Paul Niedermeyer and I have occasionally described ourselves as yin and yang when it comes to Curbside Classics. So, when Paul the Yin brought us a 1967 Pontiac Tempest that was a GTO wannabe awhile back (here), his car reminded me of a car I shot last summer. May I (Yang) present a 1966 Pontiac GTO.
Except maybe it’s not. I really don’t know. I have been wondering how to approach this car for quite awhile, but there is no time like the present. Since Yin gave us red, Yang shall present green. Reef Turquoise, actually. Mrs. JPC and my daughter came home early one evening and announced that there was a cool old car parked outside of the neighborhood Mexican eatery, and that I should go and check it out. I did, and they were right. Here it is. But what, exactly, is it?
As Paul told us, everybody and his brother has taken an old Tempest and turned it into a GTO clone that is indistinguishable from the genuine article to most of us who are unschooled in the VINtracacies of Poncho identification. This is understandable on one level, because the GTO is certainly one of the most iconic cars of the muscle car era, and widely considered to be the one that gave rise to the genre in 1964. It was John DeLorean, as head of the Pontiac Division, who led the guerilla campaign to stuff the big engine in the lightweight A body, contrary to GM’s corporate policy. The lore has become well known that by the time upper management found out about the subterfuge, the car was a hit. DeLorean kept his job and everyone else in the industry jumped on the big engine/small car bandwagon.
Here is my quandry. You will note that this car is an automatic with a column shift and no console separating its bucket seats. A review of the Pontiac sales literature of the time indicates that such a combination was possible. Is this one of those cars? If so, how depressing – a rip-roaring 389 with either a 4 barrel or triple 2 barrels trying to do its job through a miserable 2 speed automatic. Ugh. DeLorean could not have been very happy about that. In the brochure, the full sizer proudly boasts of a Turbo Hydramatic. The GTO? The generic “automatic transmission” doesn’t even merit a name. You can almost see the copywriters blushing just a bit as they typed it. But if anything could overcome the inherent weakness of the two speed drive, it would be the hairy chested big engine in the still-lightweight A body.
So, is this a genuine Goat? Or is this one of those many Tempest 326s that had a little cosmetic surgery (or has “had some work done” as we may more euphamistically say). To paraphrase the title of an old song, I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I don’t know enough about GTOs. So, I am going to leave the CC Commetariat whether this is a genuine GTO or whether it is the result of a Tempest combined with some money, some wrenches and a parts catalog.
But just because I don’t know the answer, doesn’t mean that I am above a little speculation. If you are doing breast augmentation on a Tempest, why do you stop short of a full console/floor shift conversion? Why do you paint it turquoise instead of resale red? And where are those redline tires on the Rally wheels? If you have a real column-shift GTO that has to be one of the rarest of them all, why would you throw in a homemade console thingy and drive the car out to a neighborhood Mexican restaurant and leave it unattended? I guess it does have “The Club” protecting it. And wouldn’t a restoration worthy of such a car have body seams that line up better than these? Just because I can ask these questions, don’t think that I have any idea how to answer any of them.
When I was a kid, my next door neighbor’s mother drove one of these – beige with a black vinyl roof and a 4 speed. One thing that I vividly recall about that car was the plastic woodgrain steering wheel, that I thought was one of the coolest things I had ever seen up to that time. My other vivid memory is how big of a mark the black handgrips on my Schwinn Stingray left along the paint on the left rear fender. Even though it rubbed out, my friend’s mother was not pleased. Mrs. Bordner’s ’66 was my favorite of her three GTOs (she later had a dark green ’68 and a lime green ’71). Still, the car did not carry the street cred among the neighborhood kids of Mr. Colchin’s Avanti down the block. The Avanti was supercharged, you see. And red. And any self-respecting 8 year old could tell you that any car with a supercharger (especially a red one) was faster than any tan car without. This only confirmed the other universal test of a car’s performance. The Avanti’s speedometer went to 160, while the GTO’s topped out at a mere 120. Only as we got older would we pay attention to esoteric things like the additional one hundred cubes under the hood of the Goat that made considerably more than the R2 Avanti’s 290 horses.
I have always considered the 1966 model to be the ultimate GTO. And it’s not just me. At nearly 97,000 units, the ’66 was GTO’s peak of popularity. In fact, this is one of the few 1966 cars that did not drop in sales from 1965′s industry-wide record breaking year. It is not hard to see from the lines of this car how DeLorean’s finely tuned team at the Pontiac Motor Division had their collective fingers on the pulse of the American youth market. The longer I look at this, the more I marvel at its nearly perfect styling. How many cars of the mid 1960s can we say was better looking than this one?
