She’s a big girl….. we’ve taken to calling her “Tiny”. The wash towel on the hood is to cushion it against the garage door.
So I mentioned I might change the Suburban oil and filter myself. Out of boredom, really. I go back and forth on oil and filter changes. I don’t mind to do them, but if the weather is poor or I’m really busy at work, and the change comes due, I’ll roll through somewhere.
I’m always hesitant to do so, though, out of fear something will go wrong. My parents had an oil drain plug get stripped at a local garage they used for years, and the offender caulked it back in to keep it from leaking. The next time they went in for a change, the owner came out to tell them what he found……and they produced the receipt for the prior change! Whoops.
The owner took responsibility and it was a $1,000.00 repair. It was an old Passat (I don’t recall the year), and the engine had to come out to replace the pan, or some such nonsense.
I have a friend who left a large chain oil and tire place, and they apparently didn’t fill the oil at all! Newish Audi engine, ruined. Of course, he kept driving it with the red oil light on until he got home, so immediately pulling over might have been a better course of action.
Easy access to the filter and drain plug. Drain plug is at the back of the pan, so it will drain fully when up on ramps.
So with that background, I like doing it myself when I can. It’s a good time to glance over everything underneath for obvious leaks or damage, too.
After 5,150 miles since the last change
As far as how often to do it? With the BMW, it has a variable formula that calculates number of starts, trip length, etc. When you reset it, it appears to start with a baseline of 7,000 miles and indicates that remains to the next change. Driven almost exclusively around town under the right foot of a 17 year old male, it rapidly counts down and at about every 4,500 miles, says the change is due.
Chevrolet has used a number of different schedules and readouts over the years. My 2019 Suburban requires a change every 7,500 miles, and that is not variable. The dash readout just counts down 1% for every 75 miles, period, there is no calculation of any other parameter. The manual says you should not exceed 12 months either. So that makes sense, if you don’t cover 7,500 miles in 12 months, you’re probably putting around town and that’s worse for the oil.
Recent model years with a prior generation of the same 5.3 liter engine (a 2008 Suburban, for example) called for 10,000 mile oil and filter changes, and had a smaller capacity, 6 quarts versus 8.4 quarts for the 2019.
I rolled through the Valvoline near my office at 5,000 miles, 10,000 miles, and then 17,500 miles. No particular reason for the intervals, that’s just how it went. And now at 22,513 miles, it’s a sunny day and I need something to do on lockdown, so I’ll change it.
I like Valvoline, because you sit in the car and see everything they do. You can see them fill the engine, if that’s something you care about making sure happens. You can see which weight oil gun they are using to fill it. They also rotate tires, which not all the quick change places do, so that’s an added convenience.
I received a coupon via email from one of the big parts chains for Buy One, Get One on 5 quart jugs of oil, and a free “premium” filter too. Not a bad deal; their everyday price is higher than WalMart, but then BOGO makes them much cheaper, not to mention the filter. Since the BMW and Suburban take more than 5 quarts per change, you need at least two anyway unless you have enough “leftovers” lying around. I bought two jugs of 0w20 Mobil 1 for the Suburban, and 0w40 Mobil 1 for the BMW.
“Premium” filter is a very subjective term. Without turning this into a rant about oil or filters, I like Mobil 1, so I picked it. It’s the factory fill for Mercedes-Benz, Porsche and Corvette. I chose a Mann filter for the BMW, and a Wix for the Suburban. In choosing the Chevy filter, I noted that the Wix was larger than all the other options in stock for the Chevrolet 5.3 liter, including the OEM Delco filter.
I made some measurements while the old filter from Valvoline was on the car, before it got covered in old oil in the removal process.
You can see the Wix is 5 inches tall, and
the Valvoline about 3 inches tall. My visual estimation is that the Valvoline and OEM Delco filters are the same size.
Does that make a Wix a better filter? I don’t know for sure. I would assume it at least has more filter surface area, since the canister is 66% larger, but that’s not guaranteed either.
In any event, I made the choices I made, and the first time under the Suburban went fine. Up on the ramps, there was plenty of room to slide under on the cheap creeper I have. Not claustrophobic at all, with plenty of elbow room. The exhaust was in the way of the filter wrench, and it was hot from a grocery store run. But I made do and the Valvoline filter didn’t give much of a fight. It probably wasn’t as tight as it should have been.
Those are random leaves in the bottom corner of the bucket.
I was surprised at how black the oil was, with one-third of the interval left to go. I know it’s supposed to get dark as it does its job, but it was still darker than I expected it to be. This had been a pretty easy 5,000 miles too, covered in about six weeks since the last change. It did pull the boat to the lake twice, but it also had been on a 2,000 mile interstate trip to New England and back on this sump.
Is this engine hard on oil? It does use the motor oil to operate the variable valve timing and the displacement on demand. For these reasons, strict adherence to the 7,500 mile limit and the use of only full synthetic 0w20 is clearly stated in the owner’s manual. Why did Chevy reduce the interval from 10,000 to 7,500 miles? And increase the sump capacity by 35%?
Inquiring minds want to know. Maybe it’s simply because GM assumes everyone ignores intervals, and never checks their oil level either. If you want it to always have 6 quarts in it, it better have an 8.4 quart capacity because no one will ever check it between changes, that type of thing. If you’re GM and you want it absolutely changed at 10,000 miles, you better tell everyone 7,500 because they’ll put it off for a couple thousand past that.
This was a pretty easy job and cheap with the oil deal….about $38 for the two jugs and filter, and I have 1.5 quarts left over. Two jugs of Mobil 1 and a filter at WalMart would be about $60. The Valvoline facility has run about $120 a pop for full synthetic. Unless it’s winter, I’ll probably keep doing these myself and know it’s at least full when I’m done! And if I strip the plug, I won’t caulk it in place.
I recently ordered a three pack of Toyota filter cartridges and drain plug washers from a dealer that has an ebay site and am awaiting two jugs of Valvoline synthetic from Amazon so I can tackle the same job in the Highlander. Three weeks ago it was at 59k miles, so it was coming due. Now, three weeks later, it’s at maybe 59100 so not such a pressing need after all. After looking up the 60k miles service requirements it’s mostly the oil/filter and a bunch of visual checks, no real need to pay the dealer to do any of it, I have to imagine the upselling is going to be worse than usual with business being down.
I think I’ll wrangle the middle kid to “help” with it, might as well get him started on saving money rather than paying everyone under the sun to do easy stuff.
Yes, my Lexus dealer was great service-wise, except for the hard upselling. They insisted my engine was gummed up with carbon at 30,000 miles and needed a fuel system cleaning for $400. Give me a break.
Oh and I should mention if anyone has a BSA Scout (it can be a boy or a girl now), and they are past the Arrow of Light and working on Merit Badges…..there is an auto maintenance one and it’s pretty easy and fun. I took pictures of each of my boys changing the oil when they were working on their Eagle Award. There’s some other requirements related to explaining how various car systems function, explaining the maintenance requirements of your parents’ vehicle, etc.
For a couple seconds I was thinking, “I know the Eagle Premier and the Eagle Vision, but the Eagle Award?”
