We’ve been slagging pretty hard on GM lately, so let’s try something a bit different today. Obviously, Japanese cars overall have a better than average rep for reliability (although I’m sure some would object). The object today is to identify the worst Japanese cars, primarily in terms of their reliability and/or durability, although styling, performance and other features are all part of the equation. Now I realize most of them were quite prone to rusting back in the 70s and 80s, so that’s probably a pretty universal quality. The goal is to create a “10 Worst Japanese Cars” list.
One important caveat: Please stick to the actual cars and their issues, keep it civil, and let’s not get into stereotyping their drivers or into related politics. The topic itself should have plenty of scope without diverging needlessly. Thanks.
Most early – 80s Nissans – Pulsar , Langley , etc. Was never fond of that 120Y either….
I kinda liked the old ugly Datsuns of the 70s. They ran and handled surprisingly well maybe because they looked so bad…especially once they started rusting, which they did quite a lot of.
The Datsun 120Y was extremely reliable. You could thrash the crap out of it and even get it to 100mph and it would survive. Damned ugly though. When I was in Zimbabwe in 2000 I saw tons of 120Ys on the road in Bulawayo. Couldn’t believe it. Like going back in time. They were everywhere. And in good nick.
These were probably manufactured beyond the date in the rest of the world for this area, This is pretty common in developing countries, VW did it in south america, Fiat in Turkey, and I am sure in alot of other countries.
They were probably in good nick, because they weren’t actually old.
My best car ever was a $ 40 120 Y wagon, named Dirk (after the big D on the steering wheel)
Dirk”s locks did not work, Dirk Always hauled British car engines and parts for my and my friends exotic but Always broken English cars and sportscars, and Dirk never failed to start with a foot of snow on its hood, other then my dad’s 2200 Princess HLS or our neighbour’s Rover whom Dirk had to jumpstart every morning.
Dirk was never moody, needed zilch maintenance and did its job for over a year and a half, driven by my entire flock of friends.
Dirk died when one of them got drunk behind the wheel and drove Dirk right through a red brick wall.
My cheapest and BEST car ever !
I don’t know a whole lot about Japanese cars. I will stick to one model that I do know a little about.
Early 80s Toyota Celica Supra.
First, it was not a bad car. In fact I actually like it. However…
It was considered an alternative to a Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, or Nissan Z. It actually had equally poor fuel mileage as the alternatives with less performance and the purchase price was not attractive for what you got. So what caused it to become so popular? I don’t see how a comparison shopper could ever choose it.
You’re talking about the 1981-85 version I take it? Considering the performance of the Camaro, Mustang, and Z in the early 80’s, I doubt the Supra was that far behind. Compared to the 4-cyl Mustang or Camaro, they were far ahead. Plus distinctive styling and far better build quality, and I presume better handling than the Camaro or Mustang. So, even if you might lose a drag race to a turbo Mustang or Z, or a V8 Camaro, it could still be quite the compelling choice I’d think!
Well, I had to look up the years because I could not remember them. The car I had in mind I guess was 1978-1981, according to wikipedia. I thought this one was in production a little later than that. The design seems to have started out ok. The right size and shape and all…a lean no-nonsense look. But the car is just a little bit too heavy and the engine just a little too weak and the price a little too high. Toyotas always were heavier than they looked like they should’ve been.
The first, A40 Celica Supra/XX was a lazy thing. The 2.6- and 2.8-liter versions were slow enough that the even less powerful 2-liter JDM models were probably pretty miserable.
Wikipedia doesn’t have correct information, most of the time… there were NO 1978 Supras… the 1st year for the Supra was 1979.
I don’t think that in the eyes of the consumer it was really an alternative to those muscle cars. I think the press may have portrayed it that way, but those who bought one were just looking for a sporty Japanese car. I had an ’83 Celica (not Supra) and, rust notwithstanding, it was one of my favorites.
OK
So you are telling me Supra buyers were too dumb(or closed minded) to do any comparison shopping then? They just wanted a Sports car with the word “Toyota” on it. Never mind that a V8 Mustang with twice the engine and acceleration got the same gas mileage. I actually like the look and design of the early 80s Supra but the performance is too low and the price too high as compared to the competition.
One word: reliability.
one word
rustbucket
Mustangs have been in my family for years, and I am of the opinion that a V8 Mustang is one of the most reliable cars you can buy. My dad’s owned an ’88, a ’99, and a ’12, and they’ve all been almost trouble-free. And they don’t rust badly if you take decent care of them, even in Michigan.
I confess I quite liked the Celica Supra,another car I’ve never thought about til now and realise it’s a very long time since I last saw one
Toyotas were rustbuckets in the 80’s, I think that’s what he was saying. Mustangs weren’t great as far as rust goes but they weren’t bad compared to anything else back then.
I liked the 1982-1986 Mustang LX 5.0 5speed notchback. It was the best deal for the money of any performance car available and it looked pretty good and could be made to handle pretty good. It was reliable and got good mileage for its engine size.
It said “TOYOTA” on it, that’s why. I wanted one badly, but didn’t have the means. Settled for the Corolla GT-S instead. Didn’t really have to settle much.
I had a girlfriend with a 81 Datsun 510 Hatchback. Rust rust rust… in Louisiana! There were actually two of those in our high school parking lot. I did take the initiative to patch the two holes in the roof of her car so she wouldn’t get wet when it rained. I think the final straw for that car was when one of the lower control arm bushings gave way (or something like that).
Wow, rust holes through the roof?
Why not? My dad’s ’74 Vega GT’s roof rusted out 😀 !
Japanese cars up through the mid 1980s would rust if parked next to a garden hose. Roof holes were very common on these in warm, salt-air tropical locales like Guam and Hawaii . . . . . .
Unfortunately I haven’t yet owned a technically bad Japanese car. As for ugliness, the ’70s Subaru Leon, Datsun F10, & Toyota Tercel L10 rank high .
Datsun 120Y F11 was certainly a minger.
A truly horrid car even before they started to rust
Any number of Suzuki’s halfhearted attempts to make a compelling car for the US market might be worthy of the list, as none ever seemed to hit the mark. The Aerio might have been an okay little runabout, and the Kizashi actually had a lot of potential but the damage was already done. Most of their earlier attemps were both lamentable and forgettable.
The 80’s/early 90’s Swift wasn’t that bad, either, but was so overshadowed by the Geo Metro-badged variant that it might as well have been invisible.
The cars that ruined Suzuki’s US prospects were the Verona and Forenza. They weren’t actually Japanese cars though. They were Daewoos from Korea. The Forenza was a rebadged Daewoo Lacetti, just as the Chevrolet Cruze is a rebadged Daewoo Lacetti today. Fortunately for Chevrolet, their buyers’ expectations weren’t as high.
+1
Yep. The Forenzas were a pretty sorry excuse for a mid-2000s car. They hit beater status on the roads lightning fast, about as quickly as Chevy Aveos did (fitting I guess).
I always kind of liked the Verona though, mainly for the the bizarre factor of having a straight six engine in a ’00s mid-size sedan. (cool, but… wtf?) Pretty sure it’s the only modern Camcord-class car that came with one.
Suzuki X-90?
They had weird names in the UK Suzuki Baleno! Baleno sounds like something you caught from a fling with a sailor
Isn’t it a type of whale?
hehe.. yep! yer have the baleeno, the spermo, the greato, the blueo, and the righto ..all whaleso every one
Kisashi is a decent car. Oddly enough suzuki was supposed to have pulled out of the whole north american market yet the local dealer (Halifax, Nova Scotia) has a bunch of 15 suzuki models on the lot. They must not have got the memo..
I put a vote in for the Datsun F-10.
wow! i love it!
F-10 (Cherry in other markets) . . . . . UGLEEEEEE – but – drivetrain was pretty robust (a sideways, OHV Nissan Four – descendant of a BMC four).
The F-10 immediately came into my mind. How could Nissan follow up with its home run 510 with such a string of abberations?
Different engineering team?
I’d say the Datsun F10 deserves a spot on that list based on the fact that they had to install one of those fans usually installed on the dash of cars to blow air over the carb to prevent the fuel from boiling in the carb in traffic or after you shut down on even moderately warm days. The F10 also earns a high score in the ugliness dept. It does get an A rating for being the second easiest clutch to replace on an automobile just behind the Honda 600. The NIssan Van and its similar problem with engine compartment heat, at least in the US versions, that led to them being recalled and crushed should also earn it a spot on that list.
If rust is considered then just about every Japanese vehicle from the 70’s should qualify though in my experience Toyota cars weren’t as bad as those from Honda and Datsun.
Suzuki Samurai – for obvious reasons
Toyota Echo – goofy styling and a sales disaster
Mitsubishi Endeavor – sales flop, odd styling, underpowered, lack of updates
Just off the top of my head
Conversely, the Echo was very popular in Soviet Canuckistan.
The Echo hatch (never sold in the USA) had very nice proportions, especially in 4-door hatch form. It reminded me of a Peugot. It was a complete contrast to the frumpy styling of the sedan.
http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2004-echo-hatchback/
Hmm I didn’t know the echo was a sales disaster, since they seem quite common in Canada. Yeah we’re 90% the same, but the 10% that’s different is REALLY different.
I’ll vote for the 1970 Toyota Crown. A handsome car, but the only car in my extended family where someone had a flat tire, the lug nuts were rusted on and all 4 studs snapped off, leaving them VERY stranded at the side of the road.
From Wikipedia, here are the sales stats for the U.S.
“United States
2000 – 48,876
2001 – 42,464
2002 – 30,859
2003 – 26,167
2004 – 3,899
2005 – 1,544” (still produced for the 2005 model year; not carryover ’04s)
Maybe “disaster” was a poor choice of word, but comparing these to what a larger, more expensive Corolla sold, it was pretty bad. Also, its successor, the Yaris, sold 70,308 U.S. sales in 2006.
Interesting, couldn’t find any CDN sales data on the Echo, but at a glance first year Yaris sales were 1/3 of the USA and we have 1/10th the population.
Yeah it’s a challenge convincing us Americans to buy small cars. It’s hard to explain, but I guess when you’re used to a car, it’s hard to go smaller. I’m 5’7″, 125lbs, and single, so space is no issue for me. That said, I’m driving a mid-size car and at this point would never buy a compact car. It’s just a personal thing, but I feel like many people tend to feel similar.
It helps if the small car is sporty and/or cute and the Echo really wasn’t either. Looking like a dumpling did it no favors.
Yeah I always thought the Echo fit the definition of “clown car”
Toyota also made the front-seat area of the Yaris *conspicuously* roomy, enough to make both an immediate and a lasting impression (the latter to the Corolla’s detriment…)
Home as well as US-market needs probably fed into that, given the tax advantages of a keicar you need to give people a reason to trade up to a B-segment, but it certainly helped here.
That still wouldn’t make it a bad car. Also the Yaris/Belta focus wasn’t the U.S. it was and still very successful in countries of Southeast Asia, and mine, Chile. It has lived on for some three generations, and now has different bodies in different markets,
Hi Ramon. Totally off this subject but I would be very grateful if you could clear something up for me! I have been to Santiago 4 times and always stay at the San Cristobal Tower – I get them to send a car to pick me up at the airport and it is usually…..a Samsung! Looks like a KATHE Nissan, but it definately says Samsung. I have never seen Samsung cars anywhere else! Do you know what this is based on and what is the link between Samsungand Nissan/Renault? Actually, I just got back to Australia two days go, after another ride in a Samsung in Santiago!
Hi Ashley! The answer is yes, there were Samsung cars. These were based on the Nissan Maxima, and called Samsung SQ5. They sold well here.
After the Asian Crisis Samsung decided to sell their car business to Renault Nissan. Their cars were still Korean-made versions of Nissan cars, the most popular here the Renault Samsung SM3, based on the Nissan Bluebird Sylphy, and mostly used as taxis. They are in some countries sold as Nissan. For a while, a Nissan version was sold at the same time here, as Almera, but they are way less common.
The successor of the SQ5 is the SM5, and its more expensive version, the SM7, both are basically the same car, a Nissan Teana made in Korea. Both are sold in Chile (the Teana was also offered but very few were sold).