This was the first significant revision since the GTO came out as a 1964 model. I can only imagine the car-lust that this car would have caused on the auto show circuit in late 1965. No need for scantily clad women to drum up enthusiasm at the Pontiac exhibit that year. And is that a young Paul Niedermeyer drooling over the white OHC 6 LeMans Sprint in the background? Pontiac truly did build excitement in 1966.
But back to the question of the day. Is it live or is it Memorex? Does she or doesn’t she? Is you is or is you ain’t? Sorry, I jumped aboard the obsolete metaphor bus, then missed my stop. I see that this car lacks that woodgrain steering wheel. Maybe it was an option, or maybe it came with the console. Or maybe this is the giveaway that this car is (or was) “just” a Tempest.
However, as Paul so ably pointed out, being “just” a Tempest was no small thing in 1966-67. This was a beautiful car, and would have looked no less attractive in anodized aluminum wheelcovers and whitewalls and with that 326 logo on the fender.
Maybe Paul’s red ’67 and this aqua ’66 are not so much Yin and Yang, as they are “before” and “after” GTO plastic surgery. And if I can say nothing else definitively about this car, I can positively state that I like this color MUCH better than I like resale red.
I bet Israel. The clone crowd would have added a floor shift & changed the color to red or black. this is one of my favoriite year GTOs in one of my favorite colors.
On the contrary, there is nothing more stupid to me than a bucket seat column shift car. My step-sister’s ’69 Camaro was ordered the same way — it even had the 2-speed trans.
About 12-13 miles from where we live in rural NC, there’s one of these sitting in an open barn not 40 feet from the road, It’s right there but all you can see are two stacked headlights since the rest of the car is blocked by stacks of old appliances.
I asked wife to stop the car as I had to know what it was — turns out it was real ’66 GTO in the above color, only with black bucket seats & console. Awful 2-speed transmission but the car still wore its original wheelcovers.. The hood was ajar a bit & I noticed a 4-barrel, not three-twos. It was in perfect shape from what I could see & must have been sitting there 15-20 years.
Too bad everyone everyone puts the Rally I or Rally II wheels on these when they restore them “to original”.
I believe that it was GM’s practice at the time, that if you ordered an automatic and bucket seats, but not a console, then the shifter would be on the column.
Would you please share location in ruaral NC, could the car be for sale?
Thanks,
I dont know anything about the differences between a GTO and Tempest, so I am just pulling this opinion FMA. But I could see a guy with a nice looking Tempest simply slapping on some GTO badges and calling it a day. Its much more expensive to change it out to a floor-shift center console, and since he didnt put stock wheels on it, I would guess he isnt going for the full on restoration anyway. Maybe he did a decent respray and bodywork on the Tempest to get it road ready as a driver, and in the future will be dropping in a mean big block 4-speed combo, just hasnt gotten the funds yet.
Or maybe it really is a super rare 2-sp auto GTO, and the guy just doesn’t care to restore it, he enjoys driving it as is, complete with period correct aftermarket wheels. Those are not my favorite wheels, but they do look good on that car!
As for the color, I like this much better than red anyway, IMO these big long early cars look better in lighter colors.
The rear tail panel was different on the GTO. Changing from Tempest taillights to GTO units required a bit of cutting and welding…not for the faint of heart. The GTO tailights in ’66 are absolutely beautfiul aren’t they?
A lot of LeMans & Tempest cars were bucket seat console cars.
FWIW there’s no such terms as big & small block in the Pontiac lexicon. They are all the same block, with the exception of the short deck 265-301(and the super rare, race-only 303), which isn’t really recognized by the cognoscenti anyway.
Also, the 2-speed auto versions aren’t as rare as you might think. Remember, a lot of people wanted the look but weren’t really had-core performance freaks.
Much like a 2-wheel drive SUV today.
Whether it is a “Tempest” in a teapot or a genuine GTO makes little difference to me – it’s drop-dead beautiful no matter what.
Come to think of it, dad always wanted the Olds F-85 version of these. I had to agree with him. Me? Make mine a Chevelle…
THere is no “small block” Pontiac V8. From 1955 up to 197?, they were all pretty much the same block. The 421 and 455 had some internal modifications, probably to clear the crankshaft counterweights. But it was all the same block. The 326 (335 actually) was just a smaller displacement 389. There was no “stuffing” a 389 into the space for the 326. Same block. There may have been external differences like water pump housing and pulley arrangement, but the block itself was the same.