And then the penny dropped.
Funny, when I saw “BSA Scout” I thought of an English vehicle first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Scout also the BSA designed Daimler Dingo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Dingo
What do you do with the old oil? Is there a handy place to take it?
My city takes it, curbside, along with the garbage, if it’s placed into a clear jug and properly sealed. Most autoparts places will take it, some shops will. CA has a list of places it can be taken to for recycling. Most other states do to.
https://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/usedoil/recycle
All the auto parts places that sell oil here take it and you don’t have to buy the oil from them to take it back. For some reason they don’t want you to bring it in any container other than a dedicated oil container or jug, no recycled milk jugs or rubbermaid bins. Sometimes they ask me to take it into the back myself and dump it into their collection cylinder, sometimes they take it and do it and return the empty container to me. No charge.
As others have noted, most chains auto parts stores will take old oil. The only place I have taken old oil is Advance Auto, and they want it in a container with a lid, I guess to keep it from sloshing onto their floors. But any lidded container is fine, and they want you to carry it yourself to the back of the store and pour it in a big tank by the back door. There is also a container back there for old filters, rags, etc.
Local golf courses, stables, mechanics, etc. may also have oil waste containers and you could ask them if they mind taking your old oil. Most anywhere with motorized equipment they maintain probably has a large oil waste tank.
What a difference 45 years makes! Back then I would drain the oil and filter, take the drain pan to the woods in back of the house, after a couple shovels of dirt, dump it in there!
Oof…. in high school, 40 years ago my science teacher suggested this was a good way to dispose of old oil. I never did this, thankfully, since it permanently contaminates a large area of soil and affects groundwater.
Years later, I worked on some commercial construction rehab projects where small oil spills into the soil resulted in unsellable properties and very expensive decontamination costs.
Think back when gasoline contained lead. Some of that lead made its way into the oil because of blowby.
Something like one tablespoon of oil can render around 10,000 gallons of water undrinkable.
That said, back when I was young and didn’t know differently, I had experience in repurposing used oil into really good dust control on gravel roads.
In the late 70’s, one of the car magazines like Car Craft or Hot Rod published a tip on how to dispose of your old oil. You were supposed to dig a big hole, fill it with some gravel to about 6″ below grade. Then take a coffee can, cut the bottom out and place it on the gravel then fill in around with the dirt. Then place the lid on the can. When you need to dump some oil, just take the lid off the coffee can and pour away.
I had that magazine and in the 90’s my much younger brother found the old car magazines I had left at the family home. When he saw that article he wrote in a letter questioning such a practice and it did get published with a retraction admitting it wasn’t the smartest thing to have suggested and telling anyone out there that had one to stop using it.
Depending on where it was using used motor oil to oil down dirt roads was common into at least the late 80’s. I know the gas station I worked at in the late 80’s the used oil was picked up by an oiling truck.
In addition to recycling you can use waste oil to heat the garage. I don’t know how common they are now but a shop I worked at in the 80s had a specially designed waste oil furnace with a tank you emptied drain pans into.
Used oil is a carcinogen. Are these devices really safe to use?
Why would it be unsafe? Such furnaces can be purchased new and there is no need for a person to come in physical contact with any oil.
There are a number of used oil furnaces in various locations at work. Highly reliable with terrific heat. The only real consideration is having extra diligence in having a secondary containment around all the plumbing, but that’s no huge feat.
From Popular Science, January, 1963.
Yikes! We could probably fill a thread with bad automotive advice from decades past. The Gallery of Regrettable Car Care Advice.
Just posted above about a similar idea with a coffee can with the bottom cut out so that you could put a lid on the hole.
“Why did Chevy reduce the interval from 10,000 to 7,500 miles”
Chevy got burned bad on a whole string of their OHC motors (2.4L, 3.6L) with stretched timing chains and bad VVT solenoids, at least some of this (though not all IMO) can be attributed to extended oil changes and/or not using quality synthetic oil. People were coming out of cast iron OHV Chevys and buying new Traverses, etc with vastly more modern and less neglect-tolerant engines. I will say, I think there is a design issue with the 2.4 and 3.6, the chains are simply underspec’d and stretch anyways, eventually the cam phasers can’t make up for the slack and it throws a CEL.
In addition to trying to mitigate the issue with the shortened OCI, GM basically put in a software “fix” that extends the allowable range of seperation on those cam phasers before they trigger a CEL. Presto, cars are making it to about 100k and outside the factory warranty, and it’s no longer GM’s problem. Really pretty calculated and cynical, and one of the (many) reasons I generally don’t trust modern GMs as far as I can throw them, although their trucks (drivetrains anyways) are still generally okay. Lots of crappy Chinese parts surrounding it though.
Now with these OHV V8s the chain stretch is much less of a concern but I suspect the VVT solenoids still definitely benefit from good oil. Across the board, regardless of manufacturer, the trend my brother and his buddies see is VVT solenoid failure due to neglected oil changes. Subarus, VWs, GMs, etc.
My understanding is if you keep the oil changed, the 2.4/3/6 timing chains will not stretch. We change oil at NO MORE THAN 4,000 miles.
Entirely possible, but sounds like you need to be very aggressive and going beyond even the updated 7500 recommended interval to get good life out of them. Something that is obviously too much to ask of the average American car owner (whether Chevy or not), judging by the continued rate of stretch and failure. Last year my brother diagnosed a 110k mile Equinox with the 2.4 that needed its THIRD set of chains… I can’t help but blame the owner at that point, or else crappy repair work or crappy parts the first go-around.
“NO MORE THAN 4000 miles”
Thanks for saying this. I do the same, and a bit less if it’s winter time commuting. I’m surprised at how unbelievably cheap many people are about extending oil changes. They are convinced they’ve getting cheated if anyone specifies anything more frequently than an extended change. Imho they’ve never seen stinky, dirty oil or the damage done by extended changes.
Not to be persnickety, but at 10k, my synthetic oil often still looks great. But different cars and different engines mean YMMV.
Same here as Scottn59c. Both my 2014 Prius and 2015 Camry Hybrid specify 10K miles or 1 year with the same 0W-20 synthetic oil shown in the 4th photo. I follow the recommended change intervals, use OEM Toyota filters, and haven’t experienced any issues. Sometimes, the 12-month interval comes up before 10K miles (and that likely will be the case now with both cars and the lockdown).
I’ve been lucky being able to use a lift at work, which also has oil drain tanks and Safety-Kleen service to take away the waste oil, used cartridges, and rags. Now that I just retired though, I have to decide if I want to crawl on the floor again or take the cars to the independent shop I’ve been using for nearly 3 decades for service outside my comfort zone.
I recently changed the oil in the 11 Grand Cherokee (5.7 Hemi) that the kid drives…the filter that VIOC used looked like a thimble compared to the Wix I installed. Does it matter? Who knows.
Mazda announced free cleaning and oil changes through May 4th for ALL makes/models for healthcare workers, tempted to take my wife’s Camry in for the freebie, she’s actually been working in the COVID ward at the VA.
