After negotiating a deal with our niece to trade the Sentra for a summer of help with our son, we were now in the market for a vehicle more appropriate for a growing family. Our My endgame for this search was the total inverse of PonderosaMatt’s when he bought his Yaris for his family of three — I was going BIG!
My fondness for the Caravan actually goes back a ways, and there were really no other cars I was considering. There was the week I spent driving my aunt’s 1984 Caravan, appreciating how it seated us all comfortably. In 1999, when my wife and I took a trip down to Florida, the rental company handed us the keys to a Grand Caravan instead of the economy car we reserved. While it seemed ridiculous at first, it turned into a blessing when we went out with my parents and my great aunt and uncle. Besides enabling us to all ride in one vehicle, we marveled at how easily my elderly aunt was able to maneuver getting in and out of the sliding side door. Finally, we rented another Grand Caravan during a trip to Connecticut while we were living in Wisconsin. It was so easy to get our son in and out of his rear-facing child seat, and my wife was able to walk down the center aisle to the third row to soothe him when he started to cry. He hated facing rear.
However, moving to Wisconsin, buying a house, living on one income, selling the house at a loss, and moving back to Connecticut all in a year had taken us from over $50,000 in savings to over $10,000 in debt. In addition, my wife was only working part time (albeit as a pediatrician), and I had yet to find a job. Decidedly not the best time to buy a car, but the future looked bright. Shadow was paid off, and we were living in a small, inexpensive apartment. Since we still had good credit, we qualified for an auto loan with no money down.
Besides my history with the Grand Caravan, there were two additional reasons I focused on this model and the Chrysler Town & Country. First, removable rear seats are great if you have somewhere to put them. For apartment dwellers, Stow-N-Go is a godsend. Second, these vans depreciate horribly after leaving the lot. So, I figured I could pick up a 2006 model for about the price of a loaded new Corolla. I test drove an SE model with the 3.3-liter engine, but the 3.8 in the SXT was a much better match for the extended-length vans. I also preferred the power doors, steering wheel audio controls, and other niceties of that trim.
This was the picture from the internet advertisement.
I pulled out my trusty spreadsheet from when we bought Shadow and adapted it for a used car purchase, substituting the asking price for the MSRP and the Kelly Blue Book average trade-in value in place of the invoice price. In my search, which was around July 2007, I was surprised to see a 2007 SXT in Inferno Red with 18,119 miles less than an hour away for only a little more than the 2006’s. The other nice thing about this van was that, according to the Carfax report, it was titled as just a leased vehicle, not a leased/rental vehicle. That doesn’t necessarily mean it wasn’t a rental, since not many private individuals lease vehicles for less than a year. If it was a rental, I was hoping that, being a minivan, it wasn’t subject to the same abuse that cars receive.
We took a test drive, then took it home for the night so it could be checked out by our mechanic. With a clean bill of health, we returned to the dealer the next morning to talk turkey. The asking price was $20,822, already a significant drop from the $27,775 MSRP (plus destination). Based on my calculations using the KBB trade-in value, I found $20,759.75 to be a fair out-the-door price, and ultimately negotiated $20,825 out-the-door.
After the papers were signed, they handed us one [1] key. Now, I distinctly remember two keys at some point.
I asked, “Where’s the other key?”
“That’s the only key we have.”
“There were two keys yesterday. We need two keys.”
“You’re welcome to buy another one from our parts department.”
“That’s unacceptable. You need to provide two keys.”
“Sorry, when we bought this from auction, it probably only came with one key.”
“We have a problem then.”
“Yes, I guess we do have a problem,” was the salesman’s reply, and then he looked at me with that and what are you going to do about it look. It’s funny how their attitude changes after all of the paperwork is signed. Grudgingly, we accepted his offer of a second key at cost, which was about $100 since the fob was part of the key. A couple of weeks later, the “non-existent” other key arrived in the mail.
Despite this little setback, we started enjoying all of the room available in “Carlo.” Within the first couple of weeks, we had the opportunity to drive several relatives home from a party, something we would never have been able to do without three rows of seats. The following July 4th, we flipped the third row into tailgate mode and watched the fireworks. About six months after that, we did expand our family with the birth of our daughter, somewhat justifying the purchase. It turns out that she hated being rear facing as much as our son, so either my wife or I made plenty of use of that third row during her first year.
