Vancouver never ceases to amaze a curbivore such as myself. In Vancouver’s Kerrisdale neighbourhood yesterday I spotted this lovely Gen II VW Golf GTI.
When I was a young man, I managed to get into a 1986 Jetta, so looking at this car sure brings back memories. This one has the stock headlights swapped out for the Euro versions. The BBS wheels are perfect, too.
The amazing thing is how this Golf II Interior really isn’t that much different from that in my Golf VII.
This car looked all original, so it is obvious someone has a lot of love for it.
When these cars were new, I simply couldn’t afford one. It was the same story when I bought my 2018 Golf SportWagen. I couldn’t afford the GTI and I felt it wasn’t worth the extra money when a performance tune could reap most of the benefits.
My recollection is that is a late 80s version and the BBS wheels and headlights came that way. They were a bit pricey new. I bought a used ’86 model in ’90 with the wheels that had cutouts that looked like “P”. Car had 36,000 miles and I paid maybe $8k, put 100,000 trouble free miles on it and sold it in ’95 for $5k.
Only real problem with the car was leaky sunroof. We had a freak storm and it rained hard and then froze and the gearshift pocket filled with water and froze solid.
Bought a ’93 Corrado in ’95 and that vehicle kept me away from VW ever since.
The early 90’s GTI 16V’s had the 2,0 liter 134 hp 16V DOHC engine, BBS wheels, real Recaro seats and the round headlamps. The badge on this car denotes GTI, not 16V which came with the 105hp 1.8 SOHC engine 14″ wheels and VW seats.
Either the badge is wrong or there were upgrades to the more standard GTI.
The 16V was a great engine,
I had an 88 GTI 16V with the smaller 1.8 DOHC 123hp engine. It had the 14″ tear drop wheels and VW sport seats. Loved that car.
My first new, modern car! I’d be happy to drive it still if it could somehow have modern emissions and safety levels. This was the perfect GTI for me. Bigger and smoother than the MK I, but still light and direct. Not so fast that I never got to drive it hard.
As a former GTI owner, I still have a good deal of fondness for these. These were never really common, but it has been a long time since I saw one.
I see that this one seems to lack the brake light in the rear window that the US market cars required, and once you get beyond 1985-86, my ability to ID the year on one of these goes pretty wobbly.
This one *does* have a third brakelight…it’s just integrated into the spoiler instead of being behind the glass as on an earlier model (or non-GTI).
I do like the Mk2 GTI. I used to run a Tornado Red 8v a few years back. Absolutely cracking car but the values have pushed them well beyond reasonable budgets now.
I’ve always liked these! Especially in red, which is the definitive colour for a Mk2. I’m thinking this one is at least a 1990 since it has the big bumpers and round headlights. But VW was sometimes notorious for making changes midyear, so take that with a grain of salt.
This one is also a Canadian model, so it has conventional pillar-mounted lap-and-shoulder belts rather than the door-mounted “passive” belts that US models were cursed with in this timeframe. Much better for safety, but a headache for anyone needing to move across the border. (Oops, your car doesn’t comply with US regulations! Better sell it now and buy another.)
Agreed. It is a 1990-1992. Another giveaway is the one-piece door glass. The earlier Mk2s had a fixed glass panel where there should have been a vent window.
Caught this one back in July. Not original wheels but the colour looks genuine for a GTi and it was in generally good order. The numberplate was on the rear parcel shelf, perhaps why it was stored off road. ‘H’ suffix so 1990-91.
Didn’t realize the early Mk2s had a fake vent window. The Mk1 had a real opening vent window, at least as an option.
Growing up blue collar, we hated this car. Not that we didn’t admire it. We hated that it showed us an imported economy car could be more fun to drive than our old pony cars. We hated that we couldn’t afford them. We hated that VW, the folks who made Beetles, were now showing us how to do a great litle car with performance. It was one thing for VW to do a Scirocco, that wasn’t a threat – but these? Jealous. This car clearly signalled that our rusty Mustang IIs, Chevy Monzas, Camaros, Gremlins and Monte Carlos were yesterday’s rubbish.
This great car was never a brougham personal luxury hoohah. It didn’t have velour seats, shag carpeting and padded vinyl roofs. We couldn’t afford anything else but those rusty tubs. Our hoods were up daily fixing leaks and wondering what the hell were the sounds coming out from under our Pintos.
