(first posted 10/8/2013) By 1995, it was crystal clear that Chrysler’s minivan was a runaway success. Both of Mopar’s main domestic rivals had taken (at least) one swing at building a credible competitor, and each time had came up short. By 1995, it was Honda’s turn.
During the two or three years after the unveiling of Chrysler’s 1984 minivan, the competition could be forgiven for failing to understand its appeal; the first three installments in this series outlined their respective failures. Both the Chevy Astro (CC here) and Ford Aerostar (CC here) were based on the mistaken belief that Mr. & Mrs. America would really prefer a minivan that was simply a downsized big van. Bzzzzzt…sorry, wrong answer. Then came the GM Dustbuster vans of 1990 (Olds Silhouette CC here), which took the opposite direction by providing a car-like experience along with the kind of full-out styling razzle-dazzle that only GM could do. Bzzzzzzt…wrong again.
By the early 1990s, two things had become abundantly clear: First, the car-buying public liked Chrysler’s mix of car-like ride and practical packaging; and second, the minivan market was too big to ignore. With that in mind, Honda, being Honda, tried a different approach.
In September 1990, Honda’s Chief Engineer for research and development, Kunimichi Odagaki, led a twenty- member team to the U.S. to assess the American minivan market. What they found was an American minivan segment in full flower, with Chrysler-built versions leading the market by a huge margin. Odagaki surely understood that Chrysler’s minivan formula would naturally translate to Honda’s front-wheel-drive Accord platform; after returning to Japan, he started work on a minivan that he was convinced could be sold not just in America, but throughout the rest of the world as well.
Then, higher-ups at Honda cancelled the minivan program, undoubtedly due to the rough Japanese economy at the time. However, the resourceful Odagaki channeled his inner John DeLorean and took the program underground, hiding its work under the guise of research and development for a “Personal Jet.” Eventually, Odagaki was able to sway management into bringing the program back above ground, and development of what would become the Honda Odyssey continued.
The Author’s 1996 Odyssey
Key design parameters included maximizing interior size while minimizing exterior size, and also using as many existing components from existing lines as possible. Japan’s economy was in terrible condition in those years, and manufacturing efficiency would be extremely important to keeping the value high and the costs low. These budgetary concerns would serve both the company and potential buyers in need of maximum car for minimum money. Therefore, the Odyssey would share its 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine and four-speed automatic transaxle (and most of its other mechanical components) with the Accord.
Honda was also forced to pay heed to the U.S. “chicken tax”, which would make any imported vehicle classified as a light truck prohibitively expensive due to the 25% tariff attached to it. That may have been one of the considerations that dictated four hinged doors, rather than the more common (American) configuration of two front doors and a single slider on the side. More likely, though, hinged doors were already in the company’s repertoire, while the slider would require fresh engineering and tooling. Also, every U.S.-bound vehicle would be designed to accommodate six or seven passengers, plus rear-area heating and air conditioning. There would, of course, be no cargo version offered.
The Odyssey’s most notable design feature was its flip-and-fold third seat. Remember, this was at a time when all of America was muscling heavy third-row seats in and out of their minivans. Honda’s design was the original stow- and-go seat, giving owners the freedom to reconfigure the van’s seating in sixty seconds while eliminating the need to store the bulky back seat in the garage or basement when not in use.
Manufacture began in 1994, and the Oddy was introduced as a 1995 model. The groundbreaking Odyssey went on to become Honda’s fastest-selling new vehicle ever, surpassing the record of the original Civic. Everywhere except in the United States, that is.
Here, the Odyssey’s North American debut resulted in a pronounced yawn, making it one of the few new Honda models that was not a breakout success in America (where it was sometimes called the Honda Oddity). So, what happened?
It certainly wasn’t a matter of quality. The 1995-98 Odyssey may have been the all-around best Honda ever offered in America. That’s a strong statement, but not without basis: This car offered every bit of traditional Honda goodness, which was finally mated to a body that would not rust to powder within six years of its first exposure to road salt. The Oddy may be the most rust-resistant Honda ever built, and certainly was up to that time. Even today, nearly twenty years after its introduction, the few Gen-one Oddys still seen hereabouts in rust country are amazingly free of corrosion.
The Odyssey’s problem in the U.S. was threefold: the size; the lack of a V6 engine; and the price. The Honda minivan was simply smaller than virtually every other minivan offered in the U.S. This had not traditionally been a problem for Honda, which had always made small cars, and had sold quite a few of them here. But when it comes to a minivan, no amount of clever packaging will outweigh the need for the thing to be big enough for families to do what they do with a minivan. When there are Cub Scouts and soccer teams to convey from here to there (along with all their necessary junk), size matters. Chrysler proved this by cleaning up with its larger and grandified minivans.
