(first posted 11/13/2014) Until 1984, the phrase ‘luxury car’ was largely used to described two very different types of vehicles in North America. The first was the traditional American luxury car, coming mainly from Cadillac and Lincoln. Predominately rear-wheel drive and V8-powered, these cars featured upright styling, soft suspensions, and touches including vinyl roofs, wire wheels, and loose-pillow style seating.
The other type of vehicle it described was the imported European sports sedan, from makes including BMW and Mercedes-Benz. These cars were also predominately rear-wheel drive, but generally smaller, better handling, and more aerodynamically styled. There was less ostentation and a more purposeful environment. In spite of this, these cars still offered comparable luxury features to the American luxury car.
The former definition would experience a bit of a shakeup in 1985, with a new wave of downsized, front-wheel drive Cadillacs. Although they were smaller, their other distinctive features survived the liposuction. While the marketplace was dramatically changed by these more svelte American luxury cars, a far greater shockwave would hit the segment in 1986, resulting in a third distinctive type of luxury car – the Japanese luxury car.
Back in 1981, the Japanese government entered a voluntary agreement with the United States, which restricted the amount of Japanese cars exported to the United States. Created in order to ease pressure on the American automobile industry, it was only supposed to last three years, however the U.S. government extended it, ultimately through 1994. Japanese automakers would eventually open up their own plants on U.S. soil, but until then, the most logical action was building larger, more luxurious, and higher-margin cars, and exporting them to the United States.
It was at this same time in the early-1980s, that Honda was looking to add a more luxurious, more expensive car to its portfolio in the U.S. Their core customer base of young professionals was becoming more successful. With nothing above the Accord, these consumers looking to trade up were moving on to brands like Volvo, Saab, Audi, and even BMW and Mercedes. And so, the Legend was born.
Internally codenamed “HX”, the eventual Legend would be larger and more luxurious than the Accord. It would be the first Honda ever with a V6 engine, a fuel-injected 24-valve 2.5-liter, making 151 horsepower at 6500 rpm. Engineers set out to build a sedan that provided responsive handling and while maintaining a softer ride than many of its European competitors. Its double-wishbone independent suspension, rigid unit body, speed-sensitive steering feel, and four-wheel disc brakes would help accomplish this.
While some were quick to write off the car due to its lack of rear-wheel drive, Honda had proved that front-wheel drive could offer an entertaining driving experience. Arguably the best builder of front-wheel drive cars, it was only natural for Honda to exploit this strength, making its first luxury sedan front-wheel drive.
While the vision was clear, the large and expensive HX immediately posed a problem for Honda that is not unlike the issue faced today by Hyundai with the Genesis and Equus. In North America, Honda quickly built a reputation for building cars that were reliable, efficient, fun-to-drive, as well as small and cheap. With a planned retail price nearly double that of a base model Accord, Honda’s new flagship would be horribly out of place among small, modest, and inexpensive Civics and Accords.
It was thus decided that the HX would be sold under an entirely new premium brand, ultimately named Acura. When deciding what to call its new luxury brand, Honda turned to the San Francisco-base agency, NameLab, for guidance. They settled upon “Acura”, derived from the phonetic segment “acu”, meaning accuracy. Further setting itself apart from regular Hondas, Acura would have its own separate dealerships offering an enhanced level of customer service and attention. Sixty new dealerships were set up in 18 states, strategically located around major East and West Coast cities.
Naturally, the exterior design of the technologically advanced HX would be modern. Although it may not seem overly groundbreaking by today’s standards, in 1986, the Legend was one of the most sleek and aerodynamic luxury sedans on the market. Its wedge-shaped profile, with rakish windshields, aircraft-style doors, flush glass and door handles were all very similar in style to the third-generation Accord that would be released just a few months earlier.
(JDM Honda Legend interior; virtually identical to the NA-spec Legend, sans right-hand drive)
When it came to the interior of the car, designers replicated the excellence of smaller Hondas’ functional layout and quality fit-and-finish. Its look eschewed ostentation in favor of the simple elegance that buyers had come to expect from Honda and other Japanese cars. Contoured, heavily bolstered front buckets offered a “just right” blend of cushiness and support.
Acura’s luxury sedan would raise the bar when it came to the level of standard equipment it offered. Included in this long list were features like luxury moquette upholstery, air conditioning, cruise control, power windows and locks, triple-layer door seals, illuminated entry, map and reading lights, push button HVAC controls, bronze-tinted glass, 15-inch alloy wheels, premium sound system, rear center armrest, and adjustable rear headrests, to name just a few. The only extra-cost options were a power sunroof and a “luxury option package” that consisted of leather upholstery, 4-way power driver’s seat, heated side mirrors, and illuminated vanity mirrors.
The HX car would ultimately be christened as the Legend, with the full name “Legend Touring Sedan” used in marketing materials. The Legend was introduced in Japan in late-1985 as the Honda Legend, and officially went on sale March 27, 1986 with the smaller Integra as part of the roll out of the Acura brand in the U.S. Promoted as “Precision Crafted Automobiles”, Acura emphasized virtues such as quality, value, technology, and driving experience, qualities that were not simultaneously advertised by its German and American competitors.
Acura was an instant success, selling over 52,000 units in its inaugural year. The distribution of sales was approximately 50/50 Legend/Integra, signifying success with both lines. Within its first year of operation, Acura’s dealer network had expanded to 150 dealerships in 36 states, with that number of dealerships nearly doubling by the end of the decade. By 1987, Acura had become the best-selling luxury import brand in the United States, and placed first in the J.D. Power’s Customer Satisfaction Index Survey, garnering the highest score ever. In 1988, the Legend became the best-selling luxury import nameplate in the U.S., a title it would hold for six consecutive years.
