A CC commenter posed this question yesterday at the Camry COAL, and it made me realize that with one exception, my experiences with buying four new cars in the past 20 years or so has been very good. As in excellent even, in one case. But I know that’s hardly the norm. But in mulling over what was the key ingredient to a good experience, I’ve come up with one constant. And it is undoubtedly the key to a good dealership experience.
When I went to buy our 2000 Subaru Forester at the local dealer, my salesman was a guy roughly my age (late 40s at the time), and he clearly had worked there for some time. And he had the experience and intelligence to pick up that I just wanted to buy the advertised special for cash, skip all the other BS, and treat me like a sentient human being. The whole process was about as painless as buying something at the supermarket, and about an hour later we drove off. I’d say it happened because that dealer knew what kind of people (especially in Eugene) tended to buy Subarus: folks with higher than average education and income. Folks not willing to play stupid games. And it worked.
In 2005 or so, I helped my older son Ed buy his first new car, a Ford Focus. It was a colossal step backwards, and representative of how the typical American-brand mass-market dealer operated. Meaning: the sales person was a green young kid, who had no real authority (or knowledge). He was nice enough, but his only job was to shepherd us to the Assistant Sales Manager to close the deal, and then his job was to force us into the F&I gauntlet.
That 20 minutes across the desk with the prototypical F&I guy was pure hell, as he tried one ridiculous high pressure tactic after another to sell Ed on various BS high-profit gimmicks, like rust proofing (in Oregon!), clear coats, financing, extended warranties, etc. I clearly told him that we didn’t want to hear any of that and just pay for the car and go. he claimed he was required by law to present these to us (total BS). I finally walked out of his office and let Ed sit through his spiels.
When I searched for a rare left-over 2013 Acura TSX wagon, I found one in Boise, Idaho. I wrote up that experience in detail here, but let me summarize it briefly. My salesman, whom I had negotiated this on the phone and via email, was again a middle-aged career car salesman, and a genuine car guy. I negotiated really hard, but he never took it personally. I took the bus to Boise and spent the night in a hotel downtown. he picked me up the next morning, took me out to a great breakfast, and then helped me get on the road for the 500 mile trip back within an hour or so. Terrific guy, and a great dealership.
My most recent experience buying the Ram Promaster van was also out of state, but a bit different, since I was buying from a mega-dealer located in the tiny town of Kellogg, ID. Although thta dealer employed literally hundreds of salespeople, I could tell from meeting him and some of the others that these folks were all long-term employees, supporting families, and committed to providing a very satisfactory buying experience.
OK;my three experiences do not make a representative picture. But a recent article in autonews.com makes it clear what is a key problem in the industry: insanely high turnover in staff, most of all in sales, where it’s 67% annually! Which means dealers are constantly hiring completely inexperienced sales staff that typically come from other retail/hospitality businesses and have no real interest or affinity to the product they’re now trying to sell.
The survey referred to in the article shows that out of 800 prospective job seekers, only 5% would consider working in a dealership. And only one quarter of those would consider working in a sales capacity. That’s like barely over 1%.
The same survey, of existing dealer employees, showed that over a quarter of all dealer employees are going to be looking for a new job within 6 months. The reasons given are low pay, poor work culture, long hours, and bad management. The same reasons that undoubtedly many employees would give nowadays in many areas of retail and other industries.
It’s quite clear that the connection between employees who are in it for the long haul, and can earn a proper living wage doing it, is the key differentiator. Of course that comes from the top, which defines the culture, ethics, compensation structure and all the other aspects that define the workplace experience.
It’s not just dealers either; wherever I interact with companies/stores, the difference between dealing with an experienced staffer compared to an inexperienced one is huge. And I make a point to seek out those companies that foster that kind of setting. But it seems to be getting harder and harder.
There’s no reason a dealership experience can’t be good, or even excellent. But like everything else in life, it depends on the values and follow through of the other person/company one is dealing with. It seems like there is a growing polarization of these qualities, just like with everything else. Some folks “get it”; other don’t.
In autonews.com, I also read about a four-generation dealership in New Hampshire that ditched all of the “dog and pony show” approach, with a “lowest price, no-haggle” policy. They treat their customers (and employees) like real humans, and the results are predictable: They have an extremely loyal customer base, as well as equally loyal employees. Their profit margin is about 50% of the industry standard, but their commitment to fostering a workplace that provides for family-wage jobs, security and satisfaction is more important to the owner (shown above), than maximizing profits.
Once upon a time, business owners felt that way about their customers and employees much more commonly, although of course the auto dealer industry was always something of an outlier in regards to its selling approach. But as the internet changes the industry, there will undoubtedly be a place for those dealers that treat their customers and employees like genuine humans. My experience seems to bear that out.
The number of times I’ve purchased from a dealership is low, but has been mixed.
Our last was purchasing the VW. The salesman was an absolute dip-shit and we wound up dealing directly with the sales manager after my wife chewed on him after we had been lied to about color availability. The sales manager was a reasonable guy and apologized profusely to both of us over what had happened. My feelings about that dealer are mixed as the times we’ve had the car serviced were terrific.
Prior to that was in 2002 when we purchased the Taurus. It was a small Ford dealer north of Kansas City. Their sales department was good, the saleslady helpful and reasonably knowledgeable of the product. The service department were a bunch of orifices.
My best dealership experience was in 1996 when I ordered my Thunderbird. It was a very small dealer in Charleston, Missouri. The head salesman was also head of the service department. They were a joy to work with and I have never second guessed anything with that experience.
For years my father dealt with a Chrysler-Ford dealer in Cairo, Illinois. The two salesmen were brothers who owned the place and it made all dealings a breeze.
My preference is, hands-down, the small town dealers. Their volume is smaller and those who walk in the door seem to be more precious to them.
OMG yes! We’ve had several new car buying experiences that were very good, but none topped by taking Factory Delivery (in Spartanburg, South Carolina) of our 2001 BMW M Roadster.
Of course, it helps if you are a repeat customer, and that you’re able to interact with the same salesperson, as it was for several of our cars purchased from Steve Kizwic at Yark BMW in Toledo, Ohio
i have to think that the pontiac grand prix in the picture for for the advertised $2250 would be a good dealership experience!
But you haven’t heard about the floor mats and paint protection yet! 🙂
…and don’t forget fabric protection for those floor mats!
…and extended warranty!!??
I have to ask – What is the picture from – if a movie which one? I have to see more of that mahimba red Grand Prix.
found it- Matilda 1996. now wonder if the car is even in it more. my first memory involves my Mother choosing one just like it over a Bonneville convertible that i favored, and remember myself playing on the blue Morrokide seats in the back with my Matchbox cars, much to the salesman’s chagrin, i was almost 4. Mom said ‘next time’ figuring by then I’d have forgotten.
I was wondering why no one mentioned this…..
I no longer remember the title but I vividly remember having breakfast daily in the Chinese joint diagonally across from this abandoned gas station in San Fernando as they built the set over about a week .
The whole schmear looked like a dream come true to any gearhead .
Danny DiVito was the slimy used car guy who sold a junker to his daughters teacher in a nut shell .
-Nate
In 2010, my wife and I bought a new Honda Odyssey. We had both good and bad experiences in Honda dealers, and bought the car from one of the good dealers (who also happened to offer us the best price).
First, the Good: We wanted a relatively uncommon Odyssey EX (no leather or entertainment system), and were paying cash. The good dealer respected our wishes, didn’t try to upsell us, and didn’t try to herd us into a loan. They quoted us a price (via e-mail) and stuck to it. The salesman was middle-aged and experienced and treated us respectfully. Given the poor reputation of Honda dealers (plus some of our experienced at other dealers), I was impressed.
Now, the Bad: One dealer (located in an affluent section of Northern Virginia) flat-out told me that they have upscale clients and generally don’t order Odysseys that are not fully loaded, and weren’t interested in ordering one for me (“Because we don’t want to be stuck with it if you change your mind… which you will.”). I was shocked. And will never step foot in that place again.
Now, the Annoying: At another dealer, we had a young and inexperienced salesman, who kept calling me Dude. He knew nothing about minivans, and didn’t have a clue how anything worked in the car (like how to fold down the seats, etc.). It wasn’t a very professional experience to say the least. When we returned home after the test drive, there was a message from him on our voicemail – telling us that he was going to a Guns N Roses concert. Huh? Then there was another message from him apologizing for the first, saying that he mis-dialed and meant to call a friend instead. Well, OK. We didn’t buy a car from him, either.
But at least I did have one good experience. And that dealership is where we’ll start if we decide to buy a new Odyssey again.
You should ‘ve offered to go to the Guns N Roses concert with him, Dude. 🙂
Saw G&R in ’89, along with Stones (Steel Wheels tour, their latest probably is steel walker and wheelchair wheels tour), and Living Color. Great concert.
This hits close to home! A Honda thing? We wanted a Honda Pilot EX (no leather) just this Summer. Our local dealer only had Pilot Elites and Tourings in stock. They said the lower line ones were really rare and we would have to wait 3 months for one. An online search at Honda dealers in neighboring cities showed a Pilot EX in their inventory. Tried that one and bought it. What is up with that? I know the higher line models are more profitable but a sale is better than no sale. (?)
The 2nd dealer didn’t try to up sell us either. Another sales person offered a Pilot Elite. Our sales rep said no thank you. I am happy with the Pilot EX!
Bob
My best “traditional” experience was buying a five year old LeSabre T-Type as a 24year old at Stanford Cadillac in Menlo Park, CA in 1993 which was a stand-alone small dealer at the time. I felt like I and my money were respected, negotiations were handled well and both sides were satisfied with the outcome. I believe the staff was all long-term employees and I was definitely an out of the norm customer based on my age relative to their normal target market.
My best “internet” experiences were a new Honda Civic at Oakland Honda in CA and a new Subaru at Flatirons in Bolder, CO. Both times I engaged the internet rep, with minimal back and forth we reached consensus and picking up the car was handled quickly and efficiently with zero BS in the finance office.
My worst, by far, was a new 1995 Jetta at Boardwalk VW in Redwood City, CA which involved me literally getting into a shouting match with the sales manager on the showroom floor as he backtracked on the deal he had agreed to. As other customers watched, listened and then actually left he finally re-agreed to the deal and we completed it. I should have left myself but….Anyway, over the following years I had occasion to visit that dealer again for various potential purchases, however I never bought from them again mainly due to that first poor experience. Too bad, if they knew me as you guys do, they clearly left a lot of potential sales on the table…
I had a positive experience at Boardwalk back in ’95, as far as it went, but in the end decided to buy a Land Cruiser not a Grand Cherokee. I wanted a fairly specific set of options and was impressed that the salesman printed out an inventory of everything on the West Coast to find what I wanted and seemed happy to get a car from another store. Fast forward 6 years and when I brought my wife’s New Beetle in for one of the “free” services, they said it had too many miles for the 5K service and not enough for the 10k. She had been sick and couldn’t bring the car in, so I had actually changed the oil myself right at 5K, then brought it in at around 5750. The way I saw it, I should get 4 free services, if I remember the details of the plan correctly … hey basically said “no”. I told them I was never coming back, and never did.
I bought one new car by myself (08 Nissan Versa) and it was painless, other than having to wait for the color/option combo I wanted to be delivered from ~400 miles away. No pressure, no weird sales tactics. When it was delivered, I mentioned that there was a wind noise, and the sales guy got me a loaner (a really nice Altima, at that) and they adjusted some stuff so it was quiet after. A friend bought a similar car from the other Nissan place not long after, and got every slimy tactic in the book… so I think I dodged a bullet there!
