Welcome curbivores, to another year of New York auto show coverage! My trek to the Javits Center took place on April 25th, 2019. Fitting, as it marked the one year anniversary of Ford’s earth shaking announcement that it was backing away from passenger cars. Ford and Rivian also announced a tie up the day before my trip. There really is no mystery as to why part one is structured the way it is, so strap yourselves in and get ready to see some cars!
Obviously the new 2020 Explorer was featured prominently in Ford’s section. It’s also worth noting the extra attention to detail Ford put into their display this year. They’re certainly not alone in this regard, as you’ll see in future posts, but they did a great job at making their area feel unique, with literal shipping containers forming a border around their space. In this case one of those containers also had an Explorer in it.
The new Explorer looks quite a bit like the current model. Surprised? Don’t be. The nearly dead nameplate went from forgotten relic to segment leader with its fifth generation, and nearly ten years after its debut it’s still selling extremely well. Ford isn’t going to radically alter what works. And they don’t really need to, as they did a great job with the exterior design of the fifth generation. Then again, I don’t think any generation of Explorer has looked bad.
You may have noticed something else was off with the previous picture. Your instincts were correct. Ford decided to chop an Explorer in half to show everyone its guts.
More specifically, they opted to cut up an Explorer Hybrid to show off its packaging. As you can see, the battery will sit underneath the second row passenger seat. It’s going to be connected to the Ford 3.3 liter V6 that is used in the base F-150. And it will also use a modified version of the ten speed automatic found in the regular Explorer. It will be available with all wheel drive.
No word on fuel efficiency numbers, but the hybrid will have a combined rating of “at least” 24 mpg, which would put it five miles per gallon ahead of the current all wheel drive model. In terms of output, Ford is claiming 318 total horsepower for the unit, which is eighteen more horsepower than the gasoline model, which will come standard with the 2.3 liter EcoBoost four cylinder. The only thing curious about the hybrid is its lack of availability in anything but the Limited trim. I suspect that is due to a special variant of the Explorer that Ford wants to get out right at launch.
A lot of people were baffled as to why Ford would switch the Explorer back to a rear wheel drive platform. I think it makes a lot of sense for the company. It makes the Explorer more attractive to law enforcement, who probably prefer rear wheel drive vehicles. And it also allows the Explorer to share powertrain components with the other rear wheel drive vehicles in its lineup, most notably the F-150. The Explorer gets the 2.3 turbo and the ten speed automatic from the Ranger for its standard engine, after all. And the 3.0 EcoBoost V6 is just a variant of the 2.7 liter V6, which is currently the most popular engine choice in the F-150 lineup.
Oddly enough, that is not the standard engine for the Police Interceptor Utility. It’s the Hybrid AWD system that will be the standard powertrain. It seems Ford is positioning the police variant to be something of a triple threat: fuel efficient, all weather capable, and with lots of horsepower to boot. I imagine the new model will be popular with municipalities if it gets good EPA ratings, and if it doesn’t spew carbon monoxide into the cabin.
For 2020 the Explorer Sport bites the dust to make way for the ST. The performance model will gain the 3.0 EcoBoost V6 that currently sees duty in the Lincoln MKZ and Continental. It will have the same output too, with 400 horses and 400 Ib-ft of torque. I assume the ST will run 0-60 in the low five seconds due to the ten speed automatic.
It really seems like Ford has an Explorer for everyone. It’d be hard to imagine a scenario where Ford loses the top spot to something else, especially given the growth in interior dimensions due to a six inch wheelbase stretch compared to the 2019 model.
Remember when I said that Ford made more of an effort with its display this year? In addition to the shipping containers, they also had a quasi theater area for some sort of show for the 2020 Escape, complete with bleacher seats. I didn’t stick around for the show, because I assumed it was just the usual pomp and circumstance that generally surrounds a new model.
It was very interesting to see how different automakers approached the redesigns of their popular crossovers. It seems like all the manufacturers are either focusing more on street oriented designs or gravitating towards an off road aesthetic. Ford opted for the former with the Escape, but the latter with the Explorer.
And why shouldn’t they? It’s an attractive design that could feasibly attract Focus and Fusion owners. It should also be fuel efficient. The base engine is a 1.5 EcoBoost three cylinder with 180 horsepower and 177 Ib-ft of torque. That is one more horsepower than the 1.5 EcoBoost four that is available in the current model, and the weight savings, combined with a cylinder deactivation mode, should help the Escape sip gas. The other gasoline engine is the 2.0 EcoBoost four, which carries over from the current Escape with basically the same output: 250 horsepower and 275 Ib-ft of torque. The 2.0 will be AWD only.
The big news is the return of the hybrid model, complete with AWD. The regular hybrid will pair a 1.1 kilowatt-hour battery with Ford’s 2.5 liter four cylinder. Two electric motors and a planetary gearset essentially give the hybrid system a continuously variable transmission. The hybrid powertrain is all new.
The regular hybrid’s battery sits under the passenger seat and is about the size of a briefcase. The plug-in hybrid will have a 14.4 kWh battery that obviously takes up more space, apparently enough to prevent the model from having AWD. Output for the regular hybrid stands at 198 horsepower while the plug-in is rated at 209. No EPA figures are available yet, but Ford claims it should get around 38 mpg combined, which is competitive with the Rogue and RAV4 hybrid models.
I didn’t get a clear pic of the interior, so I grabbed this screenshot from Ford’s website. Overall, I’d say it’s a substantial upgrade over the current model, and with an optional head-up display and sliding rear seats, it should make a compelling choice for those looking for a compact crossover with some verve.