I first spotted this 1989 Legend LS several weeks ago, as I was leaving the dry cleaners. Needless to say, I was elated. I can’t remember the last time I saw a first generation Legend sedan, let alone one that externally, was in about as fine condition as my 21-year newer Acura. Unfortunately, the vegetation in front of it and the closeness of the other parked cars prevented me from taking any pictures of the front. This matter was rather irksome to me, as part of the satisfaction I get from writing a CC is showcasing an interesting car I found. Yet by the sheer grace of some divine power (and my need to take a trip to the packy after a long day), I spotted the same Legend, this time parked in a more photogenic position.
By 1989, the Legend had received a few updates, both cosmetically and mechanically. In 1987, the Legend coupe was introduced, wearing all unique sheet metal. I spotted this white Legend coupe when I was in San Francisco last summer.
The 1987 Legend sedan now offered three trim levels: a base model that was equipped the same as a base ’86 Legend, the Legend L which included the contents of the luxury option package, and the Legend LS that added a premium Bose sound system to the L’s equipment.
1988 saw the replacement of the 2.5L V6 with a 2.7L adding variable length intake manifold and an incremental increase in horsepower to 161. Anti-lock brakes and a 10-way power driver’s seat were added to L and LS models, while LS models also gained automatic climate control, driver’s airbag, and a digital info center.
The most significant changes to the first generation Legend occurred in 1989. The exterior was refreshed with a new grille, hood, trunk lid, bumpers, taillights, and the one-piece composite headlights that were standard on Japanese-spec Legends since 1985.
Inside, the dash, center console, and door panels also received a minor redesign. A driver’s side airbag was now standard on all models, and LS models received a standard 4-way passenger’s seat. Available real wood trim added a bit of warmth and traditional flair to the Legend’s interior environment.
Changes for the 1990 Legend sedan were limited to standard burled walnut trim in the LS, and body colored side mirrors on all Legends, as an all new Legend coupe and sedan were being readied for 1991. With the success of this generation, Acura would push the next Legend further upmarket, increasing size, performance, luxury, and style.
Related Reading:
Was this the Honda that became the Rover Sterling?It looks familiar yet I’m pretty sure Acura was never sold in the UK til fairly recently
Yes, it was jointly developed with British Leyland who need a replacement for Rover SD1 while Honda need a larger luxury car for the lucrative US market and to compete with domestic luxury cars in Japan.
Both Legend and Sterling had common chassis but their own exterior and interior design. British Leyland provided four-cylinder motors and most of electrical system while Honda provided V6 motors for the UK assembly.
Unfortunately, many of UK-built Legend had quality issues that didn’t pass Honda’s quality control so few were sold and registered in the UK.
ateupwithmotor just published an excellent (as always) article on the co-development of the Legend and Sterling.
http://ateupwithmotor.com/model-histories/acura-legend-rover-800-sterling/
My uncle bought a Sterling for cheap in the late ’90s from a neighbor; he thought he was getting a good deal, as it was “the same as an Acura”, right? Needless to say, the Lucas electrical parts quickly reminded him otherwise…
Thanks,I had the other Rover/Honda the 214/216 for a hire car from work.Those were pretty good,for some inexplicable reason they were replaced with horrible Montegos(BL not Mercury)
I can remember when these first came out – they weren’t quite the revelation that the original Accord was, but they did cause quite an impact, As with the Accord, its major attraction was its jewel-like assembly quality – leagues above anything from Detroit and matching, if not surpassing, the European luxury makes.
Acura still makes some nice cars today, but in my view is hindered by mundane styling. Hoping that the new NSX, which looks like it will be a revelation, will reinvigorate the whole line.
That NSX will be killer, when they release it……..in 2050…..no wait, it was pushed back again to 2054.
Aside from the 2.7-liter engine, the biggest mechanical change in the later Legend sedans was the new double wishbone rear suspension. The early sedans had rear struts, which was a compromise with Rover. Honda was never really satisfied with that, so the coupe got a double wishbone layout like the Accord’s, which was added to the sedans for ’89. (The coupe also had the C27A engine from the start; the bigger engine was introduced there.)
As Gem and Oliver note, the HX was developed in collaboration with Rover, which offered its own version (codenamed XX) as the Rover 800, sold here as the ill-fated Sterling 800. The joint project was allegedly Rover’s idea — Rover was already offering some locally assembled Honda Ballades — although I suspect Honda would have done something like this anyway, Rover or no.
The Legend’s success was largely in the U.S. It was never taken very seriously in Europe and was at best a minor player in Japan. Its big problem in Europe and the U.K., aside from being Japanese, was that it wasn’t cheaper than a 5-Series BMW or E-Class Mercedes as it was here. The 800 had the same problem, which hurt it pretty badly.
The Honda Legend, Toyota Camry and Nissan Maxima have all been withdrawn from the European market. And the mainstream European car makers have all stopped building this kind of E-segment sedans in the past years. Which leaves almost the complete market to you-know-who.
Boy, I love these, I don’t get all the FWD disrespect they got. No torque steer, with great tracking. I own two rear drive Lexi, but jeese, these are very competent with a tight body. The engine is beyond reproach, though the auto trans wasn’t quite great. They have marvelous ergonomics, awsome gauges, great Alpine/Bose in the LS audio system and a frigid electronic climate control. Besides the auto box, my only complaint is they are a tad loud on the interstates. For the money, they are great. The 2nd generation coupe was near the SC300 in goodness, and priced less, and could be had with a six speed manual.
And yes, there were the sedan version Sterlings 825/827, with tragic Lucas? electronics.
The cars back then didn’t make enough power to have significant torque steer. The 04MY Acura TL did and had torque steer like crazy.
I owned a ’90 Legend coupe, 5-speed. And oh yes it did torque steer, BADLY. And not all of the slushbox gears had synchros either, making this a poor competitor to the German marques. I traded it for a ’96 A-4 Audi.
