(first posted 3/26/2016) Previously we’ve looked at several products produced by the innovative transportation company based in Loudonville Ohio – the Flxible Corporation (Clipper here, New Look here). Now let’s review one of the company’s final buses – the 870/Metro.
First a little history – while government regulation and oversight had long been part of public transportation operations in the US, that role increased in the mid-1960s with passage of the Urban Mass Transportation Assistance Act of 1964. With that Act, the federal government significantly increased funding, through grants, to public transportation operators to purchase new equipment. Broadening their role in the early ‘70s, the Department of Transportation launched an initiative to incorporate updated safety and accessibility requirements in a new, revolutionary bus – thus was born the “Transbus Program.”
GM Rohr/Flxible AM General
All three major US bus manufacturers submitted proposals for this new coach. The Transbus effort really requires a separate post, but suffice it to say that these new buses were prohibitively expensive, and some of the technology was less than mature. By 1976, the government decided to “dial back” and take a more evolutionary step in bus modernization – with the “Advanced Design Bus.”
More proposals were solicited and two manufacturers entered submissions (GM and Rohr/Flxible, with AM General deciding to exit the bus market). As most know, “Buy US” restrictions prohibited overseas manufacturers from participating.
GM fielded the RTS.
Rohr/Flxible the 870.
The 870 incorporated several significant upgrades over the older “New Look” coach. It was lower, and had a wheel chair lift; one of the accessibility goals of the Transbus Program. It was also easier to manufacture and was lighter in weight, increasing fuel mileage.
Cummins L10 30 ft Coach
35 ft 40 ft
Sizes were typical; 30, 35 or 40 ft in length, 96 or 102 in wide. Powertrains were GM 6/8V 71 and 6/8V 92 in later models, and Cummins L10 and C8.3 engines, with Voith, ZF and Allison transmissions.
In Jan 1978, Rohr sold Flxible to Grumman, the defense contractor, and the bus was now known as the Grumman 870. The New York City Transit Authority placed a large order (851) and in 1980, 870’s began running on New York streets – and shortly thereafter problems started occurring…here’s a short timeline;
– June 1980: Buses start arriving.
– November 1980: Structural flaws (cracks) are found in undercarriage assemblies.
– Dec. 1, 1980: The engine and transmission of a bus drops out while in passenger service.
– Dec. 13, 1980: All Flxibles are taken out of service.
– January 1981: Grumman agrees to correct defects by reinforcing A-frames and engine cradles.
Bronx River Parkway
In an effort to save weight (one of the design goals), the “A-Frame” that carried the rear axle assembly wasn’t as strong as in older buses, and under the constant pounding of New York’s pot-holed streets, cracks started to develop.
Grumman initially argued that improper maintenance by NY Metro caused the problem. But then buses in LA, Atlanta, Chicago and Houston started exhibiting similar frame cracks. The issue received widespread media coverage and as with most of these types of situations, many lawyers and courtrooms were involved – but ultimately by 1983, Grumman was forced to take all 870’s in-use nation-wide out of service and substantially reinforce the frames. A total 2656 buses were repaired at a final cost of over $7 million.
There are two common misconceptions associated with this A-frame problem. First, it is assumed that the resulting “bad press” ruined the bus’ reputation and sales plunged. While that was true initially, Grumman beefed up the A-frame and tested it thoroughly. They then renamed the 870 the “Flxible Metro” and re-marketed it. It won many large orders and remained in production until the company folded in 1996 (New York even re-ordered some in 1995). There were 4,532 early 870 models produced, but 9,814 improved Metro versions – so it’s clear the bus continued to sell well even after the A-frame debacle. Second misconception – costs associated with fixing the frames and from various lawsuits forced the company into bankruptcy. Again not accurate – though Grumman decided to sell Flxible to the General Automotive Corporation in 1983 (for a 25% loss), as mentioned above, the Metro continued to find buyers and the company continued to successfully operate for another 13 years. According to one Flxible executive, General Auto was poorly managed and the various divisions other than Flxible routinely lost money. Flxible’s profits were siphoned off to these other units until the whole company collapsed in 1995.