The Honda 2.2L engine was a real honey, and was specifically retuned to match its 140 ponies with maximum midrange torque. Even though road tests could thrash an empty one to sixty in a touch over ten seconds, the little engine was severely overmatched by normal minivan duties. In the real world, the Oddy was universally labeled as slow, despite its svelte 3,500 pound weight.
Worse yet, the Honda’s undersized (and underpowered) offering was priced right up there with everyone else’s much larger minivans. I distinctly remember this, being in the market for a van in 1995. I came to discover that all passenger vans (at least those that seated seven) seemed to come in two prices. The mid-level version cost about $24,000, while the high-trim model (like this Odyssey EX) would sticker at about $30,000. So, whether you bought an Odyssey, a Grand Caravan or a Ford Club Wagon, pricing was the same. Mrs. JPC and I have long bought cars by the pound, and in an era of low gas prices, there was simply no reason to accept a cramped, underpowered minivan (no matter how well made it might be), when a huge, comfortable and powerful big van could be had at the same price. (Also, when you bought the big American one as a year-old model, you saved a lot more – yes, I’ll take the green one).
The relative few who fell for the little Honda’s charms were richly rewarded. The four-wheel double wishbone suspension was a handling delight, and all of Honda’s many other positive attributes were in full supply. In truth, this was the last really good (North American) Odyssey. To be fair, Honda had misread the U.S. market as badly as Ford and GM had done before–the difference being that where the Americans provided too much truck, the Honda provided too little. The second-generation that arrived for 1999 would be designed precisely for American tastes, and would give the Chrysler triplets their first real competition–right down to their suicidal transmissions.
The Author’s 1996 Odyssey
I am happy to report that I eventually did become the happy owner of one of these little Oddities – a 1996 mid-level LX. I came to appreciate both its many clever little touches and extreme durability. The car reminded me of a Valiant or Dart station wagon from the mid-1960s in terms of its quality, simplicity and substance-over-style personality. I came to terms with its leisurely acceleration by appreciating that even with north of 200,000 miles at the time of purchase, everything looked and worked just as it should. Am I right that 96% of Odyssey production was painted this lifeless platinum color? Unfortunately, mine met its end when an elderly lady (in another Honda) made a left turn before she should have, sending my poor, beloved Odyssey (with its brand-spanking-new timing belt and water pump and a full tank of gas) to the salvage yard. I tried to find another, which proved that the only way to find the needle in the haystack is by looking for something other than a needle; since I was looking for a needle, there would be, of course, no suitable replacement to be found while I still had my rental car.
In those places that appreciated the original Oddy, buyers were treated to a steady stream of updated versions that flows to this very day. I suppose that in the world of Honda, we all get the minivan we deserve. You want a big, fast minivan with a floppy structure and imploding transmissions? You’re the doctor. Oy! Americans! But for markets that appreciated the merits of the original, the original they shall have. I had harbored hope during the fuel-price panics of late in the last decade that the world Odyssey would reappear on our shores, in order to fill the void between increasingly huge minivans and the too-small Mazda5. Unfortunately, it was not to be. Perhaps to Americans, a sanely sized minivan has all the appeal of a two-door station wagon. Pity.
The author’s Odyssey
I’ll echo JP’s sentiments about these. In fact, I had a coworker who occasionally towed a small, flatbed trailer with his, and did so well past 100k miles, with no problems. Last time I rode in it, just as JP said, everything looked and worked as it should – and this was NOT a pampered vehicle. It definitely served its duty well of hauling two kids and their assorted gear, and took my colleague on many a deer hunt, although I don’t think he drove it very far into the woods.
I have no idea how good it would be off-road, but apparently these were available in other markets with AWD. I have seen 1 or 2 JDM models of this generation Odyssey advertised by importers of obscure Japanese car but considering the mileages quoted they are quite expensive used, too.
I liked the second gen best. Truthfully, I look at the second gen as the real first gen, and the first gen as a tall wagon that carried the same name. But I only ever looked upon these from afar; perhaps I, too, would be charmed by the original.
No, the no-sliding-door Odyssey is the second generation. The first sliding door model is the third.
