I’m not sure what will have appeared in the comments in response to JPC’s Outtake of a 1972 Ford taxi in NYC, but since I previewed it ahead of time, I got the chance to answer it with some hard proof, in the form of vintage shots from NYC from 1972. And there’s not a single Ford to be seen anywhere.
And why did I spend the time Googling for these? I had a reason: Bias confirmation.
I spent six weeks in Manhattan in 1973, performing in a experimental theater troupe in the Village. That gave me all day to wander the streets of the city, and take note of the taxi rolling stock. A dwindling number of Checkers; gobs of Mopars, mostly mid-sized and some big ones.; and a fair number of big Chevys. Fords? Not one. I thought that perhaps my memory might have been tainted by my well-known…um…bias regarding the ’71-’72 Fords. But these pictures tend to confirm my bias. Not one ’71-’72 Ford to be seen.
But! things apparently changed starting in 1973.
The first indication was that my “1972 New York taxis” Google image search included this shot from the movie “Taxi Driver”, as posted by imbd.com. That movie was released in 1976, so probably shot in 1975 or so. And it includes this ’73 Ford. Was it a real NYC taxi? Sure looks like one.
Broadening my search to “New York taxis 1970s” brought up a couple of other shots with 1973-1975 big Fords, including this one with its hood partially open.
This looks to be a ’75.
And then there’s this shot from 1971: Lookie there! Two big Fords, from the ’69-’70MY era.
So here’s my argument that the ’72 Ford in JPC’s post does not represent a genuine NYC taxi from its era, as New York taxi companies had apparently tumbled to the same thing I did back at the time: ’71 and ’72 big Fords suck. Well; that’s saying it a bit harshly, but you get my drift/joke.
Now if anyone can find a vintage shot of a ’71 or ’72 NYC Ford taxi, I’ll gladly take it all back.
I rode in the back of a classmate’s brand new 69 Dodge Coronet sedan, and while you see them used in “period” TV shows and movies as taxis and police cars (one of the pictures here is of a few 1970 Coronet taxis), for anyone over 5ft tall to have to ride any distance is borderline torture.
You got a problem buddy? You don’t like my cab? You wanna get out here and wait for another one? Go on – but don’t forget the $11.75 already on the meter. Geez you people.
Like someone else mentioned on the other post, there’s no way a taxi company would pay for a hardtop with whitewall tires and full wheel covers and put that into daily service. There was a reason why all of the taxis you ever saw were post sedans with dog dishes…
I remember NYC cabs being driven with the hood popped halfway. I don’t know if they had a propensity to overheat, but driving with the hood like that was thought to give the engine more air for cooling.
That was the theory. I don’t think there was much (any) merit to it, given the actual air path through the radiator was unchanged and not augmented by opening the hood. But a whole lot of NY cabbies did it, right up through the end of the box Caprice and Crown Vic.
Brightly colored Prius cabs blend right in with L.A. traffic, but the idea of riding in a Prius cab in N.Y.C. is downright unthinkable! “Listen, Mac, it ain’t as roomy as a Supoiba, but it really scoots in and outta traffic!”
I bet you’d have a hard time finding a cab driver who speaks the way they do in 40s movies. Most have English as, at best, a second language. And just for the record, Priuses are very easy to enter and exit, especially the station wagon version — much easier than a Ford Escape or this new “taxi of tomorrow” Nissan taxi that’s supposed to take over the streets.
I still feel like everything Nissan did with the NV200 after Bloomberg left office was somehow cheating. No Taxi of Tomorrow, no cargo vans, no GM OEM deal. Just, an extra-dorky-looking family minivan with only two rows of seats that nine people in Eugene will buy.
Drove a 71 Ford CS wagon for flower delivery in 72 – 73… ate valves like a gorilla goes through bananas – transition to unleaded gas was the theory…
In the 70’s, we had a standing order from Broadway Cab in Portland for any 4-Door Mopar with 4 doors and a 318 V8 that came in trade to any of our dealerships. The preferred model was a Satellite, but a Valiant or Full-Size worked too. This went on for years until the Impala 9C1 replaced the Mopars as the cab of choice.
if you Google for pictures of ‘New York taxis 1980s” it’s a sea of unbroken Chevys.