Inside, the Grand Caravan had those nifty black-on-silver day/green-on-black night gauges. All of the controls were easily accessible, and all of the seats except for the middle captain’s chairs – the main drawback of Stow-N-Go – were comfortable with plenty of legroom. Since the middle rows contained either car or booster seats, that wasn’t an issue. While there was an optional console that could be placed between the front seats, I loved that the space in ours was completely open, which only enhanced the utility of the vehicle. There were plenty of places to store items even without the console. We experienced that first hand when we rented a house for a week near Point Pleasant on the Jersey Shore, and the entire van, including every single storage space, was filled with stuff. How did we ever get along without Carlo?
Carlo in the driveway of our beach rental on the Jersey Shore
Other highlights included finding a bargain on a race-car bed for our son at a tag sale and easily transporting it home. Moving items between the apartment and our storage area was also a breeze. When we were finally able to buy a home again, we stowed the second- and third-row seats and made about twenty runs from the apartment and storage area to the new house.
To be fair, there were also many things I didn’t like about Carlo. First and foremost was the gas mileage. After so many years of small cars with small four-cylinder engines, 15 to 16 MPG in the city is a tough nut to swallow. Highway driving was a more acceptable 23 to 24, but most of my driving was contained to a seven-mile commute to and from downtown. Also, it felt weird driving such a large vehicle by myself.
Carlo was also an accident magnet. I’m happy to say that none of the problems were the result of my impatience. The first accident was because my wife backed into a poorly-parked RAV4 that she didn’t see until it was too late. The second was a little more bizarre. My wife was visiting her mother, and they decided to go somewhere in her mother’s car (also, coincidentally, a RAV4). Her mother backed quickly out of the garage, ignoring both the mirrors and optional back-up camera, and slammed right into Carlo. I even backed into a friend’s car once. Although he claimed the resulting dent was already there, I think he was just being nice. Even with all of the greenhouse space and the big side mirrors, I definitely appreciate the back-up cameras in newer vans.
Photo taken by my four-year-old son.
One of the biggest issues I had with Carlo was that legendary Chrysler quality, or lack thereof. The brakes burned me the most. This was more of a design issue than a quality problem, but the Grand Caravan ate front brakes. And, according to two dealers I spoke with, Chrysler made the rotors very thin “in order to save weight,” which meant they couldn’t be turned. Therefore, every 25,000 miles or so, I had to replace both the pads and rotors on the front, while the rears had to be replaced roughly every 50,000. I spent about $2,000 on brake work in the 42,000 miles I drove him.
Other issues were constant problems with the weatherstripping, tie-rod ends wearing prematurely, a Freon leak, a broken rear air-conditioning evaporator, leaky transmission pan, a bad water pump, and a slipping emergency brake cable. The last one made for a very nerve-wracking ferry ride with Carlo parked at a 45-degree angle.
Unfortunately, it was my own stupidity that did Carlo in. After a little more than three years of ownership, the airbag light came on. I had the issue checked by a mechanic, but he didn’t find anything wrong. Then the check engine light came on, then went off again, then back on. When the oil pressure light came on, I’m figuring there is definitely something wrong with the instrument panel wiring, since I never saw any oil on the floor of my garage. I know, stupid logic, but I didn’t know any better back then. I never checked the oil level because I thought that if there was an issue they’d tell me at one of the oil changes. One afternoon after leaving work, I floored it when the light turned green to try to make the still-green light up the street, heard a loud BANG, then a very disconcerting ticking noise. After arriving home, I checked the dipstick. Bone dry. I guess the oil light was real…
I immediately filled him with oil, hoping that would take care of the ticking. Not only did that not take care of the ticking, he was already a quart low after just a few miles. According to the mechanic, I blew out the bearings in the heads and was looking at about $3,000 for a rebuild. With two kids in daycare, we didn’t have that kind of money, nor did either of us like Carlo enough to invest that kind of money.
My daughter cleaning up Carlo about six months before the end.
We cleaned him as best we could, topped off the oil, and took him over to Carmax. I’d read that Carmax salespeople will generally tell you after a low-ball offer that you’re better off selling your car yourself. After our low-ball offer ($5,500 on a $6,700 loan balance), we were told that if we tried to sell Carlo ourselves, we’d most likely attract shade-tree mechanics with even lower offers. At least we had the $1,200 to pay off the loan. When I handed the money to the girl at the Carmax checkout window, I mentioned how silly I felt paying money to sell a car. She told me not to worry about it, since she’d seen people pay as much as $10,000 to unload a car. Zoinks!
