(first posted 6/20/2011) To understand Peugeot wagons, and the superlatives about to be heaped on them here, one needs to start with the basics: unlike almost every other post-war wagon, they were not just a sedan with a long roof. The Peugeot wagons (and pickups) essentially rode on their own unique platform/chassis, at least from the windshield back. With an extended wheelbase to accommodate three forward-facing seats, and a remarkable rear axle/suspension that had a load capacity (in the wagon) of over 1200 lbs without sacrificing any of that famous French ride, for over fifty years these half-car/half-truck Peugeots made a rep for themselves that has no equal. And in case you’re not convinced, here’s an example of what they were capable of:
Kids; don’t try this with Dad’s Audi Avant. That’s a 404 Pickup transporting two 404s, including the beautiful Pininfarina Cabriolet. The pickup shared the wagon’s beautiful alloy center-section rear axle, but did have leaf springs instead of the wagon’s four-coil rear suspension, and was normally rated at 1000kg, or 2200 lbs (over one ton). Admittedly, this one might be a tad overloaded.
We’ll look at some other examples of the Peugeot pickups’ beast-of-burden abilities,
or the burden of beasts, in the most challenging corners of Africa and China, where the last Peugeot 504 pickup was built as late as 2009. But let’s start from the beginning, instead of the middle.
The Peugeot wagon history starts in 1948 with the 203 sedan, Peugeot’s first post war car, and a completely new one at that. A modern unibody sedan, it had the first of Peugeot’s long line of classic four cylinder engines: iron block with an aluminum alloy hemi-head, valves actuated by pushrods.
The little four had all of 1290 cc and 42 or 45 hp. To put that in perspective, the VW bus of the time had 25 or 30 hp. It’s all in the gearing.
Here’s a picture of a 203 engine that was modified for rally racing in the early fifties, when the 203 began Peugeot’s long career in that sport. This on sports a ribbed alloy valve cover, a Constantin blower, and headers. The 203 smashed the record for the grueling Cape Town to Paris run, in seventeen days. That solidified Peugeot’s durability creds and its vaunted rep in Africa.
Some have suggested that Chrysler was looking this way when they designed their original 1951 hemi. Too bad they left the alloy heads off theirs. The Peugeot four would be developed continually but with the same basic configuration for some forty years.
In 1950, the wagon version of the 203 appeared on its 20cm longer wheelbase and seating on three rows, setting the standard that like the engine, would be improved for half a century.
There’s a decidedly American flavor to the 203; looks so much like a Chevy or Dodge, or? Well, its time to put Peugeot in perspective, in French terms, anyway. Like some other European countries, the French automobile industry had a decidedly “political” flavor to its manufacturers. Not necessarily political per se, but in a corollary in terms of being progressive or conservative.
Citroen and Panhard were clearly the radical progressives, and while we’re on the subject, I will say that the Citroen wagons based on both the DS/ID,
as well as those based on its successor the CX were undoubtedly the ultimate wagons ever, with their amazing hydro-pneumatic suspensions, fwd, and excellent space utilization, among other remarkable qualities. Ultimate, yes; the most advanced, memorable, innovative, complicated, challenging to keep running…you see where this is going. To be the greatest wagon in the world one has to consider that a true wagon is a utility vehicle, and needs to also be simple, rugged and fixable. The Citroens were the queens of Paris’ boulevards, but good luck trying to keep one running in Kenya fifty years later.
And we also have to give a nod to the Volvo Duett, which was praised here recently as the “Most practical Car In The World“. In may ways, Volvo’s approach to making the Duett was similar to Peugeot’s, although perhaps a wee bit less refined. The Peugeot’s four doors alone were a major advantage. Volvo went back to longroof sedans with the Duett’s successors.
Back to “politics”. Peugeot was always the most conservative of the French makers, sticking to their tried and true conventional RWD vehicles and a strictly evolutionary approach until; well, many wish it had stayed with them forever. The “French Mercedes” eventually strayed from its traditional roots, and today Peugeot is…something different.
To understand the Peugeot wagons, one also needs to understand their primary purpose. There were no small passenger vans at the time, just crude load-carrying ones. These wagons were comparable to the “station wagons” of America’s past, as originally used to haul arriving passengers from the train station to their hotels. Undoubtedly, that’s how many of these eight passenger “Familiales” were used, despite their name.
They were the functional equivalent of the Suburban in its early days, and the light vans and trucks that eventually killed it off.
Fold down seats in the second row gave access to the third row, not unlike the CUVs of today.
The 203 pickup version was also built on the wagon’s lengthened and reinforced chassis, and also started a long tradition indeed. The last Peugeot 504 pickup was built in China in 2009. Europe had no tradition of pickups being built with their own unique bodies, although that was largely the case in the US prior to pre WW2. The Peugeot is most directly comparable to the Australian utes, which also have passenger car front ends but sturdy rear halves. But to my knowledge, Australia didn’t build wagons on their ute chassis, at least not commonly.
The 403 appeared in sedan form in 1955, but in what would become Peugeot tradition, the wagon and pickups had a delayed introduction a few years later, in 1958. Designed by Pininfarina, as would all subsequent rwd Pugs, the 403 had an enlarged 1468 cc version of the four, making some 65 hp.
