Paul gave us some fun looking at the Best Cars of 1967 a couple days ago, and Tom alluded to the “best” cars of the 1980s this morning. Let’s now take a moment to turn the dial on the Way Back Machine the other direction…
What currently-available vehicle (car, truck, bike, etc.) do you think we’ll be writing about as one of the “Best of the early 2010s” in a couple decades? Think about the qualities that make you fond of the cars you read about here today… is there anything on the new car lot that will get you excited in the same way when it has +200K on the clock and the paint is faded (and mossy if you live in Eugene)?
Last of the W-body Impalas. Solid, dependable, lots of metal for the money and not half-bad looking. Current crop of Cadillac cars and everything else based on the Epsilon ll platform.
Hyundai/Kia as well.
Toyota and Honda? Well, they’re…there.
Current generation Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers, of course.
I strongly concur on the Epsilon/Epsilon II/Super Epsilon platform – Malibu, LaCrosse, Regal, Cadillac XTS, etc. GM has had the fear of the Lord put into them by the recent bankruptcy and subsequent market struggles and is making very sure that their current products are first rate. I do not think there is any doubt that millions will still be on the road in 20+ years.
Also, in the current highly competitive market all manufacturers have gone to great lengths to make their cars idiot proof/owner proof so spotty maintenance is not the huge problem that it was just a few years ago.
Uh, none Ed.
I guess I’m one of those people who doesn’t give a lick about new cars and intentionally don’t pay attention.
New cars are for people who don’t care about depreciation (or can’t do math!). I have an appliance to get me around day to day, and my 63 Beetle and two motorcycles to have fun with. These days you have to have a dichotomy between interesting vehicles and transportation, too expensive and/or inconvenient to have both at the same time.
Maybe it’s just me, I’ve always felt that way. Back in the 1970’s I used to check out car dealerships with my Father. Particularly at the VW dealership he’d look around out front and I’d immediately head behind the building to check out the 20 rusted Beetle carcasses in the grass.
I’ll get back to you in 5 years Ed, when I’m ready to replace the Focus and depreciation has done it’s magic on the 2012’s.
Mustang/Camaro/Challenger
300/Charger
Toyota Toyota GT 86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ
Audi A4/5 & BMW 3-Series
Miata
CTS-V
Corollas (not because we’ll want to, but because they’re the cockroach car of the future)
Buick Lacrosse (because you know there’s an guy buying one right now that his wife will still be driving to the grocer once a week in 2050, and CC will get the pic.
Hank has probably nailed most of the current cars that most people will get excited about when they see one on the road in 20 years. I’ll also add the Corvette, Cadillac XLR (no longer produced but still a recent car), Tesla roadster and possibly the Volt.
Personally, there are no new cars I can think of that get me truly excited in a “I wish I owned one” way. Going back 20 years to 1992, there are only a handful of cars that I’d like to own.
I take note when I see just about anything 20 years old still driving around. My wife and friends have learned to live with this. A couple weeks ago I spotted a pristine 1st gen Taurus parked at the mall and pointed it out to my friend I was with. Is it uncommon today? Yes. Did he care? Not at all. Would I want to own it? No.
I respectfully add the WRX/WRX STi to the list, as well as the now sadly departed Legacy 2.5 GT. All wheel drive, turbocharged cars with boxer engines are desirable, and to at least the populations of Oregon, New England, and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, will be appreciated well into the future.
Toyota Highlander -2005 era- they just get the job done with minimal repairs or drama.
The Ford GT. Everything else can be disposed of/recycled in a few years as their manufacturers designed them to. No love lost here.
The most sought-after car will be (as much as it pains me to say it) the current Camaro. Knowing that car collectibility always follows what the youth want (and what they wish their parents bought), I polled my sons (ages 18 and 20). The Transformer tie-in with the Camaro has been huge with their generation. The Camaro has much more cool-factor among that demographic than the Mustang or Challenger. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger will also have a following.