The Mrs and I bought a Chrysler minivan from the dealer in our town, and that was extremely pleasant as well. She’s friends with the salesman’s Wife though, so that may have had something to do with it… They actually brought a van to our house to try out, which I’m guessing isn’t a normal practice, ha ha.
Now that I think of it, the van I drive I bought from a dealer. It was 2 years old at the time. It was exactly what I wanted, and the price was good. It was 2 hours away from home, though. The sales guy I had, was also dealing with the most obnoxious customer I’d ever seen though- While “my” van was getting detailed (it was a recent trade and was still full of dog hair) the other guy was loudly complaining about everything, saying he knew everyone at the dealer was a liar and a crook, just berating anyone and everything about the place. This is in an open showroom, so everyone in the building (and probably on the lot) could hear them. I caught the sales guy on one of his many trips to go talk to the manager (or more likely to just get away from Mr Jerk) and apologized for him having to deal with customers like that. He seemed more worried about me having to overhear everything, than anything else. The salesman and a manager finally told Mr Jerk to leave, once he started using racial slurs about the salesman… Ugh, I just couldn’t deal with having my income directly related to putting up with being treated like this from people…
I’ve had a few bad experiences from dealers, but I didn’t and wouldn’t buy from them. The two I did, including my current TSX wagon and my first new car a Mustang SVO were good.
Simple message: a good article, thanks.
My last dealer experience was excellent but the product was awful. But, I’d be confident about buying from them if the chance arose. The showroom was immaculate, the salesman really helpful and the cars well presented.
A major problem for dealers is that customers repeat business over a very long time frame reducing the incentive to think long term.
My first car was bought from a Pontiac dealer. I don’t remember much about that, but I did take the GTO to their service department and was mostly happy with them. I bought the 71 Riviera from the Olds/Caddy dealer, but took it to the Pontiac dealer for some service.
My 76 Riviera came from the Buick dealer. The Riviera was a used car that Buick owned (regional sales manager) and they expected to get a high price for it. A few months later it was still there and I got closer to the deal I expected. However, the engine used too much oil (700 miles per quart) but the service department was not concerned. Then coolant started to disappear and I traded for an Olds diesel from the Pontiac dealer. I had it serviced at Olds/Caddy dealer, but they did not seem to know what oil they were putting in it (required heavy duty diesel oil). So I did the oil changes.
Then I bought a new J-car Buick. I was quite happy with the Buick dealer and its service department on this car. So I bought the T-Type Electra, a Reatta, and the 95 Riviera from them. I was happy with the sales people (mostly the sales manager/or wife of), and the service department was good.
Then I bought the Aurora. The sales people were OK. Service was good. The sales department wanted to sell a 2002 Seville and decided that I should buy it. We haggled for some time, but I did not really want it, but eventually they came down to my price. Not long after the dealership combined with Buick/Pontiac but only their GMC brand went there (Olds was dead) and the Caddy franchise went to the Chevrolet dealer. So I took the Seville to Chevy for service. I was happy with the service department. Eventually I wanted an SRX (RWD, 2006), but they were not able to get one through the auction pipeline. As the 2007 model year was winding down I inquired about ordering one, but they asked what I wanted on one (premium pkg, utility pkg and 20 inch sport pkg). They found three and I picked one. I drove the SRX for several years. Since then I have bought three more cars from this deanship, but a new sales person (actually two).
I think that new car dealers are better than they used to be. I did try an out of town dealer for a CTS wagon, but that did not work out. It was a new CTS, but two year old (2013 model year, but 2011 CTS wagon). I told the salesman that I thought my offer was reasonable but they declined and I declined their counter. I left, but felt that I had been treated OK.
Buying yes. Recently bought two brand new Hondas. All financial and insurance stuff done online. Just showed up to the dealer to pick up the keys. No fuss, no hassle.
Maintenance…is another story. Essentially, I worked out free routine maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, fluids etc.) but whenever I bring the car in for service, they are always trying to sell me something unnecessary. Yesterday it was engine cleaning for $115! I was pretty annoyed.
Just bought an ’11 Malibu with the 3.6 from a local Chevy dealer here in Windsor (Dan Kane). Could have had a better experience. Went to look at a listed ’15 Impala to find that it was being used as a demo, and had 10k more km on it than what was the norm. Happened to walk by the Malibu on the lot, noticed the twin pipes, and picked it up for half the price of the Impala with scarcely any more mileage. The rep threw me the keys, and I drove it around, and when it came to the deal, I asked if he needed a deposit. He said no, and I was able to come back with a bank draft two days later. The car was completely cleaned and detailed, and the F& I guy didn’t hardly pushed any extended warranty, etc. A very nice experience, and so impressive that I kept the license plate surround on the car that advertises the dealer. This is usually removed a few milliseconds after I get a car home.
A very nice experience resulting from what sounded not so good at first! Knowing your history we will all be oohing and aahing over this Malibu at the 2038 CC meet-up….
Thanks, Jim, for the kind words. I actually liked the looks of this generation Malibu when it came out, especially in V-6 form, which seems to account for only about 10-20% of what I see, hence the search for an Impala with the same sort of engine. I drove the last version Malibu with the 2.5 and start/stop and was disappointed. I haven’t driven the latest iteration, but the Impala V-6 was just the ticket. I actually bought the car partly because I end up being the driver whenever a group of guys goes up to the cottage, and got sick of them carping about my poor Focus wagon, So the first trip was up to the cottage with a load of guys that haven’t seen the sunny side of 250lbs in a long while, and it went beautifully. Plenty of pep and about 36mpg (Imperial) on average. Since then, I’ve been afraid to put mileage on it, so it is holed up in the barn while I drive my oldies around!
You want a horror story about new cars – My buddy picked up a brand new supercharged Jag sedan this Summer, which promptly boiled over on the second day of ownership, but the worst part is the stop/start technology. The damned thing would stop and start every thirty seconds whilst we were lined up on the Ambassador bridge, creeping along in traffic, It was rough as old boots, shaking itself off and on constantly. Made the ‘Bu almost seem civilized in comparison!
My XT5 has the start/stop tech, which I find most annoying when I park as the engine will stop and then restart when I put it into neutral and park. However I recently discovered that it the transmission is in manual mode the engine does not seem to stop. So I have been putting it into manual as I drive into my garage.
I plan to tell my (2nd) car salesman this.
I like the generation of Malibu that you have. Some say the back seat isn’t roomy enough and I think it may be smaller than the prior generation but otherwise the car seems good (and is more attractive than the prior one which always looked a bit too long and skinny to me). I think Will may have reviewed one as a rental on here a couple of years back and liked it but don’t think it had the six. I hope you enjoy it, it surely is a better road trip car than the Focus. Congrats!
That sounds annoying as hell! Is the idea behind that particular piece of ‘stop/start’ technology to save gas when stuck in heavy traffic?
Last three were mostly good.
Still driving the Honda I bought via a young salesman who gave me a great price up front after a little gentle back and forth. When I called other dealers, only one (in Towson, FWIW) would match the price, but charged extra for the “special lugnuts” used on the alloy wheels. That was actually helpful, it indicated that I was close to drawing blood on my original deal. The young salesman told me he got in a little hot water over letting me take a longish test drive, so I made sure that I purchased that exact vehicle when the time came a few days later to absorb the mileage and absolve him.
Before that I bought a Volvo 240 off a used lot. It needed a blower motor. As part of the deal, I agreed to install it if they would buy the part. They thought I was crazy, obviously had called around to find out what that repair costs (6-8 hours). I got a great price on that car, got the new blower parts free over the Volvo counter, and was essentially paid to take the dash off and replace it with one I had found that wasn’t cracked. When I went in to pick it up there were other customers around it, trying to buy it out from under me, but the dealer kept their end. I took a few glowers on the way out.
The used diesel Passat I tried before that ended up with the car leaving a thick cloud of black smoke behind it starting about halfway through the test-drive. Next day the salesman called to tell me that it was just a loose hose that had come off, but I think it helped me dodge one there. He sounded resigned in a way that said it wasn’t completely unexpected. Nice VW dealership, but there’s a cosseting smugness about the VAG properties I’ve been to that’s a little precious, it smells like things will get expensive.
I think the key with any dealer is to nope your way out as soon as a lie is told. If there’s one, there will be more, and you won’t catch them all.
I had my best dealership experience when I bought my Matrix XRS (https://www.curbsideclassic.com/cars-of-a-lifetime/coal-2003-toyota-matrix-xrs-the-blue-pill/).
Salesman was older than me and had been with that dealership for a quarter century. We both knew I was buying a car more used than their norm, and we both knew I knew what the car was worth. So when I decided to buy, the negotiation took about five minutes, it took ten minutes for the manager to say yes, I wrote a personal check, and I drove away with the car.
During the negotiation there were some upsells to which I said no thanks, and that was that.
Perfect. Would do it again.
PS: That car now has 185k miles on it and needs two repairs that are so expensive it doesn’t make sense to me to have them done. Sadly, it’s time to part with what could be my favorite car ever.
So Jim, if it is your favorite car ever how massive can these repairs be? I’m a sucker for sentimentality with my Trooper, but every repair has been made with the distinct thought that not only does it have a long and tremendous history with me and my kid, it is also my most comfortable car ever. Sure it’s no longer up to daily duty (it serves as our New England vacation car…), but I can’t imagine life without it.
Sometimes a car is more than a car, as it seems your Matrix is to you.
I sense that this car is beginning its slide into oblivion, and I prefer to be on the front end of that curve rather than the back end!!
The new-car buying experience in Mexico is radically different than in the USA. In general, a car has a price assigned by the manufacturer, and that is the price. Period. Most manufacturers will offer buyer incentives from time to time, especially in December, on even popular models, for example: complete insurance coverage and a greatly reduced price (move the metal before 31 December). The only negotiables, and not really much wiggle room here, are trade-in value and length of loan/down paymen schedule. The buyer may shop for his own financing, but usually manufacturer financing schemes are quite attractive. Mexicans generally do not lease vehicles, except for business use. (Hence, not all that many BMWs and Mercedes-Benzs on the road.)
My experience with Nami Nissan of Pachuca, Hidalgo has always been very good (unlike what is commonly the case in USA). For example, they have repaired minor road damage free of charge when the warranty would not cover it, fixed things off warranty at a greatly discounted price when it was clearly a defect, always charged quoted amount for repairs and service, OR USUALLY LESS, and generally stuck by their promises in a most professional and courteous way.
Service includes changing light bulbs for free or for only the cost of the bulb, full washing/cleaning inside and out including the engine bay and undercarriage, and of course, complete systems and safety check throughout.
I feel sorry for people who have to deal with dealers in USA.
That’s really how it should be everywhere: a good has a price and that’s that. I’ve never known anyone to walk into a grocery store and try to haggle over the price of an apple.
Unfortunately there is competition in the real world. There are no BMW dealers nearby here, although many people do have them, so apparently a 700 mile round trip to dealers is not prohibitive. For me that is too far, so I buy what is available locally.
I buy GMC light-duty trucks from Frank’s Truck Center in Lyndhurst, New Jersey because the service for repairs is excellent, the sales force are knowledgeable. I have not had one bad deal with them and have bought so far five GMC trucks from them. I drive thirty miles through Metropolitan New York traffic to get to them and it is worth the trip. Prices for service are always fair, no overcharging. Yes, there are good dealers out there.
