After all, Dodge is bringing back the Dart, which old folks remember as a POS. Those were Michael Karesh’s thoughts at TTAC on Dodge’s decision to revive the the Dart name for its attractive new compact. I have a lot of respect for Michael, and don’t want this at all to be some sort of pissing match with him, but I was more than a wee bit surprised to read that. If ever a car developed a reputation for being a stalwart appliance during a time when all-too many American cars were going in the crapper, the Dart, and its slightly shorter stablemate Valiant were it. POS?
My Dad certainly wouldn’t agree with that label. Me neither. And I guess we both qualify as old folks.
He drove a ’68 baby-shit brown stripper two-door sedan for almost ten years, on his commute from Towson to Johns Hopkins hospital (what else would a neurologist drive?). His had the 170 inch six and three-on-the-three, manual steering and manual everything else. The only upgrade was the rear seat upholstery: it was the nice pleated vinyl from a Dart 270, unlike the thin, flat front upholstery. I guess that’s all that was handy on the assembly line that day. Can you imagine that happening nowadays? Two different upholstery treatments in the same car?
Anyway, it served him flawlessly, and still ran like a top when he traded it in. It was actually pretty fun to drive, except for two flaws: obviously, the steering was too slow, but at least it wasn’t numb like the Chrysler one-finger power-steering of the times. And it desperately needed a four-speed stick. The 115 hp 170 six was a surprisingly strong runner, and revved much more happily than might be expected. But the hole between second and third was way too big, especially if one was really pushing it in the hilly curvaceous roads of Northern Baltimore County.
The Dart was remarkably neutral in its handling, unlike almost any other Detroit car of the times. Nothing like a stripper with the least amount of weight on the front wheels to accentuate the generally good handling qualities of the MoPar A-Bodies, despite the tiny 13″ tires. At least they all howled in protest together, instead of the fronts threatening to pop off the rims in typical Detroit understeer fashion.
I winced when my Dad bought it, but I learned to respect and appreciate its ways: the most tossable American plain-Jane car of its times, not to mention the most rugged and reliable.
I used to recommend these cars as cheap used wheels for friends, and I helped one, a single mom, buy a white one just like this one for a few hundred bucks. I dubbed it “The Kelvinator”, and it went on to live up to its namesake’s reputation as a reliable appliance box, if not a (literally) cool one, given that it lacked AC. She drove it for some ten years too.
So how about you “old folks”; what say you about the Dart?
Given that I can remember the 1970s Darts when they were brand-new, I guess that makes me an official “old folk.” Oh, boy…
I, too, was surprised by Mr. Karesh’s comment. The Dart was most definitely NOT regarded as a POS in the day. It was respected for its very tough drivetrains, particularly the Slant Six connected to the Torqueflight.
I remember that people sought out Valiants and Darts as used cars during the 1970s because they had such a good reputation for reliability. If there was a problem with the Chrysler compacts, it was that the body and interior disintegrated long before the drivetrain quit.
A big reason Chrysler was in trouble by the late 1970s was that many satisfied Dart and Valiant owners traded for an Aspen or a Volare, and were shocked to discover those cars WERE a POS.
I’d agree with that assessment. There were several Darts and Valiants across my extended family, only thing negative I remember is the rust monster just loved them.
The Aspen/Volare, however was a POS. Only the GM FWD X-cars did a better job of selling America on the virtues of (at that time) superior Japanese compacts.
What I don’t understand, is…if the Aspen/Volare were (correct me if I’m wrong) nothing more than reskinned Darts, what made them so bad? I mean, the chassis/powertrain on those cars was nothing new, was it?
The Aspen/Volare was substantially different from the 1967-76 A body Dart. First, the entire unibody was new. Also, the front suspension was completely different. Instead of the traditional longitudinal torsion bars, the Volaspen used a new torsion bar design with the bars mounted transversely. The new design had some issues that were not resolved for several years.
You are correct that the engine/transmission/differential was largely carried over (although this was about the time that the Lean Burn system came out across the whole Chrysler line) but pretty much everything else was new.
One of the problems was that much of the engineering work was carried out during the 1974-75 recession, when Chrysler was in horrible financial shape. I have read that much of the engineering staff was on layoff during this time, so deveopment was very under-staffed in a company that was a real mess by that time. Although the old A body was certainly susceptible to rust, the Volare/Aspen took body rust to a whole new level until some changes were made after the first couple of years. Also, Chrysler somehow figured out how to take a Unibody and make if shudder over bad roads like a BOF car. I have driven a lot of Chrysler unibodies, but those engineered in the 1970s (like the Volare and the 74-78 C body sedans) had nowhere near the rigidity of the earlier cars.
Thanks for the info JP, interesting.
Terrible choice for the name of the new Dodge. The target demographic would have responded to neon, Daytona or Stratus. the Dart name will appeal to blue hairs only.
The Neon and Stratus nameplates have mostly negative reputations, while the Dart nameplate probably isn’t even remembered by most people under the age of 35 (born in 1977, or one year after the Dart was discontinued).
While we respected the Dart for its reliability, we did consider it to be a “grandma’s car” in the 1970s.
I doubt that most young people remember the nameplate, let alone that image.
They shoulda named it Dodge Aries by Alfa Romeo
I think Dart is a great choice. Old American cars are cool with the young demographic, and any negative connotations (if there are any) are not carried forward. Ford should bring back “Falcon”.
I agree – Ford should have called the Fusion the Falcon, and used either the Fairlane or Country Squire nameplate for the Flex.
Fords problem is the Falcon still lives they could always do a left hook version and sell it in the US but so fer exports beyond the RHD pacific are banned
Not really a problem as there is a Fusion in Europe that is more of a tall-looking Fiesta, nothing in common with the US Fusion.
Exports to the US, that won’t happen, we can’t have that pesky Australian division importing their better quality, better looking, better performing product and showing up the parent company now can we 🙂
When Flex was a concept car they called it Fairlane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fairlane_(Americas)#2005_concept
Should’ve kept the name I agree.
My FIL is a Ford salesman. We like to razz him about Fords F’n Fixation with the letter F. When our regular car broke and we got a loaner from the dealer we could email him:
“It’s a great day for the letter F Dad, we’ve got a Focus F*ckup and a Fairly Farckled Fusion.
Back to the Dart, I don’t know how old MK is but I’ve got some grey up top so I might qualify as ann old folk. Darts were bulletproof, definately not a POS especially for the times. Iaccoca hisself said they should have never stopped making them.
I’m 30 and I have somehow managed to associate a pretty positive image to the Dart. How, I no longer clearly recall, but it might have something to do with a classmate in high school driving one that was infinitely cooler than the Hyundai that miraculously served me for years. On the other hand, I’m not especially interested in buying brand new cars, so I’m not exactly the marketing target Dodge is aiming for.
