Estate sales are great places to pick up household items you never knew you wanted, or at least to browse and see what unexpected treasures await. I expect surprises at these sales, but was unprepared to see this item: Wheeled out of the garage where it spent nearly all of its 45 years was a Volkswagen so uncommon, I can’t remember when I saw the last one. As a bonus, this is most likely the lowest-mileage example in North America. Behold: a 1971 Volkswagen 411 with 18,000 miles.
Most other shoppers ignored this aged VW, while others looked at it in puzzlement. Ironically, that’s the same scenario faced by Volkswagen when this car was introduced. The 411 was a car in search of a niche – not quite a VW and not quite a station wagon. Marketed as the best of both worlds, most consumers shrugged it off as overpriced Beetle. Even though these cars had their share of attributes, those qualities were overshadowed by the fact that few people wanted an air-cooled, rear-engine mid-size car. The 411’s failure to sell convinced VW of this, prompting Volkswagen to abandon the air-cooled concept once and for all. This perfectly preserved example well illustrates both the 411’s attributes and shortcomings.
In the 1960s, Volkswagen was regarded as The Beetle Company, having produced 11 million of the little Bugs by 1968. Although executives like president Karl Lotz publicly claimed that the Beetle would be produced “forever,” everyone knew that time was running short for the iconic economy car. Volkswagen needed to plan for a post-Beetle life.
VW’s first move towards a post-Beetle world was to diversify (with Beetle-based vehicles) into market segments beyond basic transportation. VW’s main effort at a slightly more upscale product offering was the 1500/1600, marketed as a mid-size family car. In hindsight, that car’s relative lack of success should have been a warning that most consumers were not interested in a noisy, slow, rear-engine car in a price category where other cars without those drawbacks were readily available. But that warning sign was not heeded.
Volkswagen prioritized developing a new mid-size offering in the 1960s, but early in the process made the fateful decision to design it as a rear-engine, air-cooled car. That format, it was thought, was VW’s distinguishing feature, and the company believed that the Volkswagen faithful would demand and appreciate continuing the air-cooled heritage.
The vehicle that emerged from this development was the 411 (it and the later 412 are collectively known as the ‘Type 4’). Before delving into what the 411 was, it’s important to consider what it was not: A Beetle.
That concept proved to be a tough sell. Yes, the 411 and the Beetle shared a VW badge, had offbeat styling, and featured an air-cooled engine in the back, but there were very few similarities between the two cars. However, from the beginning, people simply could not disassociate the 411 from the Beetle. In fact, many press articles of the day made some sort of reference to the 411 being an overgrown Beetle.
Beetle Brougham… VW executives must have cringed at this magazine cover.
The 411’s flat-four engine was in fact derived from the 1600’s, but was largely new, and slightly bigger at 1.7 liters. Featuring a strengthened block, an aluminum crankcase and completely redesigned cylinder heads, this was practically a new engine. European 411s were initially carbureted, but all US models received fuel injection – quite an advancement in 1971. For the US version, horsepower measured 85 @ 5,000 rpm.
While other Volkswagens were on their way to being classified as living fossils, the 411 was thoroughly modern in a number of respects. The car featured a unibody construction, and the suspension eschewed VW’s traditional torsion bars in favor of an independent suspension with MacPhearson struts up front, semi-trailing arms in the rear, and anti-roll bars at both ends.
Oddly, VW often marketed the 411 as a “luxury” car worldwide. Sometimes the references were sarcastic; sometimes they were not, but clearly this was a misnomer. The 411 had many attributes, but luxury was never one of them, and the whole concept likely misfired. Setting unrealistic expectations was not the marketing help that this car desperately needed.
The 411 came in two body styles, a 4-door sedan (VW’s first), and this version. It’s obviously a wagon, though VW called it a 3-door sedan in North America for 1971. For ’72, they faced reality and called it a wagon. In most other markets, the wagon was called the “Variant,” a name that is most often used when referring to the car today.
All 411s featured styling that was… unique. While the prominent headlights, a large, grille-less front end, and bathtub-inspired shape may have seemed uniquely Volkswagen, it wasn’t to the majority of buyers’ tastes. Furthermore, VW fitted stiff springs on the front end (presumably to keep the car balanced in case someone filled the front trunk with bricks), causing the 411’s front end to sit higher than the rear end.
The mid-size wagon market tends not to be a great place to test out novel design concepts, and the 411 fell flat in that most important of all areas: Appearance.
Climbing aboard, one was treated to an austere interior typical of German cars of its era. Nothing unnecessary here, but for Volkswagen this was rather upscale. Volkswagen was proud of their seats that were adjustable in 3 directions, a standard rear window defroster, and full carpeting throughout the interior.
The dashboard featured minimal instrumentation, and most functions were controlled by firm-feeling plastic knobs. That green knob on the right operates the heater, and this is one of the automotive world’s most interesting heaters. 411s featured both a conventional engine-blower heater, and also an auxiliary gasoline-powered heater capable of producing instant heat, and of operating when the car’s engine was not running.
VW’s hallmark of good fit and finish was evident in this car, but still the overall feel was not quite up to the “luxury” description as promoted in Volkswagen’s ads. The interior was not a terribly welcoming place, with a cold feel and hard (but supportive and large) vinyl seats (ED: these are seat covers in this car, not the original upholstery). One wonders how many potential buyers (those that could look past the odd exterior) were turned off by the austere interior. For a vehicle marketed as an upmarket mid-size car, this missed the target.
The rear cargo area reveals a limitation of rear-engine wagons, as the engine sits underneath. Liftover is high and the floor-to-roof dimension is small. Even grocery bags would block some of the (normally excellent) outward visibility. Of course, there is a front trunk as well.
Clever touches abounded in this car. For example, the fuel filler included a rubber flap to protect the fender from damage. The windshield washer was powered by compressed air from the spare tire. Airflow was individually controlled to the driver and passenger side via levers between the seats. A lot of thought was put into these and other details, but they didn’t compensate for the obvious shortcomings in many buyers’ minds.