My experience fits the norm. My best one was with a guy who was at the same dealership for over 20 years. The car, a new X-Car, was crap but I didn’t know that until later. Not his fault.
At 53 years old, i have owned 35+ cars and trucks. Some new, some used. I have found my best experience at Fields Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge in Sanford, FL. I’ve leased 2 and I just bought myself a Dodge Charger R/T. Of those 35+ vehicles, I’ve never had a fast car until now. You can deal directly with the Sales Manager at Fields. Too bad it’s an hour and a half drive from my house.
For all the bad you hear about dealerships out there, I’ve really only had one bad experience and that had to do with a warranty claim for bad paint some time after the sale. I don’t count my time as a fleet manager, as fleet sales are a totally different experience than retail. I have had a few lie to me during the initial contact, but that was the last they saw of me or my money.
My last purchase was about 18 months ago when I bought a 2016 Canyon from a small dealer in rural BC. I was upfront about what I wanted and didn’t want, made it clear that I knew what programs GM was offering at the time and wasn’t interested in the “wax and tar” packages. We came to fair terms in 90 minutes, he drove me to the insurance office and that was it. Totally painless. Everyone I dealt with was professional and courteous. Service after the fact was great.
And now I see they have been bought out by a big city “Dealer Group”, and the whole crew is gone. Sadly, this seems to be how the industry is going, and what few bad experiences I have had were all at franchises that were part of such a group. We’ll see I guess..
I’ve had several good dealer experiences, but 3 stand out as excellent.
The first was with the first new car I ever bought, a 1984 Chevy Cavalier Hatchback. The owner of a small town Iowa dealer was actually the sales person that sold it to me. I was young, right out of college, buying a relatively inexpensive car, but the dealer didn’t seem to care and treated me great. I wanted a manual transmission, and after searching for a car with that and the other features I wanted, and not finding one, he ordered one for me. Kept me updated after I ordered the car, even calling me and telling me the day it was scheduled to be built and shipped. Great fun and an overall great experience.
The second great experience was with my 1988 Acura Integra. I bought the car from a retired career Air Force service man who was a long time car enthusiast working for a new Acura dealer. He had never sold cars before, and he and the others at the dealer treated me very well, giving me a good deal, and upon learning I was uneasy with just anyone transporting my new car from another dealer, the salesmen went to pick it up for me.
The third excellent experience was with my 2010 Dodge Challenger. It was bought from a small town dealer in Illinois. The salesman, who had worked at the dealer many years, treated me very well and quickly came to a good price, and the dealer owner spent time talking with me and personally thanking me for choosing their dealership. And, to top it off, when I picked the car up just after Christmas, my wife arranged for them to put a big white bow on my new Challenger, and they let me drive it out of the show room. Great fun and an excellent experience with a great car that I still have.
My best new car dealer experience was Laurel Kia of Laurel MD. The buying experience was good. The maintenance service was good also, once when I was there to have the oil changed, the tech noticed that the rubber seal on the drivers door had a tear on it, it was replaced at no charge.
The best used car experiences i have had were the following:
CARMAX – good selection, good prices for the most part(some were priced a bit higher then they should have been) and their sales and service folks were good (all issues I had were addressed). The sales folks are available to show you cars but leave you be and do not hover.
I only had one issue with them which was pertaining to floor mats in a Ford Fiesta. They have a policy of not cleaning the factory mats and tossing them to replace them with cheapy ones. This was not a problem most of the time but with this car, the mat was designed to be locked to the floor so that they did not go under the pedals. The aftermarket one kept sliding under the clutch pedal. They ended up telling me to buy it and then bring the receipt to get paid back.
Hoffmann Brothers used cars in Laurel MD – This is a little mom and pop type dealership that is across from a branch of my bank. I have bought several cars from them and the experience has gone well. I get a buyers order from them, walk across the street to the bank, bring back a cashiers check and I am off and about.
My worst dealership experiences:
Antwerpen Toyota
Darcars Toyota
Bowie Toyota
Laurel Toyota(Carmax owned)(Carmax has great service at their used car dealers but crappy service at their new car dealer just across the street)
Per my comment yesterday on the Camry COAL, Antwerpen was the last Toyota dealer I visited and the one that made me vow never to set foot in a Toyota dealer again. I thought CarMax might be different, though. I know someone who had a good experience at CarMax Toyota in Laurel, MD.
Perhaps that person that you know, bought a vehicle with a Toyota badge on it. That might have made the difference. I had a Scion XB and despite Scion being Toyotas hope to bring in new customers that were younger, the brand seemed to be looked down on by Toyota dealerships and their maintenance departments
In any event, that experience with the XB, means that I will never buy another Toyota. If I was faced with the choice of buying a Toyota or taking the bus, I would gladly buy a bus pass
Amen to that!
Yes, we bought a number of Toyotas at CarMax in Laurel, but we always had very good experiences chiefly due to the no-haggle pricing, which I liked but others don’t. I bought enough cars there, though, that I was able to return to the same salespeople regularly. The Camry that was the subject of yesterday’s COAL was bought at another dealer outside DC that I don’t think is still in business, or at least not under the name it was using in 1997. I think your experiences (positive or negative) depended on the day and the salesperson. (I will admit that it’s been quite a few years since I bought a Toyota from them, so things may have changed.)
I had no problem with the CarMax used car center in laurel, those folks leave you be to look all about the car. The warranty repairs were taken care of quickly and the repair center was pretty good.
The CarMax Toyota just next door was horrible with their service department and their sales department. I would gladly buy another car from the CarMax used car center.
I only bought one new car in my life so far, and after experiencing the concept of depreciation perhaps I won’t ever again- but then if I have my way, my Metris will last me.
I picked my dealer (Contemporary Motor Cars of Little Silver, NJ) because I had been servicing my used cars there for years, they had been more than good to me, and I trusted their service department completely.
I ordered the car before the official order book opened. I had a dealer order guide price list, decided what I wanted, wrote down what I wanted, and was quoted invoice (not bad for a car that was brand new and not yet on sale). I didn’t particualrly like the salesman who took the order, but the rest of the experience was great.
The call came in about six months later that my car was in. I came in, took it for an acceptance test drive (It drove perfect, and all options ordered were installed) and was sent to the fiancé guy.
As planned, I paid roughly half down, half over 5 years. The financing was easy. All the offered me was the Mercedes ELW, which they showed me a price list for, and explained I could but it now and roll it into the loan, or buy it for 10% more at any time until the end of the regular warranty. Same deal with “prepaid maintenance”, which I declined- without comment.
They handed me my keys, a free Sprinter mug (they didn’t have Metris mugs yet!) and I was out an hour after I came in.
During the 1980s, when I was full-time employed, I went new car shopping a few times.
But I got so disgusted with the bait & switch and added dealer markup – prevailing dealer practices in Northern Virginia at the time – I vowed to keep driving my ’71 Audi wagon, and swore off buying new cars.
By 1990, parts supplies for my ancient Audi had dried up and I started shopping for it’s replacement – a compact Japanese pickup. Nissans and Toyotas had the name and the highest prices, so I looked at examples from Mitsubishi and Isuzu, and found an ’87 Isuzu LS with only 37k-miles at a Falls-Church Chevy dealer.
Based on their newspaper ads I’d been following, they had already marked it down from their price of a couple weeks earlier, but readily accepted my offer of a few hundred less than that – probably because this truck was fully loaded, EXCEPT for air-conditioning – a major liability in the DC area! The transaction went without any hassles and it turned out to be the most reliable used vehicle I’ve ever owned. And within a couple months, using mostly salvage-yard parts, I installed ‘factory’ AC.
In 2005, my ’84 beater Accord was nearing it’s end and would no longer pass emission inspection. I came into some money and started shopping for something nice for $10K or less. My first stop was the used car lot of a local Honda dealer, where I encountered the most obnoxious, pushy salesman, who kept showing me high-mileage & well-salted late-90s Accords for well over my price limit, while unbelievably, spouting every car salesman cliche you could imagine – including “What can I do to put you in this car today?!”. I walked.
A week later came my most satisfying car dealer experience. My local Volvo dealer’s used car lot advertised a pair of ’98 Nissan Altimas.
I showed up and was greeted by a friendly, low-key Middle-Eastern gentleman, who handed me the keys and let me check out and test-drive both vehicles without hovering nearby. The first was an immaculate looking silver sedan with about 120K, priced at $4200 I started it and from the alarming engine racket, I could tell immediately that a test drive would be a waste of time.
Next to the noisy one was a faded white sedan, with 134K, for $3900. not as pretty as the silver one, with a slightly dinged front fender and grungy carpeting. At least on this one, along with the cold AC, the engine & tranny ran perfectly. Plus it had factory keyless entry & alarm, a sunroof with the interior lighting package, and a premium six-speaker CD & cassette system.
There were some noises from a rear wheel bearing, and a damaged CV-joint – easy fixes I could do myself, plus the crappy, lumpy tires definitely needed replacement.
I offered several hundred below the asking price and it was accepted.
The most memorable thing about this transaction, came a few days later.
I went back to ask the salesman if maybe I could offer a few dollars for the owners manuals from the other Altima with the bad engine, since they were missing from mine. He went out and got the zipper-pouch with all the manuals from the glove-box and handed them to me – no charge!
The Altima turned out to be the second most reliable vehicle I’ve owned and I’m still driving it today with over 200K-miles!
Happy Motoring, Mark
Best experience was buying a 2 year old used Buick on eBay. I bid on the car what I felt it was worth, but didn’t hit the minimum bid. The dealer (Daytona Beach FL) called me the next day and said “make me an offer.” So I did and he said yes. Flew from Detroit to Orlando on Southwest for $80 and a shuttle ride to Daytona Beach where the salesman picked me up. Wrote him a personal check for the full amount and I was off. Car was well detailed, had an oil change, and a full tank of gas.
By far the easiest deal I’ve ever done. The car was priced two thousand less than comparable cars at home and I had a nice ride back from FL.
Generally positive dealer experiences here so far, thankfully. Got off to a good start with our hometown Toyota dealer, who our family had been dealing with for years and treated us very well. Our last purchase was through the local credit union’s buying program, which also went very smoothly. The first vehicle we tried didn’t have the expected equipment (mid-year, unadvertised changes), but the dealer involved switched it with no fuss.
Worst experience? Two different Mazda dealers who tried every cliched trick in the book. We gave up and left; a shame, since Mazda cars are quite appealing. The BMW salesman who demonstrated high speed handling & stability by having us swerve onto a raised berm at 75 was pretty entertaining, though. Straight-up nuts, but entertaining.
Actually, my experiences have been generally decent. Worst was in the early ’80’s when I considered an Accord, and the saleswoman wouldn’t let me order one without the pinstripes, paint and upholstery protection add-on – plus dealer markup. I was willing to negotiate price but I refused to let them spray some crap on my paint and seats and apply some pinstriping tape on it. It got heated and the sales manager asked me to leave. I’ve had two very positive used-car purchases from local Toyota dealers, and a good new car purchase from an online broker … the dealership he selected delivered the car to my house (Walnut Creek to Los Altos, California, non-trivial in Bay Area traffic) and let me test drive it before I had paid a penny, and they took a personal check. And it was just a VW. But the best was my Forester at Carlsen in Redwood City: they ordered the car I wanted from a dealer in LA, $200 over invoice taking into account holdbacks at least as shown on Edmunds or maybe KBB online, and the paperwork took about 20 minutes. At the time, one manager, one sales guy, and one F&I guy in the whole store; all serious car guys, and no BS.