All these Renault Samsung cars have seen updated versions in Korea, now paired to Renault cars. But Renault Nissan has decided to sell these as Renault here, and has kept the Renault Samsung brand here for the older, cheaper, Nissan based models.
I’ve always felt a big reason these cars failed was they were just too bare bones for the times; power windows, locks, or keyless entry simply were not options (at least in the US). As pricey as they were, this was not the case for the previous Tercel.
The Echo did not fail. It sold well all around the world.
Echo was Toyota’s Henry J or perhaps AMC Pacer.
Echo was odd but the people that owned really liked them. I knew a girl in college who told me that you would be surprised at just how many people you could fit in one. Always thought of them as a Tercel with a cuter name.
Hahaha, they’re called the Platz here in the home market (I live in Japan). You see them from time to time, but every time I see that name in chrome letters across its trunk all I can think of is farts.
“Suzuki Samurai – for obvious reasons”
Inexpensive, lightweight, dependable and capable little 4×4 that can scrap offroad with the Jeeps. Easy to maintain and modify, and has a huge following today.
Nope, sorry Bud. Try again on that one.
I agree the Sami was a good vehicle.
+1
I owned two of them (a story I’ll tell one of these days), and loved both. I drove them ‘vigorously,’ and they never felt tippy at all.
+1
I nominate the Datsun B-210…but maybe that’s because a girlfriend had one and I had to fix it whenever it went awry, which was often.
It was also ugly. The Datsun, not the girlfriend.
The “Early 80s Toyota Celica Supra” caught my eye. My sister-in-law had one. I can’t give it bad marks because it gave her little or no trouble at all for years in Pennsylvania, until it finally rusted apart. But I blame that on Pennsylvania, not the car, whose lifetime before turning into brown flakes was about averagel though since it was PAINTED brown to begin with, the rust didn’t show!
The Toyota Avensis 2.2 D4D D-Cat. Turbo, head gaskets, SCV-valves, injectors. Lots of these engines had to be rebuilt or replaced prematurely.
Toyota and state of the art (common-rail) car-diesel engines just don’t go very well together.
The Toyota Avensis 2.2 D4D is the car of choice in Mauritania, they are brought in the country from all over Europe, these are considered the most sturdy cars to endure harsh driving conditions,
The 2.2 D4D D-Cat was the 177 hp high-performance version. At its introduction it was the most powerful 4 cylinder car diesel. The standard 2.2 D4D had 150 hp.
The most common Toyota car diesel was and is the 2.0 D4D, meanwhile lagging far behind when it comes to power and torque numbers. Several Toyota models in Europe have a BMW-diesel now or are getting one in the near future.
Also, the Avensis… Made in England!
….and designed by Toyota’s design studio in France. At least, gen 2 and 3 (the current model).
I don’t know about the first gen Avensis, which was the successor of the Carina E.
Wasn’t the Suzuki Samurai supposed rollover problem another hoax by the media or Consumer Reports?
I don’t think it was a hoax, but I think CU overstated things. The Samurai was a light, small, high-clearance Jeep-like vehicle, of course it’s more likely to roll! So is an overloaded F-150; drivers should be aware of their vehicles’ limitations.
IIRC, the test procedure was a bit on the rigged side, not inconsistent with other examples of CR testing to a desired outcome.
Mitsubishi Diamante
I still cannot believe they made them up to 2005
+1
I don’t know if they were all bad cars, but the worst car I’ve ever owned in terms of the problems it gave me was an ’88 Toyota Celica ST. Granted in was 12 years old when I got it, but still, it had less than 130k on the clock. My Dad’s crappy Skylark made it 216k in the same time frame and was mostly trouble-free.
Problems I had:
-Constantly slipped out of 5th gear
-sunroof leaked freezing cold water on my head whenever I took a turn
-heater core shot
-accelerator would stick
-blew threw ignition coils like a drunk through a six pack
-engine ran so hot, you could fry an egg on the hood in January
-embarrassingly hard starts
-accelerator would stick, forcing me to apply brakes very often , causing fade
What you describe here are not uncommon issues for a 12 year old car with high mileage. You did not know the history of the car when you bought it.
In the case of your dad’s Buick, you knew the history. Makes a BIG difference.
Really? We’ve never had any problems with our 2000 Diamante. It’s the best, most reliable car we’ve ever owned. Never let us down.
I came here to say Mitsubishi, although I was having trouble limiting it to one specific model. I was going to say Eclipse because there were so many of them a few years ago, and now, here where rusts never even wakes up, there are none. However the Diamanté is a good answer too. I had one as a rental once and not only was it burning oil, the interior was breaking apart.
To reinforce the argument for (against?) Mitsubishi, here’s a link to the “Top 111 consumer complaints against Mitsubishi”
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/mitsubishi.html
To finish the argument my Japanese wife works for Mitsubishi International (separate from the Car Division) and could get us a pretty good discount- except she refuses to own one.
Good question. A few that come to mind:
Datsun F-10, most certainly.
Early Mazda pickups, including the Ford Courier.
Mazda RX-2, beyond the engine, did anyone stop and notice how bad the rest of the car was?
Though not a bad car, the Datsun 610 has a certain 510-meets-Gran Torino quality about it. Not good!
For styling, the Datsun B-210 fastback that a former supervisor bought. It was pale metallic green with an off-white vinyl top. It had tan seats and door panels, and black instrument panel and steering wheel. It had wheel covers with a honeycomb-looking pattern. A remarkably ugly piece.
Japan Inc should read this column and smile.
Gather a bunch of hard-hitting gearheads and ask them to name some bad Japanese cars.
Well, there’s … uh, no. And then there was the … nah, not all that bad. How about? Misadvertised but not a bad car. We can all agree on … Nope.
Apart from the overarching theme of rust, that is.
I am inclined to agree with this statement. As bad as a lot of the cars mentioned might be, there’s no Landcrab, X-body or Vega type fiasco any of us can point to.
They also weren’t selling in nearly the numbers of American cars at the time, largely due to chintzy sheetmetal, cramped interiors, and a small dealer network.
Nissan bought back their combustable vans at one time. That seems worse than anything I can recall from the Big 3. Toyota trucks became known for sludge and frame rot at one point. There are others too, they just didn’t get much publicity due to their small market share at the time. Contrast that to the acceleration issue once Toyota gained popularity here.
80’s Subarus with awd. Traction would break loose entirely without warning in a corner. They may still be this way, but these days it’s much harder to approach that limit.
Late 70’s Mazda 323(?); I’m thinking of the immediate predecessor to the GLC model. Rwd sedan, 4 cylinder. It was so bad I’ve almost completely blotted it out of my memory.
And the early 90’s (?) 3 cylinder Subaru Justy (though I didn’t experience this one myself).
That would be the Mazda 808.
“808” – that was it, thanks. In fairness, mine was significantly used before it was inflicted upon me.
A question. Was the AWD system in those old Subarus supposed to be activated on roads? I remember some old AWD cars advised to engage it only on rough terrain.
I do remember reading in the early Subarus that the AWD was not for use in dry pavement
Yes, the pre-Legacy Subarus had 4wd without a centre differential, although I suppose there may be exceptions.
And many had a dual range system. Meaning its actually a proper 4×4 system….it just works ‘backwards’ from traditional system in that its fwd biased as opposed to rwd.
Agree on the Justy – had a 90 4 door with less than 100K when the engine started failing. And, it was miserable to drive for commuting … my previous car, an 82 Datsun 210, was much easier and comfortable to drive, even with it’s vinyl interior compared to the Justy’s cloth – mostly due to very harsh ride. On top of that, I was expect 40+mpg and it barely topped 30 … I took a loss just to get rid of it (and ended up with the best car of my life as a repacement, an ’82 Accord).
I nominate the rotary-engined Mazda Cosmo (original) for most time spent off the road for breaking down. It also had miserable acceleration for a sports car.
+1, yes also a poor all around car.
Datsun F 10 and the late 70s US spec 200SX. Those bumpers were pathetic. Also early 70s Toyota Carina.
Any Mitsubishi; by the time they got to the repair shop, it was always 3 or more things wrong with it. Carb, electrical, and some kind of mechanical issue was the usual trio. You’d find the obvious one early, tell the customer what and how much. Then after that was done, you’d notice something else, call the customer and get that done. And then a third time for good luck.
This was stuff like a carb needle and seat leaking massive amounts of fuel. You could look down into the carb and see it dripping. After you fixed that and it still didn’t run right, more time and find the intake manifold gasket that was leaking, which kind of compensated for the carb flooding, Hated seeing them come in, because it was always going to be a struggle with the owner…Japanese carbs in general were not the best, Mitsubishi ran a Mikuni on the 2.6 that used a wax pellet to open the choke. When it quit working, it was $150 for the top of the carb that contained the wax pellet. And that was 25 years ago money….
Yep…My Mom’s 1979 Plymouth Arrow. Which was a a captive import from Mitsubishi. Stalled and/or hard to start at the most inconvenient times. Also went through starters like crazy!
Had an ’81 Plymouth Champ, bought used in 1985, based on rave reviews by Car and Driver. But these were not Civics, and fell apart like a Vega.
Mitsubishi’s had its fair share of duds, but in General, buyers could count of them to be up to date and assembled well, even if they didn’t match your average Honda for powertrain durability. Their troubles today are a legacy of their late start in the US market as an independent brand, along with the Asian financial crisis of 1998.
You know, most of you are commenting on appearance not performance. It is hard to criticize the reliability of any Japanese cars in recent times but it is easy to criticize styling. However, most Japanese cars were way ahead of European and American cars in terms of interior styling. For example, take a 90’s BMW and compare it to any Japanese 90’s car, of any brand including Diahatsu (bare-bones auto maker) and the Japanese car will win out in leaps and bounds over the BMW’s aircraft cockpit looking ugly interior.
Growing up we had an 89 Mazda 323. Six months into our ownership, the transmission stopped working.
Also had a friend’s 84 Camry break a timing belt with less than 70,000 miles.
It’s supposed to be changed every 10 years or 100,000 km.
I know, but these cars have such a reputation for standing up to abuse and neglected maintenance. 70,000 miles is just over 112,000 Kilometers. I have seen a lot of them go to 150,000+ miles on the original timing belt without failure.
NOT timing belts. NEVER defer a timing belt. If you have seen a timing belt go 150,000 miles, that was a very lucky car owner.
Just so ! .
I have taken off the belt cover on a few elderly engines to find maybe 50 % of the belt left , a wonder it handn’t snapped .
-Nate
At that time, in the US, the recommendation was 60K or 5 years.
Datsun 120-Y was hideous, but reliable, until the rust claimed it.
Suzuki X90 can also be nominated for its comedy value.
How about the early Honda Accord and Civic with the CVCC engines. The first was bad, and I was stupid enough to then go buy the Accord. My ex had a ’72 Vega, which was worse, but not by much. I’ll never understand the love for these significantly flawed Hondas.
Definitely. The vacuum diagram makes me want to run quickly before I trip over it!
Looks like a wring diagram for the Space Shuttle 🙂 !
Piece of Cake. I nominate:
Nissan Vanette. So hot, it was on fire!
Almost any DSM product. Eagle Talon/Plymouth Laser, mostly.
1976 Honda Accord. Didn’t they recall these when we ran out of Bondo?
Almost any DSM product.
2004 Infiniti QX56. “I’ve got no brakes” edition!
Almost any DSM product.
1994 Mazda 626. Your transmission is bad? We’ll replace the speedo gears!
Those are the ones that come to mind with major problems. The ones that I just plain don’t like:
Suzuki X-90.
Hondas.
Chevrolet Sprint.
Hondas.
Toyota Paseo
My nomination is the Isuzu Rodeo. It was a credible contender early in the SUV craze, and sold pretty well. These were all over Indiana, having been built in Lafayette. The things just never developed a good reputation. They seemed to be a bit brittle with lots of little niggling problems. They sort of turned into the SUV you could buy relatively cheap used, sort of an SUV for those who couldn’t afford the better ones.
