(first posted 10/22/2016) This bus may look familiar to you – like trying to remember the name of an old character actor who seems to be in every TV show or movie. Allow me to help – this is an ACF-Brill Intercity (IC) Model 41 (passenger) coach, built from 1946 to 1954. The reason it may look familiar is, as reflected in the IMDB database, it has appeared in at least 35 separate movie and television productions. But before reviewing its filmography, let’s take a closer look at this last model from a company with a rich transportation history; providing products for both rails and roads.
American Coach and Foundry (ACF), which produced motor coaches, and Brill which at one time was a major provider of trolleys and interurbans, merged to form ACF-Brill Motors in 1944. Post war, they were one of the many bus manufacturers to prosper as transit operators quickly began replacing their war-weary fleets. The company produced both urban transit (gas and electric trolley) and intercity models.
Greyhound
Trailways
The IC 41 was the company’s most popular post-war intercity coach, coming in second behind the GM Silversides (GM PD 3751/4151 and 4101/4103) in overall sales – and was purchased by both Greyhound and Trailways, along with other smaller operators. It was 35 ft long/96 in wide, and as with all of the company’s coaches, the engine was mid-mounted, under floor. It was also unique in having its front door behind the front axle, with a passenger seat to the right as you enter, directly across from the driver.
1946 Model
1950 Model
There were few changes during its eight year model run – early models had the headlights in pods, then in 1949, they were more cleanly integrated into the front fenders. Later models also featured a full-width grill instead of the earlier smaller version.
But what made this coach a stand-out – and what ultimately led to its downfall, was its engine – the great Hall-Scott Model 190 – an OHC hemi-head 779 cu in horizontal 6 cylinder gas fueled power-house making 240 hp and a locomotive-like 600 lb.ft. at 1000 rpm. ACF had purchased Hall-Scott in 1925 and used its engines in all of its models. With this engine, these coaches could reach 80 mph – much faster than the 6-71 diesel-engined GM Silversides models. In fact, stories abound of IC 41’s departing bus terminals after GM’s, and then passing them on the highway – to the delight of passengers.
While speed is certainly a virtue, economics rules in the transportation industry and with an average MPG of 2-3 gallons (compared to 6-8 for the diesel 6-71), the writing was on the wall. IC 41 sales dwindled as GM conquered more and more of the market. The nail in the coffin was the introduction of the “game-changing” GM PD 4104 coach – a quantum leap over older buses such as the IC 41. Losing money, Consolidated-Vultee, then ACF-Brill’s parent company, discontinued bus production in 1954.
These Brill’s, however, live on in film as they appear to have been a mainstay in motion picture and television back-lot fleets – here are a few productions they were seen in…
1954 – Carmen Jones with Dorothy Dandridge and Harry Belafonte
1955 – Picnic with William Holden and Kim Novak
1956 – Bus Stop with Marilyn Monroe
1958 – Some Came Running with Frank Sinatra
1964 – TV series The Fugitive with David Janssen
1989 – Great Balls of Fire with Dennis Quaid
Examples of ACF Brill C-series and Crown Touring Coach
I unfortunately have never had the opportunity to ride in an IC 41 – but while visiting the island of Kauai in the mid 80’s, did ride in an ACF Brill coach. At that time the company that ran the Fern Grotto boat tour had several small early-1950’s refurbished C-27 Brill coaches that transported passengers back to the entrance after the tour. I wish I had taken a picture of them. Also while in Hawaii, there were several large Crown touring coaches – these all had Hall-Scott engines. They were easily recognizable – a big, deep bass rumble from the under-floor gas engine – if you stood close enough you could feel the ground shaking.
Great post. I’ve always liked the style of these coaches with their forward mounted front axle. Here’s an oddball within the brand. It’s the 1950 ACF ICO-X-001 deck-and-a-half prototype. It’s the only one they ever built and actually saw revenue service for a while with Trailways….
A contemporary picture postcard promoting it….
…and looking a little shabby as it approched the end of it’s days with Penn-Jersey Coachways.
