In my last COAL, I detailed the painful process of selling my SE-R back in 2024 because I’d promised my Sonic daily driver to my son if he graduated high school with honors, which he did. The next phase of the plan was to buy a car that I would ultimately give to my daughter when she received her license the following year. I didn’t have room for five cars and needed the money from the sale of the SE-R to buy the new daily driver.
My goal was to keep the cost in the barely five figures range, and Kia was heavily discounting the Forte to make room for the K4. So, my wife and I went to look on my birthday since we both had the day off (my kind of birthday). Our local Kia dealer had a blue LXS, which is near the bottom end of the model lineup but had all the equipment we’d need. We took a long test drive and were pleasantly surprised by accoutrements, performance and ride. We’d planned to take our daughter back when the time was right. However, to be nice, we went back to the salesman’s desk after the test drive. He told us he was going to his manager to get us the best deal he could to get us to buy that day. I was curious so I played along.
I was amused by what he came back with. First, the price of the car was the same price listed on their website, so you can already tell the lengths that he went to. As he was going through the price breakdown, he pointed out that the $289 for VIN etching was required by law in Connecticut so it had to be included. Now, I don’t know if there are any former or current car salesman in our readership, but if you had what appeared to be a knowledgeable person in front of you, would you try to pull a stunt like this? The Forte was still high on the list, but we weren’t going to buy it from that guy.
As we were heading to Florida for Spring Break shortly afterwards, I decided to see if better deals could be had down there. They could, to the tune of several thousand dollars in some cases. My plan, if everything worked out, was to buy the car and leave it at my mother’s house until I could fly back and drive it home. I lined up a mechanic near where we were staying for the pre-purchase inspection (PPI), and the three of us drove down to Miami – where the best deals were found – while my son stayed back at the house to work on the research paper he failed to finish before we left.
I should explain that by now we’d moved up from barely five figures into 3-year, off-lease CPO territory. My wife does not like used cars, as at the time we were 1 for 3 in the used-car lottery (1 good one, 2 lemons). She had no problem buying a new car for our soon-to-be-16-year-old daughter. I, on the other hand, had a big problem with it, with the Forte being the exception.
Our first stop was a Mazda dealer on Calle Ocho that had a pretty blue CPO 2021 Mazda3 Select with about 35,000 miles listed for $16,750. We took a short test drive around the block just to make sure there was nothing glaringly wrong with the car. Before taking a more in-depth test drive or entering any negotiations, we did want to show our daughter the Forte, which was listed for about $1,000 less than back home.
We battled the traffic over to the Miami Lakes Auto Mall, which appeared to have every automotive brand under its umbrella. We found the dirty little Kia showroom, which was under renovation at the time, and asked to see one of the blue Forte LXSs they had listed. The salesman said he’d be right back and to wait outside for him. He pulled up in an SUV then drove us to an enormous parking garage, where, if I recall, the Forte was up on the fifth floor. The poor, dust-covered thing looked like it had been sitting there for a year. My daughter took one look at it and just said, “No.”
As expected, the salesman wouldn’t let us leave without talking to the sales manager. The guy asked what the problem was and then offered the K5 as an alternative, but it was outside of our size and price range. For some strange reason, he thought that bullying might save the sale and started lecturing my daughter along the lines of, “This isn’t about what you want.” My 5’10” daughter was fuming while I just smiled and enjoyed the show. Not that he was wrong, but I had my reasons for letting her have this much control over the process, which I’ll explain in the next installment.
Back on Calle Ocho, we asked for a second, longer test drive. The salesman insisted that he needed to go along on this test drive, which is something I usually fight, but under the circumstances, went along with this time. My wife kept him engaged in conversation in the back seat while my daughter and I shook out the Mazda3. Aside from a small dash rattle, we both loved the car. She had already picked out a name by the time we got back to the dealer.
The salesman brought us to his manager, and I named my price. He said that was nowhere near what he’d accept for the car. It turned out that I’d missed somewhere in the small print that the “Certified Pre-Owned” designation was a mandatory $2,000 option. That explains the price differential. We did like the car, and he promised to fix the dash rattle and a few other small imperfections. I asked him his best out-the-door price, and he came back with $20,500, which was still quite a bit less than what I was finding back home.