The 2020 Ford Mustang also gets some notable additions. First up is the High Performance package, which is equipped on the above Twister Orange Mustang. Basically, Ford tweaked the EcoBoost 2.3 four to work more like it does in the Focus RS. It gains twenty more horsepower and a whole bunch of modifications to make peak torque arrive at a lower RPM. The Mustang also gets some suspension upgrades as well, with the option to further upgrade it with the EcoBoost Handling package. That package adds a Torsen limited slip differential, MagneRide dampers, and wider tires, along with a few other things.
The High Performance Package also gets a quad exhaust setup. If I were in the market for a Mustang, I’d probably get this one. I just don’t have the need for all the horsepower in the GT, especially since this model has a 0-60 time of about 4.5 seconds.
Of course there is also the Shelby GT500 to talk about. With a claimed output of over 700 horsepower, the GT500 will be plenty fast, with power coming from Ford’s 5.2 liter cross-plane V8 with a supercharger strapped to it.
But perhaps the biggest news is the exclusion of a manual transmission. In its place is a Tremec seven speed dual clutch transmission, which is all new and apparently designed specifically for the GT500. Purists may cry foul, but that gear box will probably contribute to the Shelby achieving some impressive drag strip times.
For the first time ever Ford followed its competitors by banishing its trucks to the lower level, with some exceptions. The outlier was this Ranger, which looks suspiciously like a Raptor. Ford is either trolling those who want one or previewing a future Raptor. There is a Ranger Raptor available overseas, so the odds of it happening are better than none.
Ford also had this Ranger hoisted up for people to gawk at.
And the GT made another appearance at the show, complete with Gulf livery.
I’m pretty much required to post this, right?
I’ll cap off the Ford section with the 2019 Ford Fusion Energi. You won’t see the Fiesta, Focus, or Taurus at the show anymore, but the Fusion sedan still makes an appearance, at least until it morphs into an Outback fighter, which is something I hope is still happening.
Ford debuted the 2020 Escape in early April, presumably to give its Lincoln platform mate some breathing room to debut in New York. Say goodbye to the MKC and hello to the Corsair! With the MKT going fleet only and the probable demise of the MKZ, Lincoln’s lineup will soon completely excise the horrible alphabet soup names. More luxury automakers need to follow suit.
Aside from the switch to actual names, Lincoln’s reputation has risen based on the buzz surrounding their newer vehicles. The Continental and Navigator were part of the first wave, and the Corsair and Aviator will be the second. Which one will outsell the other? Hard to say, but they will both be popular.
That’s because Lincoln’s designers wisely decided to let the Navigator aesthetic trickle down to its other utility vehicles. On the Corsair, the design takes it to a whole different plane of existence when compared to its Ford equivalent. Even with the Aviator and Navigator you can see a bit of the commonalities shared with their Blue Oval counterparts. Not here. I think that might be due to the size of the Corsair. It looks huge for a compact crossover, close to the Nautilus in size. Obviously that is not the case, but Lincoln did a great job at making the Corsair look substantial.
The Corsair will ride on the all new C2 platform, which the 2020 Escape will also use. And it does retain a bit of the rear end of the MKC, complete with the clamshell design of the rear hatch. Oddly enough, the powertrain options are perhaps the least interesting bits. The Corsair will keep the two EcoBoost four engines that currently see duty in the 2019 MKC, which are the 2.0 and 2.3 turbos. The 2.3 will actually see a five horsepower decrease to 280, but that is still more than most of the competition, and the new eight speed automatic will most likely result in a better performing vehicle.
The Corsair also has its own unique multi link rear suspension, which should help it stand out from the Escape. In addition, the crossover will have the “phone as key” option, which will be similar to Tesla’s system in that it negates the need for any type of fob.
This is about the best shot I could get of the interior. But if you’re familiar with the interior of the Navigator you’ve basically already seen it. I assume the quality will be similar to its bigger sibling as well, which should put it at the top of its class.
The 2020 Corsair is pretty much guaranteed to be a hit for Lincoln in both the United States and China. And Lincoln seems to be betting that it will, as the crossover will bear the distinction of being the first Lincoln to be built in China.
The Volvo XC90 and Audi Q7 should be looking over their shoulder, as the Aviator is set to shake up the three row luxury crossover segment in a big way. It’s got dynamic styling and some compelling features that will no doubt attract new buyers to the brand.
The all new Aviator shares its platform with the Explorer, and its standard engine is the 3.0 liter twin turbo that is available on the Explorer ST. Here it also makes 400 horsepower and 400 Ib-ft of torque, mated to the ten speed automatic. The Aviator will also use this engine with a plug-in hybrid model that will boast 450 horsepower and an eye popping 600 Ib-ft of torque. Obviously that setup will be all wheel drive only.
The interior looks just as superb as the one inside the Navigator.
Pricing is extremely competitive. At $52, 195, it comes in substantially lower than the 329 horsepower V6 Audi Q7, which starts at $60, 945. It also undercuts the XC90 with its optional 319 horsepower four cylinder engine by about $5,000. It’s not even worth mentioning the Cadillac XT6 because I had a chance to sit in one at the show and it doesn’t stand a chance against the Lincoln.
I’d say it’s likely that the Aviator will print money for Lincoln. The only problem I can see is the Chicago plant not having enough capacity to meet demand, as it will be busy building the Explorer.