And their even more obscure twin, the Honda Passport. The Passport didn’t do Honda much good, selling poorly and dragging Honda’s overall quality ratings down.
Plus, dealer service sucked because these things were so foreign to Honda techs.
Yep…the only “Honda” not covered by extended service or sold as certified pre owned. Warned by many not to buy if looking for reliability because it is a Honda in name only.
The Passport was a bit of an identity crisis car. It was a Isuzu product badged as a Honda that was made in a Subaru factory in Indiana(or so says the placard on the driver’s doorway on the 1995 Passport at that mom and pop dealership where I got several cars from
Ironically I see more Passports on the road in maryland then I do rodeos
Regardless of their cars’ actual pedigrees, I suspect “Honda” owners much better care of their Passports (and Acura SLXs, a rebadged Trooper) than typical Isuzu buyers.
True. There is a very well preserved Passport in my neighborhood, looks brand new.
230k on my current daily driver, 1999 Isuzu Rodeo with a 5 speed manual. It’s proven to be a very dependable little truck; great in the snow. I don’t plan on quitting driving it anytime soon.
I nominate the Buick/Opel by Isuzu (actual name) Buick sold them, but cared very little about servicing them.
Later Isuzu had their own dealerships with the Impulse; GM World car related to the Chevette, but with a Turbo. A co-worker bought two brand new. Both blew out the rear differential within months. Dealer was a former lawn equipment dealer with no real service department.
Datsun F10…. Probably reasonably reliable but ugly, especially the grill and headlamps
I know I’ll get flamed for this but I nominate Toyota Tacomas. Good trucks with the worst frames in the business. Hard core Taco lovers love to point out that Dana manufactured the frames and “it’s all their fault”, but those frames were built to Toyota’s specs (and I know that Dana took some of the blame for the problem). Dana also manufactures frames for the Big 3’s trucks and I’d be willing to bet even Nissan’s but their frames don’t seem to disintegrate. The recall was initially for 1995-2004 models but now they’re doing up to and including 2007 models. And before anyone calls me a “hater” (oh, how I loathe that infantile term) I would have no problem at all owning a Taco, they’ve got robust drivetrains that’ll last just about forever. It’s just that their frames and our lovely northeast Ohio climate don’t get along at all.
Edit: Here’s a link that say’s even 2008’s are now suspect, and that AFTER the initial recall was announced:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1092814_2005-2008-toyota-tacoma-could-have-frame-rust-may-get-free-fix
Not to pile on but here’s another climate related recall on Taco’s:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/690000-toyota-tacomas-recalled-for-leaf-springs-that-could-snap-damage-fuel-tank-and-brake-line/
I just went to the Toyota dealership today to have an oil change on my 1993 SR5 pickup and they were cleaning/rustproofing a frame on a 2007 Tacoma. I thought the problem stopped after 2004 for the Tacoma and after the 1st gen Tundra, but apparently not… At least, they seem to take it seriously and they fix the problem… They did replace the frame on a friend’s 2000 Tundra a few years ago and the new one is still OK. They clean and rustproof the frames that aren’t rusted through and they replace those that are.
Still, I think I’ll drive my 21 years old pickup a few more years!
I have to agree with this one. I respect the Hilux, but why in hades does the Tacoma have a separate frame design?
To add to the above, on my experiences driving one belonging to my elderly neighbor, i found little apart from convenient size to recommend one over my F-150s. There was very little difference in mileage or handling or ride comfort, and I found the four different types and textures of dash plastic very much at odds with the admirably inoffensive interior design of cars such as the Avalon.
This is a good nomination.
What was that small Nissan that was done as a co-venture with Alfa Romeo? First-generation Cherry/Alfa Romeo Arna? That was fairly notorious.
Yes, the Nissan Cherry Europe. Imagine the style and looks of an Alfa with the reliability and build quality of a Nissan. That’s what it could have been. Unfortunately, they decided to go the other way; style of a Nissan Cherry with Alfa reliability. A bizarre attempt to get around European import quotas if I remember correctly
The Subaru 360? Sold my Malcolm Bricklin in America where they lacked performance and safety measures expected by that market. Sales were much less than expected with many tossed into the sea and a number converted into a buggy type machine for use at a driving school.
Or the 1958 Toyopet that was incapable of climbing hills in California?
The Honda S500/600 has a similar story. Could not cope with the hills in San Francisco so not sold in the US market but did reach Canada. Those Toyopets were sold in Canada too. Apparently the world thinks we don’t have hills.
Su-ba-ru? Wow!
That’s the one I was thinking of. Not sure the Honda 600 was great either. The early Mazda RX2/3/4 and the Rotary Power pickup’s were not reliable engine wise.
Mitsubishis, they coast[ed] on “being Japanese” and get import buyers looking for a ‘bargain’. Resorted to ”no payments for a year” deals to get suckers. But their sales slide is ‘karma’, IMHO.
After them are Isuzu, they ran out of here with tail between legs. Again, saying ‘buy our cars, they are imports’ tag.
Datsun-now Nissan. B 210-any model. Cheap-and it showed. Started to rust in less than two years. Garbage!
I remember seeing those things with bubbling fenders shortly after they were introduced and wondered what Datsun was making them from, recycled beer cans 🙂 ?
A neighbor had a `72 or `73 B 210 fastback.In less than two and a half years, he had an eighteenn inch eaten through rust cancer rot from the left “b” pillar continuing to the rear of the car. Bondo-ed it over to the end, then the other side of the car started to rust in the same place. That pretty much soured him on Japanese cars.
I remember one model in particular that actually looked better AFTER the rust started to set in.
An old GF had a brown and gold “Honey Bee”. Looked like a gilded turd until the rust added camo and it blended into the background of everything else…
The pictured 120Y is one of the worst for rust that’s for sure! But it was a bulletproof engine, slick gearbox, and a ton-up car out of the box! They were as nice as anything in the era to drive too.. just no body treatment for rust whatsoever ..brand new out of the showroom they were already rusting. . . .
Haven’t sampled Japanese wares of the 60s or 70s personally. I had a coworker with a 76 Accord that the tops of the front fenders rusted through in 4 years, and by then it burned a quart of oil ever 500 miles, but the concept was excellent and the Accord survived and flourished in the US.
Ditto the Subaru 360 and Honda AN600. Neither were bad enough to kill the company’s prospects in the US.
Total market failure has to be the standard. An Austin Marina/Daewoo whatever level of failure.
I second the nomination above for the Buick “Opel by Isuzu”. I remember the tone of the road test in Motor Trend: beyond disappointment, approaching open hostility.
In spite of the leg up by GM, first as a Buick/Opel, then as the Geo Spectrum, and on it’s own as the I-Mark, it failed. It took real talent to fail with a small Japanese car in the late 70s/80s, but Isuzu succeeded.
I’m with Roger and the others on the X-90.
Don’t know about how it drives or its reliability, but the 1947 Toyota SA gets my vote for most hit with the ugly stick.
I think it kinda looks cool, like an 87 typeTatra mated with a Chrysler Airflow coupe.
Good description!
Looks to me like a Beetle sucking a lemon. Or kissing a Zephyr.
The offspring of a Zephyr and a Beetle.
Early 80’s 210. Absolute rust bucket in 4 years. Slow – to the point of being downright dangerous.
Guess it all depends on your perspective. I learned to drive with a diet of old (mid forties) cars. Then had a string of cars that were affordable for a young sailor.
With that in mine I didn’t consider any of the Japanese products to be bad. My nephew had a trouble prone early toyota and I had an rx3 that I don’t consider because of the rotary. From my own experience the Nissan NAPS engines in trucks had extremely fragile head gaskets thanks to the aluminum head/steel block and very little meat where they join. Overheating sounds the death knell for them.
To me, a japanese car or truck has always meant 300k with some minor repairs along the way. I now drive a Nissan and a Toyota and don’t consider them to be perfect. Just the best available for your $.
just about any Mitsubishi
Subarus and their head gasket failures
Honda Odyssey and Accord V6 transmissions
early Mazda RX7s
Toyota Tundras rusting in half
any 3.0L V6 Toyota
late model Nissan trucks don’t seem to be holding up very well either
Ah yes… the dreaded Toyota 3.0L sludge motor. I loved how Toyota blamed the owners for lax maintenance when they were actually following the owner’s manual’s instructions to the “t”!
Chrysler did the same thing on the 2.7. And of course, they were right. All the failed 2.7 motors I ever saw were not properly maintained.
The absolute worst were the rotary Mazdas of the early ’70s. We had the misfortune to own a ’74 Rx-4 wagon. Its myriad problems, high cost of parts and inability to find anyone willing to rebuild the engine, once it inevitably failed, were a calamity that is still remembered with horror 35 years later in my family. We ended up rebuilding the engine ourselves – in the street, in the middle of winter. I had a short story about this published a few years ago. It can be read here:
http://mystory.hias.org/en/stories/view/index/identity/38
Other horrors I used to own were two Mitsubishi products, a ’89 Colt Vista and a ’90 Mitsubishi Sigma.
The Colt Vista was a crappy underpowered little thing that had all sorts of mechanical issues until the engine failed. Its versatile interior was its only saving grace.
The Sigma was like owning a spaceship – utterly futuristic with all the luxury bells and whistles, but impossible to live with in real life situations. Parts were pure unobtainium – everyone was certain it was a Galant, which it wasn’t. By the time I managed to convince a mechanic that Galant parts wouldn’t work, I was facing special orders from Japan and prices about three times the amount I paid to repair the equivalent issue on my Chevy or Oldsmobile. Great car when it ran, but I think either a V12 Jaguar or a Yugo would have been more reliable. It did have an amazing factory sound system with volume controls on the steering wheel, the first I ever saw on any car. And it ate front axles at the rate of twice a year.
Surprisingly, my mom’s ’89 Plymouth Colt wagon was a great little car, utterly reliable. So I cannot condemn Mitsubishi across the board.
The saddest was my ’83 Toyota Supra. I loved that car, but it rusted away faster than anything I ever owned.
1998-02 Honda Accord (w/automatic trans)
1993-02 Mazda 626 (w/automatic trans)
1987-89 Nissan Stanza
1979-82 Datsun 310
1979-82 Toyota Corona
My Top 10 List:
Subaru Justy—A truly terrible car that most people either never knew existed or if they did have tried to forget. Underpowered, chintzy inside and out with a lousy ride and worse handling; anyone who drove one with a CVT transmission has painful memories of its awfulness and won’t have anything to do with a CVT ever again. Interestingly it did come in a 4WD version (and someone living in a snowy area with one of the last running examples is deeply offended by what I’ve written about it).
Datsun B-210—our first warning that something was amiss at the company that gave us the 510 & 240Z.
Datsun F10—Even though it’s already been nominated multiple times it needs to be nominated again. The yellow wagon with fake wood on the sides is the good looking one compared to its hatchback brother. Yikes!
1st generation 1970’s Datsun 200SX—Dastun’s rendition of the Pinto based 1974-1978 Mustang. The only way it looked good was when it was sitting next to an F10 in the showroom.
Mitsubishi Starion/Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge Conquest—Fun to drive, good looking but poorly built. Later models had an automatic climate control with Peugeot-like electronics reliability.
1st and 2nd generation Mazda RX-7—These cars would also make the top 10 most fun to drive list so it is painful to also put them on this list but they were pretty temperamental in their day. Just as Citroen SM enthusiasts claim that Citroen hydraulics really aren’t that complex and some Alfisti say that the Spica mechanical fuel injection can be set up to be perfectly fine, rotary enthusiasts see no drawbacks to the RX-7, just character (which is car-guy code for unreliable). The rest of us will regularly foul spark plugs because we don’t know how to start a cold rotary engine.
Daihatsu Charade—for once truth in product naming.
Any Mitsubishi with a 3.0 Liter V6 engine—for further explanation please look in the CC archives at late 1980’s/early 1990’s Chrysler products with a Mitsubishi 3.0 Liter V6 engine.
