The big American sedan is a dying breed. An article in autonews today suggests very strongly that 2018 is likely the last year for the big Chevy, due to plummeting sales. Only some 31k have been sold during the first half of 2017, meaning the average Chevy dealer has a customer for one every two months. The market for all sedans is of course in decline, but the big ones are showing the worst drops.
Hyundai just killed the similar-format Azera. And the betting is that the current Ford Taurus will be the last one. Folks who want something roomier than a Camry-Accord-Malibu invariably look to a big CUV or SUV. Even Buick is moving away from its big-car legacy, as this other article in autonews reports. The new Regal (Opel Insignia) will come as a hatchback and wagon, and the LaCrosse is the last old-school holdout. For how much longer? More than three-quarter’s of Buick sales are now CUVs, and it’s only climbing.
Ironically, the last Impala was the best one, at least in recent decades. It was a top rating from CR, and I gave it high marks in my rental car review of one. But I would never ask for a sedan that large at a rental counter; it was just offered to me. I’ve found Camrys to be more than roomy enough, with a very generous back seat, and that applies to much of its competition.
On this day at CC where several old-school GM big cars are on parade, including the Impala SS, I suspect more than a few of you will mourn the loss of the Impala. Me? As nice a car as it was, I have no use for mega-sedans. And it seems like most of the market agrees, although I don’t have any use for big CUVs either, obviously.
This is where I struggle. From a platform standpoint
No Impala = no Lacrosse & no XTS (but the Lacrosse was just updated!)
No Avalon (rumor) = no ES 350 (likely very profitable for Lexus)
Are the automakers willing to kill all of these vehicles?
I would have included “No Taurus = no Explorer” but the Explorer sells enough on its own to support a standalone platform.
I also assume no Azera = no Cadenza but I doubt anyone will notice, each of them selling so few copies.
Isn’t the ES 350 on the Camry platform? If so, should be OK.
Wonder what happens with the big Mopars? They have a point of difference being RWD, but the platform – and styling – are aging fast. Plus the folks at FCA seem determined to make Ram and Jeep the surviving brands.
Paul, thanks for the heads-up. Just passed this to my dad, who’s thinking of finally replacing his ’03 300M (with all of 35K on the odometer). He was thinking LaCrosse, but the better value is here.
ES 350 is on the longer wheelbase of the Avalon.
It will eventually be switched to the Camry platform.
The ES series is on the Camry platform, ALWAYS has been.
WHY would it ever have switched to the floaty larger Avalon??
Infiniti wanted to get away from FWD altogether, which is why the last platform was the 2004 I30/I35.
Lexus wanted to follow suit, but the ES series was a good seller, so why cancel a good thing? 😉
Wrong.
The ES did indeed switch to the Avalon platform for the current generation.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/04/2013-lexus-es-swaps-camry-for-avalon-platform-to-improve-global-appeal.html
That being said, the Avalon and Camry share a lot under the skin anyway.
Okay, Willy…I stand corrected.
The ES series has been so bland for the past three generations, for me to have even noticed, Toyota would even bother to update let alone switch the platform.
So, without a Lexus counterpart, since the ES250, in 1989 or 1990?…the Camry is now a stand alone platform?
Don’t call me Willy.
Camry has moved to the new Toyota New Global Architecture, which has also been scaled down to include the new Prius and C-HR. It’s quite flexible.
Considering the new Camry has the same width and wheelbase length as the Avalon and is only 3 inches shorter, I don’t see much of a future for the Avalon. The current Avalon was quite a change for the nameplate with bolder styling inside and out and a firmer ride. Either Toyota will go even wilder or they’ll kill it.
I guess, Will’s not good, either?
Seriously, since the new Camry is coming out this fall, it does look wider, with a more sloped C pillar and trunk line.
I guess Toyota wants it to have more international flair and appeal, to more markets.
Any chance, we’ll ever see a revised Solara coupe?
Maybe this time with AWD and a turbocharged option, or even a hybrid version?
Toyota has already confirmed a new Avalon. Last man standing, in more ways than one? Ironic too, that Toyota would end up with the ultimate old-person-mobile.
Isn’t the Highlander off the Camry platform too? I can’t remember if the RAV4 is too, but I think that is the Corolla
Wonder what happens with the big Mopars? They have a point of difference being RWD,
Rumor mill has consistently said the Charger is going to the Alfa Giulia platform, while the 300’s future is in doubt.
I wonder if it’s possible to decontent a Giulia enough to drop the price $10K to Charger territory.
I’ve heard rumors that the 300 and Charger will move to the front-wheel drive Chrysler Pacifica minivan chassis. It might work, but it is not exactly inspiring.
Can you imagine what we would have said in 1966 if someone predicted that in 50-something years the Dodge Charger would be based on the Alfa Giulia platform? That’s even stranger than the end of the Impala …
Can you imagine what we would have said in 1966 if someone predicted that in 50-something years the Dodge Charger would be based on the Alfa Giulia platform?
It’s been that kind of a half century. Chrysler going bankrupt might not have surprised some people in the mid 60s, but GM bankrupt? GM struggling to hang on to a 17% market share, when they used to hold well over 50%?
I have seen maps of big three market share in different regions of the country. There are places on the west coast and northeast where the big three combined, only hold 30% of the market.
In all of “It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World”, how many non-US cars did we see, outside of the two comics in the VW Bug?
Dman, they’d probably be amazed that in 40 something years the Charger would be using cast-off Mercedes Benz suspensions as well. Chrysler certainly has had an interesting half century, to say the least.
Going to the Alfa Giulia platform? LOL. Out of the frying pan and into the fire, reliability-wise.
You guys are complaining that the Charger may go to the Alfa Guilia platform?
Why? At least, it’s sporty, handles like a performance car should, AND at least it’s RWD.
There was a time, when the ONLY Dodge Charger, you could get was, sadly, a 4 banger…on top of that, FWD.
You guys forget about this turd? My dad owned one, what a POS that was.
I seriously doubt FCA will remain a going concern long enough for the next-gen Charger to be introduced.
This was reported from allpar in a thread discussing GM’s dwindling sedan sales. To be fair, FCA has already cancelled their compact/intermediate sedans (Dart & 200). So there could perhaps be some sales increases to Charger /300 due to lack of any midsizer. Although who would have ever expected Chrysler to beat GM at the big sedan game?
May
7,518 Chargers sold
3,907 300s sold
3,269 Impalas sold
3,183 LaCrosse sold
778 XTS sold
June
6,379 Chargers sold
5,355 300s sold
2,808 Impalas sold
2,157 LaCrosse sold
1,000 XTS sold
I wonder how many of those Chargers went to police agencies. For that matter, what the trim level/engine breakdown was – if you want a musclecar sedan, the Charger is it.
The new Traverse/Acadia/Enclave are all based on the platform that underpins the Lacrosse and Impala (and Malibu), so there is more than enough sales to compensate for the cancellation of all those sedans.
Ditto for the Avalon, which itself is just an extended Camry at this point. The Highlander and RX350 will more than make up for those cars.
Just because one model on a particular platform is cancelled does not mean that the entire platform and everything else it spawns are cancelled too. Some Impala intenders will be switched to Malibu, some perhaps across the showroom to a LaCrosse. And likely many others to Equinox or Traverse or whatever else fits inbetween there.
Was walking thru a parking lot with my wife and said, “Wow, look at that new Impala. Sharp looking car.”
Except when we got up to it, it said Malibu on the back. Didn’t realize they got so big.
I’ll bet a lot of folks did what you did, that is mistake a Malibu for an Impala. It’s what happens when automakers insist on building all their cars with the exact same look. I often confuse a Fusion and a Focus….unless the Focus is a hatchback.
It is same with Audi for about a decade. It was impossible to tell A4, A6, and A8 apart without long glance or close look.
Now, it’s even harder to tell the current generation of C-Class and E-Class apart…
LOL
+1
That’s what I say about the 2017 Corolla, Elantra and Civic.
Every one of those “former” small sedans, has become midsized??
The new ones look like they could swallow whole the first few generations of Camry, Sonata and Accord.
It’s like the Corolla, Elantra and Civic began as young, petite, tiny, women…Who go to their 30 year reunion and have turned into 500lb fat slobs. 😀
X2. I’m reminded of this every time I park my current Mazda 3 next to a 626 or a 323.