Having said that, Honda/Acura did a good job of executing a very desirable coupe design, stealing some greenhouse & taillight ideas from BMW’s 635, without totally mimicking the 6-Series. The character lines above the wheel wells worked well.
Your timing is remarkable — only two days ago, I jogged past a first generation Legend parked on the street and was tempted to take photos and do a write-up just like what you have done here.
The first and second generation Legends are cars that I had a lot of experience with as a passenger and occasional driver, because my father owned one of each. They marked the complete end of domestic car ownership in my family, because my father bought only Japanese cars during the 1980s while holding out the idea of buying an Oldsmobile 88 — his aspirational car during the 1960s and 1970s — and when the Legend arrived he bought one instead in 1988 and never looked back. The Legend served the same role for him as an Olds 88 would have: it was an upscale car that was not too upscale and snobby, like a Cadillac or Lexus. Just like Olds 88s over the years, those Legends were very smooth and comfortable cars in every way (powertrain, ride, interior accommodations) at a reasonable price, and their success was well earned.
Funny that you should liken the 80’s Acura Legend to an Oldsmobile. Until about the late 90’s, I paid very little attention to Japanese cars. I never understood Acura at all.
Lexus and Infiniti were obviously supposed to be luxury cars and they looked it. The styling also looked different enough from Toyotas and Nissans that I could never remember which brand they belonged to.
Acuras, on the other hand, still looked like Hondas to me. My impression was that Acura was to Honda as Oldsmobile is to Chevy, while the others (Infiniti/Nissan and Lexus/Toyota) were like Cadillac versus Chevy. You’d have to actually compare vehicle specs to see otherwise.
One thing that also helped with the brand association was that the Acura logo looks like a Honda logo that’s been pinched in at the top, while Infiniti and Lexus logos are quite different from Nissan and Toyota logos.
I had the opportunity to park my ’89 Accord LXi beside an ’89 Acura. Sizewise, there was no appreciable difference, and only minor details lookswise; however, the rear windows DID roll down, a plus! To me, it was just a High $$$ Honda…and yet, I lusted for one for years, just never found the right one w/ a manual!:-)
Sizewise, there was no appreciable difference
The ’89 Accord had a 102.4″ wb, and was 174.8″ long.
The Legend had a 108.7″ wb and was 190.6″ long.
That seems like quite an appreciable difference. And if you’ve ever sat in them both, it would really be apparent.
Ahh, how the “golden glow of memory” fades with the passage of time! One of the GREAT things I like about this site. Someone will always provide factual information to correct the “remembered” info!
🙂
Or perhaps more acurately, Acura was to Honda like Audi was to VW.
I agree, that is probably an even better analogy. In looks at least, Audi hadn’t really done much to differentiate itself from VW at the time either.
You could even make that argument today. There is more differentiation between the two, but you can still see a lot of resemblance between their car lines.
I wonder why Lincoln gets dumped on for being a gussied-up mass market car when ultra-chic Audi is exactly the same thing…
I’m not sure that’s the best analogy. The VW and Audi brands, and their relationship to one another, are pretty much what they were in the 80s. It’s not clear what Acura stands for today, nor Honda for that matter. Maybe Chevy and Oldsmobile would be better examples.
+1. We don’t have Accura here – everything we have is Honda-badged, including the current Legend. But regardless of that, the situation is the same here: it isn’t clear what Honda stands for. In the 80s and 90s it was a top-selling brand but nowadays seems overshadoweds by everything else.
I mean Honda used to signify beautifully engineered and well-built trend-setting front-drivers with excellent (and often overt) sporting overtones, but Mazda owns that market now.
The Honda-apathy (Hondapathy?) even affects the Honda fanbois – Honda’s competitors’ fanbois seem willing to embrace and move up to newer models from their fave manufacturer, whereas Honda fanbois are still driving their Integras and older Civics, they aren’t embracing newer models.
I grew up through the late 70s/80s surrounded by Hondas as Dad was a Honda dealer mechanic. It was so obvious then what made Honda different, and what made a Honda a Honda. Nowadays, who knows? It’s not that I dislike the current models, it’s that they’re invisible, I never think of them.
Good points, NZ Skyliner. When the fanbois don’t embrace the new model, you should know you’re doing something wrong. Honda has brought in massive price cuts to the Civic, but you still don’t see many new ones around.
But it’s not only Honda which has lost its way. Do you see many new Subarus in your country? They also seem to have dropped the ball and lost their distinctiveness – and with it, much of their appeal.
Chevrolet and Oldsmobile seem like reasonable parallels, honestly; or if you prefer, Oldsmobile and Buick.
To Scott’s point, I think Honda to some extent has been boxed in by its own past marketing. For example, Honda pushed the advantages of double wishbones over struts for years and years, so when they finally gave up and went to front struts like much of the rest of the industry, it just looked like resignation.
There was a prevailing feeling among senior Honda executives even by the mid-90s that the company was spending way too much trying to put their unique engineering stamp on things in ways that didn’t matter to mainstream customers. When the Japanese economy cooled off, that became hard to afford, so there’s been this ongoing retrenchment.
+1 right back at you NZ Skyliner for this: “I mean Honda used to signify beautifully engineered and well-built trend-setting front-drivers with excellent (and often overt) sporting overtones, but Mazda owns that market now.”
Mazda is really trying hard. They are facelifting the 6 after just 18 months. That typically doesn’t happen until year 4 of a 5 year cycle.
I agree with the comment about how Subaru has gone a bit generic with their designs. The cars are selling great though which goes to show how hungry Americans are for something different. The flat engine configuration helps keep the brand genuine and unique.
