the 2023 DeVille? Eldorado? Seville? Fleetwood?
Cadillac’s much-reviled alphanumeric naming scheme will die along with its internal combustion engines. Of course that might be a mixed blessing for some.
Cadillac President Steve Carlisle announced today that the brand once known for some of the most storied and memorable names in automotive history will be ditching its alphanumeric nameplates for real names again. But I wouldn’t hold my breath for the classic ones to come back.
Cadillac will be spearheading GM’s charge into the EV market, with a total of 20 all-new EV globally starting in 2023. And by 2030, Carlisle said that “the majority—if not all—Cadillacs sold will be battery electrics”.
“We’re entering the decade as an internal-combustion-engine brand,” he said. “We’ll exit the decade as a battery-electric brand. It’s the end of the ICE age for Cadillac.”
Lincoln recently also returned to traditional names, with their Corsair and Nautilus SUVs.
Et tu, Acura?
Still waiting for the Buick Electra.
Keep waiting. Did you notice that Buick recently had a convertible named after a dishwashing detergent when SKY lark was available?
I’m pretty sure good names from the past aren’t used because the idiot GM marketing team members want to be the ones responsible for the names, no matter how dumb-sounding they are.
Seriously. Enclave? Lucerne? Lacrosse?
Don’t stop now, they need to replace the Cadillac name itself. There seem to be a good many people that wouldn’t consider any Cadillac, no matter how good, but a new name could possibly work.
It’s an interesting question: how badly tarnished can a brand name be before it is a completely lost cause?
Focus group of one: my wife, who has driven BMWs for over 2 decades, really likes the new Lincoln Aviator. She’s seen a few around town and thinks they look good, plus she has enough remnant memory of Lincoln being a luxury brand from her North Jersey childhood to check that “upscale” box. So, yeah, we might actually take a look at a Lincoln, which are words I never thought would come out of my mouth.
The converse, sadly, is that we think the current line of BMWs range from “meh” to “hideous” and they have lost their driving dynamics raison d’être. So if you’re going to get a soft, cushy SUV, why not get it from an American brand that has a heritage in that area. Which would be the most recent new Lincolns and could be Cadillac if they offered-up a fresh take on their traditional roots.
Time for the second coming of the LaSalle?As they transition, gas Cadillacs and electric LaSalles.
Why not just stop the madness and call all GM vehicles -GM? Yeah, crazy. But the whole branding thing, especially when there are different names for different markets, ties up a lot of money that could be used on improving quality and product choices overall. With their stated move to EVs, why not call them GM and be done with the branding that no longer means anything.
Cadillac would be the most likely to benefit, as more people might be swayed to try the product once the name and associated taint has been removed. If Buick sells in China, keep it there. Call all GMs in China, Buicks. Fine. But sell GM products at all GM dealerships, and make the vehicles as nice or cheap as you want, and let the buying public decide what they like.
Cadillac Ei Dorado? dEVille? sEVille?
The Cadillac Vault! A respectful nod to eco-friendly Chevys while implying solidity and gobs of money.
There is (was) a concept of that
Cadillac Vault sounds better than Cadillac ULC too.
Lincoln had one too.
It’ll be the Cadillac eDorado convertible and the eVille sedan, possibly with the eMarron compact. Oh, and if you want the SUV, there’ll be the eScalade.
No comment on the product itself, as I’m a skeptic, but glad to see Cadillac return to using memorable/distinctive names. I hope they don’t dredge out DeVille, Fleetwood, etc., but they do have some good show car names from the not-too-distant past, such as Elmiraj, Escala and Ciel that could work nicely. Also would indicate that they will keep their best current name–Escalade, in the lineup rather than replacing it with some asinine XT8 badge.
Somebody at Cadillac must have noticed the one product to which they gave a real name is also their image leader and best seller…
But I wouldn’t hold my breath for the classic ones to come back.
Goodie, I look forward to the Cadillac Elexia or whatever pharmaceutical not-name they come up with. I guess now that BMWs aren’t as hip as they used to be, Cadillac’s following the new leader.
And it’s a crossover! Not too many of those flooding the market! I’m certain Cadillac will stand right out!
