2011 Nissan Leaf
When all you need is a “station car” for your short commute a Leaf’s not a bad choice. The 2011 was purchased in January 2020 when my younger daughter got her driver’s license and sold in November 2021 when we bought our second Bolt.
2013 Nissan Leaf
The 2013 was purchased this past March when our oldest got their driver’s license.
My wife believes that newest driver should get the newest (safest) car. So both Leafs have been her daily driver. She has a 15-mile round-trip commute so the limited range of the Leaf is enough. The 2011 was the SL Trim. It had the navigation system, cruise control and Photovoltaic Solar Panel Spoiler which were standard on that trim level. It also had the 6.6 kW onboard charger. The 2013 is the S Trim and lacks the navigation system, cruise control, and Photovoltaic Solar Panel Spoiler. My wife misses the cruise control even with her short commute. I miss the navigation system, it allowed for more granular control of the charge timing.
Per a comparison at www.evspecifications.com the EPA says that the 2013 is a smidge more efficient. EPA/CMB for the 2013 is 27 kWh/100 mi. EPA/CMB for the 2011 is 34 kWh/100 mi. My wife’s experience says that the 2013 is less efficient. This is probably influenced by the poorer condition of the battery and the fluctuations on the accelerator pedal when you’re not using cruise control. I know that with ICE vehicles I’ve owned I’ve seen as much as a 10% reduction in fuel mileage when not using cruise control.
2011 Nissan Leaf Range
When new these Leafs had a real-world range in Houston of about 90 miles at a full charge. Our 2011 at an 80% charge indicated a 72 miles of range. It also showed 11 out of 12 bars on the battery health meter. What we didn’t know until we went to sell it is that the original owner had succeeded in getting Nissan to replace the battery under warranty at 33,065 miles. Had I known this I might have held onto it longer.
2013 Nissan Leaf Range
Our 2013 at 80% charge indicates 55 miles of range. It shows 8 out of 12 bars on the battery health meter. AFAIK this is the original battery. The 8-year battery warranty ended in 2021. If it were still under warranty the 2013 would be eligible for a battery replacement at this level of degradation.
I got lucky with my first Leaf. When I started shopping for the second Leaf I learned about LeafSpy. This phone app is currently supported on Android phones. There is an IOS version that’s been in Beta for a while that requires you to Download TestFlight and enroll in the Beta. If you’re interested in the IOS version go to page 51 of the iOS LeafSpy Pro support thread on the Nissan Leaf forum. You do not want the version that is in the IOS App Store. This application will let you evaluate the state of health of the battery on a Nissan Leaf. I consider it an essential tool and would not purchase a Leaf without using it.
Google Maps shows my son’s dorm at UT Texas at 164 miles from our house. PlugShare shows one DC charging station that has a CHAdeMO connector along the route. It’s a smidge over 70 miles from our house. The 2011 could probably get there. The next leg is 93 miles. As A Better Route Planner puts it: “There is no viable route plan”. My 2017 Bolts can get to Austin without a charge stop.
Among the reasons that my wife prefers that the kids drive the Bolt is that the visibility from the Bolt is better. The “A” pillar and “C” pillar are both smaller and the Rear Window is larger on the Bolt. As a result, the blind spots are smaller. The Bolt also has blind spot detection, at least in the Premier trim that we bought.
I don’t like the seating position in the Leaf as much as I have in other cars, but the seats are more comfortable than the seats in our Bolts.
At the price point for an entry-level in-town BEV it’s hard to beat an older Leaf. We bought the 2013 for $5500. (I paid less for the 2011 three years earlier but that was in a different market. By Nov 2021 I was able to sell the 2011 at a profit.) When we were shopping this past spring we looked at a similar vintage Chevy Spark EV. It was twitchier on the road, offered about the same range, was not as comfortable, and was twice as expensive. Newer Leafs, Sparks, and BMW I3’s were also available, Bolts were still scarce. All of the other alternatives were more expensive than the comparable vintage Spark and didn’t offer significantly more range unless you went for a used Tesla. A new Bolt would have been more affordable than a used Model 3.
We’ve contemplated replacing the Leaf with a newer Bolt, but my wife is only a couple of years from retiring (she’s eligible now) and the Leaf should meet our needs until then when we can downsize by one car.