Old Pete: Subarus still sell well here, especially the Legacy/Outback wagons. We’re an outdoorsy nation with expensive fuel who likes carrying dogs, skies and kayaks whilst towing boats and caravans, so a mid-size 4WD wagon is the perfect Kiwi vehicle – and the sole 4WD entry in the mid-price segment of the market.
My parents are the typcial Kiwi Subaruists: they recently bought their 4th Subaru station wagon, a 2010 Outback, in 18 years. It continues Subaru’s unique combination of caravan-towing ability and good fuel economy, and is still quirky/distinctive (ugly?!) enough. Dropping some of the quirkiness was actually good – my folks weren’t sure on the ’10’s framed door windows versus their previous Subarus’ frameless glass, but once I explained how it allowed for bigger rear door openings so Dad wouldn’t bang his head any more when getting in, they understood and approved.
Having said that, Subarus aren’t as popular new as the Mazda6, but the Mazda6 is mainly bought as fleet fodder (albeit excellent fleet fodder!), whereas the Legacy/Outback is primarily bought by private purchasers. The Subarus thus tend to hold their value much better. Like all Japanese makes, they are affected by the large number of used JDM imports coming in, but rather than devalue the NZ-new ones (as happens with other makes), it makes the NZ-new ones even more sought after.
Aaron: good point re the marketing. Another thing Honda prided themselves on for years was the low, low belt line, and how they engineered the suspension and canted the engine to allow for this superb visibility. Not to mention using LJK Setright for NZ market TV ads – he added an air of intelligence and mystique. Things like the double-wishbones may not have mattered in a tangible way, but they contributed to Honda’s broader brand definition; there was less “me too” about the whole that was Honda.
calibrick: interesting point re the Mazda6. The previous generations were perfect in size and execution for we Kiwis and perfectly filled Honda’s former segment. But, now that Mazda’s making the American market the 6’s priority, the popular hatchback has died, and although gorgeous, the sedan has gotten enormous and doesn’t really espouse zoom-zoom any more. Thankfully the wagon is built on a shorter wheelbase, so still meets the zoom-zoom ethos.
Although Mazda now owns Honda’s old market, they got there by building perfectly-judged vehicles. The larding-up of the 6 sedan should be a warning sign to them not to lose that.
Keep in mind that the Acura was the first Japanese luxury car in the US. The standard was changed (and set) when the big Lexus arrived.
Honda only accepted the idea of branding the Legend as something other than a Honda (which was suggested by an American executive) very reluctantly. The HX was supposed to be the flagship Honda as the Crown was the flagship Toyota and the Cedric was the flagship Nissan. (Yes, Toyota and Nissan had the Century and President as well, but those were more like Series 75 Cadillac limousines.) Branding the Legend differently was sort of an 10th- or 11th-hour addition to the plan.
I’ve been having trouble with comments not posting, I tried to ask the hypothetical yesterday “how would things have been different if these were sold as Hondas instead of inventing the Acura brand?” It seems like Acura worked for a while (did they do decent volume in the 80/90s?) but now it seems to be more of a distraction, and it would seem these days a ‘senior Honda’ would probably work better.
it would seem these days a ‘senior Honda’ would probably work better.
I don’t think so. Acura’s premium CUVs (MDX, RDX) sell very well, and undoubtedly Acura is still quite profitable. Folks that are willing to pay more for an Acura do so because it’s still a premium brand, and that includes the premium dealership experience.
I realize that Acura has been struggling with its sedans, but the market is shifting ever more to CUVs, and they do quite well with them. They would be missing out of some important high-margin business if they didn’t have them (and the Acura brand).
I’m not sure where it’s going long-term, but Acura still has a strong brand equity and loyal customers from decades of building mostly trouble-free cars. That keeps folks coming back, and realistically, most Legend drivers from back then would probably prefer an MDX anyway today.
That’s fair enough, it’s hard to have the same perspective when Acura just isn’t a realistic proposition for Honda. Last year (2013) they apparently sold 8 Legends here!
I agree with what Paul has to say, especially about their CUVs. The RDX and MDX are immensely popular, and CUVs are where the overall automobile industry is headed (CUVs are more popular than mid-size sedans here now).
This is likely the reason that Infiniti sales have never come close to Acura’s, despite having RWD sedans. They have no competitive small CUV, and only recently have they come out with an MDX competitor, the JX/QX60, which both sales and reviews haven’t been too stellar.
Especially in the case of the MDX, it visually looks and feels like no Honda product. I had the fortune of driving a 2014 SH-AWD model earlier this year, and I can say with confidence, that in sport mode, it drives as close to a large sports sedan as a CUV can. Body roll was noticeably less compared to the BMW and Mercedes CUVs my mother has owned.
The MDX is really the true Legend successor, not the RLX. It offers comparable levels of luxury and an enhanced driving experience, plus the added height and versatility that buyers seem to prefer these days.
As for Honda selling only 8 Legends in 2013, that’s because the fourth generation ended with the 2012 model year in anticipation of the RLX-based 2014. Those 8 must have been leftover 2013s.
I’m not sure Brendan, they were still selling them in 2014 whe it was announced Australia wouldnt get the new model. In any case when the 4th gen was introduced in 2006 they only sold 400 which was its best year. The 1st gen MDX was sold here too badged as a Honda, not in large numbers as it was not a particularly compelling product compared to the competition, and they didnt bring the current model of that here either. We never got the RDX though.
“which is still available in small numbers despite production ending in 2012”
http://www.caradvice.com.au/286482/honda-legend-no-new-model-for-australia/
A “2013 Legend” for sale, listed as a model year 2012
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/Honda/Legend/2013
Ok then. Still selling less than 400 cars a year must have been a pretty marginal proposition at best. Perhaps wearing an Acura badge would have made it more palatable to part with $76k for the car?