So while it started out with a bad stumble, the 870/Metro went on to be fairly successful. How successful? If you rode a bus anywhere in the US in the 80’s and 90’s (and in some locations even today), you likely rode in an 870/Metro.
But unfortunately the end result of this story is another US bus manufacturer, one with a long, storied history, being forced out of business, not necessarily due to a bad product, but bad management. In the late 70’s-early 80’s a similar situation was occurring over at GM – we’ll look at that in our next post focusing on the Rapid Transit Series (RTS) coach.
Love the bus articles. Here NCTD, North County Transit District located in northern San Diego County ran all sorts of other equipment. As a kid in the mid 70’s they had these little box jobs of unknown make with 1160 Cat power then they tried Mercedes units. I remember these things wheezing by trailing a cloud of stinky black smoke struggling up a small hill as we walked home from school. They were rather oil leakers too. Terrible short lived units. After that in the early ’80s we actually got some GM units that served well for many years. Gilligs and New Flyers replaced them, the Flyers were powered by a 4 cyl version of the series 60 Detroit Diesel. Today they seem to stick with the Flyers, I don’t know what powerplant though. Gillig made a school bus version of the transit unit in the late 80’s to jump into the premium school bus marked that was vacated with the passing of Crown Coach. Cat 3208T or Detroit 6V92 available.
What you said about the Mercedes-Benz buses rings true to me. My hometown in Virginia had a dalliance with 309 diesel buses in the late ’70s. They came; they smoked; they died in a fruit-fly’s life cycle. I remember when they were introduced, with smiling suns painted on their sides and news stories on TV and in the paper about how progressive and responsible we were being by buying tiny diesel buses. Back lots at service stations were still littered with their carcasses as recently as about 1990, but I haven’t seen one move under its own power since Jimmy Carter was in office. We replaced them with Blue-Birds, which I don’t think have been discussed here.
Thanks Looking forward to the Transbus article too. Hope it comes soon.
Grumman was nicknamed the “Iron Works” by pilots during WW2 because their [aluminum] aircraft could absorb so much punishment. By nature, carrier planes must be this way, but most other American combat planes of that era were overbuilt as well; the ones that were optimized for weight, like the P51-H & Grumman’s own F8F Bearcat, had outstanding performance.
Grumman also built aluminum fishing boats, the Lunar Excursion Module, & the popular Ag Cat cropduster.
The bus system here in Spokane bought a lot of those 870s in 1992. They were still going strong 20 years later when they switched to low-floor Gilligs to meet ADA requirements. A few are still in storage, pulled into temp service when newer buses fail.
The agency bought a bunch of GM RTS types around the same time, but they were a complete failure. Electrical systems burned up almost daily, and the wheelchair ramps never worked until the agency’s mechanics redesigned and rebuilt them.
I was working in manhattan when they took these buses off the road . The city borrowed new look washington d c buses , odd to see these on the streets of n y c
So that’s where they all went! I lived in suburban Maryland at the time which was served by DC’s Metrobus, whose fleet at the time were mostly GM or Flxible new look buses, but suddenly all I was seeing were the AM General ’70s buses which were quite different in appearance – tall, broad windows with non-slanted pillars. We then got some GM RTS buses which seemed to mostly be gone five years later. I really have no idea what they use now, I rarely ride the bus anymore and never really followed the bus industry; I don’t even know who the current players are. The big 3 of my youth – GM, Flxible, and AM General (then part of AMC) are obviously either gone or have left the bus business.
We had a similar situation around here where there was some major problem that developed with school buses resulting in them being pulled from service, and for awhile there were all these ancient 1950s-looking school buses that normally were kept out of sight in storage as emergency spares suddenly reappearing on roads for a few months while repairs were made.
i remember that time. I was a student and lived near the Ulmer Park Depot which had Grumman 870 assigned to them. When they were were first pulled, RTS buses from FLA were our savior. And again in 1984 when finally pulled. They are missed.
We both belong to that Facebook Group Page – Model Bus Fans where Awesome Diecast/Iconic Replicas will be releasing a 1:87 Scale Grumman Flxible 870 New York City Transit Authority by the early Summer of 2022.