Mopars may have had poor body integrity and ride compared to Fords and Chevy’s due to their unitized chassis, but the engines and Torqueflight transmissions are bulletproof
Big Fords became major-league rusters beginning with the 1969 MY. Perhaps cars showing rust blisters after 2 years put people off of them when the 71s were new?
I could see some 71-72 Fords sneaking into cab fleets in smaller cities. Do I recall reading that to be eligible for taxi duty in NYC a car had to receive some kind of certification by the transportation authority? Perhaps there was something about the 71-72 model that made it flunk the test. It could not possibly have been trunk room.
Perhaps there was something about the 71-72 model that made it flunk the test
Maybe they test drove it over a badly pot-holed street, and the front end flex scared them?
Seriously, it is a bit of a mystery as to why these two model year Fords sat out the NYC taxi business. Or not. 🙂
Here’s a screenshot from Forrest Gump, meant to be around 1972 or so.
Also, here a stock footagescreenshot from the American version of the tv series Life on Mars, a bit anachronistic with the 1975 Dodge Coronet but there a cameo of a 1971-72 Ford Custon 500.
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_203329-Dodge-Coronet-1975.html
Don’t know if this bears on today’s tale, Paul–but an interesting find (Sept. 1973 NY Times):
Conclusion:
Aha—Nov. 1972, Ford not making the grade (last paragraph). I’d forgotten about the whole approval/certification thing:
Interesting. Here’s an ad for the Nova taxi.
IIRC, the 73 Nova taxi package kept the vent windows.
Good eyes! I hadn’t noticed that. I looked at ’73 and ’74 brochures online, and it appears that non-taxi Novas didn’t offer vent windows even as an option.
That would explain it if it also applied to the ’71-’72s, but this is in November 1972, meaning it applies to the new 1973s, which actually did start showing up in the taxi fleet. So it creates more confusion.
If this was from November 1970, it would perfectly explain the mssing ’71-’72 Fords from the taxi fleet.
Paul, I realized the didn’t fully answer things about the Ford’s absence; I couldn’t find anything in the 1971-72 papers about it, and I’d love to know more about the Commission and its standards.
Meanwhile, below a tiny bit more from the Nova article, concerning both its configuration and also how long NYC cabs lasted back then.
[BTW, if younger CC-ers have heard about how rough Times Square and environs looked in the 1970s, I can also testify/confirm.]
That is interesting, it certainly sounds like GM did a batch of stretch Novas and was looking to NYC cabbies to test them. Not unlike the Crown Victoria L model that was introduced specifically for Taxi use in later years.
Of course mfgs have a long history of putting cars into NYC taxi service for accelerated durability testing. A large number of Ford 4.6s did NYC taxi duty in Box Panthers before being released in the Aero cars.
In 1977, my very first cab ride in the US was in a Ford LTD. I thought it was a 76 or 77, but based on the picture above, in deference to Paul’s vast storehouse of knowledge, perhaps it was a ’75.
My family would occasionally visit NYC, and in the late 70s, early 80s, it seemed that after Checker, the big Fords were the next most popular.
…my first cab ride in the US was in Manhattan…
The 75–78 full size Fords are virtually indistinguishable by year.
While a soft ride might be seem to be appealing for ’71/72 Fords to be used in taxi duty, their wallowing, under-damped, bottoming out, floppy chassis would be a huge negative when taking abuse use over rough city roads.
Dad had a ’67 Fury III which was the 1st family car that I was a regular (new) driver of, then a ’69 Galaxie 500 and followed by a ’72 Galaxie 500. After the Fury the ’69 Ford seemed overly soft but tolerable, compared to the much tighter Fury, however the ’72 was absolutely atrocious, the front fenders would literally flap when hitting big potholes. The soft suspension and flexy body on frame made it so ridiculously loose feeling that it turned me against US full-sizers for years, until in the early ’80s when we needed a trailer puller we discovered full Mopar C-bodies with unibody, torsion bars and leaf springs. Those flabby marshmallow ’70s Fords were so totally unsuitable for taxi use it’s no wonder they used so many Mopars!
