Hermine was the first hurricane to directly impact Florida in quite some time. Several weeks ago a similarly rare event occurred: my dad expressed interest in purchasing another car to replace his current one. Unfortunately he’s done nothing but vex me since then, giving me vague answers as to what he’s looking for in his next car, but I suspect he’ll pick something up before the year is out. The question is, what will it be? And what should it be?
His interest in obtaining a new vehicle came about when the battery light suddenly popped up while he was driving to Westchester on a hot August day, with the car being under heavy load due to AC use. The light shuts off once the AC is switched off, but that is hardly any consolation and likely indicates an impending replacement of the battery and/or alternator, as the same symptom resulted in both getting replaced in the past, which did fix the issue. Since the last battery replacement occurred at least four years ago this isn’t anything earth shattering, but this time around he’s questioning putting any more money into the car. Can’t say I blame him; even though he doesn’t travel much the car still has about 175,000 miles on the clock, and its not getting any younger.
My sister has indicated that she and her husband could use another car, which will probably be the main catalyst for him getting into something else. He’s previously given her a vehicle in the past: the 2004 Camry pictured above, which they initially borrowed before purchasing it from dad for a fraction of its value. The beigemobile is still going strong, but their lives would be much easier if they owned two vehicles. I think giving them the Taurus is a wise option, as its a known quantity that likely still has a lot of life left in it.
The catalyst that started the search is the 2015 Impala LS Limited you see above. My dad was interested enough to take it out for a spin but came away unimpressed. His verdict? “It didn’t wow me.” I certainly understand where he’s coming from; the Impala behaved quite similarly to his Taurus, with a few notable exceptions.
For starters, the electric power steering didn’t produce acceptable feedback, but it did require less input in low speed situations compared to the Ford, which I liked. On the highway, the Impala was very quiet, with little road noise reaching the cabin. Acceleration was brisk, but the six speed automatic prioritizes fuel economy over performance so much that it completely invalidates the advertised 302 horsepower figure. My butt tells me it felt more like 230 ponies; I’ll concur with that assessment. The Impala also felt composed over bumps with a ride nearly indistinguishable from the Taurus, but the Ford feels more confident around corners. Chalk it up to the Impala weighing about 400 pounds more.
As for the interior, it was a mixed bag. The positive attributes of the cabin amounted to the steering wheel and the seats, both of which felt very comfortable and well suited for long trips. Everything else disappointed me, especially the buttons, which are too small for their own good. This isn’t limited to the Impala either; The Verano and Silverado also suffer from this malady. To make matters worse the button to adjust the power mirrors came off when my dad tried to use it, making the oddly shaped mirrors even more useless than they already were. I was going to complain about the floor shifter not being labeled until I realized that the column shifter in the Taurus, along with most column shifters, aren’t labeled either.
Driving dynamics aside, the Impala simply looks far too similar to the Taurus, especially when taking color into account. Throw the Camry into the mix and it gets even more complicated. Did the Ford and Toyota get freaky one night, and is the Impala proof of that encounter?
Enough about the Camry, Taurus, and Impala. Time to start talking about potential replacement vehicles by starting off with…another Taurus. I swear I’m not being lazy by including it in my list; before he expressed interest in the Chevy my dad kept talking about how much he likes the design of the current generation Taurus. Introduced for 2010 model year, the latest Taurus is definitely due for a replacement, but given the state of the full size sedan segment that might not happen.
Of course we all know that age is just a number, right? After all, his 2006 has bones that date back to 1985, while the Impala’s architecture debuted in 1988. Every late model Taurus rides on a design that is either twelve years old or eighteen years of age, depending on whether you consider the D3 platform a true break from the Volvo P2 platform of which it is derived.
Automotive history aside, Ford’s full size could work for him. Steep depreciation means its not hard to find a well equipped model for a very reasonable price. Its got a ride and handling balance that definitely ranks above the Impala, and while I’m sure the SHO would wow him, I think the standard V6 has more than enough power for everyday driving. The seating position, dubbed “Command Seating” in Ford marketing speak, would make ingress and egress easier for his aging knees and back. All wheel drive would help in the winter and the trunk is huge. The same can be said for the Lincoln MKS, which is also a top pick.
What prevents this from being my number one pick is no doubt familiar to any of you who have ever had the pleasure of riding in one of these things: the interior space for the driver and passenger is extremely lacking and not much bigger than a mid size sedan. Exterior dimensions also come into play as the Taurus is noticeably wider than his current ride, to the point where it might be impossible to fit inside the garage. Its visibility is also an issue and definitely not ideal for parking or maneuvering in tight spots.
Which leads me to my second place choice, a 2013-2016 Fusion. This is the direct replacement for his car, and not just because its the latest mid size from Ford. Interior dimensions are very similar to his Taurus, with the Fusion being a bit wider, which greatly helps with hip room. Trunk space is nearly the same and visibility, while not ideal, is at least comparable to what he is familiar with. CPO prices on the Fusion are pretty reasonable for the SE trim level and the models without MyFordTouch have the exact same user interface that I have in my Focus, so the learning curve for him won’t be too steep. Large buttons for the audio controls are a big plus.
In terms of ride and handling, I would be very surprised if he wasn’t impressed with the Fusion, as even more basic models feel extremely well composed on the road. With 175 horsepower and a six speed transmission, the Ford 2.5 liter will feel appreciably faster than what he has now. Obviously any of the optional engines, including the hybrid powertrain, would offer even more performance, but the added cost might not be worth it.
Which is why my top pick for replacing the Taurus is the Ford C-max. Its a great value for a CPO vehicle since hybrids aren’t in vogue right now, and this particular model never set the world on fire anyway, which means you can find a fully loaded one with low miles for well under $20,000. Its quiet, roomy, and has excellent visibility. The ride and handling definitely punch above its class, and I’ve seen torque estimates for this powertrain come in at 230 lbs; no slouch at the stoplight, especially with the instant thrust a hybrid provides when accelerating from a standstill. The higher ride height means exit and entry are easier when compared to your average sedan. Long term ownership with a C-Max seems like an easy decision since Ford’s record with hybrid engines has no blemishes, aside from that gas mileage controversy several years ago.