I would miss the big sedan format. After years of driving vans, SUVs and hatchbacks, I appreciate the roomy sedan, where the luggage is not inside the car with you, and one is not driving a truck. It’s definitely nostalgic, though, especially in a market full of me-too CUVs.
CUVs are the station wagon of today. Large utilitarian vehicles based on a car. We have mini storage places everywhere. We need our extra space… not really. But I did need a CUV/wagon vehicle. Didn’t really want a Truck-based SUV and where are the station wagons? Ford Flex? Close. I like but my wife doesn’t.
I had a 2001 Olds Aurora. Loved it. but needed something a little more truck-like to haul the recyclables off (we live out in the sticks); haul my son’s musical equipment occasionally, Lowe’s trips, etc. Didn’t want a pick-up truck or minivan, either. So a crossover is what I needed that was available. I would rather have had a Fairlane wagon or Vista Cruiser. I would not buy a Euro wagon – small town living has taught me to not buy something that can’t be serviced locally.
At my age, I will probably never own all the cars I want – Charger or Challenger would top that list. And they will probably be gone soon too.
It is a shame really, that sedans and “cars” are going away so we can all drive “pods”. But we are buying CUVs and they make CUVs – which came first the chicken or the egg? All the cars look so much alike with no personality anymore, does it really matter whose badge is on the hood? My wife was talking to a friend and complimenting her new…. Looks at wheel center badge…. NISSAN. I had no idea what it was standing that close either. Coulda been any of the makes. Chevy wants to sell cars like Camry, so they make them more Camry-like. And so it goes that everything is the same. Even the CUVs all look very similar – two basic roof and window profiles for all of them.
And the more CUVs are bought, the more will sell. And the more will be made and designed. But as more large SUV/CUVs are made, you have to fight the traffic battle with a similar vehicle. You get tired of being in traffic behind something you can’t see over/under or around. Id rather have a dual sport motorcycle than a cruiser myself, because they are taller and more nimble in traffic. Riding/driving for fun is gone for me now. I lve cars, but my car is a tool. In every definition of the word. I can’t afford a CC to play with right now.
So the sedan may be going away. Sad days. Circular though? Station wagons used to be very popular. Now CUVs are. Maybe someday, the “car” [sedan] will make a comeback.
I am one of “those people”. I like big sedans and think it will be a shame if this is killed, but will probably never buy a new one. The Mrs. prefers to sit up higher, which means the next car may be a CUV. I also prefer the utility and ability to carry more people and/or cargo when the situation demands.
Right now I have a small sporty hatchback, a minivan and a sporty roadster – for two of us. I have no idea what needs a big sedan meets at my house (at least meets strongly enough to sacrifice one of the current vehicles.)
Lots of Mrs.-es like to sit up higher. My wife is one of them. Currently she drives a sedan but dreams of her next CUV.
I’m not enamored. She can have one if she wants, but I won’t enjoy driving it.
When EVERYONE drives a pickup or SUV, and EVERYONE sits higher, can anyone see past the vehicles around them? What’s the advantage?
Being able to get in and out easily. That is the real advantage I hear from friends and family. I have no problem, even in my mid-sixties, but I am a small guy and still agile. Sleek, aerodynamic rooflines make most modern sedans a pain for the ageing, and bigger, population.
Can’t even see through and ahead of them in traffic either, still being wrongfully classified as light trucks they all have dark tinted glass.
When EVERYONE drives a pickup or SUV, and EVERYONE sits higher, can anyone see past the vehicles around them? What’s the advantage?
Remember the story of Yertle the Turtle?
When all the normal passenger cars, that the SUV drivers like to feel superior and dominating over, are gone, what will they see? Pickups that are even taller then their SUV.
“My SUV must be higher” they will demand, “higher than thee”
And we remember what happened to the turtle king in the frame after this one.
Sometimes it’s a case of be careful what you ask for. My wife is very short, and when we had to replace our Mazda5 with a CX-5 she was uncomfortable sitting so high for several weeks. This leads me to question her desire for either a Jeep or a pickup.
Personally I have no use for a large sedan, my needs are far better served with a small wagon or van like the Mazda5 since I need a long roofline for things like tandem bicycles and kayaks. The CX-5 was a compromise of necessity because we had no car, very little cash and Mazda had a cheap lease deal.While it is less efficiently packaged than the the Tardis like Mazda5 the AWD and the better stereo are reasonable compromises.
Personally, I think this may be (and hopefully is) a temporary thing. Not everyone loves to drive a big SUV/CUV around. And not everyone needs AWD/4WD either. Sometimes if something is taken away from consumers they want it back. Hopefully it will make a comeback if taken away from us. Time will tell.
As I sit here, I am looking out the window and seeing our current generation Highlander and our last generation MB GL450 side-by-side and noticing how they are fairly similarly sized. Since my wife has been out of town for the last couple of weeks I’ve been switching off between them and can’t help but notice how very different they drive. One (the Highlander) feels very light with most operational aspects a bit overboosted, perhaps even disconcertingly so right after switching. The other (GL450) feels very heavy and solid and maybe even a bit ponderous, again mainly right after switching. However drive each of them for a day or two and each feels just fine in isolation, it is only when switching back and forth that you really find the differences to be stark.
I guess my point is that even among SUV/CUV’s they do not all feel the same with quite large differences between the models/manufacturers. And I don’t believe that for the most part any of them drive any “worse” than an Impala or other larger sedan, at least at the 2-3/10’s that most of these sedans are driven anyway in the real world. I had a sedan semi-recently (300C V8 AWD). Did I like it? Yes, it was a good car. Do I miss it? No, not particularly. Am I getting the itch for something else? Yes, it’s there (again) but it is very unlikely that I will choose a sedan unless my circumstances change or I really fall into something.
And not everyone needs AWD/4WD either.
Look at the TV ads. Outside of Jeep, SUVs are shown driving on clear, dry, paved, city streets. AWD has nothing to do with it, except, by having AWD, an SUV is classified as a truck under the CAFE regs, and being classified as a truck means it has a lower, easier to meet, fuel efficiency standard.
Amen to that, thang! Personally I wouldn’t be caught dead in a CUV, let alone purchase one. I’m a sedan man, as well as a Van lover and I STILL have a 1969 Plymouth Sport Fury convertible I’ll never part with… I’ve a Mercedes Metris dormobile, and that’s it for me (Except the Fiat 124 Spyder and forthcoming resurrected Plymouth [not Dodge] Barracuda!) I’ve faith in the sedan, and you shan’t quit about them neither….
X2. I never saw the point in paying MORE for what is a heavier (and hence less economical), worse handling and braking car. And I could have an excuse on account of my bad back. No thanks.
CUVs will eventually become uncool. Some people don’t want to drive what they grew up in. When minivans came out, nobody wanted station wagons. When SUVs came out, nobody wanted minivans. When CUVs came out nobody wanted SUVs.
I’m not a fan of the crossover craze, especially as it shoves some excellent cars off the market. I like a sedan for the lower center of gravity that delivers better handling and an actual trunk.
My wife isn’t particularly tall, and she likes the higher seating position and visibility of her 2012 Outback. She feels like she’s in a hole whenever she drives my 2010 CTS. The Outback drives pretty well for a tall station wagon (which is really what most crossovers are), and the amount of cargo room it offers is handy on trips, so I do understand the appeal. They just don’t appeal to me.
I mourned it in 1996. I don’t consider the 2000-2013 a real Impala (it’s a Lumina) so the current generation is simply a short lived revival. The greater death of the full size sedan is a different story, but truth be told the only one I’m prepared to mourn would be the LX Charger, because of it’s layout and powertrain, the rest all seem like slightly inflated midsize sedans.
I’m surprised that it’s on the chopping block though, they’re pretty popular here in the Chicago area, vastly outnumbering the catfish styled Malibu.
At the other end of the market, rumors today point to Ford cancelling the Fiesta for North America. The new generation exists only as a hatchback, so that will be one less sedan available for sale. At this point any mainstream sedan that sells less than 60k annually is at risk of being cancelled.