The current market for EV’s always seems to be about range, range, range, with a secondary emphasis on charge rates (which I tend to consider more important, yes we own two Bolts). Because, of course, nobody ever takes an EV out without having to drive through at least five state lines, while equipped with an iron bladder that ensures never having to stop anywhere other than taking care of the needs of a pathetically weak automobile (no matter what the propulsion system).
It’s forgotten that well over 90% of our daily driving is nothing more than a 15-20 mile commute, easily handled by a ‘compliance car’ EV using Level 1 charging, as long as the car is plugged in whenever it’s parked at home.
I originally looked for exactly what you’re driving: A used Leaf with ten or more bars left on the battery. Figured it’d handle what I was planning on doing transportation-wise, all my daily transport that didn’t include re-enactment trips and motorcycle travels. The problem was finding a used on in the Richmond area back then, I was starting to seriously consider Caravana, when a pair of Bolts popped up at a local independent lot on my daily bicycle route. The rest is history. Hey, fully half my annual re-enactment trips are now handled via EV.
Regarding the Chevrolet Spark: I love that little car, in my initial searching it was my alternative to the Leaf (see Caravana). One of the guy in my local car club (Drive Electric RVA) had one for years, was very happy with it, then the battery started to seriously wear out.
So he hit the local Chevrolet dealer, which is the go-to for Chevrolet EV’s in the Richmond area. They got back to GM and received the answer “Tough. We’ve dropped all support for the Spark. He should be driving a Bolt, anyway.”
What GM didn’t know is this guy, over the years, has been very active on social media, has his own EV adoption influencing firm, and does a lot of podcasting and written work, with a fairly large audience. Of course, within 24 hours after getting GM’s reply he goes public. In detail. On every platform he’s got available to him.
Within 48 hours, GM had gotten back to him, and suddenly there’s a battery available. Surprise, surprise, someone at GM had figured out this is not exactly good publicity if you’re trying to convince the marketplace to buy one of your EV’s in the future. It does make me wonder what luck a non-EV-influencer would have getting support.
I still love the Spark. I tend to shy away from them because I’m not exactly sure what kind of parts support they’re going to have in the future.
Just curious would that be Colonial Chevrolet (formerly Heritage Chevrolet) in Chester? They have a decent selection of chargers that are accessible 24/7. I charged there twice last summer on my way to & from Williamsburg (from Houston) with my Bolt.
Rick Hendrick Chevrolet/Buick/GMC in Short Pump. They got the good reputation because they were the first dealership that actually assigned EV sales to a well-trained salesman six years ago, and had an EV trained mechanic always available for about the same amount of time. Which is a huge difference from the other dealerships north of the James. Oddly enough, their public available charger has been down for a while now, although you can use the one normally set up for the service department. It’s not a big deal in that area since there’s about four other available non-dealership chargers with a mile radius.
I’m almost embarrassed to admit I know very little regarding the dealerships in the Chesterfield/Chester/Petersburg area – I rarely cross the James, unless I’m heading off somewhere way further south.
Hendrick has a BMW dealership on the south side of Austin, TX that’s all in on EVs. They’ve got three DC chargers and several level 2 chargers that are free to use, even though they no longer show up on PlugShare. When I day trip to Austin to pick up or drop off my son that’s where I usually charge. They are very hospitable. If I ever consider buying a BMW they’ll get the first shot at winning my business.
Heavily restricting (or even prohibiting, entirely) public station use at EV dealerships seems very short-sighted (to me, anyway). In the short-term, from a straight-up, business perspective, yeah, it may cost the dealership a little to let other makes (or even the same make) charge there.
But the long-term benefit seems way more lucrative. Say 100 people use the station, and out of that 100, only one buys a new vehicle from that dealership, but that purchase was based entirely on the goodwill of having been able to freely use the charge station in the past.
Seems like the small cost for letting those other 99 people use the station to get that one, solitary sale, the profit gained would more than make up for what it cost to let those other 99 charge.
Long term? I swear some Chevrolet dealerships never heard of the term. My local (Luck Chevrolet in Ashland) is a prime example. No EV’s, no interest, and they shut down the publicly available Level 2 Charger that was installed in the Volt days. PlugShare has removed them from the list. Grapevine has it that they’ve told GM they will not accept EV’s on the lot.