College educated guys drove these cars. We had time cards. They wore dress clothes to work. We used our hands. Sure, we had wives, so we got sex – but we ended up with kids a year out of high school, (if you were lucky). This car signalled that the greasy hot fun we enjoyed away from our wives were now available to the NERDS!
So, to you guys who loved these cars, know that we hated you as we pushed our rusty Dusters out of industrial parks, after they failed to start as we were coming home from the midnight shifts. Yeah – we know they were great cars, but FU anyway.
I appreciate your take on this. I was a blue collar guy who put myself thru school and got a degree and wanted to wear a shirt and tie and work in an air conditioned building at last. I took on the persona and moved my interests to European cars. Now I look back and think I would have been better off staying with Mustang and Camaro and Monte Carlo SS and Buick GNX. In the long run they are cooler cars and the VW is just meh.
Honestly, we all knew the cars we were driving and leaking all over KMart’s parking lots were subpar. Every Saturday morning there was a line of guys getting parts at the Dixie Auto Parts store in South Heights just to keep them running. We knew our rides were second to the Toyotas, Datsuns and VWs in engineering and quality, but we worked for companies that supplied the parts for American cars our neighbors assembled. The Torrence Ford plant was life. The Ford Stamping Plant was important. So we did the best we could.
The guys who got out of the neighborhoods and got degrees and office jobs and earned a salary were the ones tooling around in nice imported cars. It wasn’t that we couldn’t afford them – union wages gave a good paycheck – it’s just that you root for your team, not the opposition. So mocking American cars hurt. It was deserved, but like how you deal with your drunk uncles – you don’t dis them when you know your grandma loves them. American cars were family – you look for the best in them and hope they get better – which they did.
Tough times. Air conditioning? Wow – what a freaking luxury to work in a/c, right?
I have a kind of dread of these. They were fun to drive, but I never saw any reason to be encouraged about the Volkswagen ownership experience: weird reliability issues (sometimes really odd ones, like bizarre electric gremlins), expensive parts, high repair costs. The conventional wisdom when I was in high school was that the best way to survive modern Volkswagen ownership (other than being a mechanic with a garage full of your own tools) was to find a competent independent Volkswagen specialist who understood the design foibles and wouldn’t soak you for quite so much on labor as the dealers would.
VW parts are no more expensive than anything else. There is also a huge aftermarket for them.
The Golf VII rates very well on reliability. Mine is four years old and has had nary an issue.
The reason to own a VW car is that they drive beautifully. They have a feeling of solidity that is not present in a Japanese or US based car. In addition, the cabin has very high quality materials.
If I need to do some wrenching, well, so be it. I am too old for a boring car. My Golf is a hoot to drive and is wickedly quick. A Corolla won’t give this experience.
This was not true in the U.S. in the ’80s or ’90s, in my experience and recollection, and labor rates were dear.
Sure, but this didn’t change the above.
None of this changes what I said, and perceived quality of interior materials is not the same thing as reliability.
I’m not saying these cars (and I’m talking specifically about the Mk2 in this post and the previous Mk1) didn’t have positive qualities — I learned to drive on a Mk1 — but they were not necessarily pleasant to own, which is different from being fun to drive.
Well, good thing we are not in the 1980s or 1990s.
VW advertises to its owners that its parts and service are no more expensive than a jobber. My personal experience shows this to be true.
I don’t want to drive a refrigerator with wheels. Others do.
At no point did I say you had to!
I’m saying, after the assortment of maddening reliability problems of the Mk1 Rabbit on which I learned to drive (plus the cost of a clutch replacement, which was a lot of money and still less than the dealer wanted), and the similar experiences of other people I knew who owned Mk1 and Mk2 Rabbits and Golfs in the U.S., I respond to the sight of this car with dread, whatever its dynamic virtues, and I wouldn’t want to go there again.
How that somehow implies that you are legally obligated to drive a Corolla is beyond me.
Like I mentioned below, things can change quite a bit over 45 years.
The Golf I was a very simple car. A clutch job is easy on them-I know because I have done several. I machined the pressure plate every time when I did a clutch. The extra work was worth it. The only really dodgy thing about them was the fuse block and how water would leak down the antenna.
