I seem to recall issues with gearbox lubrication with drive wheels on the ground. Probably more relevant for longer distances. For this reason things like early Saturns were popular for flat towing behind RVs.
No issues at all. Folks have been towing them for many decades, as toads behind rvs and such. There’s no pump, so there’s nothing that can happen. The transmission doesn’t know (or care) if it’s being towed or not.
Special tow bars that attached to a VW’s front suspension used to be very common, since they were towed so often, typically behind rental moving vans and such. I rented one once to tow my broken VW for 800 miles.
R&DMan
Posted January 13, 2021 at 5:53 AM
Oh, the transmission certainly does care if it is being towed. With the engine off the counter gear, which sits in the lube and does the splashing, is not turning. Not a problem on most transaxles as the ring gear is turning but a big no no on conventional transmissions. I have seen the mainshaft get so hot it welds itself to a gear due to lack of lube
They still sell this kind of tow bar for air cooled VW’s, as they can be attached in a couple of minutes, as it just attaches to the transverse torsion bar housing.
It makes the VW the easiest car to flat tow. Folks used to tow their VW dune buggies everywhere in CA back in the day. An extremely common sight.
ras_austin
Posted January 11, 2021 at 1:17 PM
I thought it wasnt good for the syncros (or something to that effect) to have the gears spinning and the half-shaft idle, over a tow of 50 miles or so – that is why you disconnect the ujoints at the differential when towing long distances, according to most of the owner’s manuals I read through.
I Googled this question, and found numerous folks who said they had done it for decades. And as I said, it was once a very common sight to see VWs and VW dune buggies being towed all over the place. And there’s no way to disconnect the drive shafts.
If someone has better information on this, I’d be glad to change my opinion.
Saturn had unique automatic transmission. It has nothing to do with manual transmission dinghy towing. I flat tow the Thing, which has been upgraded to the bigger transmission from a bay window bus like in the picture.
I remember one driven by a cute retro hippie looking chick in Tulsa a year or two ago. She made a normal 90 degree turn thru an intersection at about 20 mph. I thought she was going to go up on two wheels. Count me out.
I read somewhere that when travelling in a VW bus it’s better to go in groups, because in the event of a break down there’s more knowledge and spare parts on hand.
However once you get over 6 buses it works against you because one of them will always be broken so you can never get anywhere.
The first time I “drove” on a public street was when my friend’s dad pushed his VW Fastback to the side of congested 14th street in DC in the early 70’s. It just missed dying on the bridge.
Well, it’s one type of stereo, rumbling V8 tow truck and silent VW van. Many folk thought that they came from the factory that way.
Is this pic reinforcing a widely-held but over-simple view? I’m not so sure.
The Beetle’s tin-clad little air-fluffed-clang-dinger was meant for Dr Porsche’s 1600 pound, somewhat aerodynamic little machine, and not a bluff boxcar weighing 1.2 tonnes – empty. It wasn’t designed to be squoze into an airless little coffin either, wafted only by the odd breeze from vents up near the roof. In those conditions, encased and flogged mercilessly and without relent – especially in the unsurprising event of being used as a van and loaded up with vegetables or 16 hippies – they expired early, having never seen 65 mph or 21mpg. And the second engines were never as good, and the third and the rest lesser each time.
Owners loved their Volksy vans for their character, their Germaness (and perceived quality), and the brotherhood. But those same attractions made them defensive, and when one questioned them about the journey of their beasts, they would take some time to admit that the 200,000 (slowly-won) miles on the clock was currently being sustained by engine No. 6, and quite possibly gearbox three, and that the long controls front to back had meant new clutch cables every second year and a heater certainly ineffective for failed bits by now. They’d never admit the generator electrics were fritzy and weak (and very prone to dust trouble here), nor that to get any real life out of the motor, oil changes had to be changed as often as underwear.
Now, maybe the heat and dust in Oz was too much for them, but there is also a big reason the Japanese won the war of smallish commercial and passenger vans in this country with their largely unpleasant machines: they never needed to reach their highest speed with the assistance of towing company more than once a lifetime.
There is not much of a comment that would need to be added here! In Europe these VW vans (and pick up and crew cab and dozen other versions) have become so popular and famous because of their versatility. There were even semi-trailer versions, in the beginning powered by 26 miserable hp!
The big relief – considering the engine – came with introduction of the Golf/Rabbit 1.6 Diesel and TD. More than a little better reliability and longer life. In my eyes the finest rear engine VW van was the South Africa T3 “Volksiebus” powered by five cylinder Audi engines of 2.3 or 2.6 L. Finally enough hp and no more engine issues. I have been owning one of these for more than ten years now.
It’s bizarre because throughout Europe and Africa air-cooled VWs had a reputation akin to that of Landcruisers nowadays. Tough and indestructible. So they rusted a bit, so did all cars of that era, but the engines went on for ever. I think it has more to do with US driving conditions and maintenance standars.
Latest and greatest; 23 windows and six wheels. Or thereabouts.
Those 2nd generation buses weren’t quite as bad as the 1st. The engines still blew up, but the bodies and frames didn’t rust nearly as fast.
The bodies still rust here at the beach. I’ve seen windshields fall out and Flintstones-mobile floors.
