Images posted at the Cohort by William Rubano
Detroit perpetually played the game of name debasement: every few years, create a new top model with an even more impressive sounding name, and push the previous standard-bearer down a notch. Remember when the Bel Air was only used only on the exclusive hardtop coupe Chevrolet (1950)? Well, Pontiac was a player too; in 1971 its standard bearer Bonneville was due for a take-down, thus the Grand Ville, to take its place at the top of the pecking order.
The Pontiac Bonneville (and Star Chief/Executive) had always been bestowed with a longer wheelbase of the lesser Catalina/Ventura. This was an old tradition, back when a few extra inches of wheelbase was something to brag about. The Sloanian ladder was just a series of steps of ever longer wheelbases and accordingly higher prices. But that started to crumble, when cars like the 1958 Thunderbird showed that exclusivity could come in shorter packages.
The 1971 Grand Ville and Bonneville started out on 126 inch wheelbase, stretched some 2.6 inches over the Catalina’s standard 123.5″ length. But that only lasted two years, and by 1973, all big Pontiacs, including this ’73 convertible, were riding on the same 124″ wheelbase. It undoubtedly reflected the changing values of the early seventies, as well as GM’s recognition that bigger was not always better.
The Grand Ville pushed the Bonneville down into place previously occupied by the Executive. Which means that the Catalina stayed in its place. Unlike at Chevy, where the Biscayne and Bel Air were soon pushed off the ladder totally, at Pontiac it was just a re-shuffle at the top, and the Catalina continued on until 1982, when Pontiac foolishly axed the B-Bodies totally.
If you wanted a full-size Pontiac convertible from 1973 to 1975, this was the only way to get it, after the Catalina ragtop was discontinued (there was no Bonneville convertible after 1970). Less than 5,000 of these beauties were moved each year, making it the rarest B body convertible in those years, though the red paint on this car appears to have been a popular choice.
Sedans got what looked like the upmarket roof from the C body, but remained B-bodies. A 400 (455 in 1971) came standard on all body styles, along with the usual luxury trappings of the era. You could get adjustable pedals from 1974 to 1975 as well.
The Grand Ville was a sales success at first, until the Arab oil embargo caused people to re-think buying an automobile whose name loosely translates as “large city,” and sales plummeted. In 1975, the Grand Ville was promoted to a Grand Ville Brougham, gaining some extra equipment in the process, before finally becoming the Bonneville Brougham in 1976, restoring that nameplate’s prestige in anticipation of the downsized 1977’s release.
Related reading:
1972 Pontiac Catalina: More For Your Dollar, 1973 Pontiac Grand Ville Convertible: Lady in Waiting
Nice car gotta love those government bumpers!
You got used to them, and they actually protected the car. I don’t see why everyone hates those bumpers. I just got bashed in the rear end in my beloved Civic and I wish IT had those 1974 bumpers on it. Well, at least at that time. I guess they would look a bit awkward on a modern teardrop car. Brougham away, boys!!!
I do not hate the 5 mph bumpers. The worked as advertised and really did cut down on repair costs. I know now someone will flame me with anti-government rhetoric but modern cars practically disintegrate with any kind of impact on the front end. Even a minor, and I mean almost nothing, scrape will damage a bumper cover on a modern car and any significant (like over 5 km/h) impact destroys loads of parts like ATF coolers and a/c condensers.
We ran fleets of cars with the big bumpers and they saved us loads on repair costs, just as the insurance industry wanted.
I’m all for anything that protects the car, and possibly the occupants in the car from minor bumps and scrapes. They may not always look pretty, but so what? That’s not a bumper is there to do. That’s not to say that a bumper can’t look attractive. I’ve seen some nice looking cars with 5 mph bumpers. It’s just that a bumper’s primary job is to protect the front and rear of a car from damage during parking bumps and scrapes. The only thing I’m against is the US Govt. saying that it’s against the law for a car to be sold in this country without them.
Those bumpers cost about twice as much to repair in higher-speed accidents, so any savings were ultimately a wash.
Agreed but in slow speed stuff, the big bumpers gave far more protection.
