CC Wordless Outtake 2: Small Sporty Hatchbacks, Then and Now
– Posted on June 6, 2018
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My best friend bought a new 1984 Civic S Hatchback around the same time that I bought a new CRX 1.5. Both cars were 5-speed with A/C. Al’s Civic had the same red/gray color scheme as the featured car and had a black cloth interior. We drove each other’s cars fairly often and the Civic gave away very little compared to the CRX, plus it had a back seat and more hauling room. He loved it and drove it for ten years. However, he neglected the 60k mile timing belt replacement and ended up having some expensive repairs when the belt let go at around 75K miles.
New ones are taller but bumper to bumper isn’t much longer than the old one
I love my 2017 Fiat 500e, driving it just about every day. I’m pretty sure this one is the gas model, as the electric has a longer spoiler and insignia I don’t see here.
All new 500s go fast and handle very well. The extra height over the CRX is quite evident here, just enough taller to be good for seeing and being seen in today’s tall traffic.
The Fiat has quite a slope in the hatchback compared with the squared-off CRX. I wonder which has more cargo room behind the front seats. CRX is a two-seater of course while the 500 has small rear seats that stay folded down 100% of the time in mine.
FCA has finished production of this 500 generation. (My 500e was made in Mexico, with a Bosch drivetrain made in Germany.) Yet to see new ones hit the streets. There is some question about the future of the Fiat brand in the US. Sales have been disappointing in spite of some pretty great cars. Fiat is not selling SUVs and pickups, so they’re neglected by Americans’ current fads.
For that matter small sporty hatchbacks of any brand are nearly dead and gone from the USA. 🙁
FCA has finished production of this 500 generation.
I have been trying to figure out what FCA is up to with the 500, There have been no 2018 models. Sales are now plunging because dealer stock is low to none in many places since shipments of the 2017s ended around last September.
However, in February, at the Chicago show, FCA announced a refreshed 500, supposedly hitting dealers this month. Same car as we have had since 2012, with a couple cosmetic changes, not the next gen 500 that people have speculated about for some time. Now, all non-Abarth 500s will supposedly have the mild turbo engine that the “500 Turbo” featured, before that model was dropped due to lack of interest. FCA is also taking back the big price cut the 500 received a couple years ago.
For the last year, there has been a perpetual $1,000 incentive offered on 500s. This month, the incentive has been bumped to $2,000. Seems to me, with inventory thin, the next model costing a lot more, and not even on the Fiat US web site yet, let alone in dealers, this an odd time to increase incentives on the existing 500s.
The thought crosses my mind that the updated 500 that FCA has been touting for 4 months now is vapor, like so many other proposals that never materialized and the company has now decided to blow out the remaining cars in inventory and stick a fork in the 500.
While the incentive on the 500 has gone up, I think the incentive on the 500X has gone down. Sticks in my mind they were offering a $5,000 incentive last month, but the incentive this month is only $3,500.
Here’s a piece on both the cosmetic tweaks, and price increase on the 500, if we ever see it.
http://fcauthority.com/2018/05/fiat-500-gets-a-1500-price-bump-for-2018-as-the-base-models-get-turbocharged/
On the concept of an automaker talking up one course of action, then changing it’s mind and lurching off in a different direction:
Ford ran Wayne Assembly at full trot to build up a big inventory of Focuses before ending production a month ago, presumably to tide them over while the model was on it’s year long hiatus. There were storage lots full of Foci all over the area. Now, Ford is blowing the Focus out with a $5,000 incentive. The one storage lot that I pass, in Ypsilanti, which was bursting with cars a month ago is now completely empty. The Ford dealer in Ann Arbor is offering Focus S trim sedans with manual trans for $13,404,
“The thought crosses my mind that the updated 500 that FCA has been touting for 4 months now is vapor”… Could be. But FCA still needs an electric “compliance” car for California.
FCA did list a new 500e for early 2020 and a Jeep EV for 2021 at their press event last week. What they’ll do with the 500 this year and next is still a mystery.
FCA did list a new 500e for early 2020 and a Jeep EV for 2021 at their press event last week. What they’ll do with the 500 this year and next is still a mystery.
The chart you posted probably lists all their electrics that will be available somewhere, but not necessarily in the US. the 500 and Panda absolutely own their segment in Europe. I noticed that chart lists the Jeep Grand Commander, which according to official pronouncements is China only, though I expect it to replace the Dodge Journey in the US eventually, so that is another clue that that chart is not US only.
Could be. But FCA still needs an electric “compliance” car for California.
The administration in DC is fighting tooth and nail to revoke California’s authority to set it’s own emissions regs.
I’m glad someone else was wondering what was up with the 2018 500. I was actually kind of interested with the addition of the turbo engine across the board, albeit not so much with the accompanying price increase ($1500 for the turbo seems a little salty).