Europe received 411s in 1969, but US customers waited until 1971 because VW did not want to sell the car stateside without an automatic transmission. A 3-speed automatic became standard on US models – a selling point among some consumers, but not something that helped the 411’s already meager power.
A 2,500-lb. automatic 411 would attain 60 mph in 18 seconds and top speed of 95 mph – not unheard-of for an economy car of the day, but nothing to brag about for a mid-size car costing $3,000.
Once underway, the 411 rode comfortably. However, the car featured rather vague steering, and somewhat jittery handling – reminding the driver that it was a tail-heavy car on skinny tires. It was reasonably comfortable, but did not excel in any one area.
VW’s high hopes for the car are evidenced by it being produced both in Germany and South Africa. Worldwide, the car was marketed as a luxury car (French and South African ads are shown above), but sales fell short of expectations just about everywhere.
Responding to criticism of the car’s design, Volkswagen introduced an updated version, the 412, for 1973. The design was all-new in front of the windshield, and the 412 gained an almost-nautical appearance with headlights recessed into the front panel. In the rear, the tail lights were also slimmed down, and the sum of these styling changes enhanced the car’s appearance. By that time, though, the Type 4’s fate was already sealed.
A total of 367,728 Type 4’s were produced worldwide between 1969 and 1974. Estimates of US sales vary between 44,126 and 117,110, but I am inclined to believe the lower number, given the car’s scarcity on US roads, even in the 1970s. Regardless, this was a disappointment; at its US introduction, Volkswagen officials estimated the car would generate 45,000 annual sales.
The Type 4 was an evolutionary dead end for Volkswagen. Its eventual replacement, the Dasher, was a front-engine, front-wheel drive car, as was every new VW thereafter. Type 4s were quickly forgotten, although the few that were sold tended to stick around for a while due to the cars’ renowned durability.
Our featured car rarely had that durability tested, having been driven on average 400 miles per year. Its owner passed away several years ago, and the car had not been registered since 2010. The owner’s children, who were running the estate sale, couldn’t quite decide what to do with the car… should they sell it, or keep it as a memento of days gone by? Given that it’s unlikely that the car sold on the day I saw it, I hope they chose the latter. Although the 411 is often regarded as an unloved car – even many VW enthusiasts apparently snub their noses at them – this particular example was loved, pampered and garaged for decades. Hopefully it found a new garage (or a museum) where it can remain a loveable oddball for decades to come.
The 411 was a good concept (well-engineered, durable wagon) with some interesting features, but while many of the details were on target, the big features missed the mark. Odd styling, tepid and noisy performance, a spartan interior and a high price is not a recipe for success. The Type 4 never found its niche, but let’s hope that this remarkable example did.
Photographed in McLean, Virginia in November, 2015
Related Reading:
Curbside Classic: 1974 Volkswagen 412 – VW’s Deadly Sin #1 Paul Niedermeyer
Ive seen one of these RHD with black/silver NZ plates so they did sell some here or maybe only that one, certainly an unusual car but still an aircooled VW, they hadnt moved far enough from the beetle.
They were sold in New Zealand, though not in Australia, as far as I know. In fact, I came across a number of references to New Zealand 411s, leading me to believe they were relatively popular in NZ (relatively, of course) when new.
I found it unusual that the Type 4s were not apparently sold in Australia, nor were they sold in Central or South America — both are areas were VW had a significant presence at the time.
The 411 was designed primarily for Germany first, Western Europe second, and…..not really anybody else. Meaning, it was too expensive to sell in those smaller and less affluent markets.And it explains why VW had a hard time deciding how to sell it in the US. Given that it didn’t come to the US two years after it it went on sale in Germany, I strongly suspect that VW wasn’t really sure about whether to sell it in the US. Obviously they knew it wasn’t going to be a good fit, price-wise. And that’s why they called it a luxury car, which is NOT how it was marketed in Germany.
It’s a classic case of VW’s Germanic-centric view, and then trying to figure out later how to sell it in the US. Anyway, the 411 was a bust in Germany right from the start, and that may well be the reason they even decided to sell it in the US, because they suddenly had lots of extra capacity.
The most important reason as to why they weren’t sold in Australia, Mexico and South America is because those markets had their own VW factories, and were tooled up to build the Type I, II and II, which all used a lot of common parts and technology. The 411 was very different from them, with a unibody and different suspension, engine, etc. It would have been very expensive to tool up for it.
they are really nice to drive there is only around 7 in the country as they are pretty ugly but an amazing car none the less
The 411 was sold in NZ and I saw one for sale in Christchurch in 1969 or 1970 for $NZ 7,000 known as the type 4. The price of a Holden Kingswood at the same time was about half that price. I bought one RHD from Germany in 1972 and shipped it back to NZ, Reg no HA8383 and I still have a spare key. It was sold in about 1979.
Excellent piece, Eric. I didn’t know much about these but you’ve really helped fill in the blanks. And a great set of pictures of this wonderful example! A great start to the week 🙂
I read somewhere that 411 stood for 4 doors 11 years too late! Also those heater levers were also used on beetles and type 3s.
and the spare tyre driven washer is not an exciting feature, speaking from experience.
Not to mention that I wouldn’t want to have to remember to top up the air in my spare if I’d been using the windshield washer! The two have no obvious connection so it would have been tough to remember…
Very true. VW recommended filling up the spare tire to 40 psi, and the hose connecting it to the windshield washer was fitted with some sort of valve that did not operate if the tire pressure dropped below 29 psi. So, if the tire was inflated to more than 29 psi, then the washer worked — otherwise, no washer.
The trick is to check your spare tire pressure regularly, but how many people do that?? It was a clever arrangement, but with a pretty big flaw.
VW drivers had been regularly topping up their spares for many years. 🙂 It was easier to do when one still had to lift the front hood on a Beetle to refuel them. The spare was right there staring at you.