Lincoln’s Continental Coach Door Edition also made an appearance at the show. Unlike Paul, I don’t think this is a stupid gimmick made out of desperation. It’s simply a nice tribute to the Continental of yore. Besides, they sold out of all of them immediately.
Aside from some rear seat specific accouterments, this is basically a Black Label Continental with every option checked. Not really a bad thing, especially given its status as an 80th anniversary tribute to the nameplate. I’m curious if we’ll see another generation.
The final leg of part one takes us to Rivian. In fact, it’s this company that made me choose to write about Ford and Lincoln first and so soon after actually going to the show. That’s due to Ford’s $500 million investment in the company. This is potentially a seminal moment in the history of both companies, and it further ensures that Rivian will actually be able to deliver the vehicles it’s promised.
It’s pretty obvious why Ford decided to hitch their wagon to Rivian. Their skateboard platform contains four electric motors that are able to send 147 kilowatts to each wheel. The three batteries available on both the R1S and R1T will be 105 kWh, 135 kWh, and 180 kWh, which will result in a total range of 200+, 300+, and 400+ miles, respectively. These are all seriously impressive specs.
The partnership will eventually produce a Ford branded vehicle. But the Blue Oval will apparently see the benefits of their partnership almost immediately, as the tie up apparently enables Ford to launch their future EV crossover more quickly then planned and for less money. It’s unclear exactly what kind of vehicle Ford will develop from Rivian’s platform, but I’ll just take a shot in the dark by saying it’ll be some type of electric Bronco or Wrangler.
Ford basically scored a coup against GM, who wanted exclusivity if they were to partner up with Rivian. Regardless, CEO RJ Scaringe stated that while the company will seek out partnerships with other organizations in the future, it’s presently focused on strengthening its existing relationships. Basically, that means Rivian is going to help Amazon and Ford do whatever they’re setting out to do. Ford basically got partial exclusivity without asking for it. I imagine this immensely benefits Ford, because Amazon obviously doesn’t have any experience building electric vehicles. Ford probably has a bright future in electric delivery vehicles is what I’m trying to say.
And what exactly does Rivian get out of the deal? Access to Ford’s dealer network. Why set up an entire sales and service distribution model when your corporate partner already has one? I’d be stunned if Rivian does anything differently than deliver its models at select Ford and Lincoln dealers.
Will the R1T be a truly disruptive truck, or just some toy for the wealthy to tool around in? Even if it’s the latter, Rivian has built a pretty incredible vehicle. And the benefits of the electric platform are immediately apparent once you take a look at the packaging. Pickup trucks have large beds but otherwise cargo space is at a premium. With the R1T, buyers will get a trunk. How cool is that?
There’s also this neat pass through, which can hold golf clubs or guns or some equipment. And the doors are designed to hold your body weight, so they double as steps that allow owners to access the bed.
The R1T will boast an 11,000 pound towing capacity and a 1700 Ib payload rating. I briefly talked to a Rivian spokeswoman who was clad in a green shirt just like the dude in the above picture. It was a refreshing departure from all the spokespeople decked out in very expensive formal wear. Anyway, she said using the R1T to its full capacity will reduce the range by half. I was kind of surprised they’re even divulging that information now, but you heard it here first. 200 miles (with the top tier battery) for heavy towing and hauling isn’t bad at all.
And in case you didn’t know, every Rivian you see is the exact form that customers will receive. These are not concept cars.
Feast your eyes on the platform that is poised to make history for both Ford and Rivian.
Perhaps the most disappointing thing about seeing Rivian in person was the fact that there was no mystery. The vehicles look exactly like they do in the pictures. Given the state of electric vehicle startups, that is actually a good thing.
I’ll conclude part one with the view a person received when walking inside a fake support beam that Rivian constructed near its display. It seems the company kept a nice symbol for their sky high aspirations close by when they were in New York. I don’t blame them.
Related Reading:
Curbside Classic Visits The Hudson Valley Auto Show, Part 2 – go here if you want to read about my thoughts on the 2019 Ranger
“Ford’s $500 million investment in Rivian to yield new electric vehicle” by Micheal Martinez, Automotive News
Excellent work that shows that automotive innovation is not dead yet! I must say something though. It will be an interesting question as to whether His Most Musclebound and his ilk would be more apt to drive a Rivian R1T or a Shelby GT500 in the coming years. I personally think that it could go either way, due to demographics and all.
Not a fan of what Ford is doing. The rear wheel drive Explorer is going to make AWD almost a necessity again without gaining much if any “truck” ability and losing rear passenger space. They do realize practicality is pretty important in that segment, right? Interiors look like they pasted a tablet on the dash as an afterthought. And the new Escape is utterly generic and looks outdated to me.
I can’t figure out what they hell they are thinking these days. When it comes time to replace our minivan, I can’t imagine a Ford making the list right now.
The only thing they may have done right is the Rivian deal. But that remains to be seen.
From what I understand, the RWD Explorer has gained rear passenger space by lengthening the wheelbase 6.5″.
Interesting, the review I read said it was tighter because the floor was higher, particularly in the 3rd row. But I also see where Ford claims its roomier.
https://www.cars.com/articles/the-2020-ford-explorer-is-now-rear-wheel-drive-should-it-be-1420757001093/
See this Motor Trend article for more information. Baiscally, while the Explorer had a lot of room, the Volvo platform limited their ability to make more space, and the new RWD architecture actually improves cabin room quite a bit:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-ford-explorer-packaging-miracle/
Does not appear that MT actually sat in it, while cars.com did. Seems to be just their impressions though, so who knows how accurate that is.
