After decades of collecting old cars for fun and (no) profit, I finally have a daily driver that suits me perfectly: My 2023 Dodge Challenger SXT with the “Blacktop Package” is exactly as I would have ordered it, and I’m still very happy with it 16,000 miles later. But not all is perfect bliss, as there are a few things that shouldn’t happen on a platform as old as this one.
However, let’s stay positive, because the minor issues I’ve noticed haven’t even been annoying enough for me to bother dealing with a dealership service department. The car is a perfect daily driver. Even with the standard 303-horsepower Pentastar V6, it has more power than I ever truly need, and it averages about 24 miles per gallon in my mixed-driving commute; it has even touched 30 miles per gallon on long-day drives. A little heresy: Here it is parked in front of Ford’s fabulously restored Michigan Central Station in Detroit.
It’s obviously the perfect color for me as well; as I mentioned when I bought the Challenger, lime green is one of my favorite colors, and “Sublime” was only available on 2015 and 2023 models. It was perfect timing. Here’s the Challenger parked near some Upper Peninsula backwater while my wife and I were out exploring waterfalls.
Unfortunately, all has not been completely blissful, as one might expect. The most egregious engineering oversight is this: the Challenger has frameless glass that retracts by a fraction of an inch so the door can clear its weatherstripping. That’s fine in some climates, but because I’m an idiot and park my nicest car outside so my fleet of beaters can stay dry, the glass freezes to the beltline weatherstripping about 50 percent of the time in our fine Michigan winter climate. Therefore, I carry an old Biggby coffee shop gift card in the console to break the rubber free from the glass. It’s a real problem, because the car won’t go into gear if the door isn’t completely closed, an extremely stupid oversight for a car that was in production for fifteen-odd years.
For comparison, my wife’s 2012 Mustang has an identical system, and her windows almost never freeze. Here’s a toast to the men and women in Dearborn for that one (not that that car doesn’t have its own issues).
While we’re here, the driver’s door handle requires far more “pull” to open the door than the lesser used passenger side handle; it’s not the effort, it’s the distance. I’m on the fence about taking it to the dealer under warranty, because I don’t want them to make it worse. Is that a terrible thing to think? Am I that cynical?
Another minor irritant is the infotainment screen. I’m kind of a traditionalist in that I’d prefer not to have an infotainment screen, but the Challenger’s is painfully slow in almost everything it does, especially when you first start the car. It’s not a morning vehicle at all, but at least the ignition button is on the dashboard where God intended it to be. Not shown in this photo is my car’s heated seats and steering wheel, which are a part of the car’s “Cold Weather Group,” in addition to a 180-amp alternator. The heated steering wheel alone is one of the greatest accessories I can imagine any car having.
Other minor annoyances: The trunk struts are very weak; they barely hold up the trunk lid, and I’m always fighting it when I’m trying to get into the trunk. Apparently, more powerful struts are available, but they tend to slam the trunk lid open violently. Feast or famine, I guess.
Also, the driveline has a mild but noticeable vibration and a little gear whine from the differential at certain speeds and throttle inputs. These are both extremely common based on my Challenger forum research; the vibration is most likely due to the two-piece driveshaft and center bearing Dodge used on Challengers and Chargers. Aftermarket sources sell one-piece units, but that’s definitely overkill for my little V6 model. Finally, the brake booster often bleeds its vacuum overnight, so when I push on the brake pedal to start the car, it’s like stepping on a board. But it still starts.
That’s about it for the bad, and as I said, the good qualities far outweigh the nuisances. Since I use my Challenger as a daily driver (which some people find strange around here), I decided early on to save my blacked out wheels from the salt. Although I grew up driving ’80s and ’90s Thunderbirds with mediocre all-season radials, the Michelin X-Ice tires I use on my wife’s Mustang in the winter proved to me that there’s nothing better than winter tires for getting around in the snow. That Mustang will go through almost anything.