As much as I loved my 2012 Fiesta hatch for the time I had it, I did keep wishing I had spent the extra $1000 for the 2012 Focus hatch the dealer had also. Both were well equipped and had a stick shift.
I actually don’t see a market for the Fiesta at Ford, those that want a tiny hatch buy a Honda Fit and others seem to find that the Focus is much more practical for them.
I don’t understand why Chevy sells the Spark and the Sonic, I think the Spark is a bit too small to be considered as viable 365 days a year transportation. Yet, either A LOT of Spark rentals are on the road, or it has eaten heavily into Sonic sales as I see more Sparks than Sonics on the road in northern Florida.
I haven’t driven either (but have sat in both) and I think the Spark is likely fine as “transportation”, but not necessarily for people with a real daily commute of any length. But if I was fully retired or had no need to schlep multiple people with me constantly or didn’t drive it every single day and it was a bit cheaper then it makes sense. Especially the electric version and even more especially if there is a well-maintained older beast of a CC-like-nature in the garage for those long road trips to the relatives that happen maybe twice a year.
I don’t understand why Chevy sells the Spark and the Sonic,
The Detroit News article that named the future of the Impy, LaCrosse and several other passenger cars as “under review” also named the Sonic.
If the Spark were pulled from the US market, it would not be the end of the world for it’s plant as it’s built in Korea and is sold in a variety of markets.
If the Sonic were cancelled, the Orion plant would not be viable as it’s only other product is the Bolt. GM management just spent a few hundred million putting the Bolt into Orion, so would not want to flush that investment by closing the plant.
For the last several weeks, the Spark has been under a safety related “stop sale” order. With the Spark off the market, Sonic sales have perked up significantly. This has not missed the notice of GM honchos.
My theory is the Spark stop sale is being used as a marketing test. If most people who come in the store for a Spark find they can’t get one, shrug and buy a Sonic instead, the Spark gets spiked instead of the Sonic, to save the GM brass that put the Bolt in Orion being embarrassed.
I think the reason why we get the Spark and the Sonic is a reaction to the combination of gasoline prices from 9 years ago, the bankruptcy and the admonition of folks to be more “like Toyota”. Since the reboot, Chevrolet Division has matched Toyota Division model for model, or real close to it. Of course, there’s no direct competitor for things like the Camaro, Corvette and some of the HD trucks. But, when it comes to people movers, Chevy was battling Toyota segment for segment.
Last year I was entertaining the idea of getting a new (or newer) car; my wife complained she never gets to choose the car. (Which is not true, but I did choose our current ride, which she’s not a big fan of). I thought, let’s see what she likes this time around. Besides the Fiat 500L, she was interested in a Sonic RS. For a commuter/all around compact car, it’s really not too bad.
I think if the Spark were to leave the USDM, the Sonic would have it covered. Most US folks really don’t like their cars that small.
I think the reason why we get the Spark and the Sonic is a reaction to the combination of gasoline prices from 9 years ago, the bankruptcy and the admonition of folks to be more “like Toyota”.
iirc, there was a deal as part of the bail out that GM would make “fuel efficient” cars in the US. This was only a year after the summer of $4 gas, so it seemed like a good idea at the time. GM probably figured importing the Spark was a good idea, for the same reason. iirc, a factor in handing a big chunk of Chrysler to Fiat for free was the same idea, that Fiat would help Chrysler make fuel efficient cars, which had been absent from Chrysler’s line for several years.
As Paul says, YTD, the Trax has been outselling the Sonic 36,931 to 17,958, with the Spark moving another 9,208. However, with the stop sale on the Spark, in June they moved 6,550 Sonics vs 5,887 Trax.
For the heck of it, the YTD number for the Encore is 42,331, with 6,563 sold in June.
Another variable is GM Korea seems to like losing money. The nattering for some time is that, once the Opel deal and the other sales and shut downs announced earlier this year are put to bed, Korea is up for the chop. Looking at local dealer stock, All the Sparks, all the Encores and maybe a third of the Trax in stock are built in Korea.
A shut down of GM Korea would be the end of the Spark as it appears to only be built there. It would be appealing to think that GM would move Encore production into Orion Assembly to improve the run rate of the plant, but reality says the source would simply be shifted to China or Mexico.
The Sonic doesn’t sell well because its platform mate the Trax (CUV) is outselling it by a huge margin. There is no CUV version of the Spark (yet).
Chevy is doing the CUV version of the Spark *right*. It’s called the Spark Activ and it’s literally just flares and cladding (plus roof rails).
Since all these small crossovers are very much just lifted hatchbacks anyway, I really wish automakers wouldn’t waste cash on distinctive body sheetmetal for them and then withdraw the unlifted version because it’s not profitable – it would be if they’d leveraged the small-CUV popularity, tooled up one five-door shell and offered it in a volume tall ride height and a lower one to serve the high-MPG and performance niches.
The Trax has just landed here rebadged as a Holden in usual GMH style.
At the other end of the market, rumors today point to Ford cancelling the Fiesta for North America.
iirc, when Ford introduced the new Fiesta in Europe, the spokesperson said something to the effect that the status of the Fiesta in the US will be announced later. That’s a pretty good hint it’s gone. Wonder what Ford will do with the Cuautitlán plant as the Fiesta is the only thing it makes?
I wonder about the Focus as well. With production consolidated in China, it would be very easy to pull an FCA, withdraw the Focus and entirely exit the US compact passenger car market.
Ford’s quarterly earnings report is due this week. The Q&A in the press conference is bound to be interesting.
Isn’t one of the big reasons that automakers are moving to modular components/platforms to make developing new models less costly? Toyota has the TNGA (Toyota New Global Architecture). VW has the MQB (something in German). Toyota is there. VW group is there. Can GM, Ford, and especially FCA get there? Are they trying? I’m asking, I don’t know. They can’t even develop their own transmissions anymore . . .
It takes a lot of money(and convincing the board of directors there will be a pay off) and engineering ability to do this so I’m guessing the weaker automakers are not going to be able do this and indulge in low volume specialty models if they cannot develop them in a cost effective matter.
So we’ll get to keep the Avalon and lose the Impala?
Modular platforms definitely lower the cost of developing new models, but if those models are performing poorly in a shrinking market segment, there is no reason to keep producing it. Cancelling a model also has the benefit of freeing up a plant to manufacture something else.
Right now we’re starting to see slow selling models in shrinking segments get cancelled. But compact and mid-size cars still move a lot of units, and most of the current ones on sale already sit on modular platforms, so they’ll probably survive.
Pieces like this just leave me wondering what the hell is wrong with me. Coming of driving age in the early 1980’s I was loathe to ever think of driving a large sedan, as the legacy of 70’s land yachts with their squeaks and rattles, poor handling and inefficient packaging made them absurd (not to mention no fun at all) in my book.
As I approach the big five-oh, and I recently came to possess a large American sedan of late 90’s vintage, I’ve come to really appreciate the format. And I’ve whispered to a few friends who I knew wouldn’t crumble into guffaws that I might really like a new Impala, as this generation really is one of the most attractive large sedans in some years, and having peeked into a few I was impressed by the overall look of quality. My secret desire to own a car model that I’d have put in the same category as Wonder bread and Ritz crackers for most of my time on the planet really had me worried that I was getting to “That Age”. Now reading that they’re going to stop making them because not enough people want them has me very concerned. Apparently I’m BEYOND “That Age”. Shit, I’m becoming a dinosaur already. And in a case of cruel irony, dinosaurs won’t even be powering cars for too much longer, let alone driving them. The struggle is real.
I had the same interests as you did when I started driving in the early ’80’s. I swore I would only ever drive interesting performance cars and sporty classics. I’d never drive any oldster-mobile, luxury car or boring car.
But I was wooed by serene luxury and comfort. I grew tired of firm suspensions, of noise and harshness. Performance is like a one – trick pony. How many times can you bang the gears or blaze through corners before it got boring?
I grew up and realized those oldsters knew what they were doing. luxury cars are easier to live with, and a well – rounded car is more livable on a long trip than some cramped road – rocket.
95% of the time you are rolling down the road mostly in a straight line and at a fairly constant speed. Why not do so in something as comfortable as possible?
