Our recently expanded look at CCs For Sale had a serious shadow side that seems to erupt every time we show a picture of a donk. As in comments that are excessively negative and spill over into racism/stereotyping/generalizations/put downs/etc.. I understand that we all have our preferences in cars, and how they should be used/customized/modified. But (thankfully), it’s a free country in terms of creative automotive expression, and we might all try a bit harder to widen our comfort zone and avoid falling for the easy traps.
Here’s a suggestion: lighten up, and tap into your sense of humor or wonder. Isn’t this straight out of a fantastic dream or comic book, a kid’s toy in full-size? Wow; truly amazing. And who gives a damn how it drives or handles?
Let’s not forget that the whole point of artistic expression is to do something that hadn’t been done before, which of course explains why artists aren’t painting like the Rembrandt anymore. It has to always push some boundary, or it’s not art or creative. Don’t forget that lots of famous dead artists were hated rebels in their time. Young people have naturally always tried to push the envelope in the case of cars. The lead sleds of the 50s are the closest approximation of donks today; they purposely defied practicality to thumb their noses at that notion. The were an act of youthful rebellion and artistic expression.
The same applies to Ed Roth and his ilk. There was nothing practical or functional about his creations. He was an automotive beatnik, and he pushed the boundaries constantly. And those of us that grew up in the 60s thought he was eminently cool. The old school hot-rodders didn’t.
And it goes on and on, generation after generation. Low riders, ricers; the whole point is that these cars are challenging you to hate on them; that’s the reaction they’re trying to evoke from you, by going against all your practical arguments about camber, tire wear, handling, bearings, and other logical concerns. Old folks’ finger-wagging, and trying to be arbiters of ‘good taste’.
And in the case of donks, there’s the race factor, as they are disproportionately associated with African-Americans. Needless to say, comments about drugs, guns, bullet holes, liquor and other stereotype/racist associations are highly inappropriate and not welcome in the comments here. There were a number of them at the recent Olds 442 post, and I had to remove them. We know nothing about the owners of these cars. It’s a bit disappointing to see people fall for the trap.
And all the wailing about old cars being ruined for donks or other customization is a bit absurd. If you want to save every GM B-Body out there, go buy them all. Folks, it’s just an old car; as in a collection of steel and other bits. Most were likely in bad shape to start with. How many cars did you lay to waste in your youth, or otherwise cause their demise? They can’t all be saved, which is ok. How well are you taking care of your body?
1908 IH donk
A lot of energy goes into making any customized car. We live in a society that encourages individual expression, and customizing cars has been a popular outlet for that for a long time now. If you can’t find any appreciation for the effort that goes into them, just move on, but no strongly negative comments or put-downs, please.
The internet is all-too often an ugly place, and has exacerbated the divisions in our society, politics and even cars. But CC can be better than that, and hopefully be a unifying force for those that love cars. I’m not expecting pink clouds and unicorn farts, but let’s make an effort to expand the range of our appreciation and not forget that every car has a story, even a donk. And it’s worth hearing, or seeing.
All I’m gonna say is you sure got my attention with that Corvette donk.
Ok, I’ll add that you’ve reminded me that a lot of custom cars of the past were also wildly impractical. And, I certainly agree we don’t want to criticize the person or group of people who do things different than we prefer.
You’ve also gotten me to realizing, that whether we like someone else’s custom ride or not, it falls under the umbrella of Freedom of Expression. And, I’m thankful we have that right, and so many others.
My first thought was were does the owner store the stepladder !!!!!
That was a Corvette? Shhheesh… I thought it was a modded Dodge Neon (or similar), FFS.
I don’t know why anyone continues to speculate about when the “airless tire” will be invented. It has obviously already happened.
Acceptance and tolerance is always the answer (physical harm, etc. aside of course).
That said, when talking about stanced/cambered cars or donks, I’d prefer them to be ordinary cars, or other cars originally (from the factory) more suited to be cruising, since that’s what it’s mostly useable for after such a conversion. I tend to not prefer stanced/donk sports cars, since there’s no more sporting ability retained, but I don’t hate on them – one can merely not prefer them and not be spreading hateful messages.
What are those “tires” on the Caprice? Does anyone here know what those black strips on the wheels are? I’m guessing some sort of rubber strip that protects the rims but not something you can actually drive on? That’s the biggest wheel set up I’ve seen yet. And no, it’s not my style, but good for whoever created this car, that is definitely pushing the limits on how big of a wheel you can have and how low profile tires you can have!
It looks like a display setup.
I’m not a car customizer myself, but I so much admire the dedication, technical skills, creativity, and especially the humor of customizers. Ed Roth had a sense of humor, mocking the hot rodders through exaggeration and parody, and most of the hot rodders loved it. Local people here in Eugene do cars more modestly, but just as humorous. The Ford Taurus wagon in Mad Max style. There’s a local kid who built a Geo metro stretch panel van in which to transport his electric cart. Or, look at this sectioned Citroen by a real famous artist, Gabriel Orozco.