You are correct about the Pontiac V8 block being essentially the same block, whether in 326 or 389 form. However, I was referring to displacement rather than physical engine size. There had been a GM policy in place that limited A body models to a maximum displacement of 330 cubic inches, which was the size of the smallest-displacement Olds V8. John DeLorean and Pete Estes snuck their way around the displacement limit and installed the 389 that had previously been available only in the full sized cars.
But your point is a good one, in that it is easy to forget that not everybody in the 60s did the “small block”/”big block” thing. I am no expert in GM V8 engines, for the smaller GM divisions, it was necessary to get more variation in displacement out of a single design than over at Chevrolet or Ford. Pontiac (and I believe) Oldsmobile had V8s that were very versitile from a displacement standpoint.
Well, yes and no. As Fred said, the Pontiac engine is largely the same, whatever the displacement (although the 421/428/455 had larger journals and the 301 was extensively redesigned to reduce its weight). By 1961, both Oldsmobile and Buick had distinct large and small V8s. With later iterations, the big and small block engines had a lot of design similarities, but they weren’t the same in the way a Pontiac 350 and 400 were.
(Incidentally, the Olds and Buick versions of the aluminum 215 were not identical, either. The block is basically the same, but they have different heads and pistons.)
1955 to 1981, Pontiac V8. No small or big blocks.
Only the early transaxle Tempests had the 336 CID size. From 1964, they truly were 326s.
As I recall, in 1964 GTO was an option package for the Le Mans, and not a separate model. That would account for the fact that the VIN doesn’t indicate whether or not a Le Mans is a GTO or not. I would think, however, that the VIN would indicate that the engine was a 389 if it was a real GTO.
Probably not my favorite color but it is a refreshing change to the red, black, or white Goats one used to see in the day. The wheels aren’t quite period correct. The original American Torq Thrust Ds would have had gray spokes with a machined rim. The fully polished units that this car has came way later, but look good anyway.
The option package was the subterfuge they used to sneak in the 389 wasn’t it? Wouldn’t a GTO be the only way to get a 389 in 64?
All I have to offer here is the 1966 Tempest (yes, it’s a “real” one!) that was my grandparents car which ultimately ended up in my posession years later.
OHC Six and two-speed Powerglide, plus the “Wondertouch™” power steering and brakes made this a true road trip car. I remember the grands and my parents always commenting on how easily the car would cruise up to 90 or so.
When I got it, the OHC Six top end had already succombed, so I built a mild four-bolt Chevy 350 and mated it to a THM350. I’ll never forget the evening my grandmother helped me install the engine in the car out in her driveway!
I left the exterior of the car as you see it in the photo – bone stock. It was my “sleeper GTO.”
That car is gorgeous. Nice color combo. LIke the wheelcovers — those were the ones on the GTO “barn find” I blathered about previously.
The two-speed automatic in the mid-sixties Tempest is NOT Powerglide (unless somebody has replaced it with a non-stock transmission). It’s Pontiac’s version of the Super Turbine 300/Jetaway two-speed, minus the variable-pitch stator used by Buick and Olds from 1964-67.
I have always been curious about this. Just how different was this unit from the Powerglide. I recall being around these cars, including many years with my family’s 64 Cutlass. The unit certainly had that PG-like whine at idle in Park. Were these based off of the PG somehow, or did one or some combination of the Divisions get together with a clean sheet of paper to design a fresh 2 speed auto that was not invented at Chevrolet?
Same basic design, but a little more stout, with extra clutch packs and such. And the BOP bolt pattern of course.
The latter. See, when the senior compacts were introduced for 1961, each originally had a different transmission: Olds had the smaller Roto Hydra-Matic, Buick a two-speed Torque Drive transmission of its own design, and Pontiac the two-speed TempesTorque transaxle, which was based on Powerglide, but had some unique features; both the TempesTorque and Torque Drive had a “split-torque” function in high gear that allowed the engine to turn the output shaft both through the converter and directly through the front planetary, analogous to a diesel-electric locomotive. (The intention was to reduce slippage at cruising speeds.)
Even for GM, having three different automatics was expensive, particularly since none of those three cars was selling in what GM would have considered big numbers. When Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac started planning the more conventional mid-size ’64 A-bodies, there was pressure from upstairs to develop a common automatic transmission. Their engineers sat down and developed a clean-sheet two-speed/torque converter automatic (I think it was primarily a Buick design, with input from the others, but I don’t recall for sure). It inevitably had some similarities with Powerglide, but it wasn’t the same transmission and I doubt they shared any significant components.
The big difference was the variable-pitch stator used on Buick and Oldsmobile versions through 1967. Pontiac never used that feature, perhaps to save money, perhaps because their V-8 wasn’t at all short of torque even in its smaller displacements.