Of course, the 2017 had a big price cut, too, so maybe it’s a wash. Still, at this point, I can’t believe that FCA is going to release them this late in the model year. Is there going to be a brand-new 500 coming for 2019? If so, well, I just don’t see there being a 2018 500 (and I’m talking the standard 500 here, not the ‘X’ or ‘L’).
Regardless, I’m much more fond of the 500 than the New Beetle, particularly the 500 convertible version.
…. Is there going to be a brand-new 500 coming for 2019?
This article, from last January, claims the next gen 500 will be available in Europe in “mid 2018”, which would be about now. Marchionne’s statements on June 1 indicate an electric version of the new 500 in 2020.
Of course, Marchionne has promised product before and never delivered. Remember, when he dropped the Dart/200, he assured dealers they were not abandoning that market segment and production of those models would resume as soon as a “partner” could be found to built them cheaper. Turned out to be vapor.
Remember the Chinese built Focus that Ford promised us? More vapor.
Word was the next gen 500 for the US would be produced in Poland. Now the plan is to consolidate Panda production with the 500 in Poland, so that invites the question: with that one plant churning out the two models that own the A segment in Europe, why disrupt production with an occasional run of US spec cars?
Was the intent of showing the “2018” turbocharged 500 in Chicago last February to encourage people that the 500 will not be an orphan so they will be emboldened to buy one, then scare people into buying a current one to avoid the big price bump? iirc, the low spec turbo is no Abarth. The performance improvement vs the naturally aspirated version is measurable, but the car is still not quick. Car and Driver found a 2013 500 Turbo/5 speed did 0-60 in 8.1sec vs 6.9 for the Abarth and 9.9 for the non-turbo 500. The old Turbo stickered for $20,200, so the alleged “2018” Turbo Pop would be a bit cheaper.
Here’s the article I mentioned at the top.
https://www.just-auto.com/analysis/analysis-future-fiat-and-abarth-models_id180547.aspx
Yeah, I knew the across-the-board turbo engine for the 2018 500 wasn’t the same one used in the Abarth, but a return of the old turbo that had been discontinued for 2017.
I also knew it wasn’t quick, but at least it got the performance of the 500 up to acceptable. It was enough of an improvement over the non-turbo 500 that, barring a big price increase, would be worth the wait. I’m just not feeling that there’s going to be a 2018 500, at all. That’s why I figured if there was going to be a brand-new 500 for 2019, they’d just skip the 2018 model year.
I’m just not feeling that there’s going to be a 2018 500, at all. That’s why I figured if there was going to be a brand-new 500 for 2019, they’d just skip the 2018 model year.
By saying 2019 for the next gen 500 in Europe, they may be talking about some time in calendar 19, not the usual North American 19 introductions of fall of 18. There are still no official photos or an unveiling for the new gen car that I have seen, indicating it’s many months, or years, away.
Meanwhile, the refreshed “2018” shown in Chicago is, at this point, vapor. No word on availability date. No mention on the Fiat US web site. Meanwhile, dealer stock is getting thin. Two dealers out of the 5 within 50 miles of Detroit have no 500s at all, and only one dealer has any Cabrios. VW showed an entirely new generation Jetta at the Detroit show in January, and it’s in dealerships now, stickered as a 2019. Certainly, if FCA was serious about getting new 500s to dealers, there would be some movement by now.
I keep vacillating about what I want to do for a hobby car. I want something kind of small, but I also want to try a BEV and like the idea of the 500e.
With my new (to me) house, I have a kick-ass garage now, it has a 220V 200A box (and natural gas plumbed in, too). I think it would be pretty easy to live with a BEV or a PHEV in these circumstances, particularly as I don’t have a long commute.
But, the 500e has to compete with used Leafs, Volts and C-Maxes, all of which have more utility. I think I’d be happy with a Volt, as it has a pretty sporty feel and the added benefit (and cost) of a back up ICE.
Maybe I’ll just flip a coin.
Be sure you drive a 500e before you decide. It’s got Italian character and style and it’s a kick to drive. Punch it away from a light or at speed, you get a satisfying push, and it corners very flat. The interior is very nicely trimmed and equipped. Sounds like 80-90 mile range would suit you fine. Nothing beats a pure EV.
Tonkin Fiat on the west side of Portland has eight 2015 500es in stock post lease, mostly around 20K miles or less and most asking $10K.
I drove a leaf the other night, quite impressed at 100kmh its as quiet as my C5 just not as comfortable in town it was great, good pick up and not a new car a ex JDM used import series 1 I think.