After a short discussion amongst ourselves, we accepted his offer. Then I mentioned that before we signed any papers, I needed to take the car to my mechanic for a PPI.
“The car doesn’t leave the lot until after you buy it.”
“Is there a return policy if my mechanic finds undisclosed damage?”
“Don’t you trust our service department?”
“No.”
“You’re welcome to bring your mechanic here.”
“Without putting the car on a rack, there’s not much point. So, if I buy the car and then bring it to my mechanic, and he finds damage to the undercarriage, for example, what happens then?”
“Well, it would be your car, and therefore your responsibility.”
I thought about it for a second and told him that was more risk than I was willing to take. If anyone thinks that I’m being unreasonable, Google Certified Pre-Owned Undisclosed Damage and see how many results there are. When a sales- or used-car manager buys a car at auction that they expect to sell as CPO, and something shows up in the “189-point inspection” that is not readily apparent without putting the car on a rack, it’s going on the lot as CPO. That’s the big joke about the however-many-point “inspection” dealers perform on their CPO cars – nowhere does it say they’ll actually fix what they uncover.
I do want to mention that I was never prouder of our daughter, who’d already fallen in love with the car and given it a name. She stood there stone faced, not betraying an ounce of emotion, as we argued with the sales manager and walked out of the dealer. Not every teenage girl would have been as stoic.
We grabbed lunch then stopped at a Mazda dealer in Ft. Lauderdale on our way back to where we were staying. They had one with under 20k miles in the more expensive Preferred trim. The first question I asked was whether we’d be able to take it for a PPI, and they had the same policy. Very bizarre.
The punchline came when I called the mechanic the next morning on the way to Key Largo to tell him why we wouldn’t be coming in. He responded, “Why the hell did you want to buy a car in Miami???? They’re a bunch of crooks.” The mechanic then spent the next 45 minutes railing on the subject, including telling us the story about how his brother leased a Honda Civic and wrecked it. That guy and a buddy repaired the damage as cheaply as they could themselves so it wouldn’t show up on any vehicle history reports. He then turned in the car at the end of the lease as “undamaged”, which I’m sure went back on the lot as CPO. I felt vindicated.
Back home, I didn’t step foot in another dealer until after the Sentra was sold. However, I did track several local cars in a spreadsheet, betting that if they were still on the lot when I was ready that I’d be able to negotiate a good deal. Cars in New York intrigued me the most since the documentation fee is capped at $175, but the cars themselves aren’t any more expensive than in Connecticut, where the fee ranges from $599 to well over $1000. In the old world, you could tell the dealer to stuff their fee. In the internet age, where many dealers price their cars very aggressively from the outset, they tend not to move on the documentation fee.
One of the less expensive cars that did catch our eye was the Scion iA/Toyota Yaris iA (nee Mazda 2). A 2017 model popped up at a Nissan dealer in Massachusetts with about 60,000 miles, and the initial listing had no price. I hit the “Contact Us” button on the website, and a salesman called me the next day. He said the price was $12,500, and I asked him to text that to me as I was about to get on a plane. I made an appointment for the following Sunday to see the car.
In the interim, they finally added the price to the listing: $16,995. I texted the salesman to ask if he’d honor the price he gave me. He claimed he had no idea what I was talking about, so I forwarded him the text I’d so wisely asked for. Humbled, he said they would. That Sunday, we drove the hour to the dealership, hoping to get out of this for far less money than it was looking based on what we’d seen so far.
Outside, the iA looked decent enough and drove well, but the poor little car had been owned by a “picker”. He picked at the steering wheel rim, the emblem in the middle, the media controller on the console, and everything else within reach. In addition, everything looked dirty including the unidentifiable stains on the headliner over the back seat. The car wasn’t worth $12,500, much less $16,995.