Peugeot’s first diesel engine appeared the same year as the wagons, and began a long line of “Idenor” diesels, and established Peugeot as the second main passenger-car diesel pioneer after Mercedes-Benz.
A 403 wagon almost was my first car. A girl’s family I knew in Iowa City had one sitting under a tree, a souvenir of a trip to France the family made in around 1960. As forlorn as it looked, it spoke to me: of the possibilities that could take place in its oversized rear compartment. Any vehicle big enough to sleep in had interest to me, being a traveling lad at the time. The parents might well have given it to me, but I was a bit intimidated. Oh well.
Of course, the 403 also came in pickup truck form. The leaf springs are quite visible here. To the best of my knowledge, the 203 and 403 wagons used leaf springs too.
That all changed with the 404 wagons, that appeared in 1963. Citroen had revolutionized the French definition of ride, and Peugeot now got on board. The front suspension now had extra-long travel struts and coils, and the rear had four coils. The key to making a long-travel suspension work is in the shocks, and Peugeot built their own, a unique multi-valve rebuildable unit that typically lasted 100-150k miles; unheard of back then.
Our 404 wagon was just like this green one; a 1970 model, the last year for them. I was driving a stick-shift 404 sedan at the time, and Stephanie was finally ready to learn to drive(!), but not a stick shift. So I picked it up for $75 because the engine had blown a head gasket and hydro-locked. Too bad, because the the 1970 was the only year that used the new 504 sedan’s new 1800 cc four, which had a bit more grunt than the 1600 cc 404 unit, especially with the ZF-built three-speed automatic.
But I knew a Culver City junkyard that had several old 404s, and I picked an engine that “looked” good to me, and transplanted it in the street in front of the junkyard. The good old days. Kind of perverse to swap in a smaller engine, but the price ($50) was right, and it ran like a top. The wagon body was still in excellent condition, and the polished rear wood cargo area was a classy touch. Sure wish I still had it.
I even found a huge factory roof rack in the junkyard, which fastened into a series of threaded receptacles in the roof. With a load inside and on top, the 76 hp 404 wagon with its automatic was leisurely, but always got us there, no matter what the road or conditions, including a mad dash through the Mojave desert at 3 AM in a deluge, fording washes several feet deep. The long grade up 395 to Mammoth wasn’t as bad as I had expected: full out in second gear was 45 mph, and it held that steady as a rock. But there was one time I wondered: an insanely steep driveway out of our rented condo there; given the altitude and the full load, I was afraid the torque converter wasn’t going to be able to convert enough of the little mill’s grunt to pull us up it. Barely…
The 404 wagon felt like it was on rails, with a remarkable desire to stay on a perfectly straight course, no matter what came its way. That’s what a narrow track and long wheelbase tend to want to do; a real bus. Corners were not its forte, but it could be coaxed. Sadly, we sold it when Stephanie developed carpal tunnel syndrome, which she blamed on the wagon’s manual, and none too light steering. It would make a fine replacement for my gen1 Xb today.
The eight passenger “Familiale” were never imported, for one reason or another. It would have come in handy on a few occasions after our kids came along.
This would probably be a good time to bring up a very similarly-configured American station wagon, the Olds Vista-Cruiser and Buick Sportswagon. Built on an extended-frame (120″) version of the mid-sized GM A-Body cars, the extra length went to exactly the same place as in the Peugeot wagons: enough room to create a foot well for the forward facing third seat, that itself sat over the differential. This was a distinct departure from typical US wagon configuration, at least since the early fifties when wagons were still tall enough to mount a forward facing third seat directly on the flat floor of the rear load compartment.
GM took this concept to its ultimate expression in the gigantic 1971 mega-wagons, which had a whopping 126″ wheelbase, their own leaf-spring rear suspension, and the famous clam-shell rear tailgate. The World’s Biggest Wagons, to be sure.
The 404 wagon certainly was more space efficient, not to mention fuel-efficient. But who cared about that in 1971?
Before we leave the 404, let’s take a quick look at some interesting derivatives. My personal favorite: the dump truck. Yes! that’s exactly what I need; a wagon, and a matching 404 dumper, or tipper, as the English more appropriately call it.
I can’t really explain this one; mother-in-law’s private traveling compartment?
That camper looks exactly like a Chinook. In fact, it must be one, or a faithful copy, but riding on a 404. Add it to my dream fleet.
And when I go, please let it be in this.
The 504 wagon appeared in 1971, three years after the sedan, as usual. In many ways, it was the ultimate Peugeot wagon, embodying the unique capabilities and qualities that defined the genre. A bit wider and longer, with a raised roof to swallow more cargo or taller third row passengers, the 504 became a common sight in the US, especially in CA, after the 1974 energy crisis, in diesel form.
Folks would mount auxiliary fuel tanks in their diesel Peugeots, and drive down to Tijuana once a month and fill up on 15 cents-a-gallon Pemex diesel, to avoid the long lines at the gas stations. There was a really mini-boom in these for a few years, and it gave Peugeot a badly needed shot in the arm, as its US sales were always modest. Which meant tiny dealerships, and potentially iffy service, one of the things that led to Peugeot’s downfall here. These cars had their foibles, and if you didn’t have the right resources to deal with them, they quickly became someone elses’ very cheap used Pug wagon. Likely someone who knew their foibles all too well.