Honorable mentions? The 300, Impala, Accord, Camry, Avalon, Cruze, Legacy, Verano, Regal, and Malibu are at the top, but seem way too expensive as lightly used cars. Suspect long term reliability takes the 200 out of the equation, as does any Volkswagen; Hyundai and Kia are big unknowns as well. The only Mazda dealer in the area has a terrible reputation so no zoom zoom for papa. I’m not impressed with any modern Nissan.
Parameters for a recommendation? He doesn’t want to buy or lease anything new, and he is partial to sedans, coupes, or wagons. I don’t think he is considering anything above $20,000, so I’m thinking the sweet spot is anything between $13,000 and $17,000. CPO is a big plus.
Wild cards? He routinely browses Craigslist for cars around the $5,000 range. I think anything below the $10,000 mark is a bad idea because at that point he’s not getting something I feel would last any longer than his Taurus.
This QOTD is now the length of a well researched Curbside Classic article, which means its time for me to stop writing and let you guys do the talking. If you’ve made it this far I owe you a drink.
Fusion – don’t rock the boat.
If the height of the “hip point” is important to him, then go with the C-Max. It’s basically a little minivan minus the sliding doors.
He worked as a bread delivery man for 35 years so his knees are definitely an issue, which is why I think the C-Max is the best option. I should have mentioned that in the post.
I own a 2013 Ford Fusion with the 1.6 Ecoboost and the upgraded Sync system. While I am not totally enamored with the capacitive buttons for the climate control, the system isn’t too bad overall. Other than that I really enjoy the car and can definitely recommend it.
I endorse the C-Max, I am driving a C-Max Energi, the plug in version of C-Max. The car drives well, even handles well enough. Not much luggage room, but still big enough for sets of golf bags, sort of. Not a car to go on long trips with 4 people and their luggage, but perfect for 2-3 people with luggage.
My average mgh for the the last 6 months is 58 mgp including a trip from Palm Springs to Victoria BC, another one from Palm Springs to San Francisco, and frequent 250 miles round trip from Palm Springs to LA. If you daily drive is less than 25 miles on ralatively flat terrain, then you are on electric full time. Highway mileage is not as good as one would like, around 38-41 mpg.
I leased mine, fully loaded for less than $300 a month. I am a happy trouper.
My mother was able to get a new Fusion for 20k. She’s had it for 9 months and loves it. She is in her 70s and has no trouble getting in and out of it.
If looking at Fusion, but don’t want a lot of ‘new fangled stuff’, look at a base S model. Not really a ‘stripped’ car, but doesn’t need to read a manual for an hour to figure out how to change the A/C temp!
I am totally with you there, Tomcatt. Nothing is really “stripped” these days and would be precisely the choice I would make.
Definitely a good suggestion. I think a 2.5 SE would be the best for him since they come standard with a power driver seat with power lumbar, which the S doesn’t have.
agreed that the s version has lousy seats. upgrade to an se just for comfort alone.
Get a Mustang GT.
You won’t be bothered by anyone asking for rides in the back and you’ll look for any and every opportunity to punch it.
You only live once.
I like the way you think…but having owned one, I can tell you they are cramped, and not the easiest for entry/egress.
Even when I was 35, I got sick of the ingress/egress of my ’94 Stang. I cant imagine now driving it every day. I’m ‘older’ now, 😉
A Mustang would be useless here for at least several months of the year due to the cold weather/snow, and buying winter tires only makes the car less of a value proposition. Plus his bad knees mean no manual for him. If he wants a second car, however, an automatic GT might not be a bad idea, but I don’t think he does.
Well, my Dad is 78 this year and he bought a new 2014 Escape from my Father in Law the Ford Sales Associate.
I think the only issue he’s had is the rear hatch inside handle pulled loose, which was instantly fixed under warranty.
Initially he groused a bit about the touch screen, small buttons etc but he likes it OK.
Used 2014’s seem to be running about $15k – $20k around here.
The Escape replaced a Kia Rondo. Dad liked the vehicle but not the dealership & service department experience.
In Nov. of 2012
I purchased a brand new 2013 Escape SE 1.6 Turbo..$23,000
Still enthused about it after 3 years and 57 years of driving experience.
Kia Soul. My 80 year-young mom was very reluctant to test drive one because she views them as ugly…but she did finally take a test drive after my persistent recommendations. Now owns one.
It sits higher than a sedan and has a large door opening—ideal for the less flexible mature adult. Lots of head and shoulder room, great visibility. Low prices. Great warranty. Good on gas.
If you can stomach the krappy dealer network, you will likely not regret your purchase. They are also available used, with available warranty, at every Carmax in the country.
The Kia Soul is definitely a viable option, but I think if he is going to go for something in that class the C-Max represents the better value since they aren’t in demand right now.
I’ve heard that the C MAX will be dropped from the lineup soon, it has been a poor seller for Ford. They are few and far between to be seen on the streets. I test drove one and thought it was a nice driving vehicle, also liked the overall body style.
Quit automatically assuming that Kia’s are suspect cars and the dealers are automatically crap. We’ve had two at our house, a Spectra and a Sedona, have had excellent service from them, and our dealer is one of the big reasons we’re keeping at least one Kia in the driveway at all times.
I get really tired of the constant assumptions that Kia’s are second rate. Quite frankly, they’re as good as the competition, and better than most of them.
Calm down. I think the point r_henry was trying to make is that Kia only has about 750 dealers total nationwide. Probably why he pointed out there are tons available at Carmax as well. Everything else in that post was positive, for crying out loud…
I will vouch for the Soul, however. Sis bought one of the first ones off the boat, owned it for 4 years and 94,000 miles with zero problems. Great cars. They really make the Rio hatch redundant, as the soul is a lot more car for very little extra coin.
Did you not notice that he actually recommended the Soul? So what makes you assume that he’s assuming that Kias are suspect cars? Chill out…
Prozac in on aisle four. Good Luck!