I agree on the Escape, but I think they softened it to make it more palpable to the Focus/Fiesta shoppers who won’t find those cars at Ford anymore. Apparently there is a blockier, more off-road vehicle (“mini-Bronco”?) based on the Escape soon to debut….
Edward, great coverage! Lincoln is tearing it up as long as they keep quality under control. The Rivian seems very interesting, and apparently Ford is all in.
Edward: BroFaceMcMuscleMan!
Crow: Slab Bulkhead!
Servo: Fridge Largemeat!
Mike: Punt Speedchunk!
Crow: Butch Deadlift!
Crow: Bold Bigflank!
Mike: Splint Chesthair!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Mutiny
“We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese!” Railing kill!!!
BTW, this is in reference to the fellow in the 3rd photo, who was originally mentioned in the article text. If you don’t get it, never mind. I’m just glad one person did..
In a prior posting about the new Continental with the suicide doors, some made mention that the B-pillar was it needed some type of adornment. Looks like Lincoln tried to mask the naked pillar (2nd picture of Contenting), but it looks tacked on instead of blended in.
http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/industry-news-and-analysis/todays-industry-act-of-desperation-continental-sales-are-plummeting-solution-offer-suicide-rear-doors-for-an-extra-53k/
I’ve said it before but it should be repeated since people keep perpetuating incorrect information. The base Police Interceptor Utility is not a Hybrid. Here is the vehicle quote sheet from the winning bidder in my state. The Hybrid powertrain is a $3302 option.
Regarding the Rivan investment it will not accelerate the timeline for Ford offering EVs, at least not substantially. The only thing it may do is may slightly accelerate the introduction of the EV-150 since having a member on the BOD will give them access to the planed launch date of the Rivian pickup. The engineering is done or almost done on the EV-150. You can be certain that Ford will do what it takes to make sure they can claim they have the first full size EV pickup.
Additionally Ford is not intending to rebadge Rivian products. From their press release here https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2019/04/24/rivian-500-million-investment-ford.html
“Ford intends to develop a new vehicle using Rivian’s flexible skateboard platform. This is in addition to Ford’s existing plans to develop a portfolio of battery electric vehicles. As part of its previously announced $11 billion EV investment, Ford already has confirmed two key fully electric vehicles: a Mustang-inspired crossover coming in 2020 and a zero-emissions version of the best-selling F-150 pickup.”
No way is Ford walking away from those vehicles that have completed the engineering phase and are in the process of heading to tooling. For better or worse Ford is not just going to walk away from those substantial investments and all of the work that has been done thus far.
I also don’t believe that the Rivian will be sold at Ford dealers per se, certainly there may be dealers who pick up a Rivian franchise but they will be purchasing that franchise from Rivian who remains a separate company at least for the time being. Rivian is almost certainly well along the process of creating their own distribution channels since they have been planning on introducing their vehicles sometime in 2020 most likely to be sold as 2021 vehicles.
“Incorrect information” – it’s posted on Ford’s official site. And while I appreciate your picture of some sort of ordering guide I can’t update the post until I see an official announcement.
Also, check the Auto News article I linked at the bottom of the page. It’s stated that the deal with Rivian will allow Ford to speed up the launch of their E-SUV.
And I never said anything about Ford simply rebadging Rivian products or cancelling their current EV projects. Again, check the Auto News article.
I believe you are misunderstanding Ford’s use of “Standard” in this case. That does not mean that this is the base vehicle it means that it is a “Standard Hybrid” as opposed to a Plug-in Hybrid. No there is not a Plug-In version of the Interceptor Utility at launch, but don’t rule it out in the future.
They have the bits and pieces to do so as there will be a plug-in version of the Explorer for Europe and of course its platform mate the Aviator will be available with a plug. They also already offer a Plug-In Hybrid Police vehicle though only at the SSV level of equipment. That of course is based on the soon to be discontinued Fusion, I don’t expect Ford go without a Responder or SSV option that isn’t a F-150.
I’d post the link to where I got that screen shot, but the fact is it is not intended for the general public. It is for gov’t agencies and select non-profits to order their vehicles.
Interesting stuff here. Random thoughts: I never liked the Explorer’s styling as much as that of the Grand Cherokee or Durango. The new one is better, but doesn’t surpass my faves. Also, those block letters on the back of the Escape make the car look like a
D O D G E , at least the way they are IDd on the minivans. Good thing that blue oval is over those unreadable block letters.
Liking the Lincolns.
The Rivian skateboard chassis is really cool. It reminds me of the toy Motorific cars I played with as a kid where a self-contained chassis contained an electric motor and batteries, swappable under a multitude of bodies.
GM deserves to be acknowledged as the inventor of the skateboard EV idea, in their 2004 Hy-Wire concept, which used a hydrogen fuel cell and was conceived to be able to take different bodies on it.
GM was great at coming up with futuristic ideas, but the follow-through was typically lacking.
The Corsair or Aviator will be the next vehicle we purchase. The wife is leaning to the Corsair PHEV while the Aviator PHEV is currently my choice. Since it will be the vehicle she uses as her daily driver we will probably end up with the Corsair. The Escape is out of the running since they aren’t going to offer AWD with Plug-in capability at launch while everything I see says the Corsair, like the Aviator, will have AWD standard with the plug.
This Rivian logo looks like Renaults. I rememeber that Mazda once had a similiar one and they had to change it, when Renault sued them.
Fans of the Edsel Corsair will either be happy or disgusted.
