When I took this photo, I was struck by how the juxtaposition reminded me of the classic evolution-of-man image. It is interesting that a 60 year old shape (and counting) could sit so comfortably between these two modern examples, appearing almost as a missing link. Just like the word ‘unchronological’, there’s something illogical about this succession that still seems to make sense.
At first I thought 60-year-old shape? The 911 is only 54, what’s he talking about? Then I noticed the Citroen 🙂
Though that is the ‘1968’ version of the DS with faired in (and steering!) headlights. Still very striking. Also notable how long the wheelbase is and how short the rear overhang. Those in the rear seats sit quite forward of the rear axle.
Nice. One thing that strikes me is how the old Citroen has no rocker panels, while the modern VW and Porsche still do. Doors all the way down make the shape look more integrated to my eye. Sharply defined rocker panels between the wheels looks like a cart, with the body sitting on it. Why do rocker panels survive?
Try opening the door of a DS lowered on its suspension, parked next to a high curb, and you’ll find out.
Hmm…right you are. How could I forget, we are Curbside after all!
Interesting point. The current generation RAV4 has no rocker panels but sits tall enough for the doors to clear any curb.
Often they’re aligned with ‘lightcatchers’ though those are regularly further up the door panel these days.
Cars these days have to carry more metalwork between the silly and the shoulder and a straight panel looks plain. Lightcatchers break this up.
Rocker panels are part of the car’s structure. The Citroen is quite unusual in many ways, but one is that it has an inner structure from which external panels are hung.
I never saw it before now!
But compare the shape of the Porsche 901/911 to/with the shape of the Citroën DS19.
The beltline, the hood/bonnet, the headlights, the windshield…?
I think it’s both the Citroen and the 911 are ancient shapes that manage to remain remarkably current due to their excellent designs.
I’m struck by how tiny the Citroen looks. That’s a VW Polo behind it. In its day, the Citroen was a large car, about as big as they got back then in Europe, except for a few super-expensive sedans. Even the 911 looks huge, almost as long as the DS.
I’ll bet the Citroen has gobs more space inside than the VW. The rear wheels being so far extended back look a bit odd but I kinda like the overall design. Never ridden in one of these things but from everything I’ve read/heard these Citroens have an amazing cloud-like ride.
The wheels look especially tiny. I stared at the pic for a while, trying to see if the DS might be further away..
And the new 2018 Polo manages to be even bigger than the one in the pic. About as long as an MK4 Golf…
Looking at this on a phone, I just assumed that was a Golf, because Polos are small cars…
I noticed that too but think it’s an optical effect of the camera.
I looked up the lengths:
Citroen DS 4826mm (Saloon)
Porsche 997 series 4461mm
VW Polo Mk7 series 3972mm
So the Polo is about 3 feet shorter than the Citroen and the Citroen is about 14-15″ longer than the Porsche. Sure doesn’t look like it in the photo…
Agreed. In the photo the front width of the Polo is included in the image, and the rear width of the Porsche, whereas it is just the profile of the Citroen that we can see. So both modern cars seem longer.
Having said that the Citroen still seems small.
Actually, both the 911 and Polo are substantially shorter as measured on the picture. It’s their massing that makes them appear so relatively large, whereas the pointy nose on the DS almost disappears.
Paul, the reason why the modern Porsche 911 looks huge compared to the DS is simple. It is huge. The current 911 has been supersized to the size of the 928 but dressed in 911 clothing, in effect a rear engined 928. See the comparison. The older 911’s are diminutive compared to the modern versions.
Yes, I’m aware of that.
You says it, there was a beautiful DS 21 ahead of me on the autobahn and it struck me as well: Was this the car I drove with 160 k/ph in the pooring rain as a kid ?
On the other hand, it strikes me how hughe a 911 Porsche has become, I owned two 911’s one from 77 one from 84 but you can park those inside a 997.
And I once saw a 997 with the frontbumper removed, you don’t want to know the circus of coolers and radiators fitted in the front of the car.
I remember everybody swearing at how difficult is was to work on a DS, a 204 Peugeot or a GS Citroen, today these cars are more friendly to work on then any modern Toyota or Opel product.
I was driving a new DS-21 Pallas in 1968, Burgundy with white roof and Bordello red velour interior. If you have not experienced one of these, move it to the top of the bucket list. I plan on having another that once acquired will be passed on to my son. These cars are still advanced now. The only suggestion for the first drive, allow time to pull over until you stop laughing and can drive safely. Once used to the car I found I could coax the Citromatic trans through the gears to 60 in 10 seconds and after a 20 mile buildup could reach 120+ mph, it helps to lower the suspension. The Citroen is the ONLY car I ever recovered in a slide after the rear had passed, and was nearly in front. The ride, even driving fast on a switchback road is so comfortable you can maintain a high speed safely. A word of warning, do not rock the steering wheel side to side for long, it’s the only car I made myself sea-sick in. The size can be misleading, parked alone the car shrinks, among other cars it can both shrink or grow, depending on the other cars style, parked alongside cars it’s true length becomes evident. Inside the amount of room is very comfortable for 4-5 people, and with front seat backs lowered one of the most comfortable beds on the planet. The SM is a wonderful car also, but prior experience with Maserati keeps me at a distance, although the DS would benefit from more power. I also had 2CV'[s which are insane for other reasons, but any Citroen will add to your spirit. I’ve also driven Rolls-Royce’s with partial citroen suspension which were truely terrifying on the soft setting.. I didn’t know a car could lean so far and not roll over, the Citroens never did that.