These were the guys who tried to push me into a Trax when I stopped by to ask about a Bolt back in ‘19. Been in business since 1914, wonder how much longer they plan on being around.
Dealerships eschewing EV sales is a gamble, that’s for sure. There’s very little profit in EV sales (for either the dealership or manufacturer). Couple this with some locales where EVs are a hard-sell compared to ICE vehicles (typically smaller, rural areas), well, it’s no surprise that some dealerships won’t carry them.
But GM is pushing them for the long haul, so dealerships that decide not to handle them (as well as installing accessible EV stations), do so at their own peril. GM can easily withhold allocations of profitable pickups and SUVs to those dealerships who won’t take accompanying EVs.
It’s also strange since, even though the profit margin is low, the remaining, soon-to-be-discontinued Bolts are hot-sellers that don’t last long on lots (provided the dealerships don’t go with outrageous ADMs or high-priced, dealer-installed package extras).
So, some dealerships are playing a game of installing the stations, but keeping them locked or blocked, just to get the EVs to keep getting the other, profitable vehicles.
I actually saw a very weird situation at a couple of local Chevy dealerships owned by the same guy. The first has been open for sometime (decades) and has not one, but two DCFC stations (a low-power Delta and a brand-new Blink that isn’t yet powered).
I suspect the reason was simply to be able to receive EVs and, indeed, I just saw four Bolts at one of the side lots.
The second dealership is also brand-new but, oddly, doesn’t have any EV stations (at least not yet). Even more strange is that this brand-new site is where they moved the four Bolts.
So, the old dealership has EV stations, but none are powered, and the inventory Bolts were moved to the new, sister dealership without an EV stations. Very strange.
I think it’s interesting that you don’t talk much about the driving experience. It’s either that your writing biases to the technical side (nothing wrong with that) or… there isn’t much to say? Not much character to talk about?
It’s both. I’m very much a technical guy who likes to wrench and there isn’t much to say about the driving experience. It’s rides and drives pretty much like every other econobox that I’ve driven since the 70’s. I also don’t have much driving experience with the Leaf it’s my wife’s car. Between these two Leafs and others that I’ve driven I only have a couple of hundred miles behind the wheel.
The first gen Leaf was basically just a rebodied, electric first gen Versa, so the driving characteristics are “basic car” in that it goes, stops, and turns. The extra weight of the battery and the electric torque are the only influences. It’s tall, narrow, tippy, has tires with tiny contact patches… the weight helps it be less susceptible to crosswinds (Versas, Aveos and Yarises all suffered horribly from unintended lane changes due to someone in a nearby county sneezing). The Versa’s standoudlt feature were the shockingly comfortable “Amazon lounge chair” seats. The Leaf lost those but got more traditionally higher quality car like seats.
Just not much to talk about driving wise with most the early compliance EVs. They were all cheap subcompact cars with technically advanced drivetrains bolted in. Livable modern commuter car was the engineering goal, not so much driving pleasure.
“(Versas, Aveos and Yarises all suffered horribly from unintended lane changes due to someone in a nearby county sneezing)”
LOL, back in 2009 I had a two week meeting in Denver and had a Yaris as a rental car. Twice (the one day I took it on the highway) I felt like it was going to flip when I was passed by an 18 wheeler. I probably actually put more miles on that Yaris then I’ve personally put on the two Leafs we’ve owned.
The worst of the bunch, despite being mechanically excellent and insanely well made, were the 3 door Yaris with longer doors. The door would pull away from the body in certain pressure change situations like high winds and big rigs passing. The most stable of that era of econocars was oddly the Accent/Rio, which seemed much better planted. Most of that class of car had cheapo versions with no center armrest, but Nissan was the stingiest with even well optioned Versa SLs coming without one. Abysmal to drive long distance.
It’s amazing how a little bad publicity can get results, and GM blowing-off the owner of GM’s first production BEV effort with a severely degraded battery and initially offering no help is exactly the sort of thing the EV-haters love to tout.
With that said, really, the Spark could be lumped into the same group as any other orphan car where parts can become scarce. In an EV’s case, there is something of a cottage industry that refurbishes EV batteries for the 1st gen Honda Insight, as well as old Priuses. I would surmise there is something similar (if not already) for other makes and their EV models.