The problem was as the valve or connecting hose aged they would leak and the spare would go completely flat. Up to 67 VW had a separate plastic tank that you added air to. When they failed the spare wouldn’t go flat. ’68 and newer all had the trouble prone spare air design. And super beetles and type 4’s spare tires were laid flat and hidden under a floor cover
The first thing I check when buying any used car is the spare. Without fail they have less than 15lbs in the space saver which needs 60 lbs. Very few people or tire shops ever check the spare.
Mrs. JPC grew up around VWs and had it drilled into her head from a young age to avoid using the windshield washer, just for that reason. This was probably why the factory fill of washer fluid on her 88 Accord lasted about 3 years.
A trip to the wrecking yard for a washer tank from a ’65 Beetle, and a little ingenuity fixed it for me. A terrible design that never worked right from new.
It’s ironic that one of the most respected luxury car manufacturers is Germany, and that VW (being German) doesn’t SEEM to have understood what made a car a luxury car.
The Beetle WAS VW, and synonymous with cheap/inexpensive, so making a bigger, more expensive Beetle wouldn’t make a luxury car.
In my opinion, the 411’s styling was a huge stumbling block, but dubbing it “a luxury car” was a colossal marketing mistake. (Though, I guess if folks thought Volvos and 4 cylinder Mercedes were “luxury cars”, I can’t blame the marketing dept…..completely.)
Considering how the car looked, they should have used a marketing theme along the lines of : “Everything you liked about the Beetle….in a bigger package”, or at least keeping the campaign whimsical, like the other VW ads.
It wasn’t designed to be a luxury car in Germany, and wasn’t marketed that way. It was just a mid/large car, like an Opel Rekord. The whole “luxury car” thing was created to sell it in the US and maybe some other export markets because it was expensive compared to the large domestic cars, and they had to use that angle. That was the problem for VW ever since the dollar went down in value right about the time the 411 came out: they couldn’t really sell their cars as super-cheap anymore, and were forced to go upscale.
Mercedes and BMW also had to deal with the weak dollar/strong Mark, but were in a far better position to do so than VW and both saw vastly rising sales even as their prices zoomed skyward. Ironically their high price seemed to actually help their sales, as it helped them become perceived as viable alternatives to the overly large Cadillacs and Lincolns even though they were actually quite sparse by luxury-car standards (at least as defined by Detroit).
I recall the Dasher also being pitched as a luxury car, particularly after the first facelift gave them more elegant looking interiors.
Good article, plenty to learn there. Nice looking car in the pics, although I got the cold shivers a bit when I saw it was an auto. Automatic on an air-cooled VW doesn’t sound like a fun time.
Actually the automatic was a “good” thing on the EFI engines. By comparison anyway. An injected squareback with manual was damn tricky to drive. The injection had a one-second delay and basically three switch-like throttle settings. With the automatic, those defects were concealed. You just stomped and hoped.
That’s not my experience, or of all of the reviews. The VW FI engine was praised precisely for its crisp throttle response.
Mine either, at least not in my friend’s 71 Squareback with the Bosch mechanical FI back in high school. You put it in gear and stomped on it and the noise level would increase immediately, the speed as well but not in direct correlation to the noise level increase. But no delay.
I’ve driven a few 411/412’s over the years and all the ones I saw had the Bosch D Jetronic electronic system with the humongous controller under the seat. The were actually quite reliable, and any problems with them were undoubtedly caused by Shade Tree Mechanics who didn’t know what they were doing. Changing out the filters regularly and this system would easily go twenty years with no issues.
Throttle response was always good. The condition of “three speeds” sounds like an air metering issue.
” The were actually quite reliable, and any problems with them were undoubtedly caused by Shade Tree Mechanics who didn’t know what they were doing. Changing out the filters regularly and this system would easily go twenty years with no issues.”
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_THIS_ .
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Back when I had a thriving side line buying , re habbing and re selling old VW’s (only Air Cooled) I was always happy to find one that hadn’t been touched and munged up by ham fisted dolts .
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Then they were dead easy (and cheap !) to make run even if the engine had a connecting rod through the block .
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The most delicate part of any BOSCH D-Jet system was the dang safety relay , it’d crap out causing the car to not start or to die underway , the routine fix was to by pass it , leaving serious FIRE possibility .
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The big aluminum box D-Jet brain was never under the rear seat ~ it was in cooling air flow inside the left ‘C’ pillar on all models so equipped .
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Good lord how I miss my one owner Sand Beige 1971 Typ III Fastback with three speed automatic and steel sunroof .
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-Nate
I remember my father taking his Squareback to the dealer to fix the “jumpy” throttle, whatever the cause. Maybe the throttle response was smooth, but only with an occasional tweaking. I also remember it running better when cold than most other cars on the road, in those days of stutter-prone early smog control technology.
I remember when these came out and VW tried to make us all think that these were the next Big Thing. They were not, but I still saw them in small but steady numbers. I wonder if the heavy percentage of folks of German ancestry in my hometown made these a teeny bit more popular there than normal.
They struck me as VWs that had all of their well-known charm removed.
The flat six in the 911 was gaining displacement pretty fast in the early seventies. A 2.7 version tuned for more low end power with say 120hp and 160 foot pounds of torque could have made a 411 come alive, and work better with the automatic. It would have also raised the price but that could have been minimized by Mexican production along side the Thing. By the seventies there were buyers in the USA for something different and foriegn.
I’m surprised they called it a luxury midsize, because they’re not much bigger than the VW Squareback – Fastback. I like the updated style that the Squareback was lacking, and I thought it would be a replacement. Maybe it should have been introduced during the early 60s , when VW prices were lower and there was much less competition from the Japanese auto makers. I remember seeing more of these in Europe, where they didn’t come with the quad headlights, but single oval headlights on each side. I thought that looked kind of strange.
Agreed that the 411 wagon’s Squareback like appearance and size had to create some confusion about its merits.
I did get some time in a couple of Squarebacks as a child, and the 411 does appear “luxurious” by comparison, but that isn’t saying much.