LOL, what do you mean bring it back, it never went away, I drive a 2010 model 🙂
I disagree with Stephen saying Dart is a “bad” name for the newest Dodge for ’13. “Dart” will appeal to Chrysler’s heritage of an exceptionally good car. And, with a name like “Dart”, the new car has a reputation to live up to, so it’d better be good! It’ll hold Chrysler’s feet to the fire. Dart is a GOOD name!
I had a 1971 Plymouth Scamp. It rode on 14 inch wheels. Skinny ones, but 14s.
In ’68, it was 6.50x13s for Darts with the 170 engine; 7.00x13s with the 225 and 318, and what looks to be E70x14s for the GTS. GM wasn’t the only one being stingy with rubber 🙂
My mother had a friend who bought new a 69 Valiant 100 2 door sedan. Absolute strippo except for AM radio, backup lights and the 225 slant six over the 198 (I think that the 170 may have been gone by 69). In that ubiquitous Chrysler medium green with tan interior (matching seat cushions, even). She kept it, eventually got married, and they continued to drive it until well into the 80s, when northern Indiana rust got to one of the torsion bar mounts.
That was a great, great car. During the few years before I got my license, I developed a thing for that car. To this day I still long for a Valiant or Dart strippo.
I think the 14 inch wheels came with the disc brake option. Paul, the reason you may have found the 170ci six adequate with a manual trans is that it was a rare short-stroke, unlike typical slow-turning long-stroke domestic sixes.
I should do a story on the slant sixes sometime. Actually, both Ford and Chevy sixes were oversquare too, but the 170 was known to breathe substantially better. The legendary four-barrel 170 Hyperpack was a terror, and totally dominated the brief compact NASCAR series. The 170 was known to be able to generate almost as much hp as the 225 even hopped-up, because it revved so much higher.
The 225, which was very much undersquare, had a very healthy torque band, which made it a perfect partner with the automatic.
My Dart Swinger had a 225-2bbl and Torqueflight and was exceptionally pleasant to drive. Even the drum brakes all around were not an issue (and it was a 1973!) as the speeds we drove were not very high. It really was a Cruisemobile, which is what we called it.
Step Mom had a ’71 Scamp – it too on 14″ not 13″. Inchers. E78x14. Hers was a 318. Mighty easy to roast the right rear E78x14″; left rear, less so. Fast car – definite sleeper. Can’t imagine what a Dart 340 or Duster 340/360 might have been like.
Ditto. About 1980 or so, my car mentor Howard bought a used 73 Duster with a 318 and a 3 on the floor. His son was my college roommate, and we ended up with the car at college for awhile. That thing was FAST. Like you, I could never imagine what a 340 would do if the 318 felt like it did. Howard eventually discovered that it had a batch of defective grease fittings in the ball joints that were not drilled all the way through, and he sold it before he had to replace the ball joints that were still on their factory lube.
Car pictured to me is a VE Valiant circa 68 we only got the 225 slant or 318 V8 usually in VIP trim they were bloody good cars, they rust and the steering idler gets sloppy but they drove ok. These days a hemi 6 transplant gives em a new lease on life but generally a good car. Antipodean cars ran 14 inch wheels but otherwise same as US models
I don’t have to struggle to remember these. I ran a standard VE sedan for a while in the mid 90s, yep it had rust and needed valve guides. All of which were fixed in time for a newly licenced brother to take it to his first country teaching post and promptly run it off an icy road going end over end. Paramedics told him he shouldn’t have survived, had only bumps and glass injuries. The Val was replaced by a VE VIP which had had the 273 swapped out for a 318, meanwhile I’d picked up two owner VG VIP V8 (with std A/C!) rails all needed plating adjacent to the steering boxes, spent years and loads of cash getting it right, made 3K from it when I took on a 450 SEL 6.9 in 2001. There’s a whole other story of naivety, relevant only for events since which has seen the acquistion of a 1968 W108 280 S as the daily driver. Base specification with little that can go wrong, 4 speed with only tinted glass specified by buyer. Very Dart/Valiant like in concept if not execution.
I will join the consensus: The Dart was definitely not a piece of crap. It was plain, it was out of style, and it was subject to Chrysler’s notoriously uneven assembly quality (say, for instance, two different styles of seat cushions?) but it would out work and outlast anything else made, certainly in its price class.
I had a 71 Plymouth Scamp (the hardtop on the Dart 111 inch wb) and it was still going strong in the 1980s with approaching 150K in an era where anything north of 100K was unusual.
Geeber is correct – rust was the achilles heel. Otherwise, these were tough, tough old cars. Probably the last Dodge that could truthfully use the word “Dependability”.
Isn’t every domestic car ever made a POS on TTAC?
Last week I deleted TTAC from my bookmarks after the final installment of the Impala Hell project. I would have done it sooner but wanted to finish the story. I just got tired of the idiots injecting politics into a car blog. Democrats this, Republicans that. Obama this, Boehner that. They ruined it for me.
You could always do what I do: not read or at least ignore the comments.
Other than the powertrain these were a POS, I saw way to many head to the wrecking yard when the upper control arm mounts tore loose. In general the entire front suspension was crappy and was no where near as durable as the Nova or Falcon/Maverick, pre introduction of the Fairlane capacity suspension components Falcons excluded. None the less I recommended them for someone looking for a $200 car that would keep running as an around town beater and to keep throwing used tires at the front of them.
Mate of mine ran a 318 VE ViP Valiant for eight years towing a caravan all over Aussie as an itinerant with few problems but he used to service and maintain it no problems untill it got too rusted. These things cope well with the bad roads in Aussie( where Falcons disintegrated) in the same spec as US versions just with larger wheels they do eat tyres faster than Holdens but not faster than Falcons which are difficult to keep aligned.
I think the Dart and Valiant were the Cutlass Ciera of the ’60s and ’70s. Maybe a bit plain, and somewhat backward technology-wise toward the end of their run, but reliable, comfortable, honest cars. As previously mentioned, it was the Aspen and Volare that gave Chrysler the black eye. And I think many people are seeing hot-rodded Darts at cruise nights and car shows these days, not to mention the ’67-’69 Dart GTS and 340 Swingers. I agree that Dart is a great name for the new 2013 compact.
I travel daily in various parts of Portland, Oregon, and I can tell you that far and away the most common older car around here is the Dodge Dart. They’re either driven by 20-30 somethings (who probably think that 60s compact cars are kind of cool) or by older folks who probably bought them new (and see no reason to replace them). This couldn’t happen if the cars weren’t sturdy and reliable.
I almost never see Falcons, Novas, Chevy IIs, Comets, etc. Draw your own conclusions.