Any Mitsubishi with a 2.6 Liter 4 cylinder engine—see early Chrysler K-cars & Minivans
Buick/Opel by Isuzu and Isuzu I-Mark—Motor Trend was right.
Top 10 worst Japanese cars: can this be in general, or for the US market? Or? We need context.
10. Nissan Altima (1998-2001): lowered the bar set by the first generation, and this car allowed Nissan to redo the vehicle completely for 2002 and move it upscale
9. Toyota Echo (US version): really? this was the best “entry-level” car Toyota could foster on us to slot below the Corolla?
8. Subaru Forester (2008 to curent): not a bad car perse, but it hurdled the Forester into generic-SUV-dom rather than the wagon-that-isn’t-an-Impreza that it should’ve been all along. I think the Levorg is the spiritual successor to the original Forester
7. Nissan Skyline crossover/Infiniti EX35/37: not necessarily a bad vehicle perse, but it just.. it didn’t fit with Infiniti’s lineup. It wasn’t practical either, and had less cargo room than a G35 and was more expensive to boot.
6. Acura ILX: again, a competent car, until you consider that a Buick Verano is a better car for less money; and thriftier too.
5. Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC430: Really? You followed up one of the best personal-luxury coupe with something that didn’t have backseats, had a leaky-roof, and a design that dated the day it rolled into showrooms. Good job, Toyota.
4. Toyota Cavalier: While not really a terrible car, it just didn’t seem to have the usual build-quality associated with the Toyota crest. Not really sure why they bothered.
3. Mitsubishi Outlander (current-generation): polarizing looks, out-of-touch option packages, and a generally steep price of entry. Not worth $35 large IMO.
2. Mitsubishi Mirage (current-generation): 74 horsepower, 13″ wheels, and only 33 mpg. oh, and it will run you about $19,000 to get one with actual comfort-options.
1. Acura ZDX: the Japanese answer to the BMW X6; hard to get in and out of for backseat passenger, terrible fuel economy (for a Honda product), and about the only vehicle I’ve seen that has orange-peel from day one.
Regarding #8, every model year 2008 on has sold more units than any year prior, so not sure what you are exactly getting at? Subaru read/heard the market, and responded appropriately. Buyers clearly don’t agree with you. What an odd inclusion…
Forester or perhaps Baja?… useless..completely useless.
Slight correction to #8: The properly proportioned Forester was made for 12 years, 1997-2008; the 2009 was the first of the newer, larger type. (We have an ’06 5-speed and an ’07 automatic, and love them dearly. No steel-roofed car ever had better visibility in any direction – even upward, with the huge sunroof.)
Toyota Cavalier is actually a Chevrolet it only wears Toyota badging
Toyota Cavalier NOT a Japanese car… it was an American Cavalier, exported to Japan, and with Toyota emblems.
What a friggin joke… kinda like a 94-08 Mazda pickup, that was really a Ford Ranger.
From experience, may I nominate the ST140 Toyota Corona as all-time worst? You Americans got the first Camry instead of this heap. Be VERY thankful! This Corona was RWD, but had a larger body than its predecessor on a short-wheelbase, narrow-track chassis. it always felt unstable, to me.
My wife had one of these when we married. I had a ten year old Ford Cortina. The Cortina was smaller outside, roomier inside, handled heaps better (but rode worse), was faster and more economical that her new Corona. For those who don’t know, the Cortina was no benchmark car in the first place. Ten years progress to produce an inferior car to a model Ford had been selling from 1971 to 74?
Oh, what? A feeling? Toyota? Don’t believe it – no feelings in the ST140!
NZ got the FWD Corona OZ was the odd one out in still getting RWD Coronas thru till 87, A friend had a 86 wagon the only issue she ever had with it in 360,000kms was the clutch master cylinder failed at 360,000kms and a right bastard they are to replace, with the 2.4 engine they were pretty much indestructable nothing much to drive but they kept going forever.
That’s sad, because I owned the previous generation the 1980-82 RT130 “wedge” Toyota Corona… that had the bulletproof 22R. Mine was an 81 Corona Deluxe model.
Ran like a Swiss watch, and the A/C was ICE cold, too… I sold it to some Bozo, who initially wanted to trade me a 2003 Dodge pickup 4×4 for it.
It’s kind of pathetic when someone wants to trade a 2000+ Dodge for an 80s Toyota. Dodge trucks are rubbish. lol
1970s Toyota MK11 Corona- handling on a par with the Leyland Marina.The MK11 was a nearly new car when I drove it.
Really I had one in the early 00s went really well handled ok on the Huon roads certainly no worse than Falcons of the 90s
I owned two. They handle like pigs.
Mitsubishi had some real stinkers. I’ll nominate the Mirage and “S’Coupe” or however they spelled it. Years ago a friend had the “S’Coupe”, it couldn’t have been more than five years old but had a blue haze behind it and the engine sounded like marbles in a drier.
Also, their names sucked. Mirage? Not quite as bad as Aspire or Charade but close.
Maybe you can blame the low-end buyers of those cars for not maintaining them, but it used to be that virtually every car I saw with a trail of blue smoke behind it was a Mitsubishi.
The S Coupe was a Hyundai wasn’t it?
Agree on the blue smoke issue though. Mitsubishi had big corporate culture problems with vehicle defects not being reported to the Japanese transport ministry or acted on properly that came to a head in 2000.
The Scoupe was a Hyundai, but (like the Excel it was based on) relied heavily on Mitsubishi engineering. I think the engine was a Mitsu four-banger, too.
Seems I was wrong about the name. My friend’s car was actually a “Mitsubishi Mirage S Coupe”, but it was still a piece of junk.
Echo was Toyota’s Henry J
I remember reading an Echo road test in Car & Driver, they called it a mistake.
I don’t know about that:
Highs:
Class-leading acceleration, distinctive shape, plenty of interior storage.
Lows:
Tossed around easily by crosswinds and a bit tippy in turns.
Verdict:
A useful, inexpensive, fresh-looking small sedan with Toyota reliability.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-echo-road-test
Traditionally,front wheel drive cars were adversely affected by cross winds,but back in 1965 Renault introduced the 16TL and I read that the sides of the roof were purposely designed to ameliorate that problem.The roof sides when viewed from front or back resembled the shapes of the Sydney Opera House or the front guards of a 1954 RME Riley or a MKV1 Bentley.My 1975 Renault 16TS did not suffer cross winds as less articulate front wheel drive cars did.
Front wheel drive cars tend to be more stable in cross winds due to the extra weight over the steering and driving wheels. Rear engine cars such as VW’s tend to be unstable in cross winds due to lack of weight over the front wheels.
The S’Coupe was a Hyundai.
I’ve no particular beef against Japanese cars and I can see from most of the posts that everyone else is having a problem slagging them off. Agree that the Datsun 120Y was an unusual looking car but it has a place in my heart as I learnt to drive in one back in Edinburgh in 1975.
What I do hate about Japanese cars is the stupid names they get given; some of them sound like incurable skin diseases. Honestly, who wants to runaround in a car called a Cherry?!
But cherry blossom is very prominent in Japanese culture. Perhaps a good name for the home market, but not for export.
I have to agree with you about some names though. But at least a dumb name is better than a meaningless string of alphabet soup.
Cherry? I dont remember there is a car called Cherry, but I do remember there is a Chery which is a big copycat with miserable quality.
F-10 = Cherry.
Among others – the 310 and Pulsar were also called Cherry in Japan.
They were known here as the 100A (4 door 1 litre) and the 120A (3 door hatch 1.2 litre) i think.. both were quicker than the 120Y due to body lightness ..quite rapid in the lower gears ..very very road noisy …and the 120A could be converted easily to NZ ‘SSS’ specs with triple 38mm DellOrto’s.. i did this to my canary yellow 120A (took it to a racing guru at the time called Reg Cook, and he did all the conversion work)
It became the quickest light bodied ‘Datsun’ in the country pretty much (it was not cage-equipped, so was also quite a dangerous machine to drive really quickly in ..a front end of just moderate severity would have spelt ‘curtain call’ as it was such a lightly-built car
I had a well worn 120Y Datsun it was a bomb but reliable as the sun even at the end of its natural life, New they were a good drive for the times, Ugly? yep in spades but bloody good cars.
Well, when a Cherry has a backfire, is it a popped cherry? 😛
Or a cherry bomb…
Second-generation Honda Insight: yes, let’s compete against the Prius by taking our outdated, fragile hybrid powertrain and just undercutting the Prius’s price! There was little reason to buy one over a Fit, and even less reason to buy one over a Prius c when that arrived.
Mazda CX-7: lousy engine.
Greatest missed opportunity – tooling up the demand-limiting two seater body for the CR-Z rather than offering a sporty secondgen Insight with a manual transmission that’s still a full five-seater 5-door hatchback.
OK, that’s the second greatest – the greatest missed opportunity was not offering the CR-Z as an ultralightweight non-hybrid true successor to the CRX.
Yes, the CR-Z was a huge flop as well. Talk about design-by-committee! I know about the newly released OEM supercharger kit, but isn’t it a little late?
What do you think of the Lysholm system used by MB on it’s 2003 to 2006 range of all alloy 5439cc AMG CL, E and SL Classes? 600 horsepower plus and over 800Nms of torque with a simple pulley change to the supercharger (ie: a simple change from the OEM 89mm dia upper drive pulley down to a $275 83mm dia aftermarket top drive pulley)
These were (are) quicker than the Ferrari Maranello. .with the 89mm OEM pulley still in place. .
Now these are cheap to buy secondhand ..most with low kms ..careful use. . what an ENGINE
Nothing wrong with superchargers! What I’m saying is that the CR-Z likely would have been more successful if this option had been offered at release, before the media and market deemed the CR-Z a slow compromise.
Don’t know what to say about this one. I actually liked those early Japanese cars. Here in AZ they didn’t rust. I loved the fact that they were bare bones and unrefined. They were usually a blast to drive. I loved the mid ’70s Honda Civic. I drove a ’77 Datsun pickup for awhile, back in the early ’80s, though it wasn’t mine. Manual shift. Didn’t even come with A/C. The doors were about 2″ thick, and the suspension? well there really wasn’t any. Hit a bump and you knew it. Wish they still made them. I also owned an ’88 Suzuki Samurai. It also had a lot of rough edges, much like the Datsun. I bought it well used and abused, gave it a lot of TLC, and put another 80,000 miles on it. Despite my somewhat aggressive driving style, I never rolled it over. I’m sure it could be done, I’m also sure I could roll pretty much anything if I tried hard enough. Higher profile vehicles are easier to roll than lower profile vehicles. Common sense should apply here. Mine came with warning stickers in it. But IMO, Consumer Reports grossly overstated it. Remember the Isuzu Trooper and Bronco II came under fire from them as well.
So to sum it up, I guess that to me, the only bad Japanese cars are the ones being built today. Even the Toyota Yaris is much to bland and boring to be any fun to me.
Did you ever see how CR tested the Samurai? No kidding it rolled, I think the testing was a little jaded myself.
Mitsubishi Mirage…Need I say more? It has no power
Agreed. Not up to the standard of some of its predecessors, let alone modern standards. What were they thinking?
i love the purple they have it in too. that green will fade,
For current models, the Mirage is absolutely awful. Actually, it’s worse than awful, it’s nothing… Its predecessor in the NZ market was the Colt, which although not fabulous looked so much better than the Mirage. Mirage? – I wish it was…
In terms of looks, I’d put my money on the Toyota Tundra, the current Infiniti line of cars and crossovers, the current line of Lexus cars. My personal least favourite Japanese car was the Toyota MR2. It wasn’t a bad looking car, but it was too small! It had plenty of leg room, but no head room whatsoever.
The first generation MR2 was completely blown away by the Pontiac Fiero. But where Pontiac dropped the Fiero in ’88 (in typical GM fashion), Toyota had the chutzpah to redesign the MR2 and keep it going several more years.
Aside from being drop dead boring, most of today’s Japanese cars seem to lack the quality they used to have.
I have been looking for a new car in the $20K range for the past couple of years, and just can’t seem to find anything that looks like it would be reliable enough to last 200,000 miles. Not long ago, that was pretty much a given for most new cars.