I believe a large number of the older demographic (me!) who buy these cars are frugal people, and like to buy them slightly used and a lot cheaper. That means the market for new ones, which can be a bit expensive, is smaller than it ought to be. So quite a few of them go into fleets and rentals, which aren’t exactly the most profitable sales for such cars.
Now that I have found the nice, big cars, I don’t really want to go for anything else any more. On top of everything else is the safety factor, and these cars are safe. They also don’t get stolen much, and the insurance rates are pretty good. They are fairly complex vehicles, so buying older, high mileage ones is not so attractive. I’ll be sad when they aren’t made any more.
Well sorry I have to buck that trend. I’m 56 with a bad back but not prepared to forsake good handling and braking yet. My 2015 Mazda 3 is hard riding and not particularly refined but I’m good with that (it does have the best seat this side of a Recaro which does compensate for a lot).
Yes I’m in Europe where the only big US-made sedan is the Lancia Thema/Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger but the (older) American fun car I’m looking for now will have its suspension worked to get rid of any flabbiness.
I guess I’m just weird.
I started driving in the 80s, and I also told myself I’d never own a big American boat. I never have–no big Broughams or SUVs (though now I find that if I had the money and room, yes, I would like a 76 Cutlass Supreme and a 76 Buick Electra 225).
Today’s sportier cars have firm but gentle rides, are quiet, and devour the highway at HIGH speeds (traffic and law enforcement permitting).
Still, it’s interesting that now that the old “Big Three” have been beaten by the Asians, people want comfy cars….which is what the Big Three used to offer
“How many times can you bang the gears or blaze through corners before it got boring? ”
Or lose your license. Seems a lot of people these days think public roads are a race track. It’s almost impossible to legally get any tangible benefit out of sporty cars today. Most vehicles are pretty competent handlers with plenty of power, even pickups and vans.
The “I love the visibility from the higher seating” argument for CUVs is laughable. In a couple years when they dominate the road, nobody will be “see over” anything else! What’s next, Peterbilt-sized SUVs!? And of course automakers shot the segment in the foot by giving every sedan a ridiculously swoopy roofline that make entry and exit difficult and leaves a tiny trunk opening.
It’s all about the step-in height and chair-high seating. You don’t get that in a giant, truck-based, Suburban-class SUV – you have to climb onto a running board and then duck down almost as low as you would getting into an FR-S.
Suburbans have much taller door openings and still have chair-like tall seating compared to an FR-S. And have a great step-in height for 6’3″ guys like me.
4Runners still have car cabins with your legs out in front of you, but most all other SUVs are very chair-like.
Well you will always be able to see over snowbanks and small shrubs better. And the real key is they are a lot easier to get kids buckled in and out of.
Personally, I would hate to see one of the last automotive icons disappear, as I learned to drive in an Impala, and have owned three to date, not to mention a 1952 Chevy and a 1961 Bel-Air.
I like full-size cars!
Although if and when my current ride bites the dust, I wouldn’t have a need for another full-sized car due to my commuting days being over (thankfully!) and not having to run the highways anymore.
What would I replace my 2012 Impala with? I have no idea, for not much out there floats my boat other than a Malibu.
I can understand the flexibility of CUVs, but I really don’t like them. I must admit, however, Wifey’s 2015 CR-V gets far better mileage around town than my car, so who knows what the future holds?
It’s not like the Impala hasn’t gone away before. It was gone after 1985, came back briefly for 94-96, then went away for a few more years until 2000 where it showed up on a FWD platform. So perhaps it will be back again once the whole CUV craze finally ends. One can only hope.
Perhaps it’ll come back AS a CUV….heads would explode around here.
Is Chevy getting a version of the Regal TourX? That would make a nice Impala.
Is Chevy getting a version of the Regal TourX?
Considering that, at least for now, the new Regal is produced by Opel, in Germany, and Opel is being sold, I don’t see a long life for the Regal. The Verano is gone, and the LaCrosse was among the models reported to be “under review” a couple days ago.
That could leave Buick with nothing but SUVs.
I believe there’s a marketing agreement for at least the full design cycle. Beyond that, PSA has no other presence in the US market which could cut either way.
‘If’ the Regal Wagon & Hatchback versions sell, probably Malibu would add the wagon & hatch & Regal will share their next iteration. The Regal & Malibu (Impala,Lacrosse and XTS) are related based on the same Epsilon 2 platform (on a stretched version called Super Epsilon2) now called E2XX.
The Regal now ‘is’ an Insignia with a different name. The next gen will be a platform mate of Malibu as it is now. It will just cost more to develop its own sheet metal.
It is sad that the fullsize sedan is on the ropes. But I can see why CUV’s are so popular.
Last Sat, I was over at my folks house helping them to load up their car for their annual trip to Canada. my dad should not be lifting heavy things in his condition. They have a 2009 Ford Taurus (think Ford Five Hundred with more fake wood/chrome and a bigger engine) and while it is hella roomy inside and very comfy to drive/ride in (it is the only car I have not banged my head trying to get in or out) the trunk is an issue. My folks back into their space so that the trunk is facing the sidewalk. The trunk is very roomy, however while standing on a sidewalk you have to awkwardly bend over to reach in to put things in or lift them out.
With a minivan or CUV or their 2003 Mercury Sable wagon, you can get things out of the back in a more natural position. I actually have enjoyed this ability with my $500 Pontiac Trans Sport. Plus as I have reached 40 years of age and the waist line has expanded a bit, I actually enjoy not having to bend down to get into my car (like I did in the car I replaced with the van)
Well, the platform paid for itself via the Cadillac XTS and the Lucerne as well as the Impala. It really is a shame, and another prime example of GM getting it right and then throwing in the towel. Oddly, when you think that the XTS is the best selling sedan in the Cadillac lineup, it speaks volumes both for the platform and for GM as a whole. The XTS will be phased out, along with the Impala, and the Lucerne is a dead car driving. The target consumer for these large sedans are US based, buyers of American, and while aging, they while aren’t dead yet. Toyota will keep selling Avalons to this group until they finally die out. What a shame for GM to concede.
Quite interesting.
Perhaps I’m (for once) in the right place at the right time as I shall be receiving a 2018 Impala as my assigned car at work. It looks like I might be getting the last of a dying breed.
I had a choice between a Fusion, a Taurus, and an Impala. The Fusion was priced $3000 less than the Taurus with the Impala $3000 more than the Taurus. However, with the advent of the 2018 models, no Ford dealer was extending contract pricing to the 2018 Taurus, so I had the choice of the Fusion or the Impala, whose price was now $3000 less, the same as the ’17 Taurus.
Being allowed my preference (2.5 liter Fusion vs. 3.6 liter Impala) this Ford homey chose the Impala. It looks like I better enjoy it since it appears it may be the last of a breed, a breed in which it appears the price is being dropped to keep the line running a while longer.
So that pretty much shows that the AN article is incorrect unless they meant to say that the upcoming year will be the last. Now I guess it is possible that the dealer that your organization buys their Chevys from is just clueless and has agreed to sell you something he can’t get. Highly unlikely though because you don’t get and keep contracts like that unless you know what you are doing and have the actual order sheet, which in this case points to a new lower price point at least for fleet models.
Despite the fact that a dealer has accepted an order for a 2018 I was already going to say that the article is probably wrong. It is just too new to scrap a vehicle who’s production line is going to be running other platform mates. It doesn’t make sense to loose those potential sales when it costs so little to keep the lines that produce the Chevy specific items. Even if they shift a few potential customers to the Caddy they are still looking at making the line less profitable rather than improving it.
The referenced article does not say that there will not be a 2018 Impala. It does suggest that it may not be around much longer but a specific definition of “not much longer” isn’t offered.
Chevrolet.com still allows you to “build and price” a 2018 Impala so I’m guessing Jason will get his car and whoever else wants one can have one as well. For a bit longer at least…
P.S. Jason – will this be the first brand new fleet vehicle you’ve been assigned?
It does suggest that it may not be around much longer but a specific definition of “not much longer” isn’t offered.
I remember the late 70s when GM was about to downsize it’s “full sized” sedans. Just before the smaller models came out, they ran two near identical ads for different brands. Each ad had the car sitting out in a field while a guy in jeans, flannel shirt and down vest is reminding people it was their “last chance to get a real full sized car”.
