Who would have guessed in 1955 that the then-new 265 cubic inch Chevy small block V8 would still be built so many decades later? With only a minimum of changes, creating the ultimate plug-and-play engine? Over one hundred million times?
Starting in 1991, the Generation II 5.7L (350 CID) LT1 versions first arrived, for the Corvette. And in 1994, this latest family with reverse flow cooling and other changes made its way into the B-Bodies. But in a somewhat curious tribute to the original 265 inch version from 1955, the standard version also had 265 cubic inches. And in both cases they were only built for three years.
When I ran its license plate of this Caprice to get its exact year, I was pleased to find out that it has that 4.3L L99 “Baby LT” V8. With the benefit of 40 years of development and its very effective new LT heads and modern fuel injection, it was rated at 200 net hp @5200 rpm and 245 ft.lbs. @2400 rpm, which for 1994 was pretty healthy for its size.
So how does that compare to the 1955-1956 265?
The ’55 265 V8 started out pretty mild, with 162 gross/137 net hp. But the Powerpak 4 barrel version upped that to 180 gross/160 net hp. Starting to get closer to the Baby LT already. And its net torque was 240 lb.ft. @2600 rpm, or just 5 less than the L99.
But by mid-year, the first of several generations of “Duntov” camshafts was available, and that upped hp to 195 gross/180 net, and 250 lb.ft. net torque. Closing right in on horsepower and more torque, although at a higher 3000 rpm.
In 1956, dual four-barrel carbs were on tap, and when combined with the Duntov cam, it was rated at 240 gross hp. Unfortunately there’s no readily available net rating for that engine, but we can extrapolate from the 1957 283 with the same dual four barrels and hot cam. It was rated at 270 gross/230 net hp. Using the same ratio, that would yield a net rating of 204 hp for the top dog 265.
Let’s just call it a (bow)tie. But it’s a bit surprising, given the 40 year time span, that the original 265 was about equally powerful as this latest one, with a number of generations of better heads and fuel injection.
Ann then there’s the elephant whale in the room: the ’94 weighed almost a half ton more than the ’55. (4,036 lbs vs. 3,145 lbs).
Obviously, the L99 was smoother idling than the lumpy Duntov-cammed 265. And of course, cleaner. The LT generation had a number of significant changes, most of all a reverse flow cooling system that kept the heads cooler and the whole block at a more even temperature. That means the head and block are not interchangeable with the classic SBC, but the internal components mostly are. And the heads were also improved for better flow and higher output, and of course there was modern fuel injection. After 40 years, the SBC was ready for its first substantial re-do, although the LT1/L99 were fairly short lived, and replaced by the even more advanced LS.
The L99 had the same 3.736″ bore as the 305, and used the same pistons. But it had the same short 3.00″ stroke that the 265, 283 and 302 V8s used, but its bore was an even 3.75″. But I did find it a bit surprising in 1994 to see this engine come out…what, a new 265? Especially with that short stroke, as the trend had been to longer strokes and less oversquare, and even undersquare engines. With modern heads, especially multi-valve ones, the benefit of a more oversquare engine were diminished, and longer strokes generally created the fatter torque curves that were desirable.
The 4.3 L99 was the standard engine on ’94-’96 Caprices, including police cars, and the 260 hp LT-1 was optional. All the B Body cars had iron heads, while the Y and F Bodies had aluminum heads.
The 4.3 L99 was EPA rated at 16/24/19 combined, while the 5.7 LT1 was 1 mpg worse, with a 15/23/18 combined rating.
We’ve covered these quite a few times before, and I’ll add the links to some at the bottom here. I was never a big fan of this redesign, but I get what GM was going after, once the Taurus redefined the genre. And I think I prefer the original version with the lower rear wheel openings, but again, I see why that affectation was getting stale pretty quickly. These certainly have very healthy rear wheel openings.
So that’s the story of the Baby LT. A 265 cubic inch oddity made for three years, which also happens to be how many years the original 265 small block was made. A tribute or a coincidence?
COAL: 1995 Caprice Wagon – The Holy LT1 Grail by jerseyfred
CC 1995 Caprice Classic – Engineer’s Choice by P. Shoar
CC 1994 Caprice Classic LS – Last of the Best by T. Klockau
So how much weight did the “new” 265 have to lug around, compared to the old?
according to Google, the 1955 BelAir weighed 3153 pounds; the 1994 Caprice 4054.
Suddenly, it’s 1975.
3843 for my 1996 maroon base 4.3 sedan according to the title.
The lack of body side moldings (BSM) seems to indicate some kind of fleet duty. Note how the molding is featured on the bumpers but deleted (with no apparent holes) on the sides of the body.