I know there are people with long-running Chrysler minivan stories, but this obviously isn’t one of them. Yes, it’s my fault for ignoring the light and not checking the oil, but why was the engine burning that much oil at 65,000 miles in the first place, only 5,000 miles after the last change? I’ve now been burned by Chrysler – directly and indirectly – four times (Horizon, Omni, Cirrus & GC). Never again. These days, you’ll only find me behind the wheel of a Chrysler minivan that’s owned by Enterprise or National.
My first car was my father’s 1995 Caravan. It was still running fine when I gave it to my cousin but it was dying from cancer. It felt like a window was down when it was up. I am sad that there’s only the Grand Caravan left. I liked my short wheel base.
I can’t blame the author for swearing off Chrysler (now FCA) products. Many have. But several of the issues cited have been solved with the latest Pacifica. One of the minor accidents would have been avoided with the accident avoidance sensors found on most new vehicles of any manufacturer. And fuel mileage has drastically improved, most acutely with the Pacifica hybrid where it’s theoretically possible to drive locally on cheap electricity without using any gas, at all. Even the non-hybrid Pacifica does reasonably well on fuel mileage (particularly on the highway).
And the hybrid system does wonders for brake longevity via a hybrid’s regenerative braking system.
But all of that means little if the vehicle has constant mechanical gremlins, and FCA products appear to still have plenty of those.
Still, it’s just another testament to the practicality of the minivan through all these years and how there’s still enough of a market (despite the SUV/CUV boom) to justify continued production and updates. Indeed, there’s a good possibility that the upcoming, next generation Toyota Sienna will also have a regular (non-plug-in) hybrid version.
I am, however, looking forward to renting a new Voyager or Pacifica as soon as they stop making the Grand Caravan!
You’ll be pleasantly surprised with the Pacifica-Voyager. But, to be honest, a much better deal could be had with what will likely be the last generation (Daimler) Grand Caravan. It was upgraded in 2012 with bigger brakes and the much better, more efficient Pentastar 3.6L. It’s not a bad buy, particularly for a lightly used one.
Hell, you might even get lucky and find one of the rare Swivel ‘n Go models that had the swiveling, rear-facing second row seats and removable table. They weren’t too comfortable but would have been ideal for parents with small children who didn’t like the rear-facing child seats.
I hope you realized after all the mechanical ills why the depreciation on these is so steep.
Oh, is that why?
Yeah, that is why. If he’d bought the Corolla he mentioned early in the article, he’d probably still be driving it. I’m not a Scotty Kilmer fan but “endless moneypit” applies to these minivans.
A Corolla is a little tight for a growing family. Although it’s possible to get a lemon from any manufacturer, a used Sienna probably would have been a better (albeit more expensive) long-term choice.
The Grand Caravan was at the top of our budget. An equivalently-priced Odyssey or Sienna would have been four years old with about 60,000 miles.
You don’t condemn a father to a life of sterile domesticity by forcing him into a Corolla. Those cars are about as much fun as a colonoscopy. Maybe you hate to drive, but many of us do love to drive and will happily take a buggy vehicle over a dull dependable turd.
Wow, after 10,000 stories about great-running Chrysler minivans done in by their lousy transmissions, we were bound to get one about a lousy engine.
If it makes you feel better (though I know it won’t) the 3.3/3.8 has the rep of being one of the toughest, most durable engines out there. I don’t believe I ever once had to add oil to the 200k mile 3.3 in my 99 T&C. Most of these were done in by self-eating transmissions or by the hundred other things (air conditioning, electronics, rust) long before there was any trouble with the engine. But as we all know there are always both bad examples of good engines and good examples of bad engines. And FWIW, I wouldn’t have immediately checked the oil in that situation either (“Can’t possibly be oil pressure, these never use oil”)
On the gas mileage, you were right in the normal range. The 3.3/3.8 was never a fuel economy champion and was never going to get even close to your Sentra. However, I found it quite good after years with a Ford Club Wagon with a 5.8 and a 3.55 rear end.
I agree – it’s definitely a “frame of reference” situation where fuel economy is concerned. I’m sure people who were used to driving trucks or large V8 wagons raved about the mileage.
