in NC when I was a kid, and all Thomases. When I first saw a flat front I thought it was really odd and kind of a poor relation to a city bus.
I drove a seventeen-year-old ’57 Chevy as a high-schooler, which blows people’s minds, and the governor was broken so I got used to doing a bit of hooning in it which is why I got suspended for a couple of days – supervisor saw me come into the lot “on two wheels” – of course it was a least 3 LOL. THAT’S exactly why high-school kids shouldn’t drive school buses although most of my “colleagues” were very responsible.
Same for me in NC (Fayetteville) except there was one flat-front in the fleet that we called “snub nose.”
I have some memories of school buses back during the 60s. When I was a second grader, our school bus driver was cool, and let us take turns siting by his left side , operating the left side stop sign .He’d also sing songs with us. This was in a small International school bus. I don’t remember the coach builder name. Later I remember a Blue Bird bus like the one above. I thought they were cool at the time, because of the flat nose like a Greyhound bus. The later ones had a redesigned windshield with up to date wipers, which I called the “grass hoppers”, also like on a Greyhound bus. We had a long 1 hr. ride to school. So school buses were a big part of our lives,
I loved the flat nose school busses when I was growing up. Why did it change to the engine in the front? It’s not aerodynamic or safe for the busdriver to see anyone in front. Bring back the flat front busses!!!
The green BB is one year newer than mine. They share the same rear end but the 57 has the updated front.
Rear sheet metal common to both. My Bus was originally Ford Powered ( possibly a Y block or inline) but currently has an FE. Quite a challenge to find any info on this body style.
I own a ’59 Bird in need of a driver’s side windshield. I have contacted several outlets including Blue Bird Dealers and windshield manufacturers to no luck. Any information on resources for salvaged buses of this vintage would be helpful.
Thanks
there are glass makers in mexico that still produce glass for the windshields i am the owner of the 1957 green bus in the article above. when i bought it years ago the passenger side had been shot and the old boy had the piece of glass in the bus , he said he had to order it out of mexico that i dont know where- but you could look online and find the info im sure
I grew up in the Abington school district in Montgomery Co, PA (Between Philly and Willow Grove where the Naval air station used to be) We had a good number gas powered Ford F 600? chassis buses, some were still sticks in the 1970’s-mid 80’s I loved the sound of the automatic transmissions (I guess they would be an Allison?)
They bought 2 or 3 Carpenter rear engine units in 1980, they had a big square chrome fake grille on the front, kinda’ interesting looking!
We had a good dozen or so Blue Bird All Americans (FE) that were all gas powered, If i remember right they were 1973/74 models they had huge dual exhaust that came out through the rear bumper and man did they ever sound beautiful! Sounded like they had glass pack mufflers, I would always sit at the back just to hear that exhaust note, my best friend and I would often wait at the corner on our bikes for all of the buses to leave just to hear that rumble, anyone else remember those buses and the way they sounded? Anyone have video or sound clip?
Another funny memory to add was that the Hatboro PA YMCA had a 1960’s Superior rear engine bus (Gas powered) and the driver would yell at me for lifting the access door (At the end of the isle between the rear seat cushions) to see the engine etc, got kicked off for good when I dropped my metal lunch box down there. Gosh that was the summer of 1977, seems like last wk LOL.