Essentially the same here: dozens of A-Bodies, along with a smattering of old Falcons.
A distant second here would be various Ramblers. I’ve even seen a few Studebaker Larks.
At least those are quirky enough to have some entertainment value.
On the contrary, here in northwest Arkansas the A-body doesn’t seem to rear its head too much. One the other hand I daily receieve a healthy dose of Maverick/Falcons. Quite a few Novas as well.
In response to the main topic, my father always talked poorly of the Dart/Val growing up. Whenever he would point them out he would reminisce about how all his non-stylish friends in college had them. Always noted that ‘”hey sure ran forever though.”
Before there was Toyota, there was Valiant and Dart.
Anybody looking for a car that would run forever, bought Valiants and Darts.
(Later, after experiencing Aspen and Volare, they bought Toyotas).
I made a small business out of these. In those days milestones like ten years and 100,000 miles brought dark visions of imminent collapse to Mr. and Mrs. public, especially in suburbia. Over the years I bought about 50 of these, mostly 10 year old ones, with about 100K on them. Of course, they were good for another 100k and I made a lot of friends tuning, cleaning, and reselling them.
One story. In 1974 I bought a ’64 Valiant V100, 4 door, stick, with about 90K in Tupelo MS. Paid 100 or 200. Drove it home to Vermont (it needed a new starter enroute. Fortunately I was parked across the street from a parts store when this happened). Drove it for several years and then sold it for 400 or 500. The fellow who bought it drove it back and forth across the country several times, painted it, and sold it for $1000.
It may still be going.
Another time I bought a ’66 Signet hardtop with 88k for 200 from a CBS cameraman who told me it was his son’s car, so embarrassed was he to admit that it was actually his own. (It was heavily battered up in one rear quarter). I fixed it up, painted it, reupholstered the front seat, owned it for years, even driving it to Guatemala (from Vermont) and back. That one fetched $1800 when it was time to sell. It still looked and drove like a new one.
Just like these old Valiants, I could go on forever with stories like these.
“Before there was Toyota, there was Valiant and Dart” +1
And I know you weren’t the only one doing what you did, although you might have been a bit more prolific than average. My brother did the same thing for some years with W123 Benzes.
“Before there was Toyota, there was Valiant and Dart” +another 1.
I had this to say on a TTAC Dart piece a while back:
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“The biggest issue I have with the car out of the gate is just that, it’s called a Dart. The Dart name is still the butt of poor quality and reliability jokes on Car Talk.”
I disagree – long before Toyota and Honda figured out how to build reliable cars, the Dart was the gold standard in durability. The longevity of the slant six / torqueflite used in the Dart is legendary, there is a slant six powered ex Montreal taxi with 2,609,698 km (1,621,591 miles). http://www.allpar.com/old/high-miles/vaillancourt.php
Refinement and build quality of the original Darts would not be up to modern standards, but then a 1963 Toyopet wouldn’t look very good to modern eyes either.
The Neon had many positive attributes, but the name has been tainted by problematic head gaskets and cheap plastic parts. The Dart name harkens back to a time when Mopar was known for engineering prowess and powertrain quality, and fits in well with the “we’ve done good things in the past, we can do them again” theme of much of their recent advertising.
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original post at: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/01/detroit-preview-2013-dodge-dart-breaks-cover/#comment-1830296
I learned to drive on a ’74 Valiant with 318 and Torqueflite back in the late ’70s. It was still running just fine when my parents replaced it with its modern equivalent, a Corolla, circa 2002.
My first car was a ’66 Canadian spec Valiant V-200 (Same as US model Dart) with 225 Slant Six and Torqueflite that was a hand me down from my parents who had replaced it with the ’74. It gave me well over 10 years of reliable service despite being subjected to all kinds of teenage stupidity. It was certainly less trouble than my current Subaru Legacy in the time I owned it. The ’66 was still running fine when I sold it in the early ’90s to a fellow who wanted a reliable car for a long commute. The only reason I got rid of it was I had four cars at the time, and wasn’t driving the Valiant much anymore.
I have been watching the Mopar turnaround with interest, and wish them the best – partly out of nostalgia for the sorts of cars they stopped building 40 years ago, and partly out of rooting for the underdog. It’s been a long time since I’ve owned, or seriously considered owning, a Mopar product and I still don’t know if I trust their quality. I’ve driven enough rental cars to know how poor many of their recent offerings have been. If the new Dart turns out to be halfway reliable and well screwed together after a couple of years, I could see considering one as an economical daily driver. Make mine a wagon, with manual transmission…
One of the best cars Ma Mopar has ever made. They got incredible gas mileage, with the Slant Six. I would regularly get 25 on the highway in my 70 Valiant /6 torqueflite. It would also light up the right rear tire on demand. This was in the early 90s when the Valiant had 100+ on the clock. Even without a front sway bar it would handle very predictably.
If they made the Volare/Aspen as durable as the Dart things would have been very different at Chrysler in the 80’s.
The ’74 Feather Duster would get 34 mpg at 55 mph if you had a stick. I read that last week.
Yeah, the Slant Six was fairly easy on gas for the time period. My father had a dark green 1973 Duster (1973-1979) with the 225 and would see 25 on the highway often. It lacked a cat converter so it would run well on either leaded or unleaded gas (we used either – whichever was cheaper). It got killed by a teenage girl who ran a red light in slow-motion in ’79. She went out into the intersection, stopped, my father moved to avoid her (too close), then she moved out further and he took off her engine. Replaced it with an 8 cyl ’73 Duster for a bit (ate gas like nothing else), and got an Aires in ’81. Had the Aries for 14 years and over 150,000 miles.
Agreed about the Aspen/Volare, but as was admitted, they were rushed out to market too fast.
I’m looking for a cheap and slightly unusual collector car right now, and the Dart is on my short list. A GT with 273 and 4-speed is too rare. The last one I saw was a turquoise ’65 GT with 225/6, floor shifted Torqueflite and disc brake conversion. Over-assisted power steering is the main complaint. Darts or Valiants with the 170 and/or 3 on the tree dont seem to exist, at least here in So Cal.
Me? I’d take the ’64 Corvair convertible in a heartbeat, especially with the four speed. A ’64 ‘Vair is just about at the top of my list for a toy car. How much? You take the Dart!! 🙂
Valiants and Darts were great cars, I learned to drive on the family 65 Valiant V200(Canadian version) Slant Six and Auto trans. Reliable,good gas mileage for the times from what I remember my Dad saying.
Regarding the 2 different types of upholstery…I worked at Budget-Rent-A-Car in 1973-74 and we took delivery of a brand new 74 Chevy Nova 4 door that was a base model on one side and a Custom model on the other complete with chrome window & door trim and a “Nova Custom” badge on one side, just “Nova” on the other! I don’t remember the interior though.