FWIW, a 1969 and a 1972 Ford uses essentially the same chassis. In fact, I just checked the Ford Master Parts Catalog and the listings for coils springs is nearly identical between both years. That said, there is a massive number of spring combinations Ford offered in these years, varied by engine, transmission, and options. And of course there was also a heavy duty suspension package that was offered too.
So while there is no doubt that there could be a variation in the ride and handling between a ’69 and ’72 Ford, it was likely only due to the suspension configuration on specific to each car you drove. Further, the bodies were changed considerably, and so the difference in the bodies structural rigidity could made things feel even worse..
Whatever the cause, I will affirm Randerson’s observation that there was a massive difference in the structural integrity of the 69-70 Ford and the 71-72 version. The 69-70 was a tight car, and felt very much like the 65-68 version. The 71-72 was a quivering structure that got worse with age.
I recall reading at the time that Ford had intentionally engineered some flex into the front frame of the 71 as a way to further dissipate road shock before it got to the cabin. Whether this is true or not I do not know. But the structural rigidity of the two generations was like night and day.
I have no doubt in Randerson or your assessments of the integrity of the cars. My point was that the changes were not in the chassis engineering but there may have been differences in the suspension configuration. I also have no doubt the body of the 71s were likey much more floppy. As Paul has mentioned many times, these perimeter frame cars used the body as a major structural component that added significant stiffness to relatively flexible frames. So a body with less structural integrity would make a big difference in the cars overall stiffness.
FWIW, Ford engineered their perimeter frame chassis since 1965 to flex to help absorb road shock. The 1971 chassis really isn’t all that much different than the 1965 chassis other than a longer wheelbase. I suspect it was the looser bodies that made these cars less structural sound for 1971 to 1972. It was probably Fords way of saving money. However it seems for 1973 they stiffened things up a bit again
My parents’ 1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale hardtop sedan featured a hood and front fenders that flapped when the car was driven over various back roads. The front end didn’t just flap when the car hit a pothole. Simply driving it on back roads that were not glass-smooth resulted in the front end flapping. And this car was not a clunker at that point.
Granted, their car was the four-door hardtop, not a four-door sedan. But I have a hard time believing that the 1971-76 GM B- and C-bodies were better than their Ford counterparts when it came to structural rigidity.
If I recall correctly, the 1961 full-size Pontiac was the first GM car to feature a frame that had been engineered with a deliberate amount of “flex” to smooth out bumps. The theory was that the frame would absorb shock before it was transmitted to the body. The body was supposedly strengthened to compensate for the flexible frame. It was also mounted on rubber “biscuits” that were also supposed to absorb any shock before it reached the passenger compartment.
GM’s A-bodies featured a flexible frame, as did GM’s 1965 full-size cars. (I believe that the A-bodies had a flexible frame beginning in 1964. If not then, they definitely featured it when redesigned for 1968.)
The frame on the 1965 full-size Fords and Mercurys was actually stronger, because it had been fully boxed.
Wasn’t that the rationale behind the ’53 Studebaker frame? And look how flexy their early hardtops turned out!
The 1965 Ford frame was boxed but it was still designed to flex. The torque box area on the front and the rear of the chassis is where it would flex to help absorb road shock. Hence the name torque box for the torsion forces that are being applied as it flexes. The body bolted to the chassis stiffened up the frame and where most of the rigidity comes from. The front end sheet metal also stiffens the front end of the car by tying everything together.
Love the snap of Terminal 4!
Ford taxicabs were great in ’57 (one of my favorite commercials):
I visited NYC around 1980 and there were plenty of Checkers then. I don’t really remember what else.