Rohr sold Flxible to Grumman just before the 870 went on sale, and supposedly claimed that the 870 had been fully tested and was ready to go on sale. Such was not the case. According to people I know that were in public transit at the time, neither the 870/Metro or the RTS II was as reliable as the old GM New Look, or V-drive equipped Flxible New Looks. The RTS II was a heavier and more substantial coach than the Metro. GM turned RTS II production over to MCI in 1987 (later NovaBus bought the design) and I don’t think the quality was ever as good as it was when they were produced in Pontiac.
Here in Bakersfield, the Golden Empire Transit district operates mostly 40 foot New Flyer natural gas low floor buses (C40LF/LFR and XN40) from 2005-14 along with some Orion VII CNG low floor buses from 2002-3. In years past, GET operated 35 foot Flxible New looks and AM Generals from the 1970s, Gillig Phantoms from the 1980s along with Orion I and V models from the 90s. The Orion V’s were GET’s first CNG buses. The SunTran bus system in Tucson mostly operates Gillig low floor buses, both CNG and diesel. SunTran used to operate the GM RTS along with Neoplan AN440 buses back in the 80s and 90s.
When I was a teenager in the 80’s I rode the local buses all around Portland, Or, and I remember these extremely well. They had rattly windows and cheap, nasty seats. I always hoped for an older bus to come because the old model GMC’s were much nicer and smoother to ride in, and felt way more solid. Better seats too.
I haven’t ridden transit buses on any kind of regular basis since the early & mid 1960’s. The small town (pop. 20,000) where I grew up had four bus lines that radiated out from and back to the downtown. As it happened one of the routes came within a half block of our house so it was convenient for me to use to go downtown to the public library, etc. The buses were essentially school bus bodies modified for transit duty; naturally they all had rattly windows and cheap, nasty seats. As soon as my friends and I obtained drivers’ licenses our bus days were over.
RTD/ Metro in LA use to run these! They are very memorable, especially when it was equipped with the Cummins L10 and Voith 863 transmission. They made most unique deep sounds and the always unique transition sound from first to second gear, they also made this wind down sound when it came to a stop. Also remember them rattling like heck and always leaned a lot on turns!
I was an insurance appraiser/adjuster for about a decade, and had several opportunities to examine collision-damaged units operated by what was then called Bi-State Development in St. Louis. All of the Gilligs that I ever saw had Recaro driver’s seats with multi-colored cloth upholstery, like something out of a late-70s, early 80s Ford Mustang. I was surprised to see such a high-end automotive seat, I was expecting more like an air-ride seat out of a heavy highway tractor.
I haven’t actually ridden a city bus since the EARLY 80s when I took the 33 route from Western Hills Plaza to the downtown Cincinnati library.
Being in school in NJ when the MTA frame cracking story broke, I was kind of surprised that NJ Transit’s large fleet of these didn’t have similar problems – it’s not like the streets of Newark and Trenton were in fine shape back then. But maybe i missed it. They definitely survived in NJ Transit service far longer than in the City. These days we have very low and angular LNG and diesel business, although you do see a few RTSs in service.
My weirdest Flixilble 870 sighting came when I moved to Beijing in 2001, and there were a number of them running around in Beijing’s Taco-truck like livery of Red, Green and Yellow. Guess that’s where the tooling went…
The Chinese Flxibles were a joint venture between GAC and Changzhou Changjiang Bus from 1994 to 2001. Only the front clip really resembled a US Flxible, though; the bodies were completely different.
It too bad Flxible never got a chance to lunch their low floor design.
I worked at ROHR and actually wired up the engine compartment of the High Value bus prototype.
Beside the known engine cradle structure problem, Grumman buses in New York City Transit Authority also had floor issue. In NYCTA those buses came with composite floor. Shortly after they were in service, their floors started bubbling up and eventually melted away because of leaking power steering fluid eating them away. TA then president decided to get rid of all them in 80s, kept the old New Look buses until mid90s. I don’t think NYCTA had ever purchased Flxible buses, there was only talk but eventually TA choose Orion buses from Canada when the original GM RTS owner had constantly been in financial troubles. New York City DoT which operated a fleet of privately owned buses had few Grumman buses until they were replaced with RTS and Orion in late 90s.