The first generation Odyssey was a four wheeled dune buggy sold thru the motorcycle division between 1977 and 1985 in 250 and 350cc versions (FL250 and FL350). And they occasionally provide a bit of confusion for us when a customer calls . . . . and it turns out he wants the Honda car dealership about a mile east of our motorcycle shop.
Just because the same name was used, we can’t call the ’95 wagon-van-whatev (crossover?) the second gen. On the other hand, thanks for the trivia. Geez, what manner of item with a motor hasn’t Honda sold by now?
These were very popular but now Mazxda people movers in various sizes are eating Hondas lunch not that theres a shortage of Honda minivans in various sizes its just I see more Mazdas on the roads
…now if we could find an Isuzu Oasis…
Fear not!
I spotted that vintage magazine ad of the Isuzu Oasis.
http://www.productioncars.com/vintage-ads.php/Isuzu/Oasis
Edit: There also some screenshots from various tv series and movies where the Oasis do a cameo appearance http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Isuzu_model-Oasis.html
When I ran track in high school, we used do hill workouts on this street where there was a light blue Oasis. It was still a daily driver, driven by a mother with several young children. Because the Oasis was really a Honda in all but name, it was probably one of the longest-lasting Isuzus ever. I can’t remember the last time I saw a Rodeo or Trooper.
Plenty of Rodeos and Troopers (as well as the ‘Honda’ Passport) still extant in Colorado & Utah, which is surprising given the godawful engines they employ. All the clattering of a 70’s diesel without the benefits.
Come to Houston…there’s plenty of both Troopers and Rodeos rumbling around. I just semi-retired my ’01 Trooper to vacation duty up in New England….230k miles….it has earned its rest. Miss it every day…
The Gen 1 Oddity was actually what I consider the perfect sized family vehicle, in the same class as the Mercury Villager/Nissan Quest. Too bad nothing similar is sold today…
Saw one last week in front of my old house, a white Oasis with just enough Portland moss growing on it to show it hasn’t been washed in over a year. I’ll see if I can spot it again for a photo.
I agree everything in a odyssey except the price I stalk any model Isuzu or honda before 1996 I just laugh when people complain about their new high price vehicle if it’s running good at 230k it’s good for another 80k
“But when it comes to a minivan, no amount of clever packaging will outweigh the need for the thing to be big enough for families to do what they do with a minivan” – I don’t think the Odyssey has that problem nowadays, it’s HUGE!
Dare I say this, but these Odysseys were really one of the first modern-day “Crossovers” (sorry to use that word). Essentially a tall Accord wagon, much like present cars such as the Toyota Venza and Honda’s own Crosstour.
When I was little, I remember seeing quite a few of these. They were still in production at that point, thus brand spanking new. My minivan affection had already struck me that young, and I loved these!
Yes it is huge. How huge? Comparable to this puppy:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1975-ford-thunderbird-cherries-cost-extra/
One can kindly call it the lardassification of minivans. Or perhaps maxivan would be more apt.
That said, friends of my wife and I have one. It is very nice, quite comfortable, and almost as quiet as, say, a ’75 Thunderbird. It’s likely the nicest minivan I’ve ever ridden in.
I will guarantee that a new Odyssey weighs just as much as a 75 Thunderbird, so it had better be quiet and comfortable.
I agree. If I were in the market for a new minivan the Odyssey would be my only choice. Touring models reach Acura MDX-luxury territory.
That said, I still am bothered by how large minivans in general have grown. Especially now that some like the Odyssey and Sienna offer 8-passenger seating. I’m sorry but minivans seat 7. If you have more passengers, they squeeze or sit on the floor. That’s how I’ve always done it. It always seemed meant to be that way because of minivan’s expansive, flat floors.
That 8th seat is really just a glorified jump seat to slide in between the middle row captain’s chairs. Folds down to make a little table. Easy to remove as well. We love ours for that “just in case” situation when you might have an extra kid.
Definitely good for kids!
I wish my Dodge had seats for three in the middle. Three car seats are so much easier to deal with in a single row. Plus that middle seat is the safest place to put a single kid.
What I hate in a lot of newer minivans are center consoles. That open floor area between the front seats is one of the best features of a minivan.
The ability to get from the front seats to the back without having to open a door used to be a major minivan selling point. But, evidently, focus groups must have determined that having a center console is now more important. I suppose the idea is that it’s still technically possible to get to the back from the front, you just have to climb over the console now.
FWIW, it’s still possible to get the original design minivan with the front seat walk-thru, but it’s confined to the lowest tier models.