The 404 had already become the dominant car and truck of much of Africa, and the 504 extended that even further. It was built in Kenya (until 2004) and Nigeria (until 2005), as well as Argentina (until 1999) and China (1997; pickup 2009). And if the standard configuration wasn’t up to the job, Dangel made a series of four-wheel drive conversions that would take your wagon
or pickup just about anywhere. You get the idea. The 504 was not your K-car Town and Country wagon.
Here’s another view of the wagon’s rear suspension, with its four long-travel coils and Peugeot shocks. The differential carrier is a nicely-ribbed aluminum alloy unit, and is the same axle as in the leaf-springed trucks. Its 1265 lb load capacity was substantially more than the full-sized American wagons of yore, who used to squat and sway under the load of the family vacation load.
Time to wrap it it up, with the 505. It’s got its own CC here, but let’s just say that for many lovers of Peugeot wagons it represents both the ultimate expression as well as a bit of a comedown. Heavily based on the 504, both the sedan and wagon were not really that big a jump forward from it, except in areas such as safety and performance. That’s hardly a put-down, but it did lead to greater complexity and likelihood of issues. The remaining 505 are all safely in the hands of devoted fans of the brand.
The turbo 505 wagon was in a class of its own, a unique combination of the huge capacity and brisk performance, with a suspension tuned to cope with both demands quite effectively.
But the interior of the 505 was pretty generic eighties, lacking the distinctive French ambiance that so permeated the earlier versions.
The 505 was never treated to the truck versions, presumably because the changing marketplace with modern light trucks made that irrelevant for Europe, and the 504 was happy to soldier along in the developing world.
I’ll end with what I started with, a picture of a 404: the gifted middle child of a very uniquely endowed family.
See related CC Peugeot 404 sedan article here Peugeot 505 wagon CC article here
Bravo …
Writers on Brand X blogs like to make ill-informed jibes about the handling of French cars, but I can state from experience that the 504 wagon provided remarkable ride comfort, lack of wallowing, nimble steering, and a surprisingly small turning radius. The car also still had the beautiful “wood” floor with the rubber runners in the rear and a distinctive instrument panel, complete with Gallic features such as a indicator stalk mounted on the right. I’ve never driven a 505 but in appearance it seemed too internationalized … I’m so glad my mom agreed that we should buy one of the very last new 504 wagons to be found on a dealer lot …
(Fortunately, the full horror of my having previously recommended the very first Audi 100LS to a family friend was not yet comprehended at that time … )
Its stupid to knock French handling My 406 7 seater wagon could leave BMWs looking stupid on corners easily in fact the 406 is one of the best handling cars of the 90s bar nothing and the ultimate in comfort,I found a Peugeot ute recently loaded with rubbish parked on Napier Hill in real good order obviously someones dump runner
Our Peugeot 504 wagon didn’t “roll” in corners, though my Renault 5, Renault 4, and Citroen 2CV could certainly be said to. And the GTA (1987 model-year sports Alliance) I had was one of the best handling front-wheel-drive cars ever (not just my opinion but also documented in multiple magazine at the time) ….
Sadly that 404 ute is now a complete wreck. Three young boys taking Mums car for a sneaky drive, going too fast and losing control. Shoved it into a wall, so much force it crushed the battery.
Yes I talked with the owner he sent the remains for scrap and now runs a tidy ZX Citroen diesel hatch.The pickup wasnt rebuildable.
Sadly that 404 ute is now a complete wreck. Three young boys taking Mums car for a sneaky drive, going to fast and losing control. Shoved it into a wall, so much force that it crushed the battery.
Hi Paul,
If you find yourself coming to Australia send me an email. I’m in the Peugeot Car Club of NSW and I can show you some Peugeot hospitality from Australia.
Peugeot have been popular here from the 203 onwards. I still have my 504 that in purchased in 1972. Plus some others.
Rgds
Steve..
Hi I am looking for a 504 if anybody can guide me to any place in the world where I can look for a good right hand drive vehicle.The last ones , I understand were made in Nigeria in 2004.
Help.
Thanks.Sam
If you still need the Peugeot 504, new or used let me know, Either you contact Peugeot Automobile Nigeria or ASD motors, or if you want one i could get for you. get me on thompson607@gmail.com . something like the one in the attachment
I am looking for Peugeot 404 to buy
Gosh, Peugeots played a significant role in my young life. One of the first cars I worked on, as a budding gas station mechanic, was a 403 sedan. My brother owned a 1958 403 wagon that was a real tank. Later he owned a new ’69 404 wagon, and purchased a 1970 wagon for his wife. The father of a good friend owned a ’64 404 sedan that he bought new. I loved the wagon’s cargo area – all that lovely wood. And yes, these cars handled quite well, once you got used to the French roll! Thank you so much for this article.
We still have some very good 504 in kenya
Get in touch at digitaldynamicskenya@gmail.com
Charles
Peugeot had some fun ads. Who needs 3D glasses when you can use scissors and tape!
Mr. Niedermeyer, you have accomplished the impossible. You have convinced me that I really want a Peugeot wagon. Unfortunately, the pickings in central Indiana are mighty slim. I think that they may have sold approximately 39 here over the years. Nevertheless, thank you for showing my why I should care that there were not more.