My biggest gripe with the Soul is the ride quality. My GF’s mother drives one (and loves it- minus the blind spots) but I found the ride to be very firm and choppy.
Yes. Compared to the Gen 1 Scion xB that inspired it however, Soul rides like a Rolls Royce.
I will speak AGAINST a current generation Mazda6. Though I love mine, it’s a low car with a low roof—entry and egress is far worse than par. (par being Camcord and Taurus/Altima…all of which I have driven)
2012-2014 Chrysler 200. Just a great value in a fairly traditional American sedan.
Entry, exit and front headroom [39″] are all excellent. Proven engine with the 2.4, the bugs from the 4 speed Ultradrive automatic have been worked out, a six speed auto is available on higher trim levels and depressed resale values make it a bargain.
Plus it has a smaller exterior than the Impala, Taurus, Fusion, etc. It’s as large as I’d want to go.
It’s one of the few I’d replace my ION with. That or an Avenger, Cruze or possibly Fusion.
The previous generation 200 would definitely be a good option, but he dislikes Chrysler products in general and also dislikes the looks of the Sebring/200.
The 2.4/6-speed automatic combination works well. Maggie traded her Spectra in on a ’15 Dart GT about six weeks ago and loves the car. Definitely a grossly underrated automobile.
I’m biased, but Ford Fusion. Particularly the 2006-2012 models that were largely Mazda based with at least one Mazda-designed 4 cylinder engine. I know it’s a Mazda besides the Wiki-knowledge because it feels like every 626 and Protege our family has ever owned (4 of them, all rock reliable).
Besides that, everyone who has driven my Fusion has complimented its driving dynamics and yet it still has that familiar driver friendly Ford feel to it. It truly is a fusion of all that is good in the automobile world — which the Ford Taurus started out as in 1986.
Consumer Reports said the 1st gen. Fusion is roomier inside than its full-size, Volvo based Taurus brother.
The latest generation Fusion is very attractive but it reported to be smaller inside plus it has moved away from the Ford-Mazda CD3 chassis to Ford’s own design. It’s more like Fission now. Anyway, at least the Duratec 2.5L 4 cylinder still exists…
The 2006-2012 Fusion is definitely a good option but I took it out of the running because its one of the models affected by the Takata airbag recall. Aside from that, the current gen Fusion is superior to its predecessor in almost every single way except for rear headroom and visibility, but his current Taurus suffers from the same maladies, so I don’t think it would be a problem.
The 12 Fusion isn’t part of the recall yet…
Fair enough, but I still think a 2013+ Fusion is the better way to go, although if the price was right a 2012 could work.
I’ve been in both the first and second generation Fusion. The first was sort of famous for poor rear legroom, but the current generation is quite spacious.
Among the current popular mid-size cars, I’d rank Camry as most spacious, Accord is probably second, and Fusion comes close to equaling Accord, but is probably third. This is based on butt time in these cars, not analyzing a spreadsheet. All three are comfortable cars, YMMV.
The current retail Impala is probably the best full-size car. I’d be hard pressed to pick the current Taurus over it. The Impala feels roomy, the Taurus feels smaller than the Fusion in some areas.
When I see how quickly they rust, it’s obviously engineered by Mazda and made in south.
Spend the extra $200 for a used MKZ instead of a used Fusion.
Then he, too, can do a backflip into a pool fully dressed and in the middle of the night.
I salute you in the inscrutable ways that Matthew would salute you.
Well, you can’t go wrong with a Camcord. A decent 2014 should run under $20K. Not as boring as you would think either, especially the V-6 models – 0-60 well under 7 seconds. World class reliability as well. The Avalon is a hidden gem. Equal to a Lexus ES in every respect. For some reason they are not promoted much and sales have never been great. Might be able to get a good deal here.
The Fusion would ‘make sense if it were significantly cheaper than the others, but it’s a less desirable car as well.
The Fusion is a much more desirable car than a Camcord.
Maybe in some peoples eyes the Fusion is better, but not everyone. In the area I live Ford’s (and other Big 3 cars) value drop like rocks on the used market, especially compared to a Camry/Accord. They are much more desired here and in a lot of areas. It also depends on what you value. Some may want reliability, comfort and resale over styling and sporty driving dynamics when they are picking the family car.
I know personally if I were in the market for a late model midsize, the Accord would likely be my number one choice. Even though not as dynamic to drive, I’d still take a Camry in a heart beat as a daily driver. And it’s not like I am blind to modern Fords. Our work fleet is almost exclusively Ford, and driving those cars has done nothing to win me over to a late model Ford.
The worst part about the Fusion is it’s utterly bland and cheap looking interior-especially in black. I’d rather have an Avalon than a Camry but they aren’t quite as cheap looking as a Fusion. Not that they look premium either, just a bit better.
FYI I just last week visited my favorite dealer and walked past rows of used 2014/15 Camry LE/SE 4 cylinder models and they were priced identically as the used Fusions and Malibu’s of the same years and equivalent models sitting in the rows behind them. Many of the 2014’s were 14995 and the 15’s were 15995 with similar mileage. Camry’s have flooded the market and are being sold in more rental and fleet sales than ever before so several year old examples are not holding any kind of superior resale value that I can see. The Accords were generally selling for a few grand more so those seem to be holding out some.
To be perfectly honest if I was buying for longevity (5+ years), it would be the Camry hands down. I beat my BIL’s 2005 4 cyl like a rented mule and it wanted me to rub it’s belly like a puppy. That’s all you got? At 275k miles it impressed me, and has been highly reliable to boot.
My point was that what is desirable to me might be different that what is desirable to you and completely different than what is desirable to the next guy. However count up the comments in this thread that are suggesting the Fusion, Camry and Accord and at least among this crowd the Fusion (or its stable mate MKZ) is clearly the more desirable car.
As far as resale value goes when you are buying a used car that you intend to keep for a while that one that depreciates quicker in the early years is a good thing not a bad thing. Of course resale value is market area dependent so YMMV depending on where you live.