I’ll add my 2c worth to the discussion. Given Honda’s premium reputation in New Zealand in the 1980s and 90s, selling the Legend here as a ‘senior Honda’ (rather than create an Acura brand) was a natural extension of the brand in the 80s/early 90s. However, as the 90s progressed, the price gap between top-spec Accord and Legend grew to a point where it was too great. The Legend didn’t seem tangibly different enough in size or style to justify the gap. I believe that played a large part in the Legend being withdrawn from our market in 2008/9ish (although the used-JDM imports continue). Would it have been more palatable badged as an Acura? Probably not, as it’d have suffered the same fate as Lexus: being devalued by parent-company-badged used-JDM imports that offered a much wider variety of spec options at lower prices.
Using Lexus as a comparison, it has existed here since inception, but as more and more Toyota-badged Lexii have arrived here over the past decade, Lexus as a brand has slipped in the public consciousness, and thus in sales. ‘Toyota Altezza’ has much more cachet here than ‘Lexus IS’. Conversely this means Toyota is perhaps thought of more highly here than in other world markets, as we have a great variety of luxury/sports RWD JDM Toyota sedans available.
Although an Acura brand could have worked here back in the day with a full range of models, it’s unlikely it would now as that lack of a tangible USP would handicap it too much. If it was here it’d be Honda’s irrelevant older sibling. Kind of like Lincoln is to Ford… (Just stirring there!)
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, my Traditionalist generation parents would’ve taken exception with the statement that the European cars of the day “still offered comparable luxury features to the American luxury car.”
To me, there’s nothing like the Mercedes of that era; as the car magazines of the day frequently quipped, it was as thought they were carved out of a single billet of steel. But my folks? “The ride is too firm – you can feel the road.” “The seats are too hard.” “The interior is cramped.” “There’s no lighted vanity mirror.”
Funny how even the European cars now offer level of gadgetry comparable to American cars – cup holders and all. But then, even the cheapest of vehicles today has all of the gadgets of a 1980 Cadillac Fleetwood, and then some.
I have an ’88 that’s been in the family since new. At 262,000 miles, the engine isn’t showing any signs of slowing down.
Have you had to replace the transmission yet?
I bet you get an offer or two for the car once in a while.
I get plenty of offers!
Original transmission. I do a drain & fill plus clean the transmission solenoids annually. Shifts smoothly. At 300k miles, I plan to have the engine and transmission rebuilt by Mahdavi Motorsports in Atlanta. I’ll also have them tweek the suspension.
Great write up Brendan. You’re making we want to write up the Rover 800 soon, while stocks last.
One thing you missed is the origin of the wheelarch blisters on the Legend. These were needed as the engine /transmission came out .35inch wider than expected, so the blisters were needed unless the whole side of the car was reshaped.
Rover had the same issue of course, and reshaped the sides losing time, but being financially compensated by Honda.
As I just said to Paul via email, I think this story is a conflation of two different things: the engine issue (about which Rover engineers were still complaining when the 800 was launched) and Honda’s approach to styling the different versions of the Legend.
The fender flares were not present on all Legend sedans, of which there were several distinct versions: the senior and export models, which had 5 mph bumpers and flared fenders, and the lesser Japanese grades, which had narrower front fenders, smaller bumpers, and a 2-liter V-6 to keep the Legend within a cheaper tax band. Width and track dimensions work out like this:
KA1 (JDM 2-liter, 1985 to 1988): Track: 1,480/1,460mm, overall width: 1,695mm
KA2/KA5 (JDM and export 2.5- and 2.7-liter sedans): Track: 1,490/1,450mm, overall width: 1,735mm
KA5 (JDM 2-liter, 1988 to 1990, 15-inch wheels): Track: 1,475/1,455mm, overall width: 1,695mm
Pre-facelift 800: Track: 1,490/1,450mm, overall width: 1,730mm
All shared the same inner shell.
It was very common for Japanese cars in this class to have slightly wider fenders or more pronounced wheel arch moldings on senior grades whose engine size alone would put them into the higher tax bracket. So, that part Honda would certainly have done anyway.
Realizing I made a typo here: the 2.5 sedan was KA2, the pre-facelift 2.7 was K4, and the facelifted 2.7 was the KA6.
I’ve spent some time looking into this claim, and discussed it with Aaron at AteUpWithMotor. First off, there were fender blisters on the Honda HX design concpet, so the claim that the blisters were added for this reason can’t be true in its own right. It’s apparently true that the engine was a bit wider in its final design that initially planned for. That did require some redesign work by Hon
I’m quite convinced that it was not necessary to increase the fender blisters though. It would have been very easy to modify the half shafts and keep the track the same. FWIW, Honda did just that on one of its JDM versions, to enable the cheaper level of Legend to qualify for a lower tax bracket.
What Aaron thinks likely happened was that some redesign of the area around the engine, perhaps involving the inner fender structure or so, was perhaps required. It’s possible that the Rover engineers grumbled about that, and this was somehow misinterpreted to involve the design of the fender exteriors.
Or perhaps there was a desire to change the fenders anyway, to make the car look more aggressive or such, and the engine became the scapegoat. These kind of issues obviously are very likely to happen in this kind of joint venture development process, and finger pointing is rife when things involve any kind or changes dictated by the other partner.
But I’d have to see more facts before I were to believe this clam as it is. It’s just not logical, given the minor addition in length, and how easy it is to adjust for that without changing the track.
Update: I see Aaron has also just weighed in.
It’s probably worth noting (as I did in my own article) that I think Rover was already unhappy about the width constraints dictated by the need to accommodate the narrow-fender JDM version, which made the 800 about 40mm narrower inside than the SD1. So, it appears this was a very sore point for the British in general.