My only actual experience with Pugs was that briefly in the 70s, the owner of the taxi company in Fort Wayne, Indiana replaced his Checkers with diesel Peugeots. It must not have worked out for him because they all disappeared and were replaced by Chevys, I believe.
Also, when I was in school, the guy in the apartment next door owned a silver Peugeot sedan. This was in the early 80s. After the second time it was stolen, he bought another. He was an immigrant from one of the African countries and swore by his Peugeot. He would never have considered anything else. I was just starting to get used to the idea of a Peugeot as a legitimate choice for an upscale sedan when they pulled out of the US.
“I was just starting to get used to the idea of a Peugeot as a legitimate choice for an upscale sedan when they pulled out of the US.”
It was never really properly “upscale” though, which was at least part of their problem in the US. They were very pricey, and lacked the equipment levels to justify the expense. I suspect it was a function of exchange rates at the time.
In spite of that, they were a yuppie fad for maybe three years back in the ’80s. A few years later, you couldn’t give these cars away and I do recall many, many broken-down, sad looking Pugs in CA by 1986 or so and by ’88 they were downright rare. That’s why I always dismissed them as “crappy, faddish yuppie-mobiles”, LOL.
Frankly, I still find it *very* hard to believe the 504 and 505 cars weren’t fragile and prone to frequent breakdowns, as I do remember quite well all the junked 5-year-old Pugs back in the day. Of course, it may have been the EPA-required mods that caused that, or maybe there were just no US mechanics who knew how to fix them — looking at the contrast between the rep they got in the USA versus the African version would appear to confirm there was something like that happening…
Though I always chalked up the African Pug rep to desperation and a lack of African Chevies, frankly, but now that I know PN swears by them my curiosity is piqued and it’s possible I may have been mistaken in dismissing these. 🙂
Very good writeup Paul, even if this car is not really my cup of tea. Must admit though, the styling of the 203 is simply gorgeous, and the hardwood and leather interior on that 404 wagon is as well!
A shame you have gained this perception. I’ve been driving a 505 for over 25 years, in Australia. Most reliable car I’ve ever owned. ( have had other makes over this time also– all cost more in maintenance, and never as enjoyable to own and drive)
“My only actual experience with Pugs was that briefly in the 70s, the owner of the taxi company in Fort Wayne, Indiana replaced his Checkers with diesel Peugeots. It must not have worked out for him because they all disappeared and were replaced by Chevys, I believe.”
Ha!
Having had some small experience with Checkers and Chevrolet taxis…I can say with confidence: The move to Peugeot was a step upward. And, from what I’ve heard about Peugeots of the time, the move to Chevys, another step upward. And I say that with no great love for Chevrolets, then or now.
Car & Driver had a writer, I think Bedard, who did a humorous profile, allegedly true, of a Saturday Night Live style garage…that absolutely refused to work on “Pigouts.” From that, from the Renault experience, from the scarcity of these cars among people who actually have to work for their money…I pretty much figured the brand was not the apex of automotive value.
Hey, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. I love some strange cars, too…like the Metro…
(ducks…)
Another lovely review Paul, greatly appreciated by those of us who toil to keep our Peugeots on the road. Having learned to drive in a ’73 Buick Safari Deluxe wagon, I dont remember station wagons all that fondly. This review however makes a good case for the Peugeot wagons and I’m with JP, I’d like one too – good writing will do that. Also agree with johnnyangel, I saw a 504 wagon in a salvage yard and the “wood” floor and rubber runners were just beautiful. So nice I decided to take them, still sitting in the garage, may eventually modify them for the trunk of my 504 sedan, they’re so nice. And coincidentally, a 404 wagon just popped up on craigslist in san luis obispo this week, every car is a new adventure.
I was interested to note that a couple of the earlier cars pictured had contemporary Dutch license plates, and that the restored-looking black 203 sedan has a modern Swedish plate and looks like it was photographed at a car show there. Chances are that it seems every bit as exotic in Sweden as it would here.
Hey, what about the 405 wagon? It was sold here for several years…
What’s a 405? We’re talkin’ classic rwd Peugeots here, none of that new-fangled fwd stuff that made Peugeot just another car company.
Hi Paul,
for many years I had a 69 Wagon which went for about 225,000 until the bitter end.
I am looking for another late 404 wagon,
Do you know of any for sale in the US?
Please let me know
Thank you
Mike
I just stumbled onto your site and stopped dead when I saw the photo of the burgundy 404 wagon. I had a ’69 that color in NYC around 1980, an Automatique bought in New Jersey, absolutely flawless but for a seized engine. Found a beat sedan and transplanted the mill. The guy who bought it from me a couple of years later told me how easy it would have been to bring the manual trans along, which would have fixed the only part of the car I never liked. CLUNK! I also had to steel myself each time I approached it at the curb to find which parking or taillight or backup lamp lens or bumperette had been mangled in the past 24 hours. One day I heard the plastic snap behind me as I unlocked the door to my building. But it was a beautiful thing, much beloved by a couple of junk yard owners who let me know whenever a wagon came in with the rear trim items I was constantly replacing. Anyway, looking forward to checking out what else is here… Panhard 24! I collect photos and have been putting together a motor blog you might find amusing, @ http://www.reservatory6.blogspot.com.
The big Peugeot wagons were definitely the best example of predecessors of the current MPVs, back when Peugeot was indeed still considered the French Mercedes, albeit with a somewhat lower status.