I cannonballed down to a rural salvage yard about 90 minutes from me one afternoon in October 2024 to grab a set of steel wheels from a police Charger on which to mount my winter tires. I chose a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks, which were on sale at the time, and they’ve been fine. A note if you shop at Discount Tire: I needed four tire pressure monitors, and they were going to charge me something like $65 a piece for them. They do, however, match prices from anywhere, so I found the same brand online for $16 a piece, and they installed them for that price. I also bought a set of little cop hubcaps and lug nuts online to protect the hubs, and they are pictured below.
Finally, and some people will question this, I had the car undercoated. I didn’t take it to Ziebart for the tar compound, but I instead took it to a decades-old local business that people in my area swear by. It was quite expensive, and the car smelled like petroleum for months, but they use a grease compound everywhere. They pulled the door panels and the trunk panels and shot it into every crevice of the body, including the insides of the hood and trunk. My longtime (now retired) body shop friend had a 20-year-old Cavalier that was virtually rust-free, and he believed that if he would have taken it back for the tri-yearly touch ups, it would have no rust at all. There’s not even a spot of rust on the Challenger anywhere after its first salty winter, so if it can stay looking healthy for 20 years, I’ll be happy.
After all, I can’t imagine finding a perfect lime-green daily driver on any other dealer lot anytime soon.
Further CC Reading
COAL: 2023 Dodge Challenger SXT – Where Have You Been All My Life? (by me)
COAL Update (Part 2): 2023 Dodge Charger GT – In With The New (by JP Cavanaugh)
Cool car that you will never lose in a parking lot painted in that green. Probably a good thing you don’t like to speed, as I’m sure any highway patrolman will see you coming from a mile away and have that radar gun sighted in. It looks like it’s up to no good even when it is sitting still.
The window issue is perplexing from a company headquartered in the Great Lakes area. The few times I’ve driven a car with that auto-retract feature I wonder how long an owner could it expect it to last before breaking. I’m wondering the same thing about the automatic easy-exit steering wheel retraction feature in my GS. It’s gonna go at some point…
“It looks like it’s up to no good even when it is sitting still.”
That is something I’ve considered during my ownership tenure: Do I drive like more of a dirtbag because I have a Challenger? Is it a self-fulfilling prophecy? 🙂
The dirtbag factor is a real issue. I’m a different person behind the wheel of my orange Fiesta ST.
But I think I’m perceived to be worse than I am in reality because it looks immature and shouty even when cruising at 5 under the limit in a line of traffic.
Interesting comment about the rustproofing. My now 54 year old Ghia was rustproofed from new and there’s still no rust on it (and those things are acknowledged to rust furiously) despite being kept outside and driven through a few Chicago and now New England winters. I check it and touch in any areas that need it every year.
So your Challenger should be good until at least 2079 by my reckoning….
A lot of people dislike traditional undercoating because there’s some evidence that if any of it is compromised, moisture can get underneath the remaining material and wreak havoc. Like I said below, however, there’s no way that an older car would have survived without it in our climate.
Thanks for the update, Aaron. Glad to see and read that most everything is holding up well. The car is certainly looking quite nice. Who wouldn’t want that for a daily driver?
You’ve made me feel guilty about not keeping up with the annual re-treatments of the oil-based rustproofing that I have on several of my cars. The challenge that I’ve encountered is that around me this sort of rustproofing is franchise-based and particularly during the pandemic, a number of those franchises folded. The one I went to several years ago did a fantastic job (as it sounds like yours did) but when I tried to arrange for a refresh they were gone and the other likely alternative location has a reputation for doing a horrible job. Either way, it costs (again, around here) nearly $300 a pop, and I had no interest in paying that kind of money for a less than adequate treatment. OTOH, I definitely understand that the stuff wears off and does need to be renewed in order to keep working.
It is possible to diy, although doing it well really requires a lift and a lot of patience if you’re interested in not permanently wrecking your garage floor.
The nice thing about the place I got mine undercoated is that their compound is much thicker than something like Fluid Film or Krown. From what I can see, they ask you to bring the car in for an inspection and touchup more as a precaution than a requirement; it’s not meant to be a yearly reapplication.