While we were there, we decided to look at some of the other cars on the lot. The Versa was appealing – and even available with a stick if you could find one – but neither my wife nor daughter liked it. We then sat in a CPO Sentra SR, and both went, “Oh, yeah.” Besides being out of our price range, as it was only a year old with 10k miles, I didn’t trust Nissan’s CVT. If they had a warranty like Hyundai’s, I may have considered one. However, I did know of a Hyundai that cut a similar profile and was also available in a very pretty shade of blue.
We headed back towards home but stopped at the local Hyundai dealership where they had an Elantra that met our specs. Being Sunday in Connecticut, the dealer was closed, but I was able to gauge the positive reaction in the womenfolk. Before heading home, we did stop at a nearby Chevrolet dealer that had a blue Impreza sedan, but, like the Forte, the Impreza lacked the “sleekness” factor.
The Elantra we checked out on the way home dropped out of the running because, for reasons that I couldn’t fathom nor wanted to find out, it wasn’t CPO, which provides the remainder of the full 5/60 bumper-to-bumper and 7/100 powertrain warranty. For non-CPO buyers, it’s reduced to the remainder of 3/36 and 5/60. I know I could buy an extended warranty, but there were nearly identical CPO Elantras at nearby dealers for roughly the same price.
I set sights on nearby dealers since the day we spent driving to northern Massachusetts and back to see the iA was just not something we had time for.
All Hyundai dealers use basically the same website that includes a “total cost” calculator. The price of the Elantra on both dealers’ sites included a substantial discount for financing through the dealer. However, when you selected “Cash” on the price calculator, the Retail Price included the financing discount.
I contacted both dealers and asked if they would honor the price on the calculator. The first dealer said the discount was only available if we financed, and that the price calculator was only an “estimate” and may not always reflect the price a buyer pays. The second dealer replied with roughly the same thing but then included the magic words: “However, we want to earn your business, so we will give you the discount even if you choose to pay cash.”
To Be Continued.
Wow! Can’t wait to read the next installment.
What a saga. Since I assume that this has a happy-ish ending, I applaud you for recalling all of the details for us readers. I can already say that if this were my story, I’d probably have worked hard to banish the entire thing from memory.
I find it somewhat depressing that the sales tactics and drama — including the “sit down, stand up, I have to see my manager” thing which I find to be the functional equivalent of the “wash well, rinse, and repeat” motto on shampoo bottles — you experienced are the same as when I was last doing this a couple of decades ago. And likely someone reading this story a couple of decades ago would say the same thing about their experiences a couple of decades before that (sans the online price listing scam…then it would be the “price in the newspaper” scam). Rhetorically, I’d ask how come this sort of thing is a perennial feature of buying a car in the US? How come the Kurt Russell character in your lede photo would be instantly recognizable to nearly any American who has been alive since probably the 1920s, without a hint of nostalgia?
Hands down, “Used Cars” is my all-time favorite movie, with Blake Edwards’ “S.O.B.” as a very close runner up. I just love movies from this era.
It’s a jungle out there. These car searches can be fun if you have the time and aren’t under pressure, so you can call them on their baloney and walk.
Mazda3 would be my pick in the compact sedan class if you can make the price work. They feel somewhat special whereas just about everything else feels like an economy car.
We had a Forte for rental last summer just like the one you tried to purchase. Fully competent and decent car. Powertrain longevity is always an open question with H/K products for me, though. The brand has released a few poor transmissions recently and a long run of bad engines. Maybe that’s fixed, but after such a massive stumble I’d be a little uncomfortable owning one far out of warranty. Same thing with the Nissan and that Jatco CVT.
Don’t buy a Civic with the 1.5 turbo until you’ve researched the very expensive head gasket issues on that engine. A lot of Accord owners with that engine are facing $6000 repair bills when the gasket goes, and it’s happening under 100K miles.
That’s the beauty of Hyundai’s 7 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. When the engines and/or transmissions go, it’s usually within the warranty period. I know two Hyundai owners who are driving around with brand-new engines without having paid a penny.
There’s free and there’s fought-me-tooth-and-nail-and-took-3-months-but-eventually-it-was-free. There tends to be a backlog on replacements when powertrains fail at high rates, like GM is going through now with the L87, so if my car failed in the thick of it I’m not sure I’d be happy even if the warranty did cover it. I think Kyree posted something a few years ago about a family Kia that was a lengthy pain to have the failed engine replaced.