If it’s in Eugene, moss is a bigger problem than rust 🙂
I am no VW expert but should that be towed with the rear wheels on the ground like that? The truck even has an axle to go underneath.
Any manual transmission in neutral can be towed without issue. Am I missing something?
I seem to recall issues with gearbox lubrication with drive wheels on the ground. Probably more relevant for longer distances. For this reason things like early Saturns were popular for flat towing behind RVs.
No issues at all. Folks have been towing them for many decades, as toads behind rvs and such. There’s no pump, so there’s nothing that can happen. The transmission doesn’t know (or care) if it’s being towed or not.
Special tow bars that attached to a VW’s front suspension used to be very common, since they were towed so often, typically behind rental moving vans and such. I rented one once to tow my broken VW for 800 miles.
Oh, the transmission certainly does care if it is being towed. With the engine off the counter gear, which sits in the lube and does the splashing, is not turning. Not a problem on most transaxles as the ring gear is turning but a big no no on conventional transmissions. I have seen the mainshaft get so hot it welds itself to a gear due to lack of lube
They still sell this kind of tow bar for air cooled VW’s, as they can be attached in a couple of minutes, as it just attaches to the transverse torsion bar housing.
It makes the VW the easiest car to flat tow. Folks used to tow their VW dune buggies everywhere in CA back in the day. An extremely common sight.
I thought it wasnt good for the syncros (or something to that effect) to have the gears spinning and the half-shaft idle, over a tow of 50 miles or so – that is why you disconnect the ujoints at the differential when towing long distances, according to most of the owner’s manuals I read through.
I Googled this question, and found numerous folks who said they had done it for decades. And as I said, it was once a very common sight to see VWs and VW dune buggies being towed all over the place. And there’s no way to disconnect the drive shafts.
If someone has better information on this, I’d be glad to change my opinion.
Saturn had unique automatic transmission. It has nothing to do with manual transmission dinghy towing. I flat tow the Thing, which has been upgraded to the bigger transmission from a bay window bus like in the picture.
It’s not broken, he’s just trying to keep the miles off of it.
Don’t laugh – broken and all, it’s probably still worth more than your home. :)>
Yeah, reinforcing stereotypes. And conveniently forgetting the age of the vehicle.
I remember one driven by a cute retro hippie looking chick in Tulsa a year or two ago. She made a normal 90 degree turn thru an intersection at about 20 mph. I thought she was going to go up on two wheels. Count me out.
I read somewhere that when travelling in a VW bus it’s better to go in groups, because in the event of a break down there’s more knowledge and spare parts on hand.
However once you get over 6 buses it works against you because one of them will always be broken so you can never get anywhere.
The first time I “drove” on a public street was when my friend’s dad pushed his VW Fastback to the side of congested 14th street in DC in the early 70’s. It just missed dying on the bridge.
Well, it’s one type of stereo, rumbling V8 tow truck and silent VW van. Many folk thought that they came from the factory that way.
Is this pic reinforcing a widely-held but over-simple view? I’m not so sure.
The Beetle’s tin-clad little air-fluffed-clang-dinger was meant for Dr Porsche’s 1600 pound, somewhat aerodynamic little machine, and not a bluff boxcar weighing 1.2 tonnes – empty. It wasn’t designed to be squoze into an airless little coffin either, wafted only by the odd breeze from vents up near the roof. In those conditions, encased and flogged mercilessly and without relent – especially in the unsurprising event of being used as a van and loaded up with vegetables or 16 hippies – they expired early, having never seen 65 mph or 21mpg. And the second engines were never as good, and the third and the rest lesser each time.
Owners loved their Volksy vans for their character, their Germaness (and perceived quality), and the brotherhood. But those same attractions made them defensive, and when one questioned them about the journey of their beasts, they would take some time to admit that the 200,000 (slowly-won) miles on the clock was currently being sustained by engine No. 6, and quite possibly gearbox three, and that the long controls front to back had meant new clutch cables every second year and a heater certainly ineffective for failed bits by now. They’d never admit the generator electrics were fritzy and weak (and very prone to dust trouble here), nor that to get any real life out of the motor, oil changes had to be changed as often as underwear.
Now, maybe the heat and dust in Oz was too much for them, but there is also a big reason the Japanese won the war of smallish commercial and passenger vans in this country with their largely unpleasant machines: they never needed to reach their highest speed with the assistance of towing company more than once a lifetime.
There is not much of a comment that would need to be added here! In Europe these VW vans (and pick up and crew cab and dozen other versions) have become so popular and famous because of their versatility. There were even semi-trailer versions, in the beginning powered by 26 miserable hp!
The big relief – considering the engine – came with introduction of the Golf/Rabbit 1.6 Diesel and TD. More than a little better reliability and longer life. In my eyes the finest rear engine VW van was the South Africa T3 “Volksiebus” powered by five cylinder Audi engines of 2.3 or 2.6 L. Finally enough hp and no more engine issues. I have been owning one of these for more than ten years now.
It’s bizarre because throughout Europe and Africa air-cooled VWs had a reputation akin to that of Landcruisers nowadays. Tough and indestructible. So they rusted a bit, so did all cars of that era, but the engines went on for ever. I think it has more to do with US driving conditions and maintenance standars.