Think maybe all this publicity GM sparked with the press release is intended to panic people into grabbing a LaCrosse or Impy right now, before they miss the “opportunity”?
The idea of people being panicked into buying a 2018 LaCrosse or Impala is silly.
The general population turned over cars much more frequently in the 70s and bought a higher percentage of new cars when they did so. They were genuinely concerned about what their next cars would be like, due to CAFE regulations and emission controls. Regardless of what you were driving, you were probably thinking about what your next car would be.
No, I have previously been assigned a new ’04 Dodge Stratus, an ’05 Impala, and an ’09 Impala.
The Stratus had a 2.7; I put 14k on it and swapped it for a 5 year old Taurus if that tells you anything.
The ’05 wasn’t too bad but the steering wheel had a freakishly large diameter.
The ’09 was great and was purchased with the gear selector on the column so I didn’t have that damn console.
I put about 30k on each of the Impalas before a shuffle or I took a different position.
Obviously, they meant after the 2018 MY, which is already as good as here. Things don’t get cancelled that quickly. One year is about what it takes. There are commitments with suppliers, etc.
The platform mate issue is largely irrelevant. There’s a lot more to a specific car than a few shared chassis parts. There’s marketing costs, parts distribution, pricing from suppliers is based on volumes, etc. If Chevy sees the Impala’s sales continuing to tank, it makes sense to pull the plug and in the process presumably shore up LaCrosse XTS sales.
Same choice I’d have made. Earlier this year, while looking at slightly used models, I considered a ’13 Impala with about 35k miles. Nice-looking car, in black with 18″ cast wheels and slightly tinted windows. Great engine–that 3.6 has plenty of power and, by all accounts, has very few flaws. It can even pull 30 MPG highway, which was my lower cutoff. While the test drive was shorter than I would have preferred, the only complaint I had was that it felt kind of like the big car it was. Handling wasn’t bad though and the ride was quite comfortable. Plus it was loaded–sunroof, leather, remote start, great stereo, the works. What stopped me? I couldn’t get past that interior. Cheesy fake wood, cartoonish steering wheel, and a dash that gave me bad flashbacks to the ’00 Alero my wife owned. Really disappointing as it ticked all the other boxes. The new one seems to have solved that interior dilemma.
I ended up with a ’13 2.5 Fusion. More to come on that once I write up a COAL after sufficient time has passed, but I’m not entirely convinced I made the right choice.
If a CUV is popular enough that its platform is built at giant scale, and enough of a sedan on that platform could be built, we might get to have some sedans in the future. But notice the direction of the platform sharing – opposite of today.
Once you put bucket seats and a giant console in the front row of a full-sized sedan, what real advantages are there compared to a mid-size? I’ve driven Tauruses and Fusions, and the Taurus isn’t any more comfortable for the driver. Both are five-passenger cars, and both have plenty of rear-seat legroom. The Taurus has a bigger trunk, but not by a huge amount. So unless you’re riding in the middle of the back seat, the extra size (and worse fuel mileage) doesn’t translate into big advantages in terms of comfort or capacity. I don’t have recent experience with Camry/Avalon or Malibu/Impala comparisons, but I would think they’re probably similar.
“I don’t have recent experience with Camry/Avalon or Malibu/Impala comparisons, but I would think they’re probably similar.”
In the case of both, the differences are marginal in nearly all respects. Rear legroom for all four are about one and a half inches from one another, with the larger two cars having the most. The Avalon does have a slight advantage in shoulder room to the Camry (while being fractionally narrower externally, no less). In the Impala’s case, it actually has less shoulder room than the Malibu. It does have about 4 inches more front legroom, and 3 extra cubic feet of trunk space, however.
I wouldn’t call 4 inches of front legroom marginal. That’s the most important measurement for me and the loss of it is a dealbreaker.
That’s a market I hadn’t thought of. Full sized cars do make a difference if the seat doesn’t move back far enough for you in a mid-sizer. But for those of us within 2 standard deviations of mean height, the front-seat tracks in a Fusion/Camry/Malibu/Altima are plenty long.
Maybe VW needs to bring back the Rabbit to sell to tall folks:
Well my mind has been made up. My 91 year old father wants to sell his 2004 burgundy Le Sabre with 42,000 miles for his future funeral expenses. I know a little morbid but he thinks ahead since being a Vet he has to only take care of the first half of things. All he wants is $3K. Nice car, lots of room, real comfortable on a long drive to AZ. Not that I need a 10th car but I think I will buy his pride and joy last car from him as was my first car bought from him.
I’m going to give you the thumbs-up on this line of thought. I’m currently driving my grandfather’s ’99 300M, his final car, purchased new as the last in a line of new Chryslers bought every 3 years since before I was born. I’ll probably have just about 70,000 miles on it by the end of ’17. It’s not anything I would have considered buying for myself, but it is supremely comfortable, drives and handles impeccably on the highway, and gives me an overall comforting feeling, just because something feels “right” about making life’s longer journeys in a “legacy vehicle”. So do it. Chances are you won’t regret it.
The third line suggests that there are around 10,000 Chevy dealers, I’m not sure if you are including dealers outside the US but I don’t think there are that many. The US has about 3000 Chevy dealers, I don’t believe there are 7,000 more around the world.
31,000 sold in 6 months divided by 3 per dealer (1 sold every other month per dealer over 6 months) = 10333 dealers. Did you mean approximately two sold per month per dealer which would be 12 per dealer which works better if there are around 3000 dealers?
That’s straight from the AN article. I wouldn’t put it past them to screw up the arithmetic.
Also, we don’t know what percentage of these are actually retail vs. fleet.
Automotive News may have updated their article, but they now cite total 2017 1st half Impala sales at 31,312 — and of those, retail sales were 10,707. So only one-third of sales went to non-fleet customers.
The rate of decline is also pretty shocking, with 2017 retail (non-fleet) sales off by 57% from last year.
I don’t blame GM for abandoning the market given those figures, but from a consumer’s standpoint, less choice equals more boredom. It’s increasingly hard to find any new car that I look at any differently than a household appliance.
Ah yes, once the fleet sales are broken out it all makes sense assuming fleet means “rental” if those bypass a dealer entirely. A “fleet” sale to for example Jason’s organization for his new car would still be a car sold by a dealer, right?
But yes I recognize that I am starting to be pedantic with this line of thought. 10707 sales to Bob and Martha Public is indeed one every couple of months per US dealer. Thanks for clearing that up!
Less choice may indeed equal more boredom, but with those figures, it does suggest that the public already considers this particular choice to be boring, or at least not compelling enough to vote for with their wallets. Maybe the cancellation of this (and others) will not just result in less choices, but maybe production capacity to release the new 2020 GottaHaveItWhyDidntAnyoneThinkOfThisBefore that hasn’t been seen yet. Although I doubt it.
I think in sales terms, “fleet” refers to any bulk purchaser of vehicles, whether public or private organizations. I know that manufacturers have some criteria that an organization needs to fulfill to achieve fleet status, but rental agencies, large corporations, state & local governments, would all qualify.
(I remember looking that up several years ago when Crown Victorias were sold only to “fleets”… I sadly determined that my household would not qualify as a fleet purchaser.)
All fleet sales, not matter how large or small, must be funneled through a dealer, as the manufacturers are not allowed to make direct sales (except Tesla, in most states).
This has been bugging me, so I had to look it up. GM defines a fleet as:
“any company which has purchased or leased 5 or more new cars and/or trucks (any combination of vehicle manufacturers) solely for business use in its operation within the last 12 months or that currently owns or leases 15 or more cars and trucks used in its company service.”
Public entities (cities, counties, school districts, etc.) seem to qualify through another part of the Fleet program, since their purchases are typically part of a public bid process.
Certain (perhaps most) GM dealers are fleet authorized, meaning that they can funnel fleet sales. There are different classifications of fleet dealers — they are searchable here:
http://www.gmfleet.com/locate-a-dealer.html
But I suspect in their sales tabulations, all fleet/municipal sales are counted separate from retail customer sales, even though they all go through the dealer network to some extent or another.
Fleet sales normally aren’t broken out in sales stats, unless it’s clearly spelled out as a subcategory. GM has taken a lead in reducing fleet sales, so they make a point to break out retail sales. But sales are sales, overall.