When I was in college the Dart/Valiant siblings were known as THE car to have if you wanted rock bottom priced unbreakable wheels. My own was a 1975 Dart Swinger, that I received in exchange for painting a fence (it was a big fence though) back in 1989. Bell Telephone green with matching vinyl top and green vinyl interior. First thing I did was to buy a Lear Jet cassette with built-in graphic equalizer (a must have feature for the young lad on the make) and some secondhand bias ply tires, for which I paid $25 including the mounting and balancing. Admittedly they weren’t great tires, but the others were so worn they looked like drag slicks. Anyways, drove it until I had so many speeding tickets the insurance wouldn’t cover me on a V8 car. Traded it straight up for a ’78 Volare that I drove until rust finally did away with it. Never had any issue with either of them, and my good experiences led me to purchase a two year old Plymouth Reliant, which subsequently soured me on Chrysler products since…
I saw and shot a 64 AP5 Valiant sedan Id take in a heartbeat last week
According to my personal memory there was a Dodge Dart before the downsized dodge dart y’all are talking about. Built on a plymouth frame and ran for two years before they downsized it in 1963. It ate a bunch of plymouth sales so maybe not a good decision.
Obviously I do not know what Karesh was talking about but I wasn’t too pleased with the early specimen that I drove. I thought the dart/valient girls were just as tough and long lasting as you are all saying. Was a chevy man though until I discovered Datsun. Never owned a dart. Don’t expect I ever will.
I am with the commenter above who does not like political commentary with his car lore. I find it more with the commenters than with the authors. This country is way too divided and not going to get any better without a major recognizable threat from outside our borders. Personally, I prefer this polarization to the war it would take to fix it. I had mine and it’s ok with me if it skips a generation.
My Grandmother’s second husband had a Valiant (but before she knew him) it was the only thing he could afford after a really nasty divorce from the gold digger he was married to prior to my grandmother. The car was reliable basic transportation for a man kind of down on his luck. Sure the Valiant didn’t inspire passion, but it was a good honest car. As soon as he could he traded it for a barge of a Thunderbird (late 70s model, black with a bordello red interior) that proved to be much less reliable than the Valiant.
I don’t remember anyone talking about the Dart as a POS either, and I hang out with some old-old timers.
It’s a great name for the new car and a good way to forget about Caliber. Now if they’d only call the SRT version of the new Dart a Demon.. Then i’ll buy one.
(By the way.. That looks like a cool little Tavern in the first pic!)
I may be the only Mopar guy ever to own as many A-body cars as I have without any of them being a slant six. I’ve had a 1969 Valiant Signet 2-door that was a factory 318 4-speed; a 1965 Valiant Signet 2-door hardtop that was factory ordered with every driveline option to make it essentially a Formula S car, plus 4-speed, power steering, power brakes, and a vinyl top; a 1976 Dart Pursuit sedan with every driveline and suspension option available; a 1967 383 Barracuda fastback; a new 1965 Barracuda; and even the plain little 1965 Dart 270 2-door sedan that I owned for a while was a 318 car.
The ’65 and ’67 Barracudas were the only ones I owned that didn’t leak water through the wiper pivot holes, probably only because they were sold before they got more than four years old. I replaced a heater core on the ’67 Barracuda, and two on the ’69 Valiant. Other than that none of them seemed to have any problems that I’d class as abnormal. None of them had any body rust except for a hole in the floor behind the gas pedal on the ex-cop car, which I “fixed” by inserting an old license plate under the floormat. That speaks well for the climate here in the Pacific northwest, I guess.
When I sold the 1969 Valiant, I swore that was the last A-body Mopar I’d buy. So far that’s been the case, but I still see one now and then that interests me. It should be obvious that I don’t agree with the estimation of these cars as POS’s.
The Dart/Valiant twins were some of the best American cars of that time period. Nothing fancy but reliable to a fault and pretty economical as well. My personal experience was with a new ’68 Dart 2Dr sedan, 225 six with Torqueflite, PS and an AM radio. My stepfather chose that car as his demo from Wheaton Dodge and got 25-27 MPG on a regular basis. Later, I worked on several Darts and Valiants, all with the slant six. Basic maintenance only and probably would have run forever if the tinworm had not intervened. The new Dart will appeal to some of us oldsters for the nostalgia but will also appeal to the younger folks as well because it it looks pretty darn good and is manufactured here in the USA, Fiat involvement or not.
Why did your father drive a Dart?
Doing a search on what do neurologists make, I came up with this:
“PayScale.com reports that the national average annual earnings for neurologists (as of November 2010) was between $123,174 and $223,510. Neurosurgeon earnings ranged from $167,427 to $447,940. Salaries tend to be lower in rural areas.
The highest average neurologist salary among metropolitan areas was in San Jose, California, with an annual average salary of $214,903, followed by Seattle, Washington, with $198,879.”
I would have expected a Buick or Caddy. Especially if going to J.H. everyday.
You’d have to ask him that. I don’t know exactly what he made, but as a faculty professor at JH, he made a lot less than he could have in private practice. He’s always been very thrifty, and not into having to symbols of prestige, or social standing. A fair amount of that rubbed off on me.
He eventually traded in the Dart on a 4 cyl Zephyr, but it had A/C, a major concession to comfort in Baltimore summers. I’m going to do an automotive obit on him when he dies, which inevitably will be fairly soon.
I remember driving a 4 banger Zephyr as my driver’s ed car. What a slug! I can only imagine it with a/c going!
His had a four (or five ?) speed stick. It reminded me a lot of a Volvo 240, which was not exactly zippy either. It drove fairly decently, certainly not fast, but handled reasonably well for what it was.
My one brother had a 1978 Zephyr ESS. It was the ‘sporty’ Zephyr, before the Z-7 was released. It came with the Pinto motor with a 4 speed trans, but it had some weird mandatory option like power brakes or power steering, but not both.
It was one of the few times he ever consulted me before buying a car, but the ESS package was not my suggestion (I should note that I’m ten years younger than my brother, I was all of 15 back then). I would have suggested a Mercury Capri, but those were still pretty pricey back then, due to exchange rates.
The car had the typical malaise era issues with carburetors and ignitions, but it was not a bad car when it ran well. He and I took it to the East Coast on several trips, and like you say, not a fast car, but a decent handler and pretty good on fuel.
It was very much like an American Volvo, it’s funny how it may have presaged the eventual purchase of Volvo by Ford.
Sounds like a very practical man.
I’m not sure though that I would have bought a car with different upholstery (unless the dealer dropped the price a bit). It would always leave me wondering if they let something so obvious escape the plant, what about the stuff you can’t see?