Ahhh Blue Bird, the el cheapo bus people. I am a mechanic for a school district and have worked on ‘Birds, Carpenters, Gilligs, Internationals, and Crown Coaches. When I started we has several early ’70s Blue Bird All Americans. Transit style diesel powered. Two were cat one 1160 and the other 3208, two Cummins 504 and one with a Detroit 8.2 repower from a GMC V6. All of them were garbage in their own special way. To fit the Cats in the factory had to remove the top flange of the frame rail to clear the exhaust manifolds. This made for great fun on #6 as it has a propensity to fail the left side head gasket every so often. Poor drainage caused floor rot problems. Lousy wiring. Body held to the frame with cheesy clamps. Rattly everything. I was pleased to see them go but their replacements have their own set of dysfunction. Most of the last Carpenter transits had a fatal flaw in the roof welds that caused a recall for the now defunct manufacturer that the “repair” was to remove the bus from service and tough luck. IH bought Ward and slapped their name on for a less than stellar product. The Gillig Phantoms were ok, but always had leaky roofs even when new. This caused body rot after a few years in service. I did like the Detroit 6V92 power though, super reliable and they had properly sized brakes like the Crowns. As for the Crowns, there has not been a better school bus built. Ever. The early ones had Hall- Scott gas power and then one could get either Detroit 71 series or Cummins. Huge frames doubled up for the entire length and even tripled up in critical areas. Body built right on the frame, no flexi flyers here. Enormous brakes, quality wiring designed and installed correctly. Roofs that don’t leak even after 30 years of service. Proper drainage to prevent rot. More than adequate size cooling systems so on those days over the century mark you send the Crown up the mountain, nothing else will make it. We still have two in service and they are by far the most reliable and trouble free even at their advanced age.
Very good information and, frankly, the brand of school bus might be a solid indicator of how well a school district is funded and ran. It’s a shame Crown Coach went out of business and it looks like the higher cost to make a better bus is a big reason when the other, poorer quality (but cheaper) bus companies won out.
Of course, it might be a hard sell for a school board to justify paying a higher bid to get better buses. Still, parents might be wise to check out a school bus fleet prior to buying a home and starting a family in a specific area. A good question to a principal of a prospective school might be, “What brand of school bus do you use?”.
Maybe someone here can answer a question I’ve had for many years about Bluebird’s bodywork. The school district I grew up in only used Bluebird All Americans. The ’73-4-5 units had a parallelogram-shaped rearmost side window gasketted into the body, like this. The ’76-7-8(-9?) units had a modified rear roofline with a half-trapezoid rearmost side window gasketted into the body, like this. The ’81-up units had the ’76-type roofline but now with a rearmost side window just like all the rest of the side windows: openable (until the spring-loaded latches froze up), with an apparently-spurious little sheetmetal piece creating a shallow sideways vee at the trailing edge, like this.
From what I saw/see, Bluebird weren’t alone on this; fixed/gasketted rearmost side windows of various shape were also on Wayne, Carpenter, Thomas, Ward, Superior, and probably other-make buses as well, with the transition to openable ones starting in the mid-late ’60s (Superior) and seemingly complete by the very early 1980s. All I can guess is that it was a structure strength or body flex issue preventing the use of an openable rearmost side window, that was eventually solved somehow or other.
Anyone know for sure?
The non opening rear window probably has two origins, one that the odd shape would have made for an unstable and out of balance sliding sash window. It could be done, but why make a special frame for only 2 windows. A lot of School Districts bought on low bid so cost was everything. The other is that there may have been the thought of keeping the exhaust out somewhat by having fixed windows in the rear. Airflow in a moving bus with the windows open is from rear to front. I don’t know why but it is true, on a bus with an inward opening entrance door one could engage what was known as the freeway sweep. Door open, get up to speed and all the kid leavings got sucked forward and out.
Those are interesting ideas. I can understand your thinking on the odd-shape window, but that stopped being a concern when rear rooflines stopped being partial spheres and started being boxes. Again, the roofline of the ’76-’79ish Blue Bird w/fixed rearmost side glass is the same as the roofline of the ’80ish-up units with sash rearmost windows.
Don’t think I can get onside with the exhaust explanation, either. The sash rearmost window was introduced before any serious emission control efforts. The first Blue Birds with sash rear windows in my district were IH DT-466s (no “E”), and they threw giant clouds of thick black smoke from a standing start, every time. The gasoline-fired buses had no catalysts.
(I don’t disagree with you, I just wish I had a pat, “here’s how it was, for sure” answer. I’m a little OCD like that.)
“Freeway sweep” for the win! I remember noticing the weird rear-front airflow as a kid. As I recall, what first tipped me off was when I was on a late-’60s or early-’70s IH Loadstar 1800/Superior bus being used for summer camp transport. Most or all of the side windows, including the rearmost, were open. In traffic at about 50 or 55 mph, a Ford 9000 cement truck drew up alongside us on the right, most of the way back. His exhaust stack had a driver-side discharge, and it was just about dead even with about the second-to-rearmost side window. Its exhaust note seemed to ricochet around the inside of the bus. I was sitting near the front on the driver’s side, and I quickly noticed an increase in the cement truck’s exhaust noise meant a sooty, stinky diesel exhaust puff…slightly delayed versus the sound. That together with candy wrappers and frass tending to fly forward put it together in my mind.
