“That leather really did come from the town of Corinth, Italy…”
That comment left by CC reader Rando may seem innocuous—it’s actually quite funny, given the facts about “Corinthian Leather” and the ancient Greek city of Corinth—but it’s also a problem, especially when a prolific commenter like Rando repeatedly leaves comments that are verifiably incorrect yet presented as statements of facts. It goes against our commenting policy and standards, and pollutes our comment sections with misinformation. We pride ourselves on presenting accuracy in our content and are happy to correct our own mistakes. Comments are a place where readers can add to the contents with additional facts and information, as well as opinions, personal experiences and such but not false “facts”, as it essentially forces us or other commenters to respond to them with corrections.
I wouldn’t be posting this at CC if commenter Rando read the responses left to his comments or had left a working email address, so I’ll have to resort to hoping he reads this warning here.
I encourage all CC readers to read our commenting policy, and I’ll copy it here:
CC’s Commenting Policy: Commenting at CC is a privilege, not a right. We review and moderate all comments. We insist that all commenting be kept civil, without any personal attacks on other commenters, the site, and its writers/contributors. Also, we do not allow politicking/overt political comments, racism, misogyny, and any comments that disparage any groups in general, and/or are overtly negative or critical in a manner that becomes obnoxious, offensive, or tedious. Making statements of fact(s) that are clearly incorrect or simply expressing the same point of view repeatedly, even if it may appear inoffensive, can run afoul of our commenting moderation.
We want comments to contribute to the content of the articles, including additional accurate facts, information, personal experiences, and reasonable opinions. That can include civil disagreement with the content or other comments, but they cannot slip into personal attacks as described above. All comments may be edited, or deleted if they do not meet our guidelines. Repeat and/or egregious offenders will lose their comment privileges at CC.
We welcome your comments if they are germane to the article and other comments, but we do not welcome self-promoting links to your own blog or website, or to other sites unless there’s a compelling reason. (I’ve bolded the germane parts)
Here’s a few relatively recent examples of Rando’s “false facts” that run afoul of our policy:
“The carburetor shown is no where’s near stock… (1967 Mustang 390)”
“In all fairness to Lee Iococca, car prices were tripling over 4 years from CarterFlation at the end of 1970s, but wages weren’t, so that was the main driver of sales plummeting! ( I did my part and bought a new ’77 GP… LOL! … but couldn’t afford an ’81 GP at 3 times the price).” (A Graphic Observation About Lee Iacocca)
“A problem with 1980’s car sales was the massive inflation of late 1970s and early 1980s. Car prices suddenly tripled but wages didn’t,” (GM DS 1986 Riviera)
“As to the $22,000 Mercedes Benz in the ad above, you were paying mostly for shipping, importer markup, and dealer markup. It was likely about $11K in Spain and $8K in Germany with some hard bargaining.” (1978 Ford Granada)
“The 340 was a 1960s family car/truck performance engine. It came in 2 bbl., 4 bbl., and eventually tripower versions.” (1970 Duster 340 Review)
“That leather really did come from the town of Corinth, Italy…” (1978 Dodge Aspen)
I realize that this may all look harmless or insignificant to you, but we are a bit obsessive here about facts being correct—including in the comments—because if they are not responded to with corrections, it may lead other readers to think they really are facts and not garbage.
I tried to email Rando about this issue, but his email address is not a working one. So if you read this, Rando, please know you’ve been warned, and any further “false fact” comments will be deleted, and if they continue to appear repeatedly, you may lose your comment privileges.
I would like to thank all of you for helping to keep CC’s commenting sections such a civil place, unlike so many others. Yes, sometimes comments left here a bit nit-picky or overly eager to incite debate or quibbles, but overall the comments here add greatly to this site, a rich repository of personal experiences, exchanges of ideas and information, and sometimes even a welcome gesture of appreciation or support for the work of our contributors. Those are our favorites!
Now back to our regular scheduled programming…
You just NOW realized that anonymous internet commentors are usually full of shit?
As a matter of fact, quite obviously most CC commenters aren’t usually full of shit. Are you referring to yourself as one of the exceptions? (I see you decided to use an anonymous handle here instead of the “Larry Huff” that I had to ban from commenting quite a while back for obvious reasons)
Long live Curbside Classic!
Very thoughtful of you, to initially reach out to the offending poster, to try keep it discreet.
Thank you for creating, and coordinating, such a great site. Thank you!
I’ve never seen a big dual feed Holley carb, with dual metering blocks like that come on a stock slug version Ford 390.