My base model 1980 Toyota Tercel had front seat vinyl stampings that did not match the plain, vertical pleat/stitching in the rear seat. And this is the almighty Toyota! This car ate it’s CV joints (not sold separately from the axles) slightly south of 50K. A $400.00 job – in 1982!
Son of Dart – fast forward to 1989 in Mazatlan; mid 80’s Diplomat (in Mexico then, still called Dart) – riding in a cab, slant six and three-on-the-tree. Saw on Mexican television in Jan of ’89 a commercial for the ’89 Dart, which was the ’83-’87 Dodge 600. Turbo four Darts very popular in Mexico then.
The only “bad” thing about that Valiant is the color. Green-anything is automatically considered a pile of garbage, regardless if it is or not.
The “bullseye” side marker lights earn points, green car or not. Sad they turned into rectangles for the 1969 models – some gov’t regulation that the round ones weren’t bright enough.
When I was a little kid in the late 60’s, my parents redecorated the kitchen and replaced all of the white appliances with new, hip “avocado” green ones. My father bought an avocado green Mercury Montego about that same time, too. It was a real popular color there for a while.
Then, in the mid 70’s, they re-did the kitchen again, going back to white appliances.
Hmmm…
@geozinger:
Yes, green was a very popular color. I gravitated between coppertone and harvest gold if I had my “druthers”! It’s been almond/bisque for years to the present.
What I did do was recover my parent’s white steel cabinets with wood-grain vinyl contact paper in 1965 after I saw how good a friend’s parents’ kitchen looked! They looked good for several years until I restored them to their original glory eleven years later in white.
Why do I mention that? Wood-grain contact paper was so popular at the time that I used some on dad’s 1960 Impala sports sedan! His car was an odd color scheme – white with an off-white jet stripe on the side and tri-toned brown/tan interior. A nice looking combination. I “walnut-paneled” the jet stripe between the chrome strips! It looked rather attractive and got positive reactions from everyone that saw it. I guess I did a fairly good job. How did dad feel? He liked it, too.
There you go! Memories…
Oh man, I forgot about contact paper! I think my folks did the same thing to the shelving in our old kitchen, to dress it up a little.
I never thought about using it on a car, though. That would have added some unusual flair to some of the older models as they wore on.
I still think it would be fun to fix all of the rust on my car and have it wrapped, like some of the city buses are now. Not with advertising, but some graphics or some other ideas I’m cooking up in my head.
But then I go back to my idea about buying some generic commuter box in white, and then painting it with temperas or acrylics and hosing off the artwork when I get bored with it. This would be a lot cheaper, for sure.
Oh, man, you just hit a nerve! When in college after my four years in the USAF, a guy in our art class “paved” his old VW beetle! Genuine tar-and-yellow gravel! I think somewhere the car was some sort of red underneath.
It looked hideous, but it garnered attention and you just had to laugh your head off! How that thing could get out of its own way with all the extra weight was beyond me.
Somewhere in my area is a mid 90s Dodge van that is carpeted with black grass carpet. I have got to photograph it some time.
I had a neighbor once who bought an old mid 70s Suburban. A prior owner had given it the contact-paper treatment in the mid-body area between the trim strips. Sort of a cork-like look if I recall correctly. It did not weather well.
Continuing with the off-topic discussion, in the early(?) 60’s (can’t remember, but maybe 1964) my parents bought a yellow refridgerator, which my mother tired of after a few years, so she used contact paper to change the colour, which eventually led to the entire kitchen getting the contact paper treatment every few years. We had a polka dot fridge, a black, white and yellow striped fridge, a flower covered fridge, and a few other combinations. She quickly learned that the self-cleaning feature on the oven couldn’t be used with contact paper applique applied!
My father surprised us one day in 1983 by buying a base model ugly tan 1969 Dart after the family owned nothing but Saabs for the previous 12 years. It was a 2 door Slant Six 225 with auto on the column and he paid $300 for it from a co-worker, it turned out to be the first car I got to drive alone, and so began my love affair with Darts.
He followed that with another ’69, this one a nice green GT but also with Slant Six and auto, that was a sharp looking car to drive in 1983-84, and I told him to sell it to me when I came home from college that spring, but alas he traded it on a 1981 Plymouth Champ before I could get my hands on the Dart GT.
Heartbroken , I had to find my own Dart which turned out to be a ’75 blue Swinger with white vinyl top, pretty rusty but after some body work, I drove it for 3 years and recall getting 23 mpg on highway runs. Yes the 225 with the catalyst removed had enough torque to smoke the tires and had that nice vintage slant six sound that I doubt the new Dart will have.
In 1993 I bought a 1969 Dart GT (picture attached) with 318 which was a sharp car, but the tinworm had already taken a toll so I decided to part with it.
Someday I hope to find another 67-69 range 2 door Dart, but I have to admit the new one looks nice too, and I don’t think it hurt to use a name that brings back memories, the top model should definitely be GTS or Demon or Swinger.
“Before there was Toyota, there was Valiant and Dart.”
The All-American Six: 110 inch wheelbase, inline six, three-on-the-tree, solid rear axle. America’s basic car formula for decades. Valiant/Volare, Dart/Aspen, Falcon/Maverick/Fairmont, Chevy II/Nova, Rambler.
110 is the magic number. Just the right distance between the firewall and the rear wheels for two rows of grown-up seats. Much smaller and the back seat’s too small. Much bigger and it’s too big for the six. The most popular AA6s were right at 110 inches, like this ’68 Dart.
First All-American Six: 1939 Studebaker Champion.
Last All-American Six: 1983 Ford Fairmont.
Best All-American Six: Slant-Six Dart.
God I can smell the urine just seeing Tiny’s in pictures.
CSB: The owner of Tiny’s was/is a landlord in Springfield and my former boss at the mill rented a house from him years ago. He had a mid 60s American car of some kind parked in the driveway as his project. It was stolen, and he moved out a while later. A few years after that, he drove by Tiny’s and saw his car for sale in the parking lot with the owner’s phone number on the sign.
My boss called the police and went in the bar to look for the owner. The owner saw him and bolted out back and took off in the car! A very slow OJ-like chase ensued for a few miles through rush-hour traffic. The bar owner drove to a car lot a few miles away and left the keys in the car and went into the dealer. Boss was still on the phone with the cops when the bar owner and a stranger got into a car on the lot and drove off. He got his old car back.
/end CSB
I learned to drive on a ’63 Valiant 170. Basic model with push button Torqeflight, back-up lights and pinky-assist steering. The car was built like an anvil; so much that it was almost impossible to shut the doors without a window cracked. Wooomph! Your ears would pop, it was that air tight. And for handling, it felt like there was a giant pole pushed right through the dome light which the car would swivel on. Perfect yaw, and a joy to drive in snow.