Those single oval headlights did look strange, and VW probably realized that. They were offered in Europe only for the 1969 model year, after which even the European 411s received the quad headlights.
I remember when these appeared on the market. There was an sensation the VW was in denial and moving backwards. Even with the OPEC embargo of ’73, no body wanted them because Toyota and Datsun had the better mouse trap.
This example appears to be in excellent shape. I hope it finds a home where it would be maintained and appreciated. ??????
What a find! I have perhaps seen one or two of these ever and it’s been a long time since that has happened.
Your statement about VW selling as many of these in total as they wanted to sell per year in the US made me think how the Edsel did about the same thing sales wise. I wouldn’t quite call it VW’s Edsel, however.
The perception when new of this being a nothing but a bigger Beetle is sadly understandable. With all the basic formula still there, it was likely to happen, especially since VW was at a far end of the bell curve for what was being sold here at the time. Plus, there is a certain subset of the population who STILL associate VW with nothing but the Beetle. When I told a coworker some time I ago I had purchased a VW, he asked how well the three of us could fit in that tiny car. He was rather befuddled when I pointed out a Passat as we were going down the road.
This one looks nice and ready for ‘ Hobby Car ‘ retirement , gentle use and the odd show .
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If you dislike these , wait’ll there’s an article on VW’s K70 .
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-Nate
Thanks for the 411 on the, uh, 411! For some reason I had no idea these were sold at the same time as the Squareback, I always assumed that they replaced it. I wonder if that was the intention or if the sales numbers made it otherwise. I’m not sure if its a beautiful car but it certainly is a beautiful find, thanks for writing about it.
The 1500/1600 Type III was always something of a disappointment in Europe after the first couple of years because it sat on the same wheelbase as the Beetle, hence it had only a small amount of more room, except for being a bit wider. The lack of a four door really hurt; Germans (and most of Europe) had migrated away from two-door sedans to 4 doors as the basic family vehicle, and the Type III did’t have them.
So VW decided it needed a genuine Opel Rekord/Ford Taunus competitor, and they increased the size of an earlier prototype that was going to be a Type III replacement, to create the 411.
The 411 was a bomb in Germany. I very strongly suspect that VW never intended to sell the 411 in the US for precisely the reasons why it failed: it was too expensive to compete against American domestic cars and failed to have any of the features that made a German car worth more money, like the other German imports: Audi, BMW, MBZ, etc.
The 411 only came to the US after it had been for sale in Europe for two years; they undoubtedly had excess capacity and decided to give it a go.
Eric,
Remarkable find! As you know from our brief in-person encounter, McLean is where I live, so this car is probably within a walk or jog from my house. I frequent local estate sales for the unusual finds from past eras as well, but I missed this one. At estate sales the cars are usually Lincoln Town Cars, Cadillac DeVilles, Buicks, or Toyota Camrys (Camries?), so I can imagine the excitement of running across something as unusual as a VW 411.
Can you tell me the street, or if possible the exact address, where you found it? I would like to stop by and see if the 411 is visible. If it still around after several months and the price is right, I might even be tempted to buy it. I have been considering putting my Olds Custom Cruiser up for sale, and this 411 Variant could be a good “downsized” substitute classic cargo hauler!
I’ll e-mail you the street — I’m really curious to know what eventually happened to this car.
You’re definitely right about estate sale cars, though — the prototypical estate sale car is a 10-year-old Camry with low mileage and more than its share of granny dents. It’s unusual to see any unique car at an estate sale, so I was thrilled to find this one.
Hmmm. My (at that time, future) brother-in-law had one of these in the early to mid 70’s and it died an unfortunate death by burning itself to the ground. I seem to recall that was a fairly common occurance with these….
The gas powered heater maybe?
No ;
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It was _always_ failure to maintain the car properly ~ the BOSCH D-Jetronic Fuel Injection System ran at 32 PSI and needed _all_ those damned hoses changed every 12 ~ 18 months or you were chancing things .
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I used to warn my Customers , few listened , many came back on the hook , burned usually B.E.R. .
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-Nate
I recall seeing quite a few in flames here in SoCal.
There was also a two-door fastback sedan, but it might’ve been a late arrival. I always wondered why the 411/412 wagon wasn’t a four-door.
VW’s brochures always showed cloth upholstery options, and the infamous rubbery basketweave “leatherette” was listed as an optional extra, but cloth is so rare it must’ve been a de facto customer-special -order only item.
The upholstery in this featured car is NOT original; some kind of seat cover that looks terrible, all wrinkly. The 411 had many faults, but it was well built with quality materials, including its upholstery, cloth or vinyl.
I’m mostly on board with this car’s styling, particularly the four door.
Where is loses me is that shot of the dash / front compartment. Unless it’s just a problem with camera perspective, the 1930’s like narrowing of the compartment below the dash would have been a complete joke to “mid-size” American buyers in 1971. At 6’1″ with size 13 feet, I wouldn’t have bothered setting my right foot in the car, because the left foot was never going to make it in.
The perception of VW in ’71 where I lived was that the brand was sort of sub Chevy, Ford and Plymouth. A Bug or Squareback was a cheap alternative to a Nova, Falcon or Valiant and used to make grocery runs as cheaply as possible. VWs were second cars. Selling the 411 at mid-trim mid-size Oldsmobile Cutlass S V-8 pricing guaranteed this car wasn’t going to sell in the period before gas prices became a concern.
Another major issue with the $3,000+ price point would have been HVAC. Not only did Americans expect a decent heater, most willing to spend that kind of money were demanding an excellent air conditioner as well.
In many ways, Americans had seen this car before, introduced in 1960 as the Chevrolet Corvair. Chevy had cancelled the Corvair after 1969. The 411 was a pricey anachronism.
Actually, the Squareback/Fastback was never a cheaper alternative to American domestics; it generally cost as much or more then they did. It did not sell on price, but sold mainly to VW loyalists who wanted something a bit bigger and faster.