Excellent clarification, except for a minor quibble: diesel-electric locomotives have no mechanical connection of any sort between their power plants and the wheels. They are strictly electric locomotives, with their own generator on board, instead of an external source.
The split-torque function in these automatics reflects a time (late fifties/early-sixties) when fuel consumption was still more of an issue. Gas prices kept dropping all through the sixties, in inflation-adjusted terms, and even more so in terms of purchasing power. Hence the trend to bigger engines and “softer” automatics. For a while, anyway.
Ah, yes – I believe you’ve corrected me before on that… Back when I had the car, I always heard the two-speed referred to as “power glide,” and I’ve always had that stuck in my head.
All I remember was the engine would wiiiiiiiiiiiind out in “first,” and then mush into “second.” You really couldn’t even feel the shift.
FWIW, I cast my vote for it being the real thing. Why would someone go to the trouble of changing out the rear panel and everything else, to leave the column shifter? One of the strategies to sell more GTOs was to offer a wider array of versions, Starting in ’68, even a 2 barrel lo-po version 400 was available. It’s the formula that worked so well for the Mustang.
As mentioned before, a 66 GTO has a totally unique rear panel that makes cloning a LeMans or Tempest into a GTO is not easy, also, the 2 speed automatic and column shift are not “super rare”, true the automatic sucks, but they sold a bunch of them, in fact, due to the nature of the person that would have bought an automatic, you would probably find an automatic survivor today, it wouldn’t have bothered me in 66, I would have gotten a 4 speed anyway.
The wood grain on the dash is another GTO only feature, though the wood wheel was an option. I believe buckets were standard on all GTO’s and the base trans was a3 speed manual transmission with Hurst shifter, neither had a console, it was a stand alone option regardless of manual or automatic, this interior is what you would have gotten if you ordered an automatic, but didn’t spec a console, buckets with a column shift.
I often wonder if some customers that ordered these cars incorrectly assumed that bucket seats also meant floor shift. Why even have bucket seats when there’s nothing separating them? It’s not like these seats were supportive or anything!
Not if they looked at the brochure or order sheet or had a really lame salesman. Options were where they made their money, and it also allowed them to have a lower base price. Take a look at the 60′s Pontiac Performance brochures the words “extra cost” appear many times. Back then you sat down at the salesman’s desk and went through the order sheet line by line while the salesman referred to his order guide and tried to upsell you to getting everything, as well as made sure that it was a combo the factory would build w/o a special order. IE specific axle ratios available with specific transmissions ect.
In 1966 the baseline transmission was a three-on-the-tree. Check out the ’66 brochure on Old Cars Brochures.
Not on a GTO, GTO’s all had a floor shift 3 speed manual standard with a Hurst linkage, other Pontiacs did have a 3 on the tree however.
With the mix and match stuff that can go on with older cars like this, even I’m a little fuzzy on what all a 66 Goat could have. Looking at it, it does look like a genuine Goat, and someone else mentioned the tail lights, which were a lot different. (see my pix)
I could see the column shift even with the GTO package, GM would build all kinds of things if you would ask them.
I subscribe to High Performance Pontiac and I recently read an article in there about a 1972 Trans Am that was painted all red (not an option for ’72 T/A’s) and came with a column shift automatic. It was special ordered by the guy who ran SCCA’s Trans Am division back in the 1970′s. He got what he wanted. So, I could see this happening on a GTO also…
FWIW, I really like this car the way it is. Maybe the only thing better would be a 442, but I wasn’t that crazy about the contemporary styling of the Cutlasses back then. I much prefer the 1968 and later models. I had a 1972, so I am a little biased in that area…
Any 70 to about 74 or 75 F-body got the column shift if you ordered auto trans and no console. The Trans-Am wasn’t exempt from this policy. Column shift T/As are not as unheard of as you might think.
I may be suffering from the same misconception that the OP has here, that is: no GTOs without consoles and floor shifters. I guess I’ve fallen into the trap that says what’s popular now was popular then…
I can’t remember seeing many F bodies with column shifts, but there may be more out there than I realize. I do remember seeing low line Firebirds with column shifts, but very few.
It might have only been in 64 and 65 since the GTO was technically an option package, but I do believe that at least a few were made with bench seats. I let my membership in the POCI lapse for a few years now, but IIRC, someone in the club was trying to put together a registry of bench seat GTOs.
You guys are bringing me around. All of this talk reminds me that my stepmom had a 68 Cutlass Supreme with bucket seats and a column shift automatic. I guess these were more prevalent than I had believed. Still, I am not sure why anyone would have wanted such a combination.