Eric, I may have something to offer about what you have said.
Several years ago I had a conversation with a sales rep from John Deere (during my fleet gig). He said they get a tax break for every tractor sold or leased to a governmental agency. There had been an instance of a public agency wrecking a new John Deere tractor and the agency wanted to purchase it for repairs and make things right. The rep’s statement was they’d rather just manufacture a new one and get a second tax break.
As far as cars and pickups, during this same time period I had an order out for two new F-150s. The dealer (Paul’s right, all the fleet units go through a dealer although our dump trucks are purchased straight from International) lost my purchase order. I told him I’d happily take two from stock. He declined, stating I could purchase the same pickup cheaper than he could do to the nature of fleets, the type of bid, etc. You know what I do during the day, so you can piece it together from here. 🙂
I’m not sure the Impala is so interesting in any sense than it’s size such that it deserves a “non appliance” designation. It’s not a RWD Mopar, or a boxer engined Suburu. It’s a transverse V6 FWD steel monocoque 4-door sedan. It’s nice, it’s competitive, it’s a demonstration that GM can build a competitive full sizer that makes no apologies, but it is not “special” or “different”.
There is no particularly compelling reason beyond preference to buy it over a Cadenza, Avalon, Azera, or Maxima (the Taurus is approaching out dated).
GM had about 6000 dealers (all, not just chevy) at the time of bankruptcy. They wanted to cut back to about 4000, but where they are now is not clear. However, worldwide GM has 19,000 dealers of all kinds.
If the current Impala is discontinued, I would not be surprised to see some sort of Impala come back in the future.
“If the current Impala is discontinued, I would not be surprised to see some sort of Impala come back in the future.”
Perhaps as a trim level on the Traverse ?
It’s too bad the Impala is being discontinued just like other full-sized sedans. I’ve rented Impalas, LaCrosses, test drove Avalons and Azeras and find them to be very comfortable and quiet riding, especially on long trips.
But I needed more room than a sedan trunk and a large access opening that only a station wagon can offer. Trouble is, nobody makes station wagons anymore.
Bought a Toyota Venza, which seemed like a station wagon version of the Avalon. It isn’t as comfortable riding as the Avalon, thanks to the 19″ low-profile/wide tires and a stiff almost truck-like suspension. I’ve driven other CUVs and have similar complaints.
I guess I’m one of the few who likes soft cushioned rides, but do they have to build CUVs that sits up high and rides like a buckboard?
Another thing, I sure miss a bench seat; it was nice when the girlfriend or wife sits comfy-cozy close to you while driving. 😉
It’s like you said…who really needs a large FWD sedan anymore? V6 engines are going extinct on mainstream sedans in general, so there’s that. And, in the Impala’a case, the Malibu is 90% of the Impala for less money (although, last I checked, GM was offering 20% off MSRP for the Impala, which is crazy). And the Fusion is a *better* car than the Taurus, which will definitely be the last, although a CD4-based Taurus is being sold in China.
I see Dodge Chargers everywhere. There is a market for a distinctive, bad-a$$ full size sedan.
I see Dodge Chargers everywhere.
It probably helps that the Charger has been in production for 10 years with little change, so the build up of a decade of production on the road makes them look popular.
Last year, Dodge sold about 95,000 Chargers, about flat with the year before. FCA sold twice that many of each of the Grand Cherokee, Cherokee and Wrangler and nearly half a million Ram pickups.
I’m not too surprised that the Impala and other big sedans are being phased out. I think most current large cars are just scaled up mid size cars, so that the extra size is in the trunk, or in a little more width, while the interior is pretty much the same. One of my co workers has a newer Taurus, and says that it’s not any bigger inside than a Fusion. Most mid sizers will fit four comfortably and five in a pinch. I don’t think that too many parents want to seat their bigger kids three across. They would at one time have preferred a minivan and now would choose a CUV or an even bigger SUV. Even the biggest sedans can’t accommodate all the sports and leisure equipment carted around by middle class suburban families. And who would tow a boat or jet skis behind a sedan? As status symbols the big sedan is pretty passe, especially as an American model, a big Buick or Chevy doesn’t make much of an impression on anyone.
I came to the SUV party pretty late, (I was a minivan guy) and my twenty year old, fully loaded V8 Explorer surprised me by how handy and useful it is. Easy to enter and exit, load and unload, and compared to my long bed F150, much easier to park in crowded lots. It can do about 90% of what I use my truck for and everything that I use my sedans for. I imagine that a brand new model could suffice as my only vehicle.(If I had to limit myself!)
I love my long wheelbase Jaguar sedan because it is beautiful and drives great, but it isn’t any more practical than my Explorer, less in fact. My old XJS and Mustang are only useful if I don’t need to carry many passengers or stuff, which for me, is a lot of the time. Still I will lament the passing of the large sedan.
Mega sedan? A late model Impala? Sheesh.
A 2011 Lincoln TC at 215″ length or Town Car L at 221″ is a mega sedan. A 10th generation Impala at 201″ in length doesn’t really feel, look, nor qualify as a mega sedan. But maybe that’s just me.
I concur; I cannot think of a 2017 Impala in the category of ‘mega sedan’. It really isn’t. → A ‘mega-sedan’ would be a 1973 Imperial, a 1975 Oldsmobile 98 Regency, a 1976 Fleetwood, a ’76 Buick Electra 225, a ’79 Lincoln Continental, you get the idea. A ’17 Impala is a mid-sized car compared to those. At least the ’17 looks nice. Anyhow, don’t all model names of cars come to an end some time? I know the ‘Impala’ name has been brought back from the dead a couple times already.
Finally, I’ve noticed some model names of vehicles I’d never heard of before I read Paul’s article and the comments. An ‘AZERA’? That’s a new one to me. No idea what it is. A ‘SPARK’? Never heard of that, either. I read ‘Halwick”s post above and the name of the Toyota Venza was dropped. That’s a new one, too.
The Azera is a car made by Hyundai. In the USA it was considered the flagship car of Hyundai until the Genesis. It replaced the Hyundai XG in 2006. Unfortunately the Azera looks too much like the cheaper Sonata so it has not sold well (which is sad because like the XG, the Azera was a well made car that was a pleasure to drive on a daily commute)
Mega, as in interior space. Due to FWD, the Impala (and others like it) are more space efficient. Overall length is not the only criteria.
Ah, ok. Noted that interior space included.
I’ll be contrarian here: we are seeing the car / CUV come back to a certain desirable size. Just as the 57 Chevy was the right dimensions all around, how much difference in height is there between my Explorer and my grandparent’s ’50 Buick? And it’s more efficient, seats seven, shorter and probably narrower. I think many are missing the point that it’s not necessarily about height compared to other cars, it’s about space maximimization within a footprint vs. not wanting to drive a minivan. We HAVE come full circle…to KT Keller.
I’ve been saying the same thing for some ten years now. The longer, lower, wider craze was a historical aberration, and certainly not a very practical one.
Paul, what would you say that era entailed? On first guess I would say ‘58 with the new GM lineup to ‘77 with the B-Bodies. So about 20 years followed by a downsizing over-correction and another 20 to 25 years getting back to “right-sized.”
Edit: Actually, probably ‘57 with the Forward Look.
Well, it was creeping in, but the ’57 Chryslers are the obvious culprits. A slap against their own prior approach, which had left them behind. It’s hard to fight a mega-fad.
It’s no coincidence that VW sales exploded starting in 1955. There were plenty of Americans not in thrall of the trend. And it’s what forced the Big 3 to build compacts.
I have a hard time coping with the idea that a style popular for the majority of the time the automobile existed is merely an aberration. Practicality is one of those things that humans regularly sacrifice out of vanity, and I have no reason to believe we’ve only now come to our senses to stay on the straight and narrow.
It seems as though cars got consistently lower with each design cycle from the late ’20s (ie starting with the second generation to really sell well as closed sedans and coupes, and when road improvements started to take hold) to 1960 where they reached a practical limit at 52″-54″ OAH and leveled off until around the turn of the millennium.