I’ve seen that Citroen in real life at Centre Georges Pompidou way back in 2007. I didn’t know anything about it, but I stood in front of it gawking with my mouth open for a good five minutes before my wife got embarrassed and pulled me away.
A car guy’s art piece definitely.
I saw it there too. A good mind-bender.
Paul, thanks. As a casual reader and seldom commenter I appreciate you taking the time to thump mouthy hateful egg-heads outahere! I believe that a free society cannot tolorate intolerance, and you do a good job of keeping this site clear of goons hide behind thinly veiled comment.
Your site is fun and informative, it has changed the way I look at a car, and made the may miles I drive each day more interesting. I would have dropped reading this a long time ago if I had to wade through the hatful muck like that
Cars in my experience fall under the “can’t judge a book by it’s cover” category. You may think you know who the driver is, but you may well be wrong. The more sure you are, the more likely you are mistaken.
I’ve seen lots of modifications that make me scratch my head, but I can’t say I have ever found a car to be boring. Ever. There’s something to wonder about or ponder when I look at any car.
For donks, I always wonder how you make an elegant entry or exit.
To each their own.i guess every generation has it`s ‘thing’ from customs of the `50s, muscle cars of the `60s, broughams of the `70s, underpowered downsizers of the 80s, low riders,tuners, rat rods,and now donks.If I say that I don`t like them, I`m not hating on them.They`re just not my thing.
Yeah, but how do they drive?
I’m mostly a lurker here but if it it’s interesting enough for someone to write it up by all means please post it, no slagging from me…
Thank you for this post, Paul. I do appreciate that the level of discourse is typically much higher than on other websites. A couple of the comments on the aforementioned post gave me pause, but I thought perhaps I was being too sensitive. Glad to see I wasn’t and that the comments in question were making some inappropriate implications.
I seem to recall a rule on here, maybe it was an unofficial one, that said we shouldn’t make fun of or insult an individual’s car. And that’s the thing, really, I feel a twinge of discomfort when I’m writing up a car and calling it bad (e.g. that Great Wall from the other day) because I think, “Oh no, what if the owner of that car sees my post and is offended by my criticisms?” And that’s just when I’m criticizing that particular model or manufacturer, which is perfectly reasonable, and not the specific car itself.
I imagine I’d be displeased if I modified a car, spending thousands on customization, and came across a post where it was being blasted for being hideous and people were making assumptions about me based on my car.
That being said, I think it’s fair to criticize somebody for asking, say, $50,000 for a car that’s worth $5,000. That’s fair game. But I think casting aspersions on the owner is crossing a line.
You’re right also about people decrying modifications. Yeah, I prefer cars mostly stock too but sheesh, do people really think there’s a huge market for ’77 Caprices outside of enthusiasts and car customizers? It’s not like the donk owners are outbidding hordes of other buyers at auction when they buy their old full-sizers…
William if you think a Great Wall is a bad vehicle wait untill you see one of the 46 Trekkas that were exported to OZ in the late 60s I saw a dead one in the back streets of Narrabri NSW in the mid 80s its likely still there nobody had any idea of what it even was never mind how to make it go.
THANK YOU!
I’m glad to see “art cars” being taken seriously by the motoring community — if that’s what these are, and what this is. The red Cadillac with rubber-band tires, for instance, must be a statement, not a daily driver, wouldn’t you say ? And the stripped body (look, Ma, no door handles !) is surely part of the act — as if to say “It’s all about the wheels, here. Look no further . . .”
And what wheels ! A serious labor of love, all to make a point; perhaps even to parody the donk as a type ? Only when we find out who made it, and why, can we hope to criticize, or to celebrate, what it really is — no ?
The last couple of donks I’ve seen have been driven by white guys in the Chicago burbs, it may have started as a part of black culture, but it’s borderline mainstream these days(as is often the case), it’s simply a look now. That isn’t to defend those who made bigoted comments(which, I agree there is no place for), but it just seems equally divisive to draw in a racial component to make a defense for it.
Let’s not forget that the whole point of artistic expression is to do something that hadn’t been done before, which of course explains why artists aren’t painting like the Rembrandt anymore. It has to always push some boundary, or it’s not art or creative
Is it really that artistic when multiple people are simply copying a preestablished look? Conforming to nonconformity? I’m an admitted cynic (or philistine) when it comes to art, but the leaders are the true artists, the followers are just that. Credit is always due to the pioneers, even Donks, and you know what? Credit is also due to the ones done with quality and passion. People still doing it 10 years later and slathering on bondo to cover up rust and bad workmanship don’t command the same respect. It’s like saying Poison is equal to The Beatles because both are rock and roll. Every car subculture has loads of bad cobbled together contraptions, hot rods, trucks, imports, etc. Donks that look bad shouldn’t get a pass, but what detractors need to recognize is that talent has no skin color.
And on that note, musical artist can sing or play an instrument better than most, an artist knows how to use paint brushes better than most, a filmmaker knows something or two about film making. Talent and art go hand in hand, otherwise it’s just childish scribbles.