It idled so dead quietly that many a times my granddad (the original owner) would grind the flywheel thinking that it stalled.
I don’t remember the 170 being a rev-happy ball of fire, would have loved to have the performance package mentioned on the ’60’s compact car competitions.
I saw that comment by Karesh and I wondered about it too. Maybe he had a brain fart that day? I’ve seen Michael’s postings on several different boards, and he seems like a pretty good guy. I’m just guessing he had an off day. We all do.
As for Darts: Can I say here that they all rusted out? Other than that issue, sign me up for one. Specifically the one I had back in the early 80’s, a 1975 Dart Sport with a 360 and Torqueflite. Late adolescent stupidity totaled the car six weeks after taking possession of it.
Not that I didn’t have plenty of experience with Darts, Dusters and Valiants. But there’s not enough room for all of the stories. Let’s just say that in GM town, the Dart got respect. It could handle the job.
The boxy ones were the poor man’s limo, it would take you anywhere you wanted to go. You just had to drive there in it. I had a girlfriend in HS who’s first car was a 4 door 1976 Dart. It was surprising the amount of room in the back that car.
FWIW: The later Aspens and Volares (post-1977) were actually pretty decent cars. A college buddy of mine had one, and it had taken all the abuse a young guy could throw at it. I’d met several other folks who had the post-1977 ones and gave me similar stories. But I guess the damage had been done, and there was no going back.
EDIT: I’ve been interested in the new Dart ever since I saw it announced. I’ve been waiting for the second coming of the Lancer ES Turbo I loved so long ago. At a minimum, I’m hoping it’s something at least as interesting as the Neon ACR cars…
The Dart/Valiant are about a decade before my time, but I don’t think what Karesh said was necessarily out of line. “POS” is probably the wrong description, though.
What they were was cheap appliances with dowdy styling and fit/finish that was typically inferior to GM. Yes, the powertrains were bulletproof and they were far better engineered than Ford’s crap compacts, but they were the kind of cars casual car enthusiasts thumbed their noses at. It was a car that little old ladies and thrifty, austere folks like Paul’s dad drove. A cut above American Motors’ loser reputation, but not by much.
It’s a reputation enforced by the media over the years. Al Bundy drove a Dart. Dennis Weaver’s emasculated protagonist in Duel drove a Valiant. Chrysler’s chronic quality control problems in the ’70s didn’t help, either. Ironically, the Dart’s cockroach-like durability probably further contributed to its loser-car image as they lived on in high school and senior center parking lots well into the ’90s.
We tend look at cars with rose colored glasses here. We see a car that was inherently good and ignore the lame reputation. I really don’t think the name matters with the new car, though. A handful of people might buy it because they absolutely loved their old A-body Dart. Some will laugh at Chrysler for bringing back a “stupid” name with a bad reputation. Everyone else will have forgotten about the old car or is to young to remember it.
Personally, I always kind of liked the A-body Chryslers. Hopefully the new car will turn out to be as good as it looks.
Al Bundy actually drove a Plymouth Duster, although they referred to it as a Dodge in the show.
I didn’t get the “POS” comment, other than to say, the Dart and Valiant were not-exactly-pretty cars that would never get one’s blood pumping and also never die. Maybe a POS from an excitement standpoint, but that was never the point of the Dart. But then, people don’t get why I gravitate toward the Crown Vics in the airport rental lot, either. One man’s POS is another’s faithful transportation; one man’s dowdy fleet sedan is another’s Panther Love fling for the week. 😉
I grew around the venerable 225 slant 6 and the torqeflight automatic in a ’64 Dodge 330 wagon (the base “full size” wagon Dodge made then) that my parents bought brand new that summer and they kept that car until sometime in 1977 when my Mom sold it to some HS kid for $150, still running though rusty and had something like over 140K miles on it, perhaps even over 145K by then.
We also had a ’72 Gold Duster that my Mom bought in 1976 and kept for 2 years without any major mechanical issues of any sort and I think it had that very same drive-train combo in it as well.
I still see them out and about even today, some have been restored/fixed up and look nice today, even if with aftermarket wheels and tires.
It’s “Torqueflite”, fellow gearheads!
I was around when the Dart was introduced and I remember the car being pretty well regarded in Indiana where I grew up. They did rust pretty quickly (as did most everything else from Detroit that was subjected to all that road salt). My high school English teacher had a 63 Dart plain jane 2-door, Slant Six, Torqueflite with push buttons in that pinkish color Chrysler Corp was using at the time and it was a rust bucket when she traded it for a new 67 Dart 2-door hardtop coupe, white with black vinyl top and interior with the 273, very sharp car that she pronounced better in every way over the old one; she especially liked that the automatic had a column shifter.
An aunt had a used 64 Dart, a silver blue 4-door with the 273 and Torqueflite that I drove on occasion and I remember that the carburetor used to flood fairly easily and the power steering was typically Mopar over boosted. Otherwise, very nice, solidly built car, good engine and transmission, pleasant to drive, nice ride.
Mamie Eisenhower’s old Valiant, in use by David and Julie:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmcnab/3047666357/
I had a 1972 Valiant 4-door for my last 2 years in law school and my first year working, 1985-88. It had a 225 slant six, Torqueflite, power steering, radio (which I replaced with a cheap am/fm cassette unit), and that was about it. It was yellow, with a green vinyl and duct tape interior. I bought it for $300 with 150,000 miles on it, and sold it 3 years later for $300 with 180,000 miles. It never stranded me, although it came close when the points self-destructed, but still made it home coughing and sputtering. It’s only real quirk was severe vapor lock in the summer, to the point where it would not re-start when hot until it cooled down. The solution was an extra key and leaving it running with the doors locked when doing errands. My girlfriend (now wife) hated it when it rained because it leaked onto the passenger side and she had to ride with her feet on the transmission hump to keep them out of the water. Thankfully it didn’t have carpet, just wall-to-wall rubber mats. I finally drilled some drain holes in the floor. I sold it when we got married and my parents helped us buy a new car. Sold it to a girl who needed a winter beater so she didn’t have to drive her new Camaro in the snow. I like to think it’s still out there somewhere….
A great law school car! Mine was a 71 Plymouth Scamp. I bought it when a junior in college in 1980 for $800 with about 95K on the odo. The Scamper took me all through law school too. It was kind of like Rudy (from the movie) – not that gifted but it would work its heart out. I solved the hot start problem with a second heat shield gasket between the carb and the manifold. Warmups were kind of long (and I had to go back to stock from about October-April) but that double-thickness gasket allowed me to advance the timing by 10 degrees or more, and both performance and fuel economy got a big boost.
