I know the shot is a bit fuzzy (it was getting darkish, and my camera is croaking), but no, this is not an old snapshot from 1974. This is the other day in 2014, and some things never seem to change, at least in Eugene. Which is fine with me, as it makes the place more colorful, literally. Nice paint job…
Looks like a circa 2000 Blue Bird on an International chassis, based on the mirrors and the stamp steel wheels (older models used spoked). I can’t make out the engine badge to see if its the DT466 or a T444E (7.3L, like Ford used). I used to have family in a local bus company for over 20 years. These were good buses, especially with the T444E. These engines almost made the buses feel “peppy”, well at least compared to the old sluggish 466.
For many years it was the purchaser’s choice between the “Budd” or “California” style wheels.
Personally I found the DT466E trucks in the fleet I used to service much peppier than the T444E unit.
I didn’t know that about the wheels. I just remember buses from that era switching over. One of my friends used to know all the bus specs like that. That bus company my family was involved with used to have the spoked wheels until around the late 1990’s, then all the buses switched to stamped steel wheels. Most of the other new ones for other companies followed suit, so I assumed they were always that way. Maybe buses were different from the trucks.
I was good friends with a bunch of the mechanics there. I didn’t have much wheel time since I wasn’t an employee. The early IDI 7.3L’s I remember being sluggish, and so were the early T444Es. They made some changes to the T444E and transmission not long after it came out and then they seemed much peppier than the 466’s in that fleet (mind you most were early to mid 1990s IIRC).
In the wheel department the bus chassis and trucks were the same as far as the wheel choices go. It did seem to be that certain regions favored one or the other, hence the fact that the demountable rim wheels are often referred to as “California” wheels.
Now a cowl and chassis that was intended to be a School Bus did have a different braking system with a larger air compressor and tank on air brake models and wider shoes/drums. They also typically had lower gearing to reflect the stop and go type of driving.
The buses around here are all hydraulic four wheel discs. Only the rare bus had air brakes. The operators do that because it’s easier to find and train drivers without having to get the air brake endorsement.
In our school district all the full size buses are air braked, presumably due to their fail safe design. A number of years ago my son came home one day and told us how he was late to school because the bus broke down. He explained that he heard the low air buzzer come on and the driver kind of freaked out trying to get the bus into a parking lot so it wasn’t stuck in the middle of the road.
Yes, spoked wheels have been rather rare on the West Coast forever. For one reason or another, demountable wheels have always been preferred out here, unlike the Eastern parts of the country.
You are mixing terms there Paul, demountable, spoke, Dayton and California all terms commonly used to describe the type of wheel system where the rim is bolted to the hub. Disc or Budd are the common terms for the type of wheel that mounts like a car or light truck.
It is interesting that California style is the slang for that type of wheel since they seem to have fallen out of favor on the west coast much sooner than they did on the east coast.
You have to compare like rated engines, the DT-466 was available in several ratings that went much higher than the T-444E. As for the wheels, cast spoke demontables and Budds were available concurrently, so it isn’t a reliable dating characteristic. Could be a Blue Bird body, thought most ‘Birds used GM chassis those years. In addition, Navistar bought Amtrans out around the same time and naturally most IH bus chassis went under their own bodies after that. Good bus, no question.
You’re right that I am sure these all used low power rated engines. I just remember the T444E’s from this era having a lot more snap compared to the 466’s in the same fleet.
I am pretty certain that body is a Blue Bird, and although the wheels are obviously not an accurate way to date the body, the mirrors are. There were some GM/Blue Birds here, but by far the majority was International. Most GM’s were propane 366’s, but some also ran Cat 3116’s.
Blue Bird indeed. This one in particular has the not so common option combination of low headroom with the taller windows. Your experience with the International engines must chalk up to tall gearing or some other anomaly, the DT466 is by far the more powerful engine of the two, the T444E is overtaxed in the application. My state doesn’t allow school districts to order buses above a certain size with the International V8, as they end up costing more in the long run.
Well the 466’s in this fleet were hardly powerful, my guess is they were the lowest power variant. I am sure they made more powerful versions. On top of that they had a hard time keeping heat in the winter. During a cold winter, the temperature gauge would drop on the highway, and were stone cold when idling. The T444E’s had tons of heat. The more I think of it, I do remember the early (mid 90’s) T444E’s being sluggish with the 4-speed autos. It wasn’t until they introduced the 5 speed auto that they seemed much peppier. IIRC (it’s been a while), these transmissions would lock-up in second gear, and really took advantage of the diesel torque. Perhaps these buses also had a more powerful version of the T444E too, but I don’t remember the RPM’s being different between the 466 and T444e’s on the highway.
In any case, all of the buses were slow. Even empty, they’d loose a lot of speed on a hill on the highway. I remember the fleet operator saying that they didn’t want lots of power because the drivers always drove them to the floor all the time anyway. More power, just meant more speed.