Here is a photo from 1977 with a few Fords and Volare thrown in
Although it seems that the Ford’s weren’t used much if at all for NYC at this time they did have a factory taxi package. So I am sure there must have been some demand in other markets. I know at this time NYC was very specific on the taxi specifications and maybe Ford didn’t make the cut. I recall Plymouth hired Hurst to modify the rear passenger compartment on the ’68 Furys and Belvederes to meet the NYC ingress and egress specs.
The 1972 Ford Taxi package was available on the Custom, and Custom 500. Unlike the civilian models, the Taxi models were available with only two engines, the 240 six, and the 302-2V V8. For 1972 the taxi package included: roof light wiring, heavy duty frame, heavy duty springs and shocks, extra-cooling package, heavy-duty battery, heavy duty rubber floor, heavy duty seats, heavy duty trim, heavy-duty brake linings. Note the heavy duty chassis components, such as frame, springs and shocks compared which would have improved the durability and ride over a typical marshmallow civilian setup.
For what it’s worth, the Ford’s were fairly popular in the police fleets for 1971-72. I know in 1971 it was used by Cook County, Illinois, Sherriff and the Nassau County New York Police.
In 1972, the Fords were used by Kentucky, Maryland, Kansas, Montana, Connecticut, Massachusetts, South Carolina, Florida, and Georgia Police – 9 states total. In comparison 17 states used Plymouth, 8 states used Dodges, 3 used Chevrolet, and 2 used Mercury. The police cars had significantly stiffer springs, shocks and larger sway bars compared to civilian cars. In 1972 Ford police cars were available with the police exclusive “P” Code 429-4V that made considerably more power than the civilian “N” Code 429-4V.
The real bad ass year for the 429 was 1971.
It was essentially the 429-CJ from the Torino. A one year only anamoly . The 72 429 was essentially a slightly tweaked retail version.
FWIW I have seen
different hp ratings for the 1973 460 P-code .
I have seen both 224 and 274 in various publications. I strongly believe the 274 is an error, where somehow the 2 looked a 7. Given the feebleness of post 71 385 series mills I trust the 224 figure. I don’t see how they could pull an extra 50 smog legal ponys, & if they could, why wouldn’t they offer it in civilian versions, too?
The 1971 429 PI engine was virtually a CJ, there weren’t many differences. However a the 1972 429 wasn’t far off a 1971 429 CJ performance wise. It certainly was not a warmed over N-code engine, there were major differences. The P-code 429 was limited to the 1972 Police Interceptor package in either the fullsize Ford or the Torino. Note that you could still the N-code in Police cars, but this was in the 429 Cruiser Package (Fullsize) or the 429 Police Package (Torino).
The 1972 429 PI used a lower compression head than 1971, but it was a high flow head with big valves and ports. This head is significantly better thant the N-code D2VE heads, which are poorly regarded. Many in the 385 crowd suggest the D20E-AB 1972 PI head is actually a better street head than the CJ head. This head was also used on the 1973-74 460 PI which was quite a high performance Police engine for it’s day as well. It had all kinds of other hi-po goodies including a performance cam, high performance pistons and rods, guide plates, dual exhaust, and a carb setup specifically for this engine. I kind of equate the 1972 429 PI to the Q-code 351 CJ. It was a low-compression hi performance engine, and had performance in the same league as its high compression forebearer. Ford never officially gave the 1972 429 PI a horsepower rating, but based on what the 460 PI engines made I am sure it’d be in the neighborhood of 270 net hp.
Here are some part numbers comparisons:
Heads:
D2OE-AB = D2OZ-6049-A ~ 1972 PI
D0OZ-6049-H 1970/71 PI heads, also used on same yrs CJ & SCJ
Rods:
D0OZ-6200-A .. Rod – used on 1970/72 PI; CJ & SCJ
C8SZ-6200-A .. Rod – all except for 429 PI, CJ & SCJ
Carbs
429 PI Specific Carburetor ~ 1971
D0OZ-9510-B .. ROCHESTER 4V ~ 715 CFM
429 – PI Specific Carburetor ~ 1972
D2AZ-9510-N .. Ford 4V Carb ~ (Motorcraft CA-885-B)
Based on the head and cam used in the 1973-1974 460 Pi engine I have no doubt that the 1973 274 net hp rating is relatively accurate. This engine like the 1972 PI had significant performance upgrades including the high performance oriented heads. The 1974 engine was rated at 269 hp. In 1975 the 460 PI lost its heads and became a warmed over civilian 460 sharing the same major components. The rating dropped to 226 hp or which was only about 10 hp more than A code civilian engine.