The fact that the Squareback/Fastback was already expensive compared to the domestic compacts made the case for the 411 next to impossible. It was never designed for the US market, but brought over here because it was a sales bomb in Germany, and VW had excess capacity. But there just was no good case for selling it here successfully.
You’re right: the 411 was almost the exact same size as the Corvair. With a smaller engine. Not a recipe for success in the 1970s.
I was a bit suspect about my comment on price, I have absolutely no price data on VW products in my library.
Where the Bugs and Squares fit in my neighborhood was as second cars almost always bought second hand – usually a few years old and in very good condition. My folks considered imitating a few of their neighbors and friends, we even went to Sayers VW and looked at a few Bugs around 1972. Crawling into the cubby on what was a package shelf in American cars was something I recall – probably to the chagrin of the salesman.
The point for these middle age middle class buyers with children and a big GM car in the driveway seemed to be the perception of getting something cheap, fuel efficient and “nothing to break.”
Our neighbor’s driveway became absolutely bi-polar after 1974. Three Buicks and three Squares.
Another bi-polar driveway was my friend’s folks that inherited an absolutely loaded mint 1964 Cadillac Sedan DeVille and had a VW Square along side it – the sloped back and rear trunk over the engine. I don’t recall what that was called. Those two cars were absolutely fascinating to a child used to an endless stream of full-size Chevys.
In 1971, the Squareback cost $2719. A Nova started at $2405. A Chevelle started at $2712.
I think part of the perception of VW as “cheap” in our middle class neighborhood would have been the willingness of average buyers to load up a Nova or Chevelle with features that were rare or not available on a VW. In ’71, Chevy sold 37k base Chevelles, and a quarter million in Malibu trim. V-8, automatic, power steering, AC, vinyl roof and AM radio was probably average.
Typical ’71 Chevelle…
Malibu V-8 Coupe $2,980
Automatic $300?
AC $408
PS $100
Vinyl Top $95
AM Radio $65
Sticker $3,948
Average transaction price had to be north of $3,800. 80,000 Chevelles were SS models, which were probably closer to $4,500 out the door. The economy perception of the VW for people like my Impala driving parents had to be the near impossibility of finding a typical VW priced anywhere close to the average transaction price of an American car. The VW’s on my street were paired with a ’71 Chevelle Malibu coupe, a ’67 Bonneville coupe, a ’70 Buick LeSabre and Skylark, and eventually a ’73 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham four door hardtop with all the trimmings – a $7,000 car that replaced the Bonneville.
Considering the relatively rare and disappointing experience of an optionless base Nova and the cheerful experience of probably a better equipped base VW, it was likely perceived as a better value by many as an entry level car.
Plus, in middle-class neighborhoods like where I grew up, there was a completely different vibe coming from the person who bought a VW and the person who bought a stippo Falcon or Chevy II. The VW buyer was viewed as “smart” while the stripper American compact buyer was viewed as a tightwad. I don’t think a lot of people cross-shopped a VW with a basic American compact.
It’s hard to judge it from the photo, but I’ve usually found VWs to have more room in front to stretch out than many wider RWD cars, even with the narrowing. Of course, the narrowing is the result of the wheel housings intruding further back than on other cars, even FWD models. But as long as the accelerator is far enough away, and there is enough room around the brake and (if present) clutch to stretch one’s left leg, I’d probably find it comfortable. I cringe at the thought of a right-hand-drive version of that car though, with the accelerator either way to close or too far left. It’s odd the way VW angled and rounded off the surface of the wheel housings between the door and the pedals; I guess they figured it would look better and no one would miss that space anyway. The wheel housing was probably too close to mount a “dead pedal” on it.
Obviously this car was generating SOME interest…YOU looked it over. But at what final selling price? That may have determined its fate.
Informative post. These cars are quite rare; I think I’ve seen one in the flesh maybe once or twice, and only from a distance. Their technical specifications sounds exotic, though, and I thoroughly appreciate their looks. Doing a resto-mod with a Subaru EJ22 would result in a car much faster and nearly as durable. VW probably shouldn’t have tried to sell a pricey car using sheer economy as a merit; as an earlier poster mentioned, Porsche flat-sixes were readily available and would’ve offered performance commensurate with the car’s price tag in the eyes of US buyers.
A rear engined station wagon/sedan is exotic? It was in the 1930s, but I don’t know about 1971. It was a horribly out of date concept by that time, with way too many shortcomings.
The Porsche engine was very expensive and built in low volumes back then. It was not a realistic option for the 411.
The 411 was designed for Germany, and not for the US. It was designed to compete against the Opel Rekord and Ford Taunus; basic mid-large family-hauler sedans and wagons; the big Chevy and Ford of Germany.
But it’s not what Germans wanted; they wanted something really new, and more efficient and zippy, not another dull, slow, inefficient rear engined VW on steroids. The 411 was a sales bomb in Germany, for good reasons. The rear engine concept should have been abandoned decades earlier. The 411 was VW’s Waterloo; their Deadly Sin. And VW did have a very severe existential crisis at this point.
The 411 was most likely never planned to be sold in the US, for all the obvious reasons, since it was too expensive to build and couldn’t compete with the domestics or the imports. It was DOA, just as it had been in Europe. It was a colossal and embarrassing mistake. It might have worked a decade earlier. Maybe…
But VW’s crisis, as often is the case, brought a wholesale revolution, and VW made the long overdue switch to modern Audi-designed/inspired FWD cars. And the rest is history.
Well yeah, to someone born in ’83, a mass-market car with a rear-mouted flat-four is anything but ordinary. And wouldn’t adding scale to the flat-six’s production lower per unit cost? $3000 in 1971 wasn’t particularly cheap (not exactly pricey, either). The world and VW were a different company back then, I understand. No illusions of the car being a success in Germany, either.
The concept is somewhat interesting, i.e. VW-Porsche tried it in the 914 with a flat-six option and the 912 was pretty much the reverse move, right? The six cost quite a bit more but a lot of that may have been more marketing than actual cost. I think Porsche was probably manufacturing constrained in the early 70’s which would preclude any huge savings from building more sixes and VW would have had to set up a new assembly line for its own version if they wanted it with no guarantee of success.