Best dealer experience I had was buying my 1995 Celica GT coupe. The coupes (especially the GT) were rare even when new, and I wanted a stick. Only catch was I did not know how to drive one at the time. Once I had the cash in hand, I located one waay across the Twin Cities nearly an hour away. I called the dealer up and asked for a sales associate. Basically told Neil (still remember him to this day!) I really like these Celicas, had already driven an auto, but I can’t drive stick. If I come out, could you teach me how to drive it? He said come on in, and proceeded to take an over an hour with me in a large parking lot, and later side streets showing me how to do it. Sold. No games with pricing or upselling, 20 minutes of paperwork. Birthday cards for years after I got the car. If I still lived there and wanted a Toyota I’d be back, no questions about that.
I had an unbelievably awful experience with a workshop last year, but I’ve never had a particularly bad car buying experience – i.e. being lied to, being harassed about taking optional extras etc. I’ve probably paid more than I should sometimes, but I don’t really know. It’s been a decade since I bought a car at a dealership and I’d probably negotiate harder now.
I recall a friend of mine browsing the used car section at a franchise dealer (can’t recall the brand) in Aberdeen, Scotland. He fell in love with an Alfa Romeo 156, but presumably due to his boyish looks ( he would be 24ish at the time) and the fact he arrived in a battered Cavalier, the veteran salesman just said “Nah, you don’t want one of those son, they just break”.
I’ve had really great experiences with the Lexus dealer here in Annapolis, Maryland that I used to buy several cars (spoiler alert for COAL readers!) They always treated me very well, were helpful and friendly, and provided great service after the sale (the idea of getting a free loaner that wasn’t a beat-up rental car was AMAZING to me). They were great with paperwork, too – from the time I entered the dealership with the intention to buy to the time I was walking out with my newly-leased car was usually about an hour or less. Of course, I paid through the nose for that level of service, but it’s nice to know that it’s still available.
Some bad experiences here too – I forgot to mention this in my COAL writeup of the 1994 Civic, but I did consider the original Cockroach of the Road, the A-body Buick Century. That experience was absolutely awful – I showed up with a paper from my credit union that entitled me to a discount, and the salesman was elaborately disinterested in helping me. It was pouring down rain that day, and he made me go out in the rain (no umbrella) and pick a particular Century to test drive (instead of just taking the nearest one in the model I wanted). During the test drive, he didn’t want to talk to me, but wanted to blast the radio to catch up on the football game. When we got back to the dealer, the salesperson tried to take the paper from my credit union with the discount information on it so I couldn’t take it to any other dealer. When he left with the paper, I noted to the person I was with that the salesperson must think I was pretty stupid if I was going to make a fuss about the paper since I could just go get another one at the credit union. Wonder of wonders, he came back with the paper and gave it back to me. Needless to say, I didn’t end up buying from that dealer.
If the buyer does his homework (i.e: research like NADA.com, TrueCar.com, financing already lined up, value of trade in, etc), the buyer has the upper hand. However, so many just walk in and get emotional and play into the dealer’s hand.
I have found it less stressful to buy three parcels of real estate than buying four cars in my lifetime ????
Oh, yeah – one other story from my dad’s experiences. My dad was thinking of getting a midlife crisis car and was considering a Toyota Supra (not remembering right now which version it was, but I think it was the 1993-2002 edition). I happened to be in Ohio at the time and was game to try out this car, whose performance was pretty amazing for the time. We went to the local Toyota dealer and they told him that he couldn’t test drive the car unless he agreed to purchase it first. Once he committed to buy, then we could drive the car. Apparently, this dealership didn’t understand how test drives work. Needless to say, my dad walked immediately and went over to buy an Acura.
That is extremely annoying. While I can see the dealership wanting to avoid a lot of people testing their flagship models just for fun, you’d think a good salesman would see when a customer is actually serious. Good for your dad that he took his business elsewhere.
I read the “dog and pony show” article, and if their prices are genuinely low or lowish, I don’t understand why sales are only up 7%.
Without a doubt, yes. I bought my first new car June 18, 2015. The experience was so pleasant that I went back on February 20, 2016, after the first car was totaled. Emailed my salesman from the first deal to go in and do the other. If I were to find myself in need of a car, I’d be there. Wilson County Hyundai, in Lebanon, TN. They also own a Buick/Chevy/GMC dealer. Their online site shows all offers which are available at the time (and points out that you might not qualify for all), they were lower than the closer competitor, which is a larger Hyundai dealer, and stock Elantras with manuals. Nobody was difficult or condescending, nobody tried to four-square me, and they were always quick to offer a complimentary soft drink or bottle of water. If they have a comfortable place to work out a deal, don’t gouge with add-ons, price fairly, and answer your questions, what else could you want? Many dealers aren’t able to dismiss that full list.
Bad – (1989) A sales guy at a Mitsubishi dealer who said the colour we wanted was discontinued (it wasn’t; he really wanted to push a red Magna which looked horrible), and who ‘lost’ the keys to our trade-in while we went for a test drive. That was during my lunch break, and I had to get back to work – NOT HAPPY! He did some other no-nos that I forget, so we went to another dealer. When Mitsubishi contacted us about our dealership experience, I dobbed in the dodgy guy.
Amusing – (2000) Two very pretty young things in low-cut tops who the sales manager brought in to try and upsell us on paint protection. Very nice about it, but I pointed to our eleven-year-old trade-in (nice and shiny), and said it didn’t have paint protection and had never been polished. I politely enquired of the sales manager whether Mitsubishi had downgraded their paint process since 1989, that paint protection was now necessary?
Good – (1989) My wife visited the dealership with a toddler in one hand and baby in the other. Female sales person ran to open the door for her, sat her down, oohed and aahed over the baby, and brought out a box of toys for the toddler. Then they sat down to business. She respected my wife’s intelligence, understood what my wife wanted, no nonsense, no gimmicks. SOLD!
I commented on this in the Camry article, but our last 4 dealership visits were good.
When we bought our old 2002 CR-V, the dealer balked at the internet price of $500.00 off sticker and only wanted to do $250.00. He did agree, though.
Our 2004 Impala was seamless as I got a $3,000.00 rebate on top of a supplier discount that amounted to close to 8%. Same with our 2012 Impala.
Our most recent purchase was our 2015 CR-V back in February. The sales guy even offered us a discounted price, which is what I was going to counter, which was a very fair price.
Before that – umm… hit and miss and one disaster many, many years ago.
“… See, that TruCoat, they install that at the factory. There’s nothing I can do about it. But I’ll talk to my boss…”
One of my favorite scenes from the move “Fargo”.
I worked for Natzel Oldsmobile during the diesel debacle, it was very educational indeed .
Most of the service Techs were O.K., the service writers were awful and shameless to the extreme .
Back when I was married my then wife bought a new 1989 Honda Accord from supposedly their best salesman, he gave her the okey-doke and she dug in her heels, wasted the entire day @ Robertson Honda on North Hollywood, Ca. until they gave in and sold her the car for invoice (IIRC) just to get rid of her, we were the very last people out the door that evening .
I’ve only bought new Motocycles and it was painless, I agreed to the price they offered and gave them a check, rode away 20 minutes later .
-Nate
No haggle dealerships are silly. It takes the fun out of it.
While I agree with your sentiment, the vast majority despise the whole song and dance and just want to buy a car and not feel like they need a shower after. I’m in a dealership probably twice a month, helping friends and associates with their hunt. These last 2 weeks have been unique in that I’ve helped 6 folks land new cars in the wake of Harvey.
I have a broad knowledge of the region dealers and have contacts at the decent ones who I constantly reach out to nail a secure price for a friend. I can’t begin to tell you the relief many people feel just by having someone with no vested interest holding their hand.
The sad reality is a person buys a car every 3-8+ years and is at a distinct disadvantage walking into a dealership when deals are made daily. There ARE good, honest salespeople and dealerships out there…it may take a while to find them. I’ve found the family-owned dealers most consistent in their commitment to the customer and a reasonable (but usually not lowest) price. The peace of mind is well worth the few dollars extra.
No real disasters, if the sales person was obnoxious or didn’t know what he/she was talking about or flat out lied, I just walked. The internet has revolutionized car shopping, you can now search dealer’s inventories from the comfort of your home. One thing I learned early was to always bring a spare key for the trade-in vehicle; that way, when they give you that “lost key” BS, you can pull out the other key and head for the door. You would be surprised at how fast that “lost key” gets found after that.
At least here in southern Indiana there are still multiple shopping options for most brands, especially if you are willing to drive a little. This competition does seemingly help to keep prices under some semblance of control. I don’t know how much longer this will continue as more and more of the small town dealers are closing and the conglomerates gobble up more and more of what is left. Here in Evansville two dealership groups control something like 85% of new car sales.
I fully understand where many people come from having serious hatred for dealers and car salespeople. It’s a sad truth that a lot of people have had poor dealership experiences, but I’m sure we’ve all had poor experiences at dealerships just as we have had at restaurants, hotels, stores, etc.
Being a car salesperson, I can assure you all that at least at my dealer, our goal is never to “screw anyone”. Just like any for-profit business, as a dealer, we need to make profit in order to stay in business.
The honest truth is that what cars are priced at versus their wholesale cost isn’t as much as most would think. At least with MINI and BMW, “markup” is only about 4-7% of MSRP. I’m looking at the specs of a 2018 BMW 540i as we speak, and with an MSRP of $71,870, wholesale cost is $67,440. Translate that to a $25K MINI, and wholesale cost is less than $1,000.
It’s honestly the decades old system that has made buying and selling cars at a dealer difficult from both sides. There’s this whole paranoia that as a buyer, you’re walking into a car dealer about to get taken, so you need to fight for every last penny, and that you need to leave feeling like you got a “deal” in the form of a discount off the price tag. It’s something that every since I was a kid, I never could wrap my brain around.
The truth is however that just like any other tangible consumer good, cars have price. From a consumer’s standpoint, I’ve never understood why people “haggle” when they walk into a dealer. Do they go into a clothing store and tell the salesperson “I’ll buy these $50 jeans, but I’m only paying $40”. The salesperson will probably look at them in disbelief.
I nor my dealer are not here to screw you. Just like Walmart or Dunkin Donuts, we’re here to sell you a product for a little over what it costs us to own for a profit. And just like at Panera Bread when you order a salad and they ask if you’d like to add a pastry to it so they can make a tiny bit more money, when you buy a car the finance manager will ask you if you want to purchase an extended warranty or tire & wheel protection. You may want it, you may not, but we are a business trying to make money so it’s worth a shot. All you have to do is decline, and that’s that.
On the contrary, as a consumer, a word of advice: don’t walk into a dealership in full Gestapo mode with your guns blazing. It may surprise you, but car salespeople are humans with souls. We work hard, put in long hours, often without any fruitful results. I treat every person that walks in with respect and go out of my way often to make sure they are pleased.
But as long as you are respectful to me, I’ll go above and beyond with my level of service and make sure you have the most enjoyable and fun dealership experience of your life, and that we’ll probably be sending each other Christmas cards. There’s nothing more rewarding to me than seeing someone drive off genuinely happy.
“as long as you are respectful to me, I’ll go above and beyond with my level of service”
That’s true of all interaction with employees there to help you, really. In my long career of customer service/management, the moment either I or one of my employees is disrespected is the exact same time you are now going to receive the bare minimum required. As a “final say” manager who only answered to the direct owners, I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been told “Your boss said ____, and I want it, NOW!” I’m always polite, but in my head I know that the desired outcome won’t be happening whatsoever, and the problem isn’t ours, but the customer’s unreasonable nature and expectations.