Ford had a history of offering police only engines, so I am not surprised that police interceptor engines in this era were significantly better than the civilian engines. The roughly 270 net hp ratings is about the same that the Chevy 454 and Dodge 440 in there best configuration made at that time too
Haven’t you and I discussed this before?
Haven’t you and I discussed this before?”
More or less, I guess. I’m just POed that retail customers couldn’t buy them. If they were smog legal and pre-CAFE, what would it hurt?
“. I’m just POed that retail customers couldn’t buy them.”
You and me both! Ford could have had a real contender had they offered these engines in civilian cars. Actually it makes me think of an old Hi-Performance Cars article on his very thing. It was called “Ford goes Legit” or something like that. It was written in 1973 or so and talked about the 460 PI Torinos being the fastest Fords but were only sold to Police. Basically it concluded by saying to watch the police auctions for a cheap performance bargains.
A decade later the Dodges would be gone, replaced by Chevy Impalas. Check out the street scenery in the video for “The Message” by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PobrSpMwKk4 this is the New York City of my teen years in the early 80s.
Like you, Paul, I made my first trip to NYC in the spring of ’73. We drove out from McKeesport in my parents’ ’72 Coronet Crestwood and stayed for a week. And like you, I remember the cabs being mainly Dodges – mostly Coronets, plus some big Chevys and Checkers. Because there were five of us, we tried to get Checkers when we could – and back in Pittsburgh (and McKeesport) all the cabs were Checkers – the Makins of Checker Motors still owned the Pittsburgh cab company. So seeing “regular cars” as cabs was a revelation.
One thing I remember seeing in NYC were some ’71 or ’72 Biscaynes fitted with elastromeric front bumpers, part of a safety test fleet.
By the time I came east to go to college 10 years later, it was all Caprices and Diplomats/Gran Furies, then the Crown Vics took over. Still a couple of Checkers running around through the 80’s.
Just this afternoon, in Brooklyn, I rode in a Green (Boro) 2010 Town Car with 400K miles – still going strong in its last year of eligibility.
Digging the HoJo’s shuttle van in the airport pic!
I am restoring a 1975 Plymouth Fury as a NYC Cab. I know most in that year were Dodge Coronets, but this has the same body. Any suggestions, i’m all ears.
Thanks
If I can give my two cents .
I was born in 1970 so I really don’t remember New York City cabs in the 70s. All I can say is looking at old pictures of New York City , I don’t think I’ve seen any 1971/72 Fords and to add as far as full-size General Motors full size cars (1971-76 B body ) I have only seen 1971 Chevrolets ( Biscayne model) in use.
Nothing after that year either .
This video was either taken in 1973 or 74. I see two Chevrolet nova taxis in this video. I think this is all real I don’t think this is fake (Hollywood). https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/1970s-rear-driving-north-with-traffic-on-3rd-stock-video-footage/103943957?fbclid=IwAR2bBt3svMUhA1tTWZ8SgMyd_V0x3pNow1DoNl_Gc2IjTNQofWiCNh1JjKg
I know this is not a taxi but here is an image of an actual police car used by the New York City transit police -1971 ford nyc transit police
https://pin.it/6wupkycvuxewbh
This should not count as an official sighting of a 1971/72 Ford New York City taxi cab. I just noticed in this video around the three second mark you see one passing. I could not freeze the frame. I can’t tell if this is an actual official New York City taxi cab or taxi cab from somewhere else. I also don’t know if this is a legitimate video taken of New York City or this is some Hollywood prop.
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/new-york-in-the-1970s-stock-video-footage/1030982174
Paul, here is a 71-72 Ford taxi next to the van.
Awesome find!