I bought a top oil extractor last year for oil changes on our Town&Country, with the top mount filter, oil changes are a BREEZE on it. I started to use the extractor for changes on the Camry too, cuts down on the mess, although of course with the cartridge filter underneath I’m still dealing with putting it on jackstands.
Biggest pain in the rear surprisingly enough is my old 4Runner. No need for jack stands, but filter access is through the driver side wheel well with the wheel cranked out. Hard to get good leverage with your arm basically extended straight out, and the filter is angled up so you dump a bunch of oil that collects in the skid plate and eventually leaks out. Considering how well engineered and easy most everything else is on the truck, the filter location is particularly disappointing. My old ES300 wasn’t much better: filter located on the front of the engine block, nested underneath the front exhaust manifold. Oil runs out and collects about 1/4 cup’s worth in a valley formed by a front motor mount, then slowly leaks out and drips on the exhaust. First time it happened I was convinced I had somehow created an oil pan gasket leak (was slowly oozing out between the mount and block mating surface). Total pain in the butt, and again, on a car that is otherwise very well thought out and well engineered.
I insist on doing all the changes myself, that way I know they’ve been done right. All it took was once at the Jiffy Lube for the boneheaded tech to not screw the filter on right.
I use synthetic oil and go 10,000 mile intervals, ignoring the silly countdown clocks in both my Honda and my wife’s. No problems in 140k miles. I only end up having to do these changes twice a year. Once in the early summer, when it’s nice to be outside doing work on a car, and once at the start of winter at the last of when it’s nice to be outside working on a car.
I changed the oil, plus the air and cabin filters on the Golf a few days ago. The top mounted oil filter and the bayonet-style drain plug (plastic, as is the oil pan!) that uses a flat blade screw driver make this the easiest oil change of all my COALs. Even the clips retaining the glovebox and cabin filter cover make that a quick job. But for some reason the air filter housing cover is secured by 8 or 10 T25 screws. Anyone else miss those center wing nuts holding the air cleaner lid on old American carburetors?
Ah, I bet that’s what happened to my parents’ Passat wagon….plastic pan and drain plug. I was wondering how that pan got ruined at a single oil change.
Depends on the age of the Passat. Our 2001 VW with 1.8T used a metal pan (cast aluminum, not stamped steel) and threaded plug.
My thoughts also. I changed the oil in our ’14 Passat recently and it’s all metal down there.
The worst part was removal of the plastic panel that covers the underside of the engine. Not bad, but it was the worst part.
Ahhh – plastic. Which answers my question of “why not just tap it out for a larger plug” in the way that used to be common where they sold oversized plugs.
I regularly change the oil and filter in my 2007 Golf (er, Rabbit) but didn’t even know it had a cabin filter until I took it into a VW dealership for an oil change that included an inspection, and they couldn’t believe how cruddy it looked (about what you’d expect given it hadn’t been changed in 90,000 miles). I’d never had a car with a cabin filter before it, and am still not sure when cabin filters became a thing, or for that matter if they’re universal now or not.
“or for that matter if they’re universal now or not.”
They are
Just been reading up on cabin air filters. One of the things that made Nash’s revolutionary “Weather Eye” HVAC system revolutionary was a cabin air filter – they were the first to use them, way back in 1940.
My ’96 4Runner doesn’t have one, neither did my ’98 MPV. My wife gets bad ragweed allergies and its very noticeable in the older cars.
These Suburbans from the factory come with the longer oil filter and the shorter one is exactly the same other than height. FVP 7502 or a Parts Plus PH500 is the name of the filter. I believe the AC Delco parts number is PF63E.
The old-school, spin-on canister oil filters are becoming more and more rare these days, with the cartridge filter taking its place. I guess it’s just a sign of the times with many more smaller engines wedged into smaller spaces, and fewer larger V8 engines in large engine bays.
That aside, it was an old-school trick that the manufacturers had two different lengths of the same diameter oil filters, simply to account for various clearances. So, if it was possible to get the longer filter in without a lot of difficulty, you got a few extra inches of filter media and extra oil protection by using it instead of the shorty.
But you had to be careful about stuff like exhaust pipe clearance. A longer oil filter might get you some added protection, but it might also shorten oil life if it extended the filter too close to a hot exhaust pipe. LIkewise, it might expose the filter to road debris if it hung down past the oil pan. You also had to remember to add that extra half-quart of oil, too.
My theory, just an assumption, is that the cartridge filters are cheaper and easier to recycle. And in the case did our VW, much easier to change compared to our last VW with its difficult to reach and extract spin-on. Interestingly, the new Golf has a large oil capacity for a small 4 cylinder gas engine (5.7 US quarts) so, perhaps more oil + longer change interval + paper-only filter has a better environmental footprint than the older paradigm.
Yes, you’re correct that the cartridges are easier and cheaper to recycle. With the spin-on filters, it’s hard to get all of the oil out, plus you’re wasting steel if tossed in the trash. You can be sure that the residual oil will eventually leak out in the landfill.
“The old-school, spin-on canister oil filters are becoming more and more rare these days, with the cartridge filter taking its place.”
Nothing is new under the sun. When I had my 59 Plymouth in the late 70s, I changed the oil for the first time on the old 318 and was surprised to discover a cartridge oil filter. Which required me to clean up and call around until I located a store that still stocked them. So I guess they’re back.
Yes, the spin-on filters were introduced in the 60s in domestic cars. If I recall correctly from back in the day, the first car we had with a spin-on filter was my mother’s 67 Chevy Bel Air with the 250 Six.
The spin-on type has the advantage of generally being simpler to change IF access is good and someone previously hasn’t overtightened it. The new cartridge types require special tools (at least on Toyotas), and are fussier in terms of having to carefully apply the sealing O-rings. But there’s no guesswork in how much to tighten the assembly on the engine.
Interesting that the oil life readout on the Suburban is a simple miles counter. On my 2018 Buick, I’ve already had the oil changed twice at 4,500 due to low oil life readings. We average about 2,200mi a year and most of that is city driving.
Edit: Imagine that pic says “71% Oil Life” rather than “0 mph.” 🙂
I gave up on the Quick-Lube places a long time ago, but my regular mechanic will do an oil and filter change for about $35-40. Which means that it is hard to buy the materials for less unless I catch them on sale somewhere. Never mind the crawling on the ground thing.
I am getting ready to change the oil on my new-last-summer riding mower. I was amazed to find that the job requires an oil filter, which Amazon thoughtfully delivered for me yesterday. No ramps or jackstands for this one, so my resistance to doing it myself is lower.
Some things I do myself, some I farm out.
For Molly’s (my Cairn Terrier) Mustang and my wife’s Lancer, it’s now about once a year, and I can’t even get either car to 3,000 miles anymore. 3,000 is old school, but I was stuck in this mindset for decades, and it wasn’t until my Civic that I got over this.
For those two cars, I always do it myself. Like Scott above, I trusted Jiffy Lube once with the Mustang, and since then, the drain plug binds a bit. The boneheads probably cross threaded it. At about 100K, I replaced the drain plug and that helped a little.
The Lancer is incredibly easy. The filter is right in the front.