Somebody mentioned the Tundra. About 5 years ago, my ex brother in law bought a brand new Tundra. It was completely falling apart after less than 100,000 miles. And it was built in Texas.
Are you serious about Fiero blowing away the MR2?
Yeah, they were both overweight and underpowered. Too heavy to handle properly for a mid engine two seater. The Pontiac was a slightly worse because of its suspension and even heavier curb weight.
Perhaps he is referring to the smoke and flames for which the Fiero was famous.
Anything Isuzu!
Nope. Chevy LUV trucks were awesome.
I’ll say modern Toyota Corollas because they are such utterly mediocre cars from a company capable of doing so much better.
Also the second generation Scion Xb for betraying all that was good about the first generation.
Other than that I’d probably have to reach all the way back to Consumer Reports’ hatchet job on the Subaru 360.
Hatchet Job on the Subaru 360? I actually saw a few of those in my hometown in Pennsylvania when they were new to the American market. In fact, I remember the name of our local dealer – Miller’s Department Store. My family was still driving SAAB 96’s in those days so we understood about small slow cars, but the 360 was no car… It should have never been allowed on American roads. I also remember a TV news report in 1969 when some lady in an Impala crushed one, killing the driver. They only weighed 1,000 lbs according to Wiki, and took 37 seconds to reach 60 mph, their top speed. In contrast, research shows a 67 VW transporter took ‘only’ 25 seconds.
I lived in Japan for about a decade in the 80’s and owned an old Kei (A Honda Life) and saw a few Subaru 360’s on their own turf…. And they were small and slow even by Kei car standards. I’ll leave you to ponder that
+1 for the Corolla comment. If Toyota buyers looked elsewhere, they’d find better cars – like the Mazda 3.
74-? Datsun B210 & F10 Really get the “Beaten By The Ugly Stick” Award. ewee!
Bad: 58-59 Toyopet Crown (my mom said it was built out of scrap Lucky Lager beer cans), If it wasn’t for the Land Cruiser, Toyota in the U.S. would not exist.
The overwhelming majority of Japanese cars aren’t aimed at a dude like me, and really have nothing to offer. So I guess its a loaded question, coming my way. But what the hey…
One that really stands out to me is the 3rd gen Eclipse (2000-2000). The first and especially 2nd gen models…now those are a shining example of Japanese cars that really DO resonate with me, in that they look sharp and in higher models they are true performance cars with plenty of room to upgrade. The 3rd gen really missed the mark. Turbo 4cyl…gone. AWD….gone. Clean and sharp styling…gone. In its place an overweight, poorly styled, overstuffed luxo coupe designed not for Fast N Furious, more like Fat N 50. Like young Marlon Brando, suddenly it became old flabby Brando. A once hot and desireable halo car that was the darling of anyone who hot-rodded Asian iron neutered and softened into a ride fit for a middle aged empty nester who wanted to stroke their ego enough to ‘feel’ cool and young again yet without actually offering the substance of a true performance car. The 4th gen was a half hearted effort to try to capture the 2nd gen magic but you could just hear a balloon deflating in the background as it faded away. The slap in the face came in the form of a Ralliart concept using the 4th gen car stuffed with Evo drivetrain…the car it SHOULD have been from the start.
And I know how this is gonna go over, but Im going to cite the Toyota Camry as a mention for a very bad Japanese car. Sure, its well built, reliable and safe. Its also BOOOOR-IIIIIINGGGG. Sorry guys, but the lack of any aggravating flaws or any irritating habits does NOT make something great. You wont hear any death metal, gangsta rap, gutter punk, or ska music on Muzak. That’s why they play it in stores, it designed to be as inoffensive as possible. Who’s going out buying albums of Muzak? Plain white bread may not cause anyone to have acid reflux but who’s ordering it for the main course? See where Im going with this? The reason I would call the Camry a ‘bad car’ isn’t for the mechanical breakdowns, deathtrap safety issues or horrendous build quality of ‘deadly sin’ cars. Its the systematic lowering of the bar that has sent the entire auto industry scrambling to build the blandest, least invigorating thing they can in order to appeal to the most apathetic of customers. By simply pandering to the lowest common denominator, I know of no other car that has caused such mass contentment by offering so little positive traits. If the best thing your car can offer is “it doesn’t fall apart immediately”, then all you’ve really accomplished is the perfection of mediocrity. If the Camry and a couple other sedans were the only ones aiming for the bottom feeder buyers, then it wouldn’t be a big deal. But like a virus, (meh Bola?) its infected like 90% of the industry to the point that most everything is a beige/grey blandmobile. Its causing younger generations to become less and less excited about cars and driving because the very impetus for being a gearhead has been stripped away.
I don’t know that the Camry is entirely to blame here for the trend towards the snoozemobile, so much as two other factors.
The first is the lack of opportunity to ‘drive’ instead of ‘commute’.
The second is a bit more complex, but someone did a study (I wish i could remember where I saw it) that most people prefer a known and consistent mediocrity to an unknown of higher objective quality. One can see this manifested in the McD’s, Waffle House, Taco Bell, etc, found at every freeway exit across the country.
I Don’t think the Camry is to blame for this either, not completely anyway. The first point I disagree with wholeheartedly though. The lack of opportunity to ‘drive’ instead of ‘commute’ shouldn’t favor the bland dull paper bag choice. If know you’re going to be stranded on a desert island all by your lonesome for several years without rescue you’re not going to bring a textbook about how grass grows to pass the time. If I’m in a car I enjoy simply being in, regardless of speed, it would make the stop and go that much more bearable. I might just pull off at an exit stretch out and wait out the traffic whilst sitting staring at my awesome car if it’s bad enough. In a Camcord I’m just frustrated, I want out of this dull appliance as soon as humanly possible.
The second point, I suppose. But is that really a desire for mediocrity or is it merely perception of what is now considered tried and true? Maybe people select bland and boring because it’s just manifested itself into the “common sense” choice? There is generally a perception today that interesting always has a downside, whether it’s true or not.
I’m not a Camry fan at all (well, except for the ’93-’96s, those were truly good cars), but I view it as more of a symptom rather than a cause. Too many people prefer the “safe” or “comfortable” choice with no risk involved. People today are so damned afraid of risk, even involving something so benign as buying a car. I just don’t get it…
Yup, the Camry is soooo loathed and hated. I mean, a 1965 BelAir with 409 and 4 on the floor was just soooo much better in the twisties. Almost all standard size Chevrolet cars came with the 409 and manual transmission, along with the firm, buttoned down suspension for which the awesome ’65 was known.
I do hear that GM built some of the cars, but only a tiny fraction, with Stovebolt Six or the 283 Small Block, mated to something called “Powerglide,” but 99.9% of all Chevies sold in 1965 had the 409 and REAL manual transmission, since all CC posters would never drive an automatic. The commute was awesome in those days, too, since the 409 could easy do 5 L/100 km. Try that in your under-powered, V-6 Camry, I mean, that’s like 215 cubic inches, hahaha! What’s more, a 1965 Chevrolet was known to be impervious to rust, and had brakes that would stop you from 100 km/h in 40 metres, and do it repeatedly.
The Camry sure sucks. I hear that V-6 is so slow that it can’t catch a golf cart.
Which Camry has the V6? is that the grey one or the silver one?
Ah yes, the classic straw argument, Canucknucklehead. Answer me this Batman… what will a current Camry be worth @ 50 years of age? Answer… nothing. Scrap value. Why? Because if they are even remembered they will be remembered as nothing but appliances. We get it here, you love Camrys. So what if it outcorners a ’62 Impala? People fondly remember those and will pay big bucks for them. An old Camry will never be worth a plugged nickel. And BTW, Camry 4cyl sales outnumber V6 sales by a very large margin. That tells me something about Camry owners right there. Gotta go with the “safe” choice, not the “fun” one.
About as much as a 50 year old Chevrolet I’d wager. But what does it matter, anyway? The Camry is a mass transit device, just like the vast majority of 1965 Chevrolet cars. There are almost no 238/Powerglides left, yet millions were sold. Only the rare ones retain any value.
And stop being silly. I’ve driven the four cylinder Camry at length, and the car does not need the V-6.
Not everyone is the same as me. I like a certain type of car, and other people like a certain type of car. That does not make that person “bad” or “stupid.” It means they have different choices/priorities than I do.
I think that applies to politicians too Andrew!
Totally agree. In fact very few newer cars of any brand, at least affordable ones, are built for someone like me. I want at least a little “fun” to go with my cars. Time to go back and take another look at the Miata.
I had a Sonic turbo rental recently. It was a lot of fun and surprisingly comfortable.
Love your “meh-Bola” comment. Toyota need to hear this!
Nissan Murano convertible. I mean, why? It is so awkward looking and expensive.
Another +1 for the Sammy. I don’t think the X90 has any friends though. I think it even tops the F10 for this list, at least for the U.S. market. The Murano convertible is a podium contender also.
The early 1960s Toyota Crown had a massive X frame chassis that was so heavy it slowed the car down considerably. It was also a failure in America due to the lack of performance.
Mitsubishi Precis, Mitsubishi Diamante (always made me think of some weird Japanese-Italian fusion restaurant).
I can think of some other Asian POSes but not Japanese, even though I’m not really a fan of Japanese ride, handling, or styling (just drove an ES350 and found the ceiling uncomfortably close), I have to concede their overall efficiency, reliability, and robustness.
To be fair the Precis was a Korean built car. Yes it was the Colt in an Italian suit but it was built in Korea by Hyundai.
They only called it Diamante in America. In Australia it was the Verada.
And in the U.K. I think it was still called Sigma, which was the model it replaced in the U.S.
It was Diamante in New Zealand too.
Diamante 3.5 is good 180kw power versus dollar value for money here, they are not slow, and ride and handle quite well but rear seat legroom is quite restricted in the wagon version (Magna), and the autobox needs an aftermarket oilcooler added to be reliable, reasonably easy on fuel, not a bad cruiser, has side airbags, front and rear window seals tend to leak, brakes are average, not perfect like a Toyopet but they are not exactly POS category in my view .. 🙂
Well, plenty of interesting nominations above! I’ll add my vote to the Datsun B210 / 120Y (why, why, why???). I like all Nissans other weirdo-styling cars from the 70s, but the 120Y…no, just no…
Why, why, why, 120 times why?
Pretty much anything made by Mitsubishi and Renault/Nissan. Subaru gets an not so honorable mention for its infamous head gaskets. Mazda for its excessive rust problems
’87 Honda Civic 4dr sedan. Horribly underpowered and made worse with an automatic transmission. Rock hard seats with the lumbar support in the wrong place that would have me crying in pain after 10 minutes of driving. Road noise of galactic porportions. Terrible ride quality. Poor aerodynamics that would cause nasty windburn with the front windows open and an awful thrumming when the rears were open. Truly a terrible automobile.
Second is any U.S. market naturally aspirated Toyota diesel pickup from the early 80’s. Dangerously underpowered, cheap plastic interior, failure prone 5speed transmissions and that stupid air vent that can not be closed off. Rust magnets to boot.
Third is the first gen US market Honda cvcc. These things rusted terribly even in southern CA. Dad bot a new orange one in ’75 and he kept it waxed like there was no tomorrow. This car cancered from the inside out despite never seeing snow. Cheap cheap cheap.
Styling-wise, I’ll nominate the ’84 Toyota Van (as known in the USA market) as a stinker. It’s successor, the Previa, is still (to my eye) one of the best styled minivans ever.
Mazda RX-8 for reliability and The current Lexus line for throwing away great designs and making their entire product range look like deep sea fish.
Yes! That’s it – “deep sea fish.” You are bang on. The new LEXUS models do look like aquatically inspired fish on wheels. That clears that up for me.
I have to go with the Mazda Roadpacer AP (that’s “anti-pollution”) Basically, stuff a weedy little rotary engine with a 3 speed automatic into a giant Holden. The result is a torqueless, go nowhere car that gets less than 10mpg in normal driving.