I read an article that said the leather really did come from Corinth, Italy. Leather does come from Corinth, Italy, but apparently that’s not the source Chrysler actually used, they just stole the name.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1070707916/vintage-1970s-lambskin-corinthian
I bought a new ’77 Pontiac GP w/ V8 for $5500… 4 years later when I looked to buy a new ’81 GP they wanted $14,500 with a V6, said it would be difficult to get a V8 in because of the gas prices.
I’ve read articles back in the day explaining same model Mercedes Benz half the price in Spain/Europe. May have been before internet, so hard to find now, although I may have them in old car magazines somewhere around here.
???? The Chrysler 340″ was a real engine…
I’ve seen you jump nastily on other commenters here, is that part of your Hitlerite background you haven’t cleared out of your psyche yet? (OK, as I recall, you’re not feeling well lately)
Anyway, hope you have a nice Mother’s Day…
The Hitler comment should get you permanently banned. This hits a rare low in my years of CC reading. I’m the grandson of a conscripted WW2 German soldier, and Hitler’s tenure brought about devastation to lots of non-Jewish German families. Families were split through death and heightened divorce rates after the war. Frankly, this isn’t something to joke about.
You’ve proven to be a nasty individual who doesn’t need to be heard on this forum.
Corinth is in Greece, not Italy. A trivial amount of research makes that clear.
The Holley 4150 was the only carb used originally on the 1967 S-Code 390. If you look at the actual article scans, you can see it quite clearly.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mump-0910-how-to-identify-mustang-carburetors
There is no town or city named Corinth in Italy. You read garbage and repeated it. And that link you provided is for a leather jacket made in Canada.
The list price for the 1981 Pontiac GP was: $7424 for the base, $7803 for the LJ, $8936 for the Brougham. That’s an increase of between 35% and 62%, not “3 times as much”.
Mercedes had vastly more standard equipment and usually bigger engines and such on cars exported to the US, so any direct comparison to the versions they sold in Europe are irrelevant. A comparably-equipped model would not half sold for half the price in Europe; not even remotely close to that.
The Chrysler 340 never came with a 2 barrel carb.
I’m actually feeling just fine, except for having to deal with you. As to “my Hitlerite background”, please know that I am part Jewish and my grandfather was thrown into a concentration camp for his anti-Nazi writings at the time.
Ricardo Montalbán is on record regarding the true meaning of ‘Corinthian leather’, guesting on Late Night with David Letterman in 1987 (8:35 in the video below). He said ad exec Jim Nicholls (sp.?) “wanted to find a word that sounded sort-of elegant” to describe the leather Chrysler used in their cars. Later when Letterman asked “But does it mean anything?” Montalbán’s response was “Nothing”, further adding that it didn’t refer to any geographic area.
This is the carb. I’d expect to see on a ’67 Mustang 390 with automatic transmission:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113205896834
OK, the Corinthian Leather article was apparently all BS… possibly written by A.I. that can’t even tell what’s in pictures. It will talk about a SBC 350 and show a picture of a Chrysler Hemi. So much of the new stuff now is by A.I.
On the price of the ’81 GP, I may have been remembering the price of the Lincoln Mark V I had been considering. I know I was surprised by how much the GP price had jumped up for a smaller car with smaller engine, so I didn’t buy one.
I thought I had seen the later low compression 340 industrial engine with 2 bbl. carb. on an irrigation water pump…
Hope your grandfather survived his bad experience. My father and several of my uncles fought Germans in Europe in WWII. Fortunately they all survived.
Paul, this comment from Rando should seal the deal with him.
Yep. If it were my website, I’d bounce his ass. That was uncalled for. We’re guests in your house.
Paul,you have done a good job keeping the commentariat on track. Credit also goes to the community which usually conforms to the rules of your site and common courtesy. We all have our own personal points of view, and certain beliefs or prejudices when it comes to various topics in the automotive sphere. We also have gaps in our actual knowledge of automotive and historical facts and data. Then there is our faulty memories and nostalgia which can cloud our views. I have also, on occasion, fallen into the “Anecdote presented as Fact” trap when feelings have over ridden objective realities. However I try to present my best efforts when making comments. This site has given me a tremendous amount of enjoyment and I’ve tried to give a little back over the years.
It’s time to block him from commenting.
Rando, lol, Ebay listings don’t count for anything in the Legitimate Source Department. Pretty sure there isn’t even a Corinth in Italy. Try Greece. In the meantime, it’s fairly easy to verify that “Corinthian leather” was a marketing term coined by Chrysler’s ad agency, Bozell, in 1974 — to describe the leather in certain of Chrysler’s luxury models, prominently, the Cordoba. The ads themselves left open to inference that Corinthean leather was a premium product of indistinct foreign origin when it in fact was made by the Radel Leather Manufacturing Company in Newark, New Jersey… far from Corinth, Greece… or any other Corinth, real or imagined. Think Rich Hackensack Leather and we’re geographically closer to the truth.