If you go to cars.com and do a nationwide search for any particular model of new car, you will almost always find the lowest price at a Florida dealer. The Florida Auto Dealer Association has done a great job of lobbying the state legislature to allow them to charge all manner of egregious fees, which are never reflected in Internet pricing.
Since most Floridians live in the southern part of the state, they’re kinda stuck with this nonsense, as going to a dealer in another state would involve several hundreds of miles of driving. But nobody else should ever buy a car in Florida.
That’s one of the things I love about New England. When I lived in Ft. Lauderdale, it was a 7-hour drive just to get out of the state, and even then you’re still only at the southern border of Georgia. From here, I can drive an hour in any direction and be in another state.
Third party car shopping websites like Cars.com and CarGurus should add a filter so shoppers can exclude certain states like Florida where seemingly every dealer advertises a low price and then adds on $3500 to the price when you actually want to buy the car.
I’m a resident of SW Florida but own a home in Cincinnati too. There is no earthly way I would buy a car in FL, especially a used one. Too much shady stuff going on and too many flood cars out there. A large dealer group, Gettel, specializes in gaudy painted pinstripes, door edge guards, clear bra on the hood, every upsell known to man.
At least in OH I know which dealership to avoid and which ones that won’t try to crack my skull.
I’ve had much better luck buying new vs. buying used. When you buy new, you’re better able to compare competing dealers’ pricing; knowing that warranties, etc. are truly compatible. I’ve seen some pretty darned sketchy used cars too, including on new-car dealer lots.
I’ve also been able to take advantage of special pricing offers and/or rebates associated with financing vs. paying cash. The key is to find out the details of the financing requirements — most importantly confirming that there wouldn’t be any penalty for paying off the loan early.
About 15 years ago, I bought a brand-new Hyundai and was able to get an extra $1000 manufacturer’s rebate by financing part of the purchase price. After looking carefully and confirming the details of the offer, I borrowed $2000 over 36 months, and then paid it off in full in 3 months without penalty. It’s been a while and I forget the calculations, but I recall that I paid something like $25 in interest costs to save $1000 on the price of the car.
Just when I think that buying a used car has become a simple, predictable commodity (via CarMax and so on), I get today’s useful reminder that it’s still a jungle out there, full of variables and such. I look forward to Part Two—thanks for taking us through all this!
BTW, I’m a Great Lakes person who knows about road salt—-would like to know more about car damage in seaside locations (like FL coast, etc.).
This story is precisely why CarMax, Carvana, etc. do good business – their product is overpriced overall, but it’s a solid price and simple closing.
Having lived in the Fort Lauderdale area for 17 years, I found that those dealers were mostly horrible! I went to two Honda dealers at different times to buy or lease an Accord.
The first had an LXI with a manual transmission. When we went to talk numbers, there was no discounting- instead it was add $1500.
The second time was when we looked at another Accord but this time a 4 door with an automatic. The salesman asked if we would be leasing or buying, I told him I wanted to lease.
So he showed base models. The first one my wife commented had no right hand mirror. He would happily add one for $130 plus labor.
We walked. And the used cars are big issues most of the time. Non disclosure on wrecks, joy rides are the rage, and most people there drive very hard.
I’m looking forward to part two!
It’s a bit odd to think a dealership would let you take a car offsite and have it inspected.
I’m not a fan of dealerships, just saying, I can understand the policy.
I’m in the camp that new almost makes more sense than used for a lot of car purchases nowadays
I wish the whole dealer model would go away to something closer to the Tesla model.
I agree it’s a two-way street, but the instances of mechanics causing damage during a PPI or customers intentionally damaging a car in order to get a discount pales in comparison to the number of dealers not disclosing pre-existing damage. Apparently, enough Floridians don’t car enough about a PPI that dealers can adopt that policy.
I have always been a hard bargainer when buying a car, but your story has me worn out! But I promise to be rested up for the conclusion.