“$25K MINI”
Those actually exist? (Sorry Brendan, I had to ?)
“I’ve never understood why people “haggle” when they walk into a dealer. Do they go into a clothing store and tell the salesperson “I’ll buy these $50 jeans, but I’m only paying $40”. The salesperson will probably look at them in disbelief”
Brendan, there is an answer for this…… In our culture, its normal not to haggle on the small purchases, but to haggle on the large ones. We see this not only with cars, but also homes and often, major appliances. Our system, including dealerships participate and perpetuate this system, whether we like it or not.
Other cultures have a different approach. Some cultures require haggling over everything, including small purchases.
Actually, it’s become increasingly more acceptable to haggle, perhaps because of the influence of many immigrants or just changing mores. Consumer Reports actively encourages (appropriate) haggling on a wide variety of consumer goods and services. There is typically a substantial margin built into retail store’s prices, and there’s no harm to ask if a discount or adjustment is available. Many folks do, even for $50 jeans; maybe especially so, since they’re so overpriced. 🙂
I have become more emboldened to haggle. I threatened to cut my internet service if I didn’t get a lower price, and they gave it to me. Cable/telecommunications firms are particular good targets for negotiating, as their products do not have a firm unit cost to them; the incremental cost to provide service to one more customer is minute.
I think it’s a matter of how it’s done. But my understanding is that it’s not uncommon to give discounts to folks shopping in department stores and such, if asked to. The world of commerce has become increasingly more competitive, and retail is under a lot of pressure from Amazon and such. They will often lower prices, if asked politely but firmly.
I also don’t like to be obnoxious, and a few bucks one way or another doesn’t really mean anything to me. But there’s no harm in asking.
I’ll frequently do it at Home Depot or Lowe’s, Lowe’s even has a program where they will enter your whole order offline and it comes back with a discounted offer if it’s large enough.
I once even tried it on a nice pair of Ecco shoes at Nordstrom. I just asked politely if a discount were possible, the sales lady checked and then offered me $30 (on a price of around $200). At the point of asking I was already at the counter with my money out of my pocket, I was buying them regardless. I still have the shoes fifteen years later.
Any appliance store, bike shop, etc that has items costing several hundred dollars or more, especially if independently owned (like most car dealerships) will often be willing to haggle. Just be polite, the worst they can say is no and then you decide if you still want it. It’s no different than asking for an upgrade at a hotel or at the rental car counter. It’s a transaction, they want to sell, you want to buy. If it works for both sides, why not? And if you’re happy, you’ll likely be back to spend more.
I totally agree about being polite but, as I am sure you’d agree, not every dealership is the same. A great factor for me going for the car I went for ultimately (a Mazda) were the either disinterested or unreasonable responses I got from those other dealers (Fiat/Alfa, Citroen, Suzuki). A sudden death for me was non-availability of a test vehicle or setting preposterous limitations on the time I could take the car out for.
As for haggling it is the way of the world – here in Austria too. In my “defense” I have to say the car was a demonstrator (albeit with low mileage) for which one cannot expect to pay list price; I managed to go from €30K to €21K. However, feeling I got something for my efforts as well as being – so far – treated with respect by the dealer means I will keep coming back for my services even though there’s another official Mazda workshop nearer to me. So there are two sides to that coin.
kelly blue book (KBB) shows that a 2018 BMW 5 series (550) retails at about 73000 and the invoice is about 4500 less. A Mini retails at 22500 and the invoice is about 21000. BMW does not have holdback according to Edmunds.
A V-Sport premium CTS is priced over 70,000 with a an invoice about 4500 less, but now there is also a 3% holdback, which is worth about 2,000.
I think most people have trade in’s, but I am not sure. I do, so the haggling is mostly over my trade in’s value, which is easily found on Kbb, Edmunds and NADA websites.
Kohls, JC Penny etc, are perpetually running some sort of sale and usually have something on sale, so rather than haggle I just wait for a sale.
My recent trade for a new car went far better than I expected. I got a 4000 incentive, and perhaps the dealer had something too? Anyway the average trade in for my CTS was about 25000 but they gave me about 27500 which was a better deal than I expected after haggling. So I took their offer. My used CTS is now gone, and was price close to the trade in they gave me, but if someone traded something in they may have paid more.
I wonder if we’d get different responses based on the gender of the gender of the person person buying the car. I’ve only bought a car once in my life and it was pretty hassle free, I’ve heard stories about negative experiences from my woman friends. One woman I know didn’t buy a car from a particular dealership because the salesman would only talk to her husband even though she was the one buying the car. Even when her husband kept answering his questions with “I don’t know, ask her. It’ll be her car.” he still only talked to him and pretty much ignored her.
I’ve only bought 2 vehicles in my life from dealerships, my ’73 Sport Bug in ’75 and my 2004 Nissan Titan, only vehicle ever bought brand new. Have to agree with Paul on the point about the decline of many dealerships and high rate of turnover, these days pay is low and matters more than experience, customer satisfaction be dammed. Last dealership I worked for ended in 2008, and won’t be working for any dealership again. Worked for dealerships for 30 years and pay and working conditions went downhill big time from about 2005 on, at least in the PDX area.
I got the deal I wanted on the truck, the Monroney sticker was $23,260 and I offered 18k.
I worked for the Nissan dealership, factory had a 2k rebate and Nissan employees were offered and additional 1.5k discount, for a total of $3500. The truck I wanted was a stripper 2wd ’04 that had been on the lot 9 months, had about 200 miles on it, it was dealer traded and driven down from Seattle, was advertised for 21,000 on the lot.
It took a month of being chased around by salesmen walking into the parts department where I worked with various counteroffers, when it was finally down to $18,300, I told them only $300 to go. At one point they told me they had another customer test driving it, I told them to sell it to him, my old Chevy still runs fine.
TThe ’05’s were on the lot (Nov, 2004) and I stuck to my price. Finally a few days later the sales manager asked me if I was serious about buying the truck, I told him I was if the price was down to 18k. He agreed, I went through the F&I guys undercoating and paint guard, extended warranty, etc. routine, saying “no” about 12 times. Sales manager came out with a payment schedule for me to sign, I told him I would write a check in full. He gave me an angry stare and said he would only accept a cashiers check, bank was closed for the weekend so I got the check and drove it home the following Monday.
I was happy with the deal, but the experience has convinced me no more dealership purchases are in my future. Next month will 13 years I’ve owned the truck, I plan on making this another 30 year truck assuming I’m (and the Titan) are still around in driving condition in 2034.
The best dealer experience was purchasing my Chevy 2500HD. My salesman was professional and stated he wasn’t concerned about me losing at Fords diesels stating Chevy’s gassed was better than their Powerstroke, then spent fifteen minutes outlining each difference. He found every discount available then got me a 400 dollar Costco card and followed up making sure I got it. Then about five months later I was headed home to CA westbound on I-80 in NV out of the blue he text’ed me saying he was eastbound to CO. We met with in Winnemucca NV, and introduced his wife and kids and bought me lunch.
Needless to say he has my business for life.
The majority of my car purchases have been private sales, as I have tended to avoid dealerships. That said, I have had a total of four purchases from new car dealer over the years. Now that I think about it, they were all easy, painless and relatively good experiences.
The first was my ’88 Grand Marquis I bought in the 90’s when I was working at a GM dealer. It was traded and was on the list to be wholesaled. I just made a quick offer low ball offer to the sales manager, and he said, it’s yours. Signed on the dotted line, did my own work in their shop to get it to pass safety. I guess this one doesn’t really count though, since I was an employee.
Next would be the ’97 Accord I bought my mom about 15 years ago. She had an ’85 Olds Delta 88 as her daily driver, and I wanted. I also wanted to get mom into a more fuel efficient car. So, I bought her the Honda and she gave me the Olds. The Honda was a certified used car, and I dealt with a veteran salesman. I made a cash offer and he accepted. No BS, no games, but I think he also sensed that was also the type of buyer I was.
Next up was my Tundra, which was a certified used car at a dealership near my in-laws. The ad came up on the internet, and the deal seemed really good. Called up the salesman, and he turned out to be a veteran of the business. He had a bunch of callers because of the price, but I was the only one ready with cash to buy then and there. He played no games and knew I was serious. We ended up making the deal over the phone and he even knocked a few extra bucks off the phone. The sale was pending a road test/inspection, which I had to get my FIL and wife to do (I couldn’t get away from work). But it all worked out, still have the Truck six years later.
Last up was my first and only new car. I have always been able to get good deals on fairly new cars, and beat out some of the depreciation. But we after we decided our next car was going to be an Outback, we decided to go new. First off, we wanted the Gen 5 car, and used ones weren’t abundant. And the ones we found weren’t really much cheaper, especially since most had enough mileage that they weren’t far off needing maintenance.
When we were shopping Outbacks were hot and very hard to find. Our local Subaru dealer couldn’t get one in stock to even test drive, and the salesman who had about 15 seconds experience wasn’t getting a sale out of me. So we took a 1.5 hour drive south to a small town Subaru dealer to try one out. I actually pre-booked the road test to make sure they had a car. I got a veteran dealer and he treated us really well. After the road test, we of course had to talk turkey. I knew the prices on these cars and knew what a good deal was at the time. Much to my surprise, he gave me an awesome price so we closed the deal. I had really expected that I’d be buying from a big city dealer to get a decent price, but this guy gave me the best quote. It was a very quick and painless transaction, although we had to wait 6 weeks to get the car since it had to be ordered new. Like I said they were very hard to find at that time. I was fine with that since I picked it up with 4 km on the odometer, and most of the salt was off the road by then.
True on the Outback – here in the big city I passed 4 area dealers to buy mine 75 miles away in a small town….their price was the best, with the bonus being it was a family owned dealership.
Overall whether sales or service, Subaru usually impresses me with their customer service…
We’ve had both good and bad experiences buying a car from the unique perspective of a same-sex couple. One salesman, when he figured out we were a couple, turned cold and hostile and basically refused to discuss much of anything with us. We left, and I called the manager and laid it out how we had been treated rudely with great disrespect and why. I also added that we were a cash sale for an expensive luxury car, and that he’d lost a sale due to the apparent bigotry of his sales person. The manager turned quite concerned, and asked us what he could do to get us back to the dealership. I replied “Nothing” and left it at that.
On the other hand, our last car purchase at a luxury dealership in Seattle was quite different. The sales guy treated us with great respect, asked both of us about our likes and dislikes, and offered to put the purchase in both names “since you’re buying as a couple.” Of course, the fact that he knew we’d be writing a $100,000 check for the car may have sweetened the deal for him.
Tourist and Diplomat Sales. See price. Order *exactly* what you want. Send check. Get car.
In 1986 I went to a big local Ford dealer to look at a Mustang. That year the AM/FM cassette player was standard equipment with the option package I wanted. When I found the car I liked the window sticker said that a “Premium” sound system had been substituted in over the OE one for $249. I looked at it and it was a Sparkomatic that was sold at the time at K-Mart for around $50. Never went back.
Sparkomatic!! Wow, haven’t heard that name for 30 or 40 years. Can’t believe a dealer would swap one into a new car. My ’86 Ford Ranger had a pretty decent OEM stereo, for the time.
I go in knowing I’ll get ripped off, hand over my dough, new car.
Over.
It’s the venom flowing through the veins afterwards that kills, not the bite itself, so I don’t fret over it. It’s their turf after all and they do this day in and day out — no competition.