As for best cars? The recently departed Panther. Also, the 3800 powered Buicks and Chevys. And Honda Fits (and maybe Civics and Elements). There will be a nice selection of Avalons with AAA Plus stickers on the back bumpers, as well.
It pains me to say that JPC is on the right track, inasmuch as the cars we talk about here were mostly the cars of our youth, right? That’s when we get excited about new things, so we can reminisce about them in our later years.
The only new cars that have created some sort of emotional response recently have been the the Alfa 8C, the Fiat 500, The Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ, Morgan Three-wheeler replica, and, and….
But that doesn’t really answer your question as to which of them we’ll still be excited about after twenty years and 200k miles: None. We’ll still be talking about the cars of our youth.
The bigger question really is, will the kids of today be talking about the cars of today twenty years from now? My guess: not very much.
I think you’re bang on there Paul. Based on my limited sample of 2:
My 11 year old son isn’t interested at all. I’m trying to train him to guess “Model A Ford” whenever we see a 1930’s car on the basis that he’ll be right at least half the time. We saw one yesterday and he remembered “Ford” so that’s progress, but really he doesn’t care and that’s fine.
My 14 year old nephew is a bit of a car nut, but he likes modern cars, especially exotics. A co-worker gives me his old Road&Track, I read Peter Egan’s column, thumb through the rest in 10 seconds then give it to my nephew. He pores over the road tests and figures, and asks me if I like the new Aventador. I say “The what?” and ask him if he likes the Miura. He says “The what?”
I’m not sure that his interest in cars well out of reach will turn into an interest in achievable cars. We’ll see in the next few years.
There is the obvious stuff like the current Corvette, Miata, etc.
I think the Nissan Juke has a decent chance as well – something a bit different. I suspect the current Jeep Wrangler will to – in a sea of pretend SUVs it is actually the real deal.
Good call on the Miata. I forgot that one. It will go down as one of the great cars of this era. Unfortunately, today’s kids (from my admittedly small sample) consider the Miata to be a fogeymobile. Every time I talk about how I would like to have one, my kids roll their eyes and try to talk me into a Mustang instead. They may be onto something. I am not sure I have ever seen someone younger than 45 driving a Miata in quite awhile.
Check out http://clubroadster.net/ and you’ll see plenty of youth love for the miata… though taken places you might not agree with (hellaflush?).
What is the best car today is not necessarily what will be collected tomorrow.
For all of the love showered on Hemi-powered Mopars from the 1960s and early 1970s, for example, they were extremely rare when new. As a young kid in the early 1970s, seeing a Hemi-powered Mopar ranked up there with seeing a Jaguar or a Ferrari in our small town. The 1970 Plymouth Superbird and 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona, so revered today, were such sales dogs that dealers often had to virtually give them away. Why? Because they did not meet the needs and pocketbooks of 99 percent of the people buying new cars at that time.
I would say that the current Honda Accord and Civic are among the best cars available. I doubt, however, that many people will be collecting them in the future, aside from the Civic Si or occasional Accord coupe, along with a well-preserved sedan bought by someone who never drove it much.
More than likely, based on what I see at the various Carlisle events, any of the retro pony cars (Camaro, Mustang, Challenger), the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger, the Corvette, the Mazda Miata and MAYBE the Focus hatchbacks and the Scions (particularly the coupe) will be collected in the future.
Someone (Baruth?) wrote a column on TTAC about the sole survivors from previous eras being cars that, for reasons of impracticality or affordability, did not sell in great volume when they came out. Thus a Cosworth Vega might be easier to find than a base Vega now, not because they sold well, but because who hangs onto a base Vega?
I can think of one example of this offhand: The CTS sedan outsells the wagon and coupe versions by a healthy margin, but I think I’ll be more likely to find a CTS wagon or coupe in great shape in 20 years than a sedan–they are striking cars (though not everyone views them positively), and more likely to receive special attention, whereas the CTS sedan by now is a seen-one, seen-em-all car.