I sold mine to a lawyer friend in 1985 after his parked car got smashed (some drunk ran off the road and hit it in his driveway). He was grousing about having to buy a car when he was desperate for one. He was happy to buy my 145K Scamper for $500 in about 1985 so that he could take his time looking for a new car. I will probably do a piece on it someday, as it was the closest I ever got to a real beater, but it was also one heckuva a good car.
Michael Karesh is “high” to call a Dart a POS. This, car and it’s Plymouth cousin, are one of the world’s best designed (practical driver) and most reliable cars.
My dad bought my mother a new 4 door stripper LeBaron in 1979. It had a slant six and a TorqueFlite and was very reliable. Not fun but decent transportation. Kind of a luxo Dart I guess. I would love to have a Dart with a slant six now.
I already posted this picture to the Cohort page, but thought it would be appropriate to add it here. I found it at a Target in Moline in 1999, it was clearly a daily driver. It’s the only Dart SE I’ve seen in the wild.
Oooooo! Either a Dart Special Edition, or (one of my favorite car-names ever) a Valiant Brougham! I desperately want to find and photograph one of these for a real CC. Color keyed wheel covers, poofy door panels with pull straps and some nice fat seats. I have always wondered if Chrysler put any sound deadening into these, as the normal Valiant and Dart never seemed to have much of it. Luxury for the masses!
I remember the Valiant Broughams of the mid-70’s. Like a “budget New Yorker” with all that crushed velour and the vinyl roof. Doors still slammed like a taxicab. Yes, I’d like one! Looks “big” in 21st Century eyes.
Oh man, seeing the picture of that car, reminded me of something I’d forgotten. In the mid-70s, one of our Mercury Montegos was broadsided by a woman running red light. The whole side of the car needed replaced, so my father had one of his buddies from the old country fix the car at his body shop.
The first week or so, we got the body shop owner’s personal Pontiac Bonneville. It was equipped with the 455, and my dad was used to driving nothing more than a 351 in his mid size Mercurys. It made for some interesting driving adventures, as the Poncho had a LOT more power than the Montego.
For some reason the repair took longer than anticipated, and we gave back the Bonnie and rented a Valiant, like the one pictured above. Considering we were going down a body size or two from the Bonnie, a couple of cylinders and 230 cubic inches (probably 125 HP, too), the old box acquitted itself rather well by my father’s standards.
While he wasn’t too thrilled about the loss in power, the additional fuel mileage was a huge plus in his eyes. The rest of the car was put together fairly well, and it was comfortable in as much as I remember almost 40 years later.
But when the Montego was done, he was happy to get back behind its wheel again.
The man knew what he liked.
Yes, the SE and Brougham did have extra insulation. I also really like the Dart Special Edition and Valiant Brougham, they remind me of miniature New Yorkers. I have a dealer vehicle selection binder for the 1975 Plymouths, maybe I should scan some of it into the Cohort.
Seems most Dart SE’s/Valiant Broughams of ’74-’76 came in brown. Quite popular in the day in Northern California. Little trivia – beginning around 1971, cars sold new in California had to have the little emissions information stickers on the window, usually affixed on the rear seat windows, oddly on most cars, the passenger window driver’s side. Mopar had little squarish stickers in clear “colorforms” plastic with blue lettering. (Hydrocarbon info,, CO and CO2 info, etc. “this car meets California emission standards for model year, blahbedy blah blah).
The problem with calling the car “Dart” is not that the old one was so bad when it was made, but that the old ones were all worn out and undesirable by the 80s and 90s, which is when the target market for the new Dart was growing up. (I assume the primary demographic target for the new Dart will be people under 40, given its size and pricing) If you’re old enough to remember the Dart when it was new, I suspect Sergio would much rather that you purchase a Charger, Avenger, 300 or 200, with their presumably higher profit margins.
As a child of the 80s myself, my only recollection of the Dart is the rusted out example driven by a nanny we had way back when. It may have been solid and reliable, but by the early 80s it was not appealing, and it was hopelessly out of date compared to the late 70s Corolla that replaced it. I’m sure that those who had them as beaters in high school/college/grad school might have fond memories, but I suspect most of the target buyers are at best indifferent.
I do understand Dodge’s desire to “Dodge-ify” a car with very little Dodge DNA, but without a lot of nostalgia for the Dart name among the target buyers, I don’t see the name being particularly helpful. Not that I think “Neon,” “Omni” or “Shadow” would convey any positive sense of nostalgia either. But perhaps the choice of the “Dart” name has less to do with selling Darts, and more to do with selling other Chrysler products to those old enough to remember the Dart from when it was still relevant.
I don’t know if the kids who were in High School in the ’90s- of which I am one- have negative views of the dart, at least in the midwest. They were too thin on the ground there to have any connotation. Even growing up, I never saw enough in the flesh to get the ‘Al Bundy crap car’ connotation. But then, my cousin had a ’78 Volare with the slant six when she was in college in the 80s, and still says its the best car she ever owned. Of course she’s only driven GM cars since, so that probably says something.
I really think that Demon- the first name of the Duster clone before it became the ‘Dart Sport’- would be a much better name, and more fitting for Dodge’s ‘bad boy’s toys’ image. Of course that would probably anger the far right even more than it did in the ’70s.
The only thing I lament is that the car they are calling the Dart isn’t. Its a Fiat. Now, Fiats aren’t bad cars anymore, and are actually better than Fords or indeed Hondas now. (given Honda’s horrid diesel engine and having hired former GM cost engineers to carry out a general crappification)
But a Fiat will never be a replacement for the A body. You’ll never hear your buddy tell a story about a Fiat like how he drained the oil out of his Valiant on a bet and drove it the entire week like that. That’s what Chrysler needs to build now- a proper simple car- with parts over-engineered and able to be fixed by anyone. Imagine- a slant six with the heavy duty torqueflite mated to a bodyshell made of today’s galvanized steel. I’d buy one tomorrow.
Until then, I’m making do with my Volvo 240 and Rover p4.
Heck, as a child growing up in the 60s and 70s, I definitely remember Darts and Valiants, and that distinctive Mopar high-pitched starter sound when starting up the car.
Those cars could run, run and run. Not fancy or exciting at all, but just plain durable and reliable. Most of the ones I saw had the 225 slant-six coupled with the Torqueflite automatic. The angled position of the Slant-six made access for service easy.
I think they were popular with older drivers so there were many that lasted a long time and weren’t abused.
Plebian, plain-Jane? Yes. POS? No, at least from the standpoint of dependability and reilability for the times.