See I disagree with the merits of owning a Maxivan. Having owned, and hated, a fully loaded ’08 Grand Caravan SXT with the 4.0L found that while yes, it was comfy for highway duty and for trips to the airport and big box store. But it was as bad as an F-150 for parking, sucked gas like a Sailor swizzles rum on a pass, wallowed in the corners like same drunken Sailor regardless of is ‘Sport Tuned Suspension’ and had a myriad of issues from day-one to include power sliding doors that suddenly wouldnt stay closed, power folding seats that wouldn’t fold or seat together, a MyGig stereo that crapped the bed in the first 30mins of a trip to Denver from Kansas City, and ran through brake shoes AND rotors every 30k miles.
Finally got rid of the pig and got a ’10 Mazda5 GT, which has got to be the predecessor to the original Oddity. While it doesn’t fit more than six (I have three kids and a big dog), and luggage space is limited (helped with a Thule box on the rack up top), it’s surprisingly nimble, incredibly reliable, fuel friendly, accessory laden yet not bloated, and sooooooo much easier to find parking. I will never go back to a Maxivan.
Very interesting write-up, especially the back story with the project going “underground” to stay protected during lean years.
When these came out, I went with my Father-in-law to check them out, as he was looking for a replacement for his wife Rita’s Jeep Cherokee, which was their “family hauler.” At the time, my wife’s two half-brothers were just getting into their teens and growing like weeds, so the goal was something with a little more room. But, in spite of the family’s very practical nature and hauling needs, they just weren’t interested in a conventional minivan, seeing them as too big and perhaps too associated with the emerging “soccer mom” image. Seemingly a perfect fit for the Honda, right? Wrong. While I was a huge Honda advocate at that time and would recommend them to anyone, the Odyssey was a tougher sell. The Accord engine definitely wasn’t up to snuff for the vehicle. With just my Father-in-law, the salesman and me in the car (vanlet? tall wagon?), it felt woefully under-powered. And while the packaging was very good for its size, it didn’t come across as especially roomy given its intended mission. Felt like everything was just a bit compromised. He passed on the Odyssey (didn’t even bother to take Rita to see it), and they wound up getting another Jeep, this time a Grand Cherokee.
Had to laugh at your observation about the color. Seemed like EVERY Odyssey was painted that boring silver. Including the demonstrator we drove back in 1996!
JPC- While you’re on “How Hard Can it be to Make a Minivan?”, have you done a CC on the Previa? Arguably the most competitive with Chrysler’s products, yet expensive and mid-engined. Replaced with normality.
I have not done the Previa yet, but plan to address one in this series at some point. It is a fascinating vehicle on several levels.
The Previa was a rather overcomplicated attempt to hit Chrysler where it wasn’t. Which is to say, a mid-engined RWD minivan, with a high floor and (because of that) not so great space utilization. Yeah, that’ll teach ’em…
Who in their right mind thought that attaching the unused rear seats to the sides of the interior was a good idea? How about servicing that bad boy? Better yet, let’s add to the complexity quotient and stuff an AWD drivetrain underneath it… That will make it all better… And let’s price it close to $30K (in 1991 dollars, $50K today!)… Yeah, that will REALLY show ’em…
No, the Previa was neat in it’s own quirky way, but as a serious competitor for the T115’s? With it’s huge price disadvantage?
Sorry, no.
Hmm, I think these were slightly more popular in Canada, given our leaning towards smaller vehicles. Those I knew that had them raved about how much they loved them. One guy bought his second Gen1 just as production was ending so he could have one longer.
However, those I know who have the current Odyssey rave for a different reason. We have freinds who sneered at our base Caravan and took a whopping loan to buy a two year old Odyssey “because we want Honda quality”. The transmission replacement cost almost half as much as our Caravan…
I love this series…
I wonder if Honda offered different colors according to regions in the USA? Case in point, a bunch of you are mentioning that the only Odysseys you saw were silver in color. But in my neck of the woods(Maryland) all the first gen Ody vans were light blue and the only ilver Odys I saw were disguised as Oasis.
I also like to think of the fisrt gen Odyssey van as a tall wagon due to the size, lack of sliding doors and profile. If i could snag a good example at a fair price(Ha Ha this being a Honda it’s second hand price will be high) I would get one
In the midwest, there were a smattering of dark green, dark blue and metallic red ones around. The silver-blue ones and the white ones were hardly ever seen. These platinum (not quite silver, not quite champagne) ones were far and away the most popular.