I’m glad you said “at least among this crowd”. I believe there is a fairly strong bias toward domestic makes in general among the commenters here on CC. So counting the votes doesn’t mean anything as far as one being “better” or even more “desirable” in general than another and doesn’t necessarily make it the best solution. It is even more irrelevant if nobody makes sure that they are speaking from actually having had experience with all three. I’ll recommend a RAV4 over an Escape all day long if someone asks, but really wouldn’t know since I’ve never owned an Escape, just seen my neighbor take her company car Escape in over a dozen times in a year for recall work last year. Total anecdotal bias, the Escape may well be significantly better in every way that matters to Ed’s Dad.
At the end of the day, the best car for Ed’s dad from a purely objective viewpoint probably is a Prius with a set of snow tires for the winter or if he never wants to go to the trouble of paying CostCo or Discount Tire $10 per wheel to change them twice a year, then snowtires all year long and replace them every year or two. He doesn’t hoon it, it’ll seat 4 or 5, it’s miserly on gas, it’s one of the most reliable cars made, if he can get into a Taurus or Camry he can get in a Prius, the battery is NOT going to wear out, he’s clearly not against owning a Toyota and they are currently a tremendous value since nobody cares about the low price of gas. But of course there is nothing objective about the car selection process for the majority of people.
Well desirability doesn’t really have to do with whether you’ve owned or at least extensively driven cars A,B and C. Desirability is mostly subjective. You want what you want even if it isn’t the most practical choice. So yes counting up the votes does prove which is more desirable among those who voted.
You do have a point though in that many people on the internet are happy to tell you that you should buy X and follow it up with I’d never buy one but you should. In some cases there is a good reason for that since needs vary. IF you tow, haul dirt and building materials ect then a Prius isn’t going to cut it. IF all you use your vehicle for is one or two people and a few bags of groceries are as much cargo as you are gong to carry then a F450 probably isn’t a good choice. In other cases they wouldn’t buy it because it doesn’t project the image they want to project and their biggest concern about their vehicle is the image it projects.
Sure but what we are seeing here is people saying you should buy X but I know nothing about Y and Z so that’s why my vote is for X. Presumably Ed’s dad is not necessarily aiming to make a purchase based on a popularity contest among the market, I have to assume he is no longer in Junior High School. But perhaps I just misunderstood the initial question.
Desirability in this context does not need to have anything to do with subjectivity, one can be perfectly objective about it as well. Do I “desire” a Range Rover? Sure I do, over many other SUV’s, as do many other people. As a rational adult with a finite budget for aquisition, maintenance, and depreciation expenses though that certainly lessens my desire for the Range Rover and all of a sudden a Toyota becomes much more desirable (to me and anyone that I know where their set of financial circumstances is more similar to mine than to LeBron James.
So I guess I still don’t see how a Ford Fusion is necessarily MORE desirable than a Camry or Accord. There’s nothing wrong with discarding the *opinions* that have no explanation attached as to the methodology. We’ll just have to agree to disagree, thankfully nobody is paying us for our time on this.
But whatever, I do understand that it’s just a QOTD and Ed’s dad is unlikely to count the opinions and make his selection based on that. Hopefully we were able to give him a couple more choices to look at that he hadn’t thought of before. I’m looking forward to seeing what he ends up with.
Of course a Fusion is more desirable to Scoutdude than any other brand car. He gets a check with a blue oval on it every month. 🙂
Frankly, I am not a fan of these questions. Everybody just piles in with their inevitably subjective recommendations, like Scoutdude’s.. Might as well ask “what kind of underpants should I buy?” I don’t know; figure it out yourself.
I wouldn’t begin to suggest a car for Ed’s dad. Unless he’s mentally incapacitated, I’m thinking he can well figure it out himself. And then live with his choice, which is the whole problem about recommending a car to anyone.
The one thing I would recommend is avoiding Takata airbags now that they seem to be planning on bankruptcy. Plus they have replaced recalled bags with new bags of the same type, which will also need to be recalled.
The v6 makes camcord much more desirable to me. Plus resale, plus Fords on again off again reliability record would help that too. That said the Fusion is pretty damn nice I would take it over most of the other midsizers just not sure I’d want to own one.
A 2010+ Buick LaCrosse might be worth a look if he wasn’t wowed by that Impala?
+1 Excellent suggestion Very nice inside and out and great build quality.
I want to like it so bad but that high beltline just makes sitting in it unpleasant and messes up the styling, even if the car has nice details. Very lovely interior design though!
I rather like the LaCrosse but not being able to see the hood out in front of me really cools any enthusiasm I have for it. It reminds me of a van which in turn makes me think unluxury thoughts which I shouldn’t be having since they advertise it as a “luxury” car. The XTS suffers from that same problem.
Thats what the confidence package is for; sensors to let you know when you are close enough to the curb.
Since I haven’t got any real experience with any of the cars under consideration, I will defer on picking any particular one, but I do like the CarMax suggestion above. Their extended warranty service has a pretty good reputation, and IMHO it might be worth a few dollars more for the identical vehicle to buy it through them and get a warranty from them.
My only caveat is that my experience with them is some years old, so get more opinions before committing…
The problem with Carmax is location. The closest store is Hartford, which at best, is an hour and a half drive. They’re building one in Albany, which would most likely be easier to get to compared to Hartford, but that is still an hour and a half drive. It might be a good idea to take the trip though, in order for him to experience a lot of different vehicles.
I bought a 2015 C-Max SE new. The ride was BAD. I found it very quick to dart out of the lane when hitting a groove in the road at highway speed. I kicked myself for not going ahead and getting the Fusion Hybrid. I traded the C-Max in with only 6400 miles on it. It was replaced with a 2016 Fusion Energi. Needless to say I could have saved myself the major depreciation if I’d only gone out the door with a Fusion first. I had problem twice with the C-Max with a dead 12 volt battery. And the sound system on the C-Max stopped working once. I LOVE the Fusion.