I think something happened during the 60,000 mile servicing at the dealer. I noticed the fuel economy had dropped about 10%. I had the dealer check it again, and they found nothing amiss. I don’t think they sabotaged anything, but I believe someone screwed something up.
Carlo is a fine name for a Chevrolet Monte Carlo, how did it end up on a Chrysler minivan?
It was that “Inferno Red” paint. Very Italian.
You have several frustrating instances with this Dodge.
The key issue is simply ridiculous. Similar happened when we bought our ’01 Taurus in ’02. There was a snag in the front passenger seat that had not been there prior, but not discovered until getting home. The dealership wasn’t very receptive as they had the check (sound familiar?). So I made the statement my next call would be to the bank to stop payment on the check and I’d have the car delivered back to them.
Their attitude changed. The seat was fixed.
I do give these vans credit – they were very comfortable to drive.
Technically, I could have ripped up all of the paperwork and walked out, but it was late and the cost was relatively minor compared to what we just spent.
I am sure that you “accidental” rental of a minivan which led to you epiphany about their many virtues is one of the reasons Chrysler put so many in rental fleets.
I have a relative who used to be in advertising. She cranked out tons of copy disparaging minivans and extolling SUVs. She said she would never have anything to do with one. However…with three kids she and her husband rented a Honda Odyssey on a trip. Now she is the most dedicated minivan mom there ever was. And, she says she sure is ashamed about all the ad copy she wrote!
I bought a 2008 Grand Caravan in July 2009 and it was one of the best cars I ever owned ! My biggest complaint has been rear brakes ; apparently that was a problem with 08’s . To FCA’s credit they always stood behind it when the brakes were an issue . In 2018 I bought a year old 2017 Grand Caravan which has been trouble free and waaay faster ( the Pentastar V6 is a big improvement , the 3.3 / four speed combo was durable but slow ! ) . Our son still has the 08 and with 174,000 miles the transmission and engine have never been apart ! I do feel sorry for it every time he shows it full of junk on the way to the scrap yard !
Didn’t know about the rear brakes, but the front rotors were definitely an issue on the 2008-2011 Grand Caravan (probably the same rotors as on the author’s earlier model). It was possible to remedy the problem by spec’ing the heavy-duty suspension to get the thicker rotors, but how many dealers had HD suspension (i.e., Cargo Van or CV) civilian minivans in inventory? Like I said, Chrysler fixed the problem in 2012 by making the heavy-duty rotors standard on all GCs.
As an aside, there used to be an old auto industry way of cutting costs by scrimping in two areas: seats and brakes. GC seats were mostly okay but it seems they cheaped-out on the brakes. And they’re not the only ones: Hondas, to this day, have been notorious for the same rotor issues.
Works good in the short-term but bad for the long-term when it pisses-off enough owners to switch to a different make at trade-in time.
I had a 2006, a 4 cylinder very base model bought new. I’m not disagreeing with your experience, but I got 10 years and 232000 miles out of it before it got t boned by a ford f150. I think in all that time I had the driver’s side sliding door lock mechanism go out, some blend door actuator go out, and an intake gasket. I vastly preferred the drive of this generation to the one that followed. Mine was a really great car and now I have a Pacifica. I still see a lot of this generation on the road so they probably weren’t all as bad as yours.
There’s just nothing as useful and versatile as a minivan. You can haul an incredible amount of things in it, plus people, and the load floor is low and flat. Everything is locked and covered. The newer ones achieve what used to be exoticar 0-60 times and handling numbers. You won’t forget you’re driving a 4400 lb large box, but they don’t feel like a rwd truck based SUV. Those things drive like a Jupiter jump.
This is the twin to the one we rented in Canada in the summer of 2007 for a week or so except it was dark blue. And renting it and using it for that week is exactly what it took to move us over to the “Yes, Minivan” column shortly after returning home, although we ended up with a Toyota and then a Honda. It’s just the right tool for the job, a shame that the quality was so woeful on yours (and many others’ according to their anecdotes.)
Minivans lead hard lives, often slightly overburdened mechanically, carrying heavy loads for vast distances, usually with a brood of uncaring (due to not being aware of things rather than ignorant) kids banging their stuff into them, dropping their food and bev onto them, often purchased as a need and rarely as a want, but being among the most versatile and helpful vehicles out there. All hail the unsung hero of family life, the minivan!