I spent some time on an Odyssey forum when I owned mine, and the white ones were highly coveted among fans of these.
These may be less expensive than you might think just because they were never all that popular.
The funny thing is, that if the car had been more successful, it would be hailed as a triumph in niche marketing, like the Miata.
Coming of age in the eighties, I was not going to consider minivan ownership until a Japanese manufacturer produced a modern option (i.e. front engine, front wheel drive). I knew this generation of Odyssey would top my short list when I saw them in service as New York City cabs. Vehicles used as NYC cabs must be on a short approval list, and enter service new.
We ended up with a 98 LX, which had the one-year-only 2.3 liter engine. It was a great car. It had exactly the room we needed, the swinging back doors were the best choice, and it rode and handled beautifully. In fact, when we replaced it a year ago, the first vehicle we considered was the Mazda 5. That car was just a little too small, though, and we went with a 2010 Odyssey EX-L.
The story ends with the vindication for Honda. The Odyssey is the standard for the class now. Despite anecdotal tales to the contrary, the Odyssey quality is vastly superior to the Chrysler products. When my local paper celebrates an increase in Chrysler sales, the same period increase for Honda is two to three times that. That keeps those folks in Alabama in gainful employment.
You are one of the many who came to love these things. The part I never understood is why Honda, instead of that horrible awful Crosstour, didn’t just bring the JDM Odyssey over here instead. There was such a small but dedicated fan base for this original Ody that a decent baseline of sales would about be guaranteed.
I spent time on forums for Odysseys. There were many unhappy owners of 2nd generation (1999-04) and a surprising amount of dissatisfaction with early 3rd generation versions. The first gen forum, in comparison, was all puppies and lollipops, with real fans keeping their eyes open for nice used ones to pick up. I have spent a little time in some newer ones (including a 2011 that belongs to a friend). I still don’t think that any subsequent Ody has been as good of a vehicle as the first one was (though the later ones clearly made for a better traditional minivans).
The 1999-2004 models were cursed with fragile transmissions and glitch-prone power sliding doors. The early models of the next generation had a much-improved transmission, but the torque converters were problematic. This problem, however, could be solved by a software reflash. I think that Honda may have finally gotten it right with the current generation.
This is a very popular car in Eugene. There’s at least three within a block’s distance from my house. It’s a classic “Eugene-mobile”: long-lasting, practical, not too big, economical; just the thing for an all-purpose car, whether it’s hauling kids up to the Waldorf School or their tie-die T shirts to Saturday Market. A good alternative to a Volvo wagon. I suspect it will be quite a while before they’re all dead and gone.
FWIW, I suspect I would have been pretty happy with one as an alternative to my Xbox.
Honda has learned how to build a good minivan today, arguably the best overall. However it comes at a steep price and is still rather harsh and noisy. Comparable Chryslers cost thousands less and still offer decent (albeit not top) quality and driving dynamics along with the most flexible interiors. It’s no surprise they still outsell the Odyssey by more than 2:1.
We bought a new one in 1998 (the last year) had the slightly larger 2.3 engine, and slightly revised gearing. easily the best car we have ever owned. so what if it was slightly under powered, the 2.3 loved to rev, and it was fast enough, even with a box on the roof and a sunfish being trailered behind. it is starting to rust a bit now, mostly at the doors, and at over 220k the motor is burning a bit of oil. we gave it to my father in law. The new ‘mini’ vans are indeed much too big, so we did get a mazda5, which is slightly too small, but large enough for 95% of what we do (adults in the 3rd row do not work for more than 30 minutes. I do wish they had kept bringing the JDM odyssey here, but I know we are the minority.
Last week I bought a van. For a long time I was bothered by how large minivans have become. With the size of my family, add in some friends or Grandparents, I changed my mind. I decided with the options currently available, I’d take the oversized van versus a gigantor SUV.
To speak of the original Odyssey, my experience is as follows. At 150k miles they still felt like a new vehicle. Very well built. Easy to maintain and repair. Underpowered, yes, but also economical to own and drive. Owners of the first gen Odyssey who purchased subsequent generations usually say the original was the best.
As an Accord wagon, it.s a fine car. The modern equivalent is the Mazda5.
Nice article on these vehicles. A co-worker owned a used one, and he swore by it. If I recall correctly, a few of these were used as taxicabs in New York City, and were found to be very tough.
Someone else may have said this too, but Brendan Saur beat me to it first — If the 1st gen Ody was introduced today it would be labelled a “crossover” or CUV, not a minivan.