I have a Focus, which rides on the same platform, and I’ve never thought it was a scary ride on the highway. I’m wondering if the C-Max has skinnier tires? I’ll have to give a C-Max a thorough test drive based on your experience, thanks for sharing.
I will go a little “out there” and ask what about one of the last Grand Marquis? I find them to be a little more expensive than they used to be around here just because there are no new ones, but they are durable and comfortable.
Also, if you said how old your dad is, I missed it. I have found that some older folks like something that sits up a little higher because its easier to get in or out of. The C Max would work here, as would an Escape. I have a friend who bought a C Max and he seems to like it. The bonus when buying used is that they sold horribly so the resale ought to be terrible.
What about a Honda Accord Crosstour? I have never shopped them, but would suspect that their value would be way below other Hondas. Do I sound like a “value shopper”? 🙂
An Accord Crosstour, or its competitor Toyota Venza, could be good choices–based on proven midsize models, higher ride height (Crosstour) or taller body (Venza) make ingress/egress easier, but they’re more “tall hatchwagon” than full CUV. Though, I don’t know if the resale values would be lower because of relative obscurity, or higher due to scarcity.
Other than that, the C-Max could be a good choice, but it is a relatively short wheelbase vehicle and seems like it could be quite choppy over poor road surfaces. Kia Soul would be worth a look as it’s a very similar format to the C-Max as a tall, roomy-ish vehicle with small exterior dimensions. And as sedans go, I’d definitely take a peek at a Hyundai Sonata and/or Kia Optima. Similar bones but the Sonata is the more comfortable/plush option and the Optima is ostensibly a little more driver-oriented (in truth that may only apply to the SX turbo). The full 10/100 warranty doesn’t transfer to the second owner if you go pre-owned but 5/60 of it does, which isn’t bad.
A Grand Marquis would be way too big for our garage and rear wheel drive would limit his ability to travel in winter weather.
As for the Crosstour, a neighbor had one and we would practically point and laugh as it drove by, so I don’t think you’ll see one in our driveway.
Dad is in his late sixties and has bad knees from decades of manual labor which is why I think something like a C-Max would work for him.
“It didn’t wow me “. That admission took me straight to bizarro-world. If I were to ask where the mosh pit is at a Barbara Streisand show, it’d be nearly as strange.
Sounds like your dad keeps cars a while. IMHO, that should rule out any hybrid. If the Taurus’ electrical glitches make him want to kick it down the road, then a couple grand worth of dead battery or other expensive nightmares are potential quagmires.
The 300 is an excellent choice if its a wow factor your dad wants. The Charger definitely takes it up a peg if he has a wild streak and the Challenger is surprisingly comfy and practical as a daily driver if he’s good with a coupe.
The 3.6 is supposedly much more spirited than the old 3.5, but that’s tried and true. If he wants a REAL wow factor…..HEMI. But youll spend over $20k easy for a hemi car. Ive driven the older 5spd automatic cars and the 8spd. The TF-8 is lightyears ahead of the mercedes 5spd in driving experience. Reportedly, it’s much more efficient too.
As John C said, the outgoing Chrysler 200 might be a solid choice. The 6spd auto is well sorted, and either the 3.5 or 3.6 wiil have lots of hustle. A co-worker got a CPO 200 (2014 i think) with the 3.6 for about $15K and she couldn’t be happier.
Why should keeping his cars a long time rule out a hybrid? If anything it should make the hybrid the only choice. Overall they have been proven to be the longer lasting, lower operating cost option compared to the standard version of the same car. My wife’s 2010 Fusion Hybrid went to the crusher, due to an accident, at 143k with all of its original parts other than tires and a headlight bulb.
Escape hybrids and Prius are also known for racking up 300k plus in taxi service again without any thing more than basic maintenance.
Batteries, plain and simple. Batteries’ charge capacity drops off after so many cycles. How many cel phones, cordless tools etc do you go thru in a given period of time? You notice a dramatic loss in run time after a year or two. On a $200 drill its a cheap replacement but on a $20K car… If you have a hour long bumper to bumper commute and you lease a new one, maybe there’s some benefit. But buying something so disposable second hand that’s packed with extra complexity…that has bad news written all over it. The smart move (IF there’s any benefit in having an electric in the first place) is lease it, run it, then kick it down the road to become someone else’s problem the day that lease is up. Again, JMHO. But then again I have about as much need want or desire for an electric car as i have for a truckload of grannie panties. So there’s that.
If you don’t know the difference between how different design batteries work, and the fact that the ones in a hybrid car are profoundly different than in a cell phone or power tool, you really shouldn’t be making comments about this subject. Prius battery packs routinely last 300+k miles, and 15+ years. That’s not hype; that’s reality.
Fact is that the way the traction battery is utilized is far different than in your lap top, cell phone or cordless tool. Plus replacing the traction battery is not that expensive on the popular hybrids. Less than what it would cost to replace many modern transmissions.
But other than the original Prius, Toyota and Ford traction batteries are known to keep on keeping on and even if they are degraded they don’t seem to have any significant effect on performance and economy.
Now if you are talking about a Civic hybrid then yea run away as fast as you can because they are known to be problematic and not even improve mpg that significantly vs the conventional Civic. I’d also say that being cautious with some of the other late comers to the hybrid world isn’t a bad idea as there aren’t enough of them and they haven’t been proven to last 300k like the Ford and Toyota units have.
An EV is not a hybrid and again they don’t utilize the traction battery in the same manner.
It’s likely the Ford, Toyota, & maybe other hybrid batteries are made by a supplier like Panasonic. BTW if you’re worried about a hybrid model’s battery replacement cost, ask the parts dept. We did & were persuaded that even priced around $2K, they last long enough not to be an issue.
We test-drove a Civic Hybrid in 2009; it cost nearly as much as a Prius but got worse MPG, so we got an LX instead. And you can fold the rear seat down for long cargo.
On that era Civic Hybrid there are many that reported the hybrid battery needed to be replaced sometime between 70-100K. Certainly long enough for the 3 year lease crowd but not for me.