I spotted a former fire department Caprice like this for sale near my house and told the younger brother of a friend of mine. He ended up buying it and loved the car. He always said it was fast and was better-taken care of than most police versions. He eventually sold it but still talks about it to this day.
But that Caprice was probably not a 265. It was probably an add-on to the same town’s police car order and equipped the same. Some years my city even ordered the City Manager’s official car that way.
I think the body side molding was glued on rather than screwed. This car sure looks like a police package from a distance, but I don’t think it is. The front air dam is the give-away: civilian cars had a full width front air dam, 9C1 cars had a narrower air dam with deflectors to send air towards the brakes. This car had the full width version. That is something very few owners would worry about swapping or even replacing if it gets knocked off.
This could be a former taxi cab, or some government agency pool vehicle, or just grand dad’s last car that someone shaved some molding off of.
Given the mods the owner probably removed them, moldings are presumably held on with a heavy duty duty double sided tape like on many 90s-current cars, rather than clips.
Ah yes, the car with the second goofiest personalized plate, cumming, so to speak, after “SPURUM”.
Anyway, I see this car all the time and it is quite the aural treat at speed. Very loud; nothing stock about that exhaust.
I’m mystified by this engine. What was the point? There was a period in the late 70s when manufacturers reduced volume in existing engines to make them more appealing to economy conscious buyers, but I don’t think in real life they delivered on their promise of better economy. Gm had the 4.3 v6 which was available in the monte carlo and caprice for economy minded purchasers if they were thinking a new fuel crisis was on the horizon, plus they offered the 4 cylinder lumina. Who decided that purchasers would be clamouring for a caprice with a shrunken engine? Actually, looking at the styling, who thought that anyone would clamour for this caprice?
Lemme take a stab at this, like a blind squirrel…
By ’95, V-8 passenger cars were all but dead, and pickups hadn’t yet become the sales behemoth that they are now. This left the V-8 factory with excess production capacity, so it was cheaper to slap together this tiny mouse than it was to build more 4.3 liter V-6 engines, because the S-10 and baby Blazer were using up every V-6 they could produce.
If that’s not the case, I got nuttin’.
Except that the 4.3 V-6 was a cut down 5.7, so production tooling was basically the same.
After having a serious case of automotive lust over the “Bent Back Window” 1977 Chevies; I always found this body style a retrograde mistake.
I dated a gal who had her Father’s hand me down ’77 F41, 350 4-BBL Caprice 2 door. We took it on our dates almost all the time. Looking back, I suspect that I liked the car as much (more?) than her.
In this color (Kelvinator White) it looks most unfortunate; inviting comparison to Herman Melville’s “Moby Dick”.
I remember reading that a GM executive, upon seeing this design, claimed that it would eat Crown Victoria’s lunch. He was a bit off. It was more like Queen Victoria’s month-old brunch.
A daring design, but more in what looked like a Hudson, a Packard, or a dead Horseshoe crab on an Atlantic City beach. They tried. GM thought it had a chance. No – I don’t know why.
Worse – it reeked of cheap. It seemed that someone told the interior designer committees not to spend more than $150 on the dashboard. That is why when you sit in this big car, you are greeted by an enormous featureless dash. So, the IP panel looks undersized. It is a whole lot of nothing to look over when you drive them.
Then there is that “90’s GM thing”, where the doors don’t seem to be more than sheet metal and molded plastic. Your left hand would go to the electric window panel that clicked like it was made from plastic disposable cups.
The Chevy seemed to be a better value than the Olds or Buick versions of these cars. I was pretty excited to see the Buick Roadmaster in the showroom when they were new. I had a lot of experience with the Town Cars, and with their redesign in 1990, I was interested in GM’s interpretation of the modern large luxury car. Unlike the Town Car, the Roadmaster felt cheap – but the window sticker was Town Car priced. While it was nicer than the Chevy – it was supposed to be a Buick. A Roadmaster. Instead, the car seemed more like a Buick Roadblister. I was very disappointed.
So, GM designed this car to look quite passable as an Olds Ninety-Eight, or a Roadmaster – big, floaty, swoopy luxurious. The car looked heavier than it was. However, as a Chevy – it didn’t look like a Chevy. It didn’t look lively, or able to get out of its own way. Chubby, not Chevy.
This stripped version looks very stripped. I bet it is a pretty good car. It has all the parts to make it one. I just wish it didn’t look like a pre-schooler’s Step 2 turtle sand box.
I often found my Uncle’s 1995 Chevy Caprice inferior, in many different ways, to my same year Mercury Grand Marquis.
The Chevy did have a slightly stronger V8 engine. But just as there is more to a man than his screwdriver; there is more to a car than it’s engine.
Oldsmobile did not have a sedan version of this car. Just the Custom Cruiser wagon for 91-92. The Olds 98 remained on a redesigned fwd H body platform
Funny, I remember this…
Paul,
Are you sure about the aluminum heads? I was under the impression that all the full-size cars with LT1/L99 engines received iron heads. Only the Corvette and Camaro/Firebird got the aluminum heads.