To that end, it’s one of the silver linings of Nissan lagging so far behind on improving the Leaf over its lifetime (which will soon be drawing to a close). In effect, other than one major styling change for 2018, it’s remained largely the same from its US introduction for 2011. So, parts scavenging from/for older Leafs is surely the best of any old BEV.
In fact, the Leaf can be a very cost-effective way for many to enter the BEV ‘experience’. As stated, the two main BEV concerns are range and charging speed, neither of which has ever exactly been an early Leaf’s strong points.
Still, as the OP’s article highlights, with the low price of admission, an early, slow-charging, short-range Nissan Leaf (where the battery hasn’t degraded too badly) can work for many people with a short commute and a place to charge.
I’ve personally met a few people with early Leafs. They definitely are tech-savvy people and use Battery Management System (BMS) apps like LeafSpy to constantly monitor and manipulate their vehicle’s battery to optimize performance and charging. It would seem daunting, at first, but it’s really no different than anyone with an older ICE vehicle who just wants to keep it running at the lowerst cost.
But, yeah, these guys are constantly popping open their laptops in their cars while they’re at a public EV charge station, monitoring and manipulating their vehicle’s battery cells.
The air cooled battery is a double edged sword. It’s been proven to be inferior to the liquid cooled variants to the point that the Leaf is the only car still using that setup. On the other hand, the Leaf is the only car so far that’s had a cottage industry started to refurbish battery packs easily and (relatively) cheaply. To the point that if you’ve got a reputable battery service place in your area, it’s worth buying a Leaf with eight bars or less – if you can get it cheaply enough. And usually you can.
I was just posting on an EV forum about the ‘up to’ (30%) $4,000 used EV federal tax credit opening up the possibility of someone buying a really cheap, old, degraded battery Leaf and, combined with that tax credit money, being able to install a replacement battery in the Leaf to create a serviceable, used BEV.
That scenario would go a long way to slamming the EV-haters who claim old EV batteries (as well as the cars themselves) are not recyclable and just as bad for the environment as ICE vehicles.
Except that it won’t. I long ago realized that in any car forum there are a breed to whom improvements in EV’s will never be enough to make the cars acceptable to them. If they have stated set parameters and an EV beats their standard, it will suddenly have changed to something new, ensuring the EV still fails.
Most anti-EVers play it safe by demanding 0-100% charge in five minutes or less. I still have a couple of guys on that other site telling me that I cannot possibly be running an EV without major inconveniences and concessions on my part. The reality that I’ve been doing that is pointedly ignored.
And if all else fails, there’s the claims that all that electricity is made by coal fired plants with no pollution equipment, and all those 10 year old children dying under slave conditions to mine battery elements.
You must be referring to the “trombone repair people” over on Ars Technica. I’m fairly active over there in the EV and space threads. I’m a big fan of Eric Berger.
Can’t deny it’s fruitless to debate. I’ve gotten to the point whenever one of the haters immediately begin with the latest Fox News/Big Oil propaganda, I simply say, “Look, if you want to believe all the FUD, don’t get an EV” and end it right there.
It definitely falls into the category of the old adage: “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
The talk of EV’s is all very exiting, but it reminds me of talk of the metric system coming to the USA in the 70’s. The education was there, this was the wave of the future, and the interstate highway signs read in miles and kilometers. Then the wind changed. Changing winds can affect many things and they did. Metric was dead. Good luck using your 9/16” wrench on your 2023 new car.
I’d like to hear the details of the new ‘Spark’ battery, maybe even a part number as there has to be more than one out there that could use a new battery .
I am shocked a ten year old Leaf is only $5,500 .
-Nate
See my above comment regarding Leaf batteries. The relatively (compared to the competition) short lifespan of a Leaf battery has been instrumental in driving down resale value of those cars. And too many area have yet to see a battery rebuilder.
Zack (the Spark owner) is up in DC for the EV Expo this weekend, so I don’t expect to see him at car club tomorrow, but the next time I catch him I find out the details on P/N, etc. It’s a shame, because that Spark is a very good little car, most people who have driven them prefer them to the first generation Leaf. The biggest drawback to finding them was they weren’t sold in Virginia when new. Essentially a California compliance car.