It makes sense to me when taken out of a strictly-automotive context. Technologies tend to follow an early adopter – fashion – commodity curve. Not too many people are impressed these days by a top-notch hi-fi system like in the mid-70’s– they’re content to listen to streaming music on a much less hi-fi Bluetooth speaker. Cell phones went from yuppie status symbol to everyday technology in about 20 years. Smartphones, maybe 5-10 years.
It may just be cars are more in that commodity side of the curve these days. Any car, pretty much, should be relatively reliable and luxurious, so people buy what they want to an extent. However, the car is no longer the “it” technology- people don’t see it as the ultimate signifier of social or economic status as they once did- so the amount of thinking in the decision of what vehicle to purchase is dramatically lower. No one cares anymore that the ’59 Bulgemobile has extra chrome cladding and 5 more horsepower if you get the Blastfire.
The market has shown over the last 30 years or so that reliability, perceived excellence in engineering, and creature comforts matter much more to the average buyer than style, at least style in the classic American tradition. I would even go so far as to say even the image-conscious SUV boom was partly rooted in this market shift- the vehicles were sold because of their capabilities as opposed to a sense of aesthetic style. (Granted, it was capabilities 99% of all owners would never, ever, need to have.)
This shift isn’t too far off from the rise of the home computer (1977 being the key year with the Apple ][, TRS-80, and Commodore PET machines coming out, and the mid-90s with the rise of the consumer Internet) as the real focus of tech innovation. Not sure if that actually MEANS anything, but it’s kind of interesting.
That’s a pretty good argument really, but I’m not so sure automobiles will hit the commodity point point unless the emergence of autonomy leads to the end of private ownership. The appeal is far too broad as we speak, and even with the consolidation of segments we’re witnessing today, it doesn’t paint the full picture – there was only basically ONE segment in the bulgemobile era remember. – Being a true commodity implies a rather indifferent sense of ownership, you use it, you consume it in some way, and you dispose of it. Doesn’t matter what it is, where it came from, just as long as the price was right.
Even cars enthusiasts deride as disposable appliances really aren’t. People still pay a premium for the things, a premium easily cut in half on a used car that would suit their needs just fine, and they do still seek out specific traits, even if they are “boring” traits like safety and interior volume. Make no mistake, those boring traits ARE fashionable today, and DO project someone’s social and economic status. We consider ourselves very educated in the 21st century, and to be perceived as otherwise by driving something less safe and inefficient is as unfashionable as driving some old jalopy into your suburban sprawl neighborhood during the bulgemobile era. Smart as we are, that keeping up with the Joneses mentality is still there.
I gave up keeping up with the Joneses in 1983 when I bought my $625 71 Maverick.. which I still own!
XR7Matt,
Very good points, well stated. Different fashion, but fashion nonetheless. I don’t have any hard data in front of me (and if someone does, please correct me) but my gut instinct says the majority of hybrid owners do not break even on the initial purchase and maintenance costs of a hybrid as compared to a gas vehicle of comparable size and powertrain.
Everyday when I cross the Brooklyn Bridge, with its three narrow lanes in each direction, I find it hard to imagine what it must have been like after ’59 with such wide cars. There are streets in my neighborhood that wouldn’t have been passable with parking on both sides.
My Golf Sportwagon fis in just fine.
I’ve been looking into the numbers, and the fascinating thing is we’re buying a much higher % CUVs and SUVs than we ever bought station wagons back in the 60s and 70s, and that’s not even counting MPVs.
It hadn’t dawned on me until I read this article that I am one of those people who have made the sedan passe. Although I don’t buy new, for years my vehicles were mostly full size sedans. Then in 2009 I got a mini van. Five years later when it was time to replace it I got a Grand Cherokee. This spring I wanted something cheaper on gas and bought an L series Saturn sedan. From the start it was looked at as a “compromise”.
I don’t carry stuff all the time so I guess can borrow someone’s vehicle when I do need more space.
I guess I can learn to sit down in a car again instead of just “fall in”.
I needed to get better organized with my stuff anyway. I was lazy just throwing my crap in the back when I needed the back seat.
When it quickly turned out to be a four wheeled Titanic and had to be junked within weeks of purchase, l went for fast and cheap and ended up with another mini van.
I tell everyone it was just the best deal for the money… but I like having the convenience back and will probably get another one or SUV when it’s replaced.
So although I will miss the full size sedans like everyone else, the Saturn was probably the last vehicle with a trunk I will ever own.
The new Impala is a sharp design, but the generic tail lights suck. I know the production lights are cheaper to build, but on their flagship sedan can’t Chevy do a proper 6 tail light set up that DOESN’T wrap around? That was the Impala styling signature claim to fame. Why not use it to make it stand out from the look alike Malibu?
Hardboiled: I have asked this same question for many years re: Chevrolet and their signature round tail lights.
They’ve made half a**ed stabs at it over the years, but never had the guts to go full bore and have a distinctive , brand defining rear end once again.
To my mind the tail should at least be as dramatic as the front. One of the big disappointments for me with the initial 300 C: the lights needed more definition and distinct, brand defining design. What was there looked very Mitsubishi Galant and not worthy of the design, nor the statement made by the front end.
And have the same contempt for the lack of imagination with the generic tail lights used in some version from the Contour, Cavalier, Corolla, LaCrosse [or Lucerne], Chrysler 200, Ford Fusion and on and on. There’s no room to list them all.
I wonder if the Maxima could be next? For a couple of additionals bucks, you can check an Infiniti G37.
Maxima sales are actually very stable relative to the market; the redesigned 2016 saw a sales jump of over 50%, and is so far actually selling slightly better by 2% this year thru June.
Really?
How magic?
The G37 was discontinued years ago.
Only two years ago. For 2015, it was renamed Q40 and sold alongside the new Q50. But, unfortunately for Infiniti, the Q50 doesn’t seem to have gotten off to a good start with critics or buyers — sales are down quite a bit from the G37 days.
Still gone, just like the Passenger pigeon.
The Q40, was it’s new moniker, and it ended in 2015.
The Q50 is a totally different animal.
So…
And the Dodo bird. I’m still upset about the Dodo bird. Perhaps why I have a parrot.
The Q50 is the direct successor isn’t it?
Infinity dropping the G name was one of the dumbest and most confusing moves ever(as this comment tree confirms), way to dismantle equity of the brand’s only bonafide hit.
Never was wild about the ‘new’ Impala. A REAL full sizer should be RWD, have a split bench front seat, and a steering column mounted gearshift. Making these full sizers 5 passenger is probably pushing more older people like myself to look at CUVs or minivans, something I would never consider looking at-let alone buy. Of the many cars I`ve owned over the last 40 or so years, the big full size American cars were hands down the best.
If I were in the market for a mid level family sedan I would select a mechanically bulletproof and perfectly finished Camry or Accord. I’d even be tempted to consider a Hyundai or Kia. But a Chevy? No thanks. A Ford Fusion? A marginal consideration, but certainly not the bloated, harsh riding Taurus. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger? No way. Those relics saw their day 10 years ago. And besides the 300 and Charger are way too ghetto to be seen in.
“And besides the 300 and Charger are way too ghetto to be seen in.”
What is THAT supposed to mean?
Sad. Americana has long gone. In the past the american auto industry was by itself, an attraction, with its opulent and enormous products. I can´t stop admiring a Lincoln Mark, or more recently, a Continental or 80´s Town Car. Lots of details and care with the owner. Luxury and opulence at its best. Those cars looked like a thing out of this world. Where to find those behemoths, but USA? It´s hard for me to imagine a cruising night behind the wheel of a Prius, or any other today´s car. Today you go to Asia, South America, Africa, and the cars are all the same. All sad by itself with plain looks, poor gray interiors and ubiquitous black, white, gray or dark gray paint. All of them in a confuse mix of messages on its bodies, all sedan wanting to look like coupes, and every car wanting to be a SUV, with its bus driving position. Long done those true couches, with plenty of room and comfort. Maybe I am being very nostalgic, but the old days has definitely gone. Sad.
The END?
Please, don’t tell me that.
I’m still grieving over the END of the personal luxury coupe. 🙁
There was a long period, (1950’s-80’s), when these ruled the roadways. Sigh.
Kinda sentimental, right now, but is it too much to ask, to build a time machine?