I have wondered the same thing. Automatic Camaros up through the ’77 (& possibly ’78) model year were column shift unless the D55 Console was ordered.
Firebirds were similar although I’m not sure of what year the console became standard. 20 so years ago, a guy was trying to sell me his ’74 Formula 400 Firebird.. It was ordered with the weird Fuel Economy gauge package & was column shift. It may have been a ’75 as I’m not sure if that gauge setup was availiable in ’74. Weird either way.
While the performance enthusiasts might look down on the 2-speed column shift automatic, it is certainly true that a 389 engine in that size car had more than enough torque…it didn’t really need a lot of gears. Like my 383 Barracuda, which would have been fine with a 3-speed transmission instead of the 4-speed as long as it had a syncromesh first gear.
Whatever that car is, it’s a winner. A kid that lived down the street from me in 1970 had a 66 or 67 GTO. A nice car, white with a black interior. He was about 19 or 20 at the time and the car needed a new battery. He would manually push it down our street, jump in and pop the clutch to start it. One day it wouldn’t start as he’s popping the clutch and he coasts down this little hill which led to the river. A couple of minutes later, I see the guy walking back up the hill and back to his house.
He got a new battery after that.
Yes, kids, there were column shift ‘muscle cars’. And, check drag racers and see many have Powerglides, not 4 on the floor as some “assume”.
As to ‘Why would someone want column shifter?’, well, people back then were not like today’s conformist consumer culture.
The Pontiac GTO story has been told over and over and well documented. There is no reason to make “assumptions”.
I was also going to mention that a lot of drag cars have 2-speed automatics. You want the engine to still be in its powerband after each upshift. With factory gearing, I think a lot of cars with 3-speeds would only get through 1st and 2nd gears by the end of the quarter mile anyhow.
There’s also the point we previously discussed vis-à-vis Powerglide, which is that some of the two-speeds, having lighter internals, consumed less horsepower than a three-speed TorqueFlite or THM.
+1 we are used to consoles now but back then a lot of people complained about not being able to slide across the front and exit out the other side. my guess is that it was bought by a some guy who compromised with his wife on the choice of column shift automatic. i can imagine my father doing something like this…
Real or not its a very nice car auto on the tree wouldnt be my choice and Id swap it out but it could be original if it was offered its the gently used cars that have survived cars that got hard use no matter the model usually got scrapped early on.
My brother in law’s then new 67 GTO.
I’ll take a 67 with the 400 and turbo 400 3 speed auto. Put a vinyl top on mine too. I don’t need a hood tach, but I sure would like a/c, hd suspension and the top radio option available.
My mom had a new ’67 GTO hardtop coupe with the 400, 3-speed auto with column shift and no console, Linden Green with black vinyl roof and black Morrokide interior, a/c, power steering and brakes, and positraction, plus a non-factory 8-track/FM player (I think the factory 8-track was only offered in the full-size cars that year). A friend of ours was a Pontiac dealer and this replaced our ’65 Bonneville convertible. Unfortunately I totaled it in a hydroplaning accident on the interstate outside of Hartford on my way to college in 1974; radial tires and disc brakes might have helped, but of course it had bias-plys and drums all around.
I’m surprised to see this one – this whole generation of GM intermediates rusted quickly; in fact our ’67 was stripped and repainted after 3 or 4 years, by the dealer, because it was already starting to rust.
I vote OEM. Looks like a strippo, base GTO hardtop with just a couple of options (auto, radio). Probably originally just came with dog-dish hubcaps, too (although this one looks like it has extra rocker panel trim). Maybe an end-of-model-year car where they just slap on whatever’s left before the model year changeover.
Back then, musclecars could be ordered like the non-musclecar versions simply because they came down the same assembly lines and it was very easy to make the same combinations.
This car has A/C as well.
Ah once upon a time when the dealer would order what you wanted and you wanted what you got…
I kind of miss those days. Just about everybody factory ordered cars and then the wait was on for that call from the dealership. A co-worker at my job in high school factory ordered a new 66 Lemans pillared coupe in metallic blue with buckets and column automatic, 326 engine, AM radio, full wheel covers, blackwalls, no PS or PB. I got to drive it quite a bit and it had would perform pretty well despite the two-speed. It was a little too light in the rear and would fishtail in icy weather if you got on it too fast. Beautiful car, loved the 66-67s. My great aunt’s last car was a factory ordered 67 Tempest Custom coupe with the OHC six and automatic, PS/PB, dog dish caps and blackwalls. Another good one.
I don’t know what sales figures look like but I remember seeing a fair number of GTOs and other muscle cars from this era with column automatics.