The Mustang is not bad, but the filter is in a weird place that requires two hands, and you have to bring each arm in from opposite directions; the right arm up from the bottom, and the left arm around some structural members from the front. The engine needs to be in the Goldilocks Zone… Warmed up a bit, but not too hot. Warmed up makes the filter easier to remove. Too hot, and you are burning your left arm on the exhaust manifold on the starboard side of the engine.
How’s it working out for you there, Doug D? ;o)
I’ve done the Civic only once. While almost as easy as the Lancer, it has one major PIA… a plastic cover on the bottom of the engine presumably for aerodynamics and fuel economy. But this car uses fully synthetic 0W-20, and the interval is determined by an engine revolution counting oil monitor. Since this car is my DD and that’s mostly highway driving, it takes about 7,500 to 8,000 miles to get down to 15% where the little oil icon turns from gold to brown. I’ve taken it to the dealer for all but the one oil change that I did, and have them rotate the tires every time (for a fee of course).
Some things I do myself though. The dealership wants like an hour’s labor to change the air filters…. Um… No. I can do both in about 5 to 10 minutes!
I’ll be doing the air filters (cabin and engine) on the Civic this very day when I get home from work… The parts are already in the car!
My Mustang is still in winter storage. Once I pick it up I’ll have to change the oil, I must admit I’m not looking forward to it for the reasons Rick mentioned. Also mine has also been oil sprayed and everything you reach around is all greasy.
I already had supplies to do the Focus and Caravan, I’ll do the GC this weekend. And I need to check my records before changing the oil in the Kawi Concours, I ride so little and it’s such a messy job I only do the filter every other year.
When you see these massive barn find collections where guys have let dozens of cars sit I always think “Yup, they just got behind on all the oil changes..”
I have done all the oil changes (with probably a handful that I went to a quick lube place) myself on all of my cars. My Magnum SRT8 gets a new Mopar filter and 7qt of 0w40 Mobil 1 Synthetic every 3K miles.
My husband’s E350 Bluetec always went to the dealer while it was under warranty (with one exception). This was more for the paper trail of all the service done while the car was under warranty in the event we were going to sell it. Now that it isnt under warranty and looks like we will be hanging on to it for a good long while, we’ve started doing the oil changes at home.
Regarding the color of the oil, if you are concerned about it I would recommend getting an oil analysis done from Blackstone Labs. (https://www.blackstone-labs.com/). I’ve had oil analysis done on my Mustang, my Magnum, and also on the E350. It’s a very comprehensive read on what’s going on inside your engine.
I have a 2014 Regal Turbo (2.0 4-cyl). The oil changes have all been done by a dealer or a very reputable nearby garage.
Even when the oil is brand new (just changed), it looks dark and dirty.
I bought the car “Certified used”. When I took delivery, I noticed the dirty oil–with 98% left. I thought they just reset the the oil life. I didn’t tell them that though–I told them, I want clean oil. “It is clean, we changed it before the sale”. “It doesn’t look clean to me–change it, I’ll pay”
They changed it at no charge. And every oil change since, it looks dirty.
I’ve never had this with ANY other car I’ve owned or leased in over 30 years, including a 2003 Turbo Saab, and a supercharged Cobalt SS. When I was younger, I did DIY oil/filters on my first cars; otherwise I’ve always used reputable garages or dealers.
No JiffyLube type places. Invariably, fresh oil always looked clean. Till this Buick.
Is this a GM turbo 4 thing? As noted, GM’s supercharged 4 did not have this (the Saab used a Saab engine). Anyone have an explanation?
Any
This fresh dirty -oil look is common with diesel engines. Soot producing diesel combustion and very high compression means piston blow-by carbon contaminates the oil quickly.
In gasoline engines, I’ve only seen it with extremely neglected engines where there’s a lot of internal sludge build up, or the engine is worn or damaged and there’s lots of blow-by.
I believe the Chrysler2.7L holds the record for the engine most likely to sludge-up to the extent that oil cannot circulated thru oil passages and thus the engine seizes even tho the oil pan is full. The reason are several, but that engine is prone to catastrophic engine failure due to sludge/lack of lubrication.
My guess would be exhaust gasses, including water from combustion n condensation, are being blown into your engine block/oil pan. Sounds like a seal(s) to the turbo charger are defective and the previous owner either never had it fixed or neglected to change oil at a reasonable interval. It is “certified”, make them address the problem for long engine life. I would demand an oil sample be taken and analyzed for high amount of carbon/sludge contamination. Look at the CarFax, for previous oil changes or related issues. Check the air filter @ every O.C. Good luck!
On my old ’95 Protege with the 1.8L engine (found in similar vintage Miatas and Kias), the filter was a 1/4 quart size. the filter for the 2.5L V6 had the same diameter and threads but was 1/2 quart and twice as long. So obviously we used the larger filter. It was less expensive too, for some reason.
Honda consolidated around a single filter a while back, back when I briefly owned a ’03 Pilot I was dismayed when I saw the tiny filter Honda spec’d for the 3.5L, the same size filter I recognized from my parents’ 2007 Fit with a 1.5L 4 cyl. Conversely, for my old Ford Rangers with the 2.3L Lima, I used a big honkin’ Motorcraft FL-1A. Just felt GOOD spinning that huge thing on there. My brother sees those old Limas show up in medium duty/size construction equipment, they just keep chugging along.
I remember back when the popular oil filter on Mopar V8s was the Fram PH-43, which was shorter than the FL-1A/PH-8A which was kind of universal back then. I always wondered if the smaller size hampered filtering ability, but then the payoff was that you had lots of room to clear the torsion bar when installing or removing the filter.
Back in the day on many a Datsun and Toyota the trick was to use the “PH-8A” sized Ford/Mopar filter. Being the #1 selling filter made it much cheaper than the “correct” filter that was also smaller and sometimes don’t include the antidrain back valve. If there wasn’t enough clearance for that it was the “PH-43” for a shorter length or in later years the PH-3600 for a long length and smaller diameter.
In the intervening years I’ve even see a few mfgs that have finally dropped some of those now slow moving part numbers and now tell you to use the Ford/Mopar filter.
Yep, I sometimes used the shorter filter on my Land Cruiser to make it easier to extract without spilling. Glad to know I wasn’t the only one.
I do my own changes for all of the negative reasons previously listed, and because I enjoy doing them as well. I replaced all of my drain plugs with Fumoto valves: http://fumotousa.com/ for ease of drainage; since I apply my filters by hand, no wrench is required to remove them. 🙂
Depending on where you live, there are places that use used motor oil for heating. In fact the Car Wizard on YouTube just did a video where he mentioned the oil heater greatly cut into his $1000/month garage heating bill, and the heater is EPA approved.
A long-drain (overnite) on the ramps is my s.o.p. along with sticking the “wand” attached to the hose of my air compressor, down the dip-stick tub to pressurize the oil pan and force out the sludge in the very bottom of where there might be baffles. Put cardboard down b/c the oil will spray out the drain plug. A wipe down of parts that got sprayed might be necessary.