Amen, brother.
+100!
This vintage of Chrysler minivan is still fairly common in my area, though occasional 2nd-and-3rd-generation models pop up also. Funny thing about the dealer having only ONE key for your ’07 (final year for that generation by the way)–my ’05 Chevy Astro also came with just one when I bought it from B&L Auto Sales in December 2018. The quick solution: get a copy of it made at ACE Hardware; this may not be quite as easy with newer keys however as a lot of those come with the “fob” integrated into them.
On the subject of key fobs, my van didn’t have one when I bought it (the key from the dealer wasn’t the original factory unit), but I discovered in November last year that it DID have keyless entry by initiating the programming mode through the process of pressing/holding the lock/unlock buttons on the driver’s door while turning the key in the ignition switch. All this time I had keyless entry but no fob to operate it! Ordering a new one–you really only need ONE right?–from eBay solved this problem. Got it programmed and it worked just as the original one should have–it WAS in fact another factory key fob!
That oil consumption is indeed strange at just 65k miles. I’ve heard that after the 3rd-generation model overall quality took a nose-dive with the minivans. The same could pretty well be said for all other Chrysler vehicles after the Daimler-Benz merger in 1998. My dad dislikes all Chrysler products made afterwards to this very day.
Oh yeah–Chrysler is pulling the plug on the Grand Caravan in May. For anything cheaper than the Pacifica while still buying new the reborn Voyager has taken its place. We’ll see how all this works out in the coming decade.
The sad thing is that there were two keys. The dealer had just temporarily misplaced it between our test drive and the signing of the paperwork.
With nearly all auto-factories being shut-down over supply issues due to the virus, I would imagine the Grand Caravan is completely done at this point.
Here’s a possible explanation on the oil issue: how long after the last oil change did the problem arise? It’s possible (although unlikely) one of those guys drained the oil and didn’t put any back in. Seems ludicrous but I’m sure it’s happened.
I’ve heard those stories as well. However, it was about 5,000 miles after the last oil change and was just about to take him in for the next.
That key story. Just typical of the dealer experience. No matter how I try to check all my lists before signing papers, something like this seems to occur. Probably some nice lady in the office realized they had a key to a sold car laying around, and your salesman turned nemesis probably never knew she sent it to you.
Your story about renting a minivan on your Florida trip is similar to a story of mine. Shortly after we were married in 2005, my wife and I visited a friend of hers in Texas, and our rental car turned out to be a Chevy Venture minivan.
Similar to what you wrote, we considered it to be ridiculous, but over a few days we came to like it. We drove around with our friends in comfort, it was easy to get in and out of, and it was decent to drive. We were both somewhat sheepish to admit that we liked it. A few years later, with two kids by then, we bought an Odyssey, but that early experience with that rental was a big factor in nudging us over the edge into minivan ownership.
Sunday morning coffee and your COALs…it’s become my ritual. This time doing it at home instead of at Starbuck’s however!
“My endgame for this search was the total inverse of PonderosaMatt’s when he bought his Yaris for his family of three — I was going BIG!”
I sometimes wonder if my adoration of little cars has been irrational to the point of denying my family some basic creature comforts. But, then again, the Yaris was dirt-cheap to own and fun to drive, to boot. No easy formulas are available when evaluating family transportation.
At any rate, I’ve had quite a bit of experience with Chryco mini-vans as the Historical Society leased three different ones over the course of time I worked there. The first one, a ’91, was nice at first but within about two years was a groaning, creaky, rolling pile of dog poo, and that was even before the transmission went out. The second one, a ’96, was much better built and was actually pretty nice to drive…until the transmission in that one also took a dump. Both of those were Dodge Caravans. The last one, a 2000 Chrysler Voyager, was pretty much the same van as the ’96 Caravan. I don’t know what happened to that one as I left SOHS a year later. I assume the transmission eventually went out, as it also did on my wife’s cousin’s 2014 Grand Caravan. Clearly, transmissions were not a strong point of these vans. It’s really too bad because (with the possible exception of the ’91), these vans were nice to drive, fairly comfortable and great on utility. I once had the chance to drive a rental Olds Silhouette (post-dustbuster), and that thing was much inferior to its pentastar competition.
Thanks again for a detailed and entertaining “slice of life” read. Your honesty about the ups and downs of car ownership, good decisions and not-so-good decisions is very refreshing! I think we can all relate on some level.