How about Alero? A revival of The OG car model that sounded like an anti-depressant pharmaceutical. So glad they offered the Grand Am on the same chassis though if I was in the market back then I would have purchased the dark blue Honda Civic Si over both of those Enterprise Specials and it probably would still be running.
Whatever Cadillac decides to call their electric cars I hope they don’t recycle the traditional Seville, DeVille, Eldorado, and Fleetwood. Those names are too cool and good for the crap they are about to unleash on the marketplace.
They couldn’t make a decent ICE V-8 since 1981 without borrowing from other GM brands. Olds 5.0 V8 1986 Fleetwood Broughams, The 4.5 and 4.9 were more eight cyl 3800’s than re-worked 4100’s. 1994-1996 Fleetwoods with the Chevy LT1 and The Chevy LS powered Escalades.
Now we are supposed to believe that they ill be able to build a reliable luxury electric powertrain. What about long-term support for battery replacement? Go to a Cadillac dealer today and try to purchase a set of head bolts for a 4.5 Liter V8. See what they tell you.
Perhaps they could re-use Calais, Cimarron, Alante, and Catera we all knew those were the posers in the line-up.
To paraphrase a politician “I knew Cadillac, Cadillac was a friend of mine, you sir are no Cadillac.”
I will give Paul Niedermeyer credit though he could have saved GM Billions of dollars by converting Cadillac to electric without going through the 2010-2019 farce of needlessly chasing BMW,.
I will also give JdN credit, he will go down in history as the father of the last real Cadillac. The CT6-V BlackWing. RIP Black Wing. We Hardly Knew Ye.
The irony of Caddy spending the last 15 years chasing BMW is that BMW themselves has mostly given up building that sort of BMW. It’s not coincidental that the one Cadillac that didn’t chase BMW – the Escalade – is their most profitable.
I wanted to re-post my comment from
There is a way for Cadillac to do electric right but that picture at the top of the page triggered me to write the comment I initially wrote above. I will accept an “alternative powertrain” if you please give me exactly what I want below.
Here’s hoping a GM/Cadillac Exec is reading and at least tries it. Without further ado.
Posted November 21, 2019 at 6:11 PM
I am wondering what the excuse will be going forward for Cadillac not creating a “retro” themed 1959 Eldorado or 1969 Eldorado. I would even accept a retro Brougham at this point. The excuse for years was “bad aerodynamics” poor fuel economy and “people can get hurt on the emblems if the car hits them.” But now with the combination of electrics, the automatic hood camber in case of accident on the current Buick Regal, and breakaway plasti-chrome can I finally get a “real” Cadillac? There is too much heritage and technology in GM and Cadillac for this not to happen. It was a slap in the face when Cadillac’s first EV was a Volt Coupe. Particularly when the retro Mustang and Challenger sell so well. Can we please have retro-luxury “Real Cadillac” from Cadillac?
“….Go to a Cadillac dealer today and try to purchase a set of head bolts for a 4.5 Liter V8. See what they tell you…..”.
uh…head bolt? Sorry sir, but whats that?
This push to EVs by the American brands reminds me of aging rock stars of the eighties and nineties switching to electronic music in efforts to stay hip.
It usually didn’t work (though Zooropa was pretty good).
And it’s not going to work in this case. Ford, for instance, couldn’t get gas-powered cars right after decades of trying. Why would switching to a new type of automobile work?
Yeah that’s the impression I get too. The Mustang Mach-E is Queen’s Hot Space album.
The big manufacturers seem to be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Being an EV seems to be their primary selling point for future models and nothing else. Tesla doesn’t even tout being EVs, it’s just a given, they sell cars based on hipness, gimmicks and styling just like the rest of the up industry does with ICE powered cars. I’m not against EVs but to sell me one I need way more reason to put money down than its propulsion method, and that’s going to apply to the 90 something percent of the country still attached to gas vehicles.
If video killed the radio star did Elon Musk kill the oil czar?
In my mind and in my car…
they won’t pollute, they can’t go far
Emissions came and broke your car
Put the blame on CDR…
(what’s CDR you ask?)
Ow, a,a,a, ow!
Bought a Chrysler gasser back in ’73
Against the smogging laws it fought quite Valiantly
It couldn’t stop the tide of new technology
Oh a oh…
It’s about 25 years too late and I couldn’t give a rat’s furry ass about it. But still, cool!