Also, why is it assumed the “youth” are all 100% on board with these fads? 10 years ago half my friends (myself included) hated “ricers” in high school, another half of my friends loved them and hated the cars I liked. We were from the same socioeconomic backgrounds, were they more relevant than us? Was my faction of friends not rebels ourselves by not succumbing to peer pressure from the rest of the group? This isn’t an old codger vs. the kids these days generational divide. Maybe it was back in the 60s but car people have much more diverse interests than they used to.
+1 on all you said, especially the ” conforming to non-conformity ” phrase…
Hi XR7Matt, I tend to agree with you, but I don’t see you or most others here doing the same critique on the countless “Chevelles with a SBC” or similar copycat cars one sees at every car show as “copying a preestablished look”, but it happens with Donks, low riders, and stanced cars on this site, and quite frequently. Artistic expressions are created by someone for their own reasons, but artistic critiques are done by people who neither created the art or understand why it may have been made in the first place. Don’t confuse the artist with the critic. Maybe we stereotype the drivers of Trans Ams as mullet-haired rednecks, and drivers of “ricers” as punks, and drivers of donks as gang members a bit too casually, a bit too quickly, and without any backlash. That is where the entire “privilege” argument comes into play. Very few commenters said anything about the build quality of the donk in question, but tons made snide comments alluding to the presumed lifestyle of the owner. Question the qualities of a lifted pickup truck and you get a backlash like one could not imagine (and yes, it has happened to me) as they seem to be owned by white males.
Yes I do and have. The only difference is it’s like a broken record with SBC swaps, and going along with what I said about individuality, it’s not exactly something I feel I need to personally verbalize when a dozen others are making the same exact comment.
I never go after the lifestyles or cultures of owners if I’m critiquing a car, if I do it’s usually a fun jab(I know I’ve made the mullet/Camaro reference a time or two), but at the end of the day I don’t feel it’s relevant. It takes as much money and outside labor(in most cases) to donk a car, as it does to drop in a SBC, lift a truck, or stance a Miata. It’s not as if Donks are cheaper to customize, and if the workmanship and quality is poor, it rightfully should be critiqued, especially when the car ends up right back on the open market – custom cars don’t exactly get valued like a Rembrandt or get collected by art connoisseurs – So if I’m pointing out that the wheel openings were enlarged with a sawzall, I’m not going to check my privilege because the owner(or *ahem* the shop doing the work) were supposedly expressing themselves.
My objection is that one persons critique shouldn’t take precedent over the other, for any reason, we all should be allowed to express our opinions. I firmly believe in fair criticism, and it is possible to not be mean spirited with it. Some people plain lack tact, and and take their criticism way beyond the object in question. However, it dumbs down the whole of society when the response to those hateful people is that we ALL must put on an air of faux positivity for everything. It frankly comes off as patronizing.
Thanks, as I recall you do tend to be fair in your assessments, but others are not so kind. Please forgive if it seemed I was picking on you, as that was never my intention. I agree we can point out flawed craftsmanship, but art is in the eye of the beholder, so to each their own. The line does get crossed with racial/ethnic/class stereotypes that one would never utter in the presence of a person of the affected party. If everyone can just be a bit less mean, it would go a long way.
I beg to differ on traditional custom cars. Check out how much is being paid for tasteful, well-executed or historically significant ones and you’ll be surprised.
Sure, Donks are probably too young to be historically significant at this point, but I could totally believe 20 years from now there will be a niche nostalgia market for them.
The peril of clean, well executed, and historically significant customs is three things each however:
1) it’s clean because it looks mildly customized at best. Different wheels and a few details being the most obvious standouts from a clean original car. Many Donks do indeed fit this mold, as do restomods. People want these because they are, in essence, originals with some personalized touches that are reversible. These aren’t necessarily more valuable than purely original though, on more sought after models it actually consistently diminishes it.
2) It’s well executed because it has many high end/ top quality parts built by professionals. You may sometimes see these fetch high dollars at a TV auction, but factor in the profit margins for the builder/seller (parts, labor and how long they were trying to sell it for beforehand) and the value may not even break even. The trouble with customs like these is that by definition they are tailored to a specific person’s vision, and that’s a small audience.
3) Historically significant means just that. A custom car built 50 years ago and an identical custom car built yesterday aren’t equals, it’s basically a non-factor for the vast majority of custom cars that exist and will exist. If it’s a matter of period correct, that simply falls into the execution.
Not sure I like this “CC for Sale” thing, and I definitely am no fan of “donks”, but then it’s not my site. The freedom of expression thing goes both ways. If I really hate something enough to bother writing about it, that should also be covered under said freedom – short of being injurious or obtuse, of course.
Going back to the “donks” again, sure it’s ok to go to town on a GM B-body, but one day those will be in short supply. Try finding a stock Willys Americar – it’s virtually impossible, because virtually all the ones that survive have been customized, usually extensively and many years ago. So sure, it’s all harmless bad taste, but it can be a source of concern for automotive historians, especially because it’s so widespread. Still plenty of Beetles that haven’t been lowered and painted fluorescent green out there, but for how long?