I used to get Brazilian brake rotors for $10.
I lost track of how many times the Mk1 on which I learned to drive failed to start, had the (defective) oil pressure warning buzzer come on without warning, and generally made itself a PITA. It was needlessly complicated in weird areas, and expensive to fix and service in ways that belied its economy car specifications. (It had no power options, or even a radio.)
Aaron, was it a German car?
The only Golf I’s I ever personally experienced were 1977-1980 German cars, mostly diesel but some gas.
Here in Canada, the USA made Golfs were widely decried as manifestly inferior to the German cars. That’s because they were. They came into our garage a lot more often than the German cars. I wanted nothing to do with them.
The diesel was as reliable as a rock. There was no way 48 hp was going to damage the drive train of a car designed for a gas engine.
Canuck and Ateup, you both have a point.
I recently bought a 2017 Jetta GLI, which I view as a Mk6 GTI with a trunk–not as cool, but less expensive to buy used.
I got it used because there is not a single new that excites me. Not one.
The Jetta GLI is a great driving car. But I know I’m taking a chance.
Even in the simpler 1980s, VW were hit or miss cars. Kind of like GM cars from the 1970s. I had a reliable US-made GTI. My coworkers had troublesome German Jettas. All 1986 or 87 cars. Same basic car, one wouldn’t start, the others would. Mine had an engine noise, the others didn’t. My dealer made it worse, I told him I wanted the noise back (it turned out to be a mis-machined wrist pins. Dealer didn’t know–I learned it from Road & Track magazine “Technical Correspondence” section, and then dealer confirmed it. I didn’t trust dealer, so I just lived with the noise. One day, about 10 years and 125k miles later, I noticed the noise was gone…)
However, VW parts seem pricier. Even worse, my sense is that VW dealers are lousy, STILL, just as they were in the 1980s and 1990s (my first new car was a VW GTI 8V–which I still like more than the Jetta. It is the perfect car. But parts for MK2 are not “plentiful”, nor inexpensive.
Mechanics have told me that Mercedes and BMW support their old cars–VAG does not.
So yes, if you like your VW driving experience, it won’t come cheap, and it may be pricey. It will be less stressful and less expensive with a good, independent mechanic who knows how to work on them.
they were not necessarily pleasant to own
I have no idea why Len even countered your original post because he has previously explained he understands that very statement firsthand in great detail; his 1986 Jetta COAL only amplifies that same sentiment x10. He owns a VW again, so today it’s all rose colored apparently.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/coal-1986-vw-jetta-two-door-fahrvergnugen-gone-bad/
It’s always intriguing to read of the North American take on VW reliability. Yes, the parts may be more expensive than some here, but the durability and reliability is generally accepted as being a step ahead. Specialist can be of value here too.
It’d be interesting to find out if there really is a difference and, if so, what the root cause – different models, different assembly plants or different expectations and comparative standards.
Ahead of what, please? Your claim doesn’t match my experience, and it seems I am not alone.
In my experience with VW products, they require more service than a Japanese car. Failing to do said services is a disaster on a VW.
My car has had the brake fluid and spark plugs replaced, as per the maintenance schedule.
Daniel, things can change quite a bit in 32 years. My car is utterly reliable.
My experience with the ’90 Jetta matched up much too well with an automotively-highly-savvy friend’s ’03 Beetle and another friend’s ’08 Golf and another friend’s ’11 Jetta. A family member’s ’16 Audi has been reasonably good for them, though it has had to go back to the dealer for stupid electrical-electronic problems.
And even without any of that, another family member is a longtime service writer for a very busy shop. They aren’t brand-loyalists; they willingly and with great competence work on anything that has an engine. His advice: VW-group vehicles do not fix well or inexpensively, and they do not stay fixed.
I don’t doubt your car is doing fine for you, but that Jetta (and what passed for VW dealer service departments) bit us hard enough to leave permanent scars. It’s not a hard, flat no, but it would take a lot to persuade me to put money into giving a VW product a try again.
I have observed that cars more or less tend to reflect their creators’ culture. In broad zoom, Germans love to dote on complexity, so they build complex machines that beg to be doted on. Japanese prize harmony, so they build machines all parts of which have coördinated lifespans—so Japanese cars go and go and go and go until everything seems to break at once. Americans are left as an exercise for the reader.