I am critical of GM as much as anybody but 25 years too late? 1995? The B-Body was still in production back then. The only mass market EV was GM’s Lease Only EV-1. The Lexus RX did not debut until 1999 and Cadillac had a competent answer with the first Gen SRX in 2003 with optional V8 (albeit NorthStar) that was well received by the automotive press. The public was much less interested because pricing pushed it up against the Escalade and when dealing with Cadillacs Bigger is better…always.
Cadillac lost the plot with the second gen SRX which was more commercially successful but built to a price point to not brush up against Escalade and the V8 crossover was and remains dead at Cadillac through today.
Well, I maybe exaggerated a little bit, got my dates wrong and all that. So mea culpa on my part. Let’s go 10 years instead.
But, my comment was also made in jest that it’s still too late. Going back to real names won’t save them from the decline. I’ve said that going down the EV route won’t save the brand or suddenly propel them into the former glory days they had during the 50s or 60s. EV is just another cheap attempt by GM to make Cadillac seem relevant in time period where it really isn’t anymore. They may make well equipped and well appointed vehicles with decent driving dynamics, but outside of a scant-few higher priced models, nothing I would snatch up or buy over other similar models from other similar brands. I may be a Cadillac fan, but even I know that the supposed “future” for the brand is a cynical desperation play.
My issue with Cadillac is that it’s always all or nothing with them. They don’t do transitions well at all.
1. Kill the good Cadillac engine and move all cars to either HT4100, Olds Diesel, or 3800 V-6. Why couldn’t they leave the Fleetwood with the “good” engine or at least the gas 350 until the 4100 proved itself?
2. Move Fleetwood, Deville, Seville, and Eldorado to FWD between 1985 and 1986. Why couldn’t this transition have been more gradual?
3. Why did it take so long for Cadillac to address the NorthStar Head Gasket issues?
4. Here we are again in 2020 and its 1980 all over again. Why are they going to transition EVERYTHING to ELECTRIC?
Can’t they leave the CT-6 Black Wing (China source), XT6, and Escalade alone until the technology proves itself and the market is ready for the full electric transition? Yes, I would rather have a CT6 imported from China than to kill it completely. Special Order only and bill the customer for shipping.
On another note,
It is ironic that Curbside Classic posted that Ford LTD review today along with this article. That article is laced with the same (sky is falling) topics…luxo-barge=poor fuel economy and poor emissions but the price is right and it is so uniquely American we can’t stop buying it! We need to downsize, fuel inject, etc. Feel Guilt and shame pleb!
Its just that now ANY oil consumption is bad and the future Must Be Electric. Even though that comes with its own set of issues that has been thought out by previous generations (notably Thomas Edison and Henry Ford) and deemed inefficient and unscalable for demand.
If we as a society decide to go full speed ahead into this, will we be able to get raw materials to make batteries, will electricity be generated cleanly, will batteries be available as parts, will the batteries be recyclable, how much will electric rates go up? What is the effect of shutting down the oil supply chain, how many jobs will be lost? How many gas stations will be abandoned? Who will clean up abandoned gas stations, etc.
We have seen what happens with good intentions and fueling cars throughout history notably the use of Lead in gasoline, the use of MTBE in gasoline, the use of ethanol in gasoline.
Another automotive example is Takata. Government says car must have airbags in order to be sold. Company stuffs airbags with the cheapest raw materials and non-existent QC to satisfy government mandated demand. Will the same thing happen to battery production?
Seville and Eldorado already were FWD in 1985. They were red hot in 1985. E body and Seville sales were capacity limited by the exclusive THM325 FWD transaxle.
FWD was not what made the smaller 80s Cadillacs market duds. Cadillac’s 1985 sales were its alltime high. The only RWD product in the line was the RWD 4-door sedan.
Actually this is the best. chance Cadillac has had for reinventing themselves in decades. A chance to totally change the brand. However they are going to have to spend real money and build superior cars. A Tesla level EV Electrolux…. seriously.
The perfect name for a luxury electric car, the Cadillac Electrolux. Oh, on second thought, I guess that name really sucks.
If only you guys were in the GM board room when they were assigning names to the first gen U-Body “Dustbuster” Mini-vans.