The 5 mph crash bumpers, because of their reinforcements, rusted more quickly than the “decorative” bumpers that were used previously but they certainly added some protection as well as the other safety features that were introduced at the same time.
5 mph bumpers . . . . they DID work . . . and it seemed that Chrysler did the best job of integrating them; Ford the worst. On imports, they looked absolutely ridiculous . . . however, they did work as advertised. Now all cars have a polyurethane cover over a Styrofoam pad on a metal bracket. The outsides scratch and chip; anything remotely over having a dog piss on them result in damage and repairs that cost-a-plenty. I actually miss the battering rams . . .
As you pointed out, “Grand Ville” was a questionable car name in an era with an unusual number of them. Others included Gran Fury (grandmother on a rampage?) and Gremlin.
Considering Pontiac was named to honor a city in Michigan (vis-a-vis an Indian chief), I always assumed Grand Ville was named after Grandville, another city in Michigan. Not too questionable really. But could be 100% wrong.
I’ve always figured it was GRAND + BonneVILLE, a car that was a step up from the Bonneville, Pontiac’s most prestigous sedan, with the Grand part tying in with the Grand Prix, Pontiac’s most prestigious car built specifically as a coupe.
I think yours is probably the closest to the real story, if a Bonneville is good, then the GRANDville must be better. Pontiac had lobbied for a C-body Electra/98 car for years.
But the whole point of General Motors was to have a hierarchy of cars. If Pontiac was going to sell the same lineup as Olds and Buick then what would be the point of keeping all three (and now there is one). In the sixties I always wondered what the point of both Buick and Oldsmobile was, since they were obviously selling the same basic lineup, with different styling.
At least they didn’t call it a Grande Ville = gran de ville = Town granny!
To name your car “Gran” or “Grand”. That is the question. Were BMW, Ford, and Maserati the only one to drop the d? Here are all the ones I can think of without Googling.
Ford Gran Torino
Maserati Gran Turismo
BMW 640i Gran Coupe
Pontiac Grand Prix
Pontiac Grand Ville
Pontiac Grand Am
Buick Grand National
Pontiac Grand LeMans
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Suzuki Grand Vitara
Mercury Grand Marquis
*Smacks head.
To forget that one on Curbside Classic is almost inexcusable! I knew there was something I was leaving out.
Dodge Grand Caravan
Plymouth Grand Voyager
Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk
Chrysler Grand LeBaron…..just kidding, but it almost sounds “right” no?
Grand LeBaron Brougham kind of rolls off the tongue…
Plymouth Gran Fury
Plymouth Grand Voyager and Grand Caravan
Sorry, I can’t think of any ‘Grande’ Mopars.
Can’t believe I forgot Gran Fury, either.
And the earlier Fury “Gran Coupe” and “Gran Sedan”.
Speaking of ‘Grande’, there was also the Ford Mustang Grande.
There was also that Grande Sport featured a while back. Hehehe
Grand Vitara
Volkswagen Rabbit Gran Turismo Iniezione.
There was also the 1965-66 Buick Skylark Gran Sport, 1966 Wildcat Gran Sport, 1965-75 Riviera Gran Sport and the 1973-75 and 1986 Century Gran Sport and then the Regal Gran Sport and Skylark again…
About the Pontiac Grand Ville, it’s strange it wasn’t called Grande Ville as you can’t say “Grand Ville” in French. In French, words like “Ville” and “Parisienne” are feminine, “Parisien” or “Village” or “Prix” are masculine) and Grand needs a “e” at the end if it refers to a feminine noun like “Ville”.
Before there was the Gran Ville, there was a Canadian version of the Pontiac Parisienne which was called “Grande Parisienne”, this car was also marketed in many other countries but not in the United States. The Grande Parisienne was similar to the US Grand Prix (Grand Prix is correct in French BTW).
Here’s a picture of a 1966 Buick Wildcat Gran Sport:
Pontiac GTO, Ferrari GTO…
Volvo 245GL Grand Luxe
Don’t forget the Grand Wagoneer.
In the Japanese market, you could add the Nissan Maxima Le Grand, Nissan Maxima Le Grand, Nissan Leopard Grand Edition, Toyota Mark II Grande, and Grand Saloon versions of both the Nissan Largo and Toyota Master Ace vans. Oh, in the ’70s, there was also a Subaru Leone Grand Am!