Mazda RX-8
Buick Regal GS with stick shift
Cadillac DTS (yes, really)
Maybe we’re looking at this the wrong way. We have been turning the question into “What cars from today will be collectible in the future?”, which is discussed fairly often. Ed was actually asking us something more nebulous: to think like people in 20 years from now commenting on cars which might appear on a top-10 list from 2012.
Perhaps the 2012 Ford Explorer will be looked back upon unfavorably. It probably went over well with reviewers because it rides like a car now, but they killed the fanbase for the vehicle when the switched it from BOF to a unibody design.
Perhaps in the future, all sporty cars will be AWD, and people will look back on today’s RWD performance cars such as the Mustang, Camaro, Hyundai Genesis coupe, etc. and say, “What were they thinking?”
To provide some food for thought, here’s CR’s top picks for 2012:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/04/top-picks-2012/index.htm
I am ecstatic to say that I strongly disagree with everything CR has chosen!
They’re full of it, a bunch of Marxist liberals, foreign apologists, socialists, Nazis, hedonists, communists, waste-oids, space-cadets, enemy insurgents, radicals, air heads, hippies, Robert Redford-lovers and…well…anything else I can come up with when my ire is up.
…at least where cars are concerned.
I couldn’t have said it better. 🙂
Yup, I tend to revile those with whom I disagree and then I attach labels on them to make the demonetization all the much easier!
I agree with DougD-nothing.
I disagree with BigOldChryslers-I’ll give you ten metaphorical bucks for every soccer mom or dad that even knows what a chassis is, let alone what’s underneath their Ford Exploder. Try using the word “monocoque” in mixed company and you are liable to be brought up on some sort of sexual harassment charge.
+1
Now we know the reason the word `unibody’ was coined by prudish a-holes. What are other cars, multibody?
Hold on, I didn’t say that I believed what I wrote about the Explorer, I put that out there as an example. Sheesh, tough crowd. As you said, most of the people that buy these vehicles from the showroom couldn’t care less about their underpinnings. I was just trying to point out that the discussion is/was getting derailed into the same-old topic of what will be collectible in the future, which isn’t what Ed asked for.
If you want to know my actual opinion about Explorers, “true Explorer fans” are young guys that buy Explorers used and beat the snot out of them until they die. I used to have a neighbor that fit that description, and he said that Explorers are pretty tough to kill. Since these guys are never the first owners, Ford doesn’t care about chasing their business.
BigOldC,
Chill babe, just having fun. Nothing personal.
Most of what will be saved will be sports cars. I don’t think we’ll see many 4 door sedans, even though that’s what most cars are now. It’s possible that some people will be nostalgic for CUVs, just as some are for Station Wagons. I don’t see that happening as my generation (“Y”) hasn’t developed a fondness for the first (84-90) Chrysler Minivan. I would like to have one as my parents had an 87 Voyager when I was little.
Interesting discussion so far, some of it along the same lines I was thinking…
Let me help you out here: a post here on a 1963 Falcon will easily garner several dozen comments. Who would *ever* have thunk in 1963 that a cheap compact car would capture that much interest four decades later. Corvette? Sure. But a *Falcon?*
So what are today’s Falcons, Caprices, Beetles, etc. of the future?
As a parallel to that, the comments about us liking the cars of our youth is spot-on in my book… Sure, I would much rather have had a Chevelle SS, but a Vega is what I was given, and it ended up being a huge part of the fabric of my formative HS and college years… My boys are rolling with a ’98 Grand Caravan and an ’84 Mustang L for comparison.
One last thought – with so much more plastic, electronics and non-user-serviceable components in play today, I seriously doubt we’ll see cars continue to roll 30, 40, 50 years or longer unless JC Whitney steps up to the plate with cheap replacements for those kinds of parts.
Speaking of Beetles, I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the New Beetle yet, so I will be the first. 🙂
The cars that will still be loved will be the ones that hold up the best and the ones that aren’t replaced by cars with similar qualities. I suspect that will mean sports cars like Miata and Corvette, the relatively simple Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ, bulletproof Lexuses and Tacomas, anything Honda powered with their remarkable K-series engines, and the last of the naturally aspirated BMW M3s. Camaros may have the eyes of today’s kids, but they’ve been indoctrinated as soldiers in the war on the middle class. They’ll be walking the alleys of their concentration camps at the age when previous generations collected cars.