I agree that the Mazda5 is too small. My wife and I test-drove one when vehicle shopping in 2010. If the 1st gen Ody hadn’t been so long out of production, I would have liked to test-drive one. Alas, it appears that a manual transmission was never offered even in the 1st gen Odyssey, which would have likely put it out of the running.
I thought that the 1st gen was designed for the JDM and was brought over hurriedly because Honda was missing out on the blooming minivan segment in America. I recall reading that the US-based team working on the specs for the 2nd gen spent a lot of time researching and decided that it MUST have sliding side doors for mainstream acceptance. The engineers in Japan tried to get out of this requirement. Ultimately the R&D paid off handsomely for Honda.
A very cool guy installed a 5-speed into one and there’s an in-car video of him driving down the road. He also installed an Accord Instrument cluster (it has a tach). Totally awesome.
My wife’s DD is a ’96 Odyssey LX in the dark green that I thought 75% of these came in…. we purchased it at an government seized auction with 134K on the clock about 8 years ago for $3,000.
I think it’s got around 240-260K on it now. Zero issues of course. It’s faithfully hauled seven full sized people from NC to FL more than once and it’s been on several inter-state trips…and I never remember it having trouble getting up hills in the times I’ve ridden or driven it.
What’s amazing is that there’s nary a tear in the cloth upholstery and not a single drip-spot under its outside parking spot in our driveway. The doors don’t sag, the A/C still blows ice cold, and it got around 27-29mph the last time I checked.
I’d verify the mileage but my wife just took the Big Chalupa (Standard Poodle/horse) to obedience school in it. The only defect that bugs me is the cloth covering the concave area of the upper door panels shrunk and has pulled away from the plastic panel. Had this been “another brand”, the material would have split, torn, or crumbled away.
When the transmission eventually goes in it, The “other” scrapyard save, a dark blue ’97 Odyssey will take over DD duties while I toy with the idea of putting a 5-speed in the green one.
I can’t say I’m an enthusiast…but I’m amazed at how versatile, economical, & dead reliable our Odyssey has been! GREAT article btw.
As a Midwesterner, I had virtually never heard of this car until I rode in one as a NYC taxi in early ’97. I remember it was a marvel of space efficiency, and comfortable with upright seating positions. We were in the city as tourists, so the view out was appreciated, and probably better then the Caprice cabs that I recall better then Crown Vics at the time.
At a time when large vehicles were popular, this was the wrong car at the wrong time. And, it is bland (with a small b, of course). It is virtually the poster child for the generic looking Fisher Price Little Family mini van my kids had a few years later. There is zero inspiration in this exterior.
Interesting note about NYC in ’97. It appeared that both the taxi fleet and police had loaded up on final year ’96 Caprices. It seemed like they all had that little kick in the C pillar window that I think was a ’96 only feature.
Correction – model for the Fisher Price “Loving Family” van. Honda should have reintroduced it in spring 2009 when efficiency and practicality were about the only things selling.
That 2.2L is one bulletproof SOB (That is, as long at the timing belt is kosher). I had one go to 300k before I sold it to my roommate in college for beer money.
Love how I can see sentiments of my ’95 Accord in the dashboard of this ride.
The conventional wisdom on the forums was that the entire drivetrain was good for 300K with moderate care. There are very few cars like that, especially when most of the body, interior and electricals will go the same distance.
“How hard can it be to make a minivan ?”
VERY hard !
If you want to see more of this “dormer on wheels”:
http://betterparts.org/ssangyong/ssangyong-rodius.html
i thought i was the only one who even noticed these. i remember when a few were put into taxi service in new york and they held up beautifully. i even like the car doors instead of the sliders.
This always struck me as an object lesson in the principle that what people actually need and what they buy are not necessarily the same thing at all.
I would hazard that for let’s say 85 percent of minivan buyers, the original Odyssey (or the current Mazda5, for similar reasons) represents as much van as they actually need 95 percent of the time. However, since the U.S. market generally doesn’t impose any specific penalties for buying a bigger vehicle other than incrementally higher fuel costs and maybe slightly more difficulty in parking lot maneuvers, people want and are willing to pay for the XXL version for the two or three times a yer they might actually need the extra capability.
(ETA: And yes, I realize that there are people who actually need the capabilities of a full-size 4WD SUV on a regular basis; my point is that the number of people who do is considerably smaller than the number of people who buy them.)