The trick is to keep your blood sugar up so you aren’t lulled into more financial damage as you are in that booth for hours and hours.
Bonus: they handle the mess of taking care of the old car.
Just bought a Hyundai this past spring. Most of the deal took place over email. Pretty smooth. Guy was young – it may have been his first sale. I felt like we both did OK on the deal. He also got me a free spare tire when I incredulously called him two days later with a flat tire that demonstrated to me that Hyundai doesn’t include spare tires with their new cars, but only sealant/inflation kits.
In this same shopping experience I had the opposite experience trying to test drive a Chevy. The salesman (also new to the career, but older than me) kept me from driving the car that I went there to see and insisted that I test drive a larger SUV-type that was the exact opposite of what I was there to try.
I once bought two used vehicles in one month from what was then Nichols Pontiac-Buick-GMC in Enterprise, Alabama. I was happy with the first purchase, and then they took in a Grand Marquis I couldn’t pass up. Its purchase was also a good experience.
I remember one really good experience. It was in 2015, I hadn’t had my driver’s license so my sister used my car while we were looking for a replacement. (Long story short, our aging and decrepit 05 Equinox which was hers finally got sent to the big junkyard in the sky) She was looking for a CUV or SUV, and so we went to the car dealership district near our house and brought me along because I was the resident “car guy” of the house. At the time, she was also suffering from a strange neurological problem that meant her legs didn’t work and she needed either a wheelchair or crutches to get around, so another requirement was it had to fit a wheelchair. Our last stop at the day was at a Buick/GMC/Cadillac dealership, and as we were looking, one of the salesman dropped by and asked us questions and treated us politely. Normally, a salesman would’ve taken a look at two High-school/college aged kids who were just looking by themselves and not even bothered, just because of the stereotypes at play. But, this guy, who I distinctly remember because he told us he was from the Republic of Georgia if I remember correctly, he had a very distinct Slavic accent to him. He was very respectful, he let us take a tour of the GMC Terrain that my sister was interested in, he even let us go for a test drive in it. I was very impressed that he was willing to do all of this for two kids who clearly were just looking for replacements and clearly weren’t interested in buying. I know there’s a lot of negative stereotypes about car salesman, how they only care about people who are interested in buying and everyone is nonexistent (Believe me, we came across some of them too, which is why the Mazda dealership in that area is not getting attention from either of us) But, I think a good salesperson realizes that you have to treat every customer with respect, even if they may not be ready to purchase, because that means they’ll consider the dealership in the future and they will be willing to make a sale with them.
Also for the people who act rude to salespeople, I think that’s unfair as well. Because while their might be some salespeople who fit the “Shady guy willing to bend you over” persona, it’s nowhere near as common as you think. I never am willing to treat a salesperson poorly unless they treat me (not overtly, subtly as well), like I’m some bug they scraped off their shoe. Speaking from a restaurant experience, salespeople are like wait staff. At the end of the day, the vast majority want to help you and make sure your experience is pleasant, otherwise, that means one customer who’s going to tell everyone how awful it was, and that’s several sales that you can kiss goodbye too. Much like how it’s not fair to yell at the waiters or bussers, or hosts for problems with the kitchen or the managerial staff or the owner, it’s not fair to treat salespeople unfairly for problems with the managerial staff at the dealership. They’re middle men, and I never blame the middle man for problems the other people cause. Now, much like how there’s apathetic and arrogant waiters who could care less about genuine concerns with the food or how long its taking, there are salespeople at dealerships that only care about the bottom line and only care how much you are willing to depart with cash from your wallet. But much like everything else, they are the exception and not the norm.
So yeah, it’s all about give and take. As for my dealership experiences, if I had the cash for a new car, or even a used car, I would definitely take a trip to my local GMC/Buick/Cadillac dealership because of how well me and my sister were treated there.
Buying a 2000 Honda Odyssey was, well, an odyssey. That was when the Odyssey was the hot new minivan and demand far exceeded supply. Most of the Honda dealers we contacted here in Southern California said that we would need to place a big down payment up front, wait for a car, and if we didn’t want the car (no choice on color or features), we would give up the down payment. Oh, and they would mark up the van anywhere from $6k to $10k. Tough if you didn’t like it. Test drive? Are you kidding?
Tipton Honda in El Cajon was the only honest player in the whole deal. They said they would put us on a list, and call us when our name was up. We could take the van, or wait for the next one, or the one after that, until we got what we wanted. MSRP with no markups. No upsells when we bought.
Later, when the transmission blew up (they all did that) and we were out of warranty, they got us an exchange rebuild for either the part, or the labor (can’t remember which), so basically half price. It went another 100k+ miles on that rebuild.
I’m quite surprised to see a rhetorical question I asked two days ago has become the root of such an active discussion. Thank you, Paul N for an excellent article on a very interesting subject.
I’ve bought about 50 vehicles so far. I’ve found commercial and fleet purchases to be good experiences and retail sales for personal vehicles mostly to be catastrophically poor.
Commercial sales is remarkably free of the multitude of sleazy tactics and poor attitudes that plague retail sales.
The businessman in me finds it so frustrating to see retail auto sales handled so poorly. From reading this thread, their failure rate is, perhaps 50%, where not only is there no sale, but the customer walks away with a negative impression and an unpleasant experience. This suggests the conventional auto sales business model is an abject failure. How long would Target or Whole Foods last if 50% of their customers walked away with similar poor experiences?
American (and Canadian) business tends to operate successful retail businesses well, because they have a customer – service oriented approach. Customer loyalty and a positive impression mean something.
The traditional auto sales model cares little for such impressions. The commission system means the customer is little more than a wallet, to be opened and emptied through psychological manipulation. Most commercial truck buyers would not tolerate such tactics.
I used to work for a Pontiac/Buick dealer. I work in the contracting field now, but many of my staff used to work in retail auto sales. The systemic approaches I have seen used widely to get as much money as possible for a vehicle is offensive to me as a businessman, and infuriating as a consumer.
And when I’ve tried to buy cars, even when I know what they’re going to do, I can’t get them to stop. They still try the same tricks on me, even when I TELL then to stop because I KNOW what they’re doing and explain WHY it won’t work on me. I’ve even gotten sheepish grins from them when I correctly identify the approaches they are doing and critique them. “You know, you’re “Standing Room Only” thing isn’t working because I just counted 53 Chargers sitting on your back lot just now””
I still buy commercial vehicles through dealers but don’t do so for my personal cars anymore simply because I cannot get a fair shake. I buy used cars through private sales. For me, its much better.
” I’ve even gotten sheepish grins from them”
You mean like this?
One of my all-time favorite movies.
Never. Except the one time in 1988 I traded in my ’81 Skylark with a shot Iron Duke for a used Jetta at an Acura dealer. Revenge. Saw it out back a couple weeks later with engine out, hee hee!
Yes. Longo Lexus in 1999, I found a certified 1997 lx450 (Landcruiser) on their lot with 44,000 miles but looked and smelled brand new. I told the salesman I didn’t want to play any games, just to give me their best price and I was just going to say yes or no. He gave me a reasonable price, I said yes, was out of there with the truck in an hour ( I had my own financing.) Then at the end of 2003 when the RX400H was announced, I put myself on the waiting list. 18 months later, when the first ones started rolling off the ships and most of the other dealers were marking them up, I got mine at sticker and again, was out of there in an hour.
We’ve serviced the RX at Longo for most of its life–we still have it– and were hoping to give it to the kids when they start driving.
i dont get that US dealers get away with charging a ” Mark Up” on car invoice prices. In the UK dealers start at the RSP and discount. Mark up is for rich sort that want to jump waiting lists for the latest super cars.
I think you’re mixing up terms. “Invoice” is what the dealer paid for it. “MSRP” is the manufacturer’s recommended sales price”. The difference between the two is what is negotiable.
A mark up above MSRP is strictly a matter of supply and demand, and usually only doable when demand substantially exceeds supply. Some dealers won’t do mark-ups; others will. There’s no regulation of what the actual selling price of a vehicle will be; that’s the whole point.
Buy a car that’s not in demand, and you may well get a huge discount; buy one that is in great demand and one may have to pay a markup unless one shops around.
With the internet, mark ups are probably becoming rarer and rarer. In fact, hardly anyone pays MSRP anymore.
I had the best car buying experience of my life about a year ago at Roe Motors in Grants Pass, OR. Saw a vehicle on line, called and got a full description and CARFAX. Placed a deposit, flew to Oregon where the sales person (Aramis Taylor) met me at the airport, drove me to the dealership, and completed the whole transaction in a few minutes. Vehicle had been completely serviced, including good quality new tires, and I drove back to California that day. I would go there again in a heartbeat.
I personally have only dealt with two dealers. The 80 Civic my father had a leasing connection so that doesn’t cunt. My 86 626 was next up and I knew exactly what I wanted. Didn’t need a test drive just buy the car. First dealer I happened by in San Jose wanted 11K for a car that I knew should be $9600. His comment was that if a dealer wanted to prostitute himself that that was his choice. I still remember that description.
The next Mazda sealer I walked into I told what I wanted, what I would pay and showed my map of where all the Mazda dealers were and they were numbered. He was closest and so #1 but I would move on. It was no nonsense, he brought out exactly what I wanted, I declined a drive, signed the papers and paid what I wanted.
Next up my 2004 Ford Focus. The salesman was a young kid who I also told what I wanted. There were his attempts to steer me to another Focus but I said no thanks. There was also a $2500 rebate. Finally he gave in and I had to wait an hour as the car and color I wanted had to be driven over from Berkeley to Walnut Creek.
That was my last attempt although my last purchase four weeks ago, an extremely low mileage 2004 LeSabre, was from my father. That was a very straight forward buy. I even gave him cash, which surprised him, as he said check would have been fine.
Our last new vehicle, a Toyota Sienna, was purchased through a Costco program. We were given a name and number to call, told the salesman exactly what we wanted and were told it would be a couple of weeks before the next shipment would come in with something very similar to what we requested. We were also given a purchase price which was very reasonable. One week later we got a call saying our van had arrived. We had given nothing in the way of a down payment or earnest money by the way. We drove to Tucson and met with the salesman who did nothing but program and internet sales. I have to say, I’m surprised the guy didn’t throw his back out while bending over backwards to make sure we were happy. At one point I told him the sale has been made, relax and get the paperwork. Thirty minutes later we drove off the lot with our new van. And the price was almost exactly what we were quoted. I just wish all Dealerships were this accommodating.