My experience is limited to anecdotal cases since I really don’t pay any attention to Japanese cars but I think Mitsubishi and Nissan probably hold the largest selection of misfits, my family had quite a few of the latter in the 90s/00s and I have a lot of friends who’ve had or still have various Mitsubishis – Eclipse, Lancers Diamantes, ect. These two companies really coast on the laurels of Toyota and Honda as far as Japanese quality and reliability is concerned IMO. I’d feel more comfortable owning a Roger Smith era GM over either of them frankly.
Other cars of note, Honda Oddest for it’s shit transmissions. My Aunt had one go at 70,000 miles and from what I hear she was hardly the only one. And My Dad’s Lexus GS300 – For all the praise the 2jz inline 6 gets it sure has been an oil consuming, leaky, sludgy mess for most of it’s life in that car, it also was in critical need of a suspension rebuild under 100k miles, not that I think that’s unheard of but I often hear that used as a criticism of certain American cars.
It’s Mitsubishi,
Had a 1981 Datsun 210 Hatchback i picked up for 200 dollars back in the day, great reliable car. Pop riveted sheet metal patches over the masses of rust on the body and sprayed it with Armor coat Red primer to clean it up. Great gas mileage with the dual spark plug per cylinder layout. Never really filled it up and one day I lent it to my neighbor and he filled it up. Went to work and my boss finds me and says “your gas tank fell out in the parking lot”. The rust worm attacked the frame. Was my 210 ugly….. why yes.
A friend had a 1981 Toyota Celica Sunchaser . He bought it new. It was kept in a garage. He was a Navy dentist and very responsible. At 44K miles in 1987 it burned oil with clouds of smoke. He never owned another Toyota.
Mid nineties Toyota Tercel. Cheap flimsy body, weak engine, poor handling, really uncomfortable.
Sure they are cheap to run and supposedly reliable, but who cares when you don’t want to drive it and are embarrassed to give any body a ride!
My brother had one and we took it on a road trip. 5000 km from Whitehorse Yukon to Victoria BC. The fastest we could get it going was 150k, downhill. At that point the front end started jumping left to right and you could feel the body twisting. One of the most frightening automotive experiences of my life!
When it died outside of Kamloops on the return trip we were both relieved! The exhaust manifold was cherry red and I was seriously worried it was going to burst into flames. We put a free car sign on it and hitched back to Kamloops, I bought a new car and never looked back.
When considering how “good” a car is everyone should keep in mind that the body is the most valuable part of any vehicle. Followed by the suspension and steering components. Just because a car has a tough drive train does not make it good. Especially when it is gutless and boring to drive.
That “Turd-sell” was the worst vehicle I has ever ridden in or drove. The ones from ten years before were considerably better built. You never see that generation any more. Good riddance!
I’d say the isuzu impulse, good looking car, but a piece of junk.
I actually liked the Datsun B210 “Honey Bee” Bare bones to the max, utterly forgettable other than the Honey Bee name and stripe. That made them sought after. They didn’t rust here, but they broke down, and repairs were so expensive they weren’t worth repairing, so they got scrapped.
I think Mazda and Suzuki made the best Japanese cars, and Suzuki is now gone. I don’t know about cars, but many Mitsubishi and Isuzu pickups lasted past 200,000 miles, and that was back in the ’80s.
The Chevy Sprint(suzuki) was an awesome car.
1) Datsun F-10, can you say break down often and expensive parts! rust rust rust
2) Mazda RX2/RX3 odd duck styling, oil leaks and consumption and poor mileage
3) Isuzu Impulse- just about everything that could go wrong did
4) Honda Odyssey minivan – timing belts, shuddering cylinder deactivation, exploding 5 speed transaxles, electrical gremlins including the powered doors, wheel bearings and lame cheap looking interiors dogged these up until current body style
5) Early to mid eighties Honda Civic- specifically with automatic transaxles- can you say underpowered, horrid shift quality, nightmare carburetor and rust, noise noise noise and nearly impossible to swap that transaxle out when they go south. Believe me we did 3 swap outs and turned any others away due to the sheer time it took to do those transaxles. Honorable mention going to the early CVCC from 1975 with all of the above qualities with head gasket and overheating issues and lousy motor mounts added to the fun!
6) Toyota Corolla- early years for seriously underpowered engines, cramped uncomfortable interiors that were also cheap. My friend owned a 1981 automatic and it did all it could to maintain 75 MPH. Passing power- nope. Timing belts, head jobs, oil burning- yup
7) Mitsubishi Mirage- I know it’s cheap but it has to qualify as one of the worst new gas powered cars today
8) Mitsubishi I-MIEV- eeeewwww
9) Scion IQ- the most useless, silly, unsubstantial, underpowered car Toyota has ever made circa 2000. I would hate to be the poor soul in one of these in an accident against a sport utility. The word pancake comes to mind
10) 1997-2001 Toyota Camry- I’m probably going to take heat for this one but IMO Toyota cheapened this car to the extreme, introduced the boring beige and gray old fart interiors that everybody else copied, gave new meaning to the term soggy handling and Novocain steering, had styling that made a Cutlass Ciera look a bit interesting, and suffered from the famous engine sludging issues that Toyota so graciously blamed on the customer. Wheel bearings, suspension clunks, el-cheapo interiors add to the fun. The fact that the 1992-1996 models were such decent well built vehicles made these cheapened versions stand out even more.
I always wondered how Toyota could follow such a winner with the ’93-’96 Camry with such a lame-ass pile. Around here (n.e. Ohio) I see more of the ’93-’96s on the road than I do the ’97-’00s.
I’d probably go for the subaru XT of the 80s, just because it so completely missed their market.
Seems to me that after all this, there is still no bad Japanese cars. Apart from rust issues, they seem to all have been reliable, save for individual experiences.
That made me think about seeing the question from the parameters of a GM Deadly Sin. They are mostly deadly because of their unreliability, but also because they were what made GM collapse.
So I thought about Nissan. They were huge in the US and many other countries. If I recall correctly, they were in many places the no. 1 Japanese company, above Toyota.
But what made Nissan fall? Why did it loose its domination to Toyota, and go so low that it even had to be rescued by Renault? Maybe there is some good candidate there.
I have some ideas: the name change from Datsun hurt them. Also, they went full on the squarest styling when the trend was Aero. And Infiniti was never Lexus.
Was there also a particular bad car from Nissan back then?
There is no “except for the rust issue”… that is a MAJOR issue! And they haven’t “all been reliable” either! Read up on Toyota sludge, Honda Odyssey transmissions, Mazda RX8 oil burning, Get your head out of the sand.
Roger,
Don’t forget the sticking gas pedals and questionable throttles on mid-late ’00s Toyota and Lexus products. That’s a major black eye on the company, IMO.
My family owned Toyotas for a number of years but once we discovered Volvos we haven’t owned anything else. Any Volvo of the last 25 years is safer, more durable and more fun to drive than most Toyota products of that time period.
Any Volvo of the past 25 years…more durable? Bwahahaha! A friend of mine has a nice ’03 XC90 T6 he’d love to sell you. Sure, it shifts a bit funny at times…
Blame the jap Yamaha engine ..too much power for the box to handle basically
The T6 engine was all Volvo (paired with a GM transmission). You’re thinking of the V8, which may have had some transmission failures, but nothing like the T6.
Unfortunately, every single rating agency does not support your claim.
It must be a conspiracy.
Mid 1960’s Toyotas ~ they had a fragile like glass engine , the cars were cute and remarkably roomy in spite of being tiny but I remember constantly having to work on the 5 year old ones my young friends bought .
My foggy memory says this was the 3RB engine (?) .
Also the two speed ‘ Toyoglide ‘ slushbox tranny , it was just GM Power Glide built under license but it was also delicate ~ shifting into reverse as the car was still rollng forward , *instantly* broke the reverse band…
-Nate
I had a 68 Corona in the mid-80s. It was small enough that pushing it backwards wasn’t bad. I paid $200 for it at the time so some of it’s character may have come from that. It didn’t have reverse, carb was terrible, it ate valves, and the exhaust never stopped rusting (and this was in southern California). Had a heck of a time getting it smogged. This could be a contender I suppose. It wasn’t a bad looking car and the interior held up well. Mechanically it wasn’t stellar. Backwards hinged hood was a plus, made it hard to work on but oh so BMW like!
The worst Japanese car isn’t a car. Its the dealer.
Japanese marque dealers really lived up to the term “stealership”. They had a product with an overblown (yeah, Japanese cars were mechanically more reliable, but they weren’t God’s Own Car) reputation for reliability, and they milked it for all it was worth.
I remember more intelligent members of the Beltway crowd coming up to Johnstown, PA to buy a Toyota in the 80’s because the local dealer only charged $400 “additional dealer margin” rather than the $1200 being charged in the Baltimore/DC area. And once you started with $1200 over sticker, there was no negotiation, and your trade-in offer would be the lowest possible. And I knew of a few instances where the dealership wouldn’t even bother quoting on a trade-in, they didn’t want to be bothered with taking yet another 70’s American marque. A nice technique for driving home what a POS you were driving and you should be grateful that the dealership was willing to sell you a perfect Japanese car.
And people were stupid enough to line up for this treatment. Even better, once the competition caught up and the Japanese cheapened their cars down to (admittedly raised) American levels, they still credited Japanese cars with being God’s Own Car.
I remember Consumer’s Reports screaming about the stupidity of their readership willing to be raped $1200+ on a Toyota Corolla while unwilling to look at a Chevrolet Nova, even though they were the same car!
Looking back over 45+ years of car ownership. I never considered a Japanese car back then because there’s no car in the world worth negotiating from above sticker. And I’ve only owned three Japanese cars in my lifetime: My current xB, and an ’04 Mazda3 which was new, hadn’t caught on yet, and the dealer was willing to do American style dealing, and the ’96 Geo Metro I bought for my live-in girlfriend. And the Chevy dealer lived up to his name and dealt.
EXACTLY RIGHT!
This is the point I was trying to make when comparing the Toyota Celica Supra to Mustangs, Camaros, and Nissan Zs. ONE TIME, many years ago I walked onto a Toyota lot and after 10 minutes talking to the salesman I decided he was a complete asshole and anyone who buys a Toyota from a Toyota dealership is a complete idiot. I don’t care how good the car is. You do not do business with people like that and you do not pay prices like that.
Toyotas were obviously good cars but they were also obviously way over hyped.
Here in Australia cars (and many other consumer goods) carry a recommended retail price, The dealer is allowed to charge up to, but NOT more than that price. The RRP is freely available to consumers, is published in car magazines, listed on each company’s website. Dealers make a big thing of how good they are by quoting so much under RRP. Oh they still make a profit from options, inflated service costs, added on-road costs, etc. – but there’s none of this “additional dealer margin” nonsense.
Hmm, I’m conflicted on that. As much as I detest dealerships charging extra, I think I would detest a law against it even more. Free markets aren’t free if you tell people what they can charge.
I think Hondas of the mid ’80s equipped with automatics and feedback carburetors deserve mention here. Honda avoided fuel injection on its mainstream models for way too long, and aside from those used on the Prelude, many ran quite poorly, idling too quickly. Jerky, Mediocre acceleration when paired with an automatic is excusable in the presence of good refinement but only the injected engines offered this. Conversely, uneven running when paired with a carb is okay in the presence of lively acceleration when paired with excellent manual transmissions, but the majority of mainstream models had a high automatic take rate and carb engines. Surely Honda could’ve cobbled together a throttle body system for its cheaper models; they were finally compelled to offer NOrth American buyers a dual point injection system for the low level ’88 Civics but the Accord carried on with a two barrel until 1989. Nissan, Toyota and Mazda equipped their mainstream compacts with multipoint injection as standard much earlier. Meanwhile, VW gave
Americans fuel injection since the late ’70s, something I feel they don’t get enough credit
for doing.
Having just typed this, however, I realize this sort of statement needs to be tempered, as these cars still offered dynamics, design and quality that were at least above average. There’s nothing “worst” about these cars, but given the context of the day, holding out on fuel injection is a significant criticism. I’d still love an 88 or 89 Accord LX-i sedan to use as a daily classic, on the other hand.