I had this argument with someone a couple of years ago on the Mazda5, pointing out that for the few times they actually needed to haul more people and stuff, it would be cheaper just to rent a bigger SUV or minivan for that weekend instead. (I know that if I were for some reason obliged to tote around someone else’s kids and their stuff, I would much rather it not be in my own car.) You can guess how far I got with that argument, and I suppose it was the same for Honda.
Well put.
I think there’s a misconception about how underpowered these things are anyway. Maybe my standards are low but the little 2.2 liter 4-cylinder engine was not singing/straining/howling when it carried seven adults & their luggage on a 700+ mile trip in 90 degree weather at 70-75mph with both front & rear A/C going (even after getting rear-ended in Atlanta on the way back)
I’ve had similar discussions regarding the recently released Fiat 500L, it appears to be the same size as the original T115 and close to the Mazda 5, which puts it in my sights if/when I feel the need for a replacement for the Aztek.
It will be interesting to see how the 500L holds up over time of course, but I have to imagine that Fiat is trying very hard to make sure that their product is on target, as I’m sure Sergio & Co., are painfully aware of their reputation in this part of North America. Too bad Piech & Co., don’t seem to acknowledge the same for VAG products…
Its almost like a CrossTour today. 🙂
eew!
While Honda was one of the first to finally get some real competition for Chrysler, the Odyssey ceased being ‘mini’ in 1999, and the last, most recent, truly perfect minivan was the second generation 2000 Mazda MPV. It was actually quite close in size to the original SWB Chrysler minivan, had the ‘magic’ disappearing third row seat that was a huge selling point of the Odyssey, sliding doors on both sides (power if one required that feature) that had roll-down windows, and none of the Odyssey’s transmission woes.
The only problem with the MPV was that it was underpowered with the 2.5L Duratec V6/4-speed automatic, but this issue was resolved when Mazda/Ford inserted the 3.0L/5-speed for 2002. From 2002 thru 2006, Mazda made a perfectly balanced, ‘just right sized’ minivan. It was large enough to handle most people/cargo hauling duties, but small enough to still maintain a car-like driving experience.
Unfortunately, most American consumers didn’t feel the same way and bought SUVs, instead. The MPV didn’t sell well enough for Mazda and it was replaced with the smaller Premacy (known as the Mazda5 in the US) in 2006.
There are many who wish Mazda (or someone else) still made a minivan of the size, features, and quality of the second generation Mazda MPV.
We see an awful lot of the current gen Mazda MPVs here – JDM imported. They’re great vehicles and enormously popular.
No one has mentioned about the rear door configuration. The rear doors sunk it.
In 1995 Chys/Dodg/Ply minivans all got sliding rear doors available for both right and left sides. This made it all the easier for Soccer Moms to remove younger spawn from rear child seats while parked between cars at Walmart, etc. And the dual rear doors figured big in Chrysler’s advertising of that time.
Who would buy a mini-van with near the same rear door configuration as Grandmaw’s Caprice Classic Station Wagon or Ford Country Squire Station Wagon even with the Honda presumed-reliability badge?
The MoPar 4 door vans came out with the 96 models, a full year after these. I will agree that the hinged doors were a liability when trying to sell a minivan. In fact, you could probably say that the law of the street back then went like this: sliding door? Minivan. Yay! Hinged doors? Station wagon. Groan. Even in 1995, 1 sliding door seemed to trump two hinged doors. When I owned mine, all of my kids were in middle school or above, thus the hinged doors were not an issue. Might have been different had they been toddlers. My big van used a hinged double door in the rear, but it was small enough that it was easy to open fairly wide.
I own a 1995 Odyssey EX in blue and I have to say I freaking LOVE it. It currently has 203K miles on it and it never gives me any fuss. I do agree with the fact that it is very underpowered, on hills the engine screams as you slowly watch the speedo needle drop haha. Otherwise though it is bulletproof. Ive honestly been thinking about restoring it when I get another car…. I just know these are gonna be a true oddball rarity in the future. Would raise a lot of eyebrows on the showfields at the AACA Ill bet!
I own a dark green/blue-ish 1995 and it’s wonderful. Bought it from an older lady 6 years ago. We have four children and we have not been good to this vehicle, but it takes the abuse well. Currently has 280k miles on it and very very few problems. We’ve put maybe a grand total of $1500 worth of extra work into it (not including oil changes and tires) since owning it. Of course there are little things: the power locks stopped working, the CD player recently started eating CDs, things like that….. we also got rear ended and haven’t been able to replace the back hatch, which had created a few problems with leakage when it rains. But….. we plan on driving it into the ground. When it dies (will it ever?), We will be upgrading to a full size (12 or 15 passenger) van, as our family size will grow as well, but if we need the full size van before this thing bites the dust, it will become my husband’s DD. It’s just too reliable to get rid of!