I’ll probably skip donk-related posts. I usually skip posts about cars that I’m not interested in anyway. Just don’t let the donks and sales eat up the whole site, please.
right on
The question is rhetorical. I have zero intention of showing numerous (if any) donks for sale at CC. It’s not the focus of our site. But from time to time, cars like donks or other customized cars do show here at CC for one reason or another. And some of the response is inevitable.
As to the use of old cars for customization, it’s just how it is. How many Americars are needed in museums and private collections do that a 100 years from now the inevitable great demand to see Americars can be fulfilled? Is it my personal preference to see old cars cut up? No. But it happens, and has happened forever.
I’m enjoying seeing a contemporary style or two. The donks are weird to my standards, but whatever. They’re actually more familiar territory to me than a lot of the unusual Euro cars you have on here, but I still like checking those out too, even if I wouldn’t want to drive or own them myself. If you do more CC for Sale, maybe JUST do weird ones, just to tweak people a little bit. Hah!
Thanks for keeping a readable and nice forum.
100 years from now — probably less — there will be a donk exhibit at a car museum. Hell, there’ll probably be a donk museum.
I’m not a fan of highly modified classic cars, but, as you say, it happens and has always been so. I do have a lot of respect for good craftmanship, even if the final product doesn’t comport with my aesthetic preferences.
Case in point: my late father was a car nut (as was his dad). His pride and joy was a 1930 Model A hot rod. SBC, THM 350, Corvette IRS and — why? — a stock solid axle front end. Handled like a drunken pig on mescaline. Most of the interior was modified. Not my mug of beer. But man, did he love that thing. And the work that went into it was very impressive.
I do have to say, there is something defiantly American about a donk. A “F*** the rules, we’ll do it our way” ethos. And i very much respect that.
double the hate. hehehe
You know, you made me laugh out loud. With the picture and your comment.
I personally vote for MORE unicorn farts on this site.
(Just kidding Paul)
Well put Paul.
Every generation has to do something different from their predecessor. With any genre of car customization there are some expertly executed creations and some real hack jobs. Either way they are all automotive enthusiasts creating or trying to create their particular dream car, truck or van.
“QOTD: Are We Going To Be Able To Show Donks For Sale at CC?
And Other Cars That Are Outside of Your Comfort Zone?”
Yes, and there are none, bring ’em on.
Personally, I feel that “Donkers” did a great favor to the
” B ” and others as without the Donk following there were more of ’em than the number of serious enthusiasts needed to keep the value and interest up. Compare values of Donk material to their contemporaries that are not. The values of many (most?) of the era’s non-Donk-material are in the toilet. And with that even nice originals tend to wither away and don’t develop decent aftermarket/reproduction support. Said support of course tends to push interest and popularity and thus preservation and value.
Well said Paul.
I like donks, yes I do, I like donks, how about you?
In the coming autonomous car winter of beige appliances that deposit us safely at our destination unstirred, the sheer exuberance of a B body donk painted like a Captain Crunch box and riding on 38 inch wheels will be a sadly missed bit of human levity and passion.
My response to this sermon:
1. There are many sites devoted to donks, and ricers, and Mustangs, and exotics, and muscle cars, and all the usual scenes that are pumped ad nauseam.
There is little out there for the appreciation of just regular cars, and that is what made this site different.
2. It is MUCH more daring to say these days that you dislike a sub-culture, rather then simply white wash everything and demand that we must accept everything because if you don’t, you’re just a [insert label].
Indeed, I dare say this is a tinge of irony to state that you are intolerant of others intolerance.
3. I really do appreciate all those who maintain cars and attempt, vainly unfortunately, to keep clean classics, because not only do they have to deal with rust, mechanical self-destruction, and other old car issues, but they also have to face being derided as ‘purists’ or a ‘snobs’ just because you don’t want to thrash the sh*t out of an old car. Thank you to those who maintain oldtimers for all of your work.
4. I have no problem with folks wanting to do what they want to do with their cars. It’s their property. God speed. I just don’t have to like it.
I’m also pretty sure that the builders of said donks don’t give a flying f*ck what anyone on here thinks about their trade – detractors and fans alike.
Please let people like donks, ricers, proper restorations, rally cars, and so on, and please let people hate these same scenes.
There is enough intolerance out there, part of the reason I enjoy this site is that I don’t find that intolerance here. It’s a peaceful place (for the most part) and causes less stress in my life than many other aspects of it, and has caused some (many) readers as well as contributors to actually become more tolerant of others or at least cognizant and respectful of other equally valid but completely divergent opinions. Some can’t handle that and sooner or later move on. That’s too bad but better than infecting others and causing them to move on instead.
As I said in a comment further up, I have no intention of there being numerous donks shown on this site. The question is mostly rhetorical, as they and other customized cars do show up from time to time.
BTW, I had to edit out part of your comment because you fell for a negative stereotype assumption about the economic status and geographic location of donk owners. It came off as very condescending and patronizing.
It the part you edited out, there was no stereotype, rather factual statement. It was again neither condescending not patronizing.
If I stated that the golden age of opera came out of 18th-early 20th Century Europe, and was primarily a form of entertainment patronized by the ruling class and aristocracy, would that have been a negative stereotype?