As to the comparative ratings of the old 265 versus the L99, setting aside the obvious differences in idle quality and fuel economy, my experience with the LT1 (in my now departed 94 Fleetwood) and what I’ve heard anecdotally was that the engines always felt more powerful than their nominal power ratings would suggest. Whether they actually were or not is a different question.
No I’m not. I got mixed info, but the more reliable source says only iron heads on the B Bodies.
The aluminum heads were definitely only for the F and Y-body cars. All B and D-body cars had iron heads. Some say the iron heads actually have a little more flow potential than the aluminum heads but they are obviously heavier.
The short lived 4.3 is an interesting question. CAFE strikes again? Surely an extra MPG or two could eke the fleet average up just a touch.
Or maybe it was in response to the Ford modular 4.6? Maybe not having anything smaller than a 5.0 was hurting Chevy’s fleet purchases if the Ford’s 1 mpg city/combined advantage over the Chevy swayed total cost of ownership calculations. According to Edmonds, both were rated at 24 highway, but the 1993 Chevy 5.0 was 15 city/18 combined and the Ford 16 city/19 combined.
I really wanted to like the new Caprice when it came out, and I agree that the earlier ones look more “whole” than the revised version. It was only when they put the Hoffmeister Kink in the rear side windows that they fixed this design’s biggest flaw.
Here’s my theory. CAFE clearly played a role, one extra MPG does make a difference when multiplied by the hundreds of thousands that they hoped to sell. There are other benefits as well. The 265 version cost the same to build as the 350, and it let Chevy charge more for the 350. Also Buick and Cadillac could point out that their cars had a larger and more powerful standard engine than the Chevy. The brand hierarchy was not entirely dead in the 1990’s.
Lots of experience with these cars and engines. I owned both a 1996 green grey Caprice with the 5.7 engine package that also included the limited slip 2.93 rear gears, sport suspension, alloy wheels and leather steering wheel and it was the series III package meaning it had power everything, leather seatings, Twilight Sentinel and CD player. That was in 2003. After having lost my job to the horrible affects of 911 the Caprice had to go and was thus sold on Ebay.
Fast forward to 2012 and the opportunity arose to buy another one. This was a maroon 1996 sedan in base trim, 4.3 liter V8, optional alloy wheels and CD player as the only options. It was a rust free car from PA and well taken care of with only 89K miles on the clock.
The 5.7 car was a hoot and would blast past most cars in a drag race at the time. This was an old lady special with only 30k miles and still looked and smelled like new. Curb weight as listed on the title was a tick over 3900 LBS. This car rode and handled very well for a near 4000 LB full sized full frame sedan and I was always impressed how well this large beast handled corners and windy roads.
The maroon 4.3 car was pretty darn competent too but with a bit less pull from the smaller motor and handling ability that required more care around the twisty bits. I did put in a rear sway bar, HD gas shocks all around and upgraded the 215/75 tires to 225/70’s and that helped noticeably. The surprising thing to me was how well that little 4.3 moved this 3843 LB, as per the listed title weight, car around. In fact it shared much of the 5.7’s demeanor and even sounded nearly identical with the same high winding roar. This engine was much more competent than either the 5.0 or 5.7 TBI engines from just a few years before which suffered form having a much lower rev limit and lame 2.56 highway gears on 5.0 models. This car had the oil cooler, HD cooling and 3.23 limited slip option also which I’m sure gave this example extra kick compared to the std 2.93 peg leg setup. I numerous times measured an 8.2 second 0-60 time with my stop watch in this car!
Fuel economy was also an interesting comparison between the 2 cars. The 5.7 was for sure thirstier seeing the usual 15-16 driving around town and the suburbs and about 24-25 on the open road in steady highway driving. The 4.3 car was a tad better in the city but notably better on the open road seeing 27-28 in the same runs as the 5.7 car. Considering this engine made 60 less HP and nearly 90 LBS FT less torque compared to the 5.7 moving around the same basic car makes this seem even more strange considering how much harder the 4.3 would need to work moving around similar mass.
I used to think the hoffmeister kink revision was the best improvement but after looking at this car, but I’m starting to think that I only like it because of the Impala and its other improvements like the wheels. In fleet white with its own set of sportier wheels and it’s lowered stance this looks pretty damn good to me, and that longer window shape makes the roofline sleeker. But I like the original skirted design too, so I guess I’m just indecisive
I find low displacement OHV V8s after the 60s very anachronistic, and defeating of the V8’s inherent strengths which is smooth running with large displacements. 4.3 liters is balance shaft V6 territory by the 90s, of which Chevy in fact had in the same displacement, also derived off the SBC architecture, and also had 200 horsepower and more torque, 260, in L35 form.