I’ll start by saying I grew up with car dealers being family friends. My dad knew the Volpato brothers (Angelo and Medardo) before they had a dealership. They became the Chrysler Plymouth dealership (M Volpato, Inc.) in the 1920’s. My dad often made the road trip to San Francisco to pick up new vehicles with the brothers, he enjoyed driving them back. Medardo was killed while the sheriff was taking a demonstration drive in 1933, rolling the car. The dealership became A Volpato Inc. One of dads cars in 1933 was a 1931 Imperial LeBaron dual cowl phaeton he kept until 1937, when he bought 2 1937 Plymouth Coupes, one for town, the other for the highway. Within a short time, hopped up Chrysler engines were under the Plymouths hoods. Those served through the war years. Our house/property was here over a hundred years, the surrounding area was orchard. The Volpatos built and moved in just down the street. (after more houses came between, the third house down). Dad was also friends with the Gearharts, the DeSoto-Plymouth dealer, they also moved in down the street. My sister was born in 1938, Memorial day, (Dad was born at midnight, New Year’s eve) Dad became a foreman for Diamond Match in the 30’s, In 1948 he learned mom was pregnant again, (I would have had an older brother, but it was a stillbirth) He waited until I was actually born (June 14, 1948, Flag day) to buy a new ’48 Plymouth DeLuxe sedan for the growing family, from Volpato’s. In 1950 he decided to buy a new New Yorker sedan. Going to Volpato’s on a Sunday, none of the Volpato family were at the dealership. Every sales person (and most others at the dealership) were family members and relatives, except the young man that day. Dad went to the dealership i n casual clothes, he knew everyone. He wanted to look at the blue New Yorker in the show room. The young man refused, saying he might be interested in an older Lincoln sedan from the used car lot, since dad obviously could not afford the new car. In fact Dad had $5000 in cash in his pocket to buy with. After being insulted by the salesman, dad got in the Plymouth and drove the two blocks to the DeSoto dealer. Mr. Gearhart was not there, but dad knew Mr. Wong (and everyone else there) and a short time later had a blue top line DeSoto sedan, with a lit Hernando DeSoto on the hood. Dad wasn’t satisfied with the 6 in the DeSoto, and before long the car was equipped with an entire 8 cylinder New Yorker drive train. (and people wonder why I started modifying my cars) Dad still had one of the ’37 Plymouths, kept as a hunting car. During the time the DeSoto was being modified, Angelo let dad drive a ’49 Cosmopolitan fastback sedan from the lot. When he learned dad had tried to buy the Chrysler and was turned away, he fired the salesman and when dad told him he would like to equip the DeSoto as a New Yorker, Angelo gave dad a very good deal on the transformation. It wasn’t just the loss of the sale to Dad, Ours was a strong Mopar family, a large one. After Dad bought the DeSoto, eight aunts and uncles bought DeSotos from Gerhart instead of Chryslers and Plymouths from Volpatos, and they weren’t going to have Volpatos service them either. I had good memories of the ’50 DeSoto, on vacation cruising at close to 100 mph in the slightly breathed on strait eight. Dad also bought a Studebaker pickup in 1953, and built a new garage for them. Dad test drove 1954, and ’55 DeSotos and Chryslers when the Forward Look started sweeping the country. When Gerhart let dad see what the ’56 looked like, dad loved it, and told Gerhart, “That’s beautiful, this is the year I’ll be buying if it drives as good as it looks.” Gerhart told dad ” I guarantee it will drive good, hell, I’ll have it built just for you.” But dad didn’t hear that, he was looking at the ’56 Chrysler product photos. Dad drew the money out of the bank on Friday. Saturday morning, Mom, dad and I went to Volpato’s, to look at Imperials. two in the showroom, A black coupe, and a gorgeous 4 door hardtop in pale blue, with everything. There were a couple of New Yorkers, and a couple of Plymouths there also. (BTW< it was now A Volpato Inc., Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial) Mom and I knew all the people at both dealerships, and the young guy that came into the showroom wasn't familiar. Dad and I were in Levi's and sport shirts, mom was in a nice sundress. Apparently we looked like hillbillies to the guy, dad wanted to drive an Imperial. The guy flatly refused, suggested maybe a Plymouth Plaza. Dad loved the Imperial, but was pissed, he told the guy to call Angelo, he refused, then dad told the guy he was going to Gearharts to buy a DeSoto. The ass said, "Go ahead" Dad pulled $7000 out of his pocket and counted it, as the young guys mouth hung open, He started to stammer something, but dad told him "Too late" Minutes later we were at Gerharts. There was also a young unknown there on duty, but he welcomed us, offered soft drinks, Dad told him he was going to buy a car, asked if Gerhart was there. This guy asked if we could wait a short time while looking at cars, he would call Mr. Gerhart. He had been home, but minutes later, he pulled in driving a new Fireflite convertible. In the showroom, were a burgandy and black Fireflite convertible with white top, a red and white Fireflite Sportsman 2 door, and a pink and white Firedome 4 door hardtop. I wanted the convertible, mom wanted the red hardtop, and dad was looking at the 4 door, but wanted Fireflite, and a sedan, not a hardtop. I was looking at the huge model car display case with models of Fireflite sedans and Belvedere sedans in most colors available. Mr Gerhart came in "Bob (dads name), you're here too soon, your car hasn'r been cleaned up yet." "My car?",Gerhart reminded dad about their conversation. As matter of fact, it had not been unloaded from the carrier yet. By then the sun was setting, outside lights kicked on as Gerhart led us to the parked car carrier, now in deep shadow. The black and white Fireflite sedan sat on the carrier, minus wheelcovers, and dusty looking. Dad wanted to do the deal. Gerhart hesitated and said "Whatever you want , Bob." Dad also mentioned wanting to drive it home. Gerhart told the salesman to call the carrier driver. He unloaded the car as he deal was finished. Mr. Gearhart took me over to the model display. "Go ahead and pick whatever Fireflite model you want, what the heck, pick a Plymouth model as well. I was seven. There were no black and white, I picked the white with pink Fireflite, and pink with white Plymouth sedan 1/25th scale models from JoHan. When dad opened the driver's door after completing the deal did a sharp intake of breath and a soft "Whoe!" inside was a black and white dash and steering wheel, but 5 shades of pink to mauve covered the rest of it. The driver had checked fluid levels, tire pressure, and enough fuel, we were to bring it back the next day for detail. On starting, there was a deep rumble from the dual exhaust, the engine had a cam, I could tell that at seven. It was a spaceship compared to the '50. Dad drove the few miles home, got out and opened the garage doors, which still had not had lights installed. He slowly pulled in, mom started screaming something at him, he stopped with only inches from being in the garage. The '56 is wider than the '50. Dad had popped every bit of the side trim from the passenger side. There wasn't a scratch on the paint, just the trim laying there. I knew we would never speak of this as long as dad lived. Next day when dad opened the garage another sharp intake of air. I looked around the corner into the garage. The DeSoto was not black and white, but Iredescent Charcoal gray and shell pink, My seven year old mind thought, "Cool" At that second, dad's brother Jim drove up in his DeSoto club coupe, he looked in the garage and said"God, Bob, that's a stunning color combination." The world was right again, and dad was proud of the Fireflite the rest of his life. At Gerharts, Gerhart was horrified when we pulled in without passenger side trim, he started apologizing to dad, dad took him aside and talked, Gerhart said the car had not been officially checked in. we waited as it was detailed, and wheelcovers and…er side trim was put on. It looked perfect It also started an avalanche of family car sales, 26 Plymouths, Dodges, DeSotos, Chryslers and Imperials joined the family.The last vehicle bought by dad was a new '59 International pickup in tuquoise and white.
Out of all the cars that passed through my own hands, I only had two new ones, and both were different experiences. In 1965 among my cars was a 1955 Austin-Healey 100 M. I'd had it 4 years and loved it. As I was driving, a '65 Dodge Polara patrol car turned on his red light behind me. I thought WHAT NOW, I pulled off the road on the gravel and blowing leaves shoulder, hitting the brakes hard, the Healey simply stopped. Glancing in the mirror was OH SHIT!!!! The big Polara was inches back, and still doing 40 mph, sliding on the slick surface. DUCK!!! I slid low in the bucket seat in time to hear the impact and see the Dodge chassis grinding over the top of the Healey. I got the door open and rolled out on the ground. The Dodge looked unhurt, the Healey was toast, mangled, I yelled NOOOOOOOO! as I saw it. The cop looked down at me and said "Damn" They replaced my '55 with a brand new '65 Healey 3000 with a back seat, roll up windows and a gorgeous silver blue paint job (with chrome wires and whitewalls. I hated it! The '55 was 25 mph faster, handled better, and was ME!. I slowly was getting used to the '65, everyone else loved it. Then I came out of Raley's one day. Sitting on top of the '65 was a 1958 Buick Century Riviera 4 door in Warwick blue with wide whitewalls, and immaculate with zero damage. Once again the Healey was toast. I know the particulars of the Buick because ten years later , I owned it with 13 other '58 Buicks. My insurance agent asked "Do you really want another one of those things?" The Healey was replaced with a mint '56 light aqua Continental Mark II with A/C, and a '57 Lincoln Premiere coupe in Taos turquoise and ivy green roof, near new with 35000 miles and A/C. I thought, Let see them run over that! So many cars have a/C here because summers are over 115 degrees.
The second new car I didn't expect. a close friend in the military had a problem, his wife died in an accident and he had twin boys that needed someone to take care of them, no relatives or others could be found. I was 18, but did it and it worked ok, they were good kids for 3 years. When he got out of the military he thanked me for taking care of them and wanted to pay me for it. he had inherited family money. He said he could have hired someone to watch them, but they knew me . I wouldn't let him pay because as far as I was concerned we were family. He treated me and the kids to Disneyland and every other attraction around LA, when we got back home there was a new '66 Cadillac deVille convertible, in light blue with white interior and top, and every accessory waiting for me. We had talked about liking the style, and accessories. He bought it for me. I did drive it some, but by then I had my Electra, eventually I gave it back and he drove it for years.
My experiences with local dealers was different from most people. I knew all the dealers here and in surrounding cities because I detailed or repaired cars for them. In those days they didn't want cars over five years old on the lot. All had so called "south 40" sections where they parked unwanted cars. I bought at least 5 cars per week (and that from one dealer) the most bought in a week was around 38 cars. I was in hog heaven. These were mostly less than 10 years old, top line cars, all priced between $15 and $50 dollars because they did not want them. A few very low miles excellent cars could go as high as $150. Many were faded and dirty, but I tried to beautify America with suddenly new looking cars on the road again. There were a few dealers I stayed away from because they were such asses to do business with. Some of the dealers were so good it was near unbelievable. The used car manager at Volpato's was a minister as well as car salesman, totally honest. He was married to one of the Volpato sister's. The whole family were great. One friend (I was 24 he was in his 70's, but very interesting , he worked in the arts, painting, sculpting, things I pursued also. He was not in great health and his '69 Chevelle died, he had very little money and needed wheels. I took him to Volpato's and told them the situation, asking which cheap car was known to be best for his needs. They had the normal cheap cars like I bought, I just wanted to make sure he got the best possible. Angie (one of the sons) said "Lets move him up to something nice." There was a 2 year old 75 Dodge Royal Monaco Brougham, very fully loaded, in nice shape. priced around $4500. He told them his absolute limit was $1100. Angie said"how about $600 for it." He bought it and drove it until his passing ten years later, I kept it detailed. It wasn't good business from a financial standpoint, but I had four generations of customers at my shop, and as the older ones went to fixed income, I and my shop kept detailing their cars once a year at no charge. I got a fair amount of cookies and baked goods as appreciation, and I appreciated those. I also got cars in appreciation. Most were cars that a father or grandfather had, but undriven for quite awhile, a '51 Kaiser Deluxe sedan, a '68 Monaco 500 coupe, a 78 Mark V coupe, cars that were in their way, but welcome to me. My '77 New Yorker Brougham was free with a bad trans. I traded with a transmission shop for years and it had a new trans the day after I got it. It was fully loaded with a 440 Interceptor engine. I drove it 18 years and 210,000 miles in comfort and amazingly good mileage since the trans shop put an AOverdrive trans in it. Most all detailed near new. I also have given away my own cars when someone needed it, and some I collected to restore that I realize I wont be able to. This last year I gave away a '58 Buick Caballero wagon, and a 1959 DeSoto Diplomat Adventurer convertible, 1 of 8 ever built, also gave away a '57 Diplomat convertible a few years back. they have a better chance of living and being restored. My son, Nathan has inherited the gene for car collecting, he's only 20 (just) and has had a 95 Caprice Detectives car, loaded with everything and a strong LT1 engine, in sapphire blue, a Mark VIII, perfect condition the same color, a Celica GT in black, a '67 Imperial crown Coupe in pale yellow with black roof band Owned for 20 years by mrs Volpato. a '53 Dodge pickup he restored, and currently a 2003 Mustang convert, fully equipped in bright yellow with white top, and a Accura Integra in silver smoke. Plus he will inherit most of my cars. A few more we need to restore before I kick off Volpato's is gone now, Angie was about 8 years my senior, but we were close friends, He collected Imperials from all years and had a rare Airflow Limousine. His wife was always pushing him to make more money. One day he was in Sacramento for a show and saw his high school sweetheart and divorced #1 and married and finally found complete happiness with the sweetheart for 31 years before his passing last year. The Chrysler dealer now is part of a huge multi make dealer that barely bothers with domestic cars. Miller Buick Olds was another great dealer and the family personal friends, they are gone now and Buick is at the same place Chrysler is.