Photo of your daughter is adorable. Our daughter had pretty much the exact same type of hat at that age.
Thanks Matt! I miss your Saturday COALs, not only because of your writing skills, but also those stunning Pacific Northwest backdrops. We just don’t have scenery like that here in the Atlantic Northeast.
In all honesty, the business case for a minivan, especially the plus-sized Grand Caravan, was pretty sketchy. We would have been better off with the Mazda5 I’d briefly considered. We decided to buy the Dodge because it was roughly the same price, if not a little cheaper, than the Mazda. I just couldn’t go with the smaller vehicle when I could get the bigger one for the same price. Did I just say that?!?
Thanks, Adam. I feel pretty lucky to live here in the NW. BTW, I do have at least a couple more COALs in me. They were cars of my dad and my grandfather…need to scare up some pictures and then I’ll write ’em. I so enjoy reading yours- I hope you have a few more, too.
“just couldn’t go with the smaller vehicle when I could get the bigger one for the same price.” Many people decide purchases that way and if not for cars, then certainly for other things. Some may see my dogged allegiance to Toyota and smaller cars as bordering on irrational. I guess I can only reply that I’ve never regretted buying them.
Very, very few people ever regret buying a Toyota. The “Did I just say that” comment was primarily for J P Cavanaugh since I just brow-beat him for saying the same thing in the comment section of Jim Klein’s Nissan Versa review. 🙂
To be fair, It had more to do with my specifically wanting a Grand Caravan over any “bigger is better” philosophy. Then, of course, paid a hefty price for that decision.
I regretted buying my Toyota. Never went back either. Experiencing less than 700 miles per quart of oil due to bad piston design cheesed me.
+1 on the little girl. She’s a cutey.
Nice COAL, thank you. Your oil pressure experience reinforces my belief most cars have an ergonomic flaw in their pressure warning system. Many, perhaps most people don’t know what to do when the oil pressure light comes on. It’s rare the light comes on but it’s very common drivers simply continue to drive the vehicle when it does, and destroy the engine. Even if they see the warning, they don’t know what to do
Car guys can do this, because they make flawed assumptions about the problem, let the engine run and destroy it. My friends and co workers did this with our Hino 258. They lost oil pressure kept driving it and seized the engine. I was shocked that they did this because they were otherwise astute car enthusiasts. I handled the engine repair bill which totaled about $12k (CDN)
It’s made even worse with many European and Japanese brands where the oil pressure warning light is a tiny incomprehensible symbol that looks just like the other incomprehensible symbols. I’ve driven a many Isuzu and Hino trucks with this quirk. Some mysterious warning lights have forced me to pull over and look up the meaning of the light in the owner’s manual.
Not all car guys do that. Just as in a plane before you take it out you check everything I check the three daily drivers every week after washing. Oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, coolant, and tire pressure. Anal, but then never a failure among the cars in my life.
If it hadn’t been for the Airbag and Check Engine lights, I would have gone right to the dealer when that light came on. I was just convinced that there was a loose wire in the IP causing warning lights to come on for no reason.
I’m not sure if this actually happened or if it was an urban legend. A friend once told me a story of two little old ladies driving some kind of Detroit lead sled on a hot day in Arizona. The HOT idiot light (it didn’t have a temp gauge) came on. They thought it was a commentary on the outside temperature and continued—until they couldn’t. I can imagine that some people are clueless enough for this story to be true.
They don’t call them ‘idiot’ lights for nothing. The way they generally work is when they light up, the damage is already done. This is particularly true of the oil light. Unlike a gauge which will show the actual pressure, a light just tells you that oil pressure has dropped to a certain level.
The irony is that, for a very long time, unlike Ford and GM, most non-performance Chrysler products still came with an actual set of gauges (fuel, ammeter, temperature) but still had a light instead of a gauge for oil pressure. After Iacocca took over at Chrysler, he went to the typical Ford and GM instrument cluster of speedometer, fuel gauge, and idiot lights.
This reminded me of many years ago starting my 99 Explorer on a cold winter morning in a hotel parking lot and the oil pressure gauge read zero. I immediately shut the thing down and thought about what to do. I checked the oil level and it was fine, I had no tools, my wife and two kids in the hotel waiting to go home, and it was a cold Wisconsin Sunday morning. I do all of my own maintenance and am pretty well tuned in to my cars. I tentatively restarted the car and it sounded the same as ever. Gave it a little gas and all was well. I took a chance and drove it home with no issues, the gauge reading zero all the way.