If you think coming from a poor background or inner-city in inherently negative, well, perhaps that’s a you thing.
Donks as we know them today were not invented by the Amish. I’m not going to try to steal a car culture.
It’s like saying that there are jazz musicians of all ethnicities and nationalities and therefore it was not an art form that came out of the African American community. Sorry, jazz is great, and I give credit where credit is due.
It was not a factual statement. And your analogies are not directly applicable.An dI’m not debating it any further.
I personally don’t care much for “political correctness” and find that people seem to be on a hair trigger these days in taking offense at things. However this is Paul’s site; his property. We are guests and as such need to abide by his rules. Anyone here is free to create their own anti-donk, anti-SBC, or anti-whatever web site if they want to go that way.
Looking at the B&W 1908 picture, I’m reminded that the early cars weren’t even called automobiles at first, they were “horseless carriages”, isn’t that right? Because that’s what it sure looks like.
Actually I reckon the Caprice would look less silly with a team of horses in front of it.
Do I like donks..no. would I ever own one..no.
Does that really matter..no!
Why? Because the person who built it and owns it loves it and that’s all that counts. And that fact alone makes it worthy of being civil on the matter.
+1
I have no idea why anyone would want to turn their car into a donk – but it’s their car, their property, and they have every right to treat them as they wish.
Another thought – if an 80s Impala/Caprice etc is modded into a donk, that’s still much better than the most likely alternative (junkyard/crusher)… at least, theoretically, one day it could potentially be transformed back to stock…
That’s about as well as you can put it, Paul. In the end the core reason for my appreciation for this site is probably that it’s run by a guy who in the end has this view: “Folks, it’s just an old car; as in a collection of steel and other bits.”
Paul, you’re my hero.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1966-oldsmobile-dynamic-88-celebrity-ones-dynamic-expression/
Ciao dall’Italia.
Heavy lies the yoke of responsibility for Paul or anyone else in charge of a forum with a diverse readership.
In a time when it seems likely that any morning, we will wake to learn of someone using a curbside classic to transport a cache of weapons and ammo to a public place and leave spent shells amongst The American Carnage, discriminatory and hateful commentary has to be dealt with, one way or another. The parameters of censorship, even when done thoughtfully, present a minefield for a blog owner, but it’s a responsibility that cannot be shirked. Pointing out irony of having intolerance for intolerance has no value other than propping up a nihilist perspective; leaving defamatory rhetoric in view in a forum in the guise of promoting free expression is a cop out that invites devolution. There is right and wrong. It’s clear cut, and simple: it’s called the Golden Rule, and using it to to censor hate speech in a non political setting not only promotes freer expresssion, it promotes a return to the course syllabus,
We all love cars, else we wouldn’t be here. But we don’t get a pass on ignorant and/or incendiary comments based on assumptions of superiority. When such are edited out, we learn they won’t be tolerated, and the busniness at hand, Car Talk, can proceed.
You said what I was thinking as I read the comments. It seems that many overlooked the point of the post which is to state that discriminatory comments are not welcome here, not that CC is morphing into Donks R Us.
Criticize a car all you want, but don’t make assumptions about or cast aspersions
upon those who create/build/own them.
By all means let people have their own expression, but how can this be considered a functional car of interest to the majority of people who visit this site , just look at the responses ?
So what it is, a piece of car shaped art of some description, do the modifications improve the abilities of the machine or is purely an aesthetic change at the cost of functionality ?
I really enjoy the engineering and mechanical related articles, the tales of ownership and use on this site, that’s why I visit and hope to read more
Donks like these are no longer fit for purpose and of no interest to me, as has been said elsewhere, I shall skip Donk related articles in future
Do you want to kill a website because that’s how you kill a website.
Instead of using an Archer meme to voice your opinion, why don’t you elaborate on your position, because I really don’t understand how you think Paul’s post will “kill” the website.
In any case, IT’S HIS WEBSITE!
In any case, I sort of like the donk posts. It’s an interesting car subculture. And there is some pretty sweet craftmanship involved.
As a daily lurker on this site for 4 or 5 years, my distinct impression of Paul is that he would voluntarily kill this website without reservation before he would ever allow it to degenerate into a place that tolerates stuff like the “bullet hole” comments that were made the other day. That level of integrity – and the quality of discourse it promotes – is one of the reasons I still visit this site every day when I’ve given up on so many others.
What I’ve found amazing over the years is that on the rare occasions when Paul has needed to gently remind the readership of the house rules, there are always a few people who blow it out of proportion and try to make way more out of it than was intended. I didn’t see anything in his post that said “you can’t criticize donks” or any other type of car. What I read was, “be thoughtful in your comments and constructive in your criticism” — don’t be hateful. And comments that promote blatant, unfounded stereotypes won’t be tolerated. If I’m misinterpreting, I hope Paul will correct me.
If that’s too restrictive, there are at least a million other places on the internet where anything goes. As for CC — judging from the overall tone of these responses — it appears the overwhelming majority of people are good with the rules. Not sure how that translates to killing a website.
my distinct impression of Paul is that he would voluntarily kill this website without reservation before he would ever allow it to degenerate into a place that tolerates stuff like the “bullet hole” comments that were made the other day.