First, drive a C-Max. For me, it feels taut and precise in a Euro way, with quicker steering than my last car, a Mk. V GTI. Routine handling is about as good, with the Max even using the same tire size. You just can’t leap into corners, GTI-style; it’s a different car. But with almost 200 hp and a 0-60 of 8 seconds, it’s no road slug. My plug-in Energi has given me 66 mpg in the first year, plus about 2000 KWh of AC juice.
This isn’t a CRX; it’s a Civic S hatchback (four passenger).
Oops, my mistake. I should have known better, I was crazy about the CRX back then. Never did end up with one.
Shameless 500 defender here; I love the damn things! Tiny outside, moderately spacious inside. Tons of colors, along with interior choices. What other car lets you choose between a black or ivory dash, along with 3 interior color schemes between the two? I’m waiting to look in person the new 2018’s with the 135 hp / 150 lb Turbo 1.4 motor “new” for the year. I’ve been on the fence for one of these since they came out, and that “3/4th” Abarth motor has huge appeal. Give me Latte Menta / Avorio in either a Pop or Lounge coupe and I will be sold right quick.
I love ’em too. I’d be very happy in one, except for the lack of cargo room. I wish they made a Gardiniera wagon version, like the original 500.
I will forever contend that this generation of Civic isn’t a hatchback at all, but rather a shooting break. I miss near-vertical liftgates.
Having experienced both, let me say that while the majority will love the Honda and diss the Fiat, I like the Fiat more. As good as the Honda was, especially compared with the new car equivalents of the day, it really is not as nice a car as the Fiat. Interior space is better in the Fiat, comfort is better in the Fiat, ride is better, and amenities in the Fiat are miles above the Honda. A lot of that is simply due to 30 years of overall improvements in cars. However, the modern Civic is huge compared to the 500, and it probably has more comfort, features, and overall desirability. Throw in a Renault Dauphine into the photo, and you have another similar sized car, but 30 years older still. And that car would pale to the Honda in every category. I guess cars really do get better as we go forward, but nostalgia can make us love the older ones in a way we cannot love a newer car.
I’m willing to bet the pictured Civic is the roomier car. On reason, besides the boxier shape: the larger wheels/tires on modern cars, require large wheel wells, and eat up a fair amount of space.
My 86 Golf is probably about the size of a new “Mini”, but has a lot more useable space.
I know that the ergonomics of the Civic are better, at least for me, because I rented a Fiat 500 3 years ago and found the controls to rather poorly arranged. I’m 5’10 and couldn’t easily reach the radio…
In terms of fuel efficiency, the Civic wins.
The newer cars are heavier, safer in the event of a collision, generally (not always) have better HVAC, and have better sound systems. They are also a conduit for your personal whereabouts.
I think that by the 1960s, reasonably well-designed cars had attained a level of reliability and civility that would work for many Americans, and by the mid-1980s, most Americans.
If we applied the electronic wizardry of computers, with fuel injection, to 1980s cars, like the Civic or Golf, think of the fuel (and emissions) we could have saved.
Don’t be so sure, because outside of shoulder roominess, the Fiat is equal in other dimensions, and has a comparatively huge rear seat. That upright stance gives the game up. The Civic has 71.2 total cubic feet of interior space compared to the 500’s 75.5. Not a huge boost until you realize the Fiat is 11 inches shorter on a 3.6 inch smaller wheelbase.
The striking thing to me is that the Fiat actually looks big in comparison to the Civic. The Fiat 500 is one of the smallest cars you can buy in the US today. They look absolutely tiny in traffic next to all the CUVs and trucks on the road. In it’s day the Civic was a small car too, sure, but it didn’t seem unusually small. There were enough other cars of similar size that they didn’t seem [i]that[/i] tiny.
In the Civic’s case, I think it’s a combination of the low roofline and the low beltline that makes the car look light, while the high roof and high beltline combine to make the Fiat look pudgy.
I sure miss the days Honda put out such simple, great looking cars.
had the CRX back then (loved that car), but man… that Civic hatch is still one crisp, good-looking car.
Yeah, I know… apples & oranges, but… the Honda blows that Fiat outta the water in just style alone.
“Then and now” small, sporty hatchback. Well, “then” sold like hot cakes, came from a manufacturer with a stellar reputation, and was a truly refreshing design, without a hint of dubiousness. None of those attributes can be accorded to the chosen “now” version.
Honda Civic hold it’s value pretty well, the 500 loses value like a gambler in Biloxi.
In addition, the 500’s image leaves a little to be desired. It’s funny, as much as I dislike this new version, I really liked the boxy 500 of the 70s.
My understanding is Fiat may be leaving the US market; it just ain’t workin’ out.
The Fiat looks too much like a wart on wheels for my liking. Conversely, stylewise I think these were the best-looking Civics – I certainly wouldn’t want the current one.