My love affair with Mopar compacts started with my dad’s 1960 Valiant (a company car – he was a staunch Chevy/Buick man up to that point) which converted him to a Mopar fan, and when replacing his company car every 2 years or 100K miles (usually hit the mileage point long before the time point) would choose a Mopar. Through the ’60s we only had one non Chryco product, a ’67 Galaxie, which was replaced in less than a year by a ’67 Fury! The ’60 Valiant, followed by a ’62, ’63, ’65, and the ’67 Fury followed by a ’68 Fury.
I took my driver’s license course and test in a ’73 Valiant Brougham, and in ’76 bought a ’68 Dart GT 2 door hardtop with bench(!!!) seats and the 273 V8 and 3 speed torqueflite. I actually kept that car until 1982, because even though I owned many other cars during that time frame, only the Dodge never let me down, and it was basically my daily driver. Never needed to be plugged in during the winter, got me a solid 22 mpg on the highway, and the only part I replaced in the 6 years I owned it was the starter. I replaced the original 13’s with nice sporty 14’s, and it handled spectacularly better than any of my friends’ cars.
A neighbour on the street that intersects ours is still using his ’67 Dart 4 door sedan as a daily driver. If the rust can be kept at bay, there’s no doubt in my mind that a 60’s Dart can be kept running upwards of a million miles.
The styling may have been quirky, and then later somewhat dowdy, but there’s no denying the bulletproofness of the drivetrains.
I have been setting aside some cash in a savings account that one day will be used to purchase and restore a second or third generation Dart/Valiant, preferably 2-door post sedan. It’s my secret stash that Mrs. Monty doesn’t even know exists, and I’m over halfway to the goal!
I remember the Dart – as a kid at the time – as an Old Person’s Car; no question. A “church-lady” friend of the family bought a new 1974; and compared to the Coke-bottle bodies of FoMoCo and GM, it looked hopelessly dated…dowdy. Flat window glass; sharp curves; somewhat awkward proportions at some angles.
Those cars were bulletproof, no question; but for most of their production run they weren’t put together overly well. A Popular Science test in, I think, 1973, had a Dart…maybe it was a Valiant…came through the line with the right-side windshield wiper not attached to the linkage. Wiper was dead on the pivot; and Norbye and Dunne were nonplussed.
Should they use the name? I’d want to see their marketing research, if any. On the one hand, it harkens back to the Good Old Days of Chrysler as a proud automotive concern. On the other hand…all the bad assembly and bad angles and out-of-touch marketing….
My dad bought a 72 Dart for $350 when I was about 17, in 1983. It had no fenders, floors or trunk – all had been eaten away by rust (this was in northern New Brunswick, Canada, a hell I got out of about a year later). We spent a few weekends pop-riveting in sheet metal to rebuild it, and I remember finding some quarters that had fallen into crevices here and there. 225 c.i. slant 6, 3 speed slushbox, manual everything, rat leather (vinyl) seats, lime green in and out. We painted it with a roller and metal paint.
Damn thing ran for years. My sister drove it for 3 hours with no oil in the motor until it seized. We towed it home with a ’78 Granada and some rope (that was a real test of my teenage driving skill, since my dad was working the brakes in the Dart behind… very close behind). Found another 225, dropped it in, kept it going for another bunch of years.
It would do 90 floored, but no more, racing around the country roads in that armpit town. I raced my buddy once in his folks’ 84 Cutlass Supreme and almost kept up for the first few seconds :). LearJet 8-track with Van Halen, Blue Oyster Cult and Jethro Tull warbling out the cracked dash-mounted “speaker”. I don’t miss it :).
POS? Bullshit. The Dart is like a cockroach with wheels.
I remember one guy referring to 70’s Chrysler cars telling me “those are poor people friendly cars, easy and cheap to maintain”
There are still some working as taxis in Venezuela. Those things are simply unkillable. They developed a weak poin over the years with the front end and some people swapped the whole Chevy Nova subframe under them, others performed a solid axle conversion.
My dad had 2 Dart GTs during the 80’s. I remember how he chirped the tyres so the small kids in the back could have fun, also the dual exhausts with Woody Woodpecker in the tips.
Hopefully Chrysler won’t tarnish the name with the new one. I also hope that someday the Neon gets revived.
i have a 72 dart with a 318 and a 727 in my yard now it’s a beast .
they will bury me in it
It all depends on what your personal definition of “good” is.
Darts were like the decades of soviet cars that the middle class settled for. They ran forever on crap fuel, but the bodies disintegrated like tissue paper.
Darts were a single purpose transportation tool. You could just keep replacing them in the 70’s/80s for $400 bucks a pop as they fell apart. There was always a way to get them to fire up and run, but don’t expect heat, radio, or any other amenities to work all the time.
They ended up being painted with house paint and a roller or brush, or just duct taped together.
Yeah, a “solid” drivetrain, cheap to buy and run. A “great” car? No.
Not all Darts were slouches , with a 340 or 383 they were fast , and because they were light , they handled well with bigger tires and shocks . Solid performers , reliable as well . Still get over 25 mpg on the highway with mine .
They had some wild colours as well , not your Grannies car
In Israel, where at the time all American cars belonged firmly and squarely at the higher end of the car market, these had a very different image than in the US – Darts (and Valiants) were, when new, cars for high-ranking IDF officers, company CEOs and lawyers (doctors drove German and French cars). Not quite up there with the full-size Dodges and Plymouths or the equivalent GM and Ford offerings – those were for the truly well-off – but still respected, yet somewhat understated. They also were well liked for their robustness, important in a country where everything had to be imported at cost and – until the early 90s – roads were bad. They did not mind the heat either. My father who had a law office in a small got his as a total loss; the car’s first owner was the CEO of a local paper mill. He got a local panel beater who learned his trade in the old days to graft a new front and for a fraction of the price of a new one he had it on the road. My father, not unlike Paul’s, was frugal and the car fitted his station in life without being ostentatious (like a Fury or an Olds 98 would have been). It was a 1971 model with the you-can’t-kill-it-with-a-stick 225/Torqueflite combination, manual steering, no power windows or aircon (hard to believe nowadays – how did we survive back then?) and served our family for 7 long years as well as being enlisted for the 1973 war (possible in Israel during wartime)… He always claimed it was the best car he ever had. The below was taken at a family friend’s yard – no idea why the front dish is missing!
… Some more, this time during wartime, somewhere in Egypt. When the IDF enlisted the car my father went with it even though he was exempt from reserve duty on account of being injured during the 1948 war (his M3 half-track hit an Egyptian mine) – he said he wasn’t going to let any IDF driver ruin the car after all the effort spent on it (he only got it on the road a few months earlier). He was away for 2 months with the car and it did not miss a beat. He reckoned they enlisted it on account of its color which was allegedly not too far from IDF drab, although to me it was more like the Egyptian desert sand hue with the obvious “friendly fire” risk…