Mazda Grand Familia
Was there another version of this car in other GM divisions?Could you save a few bucks and buy a Chevy or splash out a bit more for an Olds?
Pontiac was never the same after John DeLorean went,apart from the Firebird there was nothing else I liked at Pontiac when this car was new.The GTO was no longer the car it was a few short years ago,I never knew about the Grandville at the time and while it wouldn’t have interested me then it does now I’m older.Maybe it’s with watching all those late night detective shows that I like it as I’m sure I’ve seen it in a few
The 1973-1975 Grand Am was another bright spot, it should have been called the GTO, it almost was, but for some reason they wanted to kick the nameplate down market and they offered it as an option on the more homely LeMans. The Grand Prix’s even in the 1973-1977 Colonnade styles are interesting if properly equipped, you could still get honeycomb wheels, leather buckets and a tachometer with a 455 through 1976.
Thanks Carmine,will have to look for one at the next show
GTO branding meant higher insurance rates, so the name was made an option package. Collectible Automobile has pics of prototype “1972-73 GTO’s” with eventual Grand Am styling.
Gem,
Paul may correct me, but that was the point of the Grand Ville – you got a little body differential(wheel base and four door roofline) from a Chevy Impala without popping for an Olds 98 or Buick Electra
Thanks Jana,I may have confused it with a similar looking Chevy or Olds.
I think that’s basically correct. While Pontiac had never had a C-body, the longer wheelbase Pontiac B-body had typically used a wheelbase a few inches longer than the Olds and Buick B-bodies, serving as kind of a junior C-body. With its new model name and C-body-like roofline, the Grand Ville took things a step further in that direction.
Chevrolet had only one wheelbase, and it was traditionally a few inches shorter than the short wheelbase Pontiacs. Chevrolet never had a long-wheelbase model like Pontiac did. The short wheelbase Pontiacs were in turn traditionally a few inches shorter than the Olds and Buick B-bodies (which typically shared a common wheelbase). Olds and Buick never had a long-wheelbase B-body because they had versions of the larger C-body.
Without looking everything up, in 1971-72 things were something like this:
Chevrolet (B-body): 121.5″
Pontiac short wheelbase (B-body): 123″
Olds/Buick B-body: 124″
Pontiac long wheelbase (B-body): 126″
Olds/Buick C-body: 127″
Cadillac C-body (most models): 130″
Cadillac Sixty Special (C-body long wheelbase): 133″
Cadillac D-body (Seventy-Five): 151.5″
(Note: Station wagons were as follows: Chevrolet 125″, B-O-P 127″.)
When all Pontiac B-bodies went to the same wheelbase in 1973, the tradition of Pontiac having any unique B-body wheelbases ended. 1973-76 Pontiac B-bodies used the same 124″ wheelbase as 1971-76 Olds and Buick B-bodies (Note: station wagons stayed on the 127″ wheelbase, which was already shared with Olds and Buick wagons).
When GM downsized its full-size cars in 1977, things got further simplified. All B-bodies from all four nonluxury brands now used the same wheelbase, 116″. All station wagons from all four nonluxury brands also used the 116″ wheelbase. The Olds and Buick C-bodies were 119″, all Cadillac C-bodies 121.5″, and the Cadillac D-bodies 144.5″.
Buick did have a long wheelbase “B” body too. The 1965-68 Wildcat that shared it’s 126 ” wheelbase with the “C” body Electra 225. The LeSabre which had the same body as the Wildcat had a shorter wheelbase and length by 3″ (the wheelbase before the 1970s was 123″, not 124″). The difference between both models was between the length brtween the front doors and the front wheels.
I never knew that the 1965-68 Wildcat was a stretched B-body — I just assumed that it used the C-body during those years.
This shows how interchangeable the Buicks were: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/cohort-outtake-1964-buick-electra-cat-a-hybrid-of-a-different-sort/
What’s a C Body other than a stretched B Body? Nothing, really.