Our public school in Arizona had a 57 Bluebird school bus like this in 71. Got to ride in it once on a field trip. Most of the Blue Birds I rode were newer 60s that looked much like this with the redesigned windshield and quad headlights. The newest had stacked headlights which design was used for many years.
I know that Blue Bird and Crown had options for two piece flat or one piece curved windshields. I have had to replace both, the best one was from a wild turkey that didn’t look both ways before crossing. The stacked headlights made it to at least 1988.
Crown went under as they were the main supplier of high end coaches while the Bird and other assemblages were built to a price point, sometimes less than half the price of the Crown. When Crown went under, Blue Bird and the competition pricing increased dramatically quite quickly and Gillig Bros. reentered the market with a schoolified transit bus called the Phantom to fill in. The result is not pleasant. IH transits with cracked and broken frames, mid 2000s IH bodies with roof leaks loads of rust even though they live in Southern CA and have never seen snow. The Gillig proprietary rear suspension had its share of issues also along with the obligatory roof leaks. There is a reason any district that has a Crown is doing whatever they can to hold on to them.
Another fascinating look into the parallel world of US school buses. In Israel in general we never had dedicated school buses with their own specific bodies and fittings (although recently the US pattern hazard warning lights have been introduced by law). Mostly as a child you either WALKED into school or used general transport. There were some yellow school buses but only ones used by rural councils (where walking to school was not an option, and no nearby regular routes existed) but they had standard coach bodies, not really different from what was used by the public bus co-ops. Later when I was living in the UK standard practice by local councils was to use one of the local bus operators – again there was no difference between the bus they used and a “regular” one, and often they used one of their more elderly buses! In Austria children simply use public transport, not always ideal.
US school buses do find their way here (the EU) and I even know of one private Vienna school who used an International to ferry children to school but you are more likely to see them as curiosities or – like the below – used as a mobile hostel.
Loving the info here ~ keep it coming .
-Nate
I’m curious about the “All-American” name. Were other buses only part-American? I can’t imagine any other country actually naming their products “All-British”, “All-German” or whatever. Using the phrase in advertising, yes, for sure, but not as the product name.
As there seem to be some school bus experts here, I’ve got a question.
We’ve all seen the double signal lights on the top front and rear of school buses.
I had a dream last year where a school bus had a single signal light centered on the top front. I’ve googled and been unable to turn up a pic of anything like that.
Was that ever a thing?
Thanks
I’ve often wondered how economical it was to travel in one of these converted buses. What kind of fuel economy do these things typically get? When travelling today I figure that the biggest expense is lodging, generally a hundred dollars a night at a nice motel. Higher rates during holiday periods. Still, you might have to pay for a campsite and driving that through traffic would have to be a nightmare. It seems that it would be so much more expensive than travelling by conventional motor home. I would like to hear from any our readers who have experience with this lifestyle.
At Arizona State University around 1970 we took occasional field trips in Bluebird flat fronts, don’t know the vintage. They had Ford engines and were dog slow. The school also had a Chevrolet bus from 1960-1962 that was an absolute hot rod by comparison.
In my grade school days, almost all buses here were Superiors with Chev or GMC chassis, regardless of which school district. All had 4 or 5 speed manuals, usually driven by wizened older guys who were wizards with shifting.
I love old busses. I’ve got a ’58 International R-190 48 passenger former school bus with a Wayne body. It’s pretty rough but it’s complete and unmolested from the ravages of vagabond hippies. It’s a real shame what so many of those dang absent minded hippies did to so many great old buses.
If anyone wants one like the Green one or more like the wander lodge, I have one for sale cheap. It runs and has newer tires. Needs TLC but it’s an ok bus to restore.
Thomas Charles, more info needed, where the bus is located? When was the last time you moved etc…
do you still have it to sell