So Ford isn’t going to have _anything_ that I would be interested in. No more affordable sedans like the Fusion, no more hatchbacks like the Fiesta or Focus which are what’s been in my desired price range. I have no interest in the Brobdingnagian Mustang I see, which almost exactly matches the specs of what’s been called the Bloatstang.
Specifications for the 1973 Ford Mustang
Wheelbase, inches: 109.0
Length, inches: 187.5
Curb-weight range, pounds: 3,560 with the 351CJ
Width, inches: 75.0
Specifications for 2019 Mustang
Wheelbase, inches: 107
Length, inches: 188
Curb-weight range, pounds: (base model) 3705
Width, inches: 75.4
It’ll be interesting to see who gets the sales Ford just abandoned. KIA? Hyundai? Toyota?
Ugh, agreed! The lack of criticism modern Mustangs receive for their girth and dimensions is infuriating when the topic of the 71-73s pop up. Mustang fans can’t even hide behind the cloak of retro to defend it anymore, its current styling has as many traditional Mustang elements as the 71-73s did, which is to say the current ones have more Fusion styling cues than Mustang the same way the 71s had more LTD styling elements than Mustang as well.
Give me a SN95 era car anyday. Light, compact and simple Fox chassis, good blend of modern styling with the right balance of retro cues and adequate performance at reasonable prices. Mustangs shouldn’t be competing with the Corvette.
I don’t really care for the current Mustangs either, but I believe the thought was to make them appeal more internationally. They did get a nice bump in sales initially. They weren’t able to sustain that, but I’m not sure that’s really so much the fault of the car or the muscle car market which is getting stale.
Well, they’re very popular in Australia.
Wow, I always thought the current Mustang seemed too big, but I had no idea how closely it compares with the much-maligned “Clydesdale” Mustangs from ’71 through ’73. We need a 21st Century Fox, but doesn’t seem like that will ever happen….
The “Clydesdale” Mustangs are (obviously) not all that big. They still used the original ’65 floor pan. The bodies were just was extended in length and in width some. They just looked kind of big at the time and in relation to the original Mustang.
IIRC, the generation prior to the current one was bigger and heavier. The current one was trimmed down to be more suitable for global markets, among other things. And it has been a big hit globally.
The 2015+ had enough structural revisions to designate a platform name change, but the dimensions and mounting points are mostly carried over from S197 to S550. The independent rear suspension and turbo 4 were the main international nods(even though the latter is apparently being outshined by the V8 in those markets).
Big hit is relative, internationalizing it got the Mustang to break 100k+ sales for the first time in nearly a decade but still never touched the totals of the New Edge generation or early Retro models. 2017 and 2018 sales weren’t any better than the 10-14s.
15-current
I don’t have time to look up the numbers, but my memory tells me that the current generation has sold very significantly better in export markets. as to total sales, well it’s pretty obvious that the sporty coupe market is essentially dying, or withering. Comparing to the past is somewhat meaningless. I think Ford is pretty happy that it’s doing as well as it is.
2013
because front wheel drive isn’t good for curb hopping.
Care to explain this? I never got the logic as to why this thought persists. As long as the suspension components are sturdy enough, FWD has no relevance to curb hopping, nor does RWD have any intrinsic advantages. In fact, I would assume that FWD has advantages in the traction to be able to help climb a big curb.
It’s a bit like the BOF thing: I used to hear the Panther lovers at TTAC endless go on about how only a BOF vehicle like the Panther was up to intense police work like curb hopping. Hello?
Anyway, these Police Interceptors are inevitably likely to be AWD, hence the front suspension/drive shafts are essentially the same as on a FWD-based vehicle, right? Or am I missing something?
FWD Saabs were winning brutal rallies back in the 1950s.
I’d guess that’s related to the simplicity and ruggedness of solid rear axles, which would be irrelevant with the new Explorer having IRS.
There’s absolutely nothing to says a solid axle is more rugged than independent suspension, as long as it’s designed for the job. Off road and rally racing cars and trucks have been using IRS for decades.
“Designed for the job” is key. These are family cars pressed into service duty.
Are you really suggesting police work is more demanding that what any modern AWD SUV/CUV is capable off in off-roading? Just because the overwhelming majority of SUVs don’t get taken off road doesn’t mean their suspensions aren’t capable of it. I’ve never seen the curb hopping issue other than what it is, a red herring. Any modern car can hop a curb. I’ve taken hundreds of horrendous pot holes on back roads in my xB at speeds so fast there was nothing I could except brace myself, as trying to avoid them at the speed I was going on a narrow gravel road could have been much worse. Teeth-jolting hard crashes. 15 years on, its front suspension as a tight as ever. It’s a Yaris with a bigger body.
The whole issue is overblown. Speaking of, a tire is going to blow before a suspension breaks from hitting a curb too fast or hard.
Designed for the job is key and the fact is the current Explorer was designed for the job of being a Police car. Not all FWD vehicles are up to the task, but neither are all RWD cars. Fact is the front suspension of the early Chargers was no where near as durable as the Panther at the time and while they have made improvements it is no better than the Utility Interceptor.
I agree with Paul that a bigger concern is the tires and/or wheels especially since police cars like all vehicles are trending to lower and lower profile tires.
Back in the 80’s when FWD cars were first pressed into police service they did not hold up. There were several reasons, not the least of which was overall size, but maintenance was also a factor. A solid rear axle was cheaper, handled abuse better, the RWD layout was easier to work on (better access, fewer alignments and wear items), and the cars themselves had better ground clearance. Many of the same reasons why trucks still have solid rear axles today.