Penn-Jersey, huh? Right in my old neighborhood, Gene! Very cool bus.
Just wanted to put it out there I believe that is my Grand Father’s Bus.
If I’m Not mistaken my Grand Father Owed Penn Jersey Bus Lines.
His Name is William Powelson.
Just wanted to leave that comment.
Thank You
Brian Powelson
Your are correct Brian, our grandfather owned Penn-Jersey Coachways. My dad attempted to bring that, one of one deck and a half ACF Brill, from Dallas, but the engine failed somewhere in Arkansas. I think the bus was transported to Gloucester City and subsequently repowered.
You are correct Brian, our grandfather owned Penn-Jersey Coachways. My dad attempted to bring that, one of one deck and a half ACF Brill, from Dallas, but the engine failed somewhere in Arkansas. I think the bus was transported to Gloucester City and subsequently repowered.
The late Bill Powelson and I were great friends for years. I was a pallbearer at Bill’s funeral.
I was only 9 years old when he passed. I’ve been told that he was an interesting man who was instrumental in the bus business. I wish he were around longer so I could have heard his stories.
I own one of the 1949 AFC BRILL. It slept 10 people and my parents carried us 5 kids to many gospel revivals in it. Those were the best days of my life!
I know the bus you’re talking about. I lived in it for a while. Spent many nights in that old bus when my dad ran revivals at your parents church. Good memories.
John Plant those were the days! Right? You have a lot of memories that are remarkable to me. We had fun and I think when we get to Heaven there’ll be a big Greyhound Bus waiting for us (or a Rambler station wagon) 😝
I just saw an old HIghway Patrol episode with an IC-41. Spent a while trying to find out who built a “Niland” bus. I had been fooled by the destination sign above the radiator vs above the windshield.
I just saw that Highway Patrol episode. I also searched in vain for a Niland. Thanks for the post.
ACF is still a manufacturer of railway rolling stock ?, owned by Carl Icahn. ACF-Brill was a subsidiary?.
That bus indeed a standout. It caught a child’s eye because of its design. The curved, wrap-around windshield, gave it a progressive look. Unfortunately, I never rode in one but the transit system for which I would one day work, rostered 100 Brill trolley buses and I did drive one. They were sturdy and very quiet.
My Dad drove those ACF Brill Busses for “Campus Coach Lines” from NYC back in the early 1950s. He did Charter “Road Show” work and loved the way they handled in snow and bad weather. Unlike the GMCs which were lighter on the steering axle. Thanks for the great article.
I really liked riding in those ACF Brills in the early 50s. No other bus let kids ride in a seat right up next to the windshield. My ride was usually from Del Mar, CA to Encinitas or back for 15 cents.
Great detailed article as always Jim. The ACF-Brill IC 41 appears to have significantly influenced the design of the Western Flyer C-40 coach, as a number of design details are consistent.
As a child of a military father, I recall the Canadian Forces maintaining these Western Flyers well into the 1970s. As my grade school always used Armed Forces Western Flyers for field trips and charters.
I’ve run across a bit on these, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen their raised-roof version. And they call it “Scenic Cruiser Service”. Gee; I wonder why?
From the 1970s, I don’t recall ever seeing the raised roof T36-2L in Eastern Canada. According to Wikipedia, it was only manufactured for one year in 1955. The ‘C-40/T-32’ design on the left was the model I recall riding. And appeared in Canadian Armed Forces livery well into the 1970s. Though it seemed their use by then was as a less than front line general purpose transport.
This is the same bus I was on as a Cadet going from Montreal to Valcartier in 1969 and it was our Transport going to Connaught Ranges.
The ones DND used had wire mesh on the outside of the windows. Was it to keep us from taking off?
They were seen on The Andy Griffith Show too.
I vaguely remember seeing one or two of these on the East Coast int e mid 60s, but they were mostly gone by then. Handsome buses.
And yes, I promise to do a Hall-Scott article this winter. It’s a terrific chapter in American engine building prowess.