6000SUX…(Obligatory car-related 80’s pop culture reference)
I love your comment, but there’s still Roomba for improvement. 🙂
Electrolux! Perfect Electrical luxury. Vacuums up the competition?
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Dear Old Dad would be glad he’s dead. He’d be really hurt to know that Cadillac has plotted a course into the heart of political-correctness.
I wouldn’t touch a Cadillac car with a ten-foot pole; although I might be convinced to dick around with a 472/500 transplanted into something more fun than a DeVille.
Maybe I should start a business selling eleven-foot poles. Fiberglass, so they’re non-conductive. That way you don’t get a 600-volt surprise when they touch the battery pack.
GM is so screwed-up they don’t know which way is up.
I know how you feel.
I was sad when Oldsmobile was discontinued. My family has owned more Oldsmobiles than any other General Motors Brand. Five of them all together four B Bodies and one Cutlass Cruiser wagon (G Body). Hindsight being 20/20 I am glad that Oldsmobile got to die with dignity.
It did not have to be forced through the bankruptcy and it was (for the most part) true to its mission for the most part of American Luxury and Performance. I always said Oldsmobiles secret was combining Buick Chassis and Pontiac Suspension with Cadillac switchgear and interior appointments. Particularly in the Toronado, 442, and Regency/Aurora lines.
Cadillac is now like that picture of Steve Buscemi holding a skateboard saying “how do you do fellow kids?” at this point. At least Oldsmobile never was dragged through that phase (Indy 500 Bravada Pace Trucks Excluded).
One question: do you all have a lawn, and should I get off it?
Luddite opinion: Real Cadillacs have V8s and have fins!
Technologist opinion: Cadillac is dead, Tesla rules EVs, na-na, na-na, boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo.
Teslas have definitely displaced the Germans around here in cars.
Somehow it makes sense to me, going all in on electric. It should have been Cadillac doing what Tesla is doing, innovating and employing the latest technology on a mass market scale, and being the aspirational item it used to be. This may be make it or break it time for them. I hope they have the long-term vision to get there.
No more half-measures, Cadillac.
Weird, this strikingly similar comment was made in 2003 when the CTS debuted!
“Somehow it makes sense to me, going all in on sports sedans. It should have been Cadillac doing what BMW is doing, innovating and employing the latest technology on a mass market scale, and being the aspirational item it used to be. This may be make it or break it time for them. I hope they have the long-term vision to get there.
No more half-measures, Cadillac.”
Source for that comment?
That is startling!
I really just said it off the top of my head before a nap.
I thought of “half measures” from Breaking Bad and wrote the rest after.
I am unable to locate the 2003 quote on the internet.
If there’s really a quote like that out there, then all I can say is the brain is a weird thing.
After a good sleep, it occurs to me that what you said was just a jab at Cadillac never seeing it through. Meet the new goal/same as the old goal kinda thing?
I was having some sort of existential crisis thinking I’d subconsciously written something I’d read years ago word for word.
I might say weird stuff from time to time but my words have always been my own. I think…😶
Might just be hope for Cadillac yet. It is fully their one vehicle that still has a proper name is also one of their best sellers and is their most profitable. Amazing how many Escalades I see in livery service. And in the more affluent areas near me it is quite common to see a Tesla S in the driveway alongside an Escalade. So, if those customers are coming in to the dealerships to buy Escalades, only logical to have a Tesla alternative in the showroom too.
But for the CTS Cadillac is a retro used car brand here we only see old ones those are the cars people like and continue to import electrifying new ones will make no difference,
Looks like Cadillac finally got the brief about North American preferences. Alphabets and numbers are more a Euro thing (sans the Euro skeptics of GB).
The next battle cry for Cadillac is converting the “Well To Do” to adopt EVs. Give credit to Tesla for leading the way and bending the mind set. Following the traditional “trickledown” theory of GM, Mary Barra needs Cadillac to set a pristine example of execution and follow thru for customer acceptance. No fowl ups, no dropping the ball, no class action law suits, no 36 month lease mentality. All the ducks need to be in a row for GM to prosper.