I’m not exactly a Panther fan like so many on here, but there were reasons for its longevity in police and taxi applications even when it was badly outdated.
But again, that doesn’t apply with the new Explorer anyway. And yes, I am suggesting that most (not all) new CUVs are not really designed for heavy duty use in the first place. They are little more than tall cars. For an example, check out the modifications Honda did to the Ridgeline compared to the Pilot to make it suitable for truck duty. The chassis and suspension are beefed up considerably yet it still is the least capable truck in its class by a considerable margin. While it is certainly possible to make an IRS truck just as capable, it hasn’t been cost effective.
I suppose I fell for the rear wheel drive propaganda.
Me thinks so. 🙂
It’s one that’s hard to kill, no matter how hard I try. There’s nothing magic about RWD or BOF for ruggedness.
It’s neve been about ruggedness. It’s about repair costs. Fleet managers track repair cost histories. Back in the day, some earlier FWD platforms used in police work had higher repair costs per mile than RWD platforms. I saw this 1st hand when a fleet of new Chevy Celebrity Eurosport patrol units replaced our fleet of Plymouth Gran Fury patrol units.
I know this is not a fair comparison. There could have been any number of reasons WHY the Celebrities cost more to keep on the road starting with the fact the platform was a POS. GSA may have been the only fleet manager to ever buy Celebrities for police work. The car obviously wasn’t designed for it. Regardless, the maintenance cost increase was very real.
While FWD and RWD front suspensions may be equally susceptible to damage, the RWD ones were cheaper to fix. As the government tracked things, tire/suspension was the 2nd largest maintenance cost category after powertrain. Whether conclusions based on those admittedly arbitrary categories were warranted is open to debate, but the numbers were real.
Interestingly, the Feds didn’t let their own cost info influence future purchases. GSA continued to buy either FWD or RWD depending on the bid.
Fed cost experience was public record though. Other fleet managers could share and act on it if they so choose. Like many myths, this one does have some grounding in reality.
Apart from the Lincolns(especially the Continental)and the Rivians and the Mustang………it’s all garbage. They all look alike and aside of the tech which really is mostly designed to track you and invade your privacy, i wouldnt waste a dime on any of these.
Eddie after subtracting the Lincolns and Rivians and Mustang, that just leaves the Explorer, Escape, and GT. I don’t think any of those look alike…
Explorer looks for all the world like a Range Rover and you are correct about the GT, i was just focusing on mainstream vehicles. Todays tech although truly amazing for me, it just does’nt cover the lack of passion and pride in car design today. Back in the day i could look at a 71 Caprice and see some Cadillac in it some,now i can easily mistake a 3 series for an Accord.
I’d be stunned if Rivian does anything differently than deliver its models at select Ford and Lincoln dealers.
Prepare to be stunned. Rivian has said quite clearly that they plan to sell directly a la Tesla. I’m not sure Ford would welcome a direct competitor to its coming EV F150 and EV SUV/CUV in its stores.
I’m thinking you’re reading a bit more into this investment by Ford in Rivian than is actually likely. Rivian is 100% committed to its future independence. They absolutely do not want to become too tied up with anyone. That’s precisely why the deal with GM was scotched.
Perhaps, but I could see their relationship getting more involved. Ford has a lot of expertise building cars and Rivian could possibly lean on the company without becoming dependent on them.
Keep in mind that Ford is an investor in Rivian, with what, maybe 2-5% of the private shares, depending n Rivian’s current valuation. That doesn’t exactly imply a marriage or such by a very long shot.
It does mean that it makes it easier for the two to designate joint projects, but they still have to be negotiated. Ford is not exactly suddenly calling the shots here.
As to selling Rivians in Ford dealers, there’s several huge obstacles:
Why would Ford want a competitive brand and vehicle in their showrooms? Has anyone ever done this before? I’m struggling to think of a parallel. The closest would be Scion, but they were 100% Toyotas, even titled as such.
I seriously doubt Rivian would feel like their vehicles would be in the right environment at a Ford dealer. In this day and age, it’s all about branding, and I know you hold Ford in great esteem, but that’s not necessarily the case out here in the West Coast. The last time I set foot in a Ford dealer I swore never again. It was like being transported to another world that I had long left behind. Very different than the way the import brands ran their dealerships out here.
Rivian, as a new EV startup, is carefully cultivating its brand image, which is critical. I can’t even imagine letting a Ford dealer potentially destroy that for them.
Why wouldn’t the Ford salesman immediately steer you to the F150 EV or EV SUV?
Just remember: Ford is now a 2-5% owner of Rivian. Once Rivian does an IPO, that share % will be diluted. It’s not like they own or control Rivian by a very long shot.
Rivian’s CEO is way too smart to let himself be railroaded into anything by Ford.
Then perhaps Rivian could be sold/distributed at stand alone Lincoln dealers? I don’t think it’s that far fetched.
And Ford has been keen to make alliances with competitors even if the rival benefits greatly with the deal. Look at Ford and GM’s past cooperation with transmissions for example. And the ongoing agreements with VW have Ford building a variant of the Ranger for them, which obviously means they’ll compete with each other.
I could easily see a scenario where RIvian gets into a bit of trouble and reaches out to Ford for assistance. That exact scenario happened with Mazda in the late 80’s, correct? Ford was in a position to help out because the two companies had been building a relationship for years. Look at the CD3 Mazda 6/Ford Fusion and the Euro Focus/Mazda 3 as precedent. Ford seems ok with sharing resources as long as they benefit significantly from the deal. I think it could happen again.
BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac didn’t come to the Atlanta Auto Show. We had Lincoln, Infiniti, Lexus, and Audi for premium brands and then the luxury Kias.
As a confirmed Brougham man, the Navigator and the Kia K900 were the most impressive in terms of luxury. I am very, very, very unlikely to buy a 90-100K enormous truck, but it had a sort of loose pillow seating and very fancy interior appointments which felt very luxurious. I’m very unlikely to aspire to a $90-100K vehicle, but it at least felt aspirational, like if I had stupid amounts of money I might look at it. The Kias also had a pretty luxurious feel, but Kia also has the problem GM used to have of reusing parts from cheaper vehicles so your K900 shares switchery with a Forte or Optima, so the effect is somewhat scattershot luxury. But the luxury that there was was properly brougham tastic in terms of big, cushy, and massaging heated seats and separate consoles and such.
Ford has done a great job of distinguishing the Escape, Corsair and forthcoming-but-already-leaked “baby” Bronco. They’re built off the same platform but don’t have anything like the entirely shared center sections of, say, the original MKZ (nee Zephyr) and Fusion.
That being said, they should’ve put more effort into giving the Interceptor a clearly different face from the normal and (especially) ST Explorers. “You bought it to look like a cop” has been an issue with the Explorer Sport for the entire previous generation. The Interceptor should look utilitarian without at all trying to look badass; I’d explore (npi) the use of matte-aluminum paint or even unpainted yellow plastic in areas where retail-market models have bodycolor, black or chrome trim.
One point you undersold is that Rivian’s partnership with Ford can give them access to an existing, extensive dealer network which would allow them to sidestep some of the parts and service availability woes that have plagued Tesla owners.
I was trying to remember what car model was called Corsair but hadn’t gone to Google yet. That’s it!
I also forgot to copy my comment since it was probably going to be refused with a message about slowing down even though I hadn’t tried to post a comment since at least yesterday and that’s what happened.
I want to see production Rivian being delivered before surrendering to the hype.
I think it’s a big mistake to only offer the Hybrid on the Limited (top of the line?) trim of the Explorer, just as Toyota did with the current Highlander a few years back. By 2017 they had it available on the lower trims as well which makes a lot of sense, as those are the folks a bit more concerned with fuel economy instead of spending $50-60k on the vehicle itself. And as noted, it’s a $3000 or so option on the Police version so why not the civilian version as well? (Toyota’s upcharge is a lot less which is curious too)
I still don’t really understand how RWD would make for a roomier Explorer in general which seems to be their talking point. Sure, it’s roomier than the old Volvo-related platform it used previously but after forty years of hearing about how FWD makes for a roomier cabin (and the reasons make sense) to go back to RWD? Why? There’s no reason they couldn’t have used the same basic platform specs (i.e. the stretched wheelbase etc) and designed it as FWD and then add an electric AWD system to the hybrid models. That would be showing some leadership. The part about it using common components with the F150 seems like marketing hogwash, the current Explorer used the 3.5Ecoboost, as does the F150. And the Fusion Sport also uses the 2.7TT so there’s nothing intrinsically precluding any of Ford’s engines from being compatible with FWD based architecture. 99% of the public doesn’t care about RWD, but would/will be annoyed if it’s less stable than a FWD platform in their thrice-yearly snowy conditions for those “tweener” regions that haven’t wholesale adopted AWD.
Nobody has a problem with Volvo and Audi being FWD derived.
The Escape’s attractive in a Mercedes GLC way, just like the GLC somewhat unidentifiable if the badges were removed. Curiously interesting in that it is more car-like looking than any Escape before it. Will there be a “lowered” version at some point? 🙂 Maybe call it the Cross-Fit as the more athletic version.
I did like the Aviator when I first saw images of it last year. Looking at the inside of one, it looks and feels good at first caress but once the details are focused on it again seems to have some regular Ford grade plastics and textures that don’t look so good at this price point. It may be a bit “blingy” too, but maybe that’s just me. I don’t think it’ll take many sales away from the Audi Q7 yet but who knows. Audi’s moving on with their Q8 variant and while their electrics aren’t up to par yet I was hoping that Lincoln would at least hybridize their new lineup for a little extra something.
Thanks for the ride-along Edward, that was quite thorough, I appreciated seeing this portion of a major market auto show!
I’d love to see a breakdown between FWD and AWD Explorer sales. I wonder if the FWD take rate is low enough that Ford figured it an acceptable risk to switch to this new platform.
You make a good point about the Escape’s car-like styling. We’re seeing plenty of crossovers nowadays that look like slightly jacked-up hatchbacks (e.g. BMW X2, Mercedes GLA). I wonder if, with time, we’ll see low-rise versions of them and lots of people will just end up driving what amounts to AWD (maybe not even AWD!) hatchbacks and wagons which we enthusiasts have been clamouring for for ages…
As to the hybrid, it’s probably due to production constraints.
I think your issues about FWD vs RWD in this class of vehicle are moot points. The intrinsic space efficiency advantages to FWD are essentially irrelevant in these trucks, as they’re so tall and sit so high, it matter not the slightest. Frankly, even in large sedans, the FWD space efficiency starts to disappear. Is a Mercedes sedan really less roomy than a similar sized Audi? The consoles are the same size regardless. Where’s the real space efficiency? In a really small car, yes, it’s a genuine factor.