Americans like ease and convenience and have not sense of limits, and the cars reflect that.
They tend to be big. They have always had excellent HVAC. They used to be quieter and roomier.
To give people the sizzle, they used to short-cut on the bacon.
And hey, if you didn’t like it, it was relatively easy (unlike Europe) and affordable to get another.
No limits.
+1
Much as I loved my gen 1 Scirocco (enough to keep it for 17 years in rust-free Vancouver, losing it only to a car thief), it was a poor economic choice.
Almost annual major bills became expected after 5 or 6 years – electrical issues, fuel system problems, cv joints, head gasket – despite regular dealer maintenance and averaging only 10 000 km a year.
I never regretted buying it, but it was no Toyota.
There have been, at a conservative estimate 15 VWs – Polos, Golfs, Jettas, a Vento (Golf Mk3 saloon in Europe), a Golf Plus, a Passat estate and also various SEATs – in my immediate family over the last 30 years or so. Even now, there are still 2 Golfs and a SEAT.
The only significant defect I can recall is a broken handbrake lever trim cover, which the dealer fixed under the (expired) warranty.
The common UK perception is that VW quality is ahead of anything, for example, French or Italian, or Ford or GM Europe as was. They are also considered to be thoroughly and fully contemporarily engineered. VW even advertise based on it – “if only everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen”
They (VW, SEAT and Skoda) may not excite enthusiasts (I have an Alfa, everyone else seems to have or have had a VW) but they sell on other strengths, or perceptions thereof.
My dad’s 1986 Jetta GL Turbodiesel went over 500,000 km before my mom traded it in. It had no major repairs in that time. I saw it around for several years after that.
My ’86 German built Jetta GL 5 speed gas engine served me well from 1991 to 2021, still has original engine, transaxle, steering rack and pump.
Over 300k miles on it, most trouble free car I ever owned, AC doesn’t blow cold now, other then needing tires and front wishbones (bushings worn), along with a front wheel bearing, it still runs well.
Parts have always been easy to get at reasonable prices, even today. Do my own upkeep, most repairs are quite straightforward. I bought a 2013 Mazda 3 sedan last year from a friend at a great price, it has 102k miles and runs well, every 30 years I try to replace my car whether it needs it or not. The Mazda is a good driving car, feels a lot like a Mk5 Jetta. Well built, good reliability reputation, time will tell.
ABS, stability and traction control in the rain is all good to have, there’s been a couple of times in traffic being the only car on the road (in the Jetta) without them can be a real wake up call!
I’m guessing VWs were ahead of British, French and Italian cars in perceived reliability. To be fair, VW had a good reputation in the US until the Japanese started getting a bit of market acceptance. I had a number of VW-Audi products when this GTI was current. The key was knowing a great specialist and not knowing what Honda or Toyota ownership was like.
When I see a MK2 Golf, I see failed engine mounts, bad A/C compressors, fried light bulbs, and heater cores blown by failed radiator pressure-caps that VW obviously knew about for at least half a dozen years as they continued to use them and sell them as replacement parts. They did drive better than FWD Corolla sedans back then though, which is only a delusion about the new ones.
This VW was absolutely the most trustworthy car I’d had. It replaced the NSU 1000TT that had been my one-car daily driver for ten years. (Which could be seen as the uncle of the GTI.)
The VW brought me newfound resources, like factory replacement parts and trained servicemen. And, what, a warranty! That car didn’t live long enough to prove its reliability. All I can say is that I wrecked it one time more than I repaired it…
Once ubiquitous now rare, especially in near stock form like this one rather than the artificially rusty “stanced” monstrosities at car shows. The round lights and BBS wheels may be period correct modifications rather then original although Canadian spec may have differed from US spec. The lack of both fixed front vent windows and high mount stop light mean it’s not US spec which always had large one piece headlights like a Jetta and either spoke wheel like the A1 GTI or a slot wheel. The early16V used a special Pirelli wheel with P shaped cutouts.