This is literally true.
Well said, Paul, I agree with your analogies of today’s customizing as analogous to the hot rod crowd of previous generations. Hot rodders took pride in their expression and rebellious views. It’s amazing it’s now mainstream. The fact those critcs cannot see this parallel in the HiRiser trend is depressing. Frankly for many generations older people have failed to understand the youth culture of the day, so criticism of today’s popular mods is depressingly normal.
I say understanding and acceptance is the philosophy to use. Go ahead and feature such HiRisers for sale. Some readers might just learn something new.
BTW, I hate to be ‘that guy’ but the term HiRiser is probably better to use than ‘donk’ as its more descriptive of the trend. ‘Donk’ refers to 71-76 Chevy Impalas, and strictly speaking, excludes all the other models out there. Also some donks are not modified in the controversial way discussed here, but HiRisers, by definition are.
Very much agreed.
Everyone is free to express their opinion, but do it in a civil way that doesn’t target, attack, or belittle anyone else or their opinions. No place for drama here.
The donk, stance nation, ricer, rat rod etc., etc. people are folks who have put time, effort and money into their rides. That makes them car enthusiasts, just like us. Let’s appreciate that, even if we don’t necessarily share their taste…….I have a lot more in common with a guy who loves his donk than someone doesn’t like vehicles.
The great thing about this site is that it is so eclectic- let’s keep it that way!
Some cars are hard to separate from the stereotype that they are associated with. Donks have been widely associated with urban African Americans the way low riders have been associated with urban Hispanics.
6 cylinder Mustangs and secretaries, Trans Ams and mullet-wearing trailer dwellers, pickups with gun-toting country music loving Baptists. Then there are the 9 passenger wagons and Catholics, black Cadillacs and east coast mobsters (How many bodies fit in that trunk) and Lexus crossovers and pampered suburban Mom’s.
Some cars are just cars while others seem hard to untangle from the different cultures in which they are often found. Quick, what first comes to mind when I say “Buick”?
I think the trick is to be able to recognize and sometimes poke a little innocent fun at a car’s connection with a stereotypical demographic without malicious or insulting swipes. Sadly not everyone can do this.
And that Corvette in the opening picture? Just wow.
Thank you for this Paul. In an era where criticizing bad behavior is itself criticized, its refreshing to read something that very effectively shuts down that line of thinking.
The perceived anonymity of social media has many terrible by-products, the breakdown of common decency being one of them. I enjoy this site because I see it as among the best of social media. Thanks for working hard to keep it that way, Paul.
You can post whatever you want on the site. I have found that if I don’t like or care about a subject, I can pass it over. I get hte email notifications and if it’s a bus or tractor, or something that doesn’t interest me, I don’t look at it. I would probably look at a high riser or stanced car just becasuse they pique my interest in why and how it was done. I remember the lowriders in LA in the 70’s. Chico & the Man had one in the opening and HotRod had some features on them. I read my uncle’s mags. the paint jobs and all tied to the movement with Cragar SS and white walls. I liked the workmanship in those even then. I knew they were special cars. I might have liked them more than the current Pro Touring cars with all their mods and tucked in bodywork.
So keep posting. And folks will hopefully not make too many improper comments. If you don’t like it, move on… ya know?
Paul, one might say the same thing about the slagging of the owners of low line, low optioned cars, or brands like AMC/Rambler.
The default response always seems to be in the elitist vein, and people’s inner snob seems to come out: “Couldn’t afford better”. “Cheapskate”, “Only people from the wrong side of town drove those”, or, as I read on another site: ‘ I am saddened when I see some old person in a Hyundai and think, ‘what went wrong in their lives”, as if anyone ever knows the financial status of someone driving a particular car.
It seems to turn into personal attack on the person who bought the car, his intelligence, whether or not the person has any taste, when no one has a clue about him. And that was the written or unwritten rule William Stopford was referring to: don’t attack the owner.
And since when was it a mark of bad character not to bury one’s self in debt to impress the neighbors ?
If, when I worked in retail, I leased a Mercedes, would it really have improved my “status” in the least because I could afford the payments ? At the same time the cable bill is two months overdue ? What would have I proven to the world ? How did that “status” help my bottom line, as my Dad used to ask.
No, people, do what you want to your cars. Many things are not what I might do, but there may well be ideas worth emulating, a paint color to consider. newer wheels, perhaps not to the extreme of donks, that would provide some discreet flash and tires that would improve the ride or handling.
Showing just simple good manners would alleviate a lot of what Paul mentions in his piece.
There are certain cars I have never liked featured on this site that are revered by some. I don’t get it, but I am not about to question someone else’s intelligence and taste because of it. Like many did with cars such as the Allstate and it’s owners.
Yet, even the cars I am not interested in have a legitimate and interesting backstory and I never fail to learn something new.
Besides, given the other sites I visit, coming to CC is a relief from the contest of seeing who can make the most inflammatory and insulting comments and I admire the folks who contribute and post here for their knowledge and personal memories.