Fusion instantly came to mind before I even got into your post. It is everything in 2013-2016 that the 2006 Taurus was not back in 2006. It is a direct replacement for his car, but is competent, decently reliable, and up to date for its times. He’ll probably like it a lot, and honestly in some ways if feels more spacious than the current Taurus.
If your dad is not comfortable with some modern technology, the lower trims will help with price and keep the tech under control.
If he wants to shake things up, Escape and Equinox come to mind pretty readily.
He is obviously not adverse to Japanese brands, another Camry is an easy choice.
Maybe a base Lucerne V6? One of the last cars with a front bench seat.
Maxima from two generations ago?
Last-gen LaCrosse?
2010-12 MKZ?
Early 2000’s Acura RL?
Aurora?
LH New Yorker?
Five Hundred/Montego/Sable/Taurus?
Magnum?
G8?
Aura?
Early 2000’s Passat?
Jetta?
Or if he wants higher clearance:
Town and Country/Grand Caravan?
Outlook/Enclave/Acadia/Traverse?
TrailBlazer/Envoy/Bravada/Rainier?
Explorer/Mountaineer?
Navigator/Expedition?
Rendezvous?
Edge/MKX?
Escape?
Equinox?
SRX?
I’m part of the Fusion brigade. I think they are great: looks are sleek and modern (will look good for years), they drive very nicely, seem to be well made, and are reasonably economical. Just avoid the top-end versions with SYNC/MyFordTouch–the lower trim levels are still very comfortable/loaded but offer a simpler center stack interface.
SYNC and MyFordTouch are two totally separate things. You can get cars with SYNC and without MyFordTouch. SYNC essentially just allows you to pair your phone and use your voice to control it and a few other functions. Plus if you don’t want to use it just don’t touch the SYNC voice control button, everything works just as it would in a car w/o it.
I’ll give a second vote for the Kia Soul – the one we had rented out west was easy to get in and out of, peppy, good on fuel, and as solid and quiet as the proverbial bank vault. I really, really, really liked it. My father in law is 6’8″, in his late sixties, and had no trouble getting in and out of it.
I’d vote for a 2010-2012 Escape Hybird. Proven reliability, durability and relative economy in a reasonably roomy easy to get in and out of package.
Definitely a good suggestion, I’ll have to check those out.
Please take a look at the 2016 Malibu. It gets great reviews. He can easily buy new in his price range and get full warranty, etc. There are a few CPO 2016s out there too at good prices. This is the first one I would look at myself.
I’d go for a bit of a treat and get a 300c or a LaCrosse or an Avalon though I like the previous generation with available wood accent steering wheel better than the current one. To me, the interiors of most mid size base to mid level sedans are boring and uninviting, with too much black and/or metallic trim. Very cheap looking.
If the Impala didn’t “wow” him, I don’t know why a C-Max would. At least the Impala has an inviting interior even if it’s nothing to get too excited about.
I’m a sedan man – 3 of 4 of my cars have been sedans – but I’d sooner take an airy, practical C-Max over an aged Impala. I know Zackman would disagree and I don’t have any real objection to the Impala’s styling inside and out, and I know they are solid used buys, but a C-Max is just a more appealing package.
An Impala is ok, but there are other sedans even that are more ok. However, a 2014+ Epsilon Impala is certainly a nice choice.
I’d take the old W body Impala over a CMax any day, but de gustibus. The later ones with the folding rear seat can hold pretty much anything a CMax can too.
I checked out a loaded 2013 Impala recently and it was nice-even had wood on the wheel. They are certainly nice and if it was a choice between the W body Impala LTZ and the Epsilon Impala LYZ I’d take the Epsilon hands down all day.
The Impala definitely works for a lot of people, but its smooth ride comes at the expense of composure over bumps. Any of the Focus-based vehicles are far more confident with rough pavement and way more willing to take curves at speed.
I had a 2004, and for anything your average mortal would do on a given day, its handling is far more than adequate. I noticed my 300 handles better, but the difference is largely irrelevant because I never plan on using either to do the Nurburgring with either platform. Throwing either into an on ramp at speed led to satisfactory results, not to mention going over bumps. I had a 2004 Deville as a work car at the same time and while the Impala was not near as smooth riding as the Deville it was still decent-over bumps too.
I’m really not a W body Impala apologist. There are reasons why I didn’t get a 2014 or 2015 when looking to replace the 2004, but I just can’t see how a CMax would best the Impala in anything but MPG.
Last year I’ve replaced my 2001 Taurus SE with 2011 MkZephyr Hybrid.
Being in Canada (cars cost more) and not wanting to buy a first year (2013) of the next generation of Lincoln with capacitive touch controls were my primary factors. Actually, I was looking to get 2011 Fusion Hybrid, but MkZephyr come at the right time for only $1,500 more.
What a change when it comes to the fuel economy compare to my old Taurus! But was a bit hard to adjust to a lot smaller trunk and non-folding rear seats.
I wish the MKZ was closer to the price of the Fusion in my area. The asking price is usually several thousand more than for a same year with similar miles. I’d gladly pay and extra $1500 but around here the spread between the hybrid versions is more in the $4-6000 range on a 2012.
Based on the price range and parameters you’ve specified, I would be inclined to echo the calls for a Fusion.
However, a first-generation MKZ would be a nice treat. Simple controls but a lot of features, solid reliability, a comfortable interior and good dynamics. If you want an AWD version, though, fuel economy takes a hit. From memory, the AWD MKZ is as fuel-efficient as an AWD MKS EcoBoost. Speaking of, a 2010-12 MKS EcoBoost would be wonderful – I’d be tempted myself – but avoid the 2010-12 3.7 models because fuel economy is pretty crap. The AWD 3.7 actually gets worse EPA estimates than the EcoBoost AWD. I know MKS EcoBoosts are now available with under 75,000 miles under $20k.
The MKS also has a less hemmed-in interior. I want to like the Taurus and I genuinely like the looks inside and out, but it is very poorly packaged.