It turned out the “gauge” was really just hooked to an on off pressure switch. The switch had failed hence the reading of zero psi. This was a case of me not believing the instruments and I turned out to be correct. The smart play however would have been for me to have the thing towed. I can see how he would have thought the oil light was related to a failure in the instrument cluster.
Adam: another great post in your series. We had a 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan SE dark green with grey interior, fancy wheels, etc. We loved that minivan and took it all over (Cape Cod, coastal Maine, Rehoboth Beach) and the only issue we had was a small crack in one of the transmission lines which allowed some fluid to seep out. It was replaced under warranty. We had it about 3 years or so then traded it for. Pontiac Montana Thunder edition. While that one ok the Dodge was much better and we should have either kept it longer or gotten a new Caravan.
Thanks Johnny! Owning a Chrysler minivan is like playing poker with a pair of twos. You can fold and walk away, or you can keep raising the stakes and trying to bluff fate. You very well might get lucky and win, or more likely you’ll get your ass handed to you.
What I’m saying is that if you’d kept the Caravan, you may have bluffed fate and had an experience like SavageATL above. But you folded and walked away with your winnings, happy for the experience. I think you did the right thing.
Here’s my 2003 RHD (UK spec) 5-Speed 2.5 diesel Chrysler Voyager Limited. At 155,000 and irreplaceable.
Almost forget the best story. One thing that most parents don’t like to admit is that kids love minivans. When I was picking up my kids from daycare one day, a mother was loading her daughter into her Saab 9-3 Turbo. Once the little girl saw the power sliding door opening, she said to her mother excitedly, “Mommy, can we get a car like this?” It was priceless.
You are correct, my little guy missed out on our minivan years for the most part. As a result he is fascinated with them, loved the Pacifica I reviewed recently and when I take him to CarMax for a stroll on Sundays when they are closed (but there isn’t a fence and everything is unlocked) he makes a beeline for the vans and checks out every seat and opens and closes every sliding door.
Little kids get it. Adults, not so much. 🙂
Are you sure the “key” issue was not a scam? If you have two programmed keys for that car, you can buy a blank with a chip in it for $10-12 on EBay, have your local hardware store cut it for $3 or so, and use the car itself to encode the new key. But with only one programmed key, you need to pay the dealer or a properly equipped locksmith to erase the key memories, reprogram the existing key and program a new one to have two. I think the dealer ran the $100 scam…especially since they had the second key all.along.
On a lot of current cars you can’t self-program keys. Dealer-only. Ka-ching!
I never thought of that. I wouldn’t put anything past a car dealer.
My first minivan was 93 Ford Aerostar with 230k miles on second drive train I bought for 600$ back in 2005 in Ohio when working as student in amusement park.. That was a great car, always full of foreign students going to the mall or trips! 2007 another working stage in US, bough 92 Plymouth Grand Voyager for 1200$ in California, strong running vehicle. Put good 15k miles travelling all over west and sold it for 1400$ in San Francisco 2 days before flying back home to Europe. In following years, two big trips to refresh camping memories, renting 4th gen Chrysler minivan was the natural choice we enjoyed a lot. When I needed to upgrade wifes vehicle because of growing family (3kids total) I choosed 09 Toyota Sienna because it allows me to have 3 kids seats in the second row, all locked in by Isofix system. Thats feature which possible offer just Honda Odyssey and new 8 seat Pacifica now, all others have just 2 positions.
While Europe have Ford Smax / Galaxy or VW minivan (fairly good vehicles but none have built in DVD screen even today), I have USA market V6 minivans in my heart 🙂
Funny, I would love to have compact-car-based four-cylinder minivans over here. Of course, when we did have one (Mazda5), I didn’t buy it…
I prefer simple reliable gasoline engines and to pay a little more for the gas then deal with repairs of complicated diesel engines which makes a core of the engines for the minivans. And they are still one size smaller.