I also get the impression from the remarks some of the Rover team made to the press at launch that the British engineers were looking for opportunities to counter the idea that they were simply following where Honda led. In the same article from whence came the fender story, British engineers also alleged that Honda’s claimed 0.32 Cd was exaggerated because the Japanese were embarrassed that the 800 was more aerodynamic than the Legend. I don’t know if I believe that either, but that claim came out of the same interview or set of interviews.
Whether or not needed, I think the fender blisters/flares are one of the most distinctive features of the design, and worked very well. These Legends are, while not flashy, really a very nice piece of styling work.
I almost bought a Legend coup when it was new but balked at the price of what perceived as a glorified Honda Accord. I have always regretted my misjudgment.
I’m wrong to even mention I have two Lexus, What a jerk i am. I will ban myself for two weeks. Who wants braggart? No comments for two weeks. I hope to redeem myself 🙂 I love this site, and I will keep my reputation.
Two weeks? I’m sure the guys will come up with something you’ll just HAVE to reply to! 🙂
The Sterling appeared briefly here, but haven’t seen even a ratty example in years…..anyone else remember them or have seen one lately?
Sure I remember, think there was even a CC on it once. They were supposed to promise British luxury and Honda reliability. The Honda reliability part didn’t happen.
Edit: Found it. https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-european/curbside-classic-1987-sterling-825-sl-turkey-in-the-grass/
I have an original Sterling launch brochure somewhere, I think my father went to look at them since he always liked Jags, but never pulled the trigger on one because of their rep, I remember the question on the inside of the first page went something like this…I swear….
“If only the British could build a car like the Japanese……If only the Japanese could build a car like the British….”
Sterling is the answer.
Turns out that it wasn’t.
Though, a Sterling was like a Japanese car made like a British car, but not in a good way. I remember the stupid RHD hood release on the passenger footwell…WTF?
I haven’t seen a running Sterling in years, one of the last ones that I ever saw was owned by a guy that also owned a Chrysleratti TC.
Re the car itself- I love these. Way back in about 1996, I had the occasion to call a taxi during one of my visits back home. This is what came to get me. Looked and ran like new. Only blip was a shuddering speedo needle. Looked at the odo, 422,000 kms (250,000 miles).
The minds eye recalled taxi rides a little more than 15 years earlier in another life. The early 70s Fords and Chevys of the period. The front end swaying to and fro from the shot ball ball joints, the driver valiantly trying to hold it in line with the steering spoke vertical. The shot weatherstripping and the doors which wouldn’t close properly.
What a time to be alive, I thought to myself.
My dad tried to buy a Legend coupe version in the fall if 1987, but the dealer wouldn’t take his Audi 5000 in trade thanks to the wonderful people at 60 Minutes.
We went down the road and bought a ’88 Accord EXi that outlasted my parents. My brother is still driving it.
Re the VRA: More government meddling in free markets which allowed pond scum dealers to gouge consumers with all manner of “packs”.
Artificially created product shortages. Even the official importers were in on the act.
Read about it here.
http://www.amazon.in/Arrogance-Accords-Inside-Story-Scandal/dp/0965776611
None of this would have happened if free markets were allowed to take their course. I wouldn’t have cared if all Detroit out of business as a result. .
I agree completely with your conclusion. Before 1978 or so, Japanese cars were synonymous with econoboxes. High quality econoboxes, but econoboxes nonetheless.
The combo of the VIR and CAFE were a 1-2 punch that really hurt Detroit. The restrictions got folks used to the idea that a Japanese car could be a premium car, and CAFE allowed the Japanese companies (particularly Lexus and Infiniti) to offer vehicles of size and power that would have led to huge fines and taxes at the D3.
As an import fighter, the Lincoln Mark VIII proves to be an ultimate failure. Even though Ford spent much more than they should, plus prototype convertible with auto roof, and few more with doors open downwards, potential 4 wheel steering, all wheel drive, eventually the car is still an extension of a Thunderbird with a really good engine. The car managed to achieve very ideal MPG ( Cash for Clunkers couldnt take Mark VIII as a trade before the MPG was adjusted, since the MPG is 1 better than the initial threshold ) and it compares really well with Lexus SC, but there seems to be something mysteriously going wrong.here and there.
Those downward-opening door ones are such a cool gimmick!
” CAFE allowed the Japanese companies (particularly Lexus and Infiniti) to offer vehicles of size and power that would have led to huge fines and taxes at the D3.”
Weren’t the D3 selling vehicles of the same size and power?
Yes. For instance, a FWD Buick Electra of the same vintage as the first Legend was bigger than the Legend in every dimension and offered 3.0 or 3.8-liter V-6s.
Lower power, insanely tall axle ratios with lockup torque converters, with cheapened components to meet weight targets. So, you had Cadillacs with the awful 4100 engine and Lincolns with a lopo 5.0 hobbled by that awful power-sapping AOD tranny. Otherwise, just like the Lexus LS400. 🙂
Apples and oranges. Stuff like the dire 4100 was conceived in the late ’70s, when the CAFE rules were set to continue to escalate through the ’80s and when everyone fully expected $5/gallon gasoline by mid-decade. The LS400 was conceived after oil prices had stabilized and its development more or less coincided with the realization that the Reagan administration was at least going to freeze if not actually roll back a lot of the previously escalating fuel economy, emissions, and safety standards. American cars whose development began after that point were no longer as small or as efficiency-minded as previously either. That the U.S. automakers didn’t reach quite as far as Toyota did with Lexus had more to do with chasing lower price points and a relentless penny-pinching that can’t be blamed entirely on Washington.