Perry,
Don’t forget Volvo – they also gave Americans fuel injection, starting in 1970 with the P1800 series and extending to their other models the following year. They too don’t get enough credit for that innovation.
Well ;
That was the BOSCH D-Jetronic , M.A.P. controlled F.I. system ,it was crude at best and many found it troublesome .
Only was adapted to make old tech dirty engines pass the U.S. SMOG requirements
I rather liked it as both power and fuel economy bumped up noticeably .
As far as I could tell , if you LEFT IT ALONE and kept after the fuel filter and valve gaps , it was pretty trouble free ~ I’ve had quite a few D-Jet equipped cars and once I took the DPO / DPM bodges out , ALL were 100 % reliable and trouble free .
-Nate
Honda had my number there, for I baulked at fuel injection because I’m a debt-free cheapskate; I remember +$2 or $3K for the LX-i over the DX hatchback, & never regretted the latter. You wouldn’t be surprised that it was a 5-spd. No carburetor or driveline trouble for 16 yrs/150Kmi, only downside was slight hesitation when cold.
Best car I ever owned, with its balance of performance, economy, agility, & roadholding, a very pleasant daily driver. Carburetors may be kludgey, but no regrets here.
Right; having a 5-spd made all the difference. It’s the carb + auto combo which was the issue and, given all the praise heaped upon the Hondas of that era, overlooked surprisingly often, even in contemporary reviews. But like I said, certainly not the makings of a “worst Japanese car.”
Then again, it’s easier to come up with a list of overrated Japanese cars than to come up with a full list of ten execrable efforts.
In retrospect, I think it’s regrettable that Honda was unwilling to just license Bosch L- or LH-Jetronic and a better, non-proprietary four-speed automatic. (And probably ATE or Bosch ABS, but that’s another matter.)
The ex-husband of one of my wife’s cousins had a couple early-80’s Subarus that caught fire, that was back when the spare tire was mounted under the hood over the engine.
25 years later, we became Subaru fans thanks to a ’92 Legacy wagon that was a hoot to drive and delivered 28 MPG consistently. It was a graduation gift to our son from from my mom in Vermont, where Subaru, it seems, is the official car. She’d driven and cared for it for years and was a welcome hand-me-down.
A year later we were searching for a car and given how much my wife enjoyed the ’92 Legacy, we bought a 9-year old Legacy Outback which was tight, engaging but also had that 2.5 engine that eats head gaskets. Fortunately this one was covered under the extended warranty we bought with the car…but the 2005 Outback we traded it on, a year and a half later, wasn’t.
It was on its way to a SECOND head gasket repair at 178,000 miles when my wife visited a Chevrolet dealer near her job and drove away in a 2011 Equinox LTZ.
Many GM’s are reviled for intake gasket issues but in my experience you can fix those with a superior aftermarket product and be good. That’s certainly been the experience with my ’97 Blazer.
But I began to get the feeling from the dealer that well, that’s just what 2.5 Subies do. And if you know the maintenance schedule…there’s a 110,000 mile timing belt replacement…that by the time you add in the water pump that you should change while you’re in there AND do head gaskets…$1500-$2000 isn’t unrealistic.
Plus a tune-up.
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I believe an engine shouldn’t require $2000 worth of maintenance to go with my tune-up every 110,000 miles. Especially in what’s supposed to be perceived as a somewhat-premium car.
True, it’s hard to think of a single Japanese car like the Chevy Vega or Plymouth Volare. Is the Subaru 360 a fair target? No one else was exporting kei cars to the US and you can’t even blame Subaru…that was Malcolm Bricklin.
I’ll bet most of the import disasters on our shores stemmed from sending vehicles that were stars in their homeland but not properly engineered for US driving conditions or regulations. That’s different from designing something specifically for the US market and cutting corners.
But today you can see foreign manufacturers – not just Japanese – displaying an arrogance similar to what GM displayed in the 70s, 80s and 90s. While at the same time at least two if not all three US domestic manufacturers are building the finest vehicles in their history.
I see the day coming when the perception of Japan’s superior quality will be as outdated as a leisure suit. As far as I’m concerned, it’s already here.
“I see the day coming when the perception of Japan’s superior quality will be as outdated as a leisure suit.” Amen to that. Korea is slowly but surely eating Japan,Inc for lunch.
Yup, Japanese cars are just a flash in the pan. They’ll never stand our conditions.
Yes, Toyota is NUMBER ONE now, that that’s because everybody who buys a Toyota is not as smart as me. I have never driven one, but I know a guy who has a cousin who has a friend who has a sister who had one, and it was real bad.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eimi45eilh/no-1-toyota-motor/
The Japanese car makers forced flouride into our water system, which made too many people go out and buy Japanese cars. Here on the farm in Kansas, we have well water and Chevy trucks, and since Kansas is the centre of the world, everyone who does something different than me is misguided or totally stupid.
So THAT’S whats the matter with Kansas.
Yup. They seem to have the flat-earth virus. Makes Ebola seem safe.
A Canadian with a superiority complex. That’s precious.
Japan’s success in the US car market is all the more remarkable considering how ugly & cramped their early offerings were.
I’ll never forgive Detroit’s lobbying for 1981 Voluntary Export Restraints. That was a sure sign that they were a bunch of lazy, sore losers without shame. One thing I’ve learned: Free markets are only supported by big biz when it suits them. Nothing punishes brain-damaged management like open competition; to prop them up is a crime against the public.
Canuck, I think you’re missing Roger’s point. He’s saying that Japan Inc. will not rule forever and the Koreans are catching up. I agree with Roger. When it comes to electronics the Koreans have already caught up and surpassed the Japanese. Samsung phones are more popular and more advanced than their competition from Sony and other Japanese phone makers that are just barely hanging on. Both LG and Samsung have taken over the LCD TV market. Most Japanese branded TVs have panels in them made by the Koreans or Chinese. It’s only a matter of time before the same happens to the automotive market. Honda is already importing Honda Fits from China for the Canadian market.
I know Korea well, I lived there for almost a decade and yes, their car companies are doing well. Hyundai is now #8, but if you look at market share, the American based companies have taken a you know what kicking. Toyota is the largest car maker in the world now, VW the second and Daimler third, Ford number fourth and GM sixth. This means that US volume of auto sales is at all time lows. Even in the North American market, the Japanese rule the family sedan segment. In Canada, anyway, the Korean stuff has taken place of the low end stuff, the Plymouth Caravelle buyer, who wants cheap. At one time, they bought Japanese cars, but that was a long, long time ago. Here anyway, the Japanese are still number one by a fair margin, except they now mainly compete against Hyundai and Kia instead of Ford a GM.
The 2015 Fit is made in Mexico. We got Chinese made cars for 2013 and 2014 I believe.
Knock Japanese cars all you like but they never made duds like the Allegro,Marina,Vega etc.If a lemon did get made it was quietly killed off or straightened up unlike BL who carried on selling them hoping no one would notice
BS. There are many examples listed here.
No Japanese car I have ever been in, including my horrible 550 cc Alto Kei I drove in Fukuoka, was as bad as a Marina or a Vega.
So you are claiming that you have been in all the ones mentioned here?
Yup. When your family owns a garage in Victoria, British Columbia, you’ll see plenty of British cars. All of them horrid in their peculiar English way. I have a friend in Scotland who had an Allegro. Total POS.
Yeah well they never made anything as innovative and groundbreaking as the Mini or 1100 either. Easy to get a quality rep when all you have to do is improve on what’s already been done.
They have made some pretty amazing profits, however. I have done very, VERY well with Toyota stock.
How has the dividend of GM stock been over the last, say, ten years?
Again, easy to do when all the innovation has already been pioneered by the less profitable companies.
As for your question, don’t know, don’t care. I have no interest in automobiles past their physical merits, spreadsheets and quarterly earnings are about as interesting to me as a grey Camry, which lucky for you has favorable spreadsheets and quarterly earnings I’ve been told.
Yup, making money is what car companies do, actually. Making the dull as dishwater Camry is what allows the LFA to exist, which is a pretty cool car.
No, making cars is what car companies do. There’s a difference between making money and earning money.
And unless I’m mistaken the LFA should be mentioned in past tense. The Toyota priced higher than a much cooler Lamborghini stopped production in 2012 at under 500 units.
When a car company gets to the (classic GM) attitude of, “we’re not here to make cars, we’re here to make a profit”, that’s when the trouble starts. Return on investment becomes more important than quality of the product. GM did it, and it killed them. Toyota is currently doing it, and its going to be interesting to see if it has the same effect. The attitude has certainly taken the polish off their reputation among the car enthusiasts. Now we wait to see how long it takes to filter down to the ‘appliance buyers’ who couldn’t care less about cars except for their function.
And, as GM learned, once the reputation is lost, its virtually impossible to get back again.
Syke, I have never met a true car enthusiast who loves a Camry or Corolla. They have almost always appealed to those who couldn’t care less about cars and just want an appliance that gets them from point a to b.
Agreed. That’s why we have the FR-S and Corvette to go with the Corolla and the Cruze.
What, drift fans aren’t “true car enthusiasts”? (See also Corolla Levin AE86.)
Ugly award goes to the Datsun F10 with the B210 not far behind. I owned a Datsun 310 for (4) years in the mid 80’s. Compared to my previous VW’s this thing was a dream. Heat, quiet, plush interior,dependable but gutless. I’d be driving on I95 with my foot to the floor trying to manage 65 mph. Several times the pedal stuck and I had to pull over and shut off to unstick it. One of my brothers friends called it the “The Electric 310” because he thought it had an electric motor.
IMHO, worst Japanese cars:
1. mid-late 70s Datsun 200SX–certainly the ugliest car ever sold in this country
2. mid-late 70s Datsun F10 Hatchback — 2nd ugliest
3. Datsun B-210 with 2 doors
Coming in the wake of the Datsun 510, and even the Datsun 1200 of the early 70s, not to mention the Z-car (which became uglier, but was never ugly), it is amazing how they managed to produce such hideous cars.
But other than early 70s Mazda rotaries (maybe), I must confess, I cannot think of a Japanese “lemon” — at least not when compared to other offerings of similar vintage.
Remember taking in many 80s Subarus that needed exhaust systems……disposable cars with what seemed like 10 different $$$$$$ catalytic converters….junk.
I have come to the conclusion that there simply aren’t any “good” cars anymore. And I’m not just talking about the absence of cars I like. It seems that nobody builds a quality car anymore, no matter how much you pay for it. Expensive European cars have the worst reliability records and highest depreciation of all cars. Neither U.S or Asian manufacturers seem to care about quality anymore. It’s become all about how to make a quick buck. A Toyota Camry or Chevy Impala are some of the blandest cars around. But they should at least be dependable, reliable, and last a long time. They did used to be that way, but now they are cheap, flimsy cars, Slam the door on either one and it sounds like dropping a beer can on the ground. The GM intake manifold gasket problem affected every V6 they made, But it’s not clear whether the problem was mostly caused by the gaskets themselves, or the use of Dexcool.
I have done a lot of research, and decided that my next car will probably be a slightly used Mazda 3 or 6. As nice as a Miata would be, it is not practical transportation. And Mazda seems to be the only Japanese company that still cares a little bit about quality. Maybe it’s because they are the smallest major manufacturer. Toyota, Nissan, and Honda have indeed become arrogant.
I know this was probably meant to be about older Japanese cars, but IMO, the older ones were better than the newer ones. My sister put close to 250,000 miles on a 1980 Toyota Celica liftback with the 20R engine. You could just feel the quality while working on it or driving it. Back then Japanese engines had cast aluminum valve covers while American cars used stamped steel.
And I have come to the conclusion that there simply aren’t any “bad” cars anymore. Even the cheapest Mitsubishi Mirage or Dodge Dart will start every day for the next ten years.
Flimsy doors? Call it that, but that Mirage or Dart has “good” side-impact ratings. The Saab 9-5, among the safest cars 15 years ago, only received an “acceptable”.
Oh yes, and no cars – not even Japanese – were perfect in terms of reliability in the ’80s. Google “Supra head gasket”.