I get underneath my wife’s Mustang every fall and hose down the problem areas of the undercarriage with Fluid Film in an attempt to preserve it a while longer. At this point, the car’s more than 14 years old and while it only has 130,000 miles, her commute is such that we’ll probably be getting a newer car soon. I don’t like to take chances with her being stranded on her freeway commute, and in the case of her car, it would be more because of something age-based.
Would applying some silicone or something to the window seals help prevent the glass from freezing to them?
It might, but the problem usually occurs when we get a particularly icy snowfall, or when moisture on the car melts and then freezes overnight, which is not uncommon around here. Really, I haven’t tried it because it would make a mess of the glass.
Silicone and rubber lubricant applied to the seals soaks in and leaves them supple.
Stops sticking and the seals perishing.
Only messy if you apply too much.
I might be in the minority, but I actually prefer the “cop car” wheels. I’m glad you’re enjoying your Challenger.
Me too.
Me three. It even looks period correct with the 71esque taillights and 71 being the year Chrysler began using black steel wheels instead of body color on the dog dish cars
I came here to say the same. They look terrific.
I guess I chose well! I only went with steelies because I paid about $50 a piece for them (minus the caps, I think I paid $120ish for a Mopar original used set).
I’ve legitimately been wanting to see a Challenger with those wheels since I became aware of them, just for fun here’s a sublime 71 with dog dish steelies 🙂
I just got used to you guys showing up a cruise nights in your “faux classic cars” Now a two year old car is worthy of an article. Nice car enjoy owning it.Keep up with the rust control.And write up another article in twenty years.
Beautiful car. Maybe it’s Mopar’s ghost causing the gear wind. My Volare had a whiny sound, but it was in the otherwise smooth and durable TourqeFlight automatic.
I went to Detroit a couple decades ago, had in-laws in the only vibrant neighborhood left of MexicanTown. I saw the old train station and thought it was too far gone to save. Snuck in, but didn’t go far as there were squatters plus I was concerned about potential collapse from the extensive water/ice damage. Great news to see it come back. Heard they are tearing down a good part of the Renaissance Center, I never liked it. It’s fortress Brualist Modern design looks like something from Stephen King’s Dark Tower. I understand it’s a beloved landmark, but I think it was designed to keep suburban office commuters and convention goers from wondering out into the once decaying, but now vibrant downtown. Glad to see the city of Detroit coming back.
I’ve heard that the Renaissance Center is on its way out, but I haven’t at all looked into it. It’s certainly the first thing you see when you enter Detroit, but I agree that the inside especially is not very appealing.
+1 on using the car as a DD through the winter. I had no qualms about driving my 415HP, 6MT, RWD ’17 Chev SS (née Holden Commodore SS-V Redline) in Central IL winters. I did, like you, run snow tires (which were great on snow, but only so-so on wet roads).
I had the same freezing frameless door glass issue on my ’13 VW Beetle TDi convertible. Dealer said “they all do that, including the hardtops,” and this was a significant factor in my decision to move on after only 18 months with the car.
I thought of Ed’s beetle as soon as I read that comment. Our 07 Mustang convertible does it too, but we don’t drive it in the winter.
Great that you’re getting fun use out of your Challenger despite the annoyances. I have not seen the Central Station since it’s restoration, perhaps conditions will be conducive to visit again in the future.
You should really check it out if you get a chance, Doug. It’s beautiful.
I don’t have that problem with the glass sticking on icy days with my ‘07 Mustang either (Mine’s a coupe, not a convertible like Doug’s). I am surprised to hear the Challenger does that. Price to pay, I guess for the faux hardtop look.
I’ll echo the others above who say they like the cop wheels. Nice touch for a few months out of the year.
And your car looks “sublime” in that color!
Nice car. That’s the color I would choose as well.
Great Choice on the BLIZZAKS. I swear by those. My 1st set was on a 89 Crown Vic wagon years ago. Unstoppable in snow.
Currently have a set on the rear of my 98 F150 (4.2 V6/ 5 speed/2wd). They’re on year-round as I don’t drive it much. I can NOT get that thing stuck in snow. I never imagined a snow tire could make THAT much of a difference. I remember my mother’s old 70 Impala wagon with snows in winter. Even with dedicated (1970’s) knobby snow tires, it would still occasionally have trouble.