If you think about it further it would be similar to what Subaru did, i.e. they only had a four and then added a six when they realized there was SOME small demand for them and they could charge more for them. And some cars (like the Tribeca) really needed a six anyway, in the Outback it was/is nice to have, and the SVX was more credible with it than it would have been without it (albeit a failure nonetheless).
A factory six in the Vanagon (and later Kombi’s before that) would have perhaps had huge appeal.
At the time the problems probably had a lot to do with the gasoline politics etc of that general era, the advance of “green” environmental politics in Germany, and VW likely not wanting to step on Audi’s or Porsche’s toes. Also, at the time, Porsche was heavy into starting to experiment with turbos at least on their sixes which could have been another way to go although at the time that was definitely exotic tech.
Your comment about a rear-mounted flat four is funny, things haven’t changed any, almost EVERY time I wash my car and there are little kids playing in the street at least one of them stops by and is astounded when I open the front trunk and there’s no engine. When I then open the back and show them the engine they still have a hard time believing it since it’s so shoved in there with the airbox etc. in the way of the view and looking nothing like the one in their Dad’s Jeep or Highlander or whatever.
Most likely there were one or two Porsche six powered 411s running around Wolfsburg or Zuffenhausen, for the engineers or execs to drive. But the marketing reality was something different, and at this particular time, relations between Porsche and VW were not so good.
In fact it was precisely this problem that tanked the 914/6. VW’s new exec was not very friendly with Porsche, and charged Porsche way more for the VW-built 914 body than had been expected. That’s what drove up the price of the 914/6; it was almost exactly the same as the 911T.
Porsche was geared to its small-scale production back then. It’s conceivable that VW might have bought a small number of 911 engines to build essentially a 911 sedan, with other Porsche components (brakes, transmission, etc.) But the price would have been in a completely different sphere, and not a mass-market car.
More realistically, VW could have made a six cylinder version of their pushrod six, which they did later with the ‘wasserboxer’, although that engine was pulled from production at the last minute, and was built by Oettinger. But in 1969 or so, the market for a six cylinder VW was undoubtedly limited too, and VW chose not to go that route.
Part of this was that it would undoubtedly have been an problem with Audi, which had no sixes back at this time, when Audi was clearly the premium brand and VW the low-priced brand. It would have created confusion and internal dissent.
The market for mass market sixes in the late 60s in Germany was still quite small. At this time only few folks bought a six cylinder Mercedes, and BMW was just coming out with theirs. Opel and Ford had sixes, but they were also upscale versions. This would have been solidly in Audi’s territory.
There is a small group that loves the 411-412. I hope one of them purchases this car and preserves it. These cars were not all automatics, you could also get a 4 speed. I do recall the majority were automatics. Seem to remember most wagons being auto while the sedans were more likely to have a 4 speed. Great find. There are a lot of fuel lines that will need to be replaced before this car gets a trial start, or it could become a crispy critter. Back in the day, these cars, along with 914’s and FI Buses would burn to the ground due to fuel leaks if the fuel hoses weren’t replaced on a regular basis.
There was no factory AC, but many had (troublesome) VPC or DPD installed at the port or added by the dealership, at least in SoCal.
The paint, especially in metallic colors, did not hold up well under the blistering SoCal sunshine.
Well, at least in the first year or two, the automatic really was standard. Click on the ad in the post; it clearly says so. But that may have changed with the later years.
I think the 2 door 411 fastbacks were available with a manual , while the 4 door and wagon were automatics only.
Yes, that seems to be the case. The 412 ads for the 4 door and wagon I’ve found still say the automatic is standard, but the 2 door had a $300 lower price, which strongly suggests that a big part of that was a standard manual transmission.
That’s what it was, only the 2 door sedans could have a stick. Now I remember!
Here in Canada both were offered during the lifespan of the cars. Most of the ones I saw were manuals.
Love this find! I don’t recall ever seeing a 411 “in the metal” and didn’t even know they existed until a few years ago. I actually think the Variant is good-looking, if a bit awkward. Just 18,000 miles is amazing–hopefully it went to someone who will care for this rarity for years to come!
One has to wonder how much Jagermeister was harmed in the making of this automobile. Just goofy. I remember thinking to myself, at the age of 6 or 7, in the early 70s, “you call this a Volkswagen?”
Herbie the love bug was cute. The Kombie, with that strange jockstrap pattern on the front, also had an oddly happy look to it. The early Type 3s kept with that tradition by sporting a goofy-grinning, lip-like hood-grip between the headlights. They all had faces. But toward the end of the 1960s, VW seemed to have gained an affinity for bland, cold, faceless rectangular shapes; they must have seen “The Thing” as the future of high style. So it was no surprise that the Golf/Rabbit, a competent car, but as ugly as an off-brand toaster oven, became their next real success.
An acquaintance of mine got a ’72 411 some years ago. The appeal for him was that he wouldn’t meet himself going down the road. I think there are any number of better cars that offer individuality, but different strokes for different folks.
I have seen a couple of VW 411’s in the metal in the last 20 years. I like the looks of them.
One thing I could never figure is why VW chose to mount the license plate in the middle between the lights instead of just mounting it on the front bumper? I find the license plate mounted where it is to be odd looking.
Good thing I wasn’t at that estate sale or I might have at least tried to take that home. As with quite a few cars from the past (too many, if you must know), whatever disdain I once held for this has gone away, and I think it’s actually … pretty! Winsome, handsome, gawky in an endearing sort of way. To be honest, its only functional flaw as an urban errand-runner is its limited cargo depth and poor access to the back seats/forward cargo area. As for the poor dynamics, nervous handling is a problem with the 1500 Squareback/Liftback too, but juggling with spring rates and tire pressure can make a difference. I’m pretty sure that softening the front end would help a lot.