Was going to say this. I guess it’s a sign of GM’s problems, that management loosened the purse strings to allow Chevy to produce a 4.3 litre spinoff of the V8 when there was already a 4.3 V6 available. And torquier too.
That would’ve been fun for the new car salesmen, if a buyer looked at the engine chart and went “What the…?” 🙂
“Who would have guessed in 1955 that the then-new 265 cubic inch Chevy small block V8 would still be built so many decades later? With only a minimum of changes…”
Minimum of changes? Name a part on the ’94 engine that’s the same as the ’55 engine.
Bellhousing bolt pattern
Bore spacing
The oil pan drain plug probably fits both, but wouldn’t be the same part number.
MAYBE some random bolts, nuts, washers
You missed the key point: The LT was the first sbc to have significant changes. Prior to that, there was a huge amount of interchangeability between all the sbc engines.
“Bore spacing”?? Every SBC including the LT and even the LS has/had a 4.400″ bore spacing. And the great majority of internal components of the pre-LT engines could indeed be swapped into an LT block.
I never said every part was exactly the same, I said “with a minimum of changes”. In relative terms, over 40-50 years, there was a minimum of changes, since parts from a 1955 (like heads) could indeed be swapped on a 1993, or vice versa.
PN: 1
Schurkey: 0
I am going to say very limited interchange and try to point out some major reasons why.
Yes, the family DNA string survived, but that’s about it. There were significant evolutionary changes along the way making earliest builds significantly incompatible with latest. “Significantly” meaning changes that would limit interchange.
Tin – There were several evolutionary changes to valve covers and their mating surfaces, which made interchange impossible.
Ditto oil pans.
Block – Crankshafts changed, both in main journal diameter, rear seal type, flywheel bolt pattern – making interchange impossible.
Fuel pump mounting provision eliminated with change to fuel injection.
Oil stick moved several times. Not all locations compatible with ancillaries.
Accessories – Of course the original 265 lacked provision for side engine mounts, making it practically impossible to install in a post ’58 car.
No oil filter used with the original version. Can filter until ’67. Or was it ’68? Whatever.
Some combinations of SBC could be mix-and-match bolted up, but then there’d be no provision to install a starter motor.
Ditto power steering pump.
Cylinder heads – Although similar, exhaust ports and bolt pattern changed slightly, making some combinations incompatible for bolt-up.
Intake surface of head changed. Particularly angle of center bolts. Makes ideal fit-up of swapped intake impossible.
Accessory mounting bosses on cylinder heads changed, making bolt-in interchange impossible.
There’s more. Not trying to crucify the design, just pointing out that the myth of unlimited interchange is just that.
This is a silly debate. No one ever claimed “universal interchange”. After 40 years, that would not be realistic. Who would want to put 1955 heads on a 1995 LT?
But the degree of interchange that is possible with the right knowledge is of course unlike any other engine, with the exception of the air cooled VW. It gives those wanting to build up an engine a huge range of possibilities. Typically that involves owners of older vintage SBC opportunities to upgrade, such as better breathing heads on a vintage 283, 327, or lo-po 350.
That’s what made the SBC so dominantly popular.
Shurkey made claims that were factually incorrect, such as different bore centers. I simply pointed out the facts, and if someone was determined enough, one could build an SBC with parts spanning several decades. But I certainly never claimed “universal interchange”. So there’s no need to kill that myth.
I wasn’t debating any commentors here, but was pointing out that as usual there were significant changes during production. There actually is a less informed faction that truly believe that GM would run production for decades without change.
An example might like to swagger into a parts store and demand something like “a starter for a 350” and then try to belittle the counter person for having the audacity to ask for more details.
I stumbled on an interesting bit of trivia on the Wiki. The Pontiac 265 V8 smog motor had the same bore and stroke as the ’55 265 SBC. 120 hp.
I don’t think this one was a police or fire vehicle.
At least not marked or for front line response.
They typically came with the drivers door/A-pillar cut
out for the spotlight (semi-elliptical shaped with a rubber
plug for the outfitter to remove at installation time). Agencies
typically left spot lights in place when they retired the car.
Also no similar plug on the roof where the factory harness
would have protruded for the light bar.
I was a patrol cop when the 91 Hudson Hornets hit the streets.
After 6 years of driving Dodge Diplomats with 318s & 360’s equipped
with 2 BBL’s these things were like rocket ships. I was told that our Dodges
were Taxi packages rather than Police Pusuit. All heavy duty but no ooommph.
The old chief viewed cars as appliances and didn’t want us zipping around.
The new chief, despite being a major league butthead, was a car guy, particularly
a Chevy guy. And he liked to spend money. He lasted half as long as the old guy.