Nothing ruffles my furs quite as much as PR management-speak, “speak” being a loosely arranged version of that word. “Cadillac is ending the ice age” (when, to overstate one view, their own profligate creations and imitators may have caused the ending of current ice anyway). Is there an assumption the potential buyers, the recipients of this crass punning, have the brains of a chrome hood ornament from 1950? God spare us from the endless rise of thinly-veiled stupidity, despite its inexorable promotion.
Look, Caddy has, what, half a bee’s dick of nothing of the current US market? Does it expect that some puerile announcement of cars that won’t be nearly good enough – if only for the reason of being vastly behind in development – is sufficient, that they are going to become desirable class-leaders, and wanted items by virtue of their added volts? I predict at best a rise to a full bee’s dick of share with the Seville-E and brothers, if enough ancients survive to buy them.
Also, simply for production-scale purposes, there’s this whole thing west of Kansas (if not east) called The Rest Of The World, where no-one has bought a Cadillac – unless opening an Elvis-themed shop – for 40 years.
In short, you can change the names, but name what you will a brown and stinky log-shaped extrusion, it will, by virtue of its inherent undesirability, remain unmentionable and unwanted.
Vale to the once-great, and may the perpetual V16 light shine upon their chromed memory.
Dead right. How about making vehicles people will buy and not think that a good name badge will sell them? How clueless are these guys? Park each of them at a large dealership and have them get a view of the real world.
Just make them something worthy of the Cadillac name and you could call them “Utopian Turtletop” and it won’t really matter.
At this point, “worthy of the Cadillac name” is fairly ambiguous.
I think “the Cadillac name” has been tarnished beyond all recovery after decades of peddling junk. “Worthy” of that name would require another in a long string of pathetic vehicles. And that’s exactly what’s coming, “more of the same”.
It’d be nice to be wrong. I’d like to see GM recover some of it’s dignity, if not it’s glory. Too much to hope for, though. Between mismanagement at GM, and mismanagement of Government bureaucrats by a totally-corrupt Three Branches, it’ll never happen.
I certainly applaud the return to actual names for their cars, but how about throwback propulsion as well? As an homage to the 8-6-4 engine Cadillac could introduce 4-3-2-1 -wheel drive. Efficiency! And what could go wrong? 😉
I expect Cadillac changing its model names to have no significant effect on its declining sales, and its literally dying customer base.
Supposedly Henry Ford I said, “You can’t build a reputation on what you are going to do.”
Someone needs to remind GM’s leadership of this.
Jeez guys, aren’t you guys a ray of sunshine! For a minute I thought I was over at Jalopnik. I get it, you guys are probably smarter than everyone else, you’re probably cooler than everyone else, and on top of it, you’re probably from California!
Did you guys ever think about giving someone/something a chance? You guys all exalt your German cars, half of which by Volksy and Audi have been big pieces of shit in the last 25 years, but don’t give a hoot in hell about some company trying to make something that maybe just might catch on, be it Korean or American.
I’m no GM supporter, not by a long shot. In fact, f*** GM. However, let’s see what the vehicles are about first before we automatically doom them, be they from Korea, America, whatever. It seems like the American pasttime to pile on anymore, rather than do your own research.
And yes, I have had a GM, VW and Audi (among others). And there were some surprises. I will continue to shop for cars objectively and not listen to the herd.
Oh well, rant over. Maybe I’ll check out a Tesla and charge time be damned, buy the damn thing!
Rant over. Thanks for listening. If I get banned, so be it. I will say, I will miss Joe Dennis. He is the best.
It’s going to take more than that to get banned here. Can you try a bit harder? 🙂
I think this discussion was pretty tame considering the subject matter. You must have not been reading TTAC comments regarding Cadillac circa 2014 when DeadWeight, Principal Dan, and BTSR were regulars. That was like the Howard Stern and Don Imus of Cadillac Shit-posting.
I never signed up for a TTAC account because I simply cannot ever live up to those discussions. If someone wants to go through the site and publish DeadWeights comments in a book I would buy it. No Joke. Whatever business he is in its the wrong one because he should host a late night show on the Motor Trend Channel.
Speaking of people I miss from this site, what ever happened to Carmine? I always looked forward to his commentary specifically on 1970+ GM Vehicles.
I wish Cadillac would focus on competent execution rather than grand new plans. Didn’t I see where Cadillac is at the bottom of the CU quality survey? I think Cadillac could be saved, but it will take something beyond business as usual.