In 1965-68, the “C” body Electra 225 had a stretched trunk but it’s doors were the same as those of the “B” body models. So the Electra had a longer rear deck than the Wildcat and the LeSabre had a shorter front clip. The shape of the roof on “C” bodies was different and so was the glass but the doors on the LeSabre/Wildcat/Electra 225 4 door hardtop models interchange (minus a few extra holes for the chrome trim!). Before 1965 and in the seventies, the extra length of the long wheelbase cars was in the rear door to get more legroom for the rear passengers.
With the wheel base at 126 inches, you have the wheelbase of the Olds 98 or Buick Electra. The B body restricted the interior dimensions so additional rear or front seat space is not better. The Grandville was basically what the Bonneville had been or could have been with an interior upgrade. The additional wheelbase was probably of no real value in terms of ride.
The 1971-76 Olds and Buick C-bodies actually used a wheelbase an inch longer (127″) than the “not quite a C-body” Grand Ville (126″).
Whats funny is that they already had a Bonneville Brougham that had a very fancy interior from 1964 on. The Grand Ville could have just easily been the new and improved Bonneville Brougham.
I always liked the way the Big City married the B body to the C body roof line.
Familiar to me, too! My grandmother had a Grand Ville identical to the gold one (inside and out) in the brochure above, *and* the Albany/Schenectady exit was my way home for most of a decade.
I always associate the Grand Ville with the Buick Centurion, as the only full-sized GM model names created in the 70s – and neither made it to downsizing.
Great write up. They went to a lot of expense engineering this baby – special front fenders to take the added wheelbase, plus fitting the C-body 4 door roof. Somehow, it doesn’t feel like they got their money’s worth.
There was a time, though, when having the same body with two wheelbase lengths made sense, if you offered both a straight six and eight. Fairly common practice in the medium to high priced ranks.
I always suspected that if there was any advantage to a B-body stretched in front of the firewall, it was that the weight of a big block engine would not turn the handling to mush the way say, the 302 famously did in the 1975 Mustang II. If so, the expected decline of big-block V8s in the wake of the “energy crisis” (which started getting press a year or two before the Arab oil embargo) probably played a role in the demise of these models. But I don’t know if it made any noticeable difference, or if the engine was even any further back relative to the wheels in these cars. I’ll also venture a guess that the oblong wheel arches in the front fenders of so many early-1970s GM cars was to allow the same fender to accommodate two wheel positions.
Granville is a working class suburb near the end of Parramatta road in Sydney.
Grandville MI is 2 hours from Detroit, GM’s headquarters. Also, Pontiac MI is a far suburb of Detroit.
I enjoyed this article. I read it and enjoyed the photos. I read somewhere where they said the Grand Ville was a C- Body along with Oldsmobile Ninety Eight and Buick Electra. I always thought that it was a B Body. It is confirmed. I see now there are C Body parts and modifications. It basically was Pontiacs C Body in a way. It was interesting how the Grand Ville became top of the line, and then in 1976, Bonneville Brougham became top of the line using Grand Ville parts. It could be said later the Parisienne was like Grand Ville in the 1980’s and Bonneville SSE in the 1990’s and the 2000’s the Bonneville GXP was like Grand Ville.
Grand Ville was indeed a “luxury” Pontiac. Back then, the GM brands were companies inside of corporation. They operated as such. Back them trim levels were different cars.
I also noticed the tail lamps were different between Grand Ville and Bonneville in this 1970-1974 time frame too.
I often wondered why they dropped Grand Ville after 1975. Great article and photos too.
Between the 1973, 1974, and the 1975 model years, I prefer the 1975 Grand Ville. It has the best looking nose of the group.
I just ran into a guy with a really nice red Grand Ville convertible, it was pretty sweet to see that old whip in such great shape while still being a driver.
Owned a ’72 GV 4 door hardtop for a long time. Loved the long wheelbase and weird Super B baby C status. Was not a fan of the name. Bonneville should not have been debased and thankfully Pontiac recognized that by ’76.
In 1983, my high-school buddy inherited a 455 Grand Ville from his Grand Ma. He had a pretty much unlimited Union 76 card that got used more than once for replacing burned-out rear tires.