When new, those 2000s Lincolns seemed overpriced and ill-suited to battle the Germans, Japanese and Cadillac. When used, they are screaming bargains. So, my recommendations: 2010-12 MKZ or 2010-12 MKS EcoBoost.
I would second William’s recommendations. Had I not went with my 300c I would most likely have had an MKS in my garage.
Plus, if a Fusion is in the running, the MKZ is a better choice-much nicer interior.
Thanks for the response William.
I like the MKZ’s, but all of them up to the 2011 model year are victims of the Takata airbag recall, which is an automatic dealbreaker. At the price point of a 2012 I still think getting a 2013+ Fusion is the better option even if it isn’t as well equipped given the baked in refinement of the CD4 platform. I think a 2013+ MKZ could work though, if the price is right, although even the base models come standard with MyLincolnTouch and I’m not sure he’d like the touch screen.
I really, really love the MKS and MKT with the EcoBoost and think they’re great values on the used car market but they’re just too wide for our garage, making anything above a mid size a tough sell as it would sit outside all winter. He generally keeps his car inside once the weather reliably stays below 45 at night so I don’t think he would change his outlook unless he really enjoyed something and I don’t think the MKS is that car. Of course if we happen to be at a dealer that has one I think I would encourage him to test drive an MKS just to be sure.
My father is in his 70’s and just bought a 2016 loaded Camry last fall. He really likes it so far, comfortable, nice ride, and he likes all the bells and whistles, including the driver assists. On top of that they have a stellar reliability record, and top notch resale. He ended up with a Hybrid version and is getting amazing mileage on top of being quicker and more powerful than the base 4 cylinder. I am sure news would be out of your father’s price range, but a CPO 4-cylinder would probably fall in there. My dad tested all the midsizers and he actually liked the 4 cylinder Accord a little better than the Camry 4 cylinder, but he was set on a Hybrid and the Toyota dealer was far more willing to deal than Honda.
On the C-Max, you might want to look at the reliability record. My CR shows it as having a terrible reliability track record. We also have a mostly Ford fleet at work, including Taurus’ and Fusions. I find the door openings are very small and I would think that someone who is less mobile may have difficulty getting in and out. I am pretty tall and I feel like I have to fold in half to get in the car. Visibility is also awful. I am not a fan of the current gen Taurus, and in that class would go Avalon or Impala (latest generation) if you had to buy American. Even though antiquated, I almost preferred our old 3rd and 4th gen Taurus’ to these new Taurus’.
You say that Dad likes to browse Craigslist for cars in the 5000 dollar range, he’d go for a wagon and his hips aren’t great. A Chevy HHR might work for him. The chair high seats are very good and it gets high 20’s for gas mileage. They aren’t usually thought of as a wagon but that is just what they are. The newest models are 2011 so the price should be good. Styling is a love it or hate it but the older folks tend to like them more than the young. Best of luck to Dad.
I’m not sure why people fear RWD in winter. Even with Canadian winters, my family still did fine with an old Cutlass Supreme. Get good winter tires and drive like it’s actually winter, and no problems. But each to their own, right?
If I were normal, I’d echo what’s been said above, Fusions, Souls, etc. But I’m not normal, so… Lexus LS460. Class, comfort, and Toyota’s reputation for reliability.
An LS is a fine car, a very smooth and powerful ride. It’s like a 60s LeBaron/Continental/Fleetwood for the 2010’s.
+2. Hard to argue with an LS460. Common issues are few and far between (and it seems like they are all avoided by going with a 2011+).
I think too expensive, but does avoid the Takata airbag problem.
Depreciation on luxury cars would push it into price range; a 10-15 year old LS in Canada can go for under $20,000, and prices are usually higher in Canada. It’ll for sure be older then standard mid-size cars, but that’s where Toyota reliability comes in, and top models should be low mileage and will looked after.
The Takata recall is popular this post, mentioned alot. Just got my recall notice this week. Avoid Acuras if you’re concerned.
I have a Cadillac, not the Escalade, which is on the list. To be clear, Escalades have takata’s, but the CTS does not. Newer Escalades perhaps not.
Haha! An objective recommendation about a relatively recent model…nevermind that I inhabit a completely different market, I couldn’t even guess.
Has your father emphatically ruled out the Armstrong-Siddeley 346 Sapphire?
Why not a step back to the 2008-2009 Taurus/Sable? These added the only things lacking in the 500/Montego to make it a good diver (a bigger more powerful engine and non CVT transmission)
Unlike the current Taurus with its wide @$$ center console that makes you feel like you are in a canoe, the 08-09 taurus/Sable have gobs of room. my folks bought a 1993 taurus in 1993 and replaced it in 2009 with a 2009 Taurus (they also have a 2003 sable wagon)
That 2009 Taurus has been trouble free from day one and is very nice to drive and rid in. Unlike the current model, the 80-09 gives you excellent visibility. Leg room is excellent in the front and back and it is very easy to get in and out of it. my mom has knee issues and she is able to easily get in and out of the Taurus easy (much easier then out of the 2003 Sable) If your father is able to get in and out of the 2006 with ease then a 2008-2009 Taurus/Sable will be even easier
Best of all you can find a low mileage 08-09 Taurus/Sable for very cheap.
Kia and Hyundai products are made very well now. I had a 2010 Kia Forte for a little bit of time and during the same time, i was also driving around in provided 2010 Corolla and to me the Forte felt better made.
Unless you are going to keep the car only 2 or 3 years and then trade it in, there is no reason to buy a Toyota or Honda over another car brand as they are not any more reliable then say a Fusion or a Sonata(despite what Toyota diehards may claim). If you buy a Fusion or a Sonata, you will most likely get years and years of reliable service. Now if you are planning on trading in the car with in the first few years that a Toyo or Honda product will get the best trade value But if you are planning on keeping the car for decades then resale value is no longer a factor. Case in point my folks buy a car brand new and drive the car until the wheels fall off and get a new car every 15 or 20 years by that time no car is going to have a really high book value for a trade
I think the ’08-09 Taurus, Taurus X and Sable are very underrated cars, with spacious interiors, great visibility and pleasant if rather anodyne styling. Alas, Edward mentioned these D3 cars are too wide for their garage.