I miss when the automotive scenery was a different place. 🙁
The Impala vanished around here in the late 60s much to the disappointment of many farmers in our district, the dealership my dad worked at took on GMs Holden brand to make up for the lack of locally assembled Chevs but try as they might the dedicated Chevrolet buyers would not buy the cheap rubbish Australian cars even though by 68 they had Chevy V8 engines,
Relief to that situation arrived in the early 70s with the Chevrolet 350 a rebadged and Chev drivetrain version of Holdens Statesman De ville built but not sold in Australia destined for the South African market and NZ, I can still hear my dad chuckling about being swamped with queries about delivery of proper Chevs and not the rubbish OZ Holdens yet other than the grilles they were hard to tell apart LOL they sold well though and were once a common sight here, now a rare sight, Later models you guys will miss were not officially sold here though some exist.
Why, would farmers even care about the cancellation of the Impala?
I thought they would be more miffed about cancelling the sales of a pickup truck or ute.
Just sounds kinda odd. 😛
Probably because they wanted a good, large, tough, comfortable car to drive around in. They may even have used it to tow a small stock trailer to the market. The 1960s Holdens were a good deal smaller/lighter.
FWIW the 350 was available in Australian Holdens in the early 1970s
Virtually only farmers had the overseas funds available to buy such cars big American cars were very expensive and hard to get and were considered luxury cars, yes even Chevrolets and basic Ford and Chrysler products,
The Chevrolet 350 was a repowered Statesman not available in Australia they had a Chevy engine transmission and rear axle as standard yes the Chevy 350 was optional only until the end of HQ production and the 307 and 327 were around before that but they were in Holdens not American cars and were simply considered inferior.
Things like pickups even the locally assembled Bedfords were almost impossible to obtain new farm trucks were often WW2 era relics still in use, new models went to govt depts and transport industry these shortages were goverment policy to keep track of money leaving the country, this and strict finance restrictions kept thousands of obsolete cars alive like Cuba but not quite as bad, then in the mid 80s policy went completely the other way tariffs were abolished and used Jap cars flooded in and most of the classics got scrapped the assembly and parts manufacture industry that was supported by local content rules evaporated, like what has just happened to Australia but on a smaller scale.
When I first saw this Impala I was intrigued; I learned it was front-wheel-drive, rolled my eyes, and moved on…
How dull.
Images of capable but lackluster W-bodies danced in my head.
I wonder how much they spent developing this, a car in a market that was in decline before it came to market.
Chrysler did even worse with the Pacifica. Not on the van itself, they did a great job on that, making it the class leader again. But not only did they put all that effort into a declining market, but by moving it upscale they abandoned their primary customer base. Sales are in the toilet and Chrysler is about out of time.
Some lessons are never learned, it seems.
“I wonder how much they spent developing this?”
Impala was based on design shared with Chinese products, too, so they made some cash back.
Still, times change, and products that internet “car guys” want to see, have to sell to paying customers.
To many of today’s buyers, a 4 door pickup/SUV is a “luxury car”.
The Taurus/Fusion comparison is a good one. Also the Malibu/Impala. There just isn’t much difference to justify the price swing. Also, when you compare the ride and room of big pickups to Impala/Fusion, the trucks play much more closely to older big sedans than the current cars themselves. Personally, I think the 50 series tires and 18 inch wheels are to blame…my business partner just bought a Lincoln MKZ and the 18s and performance tires make for a surprisingly noisy ride over some surfaces. Another friend’s King Ranch F150 rides on 70 series tires like a ’70s LTD!
Maybe the decline in standard sedan sales has come about because the subjects themselves have so markedly changed/been replaced by better options.
Glenn, you are correct. All that 4 door “coupe” styling, short windows, cock pit front compartment, wide, tall console design crap has eliminated the practical aspects of a sedan.
Manufacturers have turned regular sedans into “personal luxury” coupes rather than practical for most purposes people and cargo movers.
Essentially, the OEMs have turned their own bread and butter products into niche vehicles and people are finding new forms of transport with CUVs and four door pickup trucks.
The manufacturer who recognized this would put that practicality back into whatever next generation sedan they build.
Of course internet buyers would cheer. And the actual buyer would still go for the CUV.
Agreed, the last gen 500/Taurus was more practical than the current one, and perhaps the last of the traditional upright sedan. I’ve been in the current Impala and it certainly doesn’t have that traditional space/comfort feel. Another big car that feels like a small car with a big console, high sills, low roof, and firm suspension. Pickups are the last realm of spacious and upright interiors.
I still think there’s a market for that if it would be done right. But maybe not.
Sadly, while the last-gen Five Hundred/Taurus may have been more practical, it wasn’t until the ’10 redesign that sales picked up.
It’s a shame. Those old Taurii were rather Audi-derivative but they were quite handsome and practical. I liked the Taurus X, too, but even with the ’08 enhancements of both, they weren’t perfect, e.g. no manual shift mode on the transmission, ugly fake wood trim, etc.
A friend rented a ’13 Taurus Limited and I wasn’t impressed. Loved the feature content, quite liked the looks, but the interior was very poorly packaged. Why anyone would choose a new Taurus today over a new Fusion is beyond me.
This iteration Impala was a flop. That’s why they mixed the sales of the “old” fleet Impala in the sales numbers.
Once the old fleet model went away the sales collapsed.
As for roominess, the 2018 Accord is slighter shorter than the 2013-17 Accord but has MORE interior passenger room than this lumpy Impala.
Impala has 3.5″ more front legroom. That’s significant. I have trouble in most every Honda I’ve ever been in, their cockpits are usually cramped. Even in the Odyssey and Pilot, which you’d expect to be roomy.
I hope gm is smart and keeps its large cars even when sales are down now. Gas prices will rise again and people will return to get the best mileage that can. Gm should not abandon the market. Camaro sales are down also and I don’t expect car to be abandoned.
I could see a new impala to share a platform with another car like the Malibu on a stretched platform.
A new reardrive impala could be a solution. This proposed rear drive impala could serve fleet sales like police and a performance nich and still be different enough from the Malibu to attract sales. This is just my theory and wishful thinking.
Nooooo! Though I was never in the market for an Impala, I rented one last month and was impressed by its comfort and roominess. I hope GM brings it back.
On a side note, I saw the Impala’s sexy Swedish cousin, the 2010-2011 SAAB 9-5, on the road today. Talk about a car that deserved to do better.
It’s not that the Impala isn’t a fine contemporary car, it’s that the people who bought full size sedans sought qualities that are not in much evidence today. That’s the point Dweezil and I were making, I rent Impalas and Fusions all the time, they are great. But, I OWN a 2008 Town Car, for the type of driving I do, the TCs particular qualities are more important to me and I can’t get them in any (affordable) contemporary car.
The Ford camp will do this with the current Taurus, and oddly, it was foreshadowed when they brought the Continental out on a stretched Fusion platform, not the Taurus platform. We should have seen it coming. The big sedan does not sell enough to make it economically feasible to have its own platform. With modular architecture underpinning most makers entire lines, it make sense to stretch out a platform to make a sedan that otherwise would never recoup development costs. RIP large sedans. You will be missed. But only by a very, very few buyers.
I feel most “sedans” have lost their way in life.
It used to be that a sedan was “roomy” for 4 to 5 adults. Has anyone gotten into a “modern” sedan lately??? The fastback styling leaves no headroom in the back seat. The front is no better because of the slope of the windshield, lowered roof, and high belt line. You crane your need to see out of the windows!!
I had to “climb into” the passenger seat of a friend’s Lexus. After a year, he traded it in for a Lexus SUV in order to save his back. Why do you think the new Continental is doing so well; because its a true three box design, not one big tear drop of sheet metal.
Little help with the math please. If 31,000 Impalas were sold in the first six months of 2017, and each dealership only sold three cars in that time frame i.e.: “the average Chevy dealer has a customer for one every two months”, then there would have to be over 10,000 Chevrolet dealerships.
Six years ago (2011) Autotrader reported that Chevrolet had about 3,084 dealerships (latest statistic that I can find) so something doesn’t add up. At 3,084 dealerships, sales would be closer (not exact) to one Impala every other week.
It was explained above already, look through the comments. The math works if only retail sales are counted but not fleet ones. Scroll up…