Tire Tech has come a long way since the 70’s.
If anyone’s looking for a dedicated snow tire, the Bridgestone Blizzak is the tire to get. Seriously.
In my fleet manager days I tried a few sets of Blizzaks, and they were fine but I found the Nokian Hakkapeliita to work as well or better and they lasted longer, though neither were great for mileage.
We also discovered that Haks maintained their winter abilities all the way through the wear cycle while half worn Blizzaks had lost quite a bit of theirs. My tire supplier confirmed that he had observed the same. This was nearly 10 years ago though so things may have changed.
One thing is for sure, if you live in a winter area a good set of dedicated winter tires is a more than worthwhile investment. If I had to choose between proper winter tires or 4wd, it would be the tires for me.
I second all of your opinions/observations, starting with the choice between proper winter tires and 4 or awd. At least for someone whose main goal is to drive a car on roads in the winter. May be a different story if one were intending to do off-roading, plowing, etc. But with winter tires on any of my cars (only 1 has awd, so I’m not counting that one), they routinely drive through stuff that people with non-winter tires and awd have issues with.
I love the Nokians and had those on my E91 for a half-dozen years (so, 2 or 3 sets)…but last winter when they needed replacing, they were replaced with Blizzaks due to price. The Nokians have gotten quite expensive and few discounts were to be had. So, Blizzaks. I used to use those years and years ago and back then, they did wear and lose traction as you indicate. I have heard that the compound is better now. We shall see. Nothing compares to a good set of Hakkapelitas though if you can afford them.
By the way, I’ll also use this reply as a way to add another vote for Aaron’s steel wheels and cop hub caps. Love that look!
I would second the Michelin X-Ice as a good choice of winter tire. I’ve had a set for my van for six years and have not had any issues in a Western Michigan winter. Folks have asked me if my van was AWD, my reply is I will take FWD with winter tires over AWD and all-seasons on paved roads.
I haven’t noticed any loss of traction in my Michelins as time has worn on, but I only get about 3,000-4,000 miles per year on them. Honestly, in our neck of the woods, folks who can should be running winter tires this time of year.
Very nice car. I’ve heard others testify that the Chal/Char/300 with Pentastar V6 makes for a great DD or highway cruiser. It definitely seems like many of those problems should have been resolved over such a long production run. The cop wheels really look good!
I’m curious what problems you’ve had with your wife’s 12 Mustang. V6? I had an 11 GT with very few problems (never had to worry about the window freeze scenario in SE TX).
Her Mustang has the 3.7. The problems mostly involve a clunky suspension system that is much worse when it’s cold. I narrowed one of the noises to something inside the steering rack, so I replaced that with a salvage yard unit. I’ve replaced the sway bar links, upper strut mounts, tie rods. It still gets clunky when it’s cold out. I used my chassis ears to check the control arm bushings and ball joints, and it’s not them.
Also, I’ve had to replace the rear sway bar links twice for the same reason. It’s just a rattly car.
I bought my 2011 new and sold with 85k miles. It never had any front suspension problems, again the lack of much cold weather probably worked in its favor. Come to think of it, I did have a little bit of rattle from the rear the last couple years I had it. It wasn’t severe or consistent and I never really tried to track it down. Maybe I should have replaced the sway bar links!
Great car! I love the colour with the cop wheels and hub cap as they work very well together. Life is too short and winter too long to drive exclusively boring cars in the winter. This winter I have been driving a NA Miata … with winter tires of course.
On my commute, I’ll often see a guy driving a retractable hardtop Miata with winter tires on it. Why not? We’re both often the only two drivers who don’t seem to be afraid of a little snow, too.
We park 3 of our 4 cars in the winter for the last many years.
I gave up trying to save a nice car while driving it in the winter. It was time consuming and futile.
So we drive a used CRV in the winter, parked in the summer. It’s has not had summer tires on it in 5 years since we bought it.
The CRV is currently full of salt and rockchips, back from a 3000 km ski trip to B.C. (Fernie, Silverstar, Sunpeaks, Banff).