I think the VW family is the one I’ve most extensively driven without having ever owned a single example. Ignoring for the moment my beloved’s antipathy towards the entire tribe, I remember how much I’ve enjoyed every Beetle I’ve driven, even as delivery vehicles (Anchorage Daily Times, 10/64-4/65), and the daily experience of seeing fine examples out and about Los Angeles County every day reminds me of how easy it would be to get a good one.
The only memory this car ever made with me was a couple of years after it had disappeared from the market: A television(?) ad starring King Kong (“well it was a LARGE Volkswagen”) done by stop motion animation specialist Mike Jitlov. Very well done (the ad, not the car) although a search on You Tube didn’t come up with anything alongside all the other Jitlov stuff shown.
Great article so thank you and now I know what I found in Portland. Perhaps I will find some more. I like the Virginia plates too boot.
The only car we’ve seen in an estate sale was a 1946 Lincoln 2-dr sedan. Obviously been garaged for years, no visible rust, tires pumped up, perfect light pea-green paint under about a quarter-inch of dust. Claimed to be near-perfect and a runner. NOT for sale at that point – it went for auction later. But it did pull us into the garage, and we walked out with a big old oscillating floor fan for $30. Which we still have, about 30 years later …
I would like to know what happened to this 411.
Fuel Injection was very voltage sensitive in Winter – Turn on key and listen to fuel pump whine. If not high whine, would not start. Always carried 2nd battery. Liked car but was electronics troublesome.
Great article – very enjoyable. I can remember when these were first introduced and the whole “luxury” marketing effort – and even then thinking how disconnected that was. I’m not sure whether the car could have been successful on its own merits, but the marketing campaign put it in a real hole. Took VW a few decades and a few acquisitions to figure out how to sell a broad range of vehicles in the economy, middle and luxury segments.
While I encounter a Type 3 every now and then, I’ve never once seen one of these, not for decades anyway.
There must have relatively more of these cars in Canada, or at least on mild Vancouver Island where I spent my teen years. My first girlfriend had one, passed from her sister, who in turn had it passed from her mom. These were Landed Gentry types, with lots of money, and they tended to good and funky automotive choices. They also had the will and the money to keep all their machines in top shape, too. The 411 was really well built. The doors had a “whump” lacking in domestic and Japanese cars of the time, and all the materials looked like they’d last a zillion years. With the automatic, it was a slow as molasses in the tundra, but with teenagers, this is not a bad thing and in fact was intentional!
My Yale Prof uncle had a 412 wagon and he was never much of a stickler for maintenance. His lasted about ten years, whereas the one my gf had was destroyed in a fire at age 25.
I think I’ve seen this vehicle. I live in Fairfax, which is not that far from Mclean. Thanks for the article. I’ve really enjoyed the read.
I AM IN NZ AND HAVE A 71 4 DOOR SAT IN MY GARDEN, IT WAS PARKED OUTSIDE FOR OVER 15 YEARS , I CLEANED THE POINTS N PLUGS PUT SOME FUEL DOWN THE CARBS AND AWAY SHE WENT, AT FIRST I COULDNT KEEP IT RUNNING UNTILL I REALISED IT HAD TO BE IN NUETREL TO START BUT THEN MOVED INTO PARK AS I PRESSUME THE CLUTCH IS SIEZED, YES ITS AUTO BUT THEY ARE ONLY AN AUTO CLUTCH NOT THE GEARBOX. IT NEEDS FLOORS AND SILLS NOT SURE WHAT TO DO AS I ORIGANILY PURCHASED IT FOR THE ENGINE TO PUT IN MY 60,S BEACH BUGGY
As a teenager in MN, my first “car” was a Simca 1204. We found two…and made one that was ugly but functional. My mom was worried that the Simca would be the death of me, so she helped me finance the purchase of a mint 1971 411 wagon (in 1978). I was 16. It cost $1,100, and I paid it off over two years. I think she “forgave” the final $400!
I loved that car. The suspension was fantastic. It drove like a dream. The rear seats folded down flat and there was room in the front trunk for just about anything.
I never used the “gas” heater, as I didn’t want to die or catch on fire. I remember the relative tedium of cleaning and re-oiling the oil-foam air filter…and readjusting the valve clearance every 6,000 miles.
Thankfully, two doors down was Haselkampf’s Garage. A German mechanic who had an independent VW service shop in his back yard. I mowed his lawn…and he tuned up my sweet ride for pennies on the dollar. Truly a kinder, gentler era!
My buddy nearly killed the 411 one day on the highway. He switched off my ignition while we were at highway speed…just to be an ass. He shifted into neutral while coasting and turned the ignition back on — and the exhaust “exploded” and the muffler went sailing down the highway. The car sounded like a Cessna with straight pipes. I drove to Haselkampf’s (of course) and my buddy ponied up the $200 to install a new exhaust.
A few years later while in college in Fargo, ND, the Bosch fuel injection was a real pain. At temps below -10F (common then in ND), I’d have to pull the fuse for the injectors, start the car on whatever fuel was in the injector bodies, and run the thing for a few seconds until the engine stopped. Then I’d replace the fuse and start the engine for real, sometimes having to repeat the procedure several times! I got tired of all that messing around, so I installed a fuel injector power switch on the dashboard!
Near the end of its life, after five years in ND, the 411 was getting rough and it had no real heat whatsoever. I’d commute home every now and then (150 miles) in the dead of winter while wearing a snowmobile suit and arctic survival boots! I’d occasionally have to scrape the INSIDE of the windshield with a plastic ice scraper or it would be impossible to see through the windshield.