Who knows what the 2030’s will look like? There will be cars around from 2010 that had limited use for 20 years, but the survivors will probably be mundane sedans. But as far as collectibles, only stuff like the Challenger, Mustang, Charger, and Camaro will possibly be in that category 20 years from now.
if you look at the past, what had more collectible potential than the Allante? Nice examples can be had for very little. I personally don’t find any new cars all that desirable. For me, honorable mention goes to the Cadillac Deville or DTS, or a Chrysler 300. The Cadillac XLS (roadster) can only go down in value. In showroom condition, in the year 2060, it may be worth what it cost new, unless we get into a hyper inflationary period. If that happens, we’ll pay 100K for a loaf of bread. Nobody will be buying cars.
I can’t envision a 2010 Toyota Camry or Honda Accord exciting anyone in 2030, even as very popular models as they are today.
Ironically, today I see far more people getting excited about their 1992 Accords and Camrys than I do over their 1992 Mustangs and Camaros.
Anything moderately sporty with a third pedal.
In this era of turbos, direct injection, and shrinking engines, I’m tempted to say cars with big ass naturally aspirated v8s. Then I think about all those huge engines from the 70’s that made less than 200 hp and how ridiculous they look today. Maybe we’ll have a similar effect in 20 years.
Taking these two together I’d say something like the last gen m5… although any m car is probably inherently collectible.
PG, you have GOT to get a suitable avatar to go with that awesome screen name – tasteful, of course!
Zackman (or anyone) how do you upload an avatar?
John,
Our local avatar plug-in appears to be munged at the moment (just tried it and the pic upload isn’t working right), but if you want, you can create a globally recognized avatar at gravatar.com , which will be recognized here and at most other blogs “automagically.”
UPDATE – it’s fixed now. To set your own avatar which will be local to this site only, just log in (https://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-login.php) with your username and password, and click the Manage button in the avatar box and follow the directions.
Thanks Ed, I don’t think I had actually registered before, and was just commenting by filling in the reply fields on the posts (which remember your details)
Why limit it to being tasteful? Tasteful, last time I checked, isn’t within my lexicon.
Best-of 2012 that is a tough one. If I look back at 1990 and think about best in terms of still high interest and resale value/ability to keep it on the road/hot-rod-ability I think of first generation 4runner (ended in 1988), honda civic, toyota corolla, 5.0 mustang
by that measure I think in 2012 its: camaro/challenger/mustang–I think that the V8s will be cherished but out of the reach of most, so many will hop up V6s, tacoma 4×4/prerunner, scion FRS (they will be the 55 chevy of 2030), genesis coupe, miata, scion TC, and here is an odd one Dodge Nitro–will be the last of the domestic rear drive small SUVs, easy to hot rod and fun to drive and a retro style boxy body in a manageable size
I’d suggest the Ford Flex. A polarizing design for sure but from the stand point of practicality, quality, value and rarity I think it’s a contender.
First gen Xb, of course.
Toyota Prius C
Prewar cars were just old junk for the poor or cheap, until the late ’50s or ’60s or so. Who bothered trying to restore an unmodded Model A before then?
In the early ’80s almost everyone traded in their V8 gas guzzlers, until they were rare enough to seem special. When we pulled into the high school lot in ’89 in a ’74 Cutlass it was the ONLY car there that was close to the size norm of only 10 years earlier.
In both cases there was a kind of “extinction event” – WWII and the oil crisis – that killed off a generation of cars early, which made survivors seem special. Extreme old age can do the same thing – here I’m referring to the Falcon et al. A car from 40 years ago is special in a way that an ’82 or ’92 Escort is not.
So, my answer to Ed’s question is shaped by my expectation that gas will cost $10+ a gallon well before we get to 2032. Daily driving a sub-20 mpg vehicle is only going to get more difficult for the majority of Americans, so most of them will be gone by then.