The A2 generation had a reputation for being tough and reliable although I prefer the earliest K-Jetronic over Digifant since my years of A1 VW wrenching make it a familiar system. As an aside I laugh at owners of A2 Jettas in the US who install round headlight grilles thinking it makes their cars “GDM” because they European market Jettas never had round lights.
Slow_joe_crow, I second your comments.
I had good luck with my 1986 Mk2 GTIs. The only fuel injection part I needed was an idle stabilizer valve on both, and 2nd one needed fuel pump rebuilt. Original injectors, fuel distributor, etc.
The water pumps went on both.
My 3rd Mk2 was a low-mileage looker, but it had sat for at least 10-15 years. Sitting is not good for fuel injection. I took a chance on it–and it was costly.
All three were afflicted with various minor trim flaws.
They were great cars. My third one was my attempt to have a “new Mk2 GTI” in 2019. It was an educational experience.
I’ve been fortunate to have owned, or extensively driven many nice cars (and several duds), including an NA (early) Miata, a 16-valve 318i (1991, E30), supercharged Chevy Cobalt SS, Cadillac STS V8, ATS, C6 Corvette, Rabbit GTI, Turbo Buick Regal (Opel Insignia), Ford Probe GT, 91 Honda Prelude, 00 Camaro SS, Opel Astra diesel, 2011 Malibu, 2019 Camry, newer Dodge Charger, these are my favorites, but if I could have any new car, of all of them,
I would pick a GOOD, US-spec 86 VW GTI 8V optioned with A/C, radio, and the leather seats and no sunroof (I never got that combination, lol). Fun, versatile, efficient. I could go on and on about these cars.
I don’t change cars very often, have owned nothing but VW cars since I bought my ’78 Scirocco in 1981…I’m on my 3rd (a 2000 Golf) and in between, had an ’86 GTi (which I had up till I bought my current car 22 years ago almost exactly…with short overlap).
It was a nice car, a bit different than my 2000, but you’d expect that. Mine had the CIS-E injection, it was 8v, with manual sunroof and A/C but no other options. The oddest repair I did was replace that continuous piece of rubber that goes up the A pillar all the way to the start of the hatch…as I live in the sunbelt, all salvage yard cars had them in the same or worse condition than mine. Weatherstripping was part of this piece, and mine was in bad shape, so I ordered one from a salvage yard in Pennsylvania, it came wrapped up looking like a huge hockey stick. It went through alternator brushes/voltage regulators (same part package) like water, but otherwise was pretty reliable. I replaced the timing belt and also did the clutch when it got oil soaked, did the seals at the same time. Also replaced the seat fabric (which is remarkably good on the one pictured…mine wore at the bolsters when the foam underneath turned to dust) twice, once when the seatback release lever cable broke. The GTi had the triple odometer (2 electric, one mechanical) but all of them stopped working on mine due to a cracked fitting on the back of the box that the end of the speedometer cable plugged into broke probably due to age as it was brittle plastic. For some reason I lucked into not having the common self-machining issue that was pretty common on the close-ratio box that wasn’t a problem on regular Golfs. Mine didn’t have power steering, which was a real pain after I had a bicycle accident breaking my collarbone, scapula and 2 ribs…with the then wide 60 series tires even though the car was pretty light.
I really liked the A2 GTi…my A4 seems to have lower seating, I miss the “high” seating of the A3 and prior Golfs….kind of like VW sold out and were just like any import starting with my A4…also didn’t see the point when they substituted single blinking led on the dash for turn signal alert to separate left and right arrows just like other car makers…I don’t need to be reminded which direction I moved the turn signal lever, even though I appreciate knowing when one or the other is active.
I owned a 05 gti with the 1.8 16v. Yes it was a pain to work on and expensive at first. I bought the car for my better half at the time and literally fell in love with it. I paid 5000 for it and put another 5000 into it. It was as a new car when I was done. I loved the car so much I would put as much money into it as I could on upgrades. It was pretty reliable. When I did have problems it was always some stupid little issue like hood latch might brake. Or glove box would fall apart. But no matter what happen the car was so fun to drive I would take it every chance I got. I think when my girl and went out separate ways I teared for the car more than the girl. It was actually built at the Brazilian factory. The car made me a man wanting a 20Aniversary model with the vr6 and awd. But hard to find one in fair shape. But the 05 is in Arizona now still going like a champ.