The only motor manufacturer with a Spanish Colonial style factory, in Berkeley no less!
I think the office building fronted on Seventh St. Part of the old plant still stands around the corner on Heinz.
Hall-Scott never developed a successful diesel, so their business withered as the market moved to diesels in the 50s. Unable to find a cash buyer, ACF spun H-S off around 55. H-S was then bought by Hercules, which promptly closed the Berkeley plant and moved the specialized H-S equipment to the Hercules plant in Canton, OH. Herc then let the H-S brand run down over the next several years.
Hercules itself went out of business a few years ago and the city of Canton is trying to redevelop the old plant complex.
Is that building still standing? I was so surprised when I saw the ACF-Brill ad listing the Berkeley site for Hall-Scott. As a Berkeley native, born in 1956, and knowing about Hall-Scott engines in adulthood, I never new this company had been part of Berkeley’s industrial past. Fabco (4wd utility and agricultural trucks) from nearby Emeryville, and Fageol then Peterbilt (Oakland, then Newark), GM (also Oakland), and IH and I think Caterpillar in San Leandro, were all parts of Alameda County’s automotive history that I knew about, but not Hall-Scott.
By the way, was the Hercules that bought H-S the same Hercules that formed the eponymous company town just a bit north of Berkeley in Contra Costa County?
It’s still there, at Ashby (I think) and San Pablo. In addition to the companies you mentioned, the Faegol brothers also built trucks and especially busses in Emeryville, or maybe Berkeley, with H-S engines, and I think Doble (steam cars) were built there as well. Don’t know about the town of Hercules – could also be Hercules Powder Co, one of 2 anit-trust spin offs (with Atlas) from DuPont in the 20s.
I forgot about Doble steam cars; in fact Abner Doble was an alumnus of my high school, albeit 60 or so years ahead me. His company, like Fabco, was also in Emeryville.
A little late but to your question, no. The region was first used by the California Powder Company to produce it’s patented formula dynamite, which they called Hercules in 1881. The Hercules Powder Company was incorporated in 1882 and assumed responsibility for the Hercules site. There were a whole host of small explosive manufacturers along the Pinole shoreline. Traces still left. The company town that grew up around the Hercules Powder Company became known as Hercules and incorporated in 1900
The picture posted by Mr. Swarz is of the H.J. Heinz factory, for which “Heinz Avenue” is named.
http://berkeleyheritage.com/berkeley_landmarks/heinz.html
Hall-Scott was at 2850 Seventh Street, as noted around the corner on Heinz some of the factory still stands. 2850 Seventh is now a low-rise office building, built later. Here’s an interesting article about a visit from Lord Halifax to Berkeley to visit Hall-Scott.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/13/berkeley-a-look-back-atom-smasher-construction-starts-at-uc-in-1941/
The IH plant was in Emeryville, though I know not where, as was a Fisher Body plant at one time, parts of the Fisher Body plant still stand, it’s right across the street from Pixar. Mack Trucks had a plant just down the road in Hayward, CA that lasted until 1980.
https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/830-what-models-were-built-hayward/
Most of the MacCauley Foundry, right around the corner from where Hall-Scott was, is still there, though the foundry itself closed in the early 2000’s.
That’s where Hall-Scott engine blocks and the Ruckstell Axle components were dast, as well as for many years the blocks for the Offenhauser race car engine.
Please do, and if you want I can send some info about the one-off Invader-engined Kenworth truck…
Riding in them was even better
Paul,
I am looking for my parents buses. The little Brill, maybe 24’, was a Garfield, NJ intra city bus before my father’s MH conversion. He bought it in. 1968. The othEr was the big Brill, maybe a iC-41, 1954?)also MH conversion. In service as a road warrior in the Deep,South. My father owned it from 1970-73 in Rutherford, NJ
Any ideas on how I would locate them? I doubt they are still on the road. But, I’d still like to find them. I’m looking for pictures now.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Kevin
Appreciate your entries every week; this one made me think of Sullivan’s Travels, but no cigar…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ofxELr5sa4
Nope. I believe that’s a 1933 Pickwick Nitecoach Highway Sleeper with a modified grille. Great movie, BTW.