I agree with you, JP! Having experienced some of the same tactics when considering used cars. When I went to purchase my first new car, I utilized my employer’s credit union and dealer of choice. After being offered a car in a totally undesirable color and options combo, I had to explain to the rep that I wasn’t in a hurry, and since I was buying a NEW car, I WAS NOT going to “settle”, I wanted what and how I wanted it, period. (IMO) One of the most idiotic statements from a salesman to me was “If you’re not hung up on color, we can put you into a car today!” Of course, this was before the palette of whites/silvers and grays that we are stuck with today! LOL!! 🙂
“…If you’re not hung up on color, we can put you into a car today!”
Excuse me Sir, what are you threatening to do to me?
Despite owning three perfectly good vehicles, I’ve been jones’ing for a change. Thanks for posting this … it’s been eight years since we bought a used vehicle, and although we had a very good experience, I know we were lucky. Also, despite all of California’s other cost-of-living challenges, our state DMV documentation fee is capped by law at $85 for DMV partner dealers AND $70 for non-partner dealers. Of course, license and registration is on top of that, plus my sales tax is 9.75% and no matter where you buy (tax varies slightly within the state) your tax is based on the zip code in which you register the vehicle. I just round up to 10% for tax and $500 for DMV in my budgeting. I’ve never heard of VIN etching.
OMG! Buying a more current used vehicle is such a chore vs buying new. Not say buying new gets you away from “let me talk to my manager” but at least you know there are no undisclosed issues with a new car. The used cars I have purchased have always been older classics so you can’t hide things on me. The only DD I have bought was the 98 Sable wagon but it was from a fellow Cougar Club member. Otherwise, the current three out for four DD’s, were purchased new and not one of them did the salesman mention the manager. In fact all offered me a price less than my target price if you can believe that. The last DD was inherited so you can’t beat that.
Oh, and the Mazda 3 is a nice driving car even with the 2.0 vs the 2.5 in 2018. My wife’s car so the only time I get behind the wheel is when driving the leg back from Reno to the Bay Area. The only thing that irks me, and would probably irk me in many other cars, is the high beltline. I feel that it hampers my peripheral vision between 7-8 and 4-5 o/c
I find your article, and the comments, very interesting – largely because I’ve been prepping myself for a similar car hunt pretty soon.
My car need will be similar to yours, since my two daughters will need cars soon, and our family is currently one vehicle short. I’ve been browsing similar cars to what you’re looking at (Kia, Hyundai, etc.) – and have even occasionally made spreadsheets to try to ferret out good bargains, but the enjoyment ends when the actual buying process begins. And I’m not looking forward to it.
Like others have mentioned above, buying New avoids a lot of these hassles, since you’re virtually guaranteed of a vehicle w/o problems, and one New Kia is equivalent to other New Kias, so comparison shopping between dealers is easier. And used prices are so high that in many cases I just don’t see the advantage of buying used. Once you factor in additional maintenance (new tires, or a 30k service that’s only a few thousand miles away) the differential between new and lightly-used disappears.
CarMax is compelling due to their transparent prices, but unfortunately they’re transparent High prices. And the urge to save money these days is mighty strong.
Thanks for sharing this ordeal – I’m anxious to see how the story ends up.
Wow ;
This is quite the saga, I was expecting to read how some used car ate your wallet, this is perhaps worse .
I typically buy at scrap value because I know anything I can afford will need work, if only due to entropy .
You’ve not even touched on the AC issue .
floriDUH vehicle sellers really are the scum of the industry .
they hide defects and wash titles of scrapped flood cars that look fine for about a year before everything begins failing and the rust showing .
-Nate
This is a fun little story. I look forward to your continuation.
One thing I’m curious about, and maybe this isn’t important, but are there any cars you found that were immediate “no” and why?
Thanks Colin. Do you mean “no” in respect to the cars we looked at. For my daughter the Forte and Impreza were an immediate “no”. And, of course, any truck, SUV or wagon. This also included hatchbacks that didn’t have fastback styling (Honda Civic – yes; Toyota Corolla – no).
The no-haggle price looks better and better.
Don’t know about you but after all that I need a nap!