The latter part is simply not true. Lexus and Infiniti were subject to CAFE, gas guzzler taxes, and later the ’90s luxury tax, just as Detroit was. (I do think it is fair to say that luxury car makers had a bit more leeway than, say, Ford to simply absorb the fine as a cost of doing business, but the Europeans were more apt to do that than any of the Japanese automakers.) Cars like the Legend and the first LS400, constrained by Japanese and European size restrictions, were still not as big as something like the GM H-bodies, much less a B-body Caprice.
But Toyota/Lexus was not selling hundreds of thousands of V8 Caprices, Camaros and such. When the rest of the fleet was efficient fuel Sippers, Toyota was less concerned with fuel mileage for its flagship.
So, would you say the W126 560SEL and 750iL were Mercedes and BMW using CAFE to steal Detroit’s thunder?
there is a better candidate
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arrogance-and-Accords-by-Steve-Lynch-1997-Hardcover-/121228675800?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item1c39cacad8
Excellent piece on the car’s development, Brendan. I liked these a lot when they came out, though they were pretty well beyond my price range. I worked with a lawyer who traded an 81 Sedan DeVille on an 86 Accord and never looked back. He would occasionally glance admiringly at the Legends out on the roads, but he was too frugal to spend the extra money.
There is a tendency to compare these to cars from Lexus and Infiniti, but everyone forgets that Acura hit our shores 3 years before Lexus and Infiniti did, and is probably responsible for the very existence of those two brands.
I think that Acura hurt itself by continuing to do its thing while the competition went further upmarket. The Acura was a winning product when it first came out, but shortly, the segment would be dominated by V8/rwd cars while Acura kept selling fwd V6s for nearly the same money.
That’s the problem that continues to plague Acura. The RLX is a nice car, but less people want a large $55,000 FWD sedan than a RWD car of the same price and size. The TLX is a little easier to justify, given its smaller size and SH-AWD that doesn’t have the same price jump as the RLX Sport Hybrid AWD. I read somewhere recently that Acura may go AWD-only in the next couple of years.
Acura ‘died’ when the Yen skyrocketed in value in the 90’s. Lexus faced the same problem, of course, but they maintained quality and standards and increased prices. Fortunately Lexus was so firmly established that their customers simply paid up. Acura on the other hand, made the decision to decontent to keep prices down, and boy did it show. They became Mercurys in the worst sense of tarted up Ford. I don’t think they have ever recovered, at least in status, and their ‘modernist styling’ really hasn’t helped, at least in my opinion.
Great point about how Its windshields, aircraft-style doors, flush glass and door handles were similar in style to the 3rd generation Accord. Also great point about how there was nothing above Accord for all those gen 1-3 buyers to move up to.
Honda buyers were definitely of the kind that would buy German after an Accord and a few pay raises. Toyota buyers too, but less so, and there wasn’t as much urgency to create a luxury brand over there. You can be sure though that as soon as Acura took off Toyota went full bore nuts on the LS. Whatever they were planning to do got three times better after they saw the Legend. Look what that did to the 2nd gen car.
As for that car itself, I liked but couldn’t love the Legend. The fender blisters always looked forced and the engine made a characteristic and rather unpleasant growl down low. The A/T was clunky. If anything the Legend made me appreciate the 3rd gen Accord even more, Honda’s defining moment in my eyes.
I wonder how many former Honda owners who prospered did go German only to be aghast at the difference in reliability and service costs? I convinced my retired parents to go the other way, and they were ecstatic.
Our neighbors recently traded their Accord for an E-class. I haven’t asked yet if they have any regrets, but as for me, I’ll stay away from kostbar Deutschen Autos. Whatever performance superiority they may have over the Japanese is irrelevant to my driving conditions.
I was a serial Acura Integra owner who was supposed to step up to a Legend, but by 1998 when I was financially in a position to do so, Acura was pretty much a second-tier luxury line, and I ended up in a 328i instead. I have stayed with BMW since then.
As far as reliability, let me say this: I owned four Integra’s between 1986 and 1998 and although I always had ‘Personal Service Advisors’, I could never remember their names because I never saw them. With BMW, I know the names of my Service Advisor’s kids, and she recognizes not just MY voice on the phone, but my wife’s. Finally, FWIW, although I really enjoy driving them all my BMW’s go away before the warranty does.
Interesting article.
One teeny, tiny point: the name within Honda for what would become the Legend….THE most luxurious Honda to be sold was also the “name” of the most fuel frugal Civic, Honda would sell (aside from the Civic hybrid). And yes, I realize HX also meant Honda eXperimental.
I should be working but came back to take another look that beautiful Fleetwood Brougham with the real wire wheels. What a knock-out that car is in black; as old as the 7-series but not the least bit dated, a truly timeless design. The Legend has aged fairly well but I find the slab-sided BMW really unattractive. The ad is a let down too. The Cadillac piece is as classic as the styling and I’ve always liked the “we make it simple” ads from Honda. When a brand has history and a clear identity there is so much more to work with.
Carmine:
I hadn’t seen a running Sterling in decades, either, until a year ago. While out driving around Jacksonville, I was a bit surprised to see a red Sterling sitting in front of a house about a mile from downtown. From the condition and the area where I found it I assumed I had run across a very rare….was parked because it wasn’t running, car.
That is until subsequent “visits” to the area revealed that the Sterling would change positions.
Then 2 weeks ago I heard it pull away from it’s parking spot (I was too slow to actually see it).
Unfortunately, that Sterling looks like a refugee from a Pull-apart yard.
I have never seen a Sterling in person. It seems unlikely that I ever will. It’s too bad that their build quality and reliability were so poor, ultimately killing the car’s chance of survival in the market, as they were nice looking inside and out.
Exterior:
And Interior:
Interesting, does that dash has Acura/Honda gauges? it must be an early mock up, as far as I know, the ones we got in the US had these more “euro” looking gauge cluster. Unless they were changed later in the run.