Another factory ordered car: a friend in high school special ordered a 67 442 convertible with 4speed and bench seat because he did not want the ladies to sit far away in a bucket seat.
Another factory ordered car: a friend in high school special ordered a 67 442 convertible with 4speed and bench seat because he did not want the ladies to sit far away in a bucket seat.
Yeah just cause you want power doesn’t mean you should have to forego cuddles…
But of course we’re getting to the point where you can’t hardly buy a truck without a console.
The last car I can recall someone factory ordering to get exactally what they wanted was my Dad’s buddy Bob who ordered a 1987 Oldsmobile 442 and managed to place his order before it was announced that 1987 would be the last year for the 442. He ordered his with every option EXCEPT t-tops because every car he every had with t-tops leaked. After the news broke the dealer desperately tried to buy the car back but Bob wouldn’t take any of his offers for it.
Not really, many people bought cars right from the dealership lot, my grand parents and parents never ordered a car, they would shop around to see who had what they wanted and they made a deal on that. Yes people could order what they wanted exactly, but most would make do with the instant gratification of driving a new car home right now.
Not literally, no; most cars were bought off the lot. I was trying to say that lots of people – from all income levels and all walks of life – ordered cars in the 60′s. I grew up in a small midwestern town and I could provide dozens of examples from family, friends, and neighbors. Even waitresses at the restaurant I worked for in high school ordered cars, everything from the LeMans noted above to an Impala SS, to a first-in-town 65 Mustang (Tropical Turquoise, a great color – my cousin later ordered a 67 Mustang in Frost Turquoise). One uncle always ordered his Chevies because he wanted a nice model but with no equipment – what dealer would have stocked his 66 Impala with a six cylinder, three on the tree, and dog dish caps?
It was a fun experience sitting down with the salesman and the order book but for me as a kid it was sometimes disappointing because my Dad wouldn’t order much in terms of optional equipment and I wanted a lot more boxes checked off! That would change later on when he bought fully loaded cars off the showroom floor so I guess not ordering had its advantages, too…
My family never ordered – they were people who would go into the lot in mid-summer to buy at the tail end of the model year. You either took what was on the lot, or the dealer would try to find one close to what you wanted and trade for it. My mother never would have ordered power windows in her 72 Cutlass Supreme – that would be decadent, you see. But because Cutlass Supreme coupes were in short supply in July of 1972, she gave up on her first choice on color and took the power windows to get one with air.
We had one family friend who insisted that you should NEVER order a car. If you picked the one in front of you, you knew what you had and didn’t risk getting one that was put together badly. But then, he was a Chrysler guy, so his fear was quite a reasonable one in the early 1970s.
Before the 70′s most cars were ordered by the purchaser it wasn’t until the mid 70′s that the shift was made. Prior to that time dealers didn’t stock that many cars and the cars the stocked they ordered based on what they thought they could sell. After the first energy crisis and the resulting economic woes mfgs, to keep the lines running, starting making cars they thought they could sell. The next thing you know we were introduced rebates to move the cars that were overproduced or were the EXACT car that someone wanted.
Remember until the mid 70′s the Olds advertising tag line was “Can we build one for you?” and they switched it to “We built one for you” after the switch was made from most cars being ordered to most cars being bought off the lot.
I’m guessing it’s legit, but it’s just a guess. GTOs were a rare beast in Canada until about 1970. I do know column shifts were fairly common in muscle cars, despite some folks assumptions that they all came with buckets and console. I recall 2 firebirds, a ’68 and a ’71, with 400s and column shift automatics. The ’68 had a weird bench seat with bucket type backs and a drop down arm rest. The ’71 had standard high back buckets with nothing in between. Maybe it was a Pontiac thing.
I installed a Hurst Autostick in the ’71 for the guy that owned it and thats why I remember it. So weird combos like that do exist.
Whatever it is, I love it, especially the colour.
This is off topic, I guess, but here goes anyway. Why do new cars come equipped with alloy style wheels, or, at least plastic wheel covers Mage to look like them? What happened to hubcaps with trim rings like the new “New Beetle” offers? Cheaper, and just as useful.
Fuel economy, performance, ride, braking and handling. Aluminum wheels are lighter than steel wheels (at least quality Aluminum wheels). Since it is a rotating mass weight loss there provides a greater benefit to acceleration, braking and fuel economy than the same amount of weight reduction on a non-rotating part. Since wheels are an unsprung weight it means their motion is harder to control so make them lighter and the shocks don’t have to be as stiff to control them and you get better ride and handling.