What a pity it isn’t ‘Forward’ being driven by Ken Kesey! Considering the prices of houses in Portland (and presumably Eugene) a bus, even with the fuel costs wouldn’t be a bad way to live for awhile. And if you don’t like your neighbors in RV park, you move on.
I did mean ‘Further’. It’s been a long time since I read about Kesey & his merry pranksters. If I could go back in time, riding that bus would definitely be one of the things I’d do.
I feel as though I fell into a time machine. Lemme have a drag man!
Sweet looking bus! It looks like it could be a modern version of Further, or a tour bus for the Partridge Family. While I’m too young to remember either times, I do remember seeing re-runs of the Partridge Family and have seen the multi-coloured tour bus that was used. I’ve also seen the old 1939 International Bus Ken Kesey used.
Whenever I see a post featuring school buses, I am reminded of the unique school bus I enjoyed on a daily basis during my first several years of high school. The bus itself was a late 70s Superior body made by the Sheller-Globe Corporation, on an early 70s Chevrolet chassis. But what made this bus very unique as a local milk-run school bus, is that the body appeared designed for highway charter use. It featured a raised ‘scenic-cruiser’ style roof, baggage compartments below the seating area, plus vinyl seating with raised backrests for complete privacy and comfort. Unique for a late 70s school bus. Strangely, it was being used for daily school bus use, while clearly designed for long distance highway use. It was very comfortable for us children, but seemed like overkill for daily, local use. This was the only example I have seen anywhere of this design, and have never seen a photo of this model on the Net.
You have to wonder about that, maybe it was something someone ordered and backed out of too late so they offered it to the school district at a discount. Typically a chassis intended for School Bus use gets bigger brakes and gearing intended for low speed. So if it was really intended as a hwy bus I’d be a little surprised that they took it.
I know it was used occasionally for charter use. So, maybe the owners felt it was viable for dual roles. The school bus route was primarily rural and local highway, so the demand on the brakes and gearing wouldn’t have been as severe as in the city.
I suppose that’s why our county had a smaller fleet of “activity buses” that floated between schools and were used for field trips. Presumably they were geared differently so as to be more suitable for highway use?
Hello, world, hear the song that we’re singin’
C’mon get happy!
A whole lot of lovin’ is what we’ll be bringin’
We’ll make you happy!
I haven’t been able to look at a psychedelic bus in the last 44 years without hearing that song in my head. Dang!
That song came to mind for me too. I liked the chemistry between the Ruben Kincaid and Danny Partridge characters, they were like an early Walter White and Jesse Pinkman though Ruben had some lawyer Saul thrown in for good effect.
I didn’t even notice the woman on the hood at first. She blends right in!
Somebody’s getting’ ready for Burning Man!
Seems pretty likely that is what it is getting prepped for.
Wow, that bus ain’t cheap to operate, it has the aerodynamics of a flying brick, and I sure hope those attachments on the roof are fastened well. Sure looks cool regardless and how long do you think this International 3800 is? My school district only had one of these since they went gaga for the International Harvester S1700s, somewhat gaga for 1990s Thomas Pushers (bad idea), and bananas for the Freightliner FS-65 until the Safe-T-Liner C2 came along.
We had a few of the “snub nose” version of these Internationals, AKA the Thomas Vista. Interesting buses that were sort of a hybrid between conventional and Forward Control. Almost everything in the fleet was a Thomas Built of some sort, since their manufacturing plant was actually within our district (Guilford County, NC).
My district had one Thomas Vista 30 or so capacity Wheelchair bus and the suspension was shit over Central New York roads plus the interior was noisy due to the engine. The heat was nice in the winter though. It was that bus that actually got the person in charge of buying school buses fired since the Vista was the final straw since they had also bought a bunch of Thomas Pushers which were rubbish on the hilly routes.
The Vista usually was not assigned to the flat smoother road routes due to its limited capacity and thus they eventually cut their loses and got rid of it instead of driving it until the wheels fell off like they wanted to.
No idea why two Blue Bird TC/2000s were also purchased around 2000, they sucked from the beginning.
Hah! I believe I’m experiencing the CC effect for the first time. Not quite as colorful, this seems to live not too far from me, within the Vienna Westbahnhof (Vienna West Railway Station) compound. According to the sign-writing it’s owned by a local school but I never saw it move and those buses are not typical for Europe – usually you get a “normal” coach or bus to ferry schoolchildren, so I have no idea what’s the story behind it…
Ahh, AmTran, no long with us. Finding a replacement windshield must be fun with that atypical shape.
I know she’s a hippy but she’s sitting on the hood of an International, in a dress and painting it. I don’t know what I should be feeling…
I wan’it I wan’it I wan’it
I said you caaan’t have it!