However, if they’d stuck to that image, Peugeot probably would no longer exist, or at least not as a big player in the market. Sales were slumbering in the 70s and 80s, and the 505 certainly wasn’t helping to improve them. The advent of the 205 in ’83 and the 405 in ’87 marked the turning point: handsome, well-handling cars like those and the 306 were what Peugeot really became succesful for in the modern times – everywhere on the globe except North America. Too bad that at some point someone at the design department decided to make the cars edgier and edgier with every new model, getting worse with the 407 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Peugeot_407_HDi.jpg) until completely jumping the shark with the 3008 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Peugeot_3008_20090712_front.JPG – who the hell came up with THAT?)
Worst of all is that while the 307 SW still tried to maintain (or return) the people-carrying aspect back to station wagons, placing 6 bucket seats under a tall roof made of glass, its nominally larger brother, the 407 SW, was simply hideously cramped in both the back seat and the boot. At least now Peugeot understood that wasn’t the smartest move, the new 508 break is considerably larger, although not ground-breaking and not showing any ingenious space use whatsoever.
Actually, I never liked those 505s, they were fairly abundant here in Europe when I was a kid, but I remember it mostly as looking plain boring while having no real advantage over its not too much younger competitor, the Renault 21 Nevada, which also had a 3 row option, and looked much better (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Renault_21_Nevada_Parkside.JPG). Incidentally, my mum owned one of those, had some driving lessons in that. The 505 break was popular as a company car though, white van man-thing.
Didn’t know that the wagons were so different mechanically though. They do live up to their name of French Mercedes, in terms of longevity (and, as a consequence, vast presence in Africa). Variations on a theme from a country that lacks space for huge pick-up trucks or 6m-long wagons.
BTW wondering: were the 604 and 605 ever sold in North America?
The 604 was. I’m still trying to find one for CC!
There’s one that’s often parked near a doctors’ office in Astoria, NY. Right near 34th/33rd avenue east of Crescent Street. I’ll see a about a wild CC hunt if you haven’t found one yet in the wild.
Paul – I’m the owner of the Curbside Classic “holy Grail” white 404 sedan, and now also of a very handsome French-market 604 turbodiesel 5spd with the top-range interior. It has a few minor flaws, but runs and drives beautifully. If you’re still looking for one to write up, let me know!
Kevin Amidon
ksamidon@gmail.com
Hi,
Loved the article – but wanted to clear something up about Australian wagons – from the 1950’s through to a few years ago it was pretty standard for both Holden and Ford to release a Ute and a Wagon variant on the long-wheelbase version of their sedan chassis.
Ford only gave up the Falcon Wagon a few years ago, and the Holden ‘SportWagon’ as its now called, recently switched to riding on the standard-wheelbase Commodore chassis instead of the longer-wheelbase Ute.
Found a few pics of Australian wagons throughout the years:
1960 Holden: http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=96049&sid=962b7b30d4b1cc03ad7c254adaa02c98
1963 ‘EH’ Holden wagon: http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=T2AB2C3DI1BAHU79
circa 1983 Ford Falcon ‘XE’ wagon: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_Falcon_XE_Wagon_GL.jpg
2011 Holden Commodore Sportswagon: http://www.holden.com.au/vehicles/sportwagon#/overview
Cheers – just doing my bit for the Aussie contingent 🙂
John.
I should have know, and checked that. Thanks for keeping us honest!
You were close Paul, they started with the long wheelbases in the 1970’s, family friends had a Fairmont wagon with the 2-way tailgate but the Chrysler Valiant was bulkier if not larger.
There is a prototype 1988 EA Falcon wagon at the Ford Discovery Centre museum in Geelong with coils and a 3rd row seat a la 505, but the production version stayed with leafs until production ended last year by which time it was effectively fleet only due to perennial development starvation. I drove a couple of those, including an lpg version with ~30gal tank.
I’m a bit more familiar with the 504, having driven a friends one and ridden in a diesel version set up for outback travel, both in light metallic green. Not as good though as a rally stage ride in a 404 sedan – standard-ish but in expert hands it was astonishing.
Also, the Australian Falcon wagons used a leaf spring rear end right to the very end of their production (ceased in ?2010), despite the sedans moving to coils some 20+ years previously – initially on live rear axels, then on coil-sprung independant rear ends….. The leaf-sprung Falcon wagon was a true load carrier, in a similar vein to the Pug wagons…
Great write up Paul on my favorite marque!
If you ever expand on Citroen wagons, be sure to cover the Ami-6 break. The 2CV’s uglier cousin. Had one, now in Portland.
Should be fun to find a 604!
Not many know this model was adapted from the 504 including the doors!
Write on!
One often hears about the comfort of French cars. I’ve had occasion in the past year to rent a Nissan Versa hatchback several times and was surprised by the smooth ride and quietness of such a small car on a long highway trip. Apparently under the skin it is actually a Renault??
Megane platform I believe. Also clearly French arty/awkward styling (but not like any Renault- it just could have been one- including the interior, similar to the Quest back then. I think the head of Nissan design was a French guy at the time.
Paul, Another thanks for this post. Sorry to read that you missed out on the 403 break. I think you would have liked the 403. I always wanted one. Well, that was just a bad break, as it were!