Removing the car covers in the spring, from our other 3 vehicles that missed the salt, is a terrific feeling!
I have a car that came originally with a 2 piece driveshaft. It was replaced with a new one piece, (not by me). Above 25 mph the vibration is unbearable, The car is a rare Maxima, so no 2 piece driveshafts have shown up and the car is parked. I suggest that the 2 piece on your Challenger is the best design, they probably make a replacement one piece because it costs 1/2 the price. A good driveline shop should be able to narrow down your vibration and fix it for good.
This was an especially interesting read for me. My Charger doesn’t do the retracting glass trick, and the car usually lives a sheltered garage life anyway. I have also never noticed the deck lid strut issue or the whine/vibration on my car. But I remember the differential whine at 45 mph in my 85 Crown Vic, so I know how annoying something like that can be.
I like the cop wheels and the idea of winter tires, but my car is AWD and even with nearly new all-seasons, it’s possibly the best snow car I’ve ever had.
And I completely get your reluctance to risk a dealer repair on some of these issues.
I wonder if the trunk isn’t a problem on your car because the decklid is most likely lighter (being that your rear window is of a “faster” design). Just a thought.
The differential whine wouldn’t be so bad except for that my mechanical experience has seemingly trained my ears to hear nothing but mechanical noises.
I am not a real big fan of my local Ford dealer, but your car was purchased new, and you should try to get some of the problems fixed. Especially the driver’s door handle, it will only get worse over time. I used to build cars for GM, and sometimes they only would go together correctly once, on initial assembly. I have a rattle in my Flex’s dashboard, and even with the extended warranty, I’m kind of leary of having the dealer tear into the dash. The V6 Challengers have plenty of scoot. my Flex has only 280 ponies and it is actually pretty quick, for a wagon. The gas mileage of the V6 is also pretty good, I was looking into a V6 Chrysler 300 and was quite impressed.
The door handle is most likely the one thing I’ll address with a dealer (as of now). If any of the other minor issues get worse, I’d rather deal with it myself when the car’s out of warranty, because I care about the car and am willing to put the time in to get it right.
That is great to see an update on your car. I have wanted to have sporty daily driver like this as a winter car, but it just wouldn’t work for my life situation right now (maybe after retirement) and likely just wouldn’t be possible in my climate with the how harsh the winters are up here. You are lucky to be in the “balmy” Detroit area in comparison.
I am happy to hear you got the car rust proofed. Those us that live in areas that get really harsh winters know that even modern cars do not hold up without rustproofing despite the big improvements from the factory. If anything, it seems in my area the salt and brines used have gotten worse in modern times. That grease based rust proofing sounds very interesting. My dad had his cars done with something similar in the 1970s. In fact my Torino still has this grease based rust proofing inside the body panels 5 decades later. In my area I am stuck with oil based options only, which do work really well, as long as you have a good applicator and it’s done regularly. I also do my own rust proofing on my daily drivers, by using some Surface Shield in the trouble areas prior to the Krown and I use a cosmoline on the high wash areas since Krown tends to wash off too easily.
I have used winter tires on all my vehicles for the last two decades. About 20 years ago, I only used them on our car and would run an AT tire on my truck. Then I got stuck with my old Suburban with the AT tires, which I thought were good enough and clearly weren’t. I went out and bought a modern winter tires with studs and it was night and day difference. I only run premium winter tires on all my vehicles and replace them before they reach 6/32’s of tread. 4×4 gets you going, the tires will keep you on the road and let you stop.
Thanks Vince,
There just has to be a better way to melt snow and ice than road salt. I’m just convinced that there has to be. 🙂 I too am a winter tires believer. When my wife’s Mustang became the go-to bad weather car, it’s pretty obvious that they work.
My climate is good for being able to see which cars tend to rust more vs. which tend to rust less. Rusters will rust, while those less prone will look good for quite awhile. From my experience, the Challengers and Chargers tend to hold up quite well against rust from the factory. Vs., say, most big American pickups, which do not.
Good idea undercoating your car. This in my opinion is mandatory in climates where snow and salt on the roads is abundant for six plus months of the year.