Will the remaining dinosaurs be collectible? No, just as most 70s cars are basically worthless today, no matter how much I kid myself (ahem). But if Joe Shmo of the Future sees a ’12 Charger – even a non-SRT base model that enthusiasts don’t care about – he might yell out, “Nice cah, buddy!” And its owner will come to CC to feel the love of other antiquarians. 🙂
That is exactly the scenario I receive with my 76 Royal Monaco. Basically worthless, it never fails to get attention every time I get gas. Someone will inquire, and proceed to tell me what he would do if it was his, etc.
As you said, I feel almost as good after talking to someone as if I’d be driving a Packard or other “real” antique.
73ImpCapn: Good point about the “mass extinction events”.
In my neck of the woods at least, there was one of these events about 10 years ago, albeit not to the extent of WWII nor the energy crisis. Steel prices shot-up, and it became profitable for scrap guys to drive around to visit farmers and anybody with a piece of “yard art” and ask them if they’d like their old cars removed from their property.
At about the same time, there was a housing boom in which the suburbs expanded into area that used to be rural where people had a lot of project cars. The cars went to the crusher, the old houses were demolished, and townhouses started going up.
Then more recently were the cash-for-clunkers incentive programs of course. My brother even took one of his beaters to the wreckers and got some government-subsidized cash for it.
Over the last 20-plus years, when my bride has asked me what I think will happen in one scenario or another, I tell her I have no idea. Twenty years ago, I wouldn’t have predicted the Taurus would still be around — a car whose design I have never liked.
Similarly, I can’t begin to forecast with any authority (I wouldn’t be surprised if every poster on this site knows much more about cars, car design and car innards than I) which cars made today will have staying power that far into the future. My guess, though, is that, the Curbside Classics of tomorrow will largely have foreign nameplates. That’s because U.S. car manufacturers have a tradition — at least since the 1970s — of being reactive and not proactive. Innovation isn’t the forte of U.S. carmakers. In fact, I’d go so far as to question their instinct for survival.
I guess my top three would be one from each continent:
Asia: Subaru BRZ. I saw one of these in the metal, and it’s a sharp little coupe. Yes I know the Scion is nearly the same, but I think the Subaru nameplate has more equity in it. We’ll see…
Europe: VW Beetle. This one is pretty obvious. While there are folks here on CC who know and love the original VW, I think there are kids just starting to drive who may be getting late ’90s New Beetles as their first car. Talk about retro de ja vu!
USA: Cadillac XTS. I have always loved Cadillacs, but the last 10-15 years have been tough. The 2008 CTS was very attractive, but I think the new XTS looks even better – the 2013 Fleetwood Brougham.
Maybe it’s my age (I was born in the mid 80’s), but contrary to the opinions of many so far, I actually like today’s direction in automotive design. Much more imaginative than just 15, 20 years ago.
I think the main reason for this is that stylists have a lot to work against. Today’s cars have such odd proportions, due not only to the safety restrictions of the day (something that always screws around with car design, like the 5mph bumpers in the 70’s), but also to the changes in what people want out of their cars. Car shoppers have the internet and Consumer Reports charts and comparisons, where they can see that the 2013 Hyundai Elantra has 55.9 inches of front shoulder room, whereas the 2013 Ford Focus only has 55.6 inches. So you have to have the biggest interior possible with the smallest exterior possible. Companies like Hyundai (so much like the Japanese in the 70’s and 80’s) are pushing the envelope of interior efficiency, so the rest of the industry has to keep up in the meaningless numbers department to stay competitive.
This, along with the European pedestrian safety laws which push the hoodline up, and the design trend of high beltlines looking cool (just delayed backlash from the greenhouse-happy 80’s), and a few other reasons (drivers today like to sit up tall because they’ve been spoiled by the view from SUVs, etc.) all add up to very wonky proportions. Cars look smushed horizontally, and vertically they’re way too tall. This is especially a problem in compact cars, because people today want their economy compacts to look, drive, and feel like big luxurious cars.