Thank you for your excellent site! Glad to read about a true blue Peugeot enthusiast in the USA!
I am fortunate to have a (South African) assembled 404 wagon, yes and my favourite car at present! (I also have a 505GTI, 504GL, 403 sedan and a converted, 1963-1968, saloon racer 203.)
The 404 is as greast as ever, town/country/family/work/holiday vehicle. It has cost me a bit to bring it up to standard, but it is all worth it. Please send me your email address so that I can send you published adventure story and pictures. Dawid Botha, President Peugeot Club of South Africa.
Dawid; I’m jealous, obviously. Send your text and pictures to me at curbsideclassic@gmail.com I look forward to it. And have you seen the other two Peugeot articles I’ve done. They’re in the Curbside Classics European Brands Portal on the upper right side of the page.
Hi David…ek is Kallie le Roux van Merweville in Karoo….e-pos adres…kallieieroux@ Yahoo.com….kontak my asb..Groete
Hi Paul,
I had a 404 sedan in 1968 and I am seriously thinking about importing one from Europe. Any thoughts about ease or difficulty in servicing it? Any mechanics you know of in Atlanta?
Thanks!
Bob S.
Very nice article indeed!
Coincidentely I own the 404, 504, 505 estate models, as well as the in the article mentioned GM Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser (the largest estate ever built…).
With the last mentionend vehicle (which I own for 20 tears now) I crossed the African dessert twice and it is still up and running; last week I used it to transport a heavy steel beam with the length off 4 metres.
Very enlightening article! Now I see why Peugeot 505 Station Wagons used to the ubiquitous hearse in Chile during the 80’s and 90’s.
I live in North NJ, and the other day I came upon a a strange wagon that I initailly pulled up behind and then it changed lanes but staid in front of me for a short bit; it was a Peugeot 407 SW ?!?!?!?!
At first I couldnt believe what I was seeing and then I noticed it had NJ issued manufacturer’s plates on it? Even stranger?
Peugeot used to be headquartered in the town I currently live in up until its U.S. pull-out and even for a few years afterwards.
The 407 SW was a good looking car and the older gent driving it looked quite content.
I caught a glimpse of the interior and it looked very modern, it also had an automatic transmission!!
I wasnt able to get a photo since I was at highway speeds and after a another minute or so it sped off as I was exiting the highway.
I was surprised to say the least and will now be on the lookout for it each day.
My father used to have a 1983 505 Silver Edition sedan – had everything on it. Cushy ride, handled very well, roomy and airy interior. Lasted for over 12 years.
Pugs are known to be really rugged in Africa, always curious how they just didn’t take over here in North America.
….the French car manufacturers thought of first selling cars here in the US and then, and only then, meaning IF cars were sold, they would invest in a network of dealers and repairers, parts and all….well, came the Japanese who invested millions in order to show off their product, were able to adapt to the local demands, offered honest warranties, had parts available, trained american mechanics..etc, etc….the rest is history. The French made a somewhat similar mistake in their marketing approach (or lack of) with wine; they “refused” to adapt to the American expectation of buying a wine knowing the grape varietal (cepage)….go through most restaurants wine lists these days and you can count on one hand the number of French wines, except in the top top places of course….quel dommage!
Well put; that really sums up the problem.
How they sold cars in the fifties and early sixties, through little “dealers” might have worked then, but not in the changed world by the eighties. Buyers’ and owners’ expectations had changed considerably, and the French didn’t ever get that.
Cher Dominique,
Ca va?!
Please write to me!
I have a 203, 403, 404 sw, 504 and 505GTI. My grandfather had a 203 in the fifties and I can remember as a small boy putting my finger between the teeth of the lion hood mascot!
In France those teeth are all gone because they have opened up too many beer bottles…..
Dawid Botha
Club Peugeot Afrique du Sud
dcbotha @adept.co.za
I came across your site by accident…great! I own a 1957 203, my wife’s grand’ parents car from France (I imported it here in Illinois after the grand’pa’s death in 1978). Am I the only one in the US to own such? FYI: it runs and drives very well, just took a 2 day week-end trip into WI, 662kms, really a great ride! And I agree: today’s Peugeot is just “another” car manufacturer, same thing goes for Citroen who used to be so “ahead” of times. I also own and drive 2 2cv’s and a Traction Familiale 1955, all “drivers” looking very good but not concours by all means. In my unsolicited opinion it is too late for the French manufacturers to come back to the US, their fault! bad approach in the first place in the ’70’s, even before actually! Thanks for the forum DL
Thanks, and for sharing your thoughts and your cars. Nice collection, btw. Enjoy them!
My family would import a new Buick from the USA every few years,1923-1965,they were considered cars for the wealthy in Australia.I have owned many one owner,almost mint condition,404 sedans,one rusty ute and a 1970 404 ute with an original 36,000 miles on the speedo.Last 404 was a two owner,always garaged,89,000 miles,1968 and rich cream ext with tan and black and chrome int,a beautful car.That was in the 80s,90s and 2000.Upon release the 404 was the most quiet car on Earth,quieter than Rolls Royce.I didn’t have much mechanical knowledge then but the 404 was as simple as a Meccano set.My late father said to me those Peugeots are old fashioned looking cars,but he changed his tune when I took him for a long drive on a bitumen road and returned on a rough dirt logging road.He said you can’t tell the difference between the roads.No longer have a Peugeot,sadly.Great article and comments,thanks.