I'm including pics of my '58 Century that ran over my '65 Healey before I had it. The '66 Century was my great uncle's ca fro when I had a dozen '55's
My property before I was born in 1938 with orchards around, notice they’re Chrysler products
Too bad I don’t know what you wrote as it was visually impossible to read.
Ditto. Without lots of paragraph breaks, reading continuous text on this format is essentially impossible.
Kaiser given to me, had 45 years of oxydation, detailed.
Free New Yorker during years of driving
$15 Plymouth convertible from dealer lot turning new again
after detailing
That’s a stunningly good looking rag top .
-Nate
1958 Cadillac I had that I need to put in 57-58 Cadillac section
@LRF: Wow! What a detailed write-up and a lifetime of cars/experiences! I read and enjoyed every line. You have some beautiful cars! In general, (IMO) customer service, and doing the “right” thing instead of the “$” thing are sadly appearing to fade away. I feel badly for the young people today who’ve never experienced true customer service, and and who will probably never experience it.
In early 1999, the lease of my 95 VW GTI VR6 was about to expire and VW had just announced the new mk IV GTI GLX. The local dealer on Long Island which we had just leased a new 99 mk IV Jetta for my then wife claimed that he didn’t know if the GTI was coming or not and when I told him that VW announced it on their website he stated ‘you can’t believe everything on the website’.
So I went about searching the internet and came across a dealer in Rhode Island that specialized in internet sales. I contacted them and the salesman told me that his first GT GLX would be coming later this week and would I want to get it. I told him that I was wary of this since I would be turning in my current GTI and he was making a deal sight unseen (this was my first lease and I was concerned that they would ‘find’ things wrong when I turned the car in). He assured me that it wasn’t the case and unless I wasn’t disclosing something major that I knew I was hiding, there would be nothing to worry about. So we negotiated a deal and went up to Rhode Island
Once I got there, the salesman said ‘I hope you don’t mind but since this was our first GTI we put it in the showroom’ and there it was. Not only was he true to his word about upholding the lease turn in, but he actually bought the old GTI since it was under mileage and I netted like $1,000 from that transaction. And there was NOTHING cooler than driving the new GTI out of the showroom.
Wait…there’s still more. So like two years later, my then wife wants to turn in her Jetta for a Passat so I again call this dealer in Rhode Island, negotiate a price and go up there. When we get there, I see this mk III GTI VR6 sitting outside the service area that looked like my old one that I had traded in. I looked closer and the ‘unique’ badging that the car had (side GTI badges on the side trim, red badges on the back where most GTIs had silver ones, on BBS center caps rather than VW ones) and yeah, this was definitely my old GTI! As it turns out, the service manager bought it after I had traded it in….the dealer actually posted a photo of me and my old GTI and posted on their website for a few years
Way back in ’95 I special ordered my very first new vehicle, a ’95 Ram 1500 Sport pickup. The dealership I ordered it from, Strongsville Dodge, was an absolute dream to deal with. No BS, no pressure, just a great experience.
I had a great experience recently buying from Carvana. Very helpful, easy setting up financing, delivery, etc. Would HIGHLY recommend.
Time-frame flexibility is key. If one is in no hurry to buy (able to wait 6 months, etc), it’s usually not hard to get a good deal, at least KBB/Edmunds competitive pricing or better.
The last time I bought a vehicle without pre-arrangement (either via 1-800 number or Internet/e-mail) was in 1989. All subsequent purchases (4 so far) were pre-arranged and hassle-free, with the cars delivered having single-digit odometer readings.
Varied experiences here. I have a used car dealer I have used for years. I even rented a house from him and his dad. I guess we have become friends over the years. If he has a car I want to check out, I call or go over and they write it out for me for a few days – usually over a weekend so I can drive the crap out of it and look under seats etc. Then we haggle a bit and sign the papers.
Fun: my buddy above didn’t have a CUV in my range so found one on internet. Used. Hour and a half away. Called and got a salesman that sounded like the stereotype. We agreed on a time the following Saturday morning, but I was told him I did not have to have a car and I meant it. Drove down and took the car out for a drive – had a fun time with the young man. Got back and went to the office. I told him we would NOT strike a deal til we were both cussing and mad. That way I would feel like we both gave a little. 2 hours later, we had a deal. A couple trips to the sales manager. I lowballed him and made him take it. And back and forth til we hit a number we both could live with. A fun experience til this point, but it was uncomfortable to my wife. She thought it was too stressful.
Then the Finance guy who was a real jerk didn’t want to get to our payment numbers. So we walked out and were in the car ready to leave – out comes the sales managerr and sales guy. Asked for 5 more minutes. So they did finally push it through. First time I ever felt like I got the deal I really wanted. even dealing with the first guy – those are always alright deals but he always takes care of me.
I have made signs for a bunch of independent dealers so they always treated me with respect, even if we didn’t make a deal on cars.
And the last deal – wife’s new Tucson. Found a deal on the net. Emailed the guy, got some replies and we went back and forth. Then he called and we talked some more aboout wife’s trade, etc. Struck a tentative deal. Went down after work. 6 pm. They tried to change it around some, but I made him stick to his original deal. I had a copy of his deal in the email. The sales manager was my original contact and he handed me off to a nice young guy. Not so stereotypical – was very respectful and treated us like people. Didn’t try to jerk us around so much.
Other deals over the years have been mostly poor. I tell the sales guys up front that I hate buying a car and that I drove on to the lot and can just as easily drive off the lot. It’s just a car and not the only car in the world to me. And that’s how I feel anymore. IF I miss the one I’m looking at now, there will be another next week.
For a laugh, google :
Johnson Automotive group, Grady the Badger
Some very entertaining television commercials that are apropos.
I have never had a HORRENDOUS experience at a dealership.
But I have very seldom bought a car from a dealership, either.
The 2008 HHR that I bought in May of this year was purchased from the local Chevrolet dealer here in Waterford, Michigan. The entire transaction was handled professionally and smoothly. I would consider purchasing a vehicle from them again.
For the most part I have had good dealership experiences, but a few not so good ones stand out. I had a sales manager hold on to my supposed trade-in keys while he talked it down to me. I walked out. I decided once that I wanted to find a dark green or black one year old Mustang V6 coupe. The salesman at the new car dealership insisted on trying to sell me a yellow GT convertible. To top it off, they test drove my 4 year old Dakota pickup that I was thinking about trading in. They must have been shopping it to used car dealers because they were gone for 20 minutes. They then offered me $1200.00 for it as it was high mileage. They aggravated me further because of their running it around town, I then had to put gas in it to drive the 50 miles home. Needless to say, I never went back.
I once shopped for a new company car for my wife with a dealer in another city. I found a car and told the sales manager that her company had a deal with GM for a discount on new cars. The arrogant ass of a sales manager said ” I will decide what they pay.” I went home and took her to the local dealer where she found the perfect car and no hassles about any discount. She also told her boss about my experience with the first dealer. Her company ended up buying 9 more cars from our local dealer. We later bought two cars from them ourselves.
After having a good dealership experience with my 2003 Mustang I ordered my 2009 Mustang in April 2008 as a 2008 model at the same dealer in Indianapolis which is 100 miles from where I live. A couple of weeks later, according to the dealer they shut down production for model changeover. Someone must have lost the order because my car didn’t come in until August. The sales manager said ” I will do anything to make you happy” while I was waiting all summer for my car. When we went in to take delivery and after we paid cash with no trade in, I asked for a free Mustang hat. He told me that he couldn’t do that! I will not be buying another car there. Since then I have become friends with the current owner of our local dealer.
When I order a new vehicle I already know exactly what I want and have encountered many salesmen who didn’t know their product very well. When I ordered my ’79 Malibu I had to educate several salesmen at different dealerships while shopping for a deal. With the exception of one guy, none of them knew you could get a factory four speed transmission even though the shifter is clearly shown in the brochure.
Oddly, my best new car buying experiences were at mega dealerships and the worst at the smaller ones. I bought two trucks from Longo Toyota and a T-bird for my dad at Galpin Ford, both in the Los Angeles market. F&I folks at these places are true professionals that dont waste your time or theirs. They work on volume rather than trying to extract the maximum profit from each sale.
So… I’ve been reading the comments here for days hoping that anyone would mention something near me.
I’m in the Chicagoland area and have had nothing but terrible experiences with dealerships all over town.
The Larry Roesch (Ford and Chevrolet) family of dealerships were terrible. Both vehicles purchased here had numerous problems fresh out of the showroom and warranty work was like pulling fingernails. Salespeople had zero knowledge of the product.
Sunrise Chevrolet – See above.
Elmhurst Toyota – None of the issues above but severely overpriced and employ a good amount of bait & switch tactics.
Continental Motors in Countryside was an awful experience as well.
I’m in the market for a new sedan and a new pickup in the next 6 months. I keep putting it off because driving my current vehicles > dealing with another scummy dealership.
Are there no good dealerships in the Chicago area?
I went to Schaumburg [IL] Toyota to see numbers on a 2016 Camry SE, and didn’t get high pressure tactics, like “hide the key” or “what can we do to get you to buy now?”. They had an internet price and stuck to it, and laid out #’s. Said I have to think about it and gave me their biz cards.
I’d recommend them and may get that car, but have to think more, 😉
I was out of town but will add my two cents. My last 2 new car buys went very smoothly. The 07 Fit (Bob Rohrman Honda on Indy’s south side) was a cash purchase and I got no pressure. It was a car in extremely short supply that involved a 4+ month wait on an order and there were no “dealer add-ons” to gouge more money out of me. They added some kind of body panel registration stickers (an aftermarket theft deterrent system) but the salesman immediately agreed that we had not agreed to that and did not charge us. I don’t even remember meeting an F&I guy.
The 12 Sedona (Butler Kia on Keystone Avenue before they moved to Fishers) was also relatively easy dealing with transparent pricing, other than an issue of getting our car from much farther away than we had been led to believe, adding maybe 300 miles to the “new” car after my Mrs. had made clear that she did not want a new car with a few hundred miles on it. They knocked off some more money and everything was good. The F&I was there but easy as we opted out of all the extras.
My late model used 94 Club Wagon (Jerry Alderman Ford Indianapolis) and the 85 GTI (Giganti VW) were much more typical “car dealer” transactions. But those deals were 20 and 30 years ago and at dealers no longer in business.