I was sorry to read that the comments got out of hand on this post. As many others have expressed, I admire the fact that this site tries to be conscious of different viewpoints, tastes, and being tolerant.
However, while we’re calling out intolerance, can we please stop with the “reinforcing stereotypes” posts at CC? These posts don’t help with the cause that’s being addressed here.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/cc-wordless-outtake-reinforcing-stereotypes-3/
Scott: I do that purposely, very much with tongue in cheek. The whole point in posts like that is to point out how our responses to seeing certain cars are often reflexive. Which is exactly why I chose to title them that way.
Frankly, I often have a hard time getting my tongue out of my cheek. I find being too serious about things like old cars is a bit too….serious.
Paul, thank you as always for calling attention to these issues. Better that than letting them go on and lose the civility that is a hallmark of this site.
As to the subject matter, I respectfully say that this site has largely (not totally) focused on stock and near stock cars, and has largely presented modified cars in a humorous tone (the Cutlass Ciera “Rubies and Gold Edition” comes to mind). That past approach has played a role in attracting like minded people (myself included) that tend to not take certain appearance mods very seriously. I try to refrain from making disparaging remarks (I didn’t read the recent Cutlass Supreme article), but I can appreciate how others might be tempted to opine.
To summarize, I don’t have a problem with the broadened horizons, but they are unlikely to attract much interest from me. I think a good approach for fellow commenters is the old adage “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”.
No worries. We’re not turning in Curbside HiRisers.
Well said.
I’d really like to see COAL (DOAL???) from somebody who actually owns a donk. Any donk drivers out there?
Hooray for creativity. Hooray for tolerance. Hooray for inclusiveness. Hooray for civility. Hooray for Curbside Classics!!
The Ultimate Donk.
Personally, my favorites are ads posted by semi-literate hillbillies.
Lots of malapropisms -eg “Concourse correct”, “factory “upper windows”
(opera) eg 2 “buket seats and counsel”
Spelling errors of course-eg “new breaks” “duel exhaust”
Dillard level tech misunderstandings eg “3/4 race cam”
Overly optimistic opinions of condition eg “ran when parked” (on the manure pile
down by river behind the chicken coop, 20 years ago!
Overly optimistic estimates of future value eg “lots of pontental” “future collicters item”
Overly optimistic opinions of restoration ease “90 percent restored” (translation-Earl
Scheib paint job)
Like that!
I gotta* admit, to getting too much entertainment value out of bad grammar and the other Craigslist faux pas you mention. Aside from that, it’s just bad salesmanship. If you’re asking several thousand dollars for something, it’s probably a good idea to give your ad a good proofing.
*See what I did there?
Agreed. Donks aren’t really to my taste, but I try not to fault other people for having different tastes from me. I don’t like sushi all that much either, but that doesn’t mean people who do like it are bad. I think this very good lesson a friend of mine taught her daughter is appropriate here: “Different doesn’t mean bad, it just means different.”
I imagine that the customization of model T bodies was just as outrageous and invited just as much stereotyping and prejudice as donks do now. The same goes for VW Bugs. To paraphrase a saying:
“I may not care for your automotive taste, but I will defend to the death your right to express it”
If you don’t like a post, then click on by. Don’t be uncivil.
Case in point:
Ha! Nowadays the phone would actually work.
Thanks Paul for a note of wisdom. But, would I be spilling over into negative stereotyping if I expressed amazement that the pictured Miata has Oregon plates? Surely not in Eugene!
That Miata (a travesty to this Miata owner, but hey, whatever) is almost surely from The Red Door Meet, inner eastside Portland. (CC here.)
“I’ll be glad when they invent rubber tires!!” – Fred Flintstone.
Considering that many younger people seem to be into mobility, self-driving, driverless cars or Uber/Lyft, I’ll take a few donks. I can appreciate the imagination and creativity that went into them, even if raising the center of gravity that way – along with unsprung weight and the negligible sidewalls makes the car downright dangerous…
I’ll never forget back in the 70s, how one aunt of mine just couldn’t understand why I’d spend $25 on a pair of “megs”…
“They’re MAGS. Magnesium wheels.”
It was like talking to the wall…
If you can’t say anything nice about someone’s custom car, don’t say anything at all…
I was emailing with a guy from Germany and he said that you have to get government approval to change the size of your tires and it’s quite a hassle. It made me thankful I live in a country where I can put absurd tires and wheels on my car any time I feel like it. I do love America’s culture of auto individuality, and I even love to hate a lot of the cars that result. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Indeed. I grew up in Israel (NO modifications allowed) and now live in Austria (modifications are up to a point allowed, but have to be approved). Be thankful you all live in a country where this type of government interference is limited.
If you don’t like them, don’t worry as you don’t have to have one, but everyone is and should be free to enjoy what they want.
Just because something is outside your comfort zone or personal interests does not mean it is anything that should be discouraged, unwelcomed or that the proponent should be subject to prejudiced or stereotyped criticism or abuse. It’s called being civilised.
When I see that stuff on display, I most often smile and take a closer look. My issue comes when I see them on public roads. That doesn’t just apply to donks.