CC effect: just saw this article about the old, derelict AMC headquarters building in Detroit being demolished and the site turned into a GM EV battery warehouse:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-turn-amc-old-headquarters-210000421.html
Thanks for this real-world look at the realities of how even low-range EVs can be used very successfully.
Stephanie’s driving patterns 99% of the time are perfect for a modest EV: just errands and such in and around Eugene. But she drives to the Bay Area a couple of times a year (560 miles) and is not the type that would tolerate several longer charging sessions along the way. A plug-in hybrid would be an ideal choice (and essentially the inevitable one) unless it’s an EV that can make the trip reliably with one charge session (Tesla, mostly, for now).
Honda Clarity or 2G Chevy Volt (ideally, a 2019 with the 7.2kW onboard charger).
Paul, from what you’re describing, a Mitsubishi I-MiEV would work for Stephanie, and that’s about as short a range EV as you can get. They’re nowhere near as bad a car as the grapevine would have one believe. And the Level 1 charger would do the job.
Ha! Stephanie in an I-MIEV? Not in my lifetime. You don’t know her; she has certain standards. Switching from her TSX Sportwagon to an electrified tin can is not going to happen.
You must not have read my whole comment, as I said she drives to the Bay Area several times a year (560 miles). An I-MIEV would be about the worst possible choice after a Zap Xebra.
I’d rock one, for my around town errands. But then I also like to drive way back in the woods to remote trail heads.
Stephanie is thinking more along the lines of a Volvo crossover, in terms of styling and amenities. Possibly an EV, but the charging issue to the Bay Area still has to be considered. If Volvos get access to the Supercharger network, that would make that more feasible.
Volvo EX 30
https://www.caranddriver.com/volvo/ex30
Salbert:
I am considering buying a 2023 Bolt LH2. Other than predatory dealers, is there anything I should be concerned about?
A brother in law bought a ex JDM leaf perfect for his commute 20km each way but the range was only some 100kms Ive driven it and was kind of impressed but the navigation and other toys are in Japanese language and dont work here, one of the traps in ex JDM cars, Eventually the range became a problem when driving the leaf any kind of distance lack of charging facilities and lack of range kicked in so he now has a Tesla and the petrol Corolla got given to my daughter as it never got driven with two EVs in the driveway.
Bolts were tried down under with Holden badging but that entity has evaporated now.
I am so glad for this thread about real life economy BEV’s. I have no use for 400hp 0-60 i three second street vehicles, electric or ICE. My usage analysis shows it is not for me, but not closed minded about it. Honda Fit (manual trans) costs me double in fuel cost vs friends Model Y at California priced for gas and elecricity. Trading in the Fit for a used Bolt would not pay for itself in a very long time at my low annual mileage. I dont think I would enjoy the techie satisfaction that you have monitoring your cars with apps compared to the viseral engagement of driving a stick, but I do use the simple dash gas mileage aid to best EPA estimate by a huge margin. NOT a hater and always interested hearing about real life EV experiences. We did try CNG a long time ago but it did not catch on. Will hydrogen? I doubt it, but we shall see over time.
A BMW i3 REX is what we have been driving the past 5 years. BMW comfort, great around town range (weather dependent) and with the flip of a switch (after coding), that little 600cc motorcycle engine generator will keep the car rolling on the highways at 75mph all day long.
I thought the plural of Leaf was Leaves, or does that not apply to cars .
The plural of leaf is leaves. But ‘Leaf’ is a proper noun. Therefore, the plural of a Nissan Leaf is ‘Leafs’.
The same applies to other car names like Mercury, Chevy, etc.
The Nissan Leaf was the first normal person’s EV because the 2011 market was basically “compliance cars” oddities like the Think City and garbage like the Zap Xebra.
I have a friend who’s a Leaf enthusiast having owned or leased at least four that I know of.His first was in 2011 and it was the top spec so we got to listen to the infotainment system read us Slashdot posts, once. He then had a used one and IIRC another used one after his Think City was totaled and a leased second generation Leaf. That one was the clincher because he could drive form Portland to Redmond (Oregon) on a single charge. I think he hasn’t owned an ICE car in five or six years now.