Proportion is everything in design, and with all of these problematic hard-points, stylists have been saddled with a tough task, to “fix” it. I think they’ve been doing a decent job, all things considered.
Take “Flame surfacing,” for instance, named for Chris Bangle’s description of his own polarizing E60 5 Series (look at those flaming headlights!), though I’d argue (and I think you guys would agree) that Virgil Exner Sr. was the most distinctive proponent. Designers have pushed out sharp, expressive lines and curves on the side surfaces of their cars lately, which distract the eye from the weird proportions and suggest their own. The 2012 Ford Focus has all kinds of stuff going on on its doors and fenders, which helps to hide the fact that the Focus three-box sedan is all second-box, with the trunk and hood being almost taller than they are long.
Another area of design weirdness is the roof. Car roofs have been pushed back and up to clear the heads of rear passengers. So designers have turned to the “four-door coupe” fastback approach for sedans. C-pillars have almost disappeared, and roofs just flow down into the visually tiny trunk. This not only looks sleek and sporty, it actually tricks the eye into seeing the car as longer and lower than it really is. This is a lot like the way long, ruler-straight chrome trim on the sides of early 60’s cars stretched them out visually. (Like they weren’t long enough to begin with.)
Just take a look at the hood of a 2012 car and you’ll start to see all the work that went into making it look lower and wider than it really is. So many lines and humps and bulges!
I agree a lot of recent economy cars are a little loud and garish in design. But they kinda have to be, or else everything would end up looking like an xB (Sorry, Paul.) Its design is pure and honest, and never meant to be sporty, but I mean, dang. That thing is homely.
Holy crap that got long. My bad. Maybe I should just make it an article instead.
It’s an interesting line of thought, Drew. Cars with quirky styling (see the DeSoto Adventurer post, for example) often show up as CCs here, so maybe some of today’s polarizing quirky designs will be what sticks with today’s generation, to be fondly memorialized on whatever the interwebs turn into in a few decades.
First comment here at CC, because I really really really despise today’s direction in automotive design. It is a key element that drove me away from this hobby and enthusiasm. Dear mister Drew touched a very raw nerve in my inner car nerd. 😛
To me at least 50-70% of new cars on the road today did not manage to successfully mitigate the visual embarassment of their ungainly proportions. Designers often fail to trick the eyes…at least mine tend to see straight past the visual trickery and rest on how unpretty the proportions have become.
Bangle? Just a guy with a girl band named after him. Pffft.
You’re not the only one who thinks the Xb is homely! And from some angles, it is, which I have no delusions about; fits in with my going-against-the-grain personality.
I understand the point you’re making, and I sort-of-somewhat agree with you, up to a point. But it gets taken way too far, in a desperate attempt to make cars look somehow edgy or interesting; like the rear end of a Kia Seoul, compared to the Xb. The Seoul’s tail just looks contrived, for its own sake, not for the pursuit of good design.
Having said that, some modern cars look good: the Kia Optima being a good example of one.
I definitely agree that some cars today seem to be by designers who are a bit too young, and trying a bit too hard. Or maybe they’ve been raised looking at too many ridiculous Hotwheels cars. Along with the Soul, I’d put the Juke up there. Hideous!
And I think the Optima is the best looking mainstream-priced car for sale today. Peter Schreyer knocked that design out of the park in my opinion.
And don’t get me wrong, I love the xB, brilliant utility vehicle. Took a road trip down to Florida from Indiana in one, with two other tall guys and a house worth of items (minus the bed and couch). That drive gave me the impression that it’s bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.
Sitting up tall in a luxurious car with a sloping aero-roof merging into the boot, high beltlines with small glass area to stop the hot sunrays from getting in, high bonnet that you can see from inside the car, aero-dynamic to the max, large, comfortable seats with great structural rigidity…
Sounds like a throwback to thirties design ethic to me! Cars today more and more re-gaining the proportions of thirties and early forties cars. As my formative epiphany car was a Buick Roadmaster (look, not ride), I can say Thank Heavens! I really like the way modern cars are shaping up. No thanks to the schmucks at BMW.