It would take a new car that is 1) attractive, 2) large, 3) powerful, 4) carefully built, 5) with quality materials, 6) expensive, and 7) durable (with each of these of equal importance).
Keep selling Escalades, dump everything else and bring out 2 new models – a sedan and a CUV. Make them electric if you choose. If they hit each of the above metrics on the bulls eye Cadillac would become the new “it” car, something it has not been in, what, 65 years? This is probably impossible because their dealer model surely requires more volume than this plan would generate.
So – yawn.
So here we are, self sufficient in oil for the first time in decades. Didn’t all the experts say the world would be dry by 2000? For a while now the experts have been claiming runaway warming, and yet it appears to be getting cooler. Tesla is the hipster brand, yet they are constantly in financial trouble, it seems. And still, the elite are desperately pushing the electric thing harder and harder. It’s all social engineering. If they really wanted to save “Cadillac” the move would be to make them retro V8 RWD highway cruisers. That’s the niche that is unserved and they historically fit. The closest thing that exists today is the Escalade, which is their biggest seller. Figured it out yet? The new elites don’t care what they have to sacrifice to get their way, and they financially control the computer\electric tech sector, so they aren’t going to give up socially engineering that into dominance until they are stopped.
So, would you use your own money to buy a $90,000 V-8 highway cruiser? A forty year old design?
Yes, trying to repeat the pasts of forty years ago is really going to work. The buyers for these cars are long dead. That’s why Cadillac is basically dead.
“The elite” thing is just lame.
Nobody is forcing you to buy an EV.
There will be gasoline cars available in the USA as long as there is a demand for them.
The demand for EV’s in the $40k+ market is very strong. That’s what is driving market.
So how will the “new elites…(be) stopped?”
At any rate, Cadillac and all other automakers are simply in the business of making money. I don’t think they care what form of energy their vehicles use to move.
Electric is the new industry buzzword and Cadillac despite already having a documented failure in the ELR believes that it would be a missed opportunity to not have a presence in the market. However, as I have already stated above, my issue with their decision is two-fold.
1. Why must the whole line-up be converted to electric in a ten year span?
2. Why can’t a retro themed “Brougham” be created from an electric or hybrid electric platform?
Very few people are interested in “Art and Science” design anymore enough to plunk down real money on any of their cars. Especially considering that when Art and Science debuted in 2003 some of their cars could be had for $45,000 to $55,000 loaded. Now that is base money for essentially the exact same design language.
Say what you will about Lincoln, but at least they have had about five different design languages in the years since 2003 while Cadillac keeps beating the barely breathing horse of Art and Science design.
Why can’t a retro themed “Brougham” be created from an electric or hybrid electric platform?
Because nobody with $60k in their pocket for a luxury car is going to want a car from 1979.
Last year I bought a 2018 Golf. I could have restored a 1980 Golf to pristine condition for much less.
But I didn’t want to drive a forty year old car.
Sales of the Dodge Challenger and Ford Mustang prove that there is still a market for retro done right.
Tha market is decidedly less than it was fifteen to twenty years ago when the Boomers were at the height of their consumer powers and the PT Cruiser was a run-away smash hit. But there is a market for this type of car. If Cadillac can create an electric sedan with dimensions similar tp a Rolls Royce Phantom with classic Cadillac styling cues at about 50% to 75% the cost of the Rolls Royce they would have a hit on their hands for at least a couple of years until demand is fulfilled similar to the demand curve of the aforementioned PT Cruiser.
The question is…is it worth the cost of development to have a short term bump in sales?
My answer for Cadillac is why not at this point? You just created the Black Wing V8 from scratch to sell far fewer than even 500,000 units. You seem to enjoy burning money. Why not burn money and have something worthy of the Cadillac badge at the same time?
Here is a photo of “Cadillac display debuts this week at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.” See the 1959 perched on top of the display? Imagine if it had an electric drive train and met 2020 federal safety standards and was for sale.
Instead of looking at it and saying wow how the mighty have fallen people would instead see a Cadillac Halo Car for the first time since 2006 XLR-V or 1976 Cadillac Seville depending on your personal opinion. I go with 2006 XLR-V myself.
Trying again to post picture?
Photo will not load. Click links instead.