I’ve never seen a Sterling branded car phone……..oooooh la la Mr. Fancy……
Brendan, c’mon down to New Zealand, plenty of RHD Sterlings (albeit Rover 8-series badged) still around here. Nobody wants ’em, so you could pick one up for virtually nothing and study it to your heart’s content! The exterior looks great in the metal, but the interior plastics (and even the woodoid stuff) look low-grade versus the Legend. Speaking of which, great find and I enjoyed your write-up 🙂
New Zealand is on my bucket list. Some day…
Rhondas of all models are quite common in my neck of the woods they suffer the usual Honda lack of maintenance maladies but the mechanical parts are easy to come by break a light well thats a different story no parts exist the dealers all evaporated, my BIL was parts manager at Rover city Parnell but has recently retired after 12 years at Ford the panel parts supply dried up years ago.
I’ll look forward to it!
Or if you can’t make it to New Zealand, you can head to Beaverton OR and pick up these two. They have been sitting in the car port of a mid century modern home and though the house wasn’t for sale, we wanted to make an offer and include the Sterlings….
How strange….did anyone come to the door or were the skeletons inside the home to busy to answer.
Paul, I think we need a investigative team sent out.
+1
Then we can name them Jane and Roger Sterling!
Ba da tish, you win the internets for that comment Brendan!
And here is another shot of the Dusty Sterlings…
Even rarer than someone who bought one: someone who bought two!
I thought that the minute one bought any British vehicle of that era, it was wise to buy another to ensure you’d hopefully have one that was functioning at any given time! 😉
They were the matching set part of a Crystal Pepsi prize promotion…..
As a former Pepsi employee I resemble that remark! 😉
I bought one of these new in 1990. I drove it for 16 years with very few problems. It gave me 11 years of fun dependable transportation with no car payment. I am still driving the car that I replaced it with, but I still miss the Legend.
I found a Legend coupe with a manual transmission on CL about a month ago….I’m still thinking I should have contacted the seller.
BTW, I saw another early 90s Legacy today, and hadn’t realized how similar looking the Legacy and Legend are to each other.
I recall hearing a while ago that the Legacy was why Acura changed the Legend’s taillight design for 1989, as the new Legacy’s was a near copy.
I remember the Sterling TV ads from about `87.It featured the “James Bond” theme. Hardly a car 007 would drive unless there was a “product placement” plug in the movie.
I remember that ad, though I think it was a parody, it was sort of “Bond themed”, but at the end of the ad, Patrick McNee from The Avengers TV series gets out of the car and says something like, “You were expecting someone else?”
From Wikipedia:
Circa 1989, Macnee did another commercial of note for the Sterling Motor Car Company which presented an inspired matchup of product and spokesman. In this, over the James Bond theme, the car duels with a motorcycle assailant at high speed through mountainous territory, ultimately eludes the foe, and reaches its destination. Here, it is Macnee who steps out of the car and greets us with a smile, saying, “I suppose you were expecting someone else?”
Though there were a few Rover 800’s seen as background cars in 1987’s 007 film The Living Daylights.
Here’s the commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLijgGxPkxc
Patrick McNee was also a Bond sidekick in “A View To A Kill”.
I am an Acura salesperson, and believe me the Legend name should never have been dropped. EVER! Every day I hear stories of previous Legend owners that loved their cars and wish Acura still made the Legend. Well, technically they do, as the RLX is sold as the Honda Legend in Japan. Yet if I show someone an RLX they just look at it as a large sedan that is very nice. I feel if the Legend name were on it there would be a ton more interest in the car. Honda didn’t (and wouldn’t EVER) get rid of the Accord name, so why should they have changed the popular and well-loved Legend name? I think it was a huge mistake to get rid of a name that consumers knew, trusted and loved.
BTW, Paul, I have a twin to your rare TSX wagon that just came in off of lease – a white 2011 beauty with only 20,000 miles on it! What a truly nice car it is!
I’ve always liked the first generation Legend it’s Sterling/Rover 82x cousin, but I have to wonder why the 810 Maxima/Cressida never seem to be included as the first Japanese luxury sedans to be offered in the US.
I still see a good number of old Acura’s on the road. They were built to last and last and last…… When Lexus, Infiniti and Acura came on to the auto scene they took the world by storm. Even the top european brands were suddenly let down a rung or two especially with the first Lesus LS series in 1989. The american luxury automakers were floundering especially the awful Cadillacs of the ’80s. The Japanese luxury cars were the icing on the cake: perfect in fit, finish, engineering and a long reputation for mechanically superior vehicles. It took BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar a long time to catch up to the superior sense of design and build quality that, especially Lexus, pioneered from the start.
Pretty cool writeup; I’ve always liked these cars. When I was younger, a neighbor family had a dark green Legend coupe with silver rockers (or tan, I can’t remember), and a silver sedan with gray rockers. I admired both cars, the Legend (especially the first generation, to me, remains an under-appreciated future classic.
In Minnesota, however, rust has gotten most of these to point of no return. Last time I went to a U-Pull-It (admittedly five or six years ago), there were about eight of these, all with sever holes in the rear wheelwells, front fenders, and leading edge of the hood. True to Honda fashion, not one of them appeared to have anything mechanically wrong with them. Shame, really.
nice info! i love to have them, back when im still in my highschool
The most distinctive element in the original Legend’s interior was the door panel/armrest that flowed directly into the dash, best shown in the blue drawing near the top of this post. Yet for some reason it didn’t last even to the end of the first generation; the coupes never had it.
Acura got off to a great start but seems to have stumbled since. Today, I think of Acura as one of the in-betweener upscale but not-quite-luxury territory also occupied by Volvo and Buick, whereas Lexus is a full-on luxury brand comparable to the big German marques. According to J.D.Power and Consumer Reports, quality control has stumbled too.