After the drain n flush, I go back with a WIX #57674 canister replacement from the topside, Mobil1 5w-30 and I’m done n done for another 5.5K miles.
Oh yes, the best part! Every oil change ends with a glass..or more of Cab Sav and a toast to the miles yet to be safely traveled.
My suggestion to “flush” is to burn a ~1/2 qt of oil by pouring it in while the drain plug is out and the engine is still hot. The cold oil will float out a surprising amount of old oil on many engines.
Sounds very reasonable…different densities related to temp. The “flushed” (.5qt) could retrieved before it mixes with the waste oil, then be used in the push (trim) lawn mower (16oz) or “makeup” oil for the old Gravely we use on the acres. Thnx!
I change out 10 cars. The five old cars (65-73) all can use Motorcraft FL-1A along with Chevron 10W-30. The 91 626, 98 Sable, 04 Le Sabre and 04 Focus also get various Motorcraft and Chevron 10W-30. As soon as the 04 Focus was off warranty I moved from 5W-20 to the 10W-30. The 2018, on warranty, gets a WIX filter, and Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 0W-20 as per the warranty. Older cars every 18 mos., middle group every 3-5000 miles, the 2018 every 7,500 miles.Luckily there is a country recycle place 5 miles from me where I can take many a chemical for the last 20 years.
These jobs are as easy as can be. The only hiccup was the first change on the 2018 Mazda 3 where the filter was on so damn tight I couldn’t remove it. When I saw that it was smaller then the three filter wrenches I had that meant an unexpected trip to the auto parts store for another wrench. I wasn’t a happy camper about that and it is why I let no one change my filters.
“The five old cars (65-73) all can use Motorcraft FL-1A ”
So you get to experience the joy of the precision-fit oil filter on the Polara? 🙂
You’re right it is a tight fit on the Polara but since I had a dozen in stock I used it once. I have since downsized to FL-300 for a little extra room. Unlike the easy access on Ford the position in the Mopar sucks. It is the only filter I can’t really visualize and either snake my arm up or down into the engine to find it by feel.
I always change my own oil.
I’ve been busy with other things but I do have the oil and filters and plan to do the Marauder and my Daughter’s car soon. I may go ahead and get the stuff and give the van and pickup their annual change in the next couple of weeks.
I did pickup a quick jack lift last summer when Costco had them in-store and on sale. So that makes it easy for the Panthers and other cars. Unfortunately it is the 5k unit so it won’t do the trucks, not that you need to lift them at all to change their oil.
I have changed the oil and filter in all my cars since 1961. Sti do it today and my neighbors (all old codgers) think I am nuts. Maybe i am……..LOL
Anthony…I think we are about the same age (76). We should be grateful that we still can our own change oil. Yes, I stated changing oil in my my P15 Plymouths around summer 1960. However, I don’t miss servicing the antiquated oil-bath air cleaners, that were by the time I got the car, were clogged with dried out dirt- contaminated oil the consistency of tahini or peanut butter.
My F-100 still uses the oil bath air filter.
Looks like it is very well maintained! The ones I had on the two1948 Plymouths I owned were filthy so I went back with paper element in a chrome housing. Now they are collectible if in good shape, original paint n factory decals .
Ah yes oil change season my car is coming up due if the parts shops open one day I’ll do it oil oil and air filters the oil comes out a nice dark clack from my Citroen its got 325,000 kms on it around 200,000 mules and its diesel so black oil is natural unfortunately air filters are mostly OEM supplied off the shelf they can be got aftermarket pirate edition but are double the price and you wait for them, I’ll see what the internet has to offer 5w30 oil shouldnt present a problem,
I t occurs to me while writing this I cannot remember when I last did an oil and filter change on my Hillman that suggests its also due, then theres the daughters car out of sight 250kms away this project is snowballing who put up this post, very rude LOL.
The thing that struck me first was the hood being too tall to open in the garage. At this rate the oversized RV garage will have to become a standard feature of new houses to accommodate ever taller trucks and SUVs.
I generally use the drive through oil change places, Oil Can Henry’s is not much more expensive than DIY and has good processes to make sure everything is tightened and filled. I still do my own oil changes for my motorcycle, and my son’s car gets the home oil change too. 5 quart jugs are easy to come by and curbside recycling or the landfill take waste oil.
To be fair the truck is on jackstands
that helps, although modern trucks are so jacked up these days I feel like you can get a creeper under them without a jack or ramps
Think we need to go back to the early-mid sixties pickup designs where the hood wrapped over the top of the fenders. 🙂
I also do my own oil changes. I ran a fleet of 450+ vehicles and equipment for a state DOT, lots of different stuff, probably 70% light duty. Most of the light duty vehicles were serviced at dealers or oi; change service locations. Lots of trouble of the years, wrong oil, cheaper than cheap oil filters, wrong air filters installed, air filter housings not reassembled correctly. Ended up labelling all air filter housing, DO NOT SERVICE. Had one unit that they didn’t drain the oil or they put in the new oil twice as it was way over full and the piston rings were wrecked, blowby so bad that it would push the dipstick partially out off the tube. A real expensive one was a nearly near diesel F350. The engine was COMPLETELY filled with oil !!!!!! The driver told me on start up there was some weird sounds followed by oil dripping out everywhere,
I had a local shop that would stop by about once a year selling oil change coupons. They serviced my neighbors vehicles. He was rather perplexed I wouldn’t take his offer and said he would drop his price, I still refused, sorry, you’ll have to pry my tools from my cold frozen hands when I’m dead before you can service my car. Started wrenching in my early teens, I’m 66 now and I’m not giving up yet, In fact UPS just delivered my oil from Walmart today.
Same as me. Now I never serviced a state fleet only a family fleet. Started wrenching at 14 when the 68 Cougar was bought, still am, still will, and also 66.
A new vehicle is the second largest investment the ordinary person makes, their house being the largest investment.
Despite the enormous amount of money, folks either do “voodoo” oil changes at some ridiculously-low mileage to ward off evil spirits; or they allow someone else to dictate to them how often it needs to be changed (despite the “someone else” having self-serving reasons for their advice).
The only proper way to do this is to send off samples of oil for analysis. This gets you to an appropriate oil change interval, AND as a bonus, gives you an insight to the overall health of your engine (or trans, rear axle, transfer case, or power steering, depending on which lubricant you’re having analyzed)
My Trailblazer has a “real” oil-life monitor. It uses an algorithm that takes into account throttle position, engine temperature, RPM, and who knows what other factors. Generally, it says I’m due for oil changes at around 13,000 miles.
So I bought a case of oil-sample kits from Detroit Diesel, then sent off oil samples at 13K oil changes. The oil was consistently “still fit for use”, with low levels of contamination. I started changing only the oil filter at 13K, topping off the oil, and then waiting until 26K to change it. The oil samples are still showing the oil is fit for further use. I’m considering extending my change intervals again.
The thing only has 240K and seventeen years on it, though, so who knows how it’s going to be long-term.