My dad HATED my winter excursions with the then-heaterless VW…but not enough to do anything about it. 🙂
I was just telling someone the other day that I’d love to find a “new” 411 wagon, as I really loved that air-cooled oddity… 🙂
–Kirk in MN
I don’t see why this car was significantly more expensive than the Type 3; were they inherently expensive to build or was it that so few copies were made that the R&D costs were divided fewer ways. Or was it that VW was willing to take a haircut on the Type 3 (which must have been more expensive to build, at least for the U.S. market, than its carbureted competitors) and drew the line with this project? It seems that the car would have had a better chance of being viable if produced in a lower cost country than Germany and that it would have had a more natural niche in places like Canada and Sweden, where the superiority of a rear-engine over even FWD would have mattered. With some more power, they could have pushed it as a “poor man’s Porsche with room for 5” to justify its relative spartan-ness. I wonder if air conditioning or even power steering were offered; the unavailability of either would be costly in a place like the U.S.
If it were still for sale, I would consider purchasing it!! I have always liked these and the 412’s!! I would so daily this car!! Especially if it has the gas heater in it!! It gets cold in the Detroit area and a good heater in a VW is a very welcome thing!! Thanks for the very informative article!! I’ve learned something new today!!!
We had one. I believe it was a 1972, and it was a yellow wagon and a couple years old when we got it. The story, according to my father, was that a serviceman bought it while stationed in Germany and brought it back with him, which explained the Euro-spec bumpers and German rather than English script on the inside. Whether this is really true is lost to time – I can’t really remember those details and no pictures of it survive that I know of. This was quite a departure for my Dad, who had only owned mid sized and full sized Fords. Things I remember – laying on the package shelf in the back (as you did as a kid in the mid-70s) was a tooth-rattler and hot and loud. Dad never drove it on the interstate because it had retread tires. My Mom loved it because it was a beast in the snow. It had that VW “smell”, you know what I’m talking about. We had it a couple of years and sold it to a young lady who had it for YEARS after that. We saw it all the time. While we owned it, our neighbors two doors down bought a 1974 412. What are the odds? And lest you think we lived in Berkeley or Brookline, nope, Roanoke County (Vinton), VA.
I have had five Type 4s over the past 36 years: two 411s like this one and three 412s. A strange and lonely calling for sure! But I’ve been hooked this long and don’t expect to leave this world without still owning one. I currently own two 412s, both in excellent condition, living in the Seattle area.
I wonder what became of this 411! Would love to know its whereabouts.
I, like many others, felt that VW missed the mark with the 411/412. I disagree that a rear engine, air cooled car was outdated at the time. VW had an opportunity to keep their traditions. First, the dumpy styling. It was not ugly, but certainly not good looking either. Why was the wagon only two doors? Why no rear trunk on the 2 and 4 door sedans like the Type 3 Fastback/Notchback/Ghia? Or really, a hatchback for those two? I think with better styling, four doors for the wagon, a hatchback with flat load floor, sales would have been considerably better.
I had a new 411 station wagon in 1971, bought new in St. Louis just after I got out of Vietnam. Had it for 4 years while in college. I remember the auto trans had very little power and would almost not back uphill. It had trouble starting in very cold weather and twice I had to replace one of the expensive fuel injectors. The VW dealer said they had split apart in the cold and poured gas all over the top of the pancake engine, which scared me. After the second fuel injector broke, I sold it and bought a 1969 Chevy Nova 6 for $500 which I drove with few problems for 8 more years, when it started burning oil. I sold it for $450 and bought another Chevy Nova for $500.
I enjoyed your article on the VW 411 find. Back in the mid 1970’s I too had a 1971 VW 411. I bought it used. It was the four door, in orange color with black leatherette interior and automatic.
It was a good car with more room than my old Beetle. The gas powered heater was badly needed to keep warm in the winter, and was unique for the time. ( you knew it was working when you heard the fuel pump for it ticking, and it had its own fans to force the hotter air into the cabin ).
One problem I had was the steering wheel shimmy at 50+ MPH. Found out the McPhearson struts ( like on the Super /beetle ) had a factor in this problem. Possibly because of the lighter weight of the front end. Sorry not positive about this.
A little latter my Dad bought one, same yr. but the light yellow color with tan cloth interior. Two 1971 VW 411s in the same driveway. Some people might say good some might say bad. At the time I thought it was good.
My dads version had a thing in cold weather, on cold start up the engine idle would go up and down, causing the back end of the car to raise up and down at idle, until the engine got warm. Thought that was funny. Can’t remember how he got that resolved. ( 45 yrs. ago ).
At the time we thought they drove well and were unique. With the trunk up front and gas tank, people would look at you funny putting your groceries in front and or filling the gas tank.
It was a bigger car for Volkswagen back then for those who wanted more room in a Volkswagen car. Not counting the Bus. It would be nice to find one that was restored to original condition. Maybe some day.
Thank You
I grew up with Volkswagen’s in Germany and it was a great family car. It usually did not let you down and the fuel injection was very responsive for a 1.7l engine. As mentioned before mechanics in North America did not know the system well enough. Thats why they were changed to carbs. It was faster then the bus and bug on the Autobahn. The little engine screamed at 155km/h top speed. We did not have big American boats on the road. It was Opel Admirals or Kadetts, VW bugs or buses, Mercedes 200 and 220 diesels. Occasionally a Citroen, Fiat 500,… That was the European era of the car. Great car and guess what, I own one here in Canada too. A 1971 411E.
I had 3 type 4’s when living in Seattle in the mid to late 1980’s, Loved them for the quirkiness. First one was a 411 automatic…doggy performance with that three speed slush box. The next two were 412s, both with manuals…much better imo. I flipped all of them, buying them non-operating relatively cheaply. All were dead with the same problem, wouldn’t start. It was usually the single ground connection on the center stud on the block that would get greasy, and poor connections to the fuel injectors. Clean them up and tighten the connections and they usually fired right up. Every one I immediately replaced ALL the injection hoses and clamps, and the gas heater hoses. The gas heaters were great in those cold foggy winters, but you had to slavishly replace all the fuel hoses to keep them operating safely. I’m still into quirky VW’s, still enjoying a 1982 VW vanagon diesel Westfalia for occassional camping. Yes, with a diesel heater, too. Slow, reliable (don’t overheat it) and always a conversation starter, as there were so few made when they were new, and very few left on the road.