Roderick, Your comments are spot on! I still travel those bad roads with my 404 wagon! You can visit or join any of the very active Peugeot clubs in Australia. Check websites, e.g. Peugeot Car Club of Victoria (PCCV) is the oldest Peugeot club in the world! it was started after the 203 won the Redex trial in 1953. At that stage my grandfather had a 203. The Peugeot Clubs in Aus have excellent club magazines, e.g. Torque and the Pugillist. Let us keep on Peurrring, mate! Dawid Botha, Stellenbosch, South Africa.
Dawid Botha-with no disrespect,only humour,the late Groucho Marx once said “I would never become a member of any club that would allow me to join”.
505 wagon rear was upgraded to an all alloy differential with a single variable rate conical coil at each wheel managed by the magic 8 valve shocks. It really was an upgrade over the old four-spring rear. My US spec 1987 model refused to move forward one day (reverse OK) and I sold it for $100.
I learned to drive on a gasoline powered 1978 504 wagon. Started easily at 22 below 0 F with the manual choke. Loved how the owners manual told how to jump the cooling fan relay. Took the car airborne over a frost heave in my town dozens of times without a scratch. Transmission whine was lovely.
I just don’t understand how modern cars ride and handle so much worse even with lower maximum payloads.
Peugeot 404 xo excelent on performance, trying to revampish my dads.
Had a friend in the early ’80’s whose DD was a 505 STX sedan. That was actually a fun car, and probably the only PooJoe I had any interest.
Except for the one underneath the willowy blonde next door as she cycled all over town, who I married nearly 30 years ago.
Had to get rid of the bike, but kept the seat. And the wife, of course.
My earliest car memories are of my Dad’s ’73 504L Diesel sedan (with 4-speed column gearchange). Nigh on indestructible, it ferried us four kids around France for years. One day, it was nicked right from under Dad’s nose. Soon after, the French police gave it back to us when they busted a Peugeot trafficking gang that had repainted it and were about to ship it to Algeria!
Then, in the mid ’80s, he bought a 2nd-hand 604SL (one of the early ones, like a ’76 or something, with manual transmission) that looked nicer but was an absolute lemon and stank of gas. Boy did us kids throw up in that one… ugh… memories of winding Corsican roads with that smell in my nostrils brings back a tear to my eye and the stomach acid to my throat.
There are virtually no 604s left even in France nowadays. The V6 was a gas-guzzler and the body rotted away so quickly that they never made it to this century. You’re likelier to see a well-used 504 or 404 on the road than a 604, which didn’t sell well in the first place, particularly compared to, say, the Citroen CX (especially the break version — those are incredible, check them out), which can still be seen on Continental European roads.
Funny thing is we then moved from France to the US. Daddy went local and got an ’86 Pontiac 6000 station wagon, and because he didn’t like changing cars, we then brought that back to France with us in the ’90s.
All the comments I read about French cars in the US (perceived lack of quality/image, no dealer network, not suited for the local roads/conditions, etc.) can be applied to American cars in France. One day, the transmission gave out, and he got himself a VW Golf. I used to like that Pontiac for a simple reason: because it was the only one of its kind in the country, I could pick out its distinctive exhaust note from a distance and know that my folks were headed my way. Quite useful when you’re a teenager in a small town out doing mischief with your friends.
That 203 wagon is delicious. My fave is the 404 with the correct cant on the rear lights. 405 and 505 are great looking as well. hmmm… I think I like all of them.
Hi all,
Just curious as to why the 304 wagon wasn’t mentioned. My dad purchased his brand new rust brown 1970 in Ontario’s salt belt ( Sudbury ), and the darned thing was reduced to scrap metal in less than 5 years!? In the meantime, it comfortably jockeyed a family of 5 on all of our summer vacations while achieving over 50 MPG!!
Great memories!
Thanks CC!!
Because the focus of this article is specifically the RWD Peugeot wagons, which were all a continuous development/evolution of the first, the 203. They share many aspects, including the same basic gasoline engine architecture, as well the approach to their lengthened wheelbase, three-row seating, etc.
The 304 was a cute little wagon; I remember them well. But it and the later FWD wagons are just not in the same league as these heavy duty haulers.
Nice article ! .
My Father bought his first Peugeot , a ’59 403 Sedan and as the New England salt began to kill it , a ’67 404 Wagon when he was vacationing in France ~ what a wonderful car that was .
Followed by a ’76 (IIRC) 504 Wagon after he moved to California , another good car but it really didn’t like to go fast in the mountain curves .
After he moved to Canada he bought a Diesel Wagon he took to Hawaii when he moved there , he loved it , I don’t recall ever seeing it .
I bought a ’76 504 Sedan for $125 and tinkered it back to good health , another fine car , easy on gas and a real joy to drive , it had the very best seats and sun roof I’ve ever had .
Sadly , the difference in how the cars were made really seemed to stymie American Mechanics , the Dealers were useless .
I worked for two French brothers in an Inde. Peugeot Garage , we had no troubles keeping them in running order atall .