There is a great multi-clip series here of a 1948 ACF-Brill being saved for restoration:
American car and foundry also made subway cars for new york city transit
In the 1930 s
I’ve seen plenty of images of those buses, but never knew the maker’s name (ACF-Brill)–thanks for the informative article!
Is this the same bus as in your first pic?
Hi Sally – they could in fact be the same bus – the one I used in the first pic is a restored model that may belong to the Greyhound historical fleet. The pic unfortunately didn’t provide any details. Jim.
I found an old industrial film produced by Hall-Scott on youtube..
part 1
Part 2. Hall-Scott engines tended to be overhead cam hemis because H-S was building aircraft engines before WWI and carried those design elements into the truck and marine engines. When Packard and Jessie Vincent were trying to claim all the credit for the Liberty engine, which Vincent co-designed with E J Hall of Hall-Scott, Hall’s reply was that, when they sat down to design the Liberty, he had personally built more aircraft engines than Vincent had even seen. Looking at Vincent’s early attempts at aircraft engines, they bear little in common with the Liberty. On the other hand, the Hall-Scott A6 looks very much like one cylinder bank of a Liberty.
Part 3
Part 4
Fascinating. A time and place when cost was no object. Too bad H-S didn’t transfer that engineering and manufacturing prowess into a line of diesel engines.
Thanks for the video series about the construction of the Hall-Scott engine. Now we know why these power plants were so well received by industry. They were built with the highest standards of race engines and military demands. I had no idea a gasoline engine could last for two million miles or more.
I know of a running Hall-Scott powered ACF-Brill Bus for sale. I wish I had the time, space and funds to restore it. It would be well worth the effort to preserve such an engineering masterpiece.
Nice article about simply _beautiful_ coaches .
Air conditioning in Greyhound in 1948 ? sweet .
I have a friend who drove Crown Coaches in the early 1970’s they had two with Hall Scott engines that flew and only the best drivers were ever allowed to drive them .
Fast but THIR$TY ! .
-Nate
Billed as Super Coaches, air conditioning was actually introduced on the pre-war 1937 Yellow Coach 743. This model was also one of the first using monocoque construction and rear mounted diesel power. Needless to say, this quantum leap in passenger comfort caused a sensation in the business.
It sure would have been ‘ sensational ‘ in the 1960’s when I sweated my way around the East Coast in various old coaches none of which had AC or maybe because they were rinky dink third tier bus lines they didn’t bother maintaining it .
-Nate
Crowns had non-synchromesh gearboxes and a lot of them from that era had twin stick transmissions. It took a lot of time to learn how to drive them smoothly. I was good with a five or ten speed crash box but never attempted to drive a twin stick model, though we still had a couple in the fleet.
I drove for Embree Buses in Pasadena California in the 1970s. They had several Hall-Scott powered Crowns. They were very fast. In time, several were repowered to Detroit 6-71s. Those were also fast buses. I think it was the trans and gears. I think the Detroit’s were limited at 2100 rpm, but it’s been a while since I sat in one.
Then you prolly knew my friend Steve who’s exploits in the Hall-Scott powered Crowns remain legendary .
-Nate
Nate, I knew of a Steve at Embree. He may be a pal of Bill Morgan, also an Embree driver. The last name eludes me at the moment. I was young then. Not so young now…
Now this is what I meant when I voiced my critic of current US-made coaches: these had style and were world leaders. Some further examples here: http://theoldmotor.com/?p=142146
Fantastic-looking buses–that’s a stylish way to travel. And with 600 lb-ft torque, a stout one also!