The old style undercoating helped keep my Vega almost rust free and the Mustang I bought later in 1979. The other plus at least with the thicker old style coating is a little more sound deadening.
I’m convinced that the original owner’s decision to go to Ziebart is the only reason why my ’74 Firebird still exists.
You seem to be quite a particular owner of your classic cars, fixing things that many of us would be too lazy – or in my case, incompetent – to fix, so I’m surprised you put up with that vibration, let alone a whiny, whingeing diff. (As bad as having a kid in the back in a similar state, surely). Get Stellantis to pay for its correction. You’re right, such faults just shouldn’t be there on such a venerable design.
It’s still cool, btw.
Thanks! My mechanical experience has taught me that all cars have “baked in” faults, and you can drive yourself insane by not letting the car be itself, so to speak.
Also, I in no way trust a dealer to rebuild a differential, and based on my research reading about other owners’ experiences online, there’s no guarantee a new differential would be any quieter; plus, it’s not loud; I’m just sensitive to mechanical noises.
One example of why I don’t trust dealers to do big jobs: My neighbor had a 2007 Chevy Traverse with the “High-Feature” 3.6-liter V6. He had an engine problem, and the dealer pulled it out and rebuilt it themselves. I couldn’t believe it, but they did, and it blew up on the expressway and left him stranded. They then did what they should have done in the first place, and installed a new (or at least remanufactured) engine. In the meantime, the car was in the service department for weeks.
Regarding the vibration: Apparently, it’s a common enough issue (and I haven’t checked on this in a while) that driveshafts are sometimes backordered. I looked into it online after an hours-long freeway drive where the vibration was annoying me, and I got underneath and checked out the driveshaft center bearing support, and it was fine. If it gets worse, I’ll take it in or have my local driveshaft shop take a look at it.
I am so glad I don’t have to deal with winter here unless you want to call rain winter like today. If it gets cold then I use gloves.
A couple of years ago when we finally decided our 14 year old Pontiac should be retired from daily duty, I asked my wife what she would like to drive and a Challenger was one of the mentions. However, she was smitten with the then-new Chevy Trax and we ended up with one of those.
Fast forward to the current day, and I am considering retiring both my Pontiac and my Chrysler Town and Country as we really don’t need that many cars. I have been considering a nice SXT level as a replacement, so I’m glad to see real-world experiences with the car I’m considering. Thanks!
Get the more powerful struts, mine are on their 3rd winter and they don’t slam the lid up at all. Getting slammed in the head or having the lid come down on your arm or hand is not a pleasant thing to have happen. I got a set of new stock ones and they started letting the lid come down as soon as it got below 20 F.
The silicone lube will solve your door problems….mostly.
Thanks for letting me know about your experiences; I just ordered a set of trunk struts. 🙂
“The car is a perfect daily driver. Even with the standard 303-horsepower Pentastar V6, it has more power than I ever truly need, and it averages about 24 miles per gallon in my mixed-driving commute; it has even touched 30 miles per gallon on long-day drives.”
I feel almost the exact same way with my 2011 Ranger. Even the base 4-cylinder is powerful enough to get me around 90% or more of the time, especially when I have to contend with stop-and-go traffic. Unless I always haul a heavy load or tow a trailer, the 4.0L V6 or any of the engines in the newer Ranger would be overkill! I’m usually able to get 27-28 during the warmer months of the year, but even when it drops to 24 in the middle of winter that’s still better than what the V6 can manage on average under similar conditions.
My 2016 Transit Connect gets even BETTER mileage, thanks in part to its 1.6L EcoBoost (when you stay off the turbo) and numerically lower gearing (3.21 vs. the Ranger’s 4.10). The Ranger is still my daily driver however because a lot of the stuff I haul with it (firewood, yard debris, garbage, etc.) on a semiregular basis would mess up the van’s interior (it’s the passenger model). I save the Transit Connect for long highway trips (where 30+ is EASILY attainable) like when I go to Edisto Beach for my vacation or visit other family/friends during Thanksgiving & Christmas, as well as for transporting cargo that is better handled with the likes of a minivan. You simply choose the vehicle that fits most of your needs the best!