I will third it to a kia soul. I have recommended it to a couple of older friends and as long as you get the model with the 2.0l engine I think he will find the power sufficient.
both sets of friends have problems getting in and out of vehicles and are very happy.
also (can’t resist the pun) they have a lot more “soul” to them than a Taurus or Camry and he might get a kick out of that!
+1. They’re not the fastest cars on the block, but they have good space-efficient packaging, they’re narrow, and (most importantly) they’re easy to get in and out of. No bending up or down–just slide across. The styling is unique, but not so “edgy” as to turn off buyers who might like older styling.
When my parents bought their Sonata, my sister opined they really should have bought a small crossover because it would have been easier to get in and out of. It’s a solid point, and that’s why I ended up recommending a small crossover to a 70-something year-old I know. She got a great lease deal on an Encore and she is very happy.
Some enthusiasts want to criticise crossovers but they sure have their upsides.
I think one factor in the crossover market is the ease of entry/exit as well as the taller body allowing for more upright seating, which also aids the entry/exit. My 2007 SRX was easier to get into and out of than the 2013 ATS.
A 302-hp Impala Limited? Is that for real?
the Impala Limited was the previous generation Impala, not the current gen. I think the V6 was available. My CTS likes to get into 6th gear as quickly as possible, but opening the throttle will produce a down shift to 3rd or 4th, but I have a RWD 6 speed, not the FWD 6 speed.
The Limited was limited to rental, fleet and police markets.
Just to add, this Oct [2016] is the 10th anniv of the last mid size Taurus being built. Ford did a short 2007 model run for a few months, and closed the Atlanta plant.
That is correct, most people think that the Taurus died in 2005 and was reborn in 2008 leaving a 3 year absence but the Ford Taurus was made for the 2006 and 2007 model years for fleets. So there was no break in years the Taurus was made
Now you can find the 2006 and 2007 on the lots of Carmax
I have to say I’m not exactly “wowed” by my 2013 Impala either but it is a very competent car and has been very reliable and suites my needs very well. All 2012 on up Impala’s have the 300 HP 3.6 LFX engine in regular and flex fuel versions. Note that the W-body cars do not have electric power steering and that is probably why they steer better than many newer cars with electric steering. This car’s mechanical simplicity is a huge plus to me with far less things to go wrong and a tried and true design if many years. It’s very easy to get in and out of, the seats are all day comfortable, the trunk roomy and gas mileage is great on the open road and comparable to some 4 cylinder mid sizers I have rented.
It’s interesting to read some of the comments on various sites that say this car doesn’t feel like 300 horses. Some of that could be the low 244:1 final drive gears used. Some of it could be the transmission which takes time to “adapt” to the driver’s style and throttle inputs and much of it is the break in of the engine which felt very tight and not nearly as lively as it does with 52K miles now on the clock. In normal driving it is as docile and easy going as most any 4 cylinder but with a stronger torque feel. Mash the pedal down and it turns into a beast and will soar up to illegal speeds in a big hurry. Put in performance mode and it’s even quicker still feeling even stronger off the line and holding the RPM’s longer. I have surprised many a sports car with this sleeper sedan and power is better than any 4 cylinder or 4 cylinder turbo I have rented Including Fusions with the 2.0T or the Sonata with the same mill type.
I can totally see the comments about 300 HP in that car not feeling “fast”. I don’t have experience with the Impala directly, but I had the same engine in a slightly different tune (323 HP 3.6 V6) in a 2013 Camaro I rented for a week. While it certainly wasn’t slow, the “butt dyno” didn’t register it as all that fast either. In fact it didn’t feel as fast as the Marauder I used to have, despite listed 0-60 times of about a half second faster. (Some of that may have had to do with torque; the Marauder had 40+ lb-ft of torque on the Camaro and the weight was very similar.) And I can only assume the gearing was less conservative in that application–2.44:1 is way tall.
Of course an Impala Limited is significantly lighter than a Camaro convertible (wrap your head around that one!) which could go some way toward making up for the gearing.
If the starting point’s 2006 Taurus, the bar isn’t set very high, is it? I never owned a Taurus of that generation, but driven quite a few from rental companies. I did owned a 1994 Mercury Sable station wagon. I was surprised how the mid 2000s Taurus was built so cheaply as compare to Sable of previous generation.
Charger/300 are great choices if he wants a big cushy sedan with lots of sporty character, and there are always great deals on Chrysler products. My dad was born in 1948 and needed to buy a car to supplant his aging ’95 Cutlass Supreme in 2011. We looked at Camry, Accord, Fusion, Optima, and Sonata and when he drove the Charger, he said, this is the first car that is FUN. The redundant stereo/hvac controls are easy to use and reliable. The people I know who have them love them. It’s a much more solid feeling car than the FWD equivalents and much sportier.
For ease of entry/exit the Caravan/Journey and Town and Country are great cars and with a little haggling he can get a new Caravan for around 19 and a new Journey even less. They’re very nice, solid cars that drive well and have lots of space for Dad activities. A plushy Town and Country leftover might be around 25. My brother and sister in law bought a loaded one for that much, new.
If your buying used I always look for cars with average to better then average reliability and bad resale.
Mitsubishi Outlander
Mitsubishi Outlander sport
Nissan cube
Chevy HHR
Suzuki Kizashi
and one with OK resale
Toyota Venza
I like the looks of the Kizashi and I remember reading positive reviews of them, but with Suzuki automobiles having been withdrawn from the US market, I tend to wonder if parts/service will become difficult to nonexistent.
He should try a Chrysler 200 Limited or a Dodge Avenger RT. Make sure it has the V6! Practically given away used, and the rip-roaring 295HP Pentastar engine turns the relatively light car into a rocket! The 200 is the luxury model, the Avenger sportier…if it matters, I have never seen a Limited without a sunroof.
Avoid the base models with the 2.4 four…the engine is not enough, and the old 4 speed transaxle means it actually uses just as much gas as the Pentastar!