During the 1930’s, Plymouth offered a 20″ wheel options for rural mail carriers to raise ground clearance for their cars on the generally poor rural dirt roads on which their route deliveries were. Never considered they were “donk”. Are urban roads so bad they need higher ground clearance…….?
Here in Houston, you could actually probably justify a donk for driving on some of our terrible roads. Also for driving through our floods. Much more practical than a low rider!
while i have no reason or desire to own one i am fascinated by “lowriders” with the hydraulics (maybe that’s redundant?). i wouldn’t expect CC to make them into a recurring appearance but a technical article on how these are built would be to me a very interesting read.
Well said.
I was challenged by some of the comments I saw about the donk Cutlass the other day. Donks don’t interest me, but recognizing that a family member of mine has a Hispanic significant other that is into very customized vehicles, I’ve come to appreciate that even if not my cup of tea, a ton of artistic work and sweat goes into some of these vehicles. I regularly see Facebook entries about how her boyfriend’s truck has won a show prize, etc.
Frankly, he’s too busy working to afford his hobby, and working too hard on his hobby to have time to be a menace to society.
Stereotypes about vehicles really are a bit dreary. My driving a late model F-150 has about as much to do with my genitalia as my dad’s genitalia had anything to do with his driving a succession of very full-size cars years ago. Ask me about my boats, large family, snowy drives to work, my (former) rental property business and my over six foot stance, and you’ll understand my truck better.
Love the 1908 Donk! Back when they began to replace the horse, it seems most if not all cars were …Donk-ey?
What’s the adjective for something having the qualities of that noun?
That top photo looks soooo fake.
The yellow on the wheels looks like a poor photoshop
The side pipe doesn’t look right either
There is also a clear shadow of the side mirror on the side of the door, but no other shadows in the image
Here you go, the original images and from different angles (it’s the DONKey King)
http://just-spinner-rims.com/donkey-kong
If only they would’ve perched a Mercedes on top of those rims. 😉
We all have our prejudices, and blindspots, our unrecognised corners of ignorance. The mark of how decent a person you are is how hard you work to counteract them.
In my own case, I expect it to be a lifelong work, and to be done imperfectly.
To those who made inapt comments – I didn’t see them – it could easily have been me, though probably not on this topic and hopefully never about race.
Though on this topic, I have always assumed the high risers or donks had a big dollop of humour to them.
Do I “get” them? Not at all, but I was a child who found distorted Hot Wheels toy cars annoying. My purple Mercedes pagoda had stupidly big wheels, donks for sure, and I didn’t like it at five. A bit uptight then, and probably still. Personality traits possibly do not shift greatly through life, but attitudes and learning does, they must, or there has been no life.
CC is indeed a refuge from the madness. That is for me the single greatest appeal. If a shop, the smaller sign would read “Eccentric Interests Intelligently Catered For.” In small print, “Bullies and High Pissers Not Welcome.”
A heartfelt credit to PN and all those who edit and write the stories. Even the donk’s tale, or anything else I disdain. And if I comment on somesuch, I will try to do so having thought a little about my own thoughts first.
Curbside Tragics
Late to the party here, but I’m reminded of when Jeremy Clarkson filmed a segment with a younger set of car customizers somewhere in the UK — a group we in America would probably label derisively as a “rice rocket” crowd. I expected Clarkson to launch into a tirade about the ludicrousness of their designs, the impracticality of their modifications, and other clichés you hear in real life and read on the internet. Instead he made the better and larger point: here are some young people who love cars.
Look around you. How many young people are still enthusiastic about automobiles in general, let alone old iron, largely from the 70s and 80s? We should be celebrating their efforts and creativity. Furthermore, many of these donks would end up in the crusher otherwise.
I don’t really care what they’re doing to the cars. In fact, personally, I find the millionth Chevy-powered hot rod blandmobile to be much worse, where they strip away all chrome, original interior, and other defining characteristics. But that’s my personal take. If you’re still angry, note that donk enthusiasts tend to leave the body and interior rather unchanged. Most of these cars could be reverted to stock much more easily than the hot rods I described and many people laud.
Regardless, the aversion to donks reminds me of the aversion to low riders when they came out of Latino communities. By most measures, they were no different than what mostly white modders were doing in earlier decades. The real reason for bias against the lowriders was obvious.
As to the practicality of donks, yes, granted. But one, who cares? And two, many of us don’t have a leg to stand on. Was it practical for me to put an aggressive sports suspension on my sports car, one that required me to take every speed bump or driveway at an angle? Where every pothole could result in the need for another alignment job? No. But I wanted my car that way, and to me, it looked really cool. The ride sucked for daily driving, and I damaged the underside in minor ways, but I still loved it. I’m sure these guys feel the same way about their creations.
Yup.
I imagine that it’s a hard line to walk determining the mix of posts to include. Paul has invited us to a party at his place. A good host wants to provide a good mix of people but he has no responsibility to tolerate boorish behavior. The guests should always behave in a manner that allows the other guests to have a good time. I want the party to continue.
+1 Nicely put.