-Nate
I drove two Peugeot station wagons, a 1972 404 (manufactured in South Africa) and a 1984 505 which I bought in Belgium in 1989. I bought both second-hand (The 505 actually served as a hearse, so I got it cheaply – happily it was not black, but a filthy army green). The 505 returned with me to South Africa in 1991 and I sold it – after it gave me excellent service – in 1998 to a Zimbabwean gentleman. I saw the car in 1999 driven by the same gentleman who assured me that the car was still giving excellent service.
At the moment I am living in Benin (West Africa). 505 station wagons are plentiful (same with 504 station wagons) over here. Their ruggedness make them ideal for these road conditions and they are prized for taxi services between Cotonou (Benin) and Lome (Togo).
I still own a 1959 Peugeot 203 sedan which I purchased in 1975 and which remained in South Africa. This 203 took me to work every day up to January this year (when I moved to Benin). Indestructable car!
Interestingly, two guys in a 203 station wagon did a 17 day trip from Cape Town to Paris in 1950. This was repeated by two 203 station wagons in 2000 (fifty year anniversary) – this time the trip took several weeks.
Regards
W E de Groot
bonsoir je suis mrs late de cote d ivoire je veux savoir combien coute une peugeot 505
peugeot 505diesel break
I already own a 505 sedan sti version. It has a double barrel solex carburetor, four port head with siamesed induction manifold. It has a magnetic marrelli distributor factory fitted as OE equipment. The car goes like a rocket at above 3000rpm!.I am also working on a 504 truck and l have to admit at this point that I am sincerely smitten by these cars.My third car however, will be a 406,the one with the 2,9 liter v6 engine. I am told these engines eat a lot of mercs and beemers with engines 2,5 liter and below.
We still have some very good 404s and 504s in Kenya
Get in touch at digitaldynamicskenya@gmail.com
Charles
The name of the Diesel engine is actually “Indenor” (for “société industrielle de l’Est et du Nord”).
We are rebuilding a same 1970 green 404 Familiale at the moment 🙂
Taking parts from earlier years 404 sedan and wagon including roofrack.
We will have one solid mint car and parts to go for like 20 years.
This will be a surprise gift for my friends wife birthday!
She is probably going to drive this on a daily basis.
They have 4 kids and most likely will plan a trip to the South of France with it next summer.
Love the article !
Bon Nuit,
Wolf
This post was largely what inspired me to go check out a 1985 505 turbo diesel wagon on craigslist when I was looking for a fuel efficient vehicle I could fit a large dog crate in. I was on the hunt for a decent w123 wagon, and, having read this post, went to investigate when this opportunity presented itself. Having owned a 240d in the past, the 505 is a better driving vehicle in every way. It does not have quite the degree of obvious build quality, but is still rather nicely done in that regard. The more one learns the engineering perspective behind the Pug, the more appealing and interesting it gets. Mileage on longer trips, using cruise control, can get into the 30s, and as had been mentioned many times, it is very comfortable for extended seat time. It also happens to have the best wearing leather seats I have ever encountered. With an indicated mileage of close to 200k, and based on service records, likely much more, the seats look like they may have half that, and their foam and structure is still very sound.
Great article. Makes me yearn for my old 504 estate.
All of these estates/breaks are almost entirely absent from the English motoring landscape.
My Dad might have bought a 504 wagon in 1971, had the Peugeot dealer stayed in our town. Instead, he bought a VW Squareback which was quite cramped for a family of 5 , and dog. A Peugeot wagon with that 3rd row seat would have been pretty cool. No chance of sitting by my sister, who I didn’t care for at the time.
Got mine
Just bought a 2016 Subaru Outback wagon but I would trade even-up
for the green Citroen wagon pictured on the site.
Great looking wagon !
Paul, here is one FS in your neck of the woods.
http://barnfinds.com/little-red-wagon-1971-peugeot-304-wagon/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=emailutm_source=Newsletter+(Daily)&utm_content=imagelink
That mid ’70s, metallic gold, 504 wagon pictured is exactly like the one that Mrs. Donna Dunckel (the cruelest lay teacher I ever had in catholic school) owned. Her’s was a diesel. I remember thinking how ugly, noisy and smelly her Peugot was. Quite like Mrs. Dunckel herself!
To cut a long story short,we have had 8 Pugs in Sydney, Australia since 1974.
Serviced by 3 euro loving mechanics we have had their sometimes quirky nature tamed and enjoyed remarkable reliability and great handling.
Having 5 kids meant we started with 504 sedan and wagons,2 at a time.
Currently driving a 407 sedan and a 1991 505 wagon as a spare which rarely gives trouble.
The wagon is still vast ute to carry long timber etc.
cheers John
Here’s my 404 Break. 1/43rd scale die-cast, French Dinky. Acquired on the same 1964 trip to Europe as the Maserati 3500GT I posted last month.
We had an ’81 504 wagon in the mid 80s, the most functional wagon ever and with a great ride and seats, but couldn’t get used to the sluggish diesel, even with a manual trans. A few years ago came across a very nice gas 505 wagon, silver with blue velour, and almost bought it, kinda wish I had now.
I just saw a 505 Wagon at PIR where I attended the Speedtour whistle stop (I call it that because I have no doubt that is probably the smallest-field, most poorly-attended on the schedule). When the couple in it got out, I remarked to him that I hadn’t seen a 505 wagon in a very long time indeed. He responded that it was the most reliable car that he had ever owned. I do not doubt his veracity.