Nostalgia is a seductive liar.
JunkyardDog,
Is cast aluminum considered to be stronger than stamped steel?
I certainly know what you mean concerning good, well-made “quality” cars today. No new vehicle appeals to me at all, except for certain Volvos because I’m a Volvo enthusiast.
And the old RWD Volvos are way better than the brand-new ones in terms of reliability and durability. Just like your sister, I am currently driving older RWD models – I have two 740s, a 1986 and a 1991. The ’86 has 225k miles on it and the ’91 has about 189k. I drive both regularly and I know they will probably last into the next decade.
I can’t exactly say whether cast aluminum actually has any functional superiority when used in that way. But it is a nice detail. Japanese cars used to have a thing for detail. On the mid ’70s Civic that everybody puts down, there was a lot of detail. It was not put together with drill point screws, but machine screws, nuts and washers. I specifically remember the DOT side marker lights. While today’s cars have a cheap piece of plastic that snaps into a hole in the body, and breaks easily, that Civic had chrome metal housings, heavy curved plastic lenses, and a rubber seal between the light and body, with 2 exposed screws holding it in place. Even on that little tiny car, the doors had a nice solid sound. I looked at a Fiat 500 (base model) because it reminded me of that Honda. The body panels actually lined up better, but the material was cheap and flimsy. One day at work, I made a big dent in the door of an ’02 Ford F250 by just leaning against it, And on the same truck, I took it to a coin operated car wash to rinse it off, and the paint literally washed right off the bumper. And yet again, on the same truck (it was assigned to me) one of the glued on emblems literally fell off the front fender. I found it while it was just about to come off. This just doesn’t seem like quality to me.
But really, is there a car made today, by anyone, that you can expect 200,000 nearly trouble free miles out of? There was 15 years ago.
cast aluminum is nowhere near as strong as stamped steel. But there are other considerations besides strength. Heat dissipation, gasket surface irregularities, and thermal expansion.
I have to side with MT on this, there were still bad cars 15 years ago, pretty much every Korean car for instance, several GMs a few Fords, most Mopars, ect. Today I seriously have to wonder if any current car could possibly not go to 300k with basic maintenance. Mileage just isn’t the test anymore, I think if there’s going to be anything that kills current cars it’s going to be actual age, whether it’s the growing numbers of plastic/rubber pieces to degrade, or planned obsolescence with infotainment systems.
I think packaging efficiency was FAR superior in most cars 15 years ago however, and I seriously doubt they’re any less safe than todays cars. Power was just enough, styling hadn’t yet gone totally bangled(although it was bland by then) and pedestrian safety was still simply “stop look and listen”(what an archane concept!).
I don’t know about no “good” cars anymore. Or “bad” ones, at least not on the level of a Datsun B-210/120 Y/Sunny or Yugo. I think the one benefit (if you want to call it that) of the globalization of the automotive industry is that the vast majority of cars are all competitive with one another, in terms of the larger goals. They all have decent drivetrains, assembly quality is light-years ahead of what it was 10-15-20 years ago, emissions and fuel economy are absolutely fantastic at almost all levels.
That said, they (as a whole) have only a few technological toys to distinguish themselves from one another, and of course, reputation/heritage. Many pixels are spent describing the horror that is the Mercedes CLA, but it only follows the common FWD sedan formula. It meets all the other targets that any Malibu, Camry or Passat meets, but since it wears Gottlieb Daimler’s three pointed star, it gets judged to a higher standard.
Time was, with exchange rates and other environmental differences, you got a really foreign car when you bought a foreign car. GM and the others could only compete on price and loyalty. Loyalty changed pretty rapidly, much to Detroit’s horror. However, once foreign makes started manufacturing in earnest in North America, they too started to decontent and compete on price alone.
We’ve noted here and other places about the formerly “fat” engineered Toyotas of the late 80’s and early 90’s, but the D3’s strategy of decontenting to maintain price and profits (barely) forced all the players to decontent. We’ve now gotten to the point where car makers are adding content back into their products to find some sort of differentiation, at least in the popular makes.
All this noted, I’ve largely stayed out of this discussion. I’m sure I’m known as a US Domestic cheerleader, and many of the previous posters have skewered the same targets I would have nominated. My personal experiences have lead me to the opinion that many of the Japanese cars don’t live up to the hype surrounding them. OTOH, I can say the same about Euro and USDM cars, too.
If our goal here is to make a list, and if many of us are saying that it’s hard to choose a Japanese car that’s as atrocious as, say, a Vega or whatnot, perhaps it’s worth defining what makes a car “worst.”
Would we be talking about a car with one major flaw? A car defined by mediocrity? A car which lost its predecessors’ good reputation? A car with atrocious quality all around?
A lot of Mitsubishis have been thoroughly average, for instance (Colts come to mind) but it’s hard to call them bad outright.
Or there are cars like the Suzuki Swift which many here would deride for being flimsy or slow, but those qualities are a trade off for their purpose as bottom end, efficient transport and can’t easily be called bad.
Then there are cars like the ’87 Stanza and Sentra which, like many cars from the late Datsun and early Nissan renaming era, were of high quality but dynamically average and indifferently styled, losing their competitive edge.
Putting together a list of ten worst Japanese cars across all brands and market segments (filters which might make the task easier) will require thoughtful explanation of most entries. As it is, I see a lot of deservedly loved cars listed (Samurai, MR2) which are hard to justify.
Seconded.
“Worst” is a pretty dimensionless term. Does it mean “the car with which you personally had the worst experience?” (Which is certainly fair — I doubt there’s any mass-produced product where someone hasn’t come away muttering, “Everyone loves these things, but it’s nothing but a nightmare for me.”) Does it mean “was a commercial flop through some failure of marketing or timing” regardless of whether the product was any good? Does it mean “the most ill-conceived”? Does it mean a Deadly Sin in Paul’s definition (i.e., a car that, whatever its virtues, remains a revealing symptom — if not the epitome — of some serious conceptual or organizational unwellness)? Does it mean “the car I think is ugliest”? (Which is also an entirely subjective consideration — in my eyes, some of y’all like some weird shit and I’m sure you would say the reverse is also true.) Or does it mean “a car that is so radically at odds with my personal tastes that I’m offended by its mere existence,” something we’re getting a lot of here?
There’s some overlap (especially between the last two), but these are obviously very different questions.
2nd worst car I owned: 1985 Civic S 5-speed, bought new, last year of carburetion. That POS would stall oh whenever it felt like it, usually at the worst possible moment. It took Honda over a year to fix it and then only when I was about to have it towed to the dealer and set on fire. They basically replaced everything under the hood save the long block & transaxle. I sold it not long after.
That was my last Honda. The two I had before it each had their own flaws, but none were life-threatening.
1st worst car was 1987 Audi 100/5000. Obviously.
My nominees are AU market cars, which are often different to the rest of the world.
Automatic Mitsubishi Magna, particulary the first generation. They tried three different automatics and none seemed to last.
Datsun 200B, poorly assembled, prone to all the quality/drivability woes of late 1970s emmision controlled cars, with a decided tendency to warp or crack the head.
I think these days most cars have caught up with Japanese quality, or are close.
The Datsun 200B replaced the popular 180B in Australia
the joke back in the 70s was that it had 20 more mistakes !!!
Man, this has got to be the longest thread ever!
I’ll credit this to: Having been told over and over and over and over that, back in the 70’s and 80’s, American cars were such pieces of crap that the companies should have just gone out of business as a favor to the country . . . . . coupled with a lot of the membership here who got really good service out of those self same pieces of “junk” . . . . . . toss in the other side of the myth, that Japanese cars were absolute perfection and only an idiot wouldn’t have bought one back then at no matter what the price . . . . . plus the too often unspoken reality that certain models (or at least individual cars) weren’t any better than the American competition . . . . . .
. . . . . . . and then we’re finally invited to trash all those supposed pieces of mechanical and marketing perfection . . . . .
Japanese car makers started off by being great imitators,a few decades later some became innovators.Yet all can see the significant reduction in style,quality and performance,par example Datsun 1600 to Datsun 180B.My first 1970 Peugeot 404 ute had done 500,000 miles when I bought it and was still on its original timing chain.I hate to think of the problems of future classics and their electronic armed systems.I often think that if you need a reversing camera then you have purchased a poorly designed product or you should not be driving.Cars just like other products are subject to the ever diminishing product life cycle.
On my way to an appointment this morning, on the freeway, 5 mph, stop and go, bumper to bumper, and what pulls up next to me but a mid ’70s Datsun pickup. Standard cab, short bed, cargo hooks welded to the side of the bed. It looked good. No rust, no body damage, the yellow paint was a bit faded. This truck had been on the road for 40 years. Talk about reliability. No, I don’t know what kind of repairs had been done to it, but someone obviously thought it was worth keeping on the road. And compared to a modern Nissan Frontier, that is twice as big, and doesn’t even come with a standard cab, it was a real beauty.
While it does not apply to all old cars and trucks, I have a feeling many of them that wound up getting scrapped could have been kept on the road for half a century or more had the owner actually wanted to, and for a lot less money than buying several newer cars/trucks during that time. After all, my ’72 Pinto is still going, and runs just fine. It is simple and easy to work on, and all mechanical parts are still available. And contrary to what everybody thinks, the body is still rock solid. I did have to replace the door hinges, but that is common on 2 door cars with long heavy doors. Everybody complaining about rust must be from the salt belt. Everything rusts to pieces in those areas. I don’t remember my sisters ’80 Celica having any rust or body problems, the engine finally wore out, but it could have been replaced. That car could have still be on the road.
I really can’t think of ANY Japanese car that was mechanically lousy . . . . in terms of STYLING, the biggest abortion to hit our (American) shores would’ve been the late 70’s Datsun F-10 (Cherry) . . . . .
I remember that up through the mid 1980s, any Japanese car, if you didn’t Ziebart/Quaker State rustproof it; undercoat it, wash and wax it religiously, it would rust from the top down and the bottom up (in Hawaii and Guam) . . . .
Yep, the F-10 was awful. So was the mid ’80s Nissan Pulsar. But as far as ugly goes, I think the Nissan Juke and Cube are the worst yet. The Cube looks like a washer and dryer, the Juke is just plain bizarre. It makes the Pontiac Aztek look like a real beauty. But really, they just didn’t rust here in Phoenix, AZ. They got scrapped because the cost of repairing them exceeded the value of the vehicle.
My worst memories of Japanese cars were:
Mazda RX4 – My wife and I needed a second car and saw an ad in the newspaper for heavily discounted RX4s. This was 1976 and I think the RX4 had been discontinued. The dealer asked us to meet him at the Port of Houston where they had a big fleet of new Mazdas sitting there. It seem like a very nice car with luxury touches but then I noticed that the cars had already started rusting in the Texas sunshine several miles from the Gulf of Mexico.
Mazda RX7 – 2nd gen – This was my teenage daughter’s car. She had purchased the car from my SIL, who was the original owner. One day while she was at work there was a great commotion out in the parking lot. There was a fire truck and a crowd had gathered around a burning car, her RX7.
My first Japanese car was 1979 Toyota Corona station wagon. Great car served us for about 10 years with no major problems. I do remember that the roof had rusting through where the roof rack was attached to the roof. I also remember the tailgate struts failing and calling dealer for a quote on new struts. $190. each. Later the a/c controls broke. I managed to get a replacement fan control from a junkyard and the off and on switch I replaced with a similar one from Radio Shack.
Since 2001 I have owned a 1994 Suzuki Swift GTi . No major problems at all mainly broken plastic interior bits.
Lots of intelligent, passionate, articulate discourse here. I don’t agree with half of it, but that’s OK. Thanks Paul, for stirring up the CC faithful. Is tomorrow’s topic the Worst European Cars? Unfortunately, that list based on my ownership experience would be longer than the Japanese list.
” you’ll see plenty of British cars. All of them horrid in their peculiar English way.”
That’s not true ! they ~ (stops , looks out window at 56 year old British Auld Crate)
Oh yeah ~ nevermind =8-) .
-Nate