The plastic wheel covers made to look like aluminum wheels are so the low end models blend in better and they are much much cheaper and lighter than stainless steel the traditional wheel cover material.
FWIW, I would hazard a guess with the lightweight steel wheels that are available these days that it would be a tie compared to the 18, 19 & 20 + alloy wheels that are common on many cars.
For me, I have a car with the steel wheels and full plastic wheel covers. Living in snow country with our daily driver, it is much less expensive to replace a steel wheel and plastic wheel cover than it is an alloy wheel. No matter how hard you try, it’s surprisingly easy to find a pothole or slide into a curb or some other similar catastrophe.
A replacement 17″ steel wheel for my 2009 Pontiac G6? $100. A replacement wheel cover? $40. A replacement 17″ alloy wheel? Between $180 to $240. Each. GM wheels are relatively cheap, too.
A friend of mine pranged a factory alloy on his Ford 500 when it was new; while his insurance covered the replacement, he was shocked to find out that it cost $400 to do so. Just the wheel. The tire was an extra $140 on top of that…
I can’t begin to imagine what those factory 20″ wheels go for, even on the used market. It’s got to be an arm and a leg…
I love alloy wheels on my cars, but for a DD in this part of the world, it’s a hard sell to me.
One thing to consider is total tire and wheel weight. Yes a smaller steel wheel may not weigh that much less than the larger Aluminum wheel but that high profile tire weighs a fair amount more than the low profile one.
I’m not so sure about the cost of replacing the steel and a wheel cover being less. For less than the same cost you quoted I got brand new 17″ aluminum for my wife’s Grand Marquis, granted they are aftermarket OE replacements but the factory wheels weren’t that much more.
However the pricing can vary greatly. For example lots of the OE Mustang 17″ wheels can be had for about what you paid for the steel wheel and wheel cover. On the other hand the list price for 1 OE wheel for my Marauder was over $1200 when they were still available, But with slightly different machining for the center cap and sold as for a V6 Mustang they are about $200 each.
Hi Eric – I was strictly comparing OEM 17″ Pontiac/GM wheels to one another, but from a recycler, not a dealer or factory source. Those prices would be much higher. Additionally, some wheels are less expensive on the market than others; there are (originally) Chevy or Saturn fitments that would work on my car, and they were less money than the ‘original’ Pontiac wheels. Truly, the combinations are almost infinite.
My major issue is that steel wheels on modern cars are pretty darn lightweight as opposed to the ones from years ago. Regardless, they’re pretty darn cheap and look pretty good when clothed in a full wheel cover as they are today. Very durable for life here in the snowbelt where poop happens.
As an example, my wife had a fender bender, her car got sideswiped by a Camry. Our front bumper cover and fender are a little distorted. Oddly, the wheel cover is bore the brunt of the damage. If the same thing happened to an alloy wheel, I’d be out almost $200! As it is, the steel wheel is fine, and I need to order a plastic wheel cover for about $40.
Granted, that’s probably a rare circumstance, but multiply this several times during the usable life of a car, and it adds up.
That said, I still want to drop about $800 for a set of factory alloys. I love the look of them. What can I say?
Ouch, $100 for a used steel wheel, those prices I quoted were for new.
Search E-bay for used/take-offs if you want to upgrade to factory alloys. I’ve got lots of ones for the summer tires for various cars for pretty cheap. I’ve never spent more than about $500 to my door for a set of 4.
That is a beautiful car. One of the definite high points of Bill Mitchell’s styling prowess.
Our strippo ’67 Chevy Bel Air back in the day was the exact same color, of course with a different name since it was on a Chevy instead of a Pontiac.
Are these modern wheels aluminum or some alloy? Cars come equipped with them with all wheel sizes, not just with those silly 19 and 20 inch wheels. Frankly, I doubt they contribute much to the ride of 90per cent of the vehicles sold with them. They come on everything from subcompacts to one ton pickup trucks. For my ranch trucks, we replace them with steel wheels and sell the mag ones back to the dealer. In our experience, they just don’t hold up well with hard use
Looks like these are 17″ wheels, which would be the absolute maximum I’d run on a car like this. The suspension geometry just doesn’t work with real low profile rubber. 16″ would give a more fitting appearance however.
I admire the valuable data you provide in your articles or blog posts.
If it helps I purchased my 1966 GTO in May of 1968. It has a ST-300 2sp on the column. I always had trouble convincing people it is stock. I have the as built from PHS. I’m in the process of a frame off restoration. No shifter holes cut in the floor.
Bob
Hi Rick, sorry not for sale.
I will be needing a torque converter for my ST-300 with the veriable-pitch stator also called switch-pitch.
any infor where I can find one?