Interesting and informative article. One comment, the Crown Coaches you saw in Hawaii may have had a big 14 liter Cummins diesel. Crown made busses and fire trucks with both engines. I drove Crown school busses for LA Unified for a number of years to pay for college and those old Cummins powered Crowns didn’t sound a whole lot different than a Hall Scoot. The tell tale difference was the Hall Scotts misfired on deceleration, big booming backfires and pops. On acceleration and cruise both sounded pretty similar but I would have had to have been there to know. A three axle Crown with a turbocharged 14 liter Cummins and a Fuller ten speed was probably the best school bus ever made. I have been away from that for almost forty years but I still see Crowns and an occasional Gillig I drove in use by LAUSD to this day. That’s some longevity!
Of course ;
The Hall Scott engine ran on _Gasoline_ so on one ever confused the two .
-Nate
Great posts. I was privileged to drive Crown and ACF Brill buses when I worked for Embree Buses in Pasadena in the late 50s and early 60s. Most had Hall Scott engines, but we also had some Cummins diesels They were all great buses to drive and were probably the strongest buses ever built. One disadvantage of the brill when compared to the GMT 4104 (which were also in our fleet) was the lack of convenient storage for luggage. Because of the mid mounted engines, they lacked the storage space under the floor that was a distinct advantage for the 4104.
Bob Lee Sent.
The first over-the-road job I had was driving a Brill from Oakland to Travis Air Force Base in 1959 at the ripe old age of 18. I was employed by Eastshore Lines out of Berkeley, CA (home of Hall Scott motors). I learned quickly that Brills would go like hell, but had lousy brakes. They would backfire mightily when rolling down a long grade in third gear.
Henry Markwart
Wow; driving a bus at 18! You wouldn’t likely see that today.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
they actually had slightly larger brakes than 4104’s. Stopped fine if brakes were in proper condition.
Here is another model ACF-Brill made, the C-31. I used to own this bus; now it is in the Museum of Bus Transportation in Hershey, PA in its original school bus livery.
We bought a 1951 ACF Brill in 1974 and converted it to a motor home that slept 8, drove it all over Colorado, the coast of California and Oregon. In the the 1990’s I took out the insides and the AC channel in the top so that my 6 ft 5 in son-in-law could stand up with out knocking the lights out, at that time I converted it to propane and had intended to redo the couch for just myself and my wife to use. But you know what happens as you get older, you slow down and pretty soon time has past. It is now going to an auction in Sacramento and will hopefully go to some one that will put it to good use again. It was a great ride with the old bus.
A very informative place by the author and readers. The small city I grew up in purchased a fleet of Brill trolleys in 1948. They were fantastic. There were also one or two Brill gas coaches for reserve. My neighborhood had a large number of high school students and the Brill gas bus was used in the mornings. The idea was good, however the bus was very long to travel residential streets. Every driver struggled with the shift from first to second. It never got to third because the stops were close together.
I own a 1949 AFC BRILL. My parents used to take us to amazing places across country to Gospel Camp Meetings. It slept 10 but there were only 7 of us (mom and dad and 5 kids)
I have a 1948 IC-41 that is worth restoring. Silver sides, all glass intact. Seats long gone, as well as the Hall-Scott. I flat towed it to where it waits in California. I don’t know that I will ever have time to do anything with it myself. Greyhound sure did a nice job with theirs. Any interest?
It was purchased new by Southeastern Greyhound Lines. I have a vintage photo of it and will have to reference the bus number.
Perhaps there is a way to get that photo and a current one onto this site.
Just bought this old bus, haven’t had time to get it running, but it was supposed to run. I haven’t been able to find a VIN tag or data plate either, anyone know where it should be? Looks like it has a 6 cylinder mack diesel engine with Jake brakes and a twin stick transmission. The back end also looks like it opens up like it was a toy hauler,
Do you have a picture of the bus maybe I can help
Hi Aarron, did you have and luck finding your VIN tag or build plate? I have the same issue with my 1947 Brill IC41.
Have found a woman who is wanting to sell
(By best research) a 1947 AFC-Brill.
All in-tact and in good condition with bus # on front corners and greyhound logo on back
Last guess for running was about 10 yrs ago.
She is looking for an interested party who would give her a fair price. If yall would know of someone she could talk to it would be greatly appreaciated
I rode on ACF Brill Greyhounds most weeks from Del Mar to Encinitas, CA in the early and mid 50s. The fare was 15 cents and my brother and I vied for that coveted front seat. Then they were replaced by silversides.