I’m so old that I remember GM using “canister” (bare filter element in a re-usable housing) oil filters under the engines on mid-1960s vehicles. I was so glad when they quit that crap, and switched to spin-on filters. Fifty years later, those same stupid canister “bare filter element” filters are back, and folks think they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread. You know why they’re back? Because they’re easier for the shop to dispose of. Spin-on filters have to be crushed to squeeze the EVIL oil out of them before they can be discarded. Then the metal can is “safe” to be put in the scrap-metal bin for “recycling” (i.e., tossed into a land-fill.) Eventually, the Green Nazis decided the crush procedure wasn’t getting every last oil molecule out of the spin-on filter and that was going to wreck the entire environment. The fact that the canister-style filters cost less to make means that the folks selling the filters make more profit, which also “lubricates” this system.
At least the new-style canister filters are up-top and easy to service. That much they got right. You notice that oil change prices don’t drop just because the filter, and the labor costs have gone down.
Your comment is an important one, on analysis and the fact that in modern engines, oil intervals can be drastically longer than in the distant past. First of all, oil itself doesn’t ever “wear out”, or lose its lubricating qualities. And modern engines are profoundly cleaner than ones back in the day, which constantly had blow-by and were contaminated by raw gas on every start up.
I understand those (like 17 Chariots below) whose experience was defined by vintage engines of yore, which really did need fairly frequent oil changes. But it’s simply not applicable to modern engines, and I do believe that folks change their oil much more often than is actually appropriate or certainly necessary.
There may be certain engines that have intrinsic weaknesses which might possibly be affected by very infrequent oil changes, but for the most part, it’s a waste of time, effort, resources and money to change oil more often than is actually necessary.
I know routinely go 10-12k or longer, even when there’s no oil life readout.
The other question I always ask: how many modern cars will die because of an engine failure due to lack of oil changes before other things make it uneconomical to keep on the road due to other failures not worth fixing?
Your last paragraph resonates with me, because I have a 1998 Nissan Frontier with just under 100K miles. I brought it home when it had 90 miles.
It accumulates only about 2000-3000 miles annually now, so I no longer change it at 6-month intervals, but let it go 12 months or somewhat longer. This is with conventional 5W-30 oil. I know the 4-cylinder 2.4-liter engine will still be running when some other terminal failure occurs, maybe in another decade or two!
“how many modern cars will die because of an engine failure due to lack of oil changes ”
A lot more than you think Paul. See my notes above. Newer engines with turbochargers (and high cylinder pressures), modern single row low friction low mass cam chains, and VVT solenoids. The initial run of low tension oil rings across the industry (’08-’09ish) and some historic oil burners (Subaru), coupled with longer recommended intervals were the death of many a modern engine. VVT solenoids gum up, cam chain tensioners fail and chains stretch from low/dirty oil. A lot of modern turbo motors (and high compression naturally asprated motors) are pushing a lot of combustion gases past the rings, aggressive PVC systems are pushing out and burning up a lot of oil. Lastly, manufacturers keep moving to ever-thinner synthetics (0W-20, and now 0W-16), adding to that burning effect when coupled to low tension rings and high combustion pressures.
Now I don’t mean to make it sound all doom and gloom and that all modern engines are worse than old ones, by no means. But that there is plenty of reason to be wearing of 10k-12k intervals. My wife’s impeccably maintained 2012 Camry for example, can be a quart low by 7500 miles. For most consumers, checking oil is not something they do. They’ll just take it for regular oil changes. A more aggressive interval can help people like this avoid a dangerous situation.
All good points. My 98 Frontier doesn’t have any of those new features except of course for fuel injection. I made it a habit to check under the hood of all my cars once a week (and more often during long trips).
Some of my cars used oil between changes; some didn’t. Currently in my fleet of 3 vehicles, only the Camry Hybrid uses some oil, so I do have to top it off occasionally.
My understanding is that oil does wear out… the long polymer chain molecules get mechanically chopped up as the oil is used, which makes the oil thinner and less effective. The various anti wear additives get consumed as the oil is used, again making the oil less effective.
I agree modern engines seal much better than older designs but apparently many with variable valve timing mechanisms are more sensitive to dirty oil than older engines and shouldn’t be neglected.
Generally the best advice for most owners is to follow the manufacturer’s recommendation for oil changes. The engineers arrive at them as a best fit for average use. I’m surprised how contentious this concept is…. not necessarily in this thread, but in general. …. some people are overly cautious but others believe such recommendations are a conspiracy to steal their money and will resist. The logic of resisting caring for your own property escapes me.
Yup some of the additives that combat acids get used up. Many of the other additives do break down causing a change in the viscosity.
I wonder why our car oil indicator is so extreme. (See my earlier comment above, I’ve changed the oil twice in 4500 miles.) I’m thinking either GM POS (I love the car, but it is a GM) or our pretty unusual duty cycle (it gets driven once or twice a week on trips of 3-5 miles in city traffic, or sometimes on the highway for about 5-10 miles in relatively heavy traffic. Only 10 times a year or so is it opened up to longer freeway trips at speeds above 55.)
In any case, the oil change is free other than my time spent in a suburban dealership waiting room… but it’s still curious. My mother has owned Buicks with oil life indicators and they would go over 10k without indicating an oil change.
Yeah that is extreme abuse that will promote condensation and lead to a high moisture content in the oil, depending on the climate.
Of course it does vary depending on the vehicle, load ect but a good rule of thumb is that it takes about twice as long for the engine oil to reach normal operating temp compared to the coolant temp. Longer if there is a lot of idling and generally slow driving.
To drive the moisture out the oil needs to get up to temp and then continue to run. Back in the day it wasn’t too uncommon to find the inside of valve covers rusty on cars with similar use patterns. This of course is in the PNW climate, doubt it would be a problem in the desert.
Most people are unaware that if engine oil doesn’t get up to operating temperature condensation will build up in the engine and cause rust inside. I see a lot of ads for older and classic cars where the seller proudly states that the car was started once a month and only driven around the parking lot. They mistakenly think this is good for the car.
“Idling and generally slow driving” basically describes this neighborhood. Perhaps I should get out more just to exercise the vehicle. Well, not right now particularly, but hopefully soon.
That short run around the block isn’t good for the exhaust system either as it just tends to fill it with water on a cat equipped car.
So yeah it sounds like a nice ~hour long Sunday drive wouldn’t be bad for the car.
A friend of mine bought a beater ‘71 Nova with the 250 six around 1979. He drove it for three years and maybe 40,000 miles and NEVER (I mean NEVER) changed the oil. Just added the occasional quart here and there. Ran with no problems for the three years he had it. I know this is just an anecdotal experience, and I keep to the manufacturer’s recommendations regarding my own vehicles, but since this time I’ve always wondered how accurate manufacturer’s interval recommendations were.
They were intrinsically very conservative for the worst case scenarios.
Well, I must be one of those voodoo wielding Green Nazis. 😉
As a former auto technician and car collector, I do all my own oil changes. I’ve worked on plenty of engines and can tell when someone gets the brilliant idea to neglect proper oil changes. The engines are still running but have ample black gooey or baked on scale sludge deposits inside. The worst was a Continental 164 engine, with a crankcase so full of sludge the crank throws had cut grooves in the deposits. It still ran fine but had terrible cylinder and valve train wear, even though the rest of the driveline was like new.