I believe the running costs of the similar type of vehicle with different type of engines cost the same in the end, but it’s more convenient for me to go more often to gas station rather then service station for repair. And added bonus, you always spot your car on the parking lot easily. In fact I never saw mine generation on the road in my country, while the 3rd generation I saw maybe 5 times. In fact I saw more Ferraris on the road then Toyota Sienna, talk about exclusivity 😀
My first van (AND the 1st vehicle under my ownership) was a white ’96 Aerostar with the extended rear overhang & the 4.0L Cologne V6; bought it with 75k miles in August 2012. It got me to college & back home, through vocational rehabilitation training, and through the first 2 years of my current job. Made it to 157k miles in March 2018 but by then had been wrecked too many times (mostly from previous owners; I hit 2 deer) and was about to eat the transmission. The final blow was the water pump failing just as it was being loaded to be hauled off to the junkyard. If it weren’t for parts scarcity from being out of production for so long I MIGHT still have it today. Still, it was a great van while it lasted, but I’m glad I now have an ’05 Astro with better parts support and a likely more durable powertrain. It’s gone 266k miles on original engine & transmission without a single wreck. 🙂
You said that when you had that sitch with the CV joint failing on the Nissan Sentra, you thought that maybe “the mechanic backed down when faced with a 58-year-old rather than a 18-year-old.”
Apparently being faced with an adult didn’t cause the salesman to back down in this case. If it were me, once I got the extra key in the mail, I would have been tempted to go back and demand that they buy back the 3rd key. If I’d put it on my plastic, I’d dispute the charge.
To rework a lawyer joke, it’s terribly unfair–the good car salesmen get tarred with the same brush as the other 99%.
Well, I’m not sure I’d put mechanics and car salesmen on the same “slickness” scale, but I’m not sure where you’re going with the comment. Are you saying my salesman was one of the good ones?
I didn’t necessarily say he was dishonest (that was actually G. Poon, above), but just noted how his demeanor changed after we’d signed the papers. If we’d paid asking price, he may have been more accommodating. But, as I noted above, we didn’t pay anywhere near asking price, which may also explain is post-signing attitude.
No, I’m saying he was one of the bad ones.
I don’t know if this was a full-on scam from the get-go; he may have innocently misplaced the 2nd key. But he denied that there had been a 2nd key and stuck you up for the replacement.
Yep, and Chryslers weren’t the only ones, though some of their examples were pretty egregious. Honda, too, and a fairly long list of other automakers. Mass—especially unsprung mass—exerts numerous penalties, and sturdier brake components cost more than chintzier ones.
I had to replace the rotors on my Accord *once*, and not more than that, because I did so in a manner that solved rotor warp/pedal pulsation for good. I knew the trick because years ago I read this Popular Science piece about cryogenic treatment of metal tools and parts. I originally intended to buy a set of good quality rotors and send them for cryo-treating, but found it easier, faster, more convenient, and cheaper to buy good quality rotors already cryo-treated, right off the shelf—that’s a thing now.
The 3.3/3.8 sprang largely from Bill Weertman’s pen (of Slant-6 fame), but yeah, I done my decades of time as a Mopar owner and I don’t foresee going back.
That’s really cool. Thanks Daniel!
Daniel just confirms what I posted above on the brake issue (including mentioning Honda). It’s a really sleazy trick on the manufacturer’s part to make a few extra bucks since the owner doesn’t find out about it until down the road and, by then, doesn’t have a lot of choice other than to cough up to get them fixed.
I suspect the way it works is the rotors are engineered to last with the ‘mininum’ weight of the vehicle. A good manufacturer will engineer them to work at the maximum weight, and for a much longer time.
Of course, driving style will play a part. If the driver doesn’t anticipate stopping, drives fast, and constantly slamming on the brakes at the last moment, well, that’s going to make short work of thin rotors. Heavily salted winter roads don’t help, either.
I think my wife and I are the luckiest people in the world when it comes to cars. We got a 2005 3.8L Town & Country Touring in late 2009 with 98,000 miles on the clock. It currently has over 250,000 miles with all of the major systems in tact: engine, transmission, a/c, axles (starting to click a little), wheel bearings, power steering pump. I’ve changed things like alternator (from a junk yard), water pump, pads rotors, shocks and struts, radiator, condenser/trans cooler. front window motor, power seat motor (just got another seat from a junk yard). I have another steering rack to put in it, I just haven’t felt like doing it. Despite their non-descript cloth covering, It has some of the most comfortable front seats I’ve ever sat in on a long trip. She still likes to drive it and we still trust it. Now, it may fail catastrophically tomorrow, but so far it has proven to be a cockroach of the road.