The old Volvo platform was past its sell-by date. It makes sense on several levels to do what Ford did. It’s not the engines that matter so much, as they can be turned sideways or longways pretty easily. It’s the rest of the drive train that matters. And since Ford is becoming a mostly truck company, it makes sense to utilize the RWD transmissions and transfer cases and suspensions and other components in every class except the compact class. It creates volume scale, and makes new variations easier.
The only real reason companies like Audi and Toyota and others do FWD based SUVs is because of platform sharing. And they are predomintly FWD platform companies except for their BOF trucks. But Ford has no suitable large FWD platform anymore. This makes lots of sense, to me anyway.
I think the reason that the Hybrid will only be available in the Limited trim at launch is the simple reason to be able to maximize the per unit margin/recapture the development funding early on. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is available on the lower trims in the future. They did similar things with the Fusion Hybrid but eventually made it available on the S trim too.
With a CUV/SUV you really need the ability to offer AWD/4WD so the rear seat room advantage of FWD disappears when you need to be able to drive the rear wheels.
The lack of a transmission tunnel is of course one of the original advantages to FWD packaging. However since massive consoles are now the norm that just doesn’t provide any increase in perceived front seat room.
The other thing to consider is that when pen was first put to paper sedans were still a thing and this platform was supposed to underpin the next generation Continental. Additionally this platform, or at least bits and pieces of it will likely be the basis of the next Mustang which must be RWD. The fact that it means that they can share transmission/transfer case components with the Ranger, F-150, Expedition and Navigator of course is another reason that it makes sense to go to the longitudinal/RWD style of layout.
So yeah no sense to have a large transverse platform at this point that would require too many dedicated components.
Front trunk on the Rivian is a great idea, but your going to need a step ladder to lift anything over the front panel, unless its designed to lower like a tailgate, which it obviously is not since these are identical to production model.
I was at the show on the first public day on April 19th, I noticed BMW was not present at all.
Volvo and Mitsubishi pulled out as well. I hope it doesn’t become a trend.
For the sake of Ford’s Australian operations, they better engineer a RHD version of the Explorer. The market would lap it up and it looks like a genuinely good product and a true successor to our homegrown Territory. The Edge (or as we know it, Endura) is a competent product but it’s just not what we buy here — when we buy mid-size crossovers, we expect a third row even if it is tight. The best-selling car in that segment, though, is the Toyota Kluger (Highlander). The Explorer would be an excellent rival for it.
Making the Escape look so car-like is interesting but clever if they roll out this “mini-Bronco” crossover. It’s kind of like what Jeep did with the Compass/Patriot.
Lincoln’s crossover lineup impresses me greatly. And while I don’t think the Cadillac XT6 is any worse than a Lexus RX, it’s terribly unimaginative in almost every way. They’ll still sell plenty though. But I hold Cadillac to a higher standard and a super-late stretched XT5 with a carryover interior and powertrain really doesn’t hold a candle to the Aviator. Yes, the Aviator uses the Explorer platform but that interior is really special, the powertrains are much more exciting, there’s a plug-in hybrid version… I’d take an Aviator over the XT6 any day.
I think the XT4 is a little more “fresh” than the XT6 but the Corsair’s mini-Navi interior and more powerful turbo four has me leaning Lincoln again.
I don’t think the Continental and MKZ are long for this world.
Rivian I’m very excited about. One of my favourite Aussie car sites though said the reps they spoke to couldn’t give them clear answers about towing and payload numbers and that concerned them. I guess not all their reps were privy to that info. But wow, I just can’t wait to see one in person. The R1S in particular is destined to become a Vail/Aspen/LA/etc status symbol. I hope Rivian launches smoothly.
Yeah the MKZ and Conti are gone after the 2020 MY. The replacements were due for 2021 but they were canceled. I can’t say I’m happy about it as the Conti was going to be on the same platform as the Explorer/Aviator and I’d love the Aviator’s PHEV drive train in a sedan.
What’s going on with the Fusion? Is that still becoming an Outback fighter?
From what I understand all development of the Fusion replacement was stopped years ago and supplier contracts were not extended past the 2020 model year. So no real hope of keeping the current line open with the old car and no new body shell for the new platform. Personally I don’t know if there is enough room between the Escape, Pinto (baby Bronco that won’t be called a Scout, yeah I know they won’t bring that name back) and the Edge which is where I’d see it fitting as a Outback fighter. Though maybe the Edge will split and spawn its own Bronco inspired version, Palomino? Cayuse? Appaloosa? But definitely not Shetland. Actually now that I think about it Palomino might not be a bad option for the baby Bronco. (I only know those horse names because I own a house in the section of the community where all the streets are named after horses, mine being on Pinto and yes that name appealed to me)
In that case, what do you think about this news report?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a22116426/report-ford-fusion-to-live-on-as-a-subaru-outback-fighter/
Well fact is that the Focus Active which was officially announced for the US was canceled since that article. Maybe they will soldier the current wagon in Europe for a couple of years and give it some cladding but I just don’t see it coming to the US.
They almost brought the Focus Active here, and there was even less room for that in the lineup than there would be for an Outback-type vehicle, especially if the new Ecosport ends up coming here. A crossover Fusion wagon would be perfect for former Taurus customers who don’t like the Edge. I was against seeing sedans die, but if low-riding crossovers like this are the future then so be it
There’s a new, more car-like Ecosport available in India
I hope it makes it to the US, it would compliment the new Escape and appeal to former Fiesta customers better than the current Ecosport does.