Want to sing the praises of my ’95 Lx, drove her off the showroom floor and she’s still humming after 273,000+ miles. Her 4 cylinder carried me safely on a 140 mile daily commute, in temps from 40-120 degrees, and in the high desert temps I fully appreciate her efficient AC’s. She’s hauled lumber to xmas trees, and family members that needed the comfort of her well designed seat heights post surgery….yeah, she’s my baby. Can’t bear to give her over to someone that might not appreciate her qualities, so even though it’s near time to semi retire her, she’ll be a hard act to follow….thanks Mr. Odagaki, my dream job would’ve been to work with you!
My wife and I traded our creaking, huffing, dud of a 92 Plymouth Voyager for a dark green 95 Ody! I had previously done my homework researching the little van on Edmunds.com and convinced my wife it would be a welcome change.
She loved it! Just south of 5′ 4″, she felt uncomfortable in the larger Voyager and the Cavarvan we had before that. To her, it was just a taller version of our 93 Accord.
It hauled our five daughters over the Catskill mountains of New York to their grandparents’ house for holidays and over the Appalachian mountains to college. It carried them safely to sleepovers, track meets, and church.
It never broke down on us, but flat-out refused to deliver anything over 18-20 mpg. (I will say, however, that I never had more trouble changing a fuel filter in ANY other vehicle than I did in our beloved Odyssey!)
When after 250,000 miles and seven years of faithful service, the rear suspension, steering rack, and clogged intake signaled it was time to look for a replacement, I asked my wife what she wanted. She said, “I don’t like the newer models of the Odyssey. They’re too big. When was the last year for this model?” I replied, “1998.” She said, “That’s what I want. Get me one of those!”
Like Goldilocks said, “Ah, just right!”
The Isuzu Oasis variant was sold though 1999 if you want the absolute last ones sold here.
I realize it’s several years too late for you JPC, but I happened to find one of these “Odditys” for sale at Carolina Auto Connection in Spartanburg, SC just last night. By pure coincidence, it too is a 1995 EX model. For its age & mileage (173k miles) as well as the asking price ($2,790) you can’t argue with its condition at all. The dealership has a promising description for it as well: NO Accidents, 2-Owner, STRONG Engine & Transmission, 4 New Tires, IMMACULATE Interior, New Paint, FULLY SERVICED. If you’re willing to drive the distance, this may be a VERY worthy investment–I’m tempted to buy it myself! If I only had the garage space for it…
Wow, that looks like a nice one!
I know I am very late but I am enjoying this series immensely! I am 54 yo and without a doubt my favorite car ever was a 94 Caravan, just did it all well. Now I have 92 Dakota, std cab, 3.9, 5 speed. I love it. Tough as nails, but I like the Caravan more…
this is by far the best vehicle I’ve ever had. it brings me joy for sure! sometimes I have to ask is it on because it whispers. it’s my daily driver, I’ve hauled a bar, king bed, two-bedroom apartment worth of furniture and couldn’t believe the things I’ve fit in it but now I’m thinking of getting another for an RV build. i read the creator inspired by private jets built the the first gen…it’s my PJ that tows, hauls and glides off 15$ of gas! I just want another one to try some different interior builds but this is my forever car I LOVE IT
It has been somewhere between 10 and 15 years since my poor 96 Oddy got crashed and totaled, and I still miss that car!
I’ve heard tell of slow-motion collisions, but 5 years is ridiculous.
I just learned Honda sold the upsized second-gen Odyssey in Japan where it was called LaGreat. And here I thought naming your car “Legend” was presumptuous…
I rode around around in these quite a bit as a colleague I frequently travelled for work with owned one (a 30-something woman who didn’t have kids; I never asked her why she chose a quasi-minivan as her ride). I also vacationed in the Bahamas about 10 years ago where one of these was used as a shuttle (this was also my first time in a LHD country; it felt weird sitting in the left front seat as a passenger). I believe these were still sold into the 2000s in some corners of the world; this one looked like it could be new.
Honda’s first minivan was very successful. It was able to land well here in the US and Honda was able to better understand what it needed to do with the redesign generation 2. I usually view first generation Honda products like I do a moon rover craft – an experiment to prepare Honda for the second generations.