Per a quick google, JD Power shows the original MSRP of a 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix was $7862, https://www.jdpower.com/cars/1981/pontiac/grand-prix/2-door-coupe, you’re telling us that GM was able to charge nearly twice MSRP? A similar search shows the MSRP for a Buick Riviera at $13,027, https://www.jdpower.com/cars/1981/buick/riviera/2-door-coupe.
Corinthian leather was a marketing term, nothing more, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_leather.
Also, from the item page that you linked: “Vintage 1970s Lambskin Corinthian Leather Jacket / Made In Canada”, are you suggesting that this was leather imported from Italy and assembled into a jacket in Canada?
I’m pretty sure, having read much of Paul’s collected articles for well over a decade, he’s about as far away from a Nazi as one could be.
Yuck.
+1 to Eric’s and KevinB’s comments. And also to Jose and Daniel and others here who note that one of the best aspects of CC is how folks on the site invariably comport themselves gracefully, respectfully and with a tremendous amount of bonhomie.
I suppose that this wouldn’t be the rule but for the rare exception.
First off, thank you Paul for clearing things up. I doubt I have, but will apologize here and now if I have ever commented in a negative or false manner. In fact, maybe the only one would have been on the recent Edsel pictorial where I wondered if you would have disliked jockeying those around even worse than the full sized Fords.
Second, I married a nice Jewish lady and so my children are considered Jewish as well. That Hilter comment is clearly not appropriate, but you and Rich know far better than me how to handle that.
Finally thank you for allowing us to write about our cars. Thanks to the many people who’ve sent comments along my way. I am a now fully disabled 62 year old man who has had both the privalidge and task of watching my in laws, as I’ve written about. Retirement with back issues can get boring and overwhelming so getting an email from Rich asking for another piece is priceless to me.
for all the Mother’s, Happy Mother’s day
but will apologize here and now if I have ever commented in a negative or false manner.
Chip, I assure you have never done so. Sure, we all make mistakes, but it’s the spirit of how things are said in the comments that makes all the difference. And how we react to corrections.
I do CC in order to learn. And I have learned more than I could ever have imagined. And you have taught me some important lessons in human generosity.
I am grateful Paul runs a tight ship here, and by and large, the vast majority of commenters are quite civil. I’ve learned so much from both the contributors and the numerous commenters over the years. Plus so many of you have a great sense of humor!
I’ve been here since the start of CC, and even before, I followed Paul on the other site. The latter has become a trainwreck with a cadre of far-right commenters repeating falsehoods and conspiracy theories ad nauseum with minimal consequences from the so-called moderators there.
So glad to have CC; it’s the first “fun” site I read every day (after checking personal email, finances, hard news headlines and the like).
Look, I’m seeing a lot of butt-kissing in these comments, that Hitler reference was downright disrespectful. But I have to agree with what Rando pointed out:
“I’ve seen you jump nastily on other commenters here,”
especially folks outside the U.S. At times, you come off as an arrogant know-it-all. Just keeping it real—don’t shoot the messenger.
As Stephanie will tell you, I do tend to be frank, which is something that can readily come across as arrogant. I own it. If people perceive frankness as “nasty”, I’ve had to come to accept that perceptions vary.
A bit curious as to it applying “especially folks outside the U.S.”. Hmm. I have noticed some commenters from Europe tending to apply a European perspective to certain American attitudes or way of doing things that can be misleading. Having spent time on both sides of the Atlantic gives me the benefit of understanding the perspectives both sides espouse, and I’ve see that applying those to the other side can lead to false assumptions. And that very much applies to both sides of the big pond.
So maybe I’m a bit hard on those that make false assumptions? But that sort of thing does grate on me a bit. It’s better to learn about other continents’ perspectives than make easy assumptions.
My only real regret is that Rando just got tons of supply from all this attention. Still, bon riddance, as they say.
Good article and I too will endevor to follow the rules and be nice .
-Nate
I’m of an age that tends to show the stereotype of a grouch old man is soundly grounded in reality. I feel entitled to say “Get off my grass”.
I can see where Rambler mavens might be offended by some of my past opinionated comments. I’d apologize – except I think every Rambler slur I’ve ever made is absolute gospel.
Paul,
How wonderful of you to call out the situation.
I couldn’t agree with you more if I tried.
Why does line 4 of the lyrics to Adele’s ‘Rollin’ In the Deep’ come to mind?
60+ and have not commented on a website in more than 25 yrs for privacy reasons – this deserves the exception.
“Preach it brother, preach it!”
~ p in Arizona