Thanks,Bob
I think the rear bumper is G.T.O.
That is a True G.T.O I have the same care that I’m currently restoring. reef Turquise and Turquise interior also. 389 2 spd on the column.The car was built in California and I have the build sheet that just happened to be under the back seat.I feel these were very rare cars. I would love to get my hands on the actual numbers. Thanks if there are any production numbers on these i would love to see them.
I did a little more research on my 66 GTO.
It came as built ST-300, 2 sp on the column.
Standard torque converter, not a variable pitch like the Old’s and Buick.
Like you,I would also like to know how many were built this way.
Had mine since 1968, doing a frame off restoration.
I did a little more research on my 66 GTO.
It came as built ST-300, 2 sp on the column.
Standard torque converter, not a variable pitch like the Old’s and Buick.
Like you,I would also like to know how many were built this way.
Had mine since 1968, doing a frame off restoration.
He Robert,
I highly suggest contacting Pontiac Historical Services, http://www.phs-online.com
They will give (sell) you exactly what you want to know. I believe they even provide a copy of the original window sticker as well as build number and production info. The package comes with a lot of great info. I used them once and was very impressed with what I got for the price. I believe it is still less than $100.00 for the package.
Nice car, we need some pictures.
Hi Philhawk,
I did order from PHS.
It says 2sp standard on the column, optional on the floor.
It”s doesn’t say how many were built on the column.
Thanks for your reply, any info we can get helps.
Happy New Year
Robert and Phil Thanks for your help.
I was talking to some of my Drag Racing buddy’s and they said that you could really build up that 2spd for the Drag Strip.
That’s something I may be interested in.
Not that I’ll be taking a total restoration to the Strip.
What info can you get on what has to be done?
Thanks, Bob
Me either. But I will see what I can find out.
As others have said, it is most likely a real GTO. The easiest way to be sure is to check the VIN. In ’66, the GTO was it’s own model, not simply an option package on the Tempest like ’64 and ’65. If the first 3 digits are 242, then it’s a GTO.
That reminds me of a GTO that was in my neighborhood growing up. It was a silver ’68, 2 barrel 400 with an automatic on the column.
It’s owner bought it new, right before shipping off to Vietnam, where he was KIA. His parents kept the car at least into the early ’90′s, which was the last time I saw it. We hounded the owner for YEARS to sell it. It was garage kept and driven regularly and as close to a factory perfect GTO you’ll ever find. My friend lived next door, and every time the owner’s dad washed it, we’d go over and bugged him about it. He was very cool about our bothering him though and would answer our questions about it. Now, as a dad myself, I can see why he kept that car and took such good care of it as a remebrance of his son.
I’ve always wondered what happened to that car, and hope that another family member has taken it, or at least it was sold to someone who would care for it properly.
BTW, here is a pic of my “restified” ’66 GTO ‘vert. It was originally a 4bbl, 4 speed, Montero Red, with black interior and white top. It now sports a full roller 462, heavily modded ’66 Tripower KRE heads, Tremec TKO 600 5 speed, 4:11 Moser 12 bolt. It runs 7.60s/mid 90s in the 1/8th mile.
As others have said, it is most likely a real GTO. The easiest way to be sure is to check the VIN. In ’66, the GTO was it’s own model, not simply an option package on the Tempest like ’64 and ’65. If the first 3 digits are 242, then it’s a GTO. ’72 through ’74 models reverted back to option status.
The column shift, no console discussion reminds me of a GTO that was in my neighborhood growing up. It was a silver ’68, 2 barrel 400 with an automatic on the column.
It’s owner bought it new, right before shipping off to Vietnam, where he was KIA. His parents kept the car at least into the early ’90′s, which was the last time I saw it. We hounded the owner for YEARS to sell it. It was garage kept and driven regularly and as close to a factory perfect GTO you’ll ever find. My friend lived next door, and every time the owner’s dad washed it, we’d go over and bugged him about it. He was very cool about our bothering him though and would answer our questions about it. Now, as a dad myself, I can see why he kept that car and took such good care of it as a remebrance of his son.
I’ve always wondered what happened to that car, and hope that another family member has taken it, or at least it was sold to someone who would care for it properly.
BTW, here is a pic of my ground up “restified” ’66 GTO ‘vert. It was originally a 4bbl, 4 speed (no console), Montero Red, with black interior and white top. It now sports a full roller 462, heavily modded ’66 Tripower KRE heads, Tremec TKO 600 5 speed, 4:11 Moser 12 bolt. It runs 7.60s/mid 90s in the 1/8th mile.