Other failures from a lack of proper oil changes are scored bearings from old oil’s poor lubrication properties and pitted lifters and rockers, from the build up of acids and contaminants in old oil Again, often the engines still run in some manner but are damaged from neglect.
Well – maintained engines are clean and efficient. I imagine engineers intend engines to be clean inside and, given how cheap oil is to buy, regular oil changes are reasonable. I’ve never understood why some people are so fixated in being so cheap they risk their car. They keep their house clean, they presumably shower and clean themselves regularly, so why not spend $30 every 5000 miles to maintain a clean and efficient engine?
Finally, I like the return to canister filters. They take a bit longer to service but I like having a look at the old element for unusual or excessive deposits .
Xlnt point…old canister filters, such as the one from my Aveo n Sonic, are important clues to engine condition. I have been known to reverse-engineer a canister element and use a 10x hand lens to look at the paper baffles.
Everything you’re using as an example would be discovered with an oil analysis.
Sludge? They test for that.
Viscosity breakdown? They test for that.
Acid buildup? Tested.
Grit? Tested.
Moisture? Tested (For the record, twice I’ve had oil-sample results showing excess moisture. Both times (’92 Lumina 3.4, and the Trailblazer) it was because the thermostat stuck open so the engine ran too cool.) I took a sample each time when I changed oil after changing thermostats. I suspected contamination each time.
And as said, “old” engines with draft tubes and 1950s oil are a far cry from feedback-fuel injection, overdrive transmissions, and modern oil formulations.
If the oil analysis says the oil is still good at 13K, changing at 5K is voodoo and unreasonable.
Schurkey, Do you use a retail “kit” or home chemicals to test oil for the (5) criteria listed in your 4/17 post? I am interested in doing the same.
This is NOT a D-I-Y chemistry-set oil test.
For perhaps thirty years, I’ve been buying oil-sample bottles from Diesel engine manufacturers–I think my first ones were Cummins, and I would buy two or three at a time. Later, I bought them by the 12-pack case from Detroit Diesel. I’m down to three or four, so I’ll be buying another 12-pack, probably from DD so that the same lab continues to analyze the oil; they keep track of my vehicles. That way, each successive analysis is added to the history of that vehicle that they’ve already got.
The oil sample is poured from the cleaned engine oil pan into the “inner” sample bottle, and the lid firmly screwed on. The inner bottle, and the vehicle ID and oil brand and weight is written on their pre-printed form, and all that is put into the “mailing” bottle, and that lid is screwed-on. The sample gets mailed to whichever lab is closest to you; and the actual testing with a mailed printout is included in the price of the sample bottle kit. The only additional cost is the actual postage.
You can buy oil-sample kits from Amazon; the prices vary from “not horrible” to “Frikkin’ insane”. The most-expensive test kits are marketed to aircraft owners–they have lots of money and engine overhauls are frightfully expensive. I have no reason to believe that the aircraft oil sample kits include more-extensive testing than the kits I’m buying from DD.
I don’t want to give the impression that I analyze every oil change. I analyze every “used” vehicle I buy, for the first few changes–to get an idea of engine condition and oil-change frequency. After that, I only do it occasionally, or if there’s some reason to expect a problem–like when my thermostat sticks open.
Here’s an ancient report from my Trailblazer. You can see what stuff is verified. I’m hoping that you can click on the picture and see the full-size report.
I usually changed the oil myself on my earlier cars, in part to save money and in part cause I knew it would be done right and with my choice of oil and filter. (Why do so many oil-change places overfill it? I had to drain a quart of oil out a few times. And why so much trouble with drain plugs?).Where I live, service stations are required to accept and recycle small quantities of used oil, so you just leave your old oil in a jug by the service bay door. I’ve never changed the oil in my current VW though, partly cause i’m getting old and lazy, but also because it requires synthetic oil and the price difference between doing it myself and having it done for me isn’t enough to warrant the nuisance of changing the oil myself. I’ve done only the most minor of servicing on this car.
My experience is that many oil change places under fill putting it in the middle of the full and add line. Save a 1/2 a qt per change and that can make a real impact on your costs at the end of the month.
My cars also require synthetic oil and that is precisely why I do my own oil changes. The mark up on a synthetic oil change is much greater than on a conventional oil change. I only buy oil when it’s on sale. It averages between $30-$33 a jug Canadian. The long life oil filters go on sale for $16-$18 Canadian. The oil change places start at $69.99 to $99.00 at the dealerships.
Bought a ’58 Ford w/ 223 6 cyl. in 2014; changed the oil when I first got it. Decided I should change oil now in 2020, even though it’s only been driven about 3000 mi. since ’14. Oil still looked good & felt slick before I changed it. Car doesn’t burn or leak oil, so I never added any.
–Purchased ProLine oil; 2 straight 30s & 2 10W30s. Service SN.
–Before changing, added 1 cup Marvel Mystery Oil to crankcase. Drove car around to warm it up and let the Mystery Oil do a mild cleanse.
–Used a WIX spin-on filter.
–After changing, topped off with bottle of STP Oil Treatment. Ran the engine to mix in the STP.
So I figure I’m good for the next 6 years. Was this good procedure?
The Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) and the STP were probably a waste of time, money, effort, and enthusiasm. I have approximately the same opinion of Seafoam.
4 qts + STP in a Ford six-popper? I’d have expected more.
My daughter took her 10 year old Fiesta to a Midas shop last year. They stripped the oil plug and crammed it in with JB Weld. Extractors and a torch wouldn’t budge that plug. I was able to find a new pan for $60.
I have NEVER let a shop do a change for ANY of my cars EVER! You can trust a shop based on their rep for other work, but you can’t always trust the shop jockey doing the change.
BTW, Bob The Oil Guy is a great resource-
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
I remember reading in a magazine about forty years back (gosh!) about a bloke who decided to save money and change his own oil. Cue Jeremy Clarkson: “How hard can it be?”
IIRC the victim was a Datsun 180B or 610. All went well when our friend drained the oil. Then he turned on the engine and gave it a bit of a rev to get all the old oil out…..
Some quite fascinating discussions arising out of a seemingly-dull topic. Well, dull to me, that is, as I can’t stand doing oil changes. I’d rather attempt to pull the whole bloody engine out than do that! Always found it messy, awkward, fail-prone (I’d be the one to strip a thread or whatever) and then the disposal issue. In fact, it’s been so long since I could bring myself to do it I had not a clue about all this modern disposal stuff until this.
My question to the knowledgeable is this: how does modern oil work in old carb cars with fuel being dumped in, etc? That is, does it still need 1960’s changing intervals because the entire operation of the engine is so much less controlled than the modern engines it’s made for?
While only able to speak for myself, although I cannot help but think there are similarities with others, I simply don’t drive the old Ford enough to worry about changing intervals – or at least an interval based upon mileage.
As for oil dilution, it’s going to be a function of engine condition. The engine in mine only has about 5,000 miles since a thorough overhaul, so it’s still tight. Had it not been overhauled, it would be a different story.