My high school’s bus barn burned down in about 1949 and the buses were replaced with four Crowns, a Gillig and a Studebaker. The routes serviced by the Crowns were rotated each year to keep the usage even and the Gillig had an obvious problem with the gear shift coming out as well as other maintenance problems. But the Crowns never suffered a problems. I think the Crowns remained in service for years after I moved out of the area and I also years later thought about converting one of the ACF Brills, but I’m in my 80s now and that is simply one of those things that never happened.
Great information. I’m glad I took the time to read all of this. I am forwarding the link to my pal who is a retired NJ Transit Maintenance Supervisor.
Regarding the front passenger seat opposite the bus driver, my family lived for a year in Alpena, Arkansas in 1951-52 when I was 5-6 years old.Several times, my older brother and I had occasion to ride a similar Trailways bus to visit my aunts and uncles in Leslie, about 60 miles south along US 65. When boarding each way, if that seat was empty I would politely ask the driver for permission for us to sit there. A few did not want to be distracted by two kids across from their driving position, but I was able to ride right behind the big windshield several times. We were always well behaved, and it was a great treat for us, especially for me.
I am looking for my parents buses. The little Brill, maybe 24’, was a Garfield, NJ intra city bus before my father’s MH conversion. He bought it in. 1968. The othEr was the big Brill, maybe a iC-41, 1954?)also MH conversion. In service as a road warrior in the Deep,South. My father owned it from 1970-73 in Rutherford, NJ
Any ideas on how I would locate them? I doubt they are still on the road. But, I’d still like to find them. I’m looking for pictures now.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Kevin
Click to Edit –
I’m sorry but I have no idea. If they still exist, it’s not unlikely that one or both ar rotting away in some weed lot or back woods.
Love reading these posts. Pic here is my ‘48 IC41 in its lifelong restoration and hotrodding exercise. Brand new every single thing. Built for speed, we’ve topped 100mph a couple times with plans to go much faster. If the photo loads (and I’m authorized to post here) I’ll add more to the story.
Please resize your picture and try again .
I’m keen to see your rig .
-Nate
Hey, Nate,
Didn’t realize the pic it was calling for was just the avatar. Or maybe not, but seems like a one pic limit.
Unit was a Southeastern Greyhound Lines running intercity in Tennessee & Kentucky. Spent a couple years in Los Angeles (alleged to have had some screen time) before being RV converted and traversing roads to and from Costa Rica and Belize. Bought it in Austin, TX from the guy that drove it back to the U.S. We regrettably junked the poor-running Hall Scott and converted to a Big Cam Cummy from an Icarus scrapped in Harbor City, CA. Thought I was inventing it at the time though clearly now I’m aware of multiple other similar re-powers. Anyway, it’s an every nut and bolt resto with upgrades all around. We’re super fast, super light, and geared super tall, so easily did 100+ with the 4-sp Allison and expect 130+ with the 6-sp version. Kind of a life’s work, still underway.
You can attach images to comments, but they need to be reduced in size to some 1200 pixels in max width or height.
Paul, thanks.
Is it one per comment? I’ll resize some to post.
-sb
Yes. Awesome. Must be a bit breezy in there at 100 without any side windows?
100 MPH in _that_ ?! .
YIKES .
-Nate
It’s great seeing articles on vintage buses. I don’t know a lot about them, but there are so many examples of attractive or at least interesting designs. Even as a kid, I remember seeing a vintage bus set back a bit from a rural intersection in Manitoba, slowly returning to nature. I can’t remember where though…that was ages ago. The back looked at lot like that IC 41 but I imagine a lot of buses looked similar back then. I’d like to think it was saved.
In 1968 I was able to walk a rural New England Junkyard that all the way in the back had several retired 1940’s buses, I climbed in and was gob smacked to see the entire interior was cloth and in VGC .
No rips / tears and no one had defaced anything .
-Nate