The Challenger and all the other LX stuff remain because the platform was paid for eons ago. Its roots go all the way back to the MB E-Class circa 1995. They drive like it, too.
The Mustang is basically dead. It is selling at a rate of 6,000 cars a month. This level of sales dooms the Mustang. Ford has taken a huge bath on it because the customer base has changed. That’s why they are using the brand name for an EV.
Older men tend to have older tastes, so they like icons like the Mustang and Camaro. A young IT worker may have bought a pony car in 2005 but not in 2020.
I’ve worked in the new car business enough that if Cadillac thought it could make money on a big old body on frame sled with a cast iron lump under the hood, they’d make and sell it. The fact still remains few buyers want a forty year old car.
“make money on a big old body on frame sled with a cast iron lump under the hood, they’d make and sell it.”
Nobody here is making this argument.
I am making the case for an electric car with retro design and a Cadillac badge.
People with $60k in their pockets aren’t exactly clamoring for modern Cadillacs either. Given the success of many retro themed cars over the years and the general collective attitude that Cadillac lost its way after the 60s it’s not exactly an out there suggestion. I don’t think anyone holds a 1979 as an iconic Cadillac year, so I don’t know why you’d pick a that as an example.
And if safety, emissions and performance were up to snuff, I’d rather have the smaller, lighter, and better styled 80 Golf as well. Home decor, furniture, musical instruments, shoes and clothing use and recycle fashions sometimes centuries old. That automobile styling is the one industrial art that cannot look back is outdated thinking, from the era new styling alone could sell a car. Nobody cares about new styling anymore, it’s all been done.
But you don’t have a 1980 Golf. You didn’t have one when they were new. I don’t see anyone driving one daily.
My 2018 Golf can blast up the Great Bear Hill on the Coquihalla highway at 160 km/h, in air-conditioned comfort.
In my 52 hp 1980 Golf, I was lucky to get 60 km/h on that hill.
It’s nice to wax and reminisce about old cars but actually driving them, and I have plenty of opportunity, is different. Sure, they are fun, but for urban/mountain driving (what I do) they suck.
Where exactly did I suggest that in “if safety, emissions and performance were up to snuff, I’d rather have the smaller, lighter, and better styled 80 Golf”? Translation, modern engineering, modern technology, modern safety, in the 1980 wrapper.
Forget Mustangs and Challengers, think Jeep Wrangler, there’s zero relation under the skin to a 80 CJ5 but they look basically the same. But go ahead disparage it too, you’re the expert.
What I see here is a total belief that “modern”, in other words whatever is being pushed now, is somehow inherently better without question. Of course it wouldn’t work if Cadillac built exact replicas of 1965s with all the 1965 features. What I am saying is that the path to take is not trying to build a Tesla copy rather than a BMW copy. The path is to build a retro styled BOF RWD V8 true luxury car, with better modern steels, advancements in insulation and yes, handling ( I drive an 03 Town Car mostly. I have owned Miatas, Camaros and GTIs. Sure, they would run away from the TC on a race track, but in normal driving there really isn’t anything I do with the other cars that I can’t do with the TC, except be much more comfortable. ) A car like I envision certainly doesn’t have to drive like a 75 Continental. I get 22 mpg in the TC. I’m sure a newer design could easily get 25 mpg and pass reasonable emissions standards. There’s no oil shortage.
Let’s assume I agree with your position on the whole global warming thing (I don’t, which I say just for clarity, not polemics). The problem with producing a big ole fueller – even, say, a 30mpg-capable V8 – is that the tide has turned, and as King Canute could tell you, it isn’t for turning. back again.
That is, whether you think it’s wrong and I might (mostly) think it’s right, the tech, the investment, the future planning, and the political, regulatory landscape (especially outside the US) is heading implacably to electric cars. There is indeed no US oil shortage (though there’s likely going to be a helluva water/water table issue in the fracking future, alright, I shut up!), but there isn’t going to be a market. Remember that the Betamax video system was so superior that TV stations and production houses used it until digital, but VHS won the market.
Anyway, you and James are flogging on a pulseless horse, surely. For scientific research, I asked the kids just now if they’d ever want a Cadillac.
They said “yes” because they thought it was a biscuit.
I have a CT6