That said, I’ve been changing annually just for good measure.
Modern oil is pretty much better in every respect over the oil of the past. They are generally more robust and longer lasting than anything made in the past. That said, many older engines use flat tappet camshafts, which tend to prefer a healthy does of ZDDP additives. Modern SN and SN+ oils have significantly less ZDDP than in the past. So if you have an old engine with a flat tappet cam, using an engine oil that has a good amount of ZDDP would be recommended to minimize cam wear. These included HD fleet type oils (ie Shell Rotella), oil formulations specific to vintage cars, or using a ZDDP additive.
The problem with older carbureted engines is the crude choke systems tend to dump excess fuel in the engine, washing out the cylinders (increasing wear) and diluting the oil. On top of that, many old cars tend to run rich, even when the choke is off. Since many old car owns drive their cars on short trips and don’t often get there cars fully warmed up, I typically recommend an annual oil change regardless of miles driven. The oil should be changed before the car goes into storage, so it has fresh oil sitting in the engine. I try to ensure my old cars are driven enough each time that the oils gets up to temperature. I also do annual oil changes. Oil is cheap, so I err on the side of caution.
“…if you don’t cover 7,500 miles in 12 months, you’re probably putting around town and that’s worse for the oil.”
Or maybe the vehicle isn’t driven 5-7 days of the week, as is the case with my ’05 Astro in addition to my dad’s ’04 Expedition & ’08 GT500. All 3 are saved for special occasions or when they actually NEED to be used. This way they can go for longer periods of time without worrying about maintenance, as long as the engine is given enough time to warm up and run for as many highway miles as possible when they ARE driven. At least ONCE every week is preferable so the battery stays charged.
We both drive 4-cylinder Rangers–an ’08 & a 2011–for daily use & do our oil changes together at home every 3-to-4000 miles. The engine is good for up to 5000 IF you never haul any heavy loads with it in that interval. ONLY when the weather gets really bad do we have Cromley’s do this stuff. Herlong takes care of all the Astro’s oil changes b/c 1) my dad is more of a Ford guy & wants nothing to do with GM or Chrysler and 2) I still have the Ranger to drive when the Astro is in the shop for other maintenance/repairs. The maintenance cost isn’t as high as you would think when it’s driven mostly on weekends & holidays. Neither dealership has had any foul-ups with oil filters or drain plugs.
My CT6’s 3.6 V6 oil monitor does vary with driving conditions. At the beginning of the year I had an oil change (dealer) and then went on a trip, which resulted in 16% of the oil life used in just over 1300 miles (about 82.5 miles per %). Since then I have been just driving locally (which means 10+ miles for each start up) and I am getting about 72 miles per %. So at least this car is computing something to determine the oil life.
I am late to the party on this one. Discussing oil with car enthusiasts is like discussing politics. Everyone has an opinion, they usually feel strongly about it, and heated debate often occurs. I used to be really into the study of oil (tribology) and it is a very deep rabbit hole. Suffice to say, you can waste countless hours on the topic. However, I pretty much sum things up as follows. For modern cars, follow the manufacturers recommendations. They aren’t prefect, and yes, often times you can stretch much longer than what they recommend, but they are pretty much good enough to ensure you never have an oil related failure. Furthermore, following the manufacturers guidelines ensures that you have no issues should you have a problem during the warranty period.
While some get into oil analysis and extended oil change intervals, it takes a lot of dedication and some knowledge to do correctly. And at the end of the day what do you really achieve? Save a few bucks in oil changes? Not worth my time or hassle, it’s just easier to dump the oil as per the owners manual. That’s what I do on my modern cars.
Modern engines can run a long time on modern oils, but operating conditions are the biggest variables. As already discussed, short trips are by far the worst thing you can do. Oil does break down with time, where the additive package becomes depleted, the oil thins out (shear) and can become acidic as the TBN (total base number) breaks down. So the recommendations are often on the conservative side to account for this, but it’s cheap insurance for the owner and the manufacturer.
When it comes to vintage cars, I change the oil on an annual basis. Old cars often see the worst type of operating conditions, with short trips, lots of sitting, and rich running carburetors. Again it’s cheap insurance. It’s always best to change the oil on a vintage car before storage, so that fresh oil is in the sump. I also think older cars tended to have oil change intervals that were too long, which is why people started doing their shorter “voodoo” oil changes back when they were new. My dad was one of them. He did 2000 mile oil changes in from the 60’s forward on his cars (increased to 3000 miles later). It was probably a good idea, as the early mutli-viscosity oils were notorious for breaking down. And his engines were always clean as a whistle inside. So I guess the so called voodoo worked. He now does 10,000 mile changes on his Camry.
Tribolgy! Well, that’s a new one on me.
And by a meaningless but amusing coincidence, it sounds exactly like it should be the study of irrational embedded political convictions.
It’s worth adding that manufacturers never say “or so” or “thereabouts” or somesuch. They say 10,000mi because they don’t know your circumstances, and, based on their engineering models, they say we just will not warranty things beyond that. Sure, you personally (Mr Curmudgeon) may be fine, but that’s our MAXIMUM, the latter point something often overlooked in this debate.
Folk proceed to blame it all on the workshop-maintenance-seeking dealers at times, but that’s fantasy. Dealers OWN the cars, not the manufacturers, and the maker gives no shit after they’re gone from them. If the dealer wants to forward a warranty claim – and remember, that’s what they do, they don’t decide themselves – and more than 10k (or 12 months) has passed, sorry. That, the manufacturer would say, is why we set limits.
My old man, who kept many a marginal old car running through strict preventative maintenance, has never got lower than 5,000k (3k miles) on his old Camry. And even though his habits date from driving things learnt when first he was licensed 67 years ago(!), he’s probably about right. His miles these days are very low, and usually cold.
Very late to the conversation, as usual, but had to share my $0.02
I’ve changed my own oil since I started driving, 35+ years ago – change the oil and adjust the valves on the old Squareback. It’s definitely gotten simpler and less frequent since then!
One thing I always do that I haven’t seen mentioned is to pre-fill the new filter. It might not make any difference, but I figure the less time running “dry” the better. I fill it on the bench with new oil, then let it sit and soak into the pleats, then repeat until it won’t hold any more(obsessive much? yeah, maybe a little). Obviously I prefer a vertical oil filter! With the sideways ones, I can still get it about half full, then rotating it while I bring it up to the filter mount to keep the new oil from spilling out(see what I mean about obsessive?) My worst oil change car is a 2002 Saturn SL2, the filter is sideways and WAY back in there. Happily, that is now my son’s car, so he can experience that particular bit of joy.
As far as used oil, I have an old 5 gallon oil bucket with a proper lid & pour spout that I take to the local auto parts store. I punched a small vent hole in the top, make for much easier & cleaner emptying. I remember as a kid that my Grandpa had a used oil dump well in the back yard, and Dad would save it for soaking fence posts to delay them rotting in the ground; if the fence post barrel was full enough, it also made good weed killer for the driveway.
Interesting post & thread – fun reading what others do, and I even learned a thing or two!