This is a newer 911. The original 911 is quite small.
Old Citroëns (2CV, DS19) are “body parts” /thick shutlines, and a “shape”: Doors, fenders, hood, trunklid, roof.
Both the (old) 911 and the DS19 have a “dropping line” (like new Mercedes-Benz), as opposed to a wedge line.
Looking at the DS19s at the Lane Museum with their single headlights at the ends of the fenders with the sloping bonnet between I was thinking they looked a bit like the 911.
I kind of agree. And this is accentuated by the Citroen’s lack of grille. If one had never seen a DS and knew nothing of Citroen, it could look like it had a rear engine.
First thought is how small the Citroen appears, in length and height. But actually, the Polo and 911 are perhaps too big.
I know which I’d like to take home!
Despite the very advanced technology and real-world competence of the DS series, I have never warmed up to their appearance.
Drive one awhile, then you might, I sometimes referred to mine as “The Happy Clam”, go on one knee, as though proposing to the car, and look at the front, It’s smiling and looks like a big happy clam. I fell in love.
How about that one?
. . . or that one?
Nice. Very weird, but nice — both of them.
But then someone did do a 4-door Porsche 911 back in the day. Also weird.
Tatra87,
here is the Road & Track link to the 1968 article describing the “one-off” custom 911S 4 door built in the mid-late 1960’s (1967-1968) by Troutman and Barnes.
enjoy,
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a26140/the-strange-and-wonderful-tale-of-the-4-door-porsche-911/
Yr Evr Lyl & Fthfl Srvnt, Geelong Vic
This might get me laughed off the stage, but I’ve long seen some commonality between the side-on view of the Citroën ID/DS greenhouse and that of the ’60-’62 Valiant/Lancer/Rebel. First noticed it when I was about 15 or so, and while I spend more time looking at the Mopars, every time I see one of the Citroëns, the similarity reasserts itself to me.
What is this Rebel you speak of?
The DeSoto-badged South African one, I guess:
As tatra87 said: the ’61-’63 RSA-market DeSoto Rebel, a rebadged Dodge Lancer with the same RHD ’61 Valiant dashboard as the first two Australian Valiant models.
In 1962 the DeSoto there became Dart size.
You’re probably thinking of the DeSoto Diplomat, an export-version B-body. Not the same as the DeSoto Rebel, which was sold from ’61 to ’63 in South Africa.
Conclusion: Citroen DS looks modern even today.
I always wanted that 911 four-door to exist. Someone really built that, didn’t they — no Photoshop work there.
Most interesting observation, Daniel. The comparison to the Valiant/Dart is especially close at the A pillar, and with the presence of flat glass on a similarly-sculpted midsection ?
One way to see the trio above is that the Golf sweeps backward, the Citroen is neutral in that regard, and the Porsche leans forward, if we take the fastback to be its dominant expression — in this view.
And that brings up the order, and the relative sizes, of the vehicles in the photo. It is clear that all three cars are close in length, in the photo; when I blow it up, the VW is 1 3/4″ long on my screen, the DS and the Porsche are both 1 7/8″ in length. If I measure only the side of the car, and not the front portion of the VW or the rear of the Porsche, the lengths correspond closely to the actual car lengths quoted by Jim Klein.
Not Valiant/Dart—that would be the ’63-up cars. I mean the ’60-’62 Valiant/Lancer/Rebel like this one and this one and this one (which is mine).
Given the 62-year-old DS and the 54-year-old 911, I believe it’s that little sh**box on the left which is out of place.
“54-year old 911” Sorry, but this more recent vehicle now also called 911 has absolutely nothing in common with the original 911, so it’s hardly 54 years old.
Sorry — I misspoke, Daniel. Yours is the car I was thinking of. Funny — the windshields of both cars have their upper corners dog-eared in a similar way . . .
My thought, Don, is that those buildings behind are unchronological, as well as as unthought, undesigned, unpsent, unhistorical, uncontextual, uncompetent, unartful, and un-bloody-wanted. Maximum-profit developer shite, sold to stupid (or outright corrupt) politicians as inventive re-uses of inner sites to curb Melbourne’s urban sprawl. My arse it is.
Oh! The cars? Well…anyone notice how the idiot developer has let a blob of red paint fall on the Polo’s mirror? Typical of these cowboys.
Alright, alright, yes, it is time for me have a little snooze.
I’ll try dream of the wondrous DS.
In a background of French summer countryside….
Had a vision of everyone on the plant driving a DS, The car is serious about what it does, but provides such wondrous smiles and can explode into total hilarity, if everyone drove one, Possibly a percfect world?
I thought the setting looked familiar, drove past this spot yesterday! I saw another DS several months ago within a quarter mile of this photo.