I think there are misperceptions about just what a B-body is vs a C-body. While the C is larger than the B in general, the real difference is primarily related to the placement of the A, B and C pillars. The B-body has the pillars closer together, making the interior smaller, while the C-body pillars are further apart making the interior somewhat larger. The A-body (after world war two) was smaller than the B-body and used by Chevrolet and some Pontiacs. The wheelbase is not controlled by the pillars.
C pillar styling is contolled only by the underlying structure. The mid seventies C-body C pillar style could have been used by any of the B-bodies as far as I know. However, the style was probably intended to make the top of the line models different.
I can’t look at one of these cars without remembering the chase scene in “The Seven Ups”.
A big +1!
It seems nearly all the surviving Grand Villes are convertibles, and way too many of those have been donked.
One unique feature of the Grand Ville (and ’76 Bonneville Brougham) sedans that I remember were the cigarette lighters for the rear seat passengers that were mounted on the sides of the front seat backs. Coupes and convertibles didn’t have them, nor did the Bonneville/Catalina….
That is cool. Somebody had a fun afternoon dreaming those up.
1973 Buick Electra’s had same ciggie lighters in the seatbacks/sides. They made sure smokers were comfortable back then.
Yep, donks and other candy-painted garbage has destroyed waaaay too many GM’s of this era. Yuck.
1975 Grand Ville Brougham sedan with photos.
http://arizonacollectorcars.com/detail.php?vid=379
So, if you could fit the C-body 4 door hardtop roof onto the B-body, that means there’s actually no difference in length between the two bodies at the beltline, from the A-pillar to the leading edge of the C-pillar. It’s the same inner body shell, and all the length differences among brands would come ahead of the cowl or aft of the rear wheels, from Chevy through Cadillac DeVille. GM did a good job of disguising that, much better than Chrysler and Ford products of the same era – those different rooflines helped. Or am I missing something?
I think that the Grand Ville is getting the C-body glass window put into a B-body C-pillar. The length of the roof is probably easily varied. As I understand things (and I may be wrong) the B-body doors will fit any other B-body (4 door model to 4 door model; 2 door to 2 door obviously). C-body doors are slightly bigger, but again Cadillac doors should fit the Olds 98 or Buick Electra. Obviously the outer skin wrinkles will not match up as that is what makes for styling differences.
If you look at the Olds 88 or Buick Lesabre 4 door hardtops, they have a glass window in the C-pillar. All that has been done for the Grand Ville is to use the window from the C bodies and styled the C pillar like the C body.
The CC effect is alive and well. I saw this piece briefly over the weekend but did not have time to read it. Then, yesterday afternoon I saw this car’s rattier twin (right down to the color) drive into a gas station. Where else? 🙂
I can identify that color as not red, not burgundy, but “Honduras Maroon”. My mother’s 74 Luxury LeMans was the same color.
The ’71 Grand Ville was brought out after DeLorean got “kicked upstairs” to Chevy. Pontiac dealers wanted to go after B-O customers, and also have a ‘move up’ car for Grand Prix owners. [my guess] But even then, I didn’t like seeing Bonneville reduced to the middle man.
Regarding the commonization of wheelbases, etc, this was GM starting to cut costs and move to badge jobs, since newer managers in the 1970’s only cared about getting a steady paycheck. [my opinion]
Excuse me… adjustable pedals??? I thought Ford invented that in the last decade or so. How did they work in Pontiacs?
As I recall them, there was a handle under the dash that you would push in or pull out that would adjust the pedals. Purely manual. I recall the feature pushed in 73 GM mid and full sizers. I dont recall seeing many with it.
I think this feature was offered only by Pontiac, not by other GM divisions.
That’s one feature I’d never have used, though I know some women complain about having to sit too close to the wheel in order to reach the pedals; maybe the proliferation of tilt-telescoping wheels since then has made that less of an issue. Anyway, there is one GM feature from that era I’d like to see revived: crotch coolers, those extra AC vents at the bottom edge of the dashboard. They had a similar effect to cooled seats, but cost a lot less.
There’s a great Facebook group called “The Brougham Society”. https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheBroughamSociety/706475